Exclusive: 4 in 5 in US face near-poverty, no work

[WernherVonTrapp]

This is a bit disconcerting. All those figures that they release periodically about the "jobless rate improving" must be inaccurate.

WASHINGTON (AP) — "Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.
Survey data exclusive to The Associated Press points to an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor and loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend.
The findings come as President Barack Obama tries to renew his administration's emphasis on the economy, saying in recent speeches that his highest priority is to "rebuild ladders of opportunity" and reverse income inequality."

2 Sources:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/national/217290501.html

http://azdailysun.com/news/national/exclusive-in-in-us-face-near-poverty-no-work/article_8db59f4f-a390-5325-a289-ae37f1dee08f.html

[AndyJWest]

All those figures that they release periodically about the "jobless rate improving" must be inaccurate.

Not necessarily -people may be finding work, but in insecure jobs, paying low wages. This is nothing new, and merely a reflection of what has happened elsewhere in the world. There is no reason to assume that the U.S. would be immune from the general trend.

[August]

WASHINGTON (AP) — "Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives

That's kind of a wide net they're casting. My first period of unemployment was in the 1970's. My fathers the 1940's. His fathers the 20's and so on. That doesn't have anything to do with today's problems.

[Platapus]

Good catch August. That "part of their life" is a big loophole.

You don't think those two sources may have a agenda do you? No that would be wrong. :03:

[August]

Yeah they have an agenda but the thing is we've increased our population while at the same time we've sent many of our jobs overseas and automated many others out of existence.

It's like adding weight to a platform while simultaneously knocking out it's supports. Eventually the whole thing is going to come crashing down.

[Armistead]

How they do unemployment numbers is rather silly. Most agree the real number is somewhere between 16-18%.

You would think Obama, the socialist, would see the failure of his programs and spending. Government can't create jobs in a lasting fashion, they can only create an atmosphere for jobs. Seems Obama has done exactly what the GOP has done for years, create an atmosphere where only the elite can get richer, the rest of us poorer.

I am amazed how the cost of everything has increased, yet overall wages have decreased. Only CEO's can claim a 40% increase in wages over the last two years.

America was never prepared for the coming global economy. We passed numerous laws allowing outsourcing of US jobs right before the global economy hit....well planned out and paid for by corporations I expect.

The other scary thing, people living on welfare, food stamps, etc., probably have more income than min. wage jobs, so they don't go looking.
Hard to know the real truth, but many a great mind says we'll face an even worse economic crisis before 2020, one that the govt. won't be able to bail us all out.

Anyway, the only way jobs are coming back is when Americans work for the same pay as those in China or India, building is cheaper, regulations less, taxes lower. If we simply lower taxes, corporations will do as they have in the past when they got a tax holiday, use it to build more plants overseas.

We are falling so far behind overall regarding education, I don't see America leading the world much longer... In reality, as a world power, we had a short run.

[Gargamel]

Part of it is technology.

What was once considered the only essentials to have (Rent, food, water, electric), is only a portion of what comes out of the monthly income of most families.

Cars, TV, Internet, etc.

Yes, they are not truly essentials, but in todays world, at least where I'm at, you're basically a pariah without these.

Good luck filling out a job application without a internet connection. No ISP? just go grab a public wifi access point. Oh, no laptop? Oh just use a public library! Oh, so you frown upon releasing personal info on an unsecured public terminal? Too bad.

It's 28 miles to your new job. Oh, you can't cover the gas money? Get a better car with better mileage....

And on and on.

These Corporations keep jacking up prices for near essential services with no basis other than greed.

Then education.... For a lot of people, it's either put food on their table for their kids, or pay tuition for school.

Sometimes I believe a purely communist society is the way to go.... then I remember humans would be involved.....

[nikimcbee]

How they do unemployment numbers is rather silly. Most agree the real number is somewhere between 16-18%.

You would think Obama, the socialist, would see the failure of his programs and spending. Government can't create jobs in a lasting fashion, they can only create an atmosphere for jobs. Seems Obama has done exactly what the GOP has done for years, create an atmosphere where only the elite can get richer, the rest of us poorer.

I am amazed how the cost of everything has increased, yet overall wages have decreased. Only CEO's can claim a 40% increase in wages over the last two years.

America was never prepared for the coming global economy. We passed numerous laws allowing outsourcing of US jobs right before the global economy hit....well planned out and paid for by corporations I expect.

The other scary thing, people living on welfare, food stamps, etc., probably have more income than min. wage jobs, so they don't go looking.
Hard to know the real truth, but many a great mind says we'll face an even worse economic crisis before 2020, one that the govt. won't be able to bail us all out.

Anyway, the only way jobs are coming back is when Americans work for the same pay as those in China or India, building is cheaper, regulations less, taxes lower. If we simply lower taxes, corporations will do as they have in the past when they got a tax holiday, use it to build more plants overseas.

We are falling so far behind overall regarding education, I don't see America leading the world much longer... In reality, as a world power, we had a short run.

Great post!:salute:

I blame PCness for killing our schools. (insert cassette tape, hit play) The education system (I think) Should have a max focus on Math/science. I still like the German model for education (as I remember it/understand it) with the different tiers of education. I mean, university prep, trade schools, etc. I feel like US kids are all pushed into a university education, when many of them just take stupid classes and a useless degree for the real world. Then they just drink, party, accrue debt, then drop out and want everybody else to pay for their good time.
All of our engineers at work are Indian or Korean/Chinese. Only 1 US born one in our group.

I think we need to change "Idiocracy" from a comedy to a documentary.:dead:

[mapuc]

Two important word here

1. Unemployment
2. Poverty

Is it really the end of the world if you get fired from a job!?
Of course it's not funny to leave a job you may like and friends you may miss, but the important here is the possibility to change in many ways. The most important change one must do is change one economical living.

What is Poverty really?. We have had this discussion the last few years ind Sweden and Denmark.

If you only have money for a basic living and no money for traveling 1-2 times a year, visiting a 3-4 stars restaurant 2-3 times a month then your are poor.

Markus

[Catfish]

Fine Niki that you so much adore the german system.
Meanwhile we have almost Nazi-like working conditions again, no holiday to speak about, and unemployment at a real 28 percent.
Those who have jobs work 9 hours a day, ready to get up at night for their company unless they do not want to lose their jobs.
All the reliefs having been fought for for centuries, supported by trade unions, are nil after the agenda 2010. There is also no real monetary securement anymore when you lose your job, it is down to half a year after which you get the so-called HartzIV, too much to die and too less to live.
And do not expect a job to fit your education -

As well we are now number one in lowest wages in all Europe, even behind Lithuania.
All this is the reason why Germany still is in the high ranks economical-wise, but at what cost ?

Obama a socialist, unemployment is not bad but only a chance yaddayadda i wish you all two years of unemployment in Germany, and then we'll talk. You guys have no idea what you are talking about.
:nope:

[mapuc]

Fine Niki that you so much adore the german system.
Meanwhile we have almost Nazi-like working conditions again, no holiday to speak about, and unemployment at a real 28 percent.
Those who have jobs work 9 hours a day, ready to get up at night for their company unless they do not want to lose their jobs.
All the reliefs having been fought for for centuries, supported by trade unions, are nil after the agenda 2010. There is also no real monetary securement anymore when you lose your job, it is down to half a year after which you get the so-called HartzIV, too much to die and too less to live.
And do not expect a job to fit your education -

As well we are now number one in lowest wages in all Europe, even behind Lithuania.
All this is the reason why Germany still is in the high ranks economical-wise, but at what cost ?

Obama a socialist, unemployment is not bad but only a chance yaddayadda i wish you all two years of unemployment in Germany, and then we'll talk. You guys have no idea what you are talking about.
:nope:

I think many of us can talk about being unemployed and how it feels. Some of us have been that for maybe 1-2-3-4 or more years.

Yes it's different in each country, when you are unemployed
In Denmark you receive about 90 % of what you earned when you had a job, however the highest payment you get is about 3300 $/month and you get that for 2 years

In Sweden you get about 75-80 % and you will get it only for 300 working days(Mon-Friday)

Don't know how it is in Germany.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

It's a numbers game ... more people are entering the system than ever before.

I never really trusted all of these polls anyway ... who do they ask, where do they ask these questions and how many people do they ask and what do these people really know?

The real problem is more alcohol is being consumed, more drugs are being purchased, more sexual problems are being encountered in the daily lives of many. I won't go there.

College is a just a place where you graduate and wait for the right opportunity to do what you have been schooled to do, but can't find a job that fits your education level. So you take anything you can till something opens up and many give up finding where they were headed was probably wrong in the first place.

People are more depressed, more depression leads to more drugs, more drugs leads to more depression. I think the people of the 70's were a lot like that.

We need better leaders that don't just talk a good game, but provide a better work place with more advantages for businesses to hire and train people to be the employees they want and need.

When you join the military they know they can count on you for up to four to six years at a time and they train and equip you for the long run.

The private sector should come up with four year hiring plans that include both parties benefiting from the employment.

Credit cards are my next complaint, but I'll wait till that subject comes up ... hard to preach against credit cards in a society that thrives on them.

[Wolferz]

The governments have practiced deficit spending so long that now even the rank and file are forced to do the same thing due to all this runaway greed. At first it was all hinged on the price of a barrel of oil but now not so much. Prices keep rising even when oil prices drop back because the CEO's and their ilk get paid a king's ransom to do nothing and that expense is always passed on to the consumers. It's just a vicious circle with no end in sight other than the complete collapse of the entire house of cards.

[TarJak]

The real key words in the frame for this bit of statistical scaremongering are "for at least parts of their lives". This makes these statistics fall into the category of not worth the bandwidth used to download them.

[AVGWarhawk]

Conduct a war. The US is a war machine that manufactures war materials. Nothing else is manufactured here.

[Skybird]

Distraction tactics again, I see: endlessly fighting over one phrase while ignoring the bigger picture.

http://www.infowars.com/21-statistics-about-the-explosive-growth-of-poverty-in-america-that-everyone-should-know/

Germany: the price for the economic endurance - which is now showing signs of stalling - has been reported about again in the press recently: only Lithuania has a higher quote of low-wage jobs than Germany. The phenomenon of the so-called working poor has reached Germany already yeas ago, and currently is pushing the income environment over here completely over the edge. The compensations for top managers failing in their jobs and getting fired, nevertheless have reached new record highs. Wonders and miracles. Could almost turn me into a believer.

I wish I would have such a top job for just once in my life. I promise you I would make sure to fail so monumentally and faster than you can say "you're fired" that they could not avoid to fire me after just one month and pay me a compensation that enables me to live like a pop star for the rest of my life. With not knowing anything needed in such a job I think I would qualify perfectly for that scheme. :yeah: Failure and lacking success pays off for fat cats! :yeah:

---

There are two kinds of capitalism: the one is represented by the honest salesman who indeed wants to deserve what he earns. The other is the one who wants to get away with as much quick money made as possible for as little work and investment possible, not caring for the damage he does, and not caring for the big flood that follows him.

The first we should respect and encourage and reward by supporting him by doing business with him.

But the latter we should mercilessly slay wherever we find him, for he is the cyanid of the Earth.

[mookiemookie]

For everyone jumping on that "oh yeah, 'for at least part of their lives' so this article sucks" bandwagon, think about this - what does it say when our system rests on such a tenuous position that 80% of people are destitute at some point in their lives? Shouldn't someone that practices the right-wing, Rand-ian ideal of self reliance enjoy at least some measure of insulation from abject poverty? Does this mean that 80% of people are not hard workers and responsible for their own fortunes in life? I doubt that.

[August]

think about this - what does it say when our system rests on such a tenuous position that 80% of people are destitute at some point in their lives?

Point out a time in American history when 80% of people hadn't been destitute at some point in their lives. You won't find it in the 20th century that's for sure.

[Tribesman]

For everyone jumping on that "oh yeah, 'for at least part of their lives' so this article sucks" bandwagon, think about this - what does it say when our system rests on such a tenuous position that 80% of people are destitute at some point in their lives? Shouldn't someone that practices the right-wing, Rand-ian ideal of self reliance enjoy at least some measure of insulation from abject poverty? Does this mean that 80% of people are not hard workers and responsible for their own fortunes in life? I doubt that.
But it doesn't say that mookie, the 80% is just nonsense.
Take me for an example, I was unemployed when I broke my leg. Therefore I am one of those 80%, yet I was not destitute.
You simply cannot link the figures with the claim made about them as they are so broad as to be meaningless.

[TarJak]

Point out a time in American history when 80% of people hadn't been destitute at some point in their lives. You won't find it in the 20th century that's for sure.

Exactly, not knowing the demographic of the survey, you'd have to consider that you would include at least some in the survey that lived through the depression of 1929-1933, and certainly the many downturns and upturns in the economy since then. Even during the boom times of near full employment there were always a high proportion of people who were not receiving enough in wages to subsist on let alone get clear of the poverty line.

I doubt that you'll find it in the 21st, 22nd or 23rd either. The stats showed here are just rubbish meant to point towards some failing or other. They should be treated with the contempt these numbers deserve.

[CaptainMattJ.]

The entire system is one big mess and hardly good for the middle man.

Unfortunately, putting yourself in tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt JUST to start your usually average career at a comparably mediocre wage isn't even likely to work anymore for some people. College graduates are finding out more and more that the degree they slaved over for 4+ years and spent absurd amounts of money on is quickly becoming less and less a ticket to their success.

And then to raise a family on some of these incomes? My dad worked (and is still working) 36 years in electronics. Hes built, sodered, tested, inspected, filed, repaired, and ordered just about every electronic part there is. He makes 60k. Not bad, for maybe 1 or 2 people. Our family of four on the other hand, usually had about 10 dollars in the bank at any one paycheck. the cost of living is astronomical. It didnt help that the 700 dollar health insurance plan we paid into still stuck us with a 6 thousand dollar deductible after my sister went into the hospital. So much for those amazing, helpful insurance companies huh? Pay ridiculous rates for piss poor coverage. This is normal now with MANY families. Insurance costs, utilities, rent, gas, food, realty, everything has gone so far up in price, yet the wages of the workers have not. My family's entire life had been living paycheck to paycheck. My parents still do. If any big expense came up its credit card or wed be bankrupt.

Its not poverty but one slip and it could be. If my sister had gone into the hospital again we couldnt possibly afford to pay the astronomical and ridiculous deductible. Health care is unaffordable. Housing is becoming unaffordable. Schooling is unaffordable (and overcrowded, and unfair and biased). Everything is becoming more expensive. Yet wages aren't increasing. Many families live like this now, literally paycheck to paycheck, one slip or one missed check and you're out on the street. The entire system is just one big mess.

[Skybird]

The cynism of those trying to give it a twist by remarking that a common phrase which should be obvious in its common meaning now even refers to the early and mid 20s maybe even was meant by the author to embrace all American history, is remarkable.

By abusing scaling that way, just everything in the world can be endlessly relativised until it means nothing anymore. Stage-acting as a pedantic is a great rhetoric weapon.

[Tribesman]

Stage-acting as a pedantic is a great rhetoric weapon.
Whereas statistics on Prison planet are just as big a joke as Alex Jones is.

If the scaling is meaningless then the conclusion being attached to the numbers presented is meaningless too.

If the authors of the linked pieces wanted to put across a message with merit they should stick to supporting evidence which backs up their message, not "evidence" which in reality says nothing.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Perhaps it's just me, but does anyone else see a wide margin for error in the way the United States conducts it's unemployment surveys?
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

I don't recall, in my entire life, ever being suject to one of these surveys.

[gimpy117]

Its not poverty but one slip and it could be. If my sister had gone into the hospital again we couldnt possibly afford to pay the astronomical and ridiculous deductible. Health care is unaffordable. Housing is becoming unaffordable. Schooling is unaffordable (and overcrowded, and unfair and biased). Everything is becoming more expensive. Yet wages aren't increasing. Many families live like this now, literally paycheck to paycheck, one slip or one missed check and you're out on the street. The entire system is just one big mess.

I agree, thats the problem...these jobs pay SO LITTLE that if you miss a day or two at work, or you have unexpected expenses...you are out of luck...and then ti gets more expensive because now you have a bazillion late fees to deal with and bad credit

[Platapus]

Perhaps it's just me, but does anyone else see a wide margin for error in the way the United States conducts it's unemployment surveys?
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

I don't recall, in my entire life, ever being suject to one of these surveys.


But, when you think about it, how would you measure unemployment? That's not an easy thing to measure.

You can measure people on unemployment benefits but those end after 2 years. What else can be used to measure unemployment?

Companies are not required to report to the government how many people applied but were not hired.

It is not an easy thing to measure with any accuracy.

[WernherVonTrapp]

But, when you think about it, how would you measure unemployment? That's not an easy thing to measure.

You can measure people on unemployment benefits but those end after 2 years. What else can be used to measure unemployment?

Companies are not required to report to the government how many people applied but were not hired.

It is not an easy thing to measure with any accuracy.
I agree.:yep: When I read how the surveys were conducted, the first question I asked myself is: How can they even publish any reliable statistics at all? To think that out of a population of about 313,000,000, they only survey about 60,000; begs the question.

We've heard about recently revealed secrets involving government eavesdropping followed by the IRS being ordered to target specific groups; what if the census takers are ordered to only target middle class neighborhoods where there is more likely to be employed citizens? What if they're told to avoid the inner-citys?

I'm not accusing the government, but I see a lot of room for error/abuse or the manipulation of the actual numbers.

I never know who to believe when one administration or the other posts it's numbers.:doh:

[Platapus]

This is why these and other like statistical results should only be considered general in nature and with significant error bars.

I shake my head ruefully when people get spun up when the unemployment rate is reported as increasing by 0.003 (0.3%) Crikey, the data set is not accurate enough for that type of fidelity. :nope: Normal fluctuations of data collection can account for that increase.

There are just too many unknown and unmeasurable variables to get a truly accurate unemployment level.

To me, unemployment is represented by tens of percents. It is either under 10% or over 10, 20, 30...% Any results more precise than that should be taken with an equally statistically large grain of salt.

But some methodology is needed. What is important is that the same methodology (no matter how bad) is used so we have a consistent (if inaccurate) result to compare.

The key term to watch out for is the term "weighting". Anytime you see that term in a statistical methodology, red flags should shoot up.

In statistics, all data is considered equal... just that some data is a little more equal than other data. :yep:

Most weightings are appropriate, some are not. The important thing is to find out who is weighing the data, how they are weighing the data, and why are they weighing the data. Without that information, you should have a healthy suspicion of the statistics.

Bottom line: If the methodology is not transparent, the resulting statistic is worthless. :yep:

[WernherVonTrapp]

I know how bad I am at math, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is wrong but 60,000 surveys out of 313,000,000 people; isn't that less than .020% of the population? I understand that it's a standard guideline and/or form of measurement, but at what cost of misinformation?

.020 percent of a population isn't even remotely an average or discernable measurement. It just makes no sense to me that they would even try to venture a guess at such an infinitesimal number and then pass it off as a reasonable measurement through the News Media.:nope: