If you're going to do yourself in, this is the way to explain it

[Onkel Neal]

Martin Manley: My Life and Death
Born 8-15-53, Died 8-15-13 , Age 60

http://www.businessinsider.com/ex-sports-writer-kills-himself-and-leaves-massive-website-explaining-why-2013-8

http://www.zeroshare.info/

So, to think he just plotted all this down just to off himself...

I finally decided the best way to do it would be at 5AM on August 15, 2013 at the far southeast end of the parking lot at the Overland Park Police Station. If everything worked out right – and I’m sure it did, I called 911 at 5AM. I told them “I want to report a suicide at the south end of the parking lot of the Overland Park Police Station at 123rd and Metcalf. Bang.”

Edit, ok, obviously he was really depressed. sad.

[Armistead]

I pretty much agree with much of what he wrote, who wants to die having their arse wiped, deal with the economic collapse, etc. The fact is, I hate humanity, so if it all goes to hell, I want to be here to witness it.

Truth is, the guy was a coward, you can find many reasons to die, better to find a reason to live.

[CaptainHaplo]

I will quote part of the Declaration of Independence...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It was his Life, and he choose to do with it what he would. In this case, end it on his terms. It was his right to do so - and I can only say that provided his actions in emailing/mailing letters, etc were true and accurate, he did a rather responsible job of it.

[Feuer Frei!]

Yea cool. Suicide is so fashionable.

I like how on the bottom of the page linked to zeroshare it says: in case this is of help to anyone..and then link.

Unless i missed the point or irony of that, his accounts of his suicide and life aren't helpful at all to someone considering suicide.
Garbage.

In fact all it does is advertise that if you can't man up and handle crap in your life like so many others have to, including me every single day of our lives, and that you have come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with the crap is to off yourself, well, pretty darn sad really.

Is there a flip side to this? Of course.

EDIT: The other thing that irritates me about this is why the hell tell me about it? (his account)
You wanna off yourself, go ahead.
You can't handle life? Go ahead.
Show pony. Attention-seeker.

[Jimbuna]

Very sad :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

Kind of selfish and the resulting aftermath of those in his family left behind apparently did not matter much. Seems like a game to leave GPS coordinates to his claimed fortune. Suicide in a majority of cases involves a individual who is very troubled and often clinically depressed. Somehow I do not see this as the case. I see it as the easy way out. So many with so little carry on into their golden years. Perhaps there was more to his story but we and his family will never know. This is the aftermath.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Very sad :nope:
Indeed.
He should've taken up fishing. Good stress reliever for some. Just put a lure on a hook, throw the line out and hope you get a bite. He should've gotten together with a buddy and gone fishing instead.

[Feuer Frei!]

He should've taken up fishing. Good stress reliever for some. Just put a lure on a hook, throw the line out and hope you get a bite. He should've gotten together with a buddy and gone fishing instead.

Maybe he didn't have a 'buddy'.
A lot of suiciders are loners.

Also, maybe he was like me in respect to fishing.
No patience for it, in turn annoying and gets bored and never fishes again. :haha:

[Skybird]

Where one can assume somebody considers suicide and makes the deicison in a confused, disarranged state of mind due to a pyschological symptom/syndrome or intoxication, intervention can be justified. It may indeed be a mistaken decision then, or a cry for help, what in German is called "appellative suicide", with the real intention to find death having to be put into question.

Problem is psychologists tend to see ALL suicide attempts as cries for help only, as "appellative suicides".

But where somebody makes a calm, reasonable decision while mentally being obviously not handicapped, nobody has the right to judge that person and to hinder it. It is his life, not yours, and his decision, not yours. You have no claims to make for him. He does not owe you obedience to your moral views, you do not possess him.

You must not even judge him. Who are you to judge and make a verdict about the most ultimate and final decision a living being can make? And can you ever be certain to be in knowledge of all the relevant facts and factors that led that individual to that decision? Have you been inside his life, his thinking, his experiencing? Do you know how he get where he is, what made him what he is? You know almost nothing.

Thanathology was a special interest of mine long time ago,and I dealt with people with NDEs, but also with old, dying people a bit, and sometimes with their relatives or friends. I found that often those saying "he is a coward", "she has no right to do this", did so because of narcissistic, selfish reasons. They could not stand that somebody refused what they themselves considered to be worthy, and occasionally somebody even could not stand that the other was evading his desire to control him.

