Snub for WWI VC Hero

[Jimbuna]

Governmental stupidity and downright disgraceful :nope:


A national hero fighter pilot who was the first person to shoot down a Zeppelin will be left off a roll call of First World War Victoria Cross heroes because he was born in India.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2394716/WWI-Fighter-pilot-Reginald-Warneford-ignored-Victoria-Cross-commemoration.html

[Herr-Berbunch]

Just so wrong. :nope:

[soopaman2]

:nope:

(expletive deleted)

:down:

(Even worse expletive deleted)

:/\\!!

What is wrong with people?

(Expletive deleted) government bean counters and pencil pushers, with no real life experience, should have their testicles removed with a rusty fork. (forgot to delete that expletive)

Sorry that brown skin offends you so, I thought Europe was leaps and bounds ahead of us Americans with racism?

[Cybermat47]

Just because he was born in India? WTF?!

Although most frontline pilots regarded him as a bit of a joke. They were being shot at by experienced pilots in superior machines everyday, and then some guy gets a VC for shooting down a slow, large and pretty much defenceless glorified balloon larger than a manor! Then the British High Command had the bright idea of sending him out to the front, giving him command of the first Bristol Fighter sortie, and to set him up against the Red Baron! Sure enough, he met Jasta 11... he and his gunner spent the rest of the war as POWs.

But that doesn't excuse what the Government is doing :nope:

EDIT: Oops, the guy I was thinking of was the first to down a zeppelin over British soil. The guy born in India was a frontline pilot, definitely deserving of his VC... and he died in 1915.

R.I.P.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

This is messed up on so many levels.:nope: Why should it matter if the man is from India, and if this is the case what of the Anzac and Canadian troops who fought for the UK?

[soopaman2]

Sorry to respond again so close to my last post, but he served his country in the same capacity as everyone else.

Why can his achievments not be honored the same way?

I guess the Indians owning you for independance is still a hot button issue for you? Not being an ass to anyone here, but that is what it looks like to me.

Wake up, your empire is over, honor those who fought in your name!

Americans got the Tuskeegee airmen, people we crapped on, at least we acknowledge them now....Wake up...

No offense meant, just kinda disgusted by the rascism.

[Tribesman]

Just because he was born in India? WTF?!

Yep he was an anglo-indian not British, just like Spike Milligan, George Orwell or Cliff Richard

What is wrong with this?
British nationals get their memorial and Commonwealth citizens get theirs.
Nothing really wrong with it as far as I can see.
Of the 12 VC holders he is buried among 3 are not British nationals.
What is "downright disgraceful" is that one of the British VC holders in that place died in the workhouse, was dumped in a common grave and still doesn't even have a headstone.

I suppose it does get complicated though.
Hutcheson fought with the Canadians, he Was American so he doesn't get on the British list for his VC
Holmes fought with the Canadians and was a Canadian so he doesn't either.
Hobson fought with the Canadians but was from London so he gets on the British list.

Sorry that brown skin offends you so, I thought Europe was leaps and bounds ahead of us Americans with racism?
Hate to ruin your rant, but what does brown skin have to do with any of this soopa?

Sorry to respond again so close to my last post, but he served his country in the same capacity as everyone else.

Which country soopa?


I guess the Indians owning you for independance is still a hot button issue for you? Not being an ass to anyone here, but that is what it looks like to me.

Wake up, your empire is over, honor those who fought in your name!

Americans got the Tuskeegee airmen, people we crapped on, at least we acknowledge them now....Wake up...

No offense meant, just kinda disgusted by the rascism.

Way off mark again soopa, its about citizenship, nothing more.
If he had brown skin and was born in Birmingham he would be on it.

[soopaman2]

So nooo rascism played a part in this?

OK I may be off base with brown skin as the reason, but rascism is still the reason.

White island born men, so much more superior.

Seems they crapped on Canadians too.

(any Canadian I know identifies more with Britain, than America) *not including Quebecois* They hate everyone.

Yeah rascism, I was right.

Like I said, you are supposed to be leaps and bounds ahead of us.

Cultural reason?

Mad about losing India?



As a distraction, Kate the Duchess, had a baby!

Lil Georgie!

Ignore everything else.

Citizenship...Makes it ok. I suppose, if you say so.

You can only recieve accolades defending your nation if you are born on island, if you were subjugated or enslaved by the British empire,, you are nothing more than a slave subject, and have zero rights to anything.

Great philosophy.

[Tribesman]

This is messed up on so many levels.:nope: Why should it matter if the man is from India, and if this is the case what of the Anzac and Canadian troops who fought for the UK?

See above for the Canadian examples, then do the same for Australia New Zealand Newfoundland and any other country.

[Tribesman]

So nooo rascism played a part in this?

OK I may be off base with brown skin as the reason, but rascism is still the reason.

White island born men, so much more superior.

Yeah rascism, I was right.

Like I said, you are supposed to be leaps and bounds ahead of us.

Cultural reason?

What a culture.

No, you are completely wrong, you started out very wrong and are just getting worse
If it was a memorial to people born in Glasgow it would only have people born in Glasgow on it.

[u crank]

(any Canadian I know identifies more with Britain, than America) *not including Quebecois* They hate everyone.

How many Canadians do you know? ^None of that is true.

[soopaman2]

In our war memorials, no one is excluded.

Have fun though.

[soopaman2]

How many Canadians do you know? ^None of that is true.


What do you want names? Prove I do not know Canadians you pigeon?
What you say is not true.

Accuser should provide evidence, not just a spewing.

[Tribesman]

I see you edited Soopa, so you have now just made your hole of "completely wrong" just a little deeper for yourself.
You really should stop and think instead of just digging yourself deeper.

[AVGWarhawk]

Tribesman:
What is "downright disgraceful" is that one of the British VC holders in that place died in the workhouse, was dumped in a common grave and still doesn't even have a headstone.


Agreed in total.

[u crank]

What do you want names? Prove I do not know Canadians you pigeon?
What you say is not true.

Accuser should provide evidence, not just a spewing.

Sorry to rub you the wrong way pal, but I didn't ask for names, just a number. I'm pretty sure I know more Canadians and Quebecers than you do. None of them feel that way. Last time I checked you were an American. Who are you to speak for me?

[soopaman2]

I see you edited Soopa, so you have now just made your hole of "completely wrong" just a little deeper for yourself.
You really should stop and think instead of just digging yourself deeper.


I edited spelling, not context, now prove me wrong.


You cannot, can you, just say I edited, and rely on your much higher popularity on this board to make me look wrong.

LOL dude, that Indian man is a victim of Britian, when he should be a hero. Shame shame shame on you.

I edited spelling on this too, use it against me and not argue a valid point on why this is right.

[Tribesman]

I edited spelling, not context, now prove me wrong.

The fact that you have to lie about it is all the proof I need.
What is that old line about self swindlers?
Man is but a fool but the greatest fool of all is he that tells lies to himself and maintains that he is truthful.

You cannot, can you, just say I edited, and rely on your much higher popularity on this board to make me look wrong.

:har::har::har::har::har::har: popularity?????:har::har::har::har::har::har:

LOL dude, that Indian man is a victim of Britian, when he should be a hero. Shame shame shame on you.


Geography not your strong point either then?
Your line makes no sense.

[soopaman2]

The fact that you have to lie about it is all the proof I need.
What is that old line about self swindlers?
Man is but a fool but the greatest fool of all is he that tells lies to himself and maintains that he is truthful.


:har::har::har::har::har::har: popularity?????:har::har::har::har::har::har:


Geography not your strong point either then?
Your line makes no sense.

What lie?
I changed nothing of my messages conveyance, prove me wrong or quiet yourself.

Any proof, or using your higher rep than me on this board as a tool against me in popular opinion.

You got no proof. Just spouting crap.

I promised I wouldn't do this, but I refuse to be lied on, I speak my mind, and do not care what people think. I am coming off 2 warning a few weeks ago on the same thread, I got no fear speaking my mind.

You love to lie like a dog though, quote my original post, I so called changed, go ahead, you cannot, you lost in facts and have to revert to crap.

Edit: I say what I say, and can care less if I am banned or hated, get that through your head before you lie on me.

[Sailor Steve]

Calling each other liars serves no purpose. Please stop.

Soopaman, I think what Tribesman is trying to say is that the man is not on the rolls, not because of his race or color, but because of his nationality. The "home" rolls in this case may not include "foreigners", but they have their own rolls and listings. If Canadian VC winners are also not on this roll, then racism has nothing to do with it.

Also, if you look at the picture in the article you'll see that the guy is as white as white can be.

On the other hand, I agree that he should be included. But I'm not British, so by the standards of some here my opinion is worth nothing.

[soopaman2]

K Steve.
Sorry and thanks.

I just find it wrong, I cannot cite British law or tradition, but as a human being it is wrong to me.

Sorry Tribesman, was not attacking you, simply debating you, I felt attacked so I went on the offensive, and came on hard.. I kinda am a hothead.

Peace Tribesman?:salute:

[Tribesman]

What lie?

Your lie.

I changed nothing of my messages conveyance, prove me wrong or quiet yourself.


So you are claiming you didn't add a passage?

using your higher rep than me on this board as a tool against me in popular opinion.
Higher rep, bloody hell your rep must really be bottom of the pit then:har:



You love to lie like a dog though
Provide a single example from anywhere on the forum:know:

quote my original post
I did.


you lost in facts and have to revert to crap.
soopa, your whole problem in this topic is that you are devoid of facts and keep digging your hole deeper instead of addressing your errors.

[soopaman2]

Guess not.. On it goes.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

See above for the Canadian examples, then do the same for Australia New Zealand Newfoundland and any other country. Yep I just saw that.

@ Soopaman, here's a story of racism from WW1 that's rarely spoken of. Its of the American 92nd Division, all black, and all of its men were draftees. When the massive Meuse-Argonne Offensive was about to start, the 92nd was placed in a gap between the French army and the 77th Division (The Lost Battalion). It might be an overstatement to say the 92nd was setup to fail, but they were. The 92nd had been moved 100+ miles on flatcars in the pouring rain, the officers had no time to do any scouting or familiarize themselves with the area, their artillery batteries where sent to support other units, they didn't receive grenade launchers, or flare guns, and where even given the wrong wire cutters. Morale went to nothing, orders were confused, contradictory, or incomplete. The artillery support promised by the French wasn't delivered. In the end the 92nd failed in its mission which was to liaison with the 77th Division. Detractors would cite the "failed" 92nd division as proof the black man were unfit to serve in combat, through World War 2, and even a while after, President Truman desegregated the US Armed Forces in 1948. And to think our own US Army did that.

As for racism itself in regards to the OP, there's none that I can really see.

[Tribesman]

Peace Tribesman?:salute:
No worries Soopa.
I did think the 3 Canadian examples were enough of an explaination about the real story, the Glasgow one should have been sufficient too.
That is why I said stop and think, after all it was a daily Mail article to begin the topic.

[Tribesman]

Also, if you look at the picture in the article you'll see that the guy is as white as white can be.

Like the 3 anglo Indians I mentioned earlier.
Spike Milligan ended up with Irish citizenship and was only in receipt of an honourary knighthood because he wasn't a British citizen so wasn't eligible for a full knighthood.

[Sailor Steve]

K I just find it wrong, I cannot cite British law or tradition, but as a human being it is wrong to me.
We are in agreement there. :sunny:

[soopaman2]

Yep I just saw that.

@ Soopaman, here's a story of racism from WW1 that's rarely spoken of. Its of the American 92nd Division, all black, and all of its men were draftees. When the massive Meuse-Argonne Offensive was about to start, the 92nd was placed in a gap between the French army and the 77th Division (The Lost Battalion). It might be an overstatement to say the 92nd was setup to fail, but they were. The 92nd had been moved 100+ miles on flatcars in the pouring rain, the officers had no time to do any scouting or familiarize themselves with the area, their artillery batteries where sent to support other units, they didn't receive grenade launchers, or flare guns, and where even given the wrong wire cutters. Morale went to nothing, orders were confused, contradictory, or incomplete. The artillery support promised by the French wasn't delivered. In the end the 92nd failed in its mission which was to liaison with the 77th Division. Detractors would cite the "failed" 92nd division as proof the black man were unfit to serve in combat, through World War 2, and even a while after, President Truman desegregated the US Armed Forces in 1948. And to think our own US Army did that.

As for racism itself in regards to the OP, there's none that I can really see.


Man I can go on a tirade on what America did to the blacks. We really messed up.

I was wrong with skin tone rascism, but right on nationality rascism.

Even America acknowledged the Navajo code talkers, and the Tuskeegee airmen. why can't they honor this man? He was a member of the commonwealth and fought for the people of the commonwealth, why can he not share equal; accolades?

My point.

Steve kinda helped me get your point, and I am sorry Tribesman. He was denied based on law, but it rubs me wrong.

This just seems wrong to me, and my passion took over.

Peace :salute:

[Wolferz]

Tribesman and Soopa sittin in a tree.
K I S S I.... oh, wait, they're beating the snot out of each other.:huh:

[soopaman2]

Tribesman and Soopa sittin in a tree.
K I S S I.... oh, wait, they're beating the snot out of each other.:huh:

Me and Tribesman are ok! No smooching, Besides you all enjoyed our exchange.!:O:

Maybe we can get our girls to make out and have a Caligula type orgy, but barring that I am sure the entertainment is done there.:D

Tribesman is a good egg.

[Jimbuna]

I'm pleased the issue is resolved....I started the thread but didn't feel it right I got involved.

In hindsight perhaps I should have pointed everyone to the fifth paragraph in the article:


Despite the accolade, his name will not appear on commemorative stone slabs to be laid next year because the government ruled that only servicemen and women born in Britain are eligible.


That is why I gave careful consideration before posting:


Governmental stupidity and downright disgraceful


This has never had anything to do with racism but more a case of pen pushers in some London office making up rules that can initially appear to be divisive and disrespectful to those who fought in that terrible conflict.

[AVGWarhawk]

Buna=trouble maker. :O:

[Wolferz]

By Soopaman:
Tribesman is a good egg.


So, the Snappahead comment was purely a term of endearment? :03::D

No Tribesman, he didn't call you a snappahead.

As for the topic... The crown can do as it sees fit. That's what governments do best. They are frequently wrong but, what are you gonna do?

Still, it's good to see you boys kiss and make up.:/\\k:

[AVGWarhawk]

Group hug.

[Jimbuna]

Buna=trouble maker. :O:


http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img88/595/peureux02bh4vx2.gif

http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img524/1727/richardvt8.gif

[Jimbuna]

Group hug.

http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/grouphug5.gif

[soopaman2]

You are beyond huggable Jim.

Be happy I am only hugging you, you should see what I want to do to Steve!:03:

Sicko,...

Steve gets a firm pat on the shoulder and a smile, put your junk away boys!:har:

[AVGWarhawk]

http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/grouphug5.gif

Hey, who just pinched my.....

[Stealhead]

:nope:
Sorry that brown skin offends you so, I thought Europe was leaps and bounds ahead of us Americans with racism?


He was not a Hindu he was a white Brit born in India.

They are doing this based on where he was born not his race.It is still stupid.

EDIT:Oh sorry I missed that this has gone on for three pages i though it was only a one page thread until I posted.

Anyway I wonder if you where born on a leap year are you not considered a citizen of the U.K. maybe there is a chaps born on leap years that earned the VC list as well.

[Wolferz]

Let go of me arse ya pervs.:O:

[Jimbuna]

Let go of me arse ya pervs.:O:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2298/hirsch07pr71.gif

[Wolferz]

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2298/hirsch07pr71.gif

Blech! Moose spit!

Wait, that ain't a Moose! Sorry, not into Deer jerky either.

[AVGWarhawk]

He was not a Hindu he was a white Brit born in India.

They are doing this based on where he was born not his race.It is still stupid.

EDIT:Oh sorry I missed that this has gone on for three pages i though it was only a one page thread until I posted.

Anyway I wonder if you where born on a leap year are you not considered a citizen of the U.K. maybe there is a chaps born on leap years that earned the VC list as well.

Please keep up with the rest of the class. :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

Steve gets a firm pat on the shoulder and a smile, put your junk away boys!:har:
Steve would prefer a firm pat on the head and a game of fetch. :D

[Wolferz]

If I didn't get my VC...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/vsswimsuit040_2.jpg

I'd be pissed too.:03::O:

Well, at least this will make Dowly happy.

[soopaman2]

If I didn't get my VC...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/vsswimsuit040_2.jpg

I'd be pissed too.:03::O:

Well, at least this will make Dowly happy.

Oh my, now that is what I call a thread breaker.

Is that Miranda Kerr?

[Wolferz]

Is that Miranda Kerr?


I dunno. I just like her Victorias Secret cross.:up:

Now where did I put my scissors?

[Aktungbby]

Ahh such kneejerk responses: Leftenant William Leefe Robinson, later captain, was also born at Tollidetta, South Goory India, the youngest of seven to a well to do coffee plantation owner. Not of mixed race, he joined an English regiment after his education in England and transferred to the Royal Air Corps early on. On 2SEP1916, He also immortalized himself in his BE2c by shooting down the first Zeppelin over England to the great din of ringing bells as the glowing fireball descended to the ground. His receiving the Victoria Cross from the King at Windsor was a major paparazzi media event in as much as the King took a great interest in the heroic event over English soil. Subsequently wounded in action in combat and a POW, captain Robinson returned weakened only to die in 1918 from influenza at his sister's (Baroness Heyking) home in England. His passing elicited great attention at the time. A monument was erected in his honor at East Ridgeway in 1986. His collection of medals was eventually sold at auction for 99,000 pounds by his niece in 1988 for the Children's Benefit for Leukemia Fund. Lord Ashcroft, author of 'Victoria Cross Heroes' presently has it among 140 others including that of Lt Chard of Roark's Drift fame (movie Zulu with Michael Caine). I will add that tome, with a forward by HRH Prince Charles, and its CD to my library ASAP. It's a relief to note on second glance, that the medals are kept in a permanent trust, and the captain is not unnoticed after all, but has his own monument. I marvel the slight to Sub-LT Reginald Warneford who downed his Zep over Ghent Belgium...

[Jimbuna]

If I didn't get my VC...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/vsswimsuit040_2.jpg

I'd be pissed too.:03::O:

Well, at least this will make Dowly happy.

Go stand in the corner...poor taste imo.

[Jimbuna]

Ahh such kneejerk responses: Leftenant William Leefe Robinson, later captain, was born at Tollidetta, South Goory India, the youngest of seven to a well to do coffee plantation owner. Not of mixed race, he joined an English regiment after his education in England and transferred to the Royal Air Corps early on. On 2SEP1916, He immortalized himself in his BE2c by shooting down the first Zeppelin over England to the great din of ringing bells as the glowing fireball descended to the ground. His receiving the Victoria Cross from the King at Windsor was a major paparazzi media event in as much as the King took a great interest in the heroic event over English soil.. Subsequently wounded in action in combat and a POW, captain Robinson returned weakened only to die in 1918 from influenza at his sister's home in England. His passing elicited great attention at the time. A monument was erected in his honor at East Ridgeway in 1986. His collection of medals was eventually sold at auction for 99,000 pounds by his niece in 1988 for the Children's Benefit for Leukemia Fund. Lord Ashcroft, author of 'Victoria Cross Heroes' presently has it among 140 others including that of Lt Chard of Roark's Drift fame (movie Zulu with Michael Caine). I will add that tome, with a forward by HRH Prince Charles, and its CD to my library ASAP. It's a relief to note on second glance, that the medals are kept in a permanent trust, and the captain is not unnoticed after all, but has his own monument.:arrgh!:

Is this in addition to the VC recipient in the OT?

[Aktungbby]

Absolutely! the outrage is even more egregious? two zeppelins/two VC's/ and two Indian-born officers one a sub Lt and the other a captain. Have literally emailed author Lord Ashcroft on the issue to see if the obvious blot on the British escutcheon can be ameliorated. At the time, both were lionized as Zeppelins were the terror weapons of the day and their funerals from premature demises,a plane crash and influenza, were well attended. As a POW, literally shot down by Richthofen's squadron-mate, Robinson, always trying to escape, was as well known to his captors as in England, and singled out for harsh treatment which further detracted from his health. He returned to England and died 31DEC1918. No mention of his gunner is found. Warneford does at least have a considerable funeral monument depicting the Zeppelin downing and was also a recipient of the French Legion d' Honor. Hope this makes your day better.:arrgh!:

[Wolferz]

Go stand in the corner...poor taste imo.


Yes sir. Profuse apologies.:oops:

[Jimbuna]

Yes sir. Profuse apologies.:oops:

Cheers :cool:

[Wolferz]

Cheers :cool:

Can I take my nose out of this circle now? My calves are burnin.:wah: