CTD while playing SH3

[conus00]

I just finally got back to playing SHIII and I am encountering very annoying random CTDs. I know this horse has been beaten to death and, trust me, I HAVE searched... :(

My problem is very specific, and, frankly, very odd...
I really believe that it is, somehow, connected to compatibility/playability of SHIII under Windows 7.
Before you start asking questions I would like to make few things clear:
-I have FRESH installations of both SHIII and GWX3
-I didn't install in default directory (all my games are in D:\Games\blah blah)
-I cleaned registry before installation and followed the instructions to the letter

Now here are my reasons why I do believe that the Win7 is the culprit:
I have identical PC configuration as I had before, I'm running identical MODs in identical order as before. The ONLY thing which changed was moving from Windows XP Professional to Win7 Ultimate.

The game was running flawlessly under XPs and I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of to make it run under Win7. Multiple re-installations, trying to run sh3.exe under different Compactibility Modes, I even (hides before thrown stones :oops:) tried cracked version of SHIII.

ABSOLUTELY NO DICE!!!!!! :/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

There has to be something I'm missing (maybe one of the mods is not "Win7 friendly")...
I would really appreciate any help. I consider modded SHIII the best of the Silent Hunter series (even to modded SH4 and the, still POS, SH5). Please help me figure out solution.

Thanks!

-LJ

[sublynx]

Isn't XP a 32-bit version as Windows 7 can run 64-bit? If I remember correctly a 64-bit version can take advantage of memory over 2 GB and a 32-bit system can only allocate 2 GB to a program. Do you use the 4 Gigabyte patch that can be found in downloads section or do you use H.sie's mod that has a 4 Gigabyte switch built into the mod? (Sometimes more memory seems to help with SH3 CTD's.)

I think that You also need to ensure every file is under full user rights, including the save game folder.

I've been a very happy SH3 Windows 7 64-bit user, though of the Windows 7 Home version. I'm sure there is a way to get your game to run and run better in Ultimate than in XP.

Is your computer new btw or did you just upgrade your old one?

[Feuer Frei!]

Hmm...doubt it's win 7 since so many of us run it w/o issues.
(Don't mean to sound aggressive, sorry, just a fact).

As for your issues:

cd version of game?
steam version?
Tried running exe as admin?
when does the ctd's occur? are they occuring randomly or at a precise point of the game?
Can you get the game to even start? Or does the ctd happen ingame?

We will get you up and running again no time.
BDU is impatient and needs you in the Atlantic!

[BigWalleye]

I am on Win7 Home Premium and run SH3. I don't know how different Home Premium and Ultimate are, but that might be your problem. I do use the 4GB patch (through H.sie's patches, but there is a stand-alone). AFAIK, the 4GB patch is beneficial for any program not written to take advantage of the Vista/7/8 increased memory limit - and I don't think it has a downside. It will cause problems if you try to use in in a 2GB-max OS like XP, but since you are running 7, I'd suggest you try installing it.

[desertstriker]

I run ultamite and the only difference is the features such as language packs.

It is probably one of the mods it could have been corrupted during transer (assuming you used a backup to tranfer all your mods) I have had that happen before and the mod would need to be redownloaded.

[conus00]

I just found out an interesting fact: the game always crashes whenever I get close to imaginery line connecting Stavanger and Scapa Flow. Sometimes it crashes as soon as I leave Skagerrak for open sea.
That is VERY odd! Has anybody experienced anything similar?

[sublynx]

Well I haven't but I do have a faint memory about a thread that discussed this.

[Pisces]

Stavanger to Scapa Flow is the 59th northern parallel. That's odd if it is indeed related to lattitude. Does it also happen on the western side of Scotland or Ireland? Or in mid atlantic at that lattitude. Though, through the Skagerak into open (north) sea isn't really the 59th parallel. But the entrance of the Oslo-fjord is at the 59th, if that is what you meant. Try testing it with the navigation tutorial. Or some single mission in that region.

Whatever it is, I suggest making a seperate install of the game (dual install with multiSH if you must keep the old) and rebuild all the mods into it. But do so one at a time, and check if the problem re-occurs. Sometimes you just have to accept and cut your losses short. Time wasted will not return.

p.s. how did you transfer the game from XP into the Windows 7 system? Did you copy the game? As you can't really upgrade XP to 7. Windows 7 needs to be installed completely new.

Ehm, did you install the DirectX 9.0c in Windows 7? Eventhough Windows 7 comes with a later version of DirectX(which is supposed to be backwards compatible, but not really), installing 9.0c anyway solved some problems with older games on my end.

[sailor_X]

CTD will always happen with SH3 from time to time. If not on load than during gameplay, like using high TC with external cam on or scrolling a navigation map with mouse drag. Windows version has nothing to do with CTD u get.