I personally find it "stupid" if people who suffer from some painful disease and know they will die a mean death in the end, think they must hold out as long a possible, ending up with their last months spent in hospital beds, with great pain, boredom, and the perspective of death before their eyes anyway. But hey, that ius my view, and it must not be theirs. I leave them the freedom to suffer as long as they want.

Since some years I know that is a fate that looms in my own future for sure, too. And I have already made according decisions and arrangements myself. You do not win praise or fame by holding out in agony as long as possible, there is nothing to win, nor is it an experience that ennobles you in any way or strengthens you, nor does it matter to you once you are gone - all that MAYBE would be factors to consider if only you'd survive it, but when death bis certain anyway, you win nothing and your suffering means nothing.

I believe in the life that is being enjoyed, not in a life that is being suffered.

Ethically, also there is no aregument against suicide deciisona made in a rational state of mind. He who does so while being old or ill, removes himself from the list of burdens for others. That alone clears any issue that might be raised by some. How should that not be an expression of claiming your right for freedom and free decision making?

I refer to David Hume, Jean Améry, Emile Cioran.

With determination and anger I stand up to everybody denying the right of suicide to somebody due to his personal relgious beliefs. The religious beliefs of a person are that person'S personal problem only, and nobody elses'. Somebody may claim that his deity owns all life and that man has no right to dodge that deity's property right, but that is a belief by the person only who holds that belief. No claim for other people is to be made on its' grounds.

I collided repeatedly with two Christian priests in a hospital where I once made a multi-months practical. There arrogance and hunger for control over people's life was unbearable. Thankfully I had a very humane boss there who covered me when I attacked them, because they wanted to see me getting fired. I later learned a Franciscan monk with whom I even befriended for some years (until his monastery here in the city was shut down) who although no agreeing in full with my views nevertheless hard partial sympathy and tolerated what I said, because he saw the quality of compassion and free will in my argument.

I wonder what became of him, we lost contact. We had some good hours and some really hot discussions - but it always was hot over the matter, not personal, and it never went so far as to leave the grounds of constructive intention. Great guy that was! He really gave me fire.

And a real great and noble man I had the luck to know once, told me this, and it is something like an unwirtten motto in my life: "Mensch-sein? Haltung bewahren, den Blick nicht abwenden."

[Skybird]

I can say without fear of contradiction that since June 11, 2012, I have been much more focused on others than myself. I’ve done many things that I otherwise would not have done solely based upon the fact that I was not going to be around much longer and wouldn’t have many more opportunities. Knowing it was coming to an end helped me focus on what was most important.


^ This. I also know that other people making that decision said that it made them feel more freedom than ever before in their lives. Precious only is what is rare and limited. Preciousness helps you to sort your priorities. Not fearing the limited nature of your time on Earth, sets you free, and makes you walking beyond the borders where usually people would stop to go further. Where there is no lack, man tends to fritter.

[u crank]

It is sad.

I've come around on this subject a lot in recent years. Maybe it's because I'm getting old or maybe it's because of this. I have a brother-in-law that I have known for almost forty years. He has cancer, it has spread into his brain and his time is short. Two months or less. He has a wife, three daughters and six grandchildren. A very close knit family. The quality of his life has gone from a good retirement to this in less than six months. Makes you think. Whatever Walt and his family decided I would support them completely.

On the other hand since I don't know much about this guy, his suicide seems well... I won't say it. By the extent of his website, this was not a decision made in a hurry. I certainly would give him or anyone else the right to do whatever they want. But don't expect me to feel sorry for him. It seems to me that he would have options. Get help, make new friends, do something completely unselfish.

I wonder what my brother-in-law would think?

[WernherVonTrapp]

There's almost always an underlying reason why a person attempts or succeeds at suicide. I say "almost" because I have not investigated, nor been directly/indirectly involved in every suicide that has ever taken place. I can say that, of all the suicides/attempts that I've been involved with directly/indirectly, the investigation always pointed to an underlying cause, sometimes in complete contrast to any notes left behind by the victim.
I won't inject my personal belief into the matter but I will say, prudence warrants that, when eternity may be at stake (whether one believes in one or not), you had better be careful in considering what fate you could be subjecting yourself to. This is not to judge anyone who is suicidal or anyone's reply in this thread.

@Feuer Frei!
True, he may or may not have. I know of suicides who had more families and friends whom they were active with, and still killed themselves w/o anyone knowing why (outside of police investigation). There should always be something more constructive to do with one's life than to kill oneself.

[Skybird]

It is sad.

Honestly, I feel no sadness at all in this man's story. I find it... well, refreshing, straight, honest, serious. Maybe it has something to do with an attitude I share with Socrates whom he directly quotes with this snippet:

“Ordinary people seem not to realize that those who really apply themselves in the right way to philosophy are directly, and of their own accord, preparing themselves for dying and death. If this is true, and they have actually been looking forward to death all their lives, it would of course be absurd to be troubled when the thing comes for which they have so long been preparing and looking forward.”
—SOCRATES, PHAEDO

All life is limited, we all struggle to find our "solution" to how to deal with the awareness of our mortality, and nthat everything we love and everyone we know, will die, and we will need to come along with the loss we feel over that, until one day we are confronted with the process of our own leave. In the modern West, many people and our whole culture have turned to actively denying, at least hiding death, we avoid dealing withz it, we presume to stay young forever, and we do a lot of sometimes funny, often silly things to give the i mpression that indeed we are young: young when we are 30, 40, 50, even 60 and 70. To be hinest, I think many peopole make real fools of themselves there. And the motivation driivng them, is panic leading them to active denial.. They try to run from themselves, they want to outrun time, ignoring that time cannot be defeated.

And ucrank, I do not think this man expected anyone to feel sorry for him. ;) I think that was the last thing he was concerned about.

Haltung bewahren, den Blick nicht abwenden. Or to put it in the wonderfully laconic words of some British general: "Of course we could have tried to run away - but why dying tired?"

[Feuer Frei!]

It's all good and well arguing the points of who are we to judge or there must be underlying reasons or what suicide is (cry for help or otherwise).

The thing that really irritates me about this particular case is that the guy wrote up a story about his life and why he killed himself, and published it.

Why?
To justify his decision to take the easy way out?
To me? To his family? The garbage collector? The takeaway stand attendant?
Who?

All the points raised in previous points don't address this question.

People have their own definition of suiciders.
So do i.
But to publish the life and the reason why the suicide was the answer to the fact that life dealt some bad cards and the only answer to the deal was to take the most senseless and gutless way out.

And that absolutely ridiculous sentence at the bottom of one of the links in the first post makes this even more ridiculous in my eyes.

The reasons for publishing this is what needs investigating.

Not how we or psychologists define suicide.

And when the suggestion gets made that when a person makes the decision of suicide in a calm and rational manner and how dare he be judged is difficult to digest.

What has that got to do with the end result?

Suicide can be described in many ways.

But publicising your life, which describes and introduces us, the reader to the second chapter, suicide, and then, having the website at the end suggest if this has helped anyone considering suicide, is laughable and reeks of selfishness, shallowness, and more.

And before we suggest that maybe he wrote all this to aid or to help others who are contemplating suicide, i say this:
how can a guide to giving up on life and taking oneselfs life be of any help to the thousands of poor souls who are contemplating suicide.

Please spare me of the lectures, the definitions, both clinical and otherwise of what suicide means.
It is irrelevant.

EDIT:

And the arrogant way in which some parts are written is ludicrous.



you also owe me. You owe me the time it takes to understand why I did what I did without prejudging. I've done my part. The rest is up to you. If you opt to not read it, then I'm tempted to say "You can't handle the truth!"...

What garbage.

He mentions that he wrote it all up to suggest that it would be useful to studyiers of suicide, or other folks who are in a similar position.

I doubt any of it will be useful.

Footnote: as the reader can probably tell, i am very passionate about this. Maybe too passionate.

[Wolferz]

Wasn't it Jesus who said...
"If thy eye offend thee pluck it out"?

Same thing here for the most part. The idea of being trapped in an aging, withering body that is totally dependent on others until the moment of expiration was offensive to this fellow. I hope he had an escort across the valley that lies between this realm and the next. Being forgiven for killing himself is another problem he'll have to face. Thou shall not kill and all that.

I think we are here to learn compassion. Not only for others but ourselves also.

[Skybird]

Feuer frei, nobody has forced you to read his written stuff. Nobody has forced you to take extensive note of his decision and death. you have been free from first second on to just flip the browser page, et voila. He certainly wrote that site for people only who took interest in what he wanted to say. But he did not trick anybody not interested into it.

If you do not feel like wanting to know a bit about how he argued over his decision - then do not read it. ;) Simple. I personally am not personally interested in the man, I did not know him, his death means nothing to me, and I feel no sadness over it - how could I feel sad about a loss that I do not perceive as a loss...? But I noted that some of his reasoning made me smile and made me feel good, and that I agree with some of it. I think that is what he wanted to achieve, and indirectly he even admits that, somewhere.

There is this nice story by Ray Bradbury where an Irish fella dies who had collected a huge amount of wine or whisky, I forgot what it was. To the disbelief of the village community he left behind a last will saying that all his liquid treasures should be spilled over his coffin, into his grave. The people exactly did that. They lined up at the open grave, dropped their pants, drank bottle for bottle and pissed at the same time into the grave, laughing. That way, the funeral became an event where everybody was feeling good and had a good time, and it was to be remembered for many years to come. I would like to leave behind a last will like that myself one day! :yeah:

[Feuer Frei!]

Feuer frei, nobody has forced you to read his written stuff. Nobody has forced you to take extensive note of his decision and death. you have been free from first second on to just flip the browser page, et voila. He certainly wrote that site for people only who took interest in what he wanted to say. But he did not trick anybody not interested into it.

If you do not feel like wanting to know a bit about how he argued over his decision - then do not read it. ;) Simple.

Of course. That goes without saying.

However, to enter into discussion about something, you have to, fortunately or unfortunately, depends which way you look at it, read some of the subject matter :)

And, a miracle may occur once in a while where one's horizon of knowledge gets broader. :yep:

As for your story about the whiskey and dropping of pants at the funeral, well, you see there's nothing wrong with that is there.

No publicising, no glossy sheen polish, just a will and a happy time had by all.

[u crank]

And u crank, I do not think this man expected anyone to feel sorry for him. ;) I think that was the last thing he was concerned about.

Possibly, but I think he wanted more attention than he or anyone else deserves. He seemed very concerned about being forgotten. The amount of time he spent planing this and making a web site about it could have been better used. Surely he had things he could share, teach and help others in his chosen career or other life skills.

I don't feel sorry that he died. Whether he likes it or not, I feel sorry that he wasted the rest of his life.

[Armistead]

I look at my step-mom. She's about 82, went through a serious bout of cancer during her late 60s. She wears a diaper, uses a walker, etc. My pop has been having issues and said this to her.

"What are we going to do when I have to use a walker"

She replied

"We'll race"

Reading between the lines, this guy is full of self pity. Instead of making positive change, he gave into pity.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Reading between the lines, this guy is full of self pity. Instead of making positive change, he gave into pity.
I thought I was the only one who read evidence of that. Leaving GPS coordinates to a "Gold Fortune" that doesn't exist isn't commensurate of rational thought. Neither is some of the other info in the article or his writings.
Before his death, Manley created a massive website that attempts to explain why he committed suicide. It also involves a rant about 9/11 conspiracy theorists...

"No, I wasn't fully satisfied with my life, but I was fully satisfied with my death!"

Nevertheless, I am saddened by his death.

[Platapus]

It is clear that this gentleman thought long and carefully about his decision. I can respect him for that.

I am glad that, unlike some, he did not decide to take anyone else with him.

I hope he found the peace he was looking for.

[Wolferz]

by: WernherVonTrapp...
Nevertheless, I am saddened by his death.


As am I. But, I'm more concerned with his impending second death. That part is just morose to think of.
As elders who have passed beyond the working stage of life, it is our job now to teach the young. You can't pass on your knowledge if you selfishly and prematurely take it with you.
To me, that's the saddest thing of all.

[u crank]

I am glad that, unlike some, he did not decide to take anyone else with him.

Good point.

[Skybird]

Could it be he created this website with those people who knew him on his mind, for allowing them to maybe get a glimpse of his reasons after the first shock has been swallowed when they got the notice? I also see a good amount of humor there, especially the thing with the gold treasure and GPS coordinates.

And his reaosning on that he does not want to witness certain future events that willbecome very nasty for sure, can be lef tuncommented. I see some of that like him myself, and would be all to happy if I can just leave the stage short before the economy really has the sky falling. I am also living alone and have no kids myself. Would I want to live alone, feeling lonely maybe, getting older and older, more and more depending, physically degrading, intellectually collapsing, maybe missing the day when I have lost last control over my will, my body, turning into a corpus that rots while still moving by reflxes?

Spending some time in a gerontopsychiatric station really can make you think, I tell you. The price for staying alive can become horribly high when you are past a certain age, and become ill. Horribly high for yourself. Horribly for your next of kin. And - last, but not least - financially horribly costly for society. Also, for myself it is clear that I do not want to turn into a senile old baby that has a rubber ball being rolled to it over the floor and that takes three minutes to roll it back (or not) and then has had the moment of the day over that. People who think it is worth to live for that, well, do it, I don't stop you. But neither would I want to see my parents in a state like that, nor would I wait until I turned into that myself. One does not like to talk about it, but high age also can come at the cost of loss of human dignity.

There is an essay by David Hume, "On Suicide". I recommend to read it.

[Stealhead]

I think that there is too much bogus stress handed out in the modern world to be honest.It seems like it is the goal of some people just make other people feel like dirt and I guess it works on some people.

People get so caught in modern BS they do not realize that generally speaking their life is not so bad.

The other thing is people do not know how to unwind any more they are always connected to what stresses them.

I always liked the John Lennon song Watching the Wheels to me that song is about being content with your life.

[Cybermat47]

The fact is, I hate humanity,

So you hate Neal, Steve, Frau, Feuer Frei, yourself, and everyone who has ever lived including your own mother and father.

There goes my respect for you :down:

[Feuer Frei!]

...So you hate Feuer Frei...

Hey, leave me out of it :haha:

[Cybermat47]

Hey, leave me out of it :haha:

Sorry, your name just popped into my head :)

[Jimbuna]

Sorry, your name just popped into my head :)

And your respect for him made way so there was sufficient space? :hmm2:

[Red October1984]

So you hate Neal, Steve, Frau, Feuer Frei, yourself, and everyone who has ever lived including your own mother and father.

There goes my respect for you :down:

I don't hate humanity....I just lose faith in it sometimes.

Most often at my own stupid stupid age group. (No offense Cybermat47 :O: You seem to be alright.)

This is why:

#I #Got #So #Much #Swag #YOLO #forrrrealllll

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4dhpqezHT1r0fyyeo1_500.jpg

http://s8.favim.com/orig/72/cute-fashion-girl-swag-Favim.com-683856.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzguhoones1qk1qego1_500.gif

I can see why some people lose faith/hope in humanity...or start to hate it.

Because look at this....this is our future. :-?

[Betonov]

Because look at this....this is our future. :-?

Half of them are going to get a roundhouse kick from reality when they reach their twenties and realise that ironed shirts and waist high trousers will get you the means of living. Work, not swag.
A quarter of them will get that kick near their thirties.
The other quarter will simply die or slide into that group that says yolo before covering themselves with newspaper for the night.


Kids these days are just let to be kids for too long.

[Red October1984]

Half of them are going to get a roundhouse kick from reality when they reach their twenties and realise that ironed shirts and waist high trousers will get you the means of living. Work, not swag.
A quarter of them will get that kick near their thirties.
The other quarter will simply die or slide into that group that says yolo before covering themselves with newspaper for the night.


Kids these days are just let to be kids for too long.

+100 Trillion

SWAG doesn't pay bills!

It might sound horrible...but I think there needs to be a kind of Swag Holocaust. Natural Selection needs to hit these people like a brick wall.

No more Justin Bieber, no more racist rap music, no more saggy pants, no more flat bill hats...

NO MORE SWAG. :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

So you hate Neal, Steve, Frau, Feuer Frei, yourself, and everyone who has ever lived including your own mother and father.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/A2DerRUCQAEiHSS_zpsc760d317.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/SailorSteve/media/A2DerRUCQAEiHSS_zpsc760d317.jpg.html)

[Armistead]

+100 Trillion

SWAG doesn't pay bills!

It might sound horrible...but I think there needs to be a kind of Swag Holocaust. Natural Selection needs to hit these people like a brick wall.

No more Justin Bieber, no more racist rap music, no more saggy pants, no more flat bill hats...

NO MORE SWAG. :yeah:

Blame it on technology. I think cops like saggy pants, makes the thugs easier to catch.

I read somewhere the average child stays home until about age 23. Heck, when we were kids we got out quick, if it meant living in utter poverty. People think they have it so bad today because they feel entitled, that life should be handed to them.

[Platapus]

I seriously fear for the future of our country with this new generation.:yep:

Funny, my father said the same thing.

And his father the same thing.

And his father.

Which only proves the undeniable truth. The next generation will always be the downfall of our country.....Funny that we always seem to survive though. :hmmm:

My parents were wrong. My generation was not that bad, but this new generation!!:o

I wonder if my father told his father the same thing? :D

[WernherVonTrapp]

Blame it on technology. I think cops like saggy pants, makes the thugs easier to catch.

I read somewhere the average child stays home until about age 23. Heck, when we were kids we got out quick, if it meant living in utter poverty. People think they have it so bad today because they feel entitled, that life should be handed to them.
Actually, if I recall correctly, the sagging, drooping, pants is a fashion trend that started with inmates in the jail and prison systems.:O:

And I was out of my house, working full time with my own apartment at 20 years old.:yep:

[Betonov]

I'm 27 and still live with my parents.
Not a big deal, it's a big rural house, I pull my weight in chores and costs, employed and not dependent on anyone.
But my recent raise does give an option to rent a small apartment nearby.
Enough to be on my own but still be close to my garden and dog :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

I'm 27 and still live with my parents.
Not a big deal, it's a big rural house, I pull my weight in chores and costs, employed and not dependent on anyone.
But my recent raise does give an option to rent a small apartment nearby.
Enough to be on my own but still be close to my garden and dog :hmmm:

Why pay rent? Your only paying the property owners bills.

If I had the choice I'd be staying with my parents and saving to own something of my own in the future.

[Betonov]

Economic wise I'd be better off staying where I am until I manage to get a woman that will split costs in about 200-400 years.
A rent with costs on a small apartment is about €300 for my area, a quarter of my pay.

A price I'll gladly pay for the privacy my own place gives me.

[Jimbuna]

Economic wise I'd be better off staying where I am until I manage to get a woman that will split costs in about 200-400 years.
A rent with costs on a small apartment is about €300 for my area, a quarter of my pay.

A price I'll gladly pay for the privacy my own place gives me.

Makes sense if that's how you feel :yep:

[Betonov]

Living with parents fattens your purse, but dulls independent personal development.

[u crank]

Living with parents fattens your purse, but dulls independent personal development.

Please explain this to my daughter. :O:

[Jimbuna]

Please explain this to my daughter. :O:

Mine too...the boy has flown the nest but the daughter has yet to develop anything even remotely resembling wings :)

[u crank]

Mine too...the boy has flown the nest but the daughter has yet to develop anything even remotely resembling wings :)

Mine leaves but then returns. Don't ask. The upside is we get to see a lot of our only grandchild.:sunny:

[Jimbuna]

Mine leaves but then returns. Don't ask. The upside is we get to see a lot of our only grandchild.:sunny:

I'm yet to become a grandparent but I agree...that would be a big positive :sunny:

[Platapus]

Mine leaves but then returns. Don't ask. The upside is we get to see a lot of our only grandchild.:sunny:
Believe me, you don't have to explain Boomerangs to me. Can't say "been there" as I still is. :down::stare:

[u crank]

Believe me, you don't have to explain Boomerangs to me. Can't say "been there" as I still is. :down::stare:

:haha:

Parents. I guess that's what we're here for.:hmmm:

[Platapus]

:haha:

Parents. I guess that's what we're here for.:hmmm:

I just pay the bills. That's my role in all of this. :nope:

[u crank]

I just pay the bills. That's my role in all of this. :nope:

You're getting off fairly easily then. :yep: