wolfpacks...got some working in RSRD...sorta

[Bubblehead1980]

A major part missing from SH 4 from day one was presence of US/Japanese subs in the pacific. Luckily some modders made AI IJN subs, US fleetboats and German U boats.I have added on this and put them in my mod(an expansion for RSRD) I have been building for a while.Have Japanese subs in various places such as off coast of US in early war, off Hawaii, in the sea lanes used by US subs, in key areas at right times.Some are random, some are specific such as the three subs sunk by USS Batfish off Luzon in Feb 1945, can replicate this famous patrol(I did) to the exact minute.

Anyways, another thing missing esp given how large and well protected late war convoys are, well are other US fleetboats attacking. I wondered how enemy escorts would treat AI fleetboats. I picked a specific convoy( USS Barb and others attacked) I added to RSRD in August 30/31 1944 in Luzon Straits to try this out on.I had two AI fleet boats placed along path of convoy and since they cant submerge, night surface attack.I timed it so they would move in and once detected, escorts went after them, leaving my side of convoy unprotected as merchants slowed and zigged towards me, I attacked with two torpedoes to each ship, two mid sized freigters, one large tanker, all caught fire, tanker exploded, 3 ships down.Turned stern tubes and fired, two more hits in a large transport, a DE rushed in a max speed, I ran off.

So pseudo pack tactics seem possible but of course they lack offensive capability.They also are essentially sacrificed, at least one was gunned down by escorts, others reached their turning point and sped away to their "end point" where they disappeared, ie simulate they decided to dive.

Anyway with the ability who could get them to fire a couple torpedoes? such as the PT boats can fire AI torpedoes? This would be great, its way beyond my knowledge(adding them to pt boats one time per instructions worked, kinda of but drove me crazy) but could really add to the sim.

I am going to try this again but put them submerged(can make them submerged or on surface, but cant switch.) I added an AI sub representing the Argonaut so if player is using Narwhal in August 42 and assigned to the Makin Atoll mission, Argonaut departs Pearl Harbor on proper date, arrives off Makin at right date time, then a submerged fleetboat stays in area until time to surface.A new one spawns, moves up , spawns spec ops rafts, then leaves area and "dives again" until time to pick them up, then "surfaces" and when time is right, heads back to Pearl.


Also random US subs traveling around at different times and specific fleetboats operating throughout the pacific.They enter their areas, some "dive" others just patrol, then return home.Just adds to immersion, would love for them to have the ability to attack something. Imagine attacking a convoy, not knowing another US sub is in area, suddenly a ship blows up, could be interesting.Of course, if enemy subs had torpedoes, could be en route back home after pearl harbor and have to worry about this.

I decided to try this out since no one else has as far as I know.Anyone interested who has some ideas/pointers/ etc, feel free.

[U505995]

As far as I know, the only AI units capable of launching actual torpedoes that will hit their target and explode are torpedo bombers. Otherwise things like Pt boats and AI subs fire dummy torpedoes.

[c13Garrison]

Sounds awesome and fascinating, but coding is way beyond my ken. Much support to you though! Good luck :up:

[Armistead]

Where is the US functioning sub mod? I know of the Jap ones that can be added to traffic, but wasn't aware someone made a US AI working sub you can add in the game.

You can add subs in the game submerged, but as I recall, they eventually sink, unless you put them in shallow water.

[TorpX]

Sounds great Bubblehead. I agree this would add a lot to game.

Someone, I forget who, was experimenting with getting DD's to launch torpedoes, and worked out most of the problems. I don't understand how these things work, but they did. IIRC, the only thing he couldn't solve was the erratic torpedo launching. Wind or waves would make them go all over the place.

I am going to try this again but put them submerged(can make them submerged or on surface, but cant switch.)

I didn't know this was possible. How did you figure this out?

[Bubblehead1980]

As far as I know, the only AI units capable of launching actual torpedoes that will hit their target and explode are torpedo bombers. Otherwise things like Pt boats and AI subs fire dummy torpedoes.

No, the torpedoes adde to pt boats would explode, their aim just wasnt great...i put them in surigao strait during leyte gulf battle, they engaged the IJN BB force(per history) but out of i imagine _torpedoes fire between the swarm of boats, 3 or 4 hit. This was a while back, actually been researching the forums on how to add them to pt boats DD's again, may see if can figure out something for AI subs.

[Bubblehead1980]

Sounds great Bubblehead. I agree this would add a lot to game.

Someone, I forget who, was experimenting with getting DD's to launch torpedoes, and worked out most of the problems. I don't understand how these things work, but they did. IIRC, the only thing he couldn't solve was the erratic torpedo launching. Wind or waves would make them go all over the place.

I didn't know this was possible. How did you figure this out?


When you add a random unit to the layer and select a submarine...notice i think its in the left hand side, where set the speed is on the left, on the right itll say depth(like anything its on metric) so if want it at 12 meter under you enter -12.Problem is when you make a waypoint, itll just keep it at that depth and cant adjust it.However, it does work as I tracked the "Argonaut" off Makin in August 42, its how knew it was near although submerged.Bounced a sonar ping off it once in a while.Also, have encountered submerged IJN subs i put in, tried to sink one that was at periscope depth but essentially firing on sound bearings only is tough.

[Bubblehead1980]

Where is the US functioning sub mod? I know of the Jap ones that can be added to traffic, but wasn't aware someone made a US AI working sub you can add in the game.

You can add subs in the game submerged, but as I recall, they eventually sink, unless you put them in shallow water.


There is an AI fleetboat in TMO. Needs some deck guns and watch crew added to it but it will steer a course properly, has the engine sounds, reacts enemy etc.

Check the TMO roster/submarine, youll see AI fleetboat.When adding via ME, just select us ships, scroll down and will see AI fleetboat.Just looks like a Gato/Balao class.Needs some attention like i said , spurce it up but overall its great.Would love to see all the classes of submarine functioning, but a bit above my paygrade.

My goal is to have things like this, come together with the traffic and better ability to pull off realistic night surface attacks, will definitely add to the game.

[Armistead]

Seems when I tried it the fleetboat wouldn't hold speed, no matter what you set it, it stops to zero and just sits there. However, been a long time, but seems in my setup there was no US AI sub, just a US fleet boat and then the several classes. Are you referring to the US Fleet Class platform. Not sure I tried that one.

[Bubblehead1980]

Seems when I tried it the fleetboat wouldn't hold speed, no matter what you set it, it stops to zero and just sits there. However, been a long time, but seems in my setup there was no US AI sub, just a US fleet boat and then the several classes. Are you referring to the US Fleet Class platform. Not sure I tried that one.

Yes, have to use the "US fleet class submarine", the others dont work.Would love to make the different classes work.

[airsangel]

Bubblehead1980 love what you just said....actually would make the most real immersion in ww2

[TorpX]

Seems when I tried it the fleetboat wouldn't hold speed, no matter what you set it, it stops to zero and just sits there.
This is what happened when I tried to put a IJN sub into a mission. I don't recall what results I got with US subs. This was with RFB, though.

[Armistead]

This is what happened when I tried to put a IJN sub into a mission. I don't recall what results I got with US subs. This was with RFB, though.


Well, the bad thing they don't evade and just die if attacked by surface ships. You can use the Sen Toku mod for a working sub, but have to add it into the traffic layers. I put a few in RSRD dropping off midget subs. Course they don't drop them, I just spawn the midgets near them. Don't see why you can't use the working IJN sub in the game. I'll look into it.

[merc4ulfate]

I'm not so sure about an AI subs not going from surface to submerged. Maybe it is only a US Fleetboat issue.

If you could look into the U-Boat side you will find many Russian Submarines when fired upon with deck guns will submerged to escape. I have seen them do this to me so often that I have stopped firing at them with the deck gun and instead only use torpedoes now.

Another thing I would like to see is TMO, RSRD, and RFB also have playable U-boats for the Pacific. They were there so why not be able to switch sides so instead of coming across an AI U-Boat you could actually be that U-boat passing through the Luzon Straits, hiding in the Bungo for unwary US Naval vessles or taking your chances by slipping into a harbor or two?

I have never looked into it but isnt there a multplayer aspect to this game??

I used to play 688 Hunter Killer in a virtual Navy back in the 90's and it was so much fun to be able to play against other humans. AI's are predictable but against another human the simulation became very real and very personal. Some missions were COOP and some were simply hunter and kill ... my favorite mission was one where there were 8 submarines in the water in close proximity and the goal was last man standing. It took me 6 hours to hunt down the last man but we called it a draw since we both had done such a good job of avoiding detection.

What a fabulous mission it would be to have U-Boat and Fleet Boats in a mission together and all human controlled. One protecting the convoy by listening for the enemy the other risking everything to come in for the kill.

:rock::arrgh!::salute:

[Armistead]

None of the AI boats go from surfaced to submerged, no trigger to make them do so.

I did try the US fleetboat and it does keep speed on the surface, even shoots it's deck gun, just has no crew and needs zones added. It got in a running gun battle with Bungo Pete and won.

[Bubblehead1980]

None of the AI boats go from surfaced to submerged, no trigger to make them do so.

I did try the US fleetboat and it does keep speed on the surface, even shoots it's deck gun, just has no crew and needs zones added. It got in a running gun battle with Bungo Pete and won.

I didnt see them firing deck guns, hmm, then again it was at night, was busy attacking and getting away, i know one did get caught by the DD and gunned down.Wonder if DD's will depth charge submerged AI fleetboats? Definitely need to add some crew and zones to AI fleetboat, hopefully crew will go away if submerged or perhaps can have two versions , once for surface, one for submerged.

Hopefully someone with the knowledge will step forward and help see if can get subs to fire torpedoes, even if they were limited to two fish or something, itd be nice.

[Armistead]

Well, it won't hold speed submerged, just surfaced. I figured the zones weren't there, Pete blasted it non stop, finally even got beside it, but sub finally sunk it.

I guess it could be fun to put one in places, to pull escorts, but you would have to know what time to be there. Course it would be cannon fodder, because it goes into attack mode like a ship.

[merc4ulfate]

Sorry Armistead. I have seen Russian Submarines do it, you can even see their crews at the deck and AA guns ... maybe its in the code somewhere but I have seen it happen a lot. If I torpedo them they stay on the surface but if I start using my deck gun they dive.

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[Bubblehead1980]

Well, it won't hold speed submerged, just surfaced. I figured the zones weren't there, Pete blasted it non stop, finally even got beside it, but sub finally sunk it.

I guess it could be fun to put one in places, to pull escorts, but you would have to know what time to be there. Course it would be cannon fodder, because it goes into attack mode like a ship.

Well I have the timing down on two convoys in Luzon Straits in August-September-October 1944.One is a convoy I added, one is a large convoy already in RSRD.I have the timing down so they get close enough to alert the enemy, then hit their last waypoint and disappear, ie they "dive". Like I said, in the first trial, it pulled all escorts away from my side, of course the merchants slow and began constant helming, but now with darker nights, its easier to rush in on surface and with escorts off hunting others, can move in faster submerged if needed.

I'm asking a few different ones about how to fix up the fleet boat, want to place deck deck and 40 MMM 20 MM which is missing from the AI fleetboat, perhaps .Longer term, want a way to make them fire torpedoes, surely if other ships can be made to do so, a fleetboat can fire them, even if it could only fire two torpedoes, it would add to things.

This is a project I definitely want to be part of the mod.Thinking I will add 10 wolfpacks , start with the first ones in late 43 and add them over course of 44 and in 45.Adding "orders" before one departs and messages to and from other subs is also an aim, im still figuring all that out.Timing is everything. Armistead, you mentioned zones you are using for your special missions.Could they be used to spawn ai fleetboats when reach certain areas? Send messages to form a wolfpack etc?