Edited:

Assume there are no mod conflicts that could causes a CTD then,
it's the instability of SH3 itself (poor coding) that causes the problems with CTD most of the time.

[conus00]

So I did something smart: I borrowed my g/f's laptop and created fresh installation of SHIII+GWX3 with IDENTICAL modes I'm trying to run on my desktop... Guess what? It runs.

So obviously there is a problem with my desktop not related to any of the MODs. My next step would be to completely uninstall SHIII and start from scratch. By completely I mean cleaning the registry, careers... etc.

There used to be thread step-by-step how to completely uninstall SHIII from your computer but I cannot find it. Can somebody point me to it, please?

[desertstriker]

I had that issue once though i could not uninstall either so i was royally screwed my solution was to 1 drop to real time just before getting to that "line" and B to save regulary. have not had a CTD at the line since then. I suspect it ha something to do with radio messages being GWX or Hsie patch related but since the problem was solved have not thought about it since then.

[Rhodes]

There used to be thread step-by-step how to completely uninstall SHIII from your computer but I cannot find it. Can somebody point me to it, please?

Uninstall the game, delete the SH3 folder from the My Documents folder and then run a register cleaner, like CCleaner!

Are you running several mods or is just SH3 vanilla or Sh3+super mod?

[BassII]

Have you tried to check your event log?
Maybe you can find something on the error id!

[BigWalleye]

CTD will always happen with SH3 from time to time. If not on load than during gameplay, like using high TC with external cam on or scrolling a navigation map with mouse drag. Windows version has nothing to do with CTD u get.

Edited:

Assume there are no mod conflicts that could causes a CTD then,
it's the instability of SH3 itself (poor coding) that causes the problems with CTD most of the time.

I beg to differ with your statement: "CTD will always happen with SH3 from time to time." If you have an environment which is adequate to run SH3, if you have the game properly installed and patched, and if you follow proper procedures regarding saving games, activating mods, and the use of SH3 Commander, then there is no reason to expect or tolerate either random or reproducible CTDs. If you are experiencing periodic CTDs, then something is interfering with the correct performance of your installation. Whether you choose to fix it or tolerate it is up to you, but it is not due to inherent instability in SH3.

I run SH3 with GWX3.0, Commander, and about two dozen mods. I run under Win7 in hardware of middling capabilities. I DID have a problem with CTDs, severe enough to make the game unplayable. After much work, I identified numerous factors contributing to my problem. Some of them were inherent mod conflicts. More were due to my own mistakes and oversights in installing and using mods, patches, and Commander - including failure to thoroughly RTFM. And I have forty years experience as a professional systems programmer and like to think of myself as fairly conscientious in that regard!

None of my problems was due to any inherent instability in SH3. Since repairing all the self-inflicted damage, I have experienced ONE CTD - when I broke a known rule about saving games to "save a little time." No other CTDs, random or systematic, since then. While I have not personally examined the source code, I have not found any evidence of errors in the code producing CTDs. The fact that there are so many gamers who play SH3 and post on this forum and so few who post accounts of problems would seem to bear this out.

SH3 is a complex system, and when you start modding it, there are many ways you can create problems for yourself. But, I don't think it is fair to say that the SH3 code has imbedded fatal errors, or that fatal errors, such as CTDs, must be tolerated when they occur. The errors are not inherent. They can be found and fixed, if you consider it worth your time to do so.

CAVEAT: I run SH3 with GWX3.0. I have NEVER run rock-stock SH3. But GWX does not change the game engine, sh3.exe, and the game engine is where the executable code lives. Everything else is data.

[BassII]

I beg to differ with your statement: "CTD will always happen with SH3 from time to time." If you have an environment which is adequate to run SH3, if you have the game properly installed and patched, and if you follow proper procedures regarding saving games, activating mods, and the use of SH3 Commander, then there is no reason to expect or tolerate either random or reproducible CTDs. If you are experiencing periodic CTDs, then something is interfering with the correct performance of your installation. Whether you choose to fix it or tolerate it is up to you, but it is not due to inherent instability in SH3.

I run SH3 with GWX3.0, Commander, and about two dozen mods. I run under Win7 in hardware of middling capabilities. I DID have a problem with CTDs, severe enough to make the game unplayable. After much work, I identified numerous factors contributing to my problem. Some of them were inherent mod conflicts. More were due to my own mistakes and oversights in installing and using mods, patches, and Commander - including failure to thoroughly RTFM. And I have forty years experience as a professional systems programmer and like to think of myself as fairly conscientious in that regard!

None of my problems was due to any inherent instability in SH3. Since repairing all the self-inflicted damage, I have experienced ONE CTD - when I broke a known rule about saving games to "save a little time." No other CTDs, random or systematic, since then. While I have not personally examined the source code, I have not found any evidence of errors in the code producing CTDs. The fact that there are so many gamers who play SH3 and post on this forum and so few who post accounts of problems would seem to bear this out.

SH3 is a complex system, and when you start modding it, there are many ways you can create problems for yourself. But, I don't think it is fair to say that the SH3 code has imbedded fatal errors, or that fatal errors, such as CTDs, must be tolerated when they occur. The errors are not inherent. They can be found and fixed, if you consider it worth your time to do so.

CAVEAT: I run SH3 with GWX3.0. I have NEVER run rock-stock SH3. But GWX does not change the game engine, sh3.exe, and the game engine is where the executable code lives. Everything else is data.

I must agree with sailor_X on this one.
SH3 GWX3 is a "funny sim" to play!
After reading this too
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127164&page=2
i surely must say that CTD and errors occurs when you, in stress, suddently change views or something simular, nothing particular, the sim will crash and SH will close!
I did manage to solve my previous errors in the sim, but today i got a new one!
Error ID 1000. SH3 kernel.dll. Never saw it before, but i'm not surprised after seing all the others!
It's nice to see something new now and then, but what will be the next?
Never in stress anymore. I'll save everytime i shut down anything, and start over again. Also with all the radio msg i've recieved once before saving:/\\!!

[BigWalleye]

Let's consider: my installation is completely stable. Yours experiences random (and possibly also systematic) CTDs. We presumably have different mod lists, different hardware, possibly different OSs. We probably use different conditions when we save a game. We presumably do use the same game engine, the file sh3.exe It is possibly the ONLY common element in our two installations. Standard fault analysis logic would infer that the ONLY element which could be eliminated as a source of your problems is the ONLY common element - sh3.exe. And. if the instability you observe is not in sh3.exe, then it is likely due to an incompatibility in your mod list, a limitation of your environment, or a quirk in the conditions of your game saves - anything EXCEPT an inherent error in the code of the game engine.

"I surely must say that CTD and errors occurs when you, in stress, suddently change views or something simular, nothing particular, the sim will crash and SH will close!" I have never observed anything similar to the behavior you describe. And no, I do not find that "SH3 GWX3 is a 'funny sim' to play!" It works fine for me.

The post you cite is 5 years and 4 SH3 versions old. I don't know how it might be relevant to SH3 v1.4. Do you?

- Occam's Razor gives a nice, clean shave.

[BassII]

Ok, i know its an old thread, but i was just looking at the crashes at that time. Some similar obviously appears today also!

I understand your msg. Therefor i'll show you my system and mods.

System:
Win 7 pro 64.
i7-950 QC
2 X MSI Blackhawk ddr5 in sli
18gb ddr3 2000mhz

Mods:
4gb SH3.exe
GWX3
SH3 Commander
MaGui F
GWX3 All Weather Guns
WB's Deck Gun Range
4. WB's Renown Replacement
MEP v3 VisualSensors for gwx3
GWX - 16km Atmosphere
GWX - VIIC41 Player Sub

It could be a mod conflict, but i haven't installed any mod where i could see JSGME shows anything already inside the sim.

Well, a new tracking job in my hard sceduled retirement timetable has been noted:)

[BigWalleye]

BassII, I wasn't around back then (I was around, but not playing SH3!), but AFAIK there were definitely code errors in the original release. ("Don't buy anything with a version number that ends in zero.") By v1.4, maybe sooner, those seem to have been cleaned up.

"Well, a new tracking job in my hard scheduled retirement timetable has been noted:)"

That really was what I was getting at. The game code is OK. If you have problems, you can decide to fix them, or decide to live with them, but you get to choose. My problems were unlivable, and it took me about a month to sort them out, but I have a good installation at the moment.

You certainly seem to have plenty of hardware power. I don't think that is a problem. And your mod list is pretty small with no obvious interactions. Have you ever yanked a mod out with JSGME when it was not on top of the stack. (JSGME will prevent you from removing overwritten mods, but taking out a mod in the middle can mess up JSGME's bookkeeping.) Have you made any changes using Commander? And have you EVER changed your mod list without rolling back Commander? This last one is a real No-No!

From what I have seen around this forum, the best way to get rid of problems (especially CTDs) that have no obvious cause is to do a clean re-install. Roll back Commander. Remove all mods. Uninstall SH3. Delete all residual folders, including the Mods/ folder and the game save folders in User/. Use a registry cleaner. Then reinstall everything. Hopefully, you have saved the downloaded zips of all your mods. No need to re-download, just use the zipped files as your source. See if that doesn't give you more stable performance. This sounds like more work than it actually is. With your mod list, you should be up and playing again in about an hour.

You are absolutely right about one thing: When you add a lot of mods, and when you muck about the data files the way Commander does, there are a lot of opportunities to screw something up. Sometimes, something small and subtle and deep, deep down, that you'll hardly ever see. Only now and then. :)

Let me say too that JSGME and SH3 Commander are wonderful programs. I wouldn't want to have to live without them. And they have a lot of safeguards built into them. But they are also powerful programs and it is possible to misuse them. They are not idiot-proof, as this idiot can attest!

If you want to read my tale of woe, here's the thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=205755 I had lots more stuff going on, and had lots of "minor" problems that added up to a BIG headache. You should have an easier time of it.

Good luck and good hunting! See you at the cabaret!

[BassII]

Thanks again BigWalleye.

I did a clean install a few months ago, and i've learned to do it correctly! Also changing mods when in harbor! (Maybe one have split!)

Never ranked anything!(never seen that), i only install, what i need, with no interference on other installs.

I dont get headache:/\\!! My wife do, dont know why:hmmm::yep:

Lets go sailing......

[BassII]

As BigWalleye said!

I need to point out one thing.
DONT MESS AROUND with mods or Commander while in patrol or game!
I did that with one mod, and i've tracked that down to my own stupidity!

Thank you, sir Kaleun:salute:
I will never do it again:/\\!!

[BigWalleye]

Wanna see my scars?:D

[biosthetique]

@Conus

I have a FNW MV, 64gig of ram, CPU @ 3.30Ghz, the OS is Win7 64bit.

I had a CTD last time, I upgraded the Video Card's drivers. And it was in Relation to your Wide screen Mod.

The new drivers changed automatically some scaling settings. I put them back the way they were before the new drivers and it works.

I bought a while ago SHIII from Steam, to be certain it was always compatible.

Of course I have installed the 6gig patch.

On another hand Windows always download some security patch for Office, Words, etc... and that can cause problems with SHIII.

Then, Steam also upgrades, and could create problems for certain old games.

I found that the secret of happiness, is to keep an old computer working on XP, and play the old games on it.

It is expensive proposition, yet it had been a good insurance against frustrations for some games that would not play anywhere else.:hmm2:

[Kpt. Schaker]

Some sound file or mod file got corrupted during the transfer! As somebody mentioned it's kind of a trial and error! Fire up stock! Then, enabling 1 mod at a time and load! I once had a corrupted depthcharge wav file corrupted, the shake2.wav and everytime I was about to get depthcharged, the game use to CTD. The wav file got turned into a glitch during the transfer from usb stick. It is good when you back up mods to keep them compressed whether saved on usb memory stick or cd/dvdr.

[conus00]

I am officially giving up on this... I uninstalled SH3, cleaned registry and pulled all the mods from my archive. Still getting CTD. :(

I GUESS THERE IS SOMETHING SH3 DOES NOT LIKE ON MY COMPUTER!!!

I'm just really tired of trying. I will play it on my g/f's laptop whenever she is not using it. I'm thinking, in the future, to get some older PC, install XPs and keep it strictly for playing older games.

[desertstriker]

I just realized have you tried running in off of C:\ ? in a different folder then program files. I only just thought of this after re reading your initial post.

[conus00]

I just realized have you tried running in off of C:\ ? in a different folder then program files. I only just thought of this after re reading your initial post.

Yep, tried that too. Installed directly to C:\SH3
No dice...

[sublynx]

Have you tried cleaning the registry manually?

I could not reinstall SH3 into my Windows 7 recently and what helped was actually using regedit and search function. I found an SH3 line there that automatic registry cleaners had not found.

(I also found a line about Civilization IV Colonization and deleted that as well, as I had not been successful in reinstalling that game).

That helped with both games - and now I'm knocking on wood and stuffing my pockets with hare legs in hope that the games might stay operational on my computer for awhile. The biggest reason I haven't bought a faster computer is the hassle of trying to make SH3 etc essential programs working on the new one. But that is another subject.

Try manual editing if you haven't already :ping:

[conus00]

I have. Ran automatic Ccleaner and manually edited all SH3 entries through regedit.

Guys, trust me, I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of.... :wah:

[sublynx]

No help :shifty:

I sat down, told the baby to shut up for a minute and did some memory digging in my brain. I remembered that one necessary step in getting both of those games that I mentioned running was according to this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92562

I had to make the invisible folders seeable and the I had to do something in the install-shield folder. What it was I can't remember anymore.

Hope this helps. I'm 80 % certain that this is your system's problem as well. Good luck!