The Firearm thread: Engineering artistry of wood, polymer and steel.

[Mr Quatro]

Sig Sauer is a good manufacturer. I still have my 226 and it is as solid as ever.

Is it better than a Glock 19 ... I remember that you like Glock's, but I don't like that double trigger thing, especially thinking that it is a safety.

[Rockstar]

Is it better than a Glock 19 ... I remember that you like Glock's, but I don't like that double trigger thing, especially thinking that it is a safety.

Safety? We dont need no stinking safety. :D. Here's a 1939 Soviet TT33 from my collection. Other than not chambering a round there was no safety feature built into the weapon.
https://i.imgur.com/ZgrntzH.jpg

[Aktungbby]

Safety? We dont need no stinking safety. :D.
^Precisely I still carry the 92D (double-action only)Baretta 24/7 on and off duty...since 1992!:yeah: No hammer; no safety; and no decocker to forget before reholstering which has caused quite a few mishaps even for professionals..:o Mine is additionally equipped with the Crimson Trace Laser grips http://www.crimsontrace.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/100x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/l/g/lg-302_ghosted_web_1.jpg (http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/type/discontinued-products/01-1130): the weapon is sighted at factory for 25 yards; but with the grips and accounting for some windage or trajectory drop, the ball opens reasonably at 75 yards especially at night or in low light -my normal work conditions. A distinct improvement in shooting ergonomics (as long as your batteries hold up):oops:! Moreover the intimidation factor is unmistakable to the 'bad guys' which saves messy paperwork-the little thumbnail warning sticker on the barrel slide reminds u "Danger: Avoid eye exposure" ie not to aim the laser at someone's eyes.....Yeah right! My ex-Marine permit-trainer on trying the equipped weapon, glumly allowed: "if everyone has these (sights) I'll have nothing to teach!" http://members.shaw.ca/tmcveigh/Projects/GunRights/images/92D_maxi.jpg (http://members.shaw.ca/tmcveigh/Projects/GunRights/images/92D_maxi.jpg)

[yubba]

Safety? We dont need no stinking safety. :D. Here's a 1939 Soviet TT33 from my collection. Other than not chambering a round there was no safety feature built into the weapon.


You'll blow your winky off,, pound for pound a 1911 45acp is the way to go,and plenty of safeties, you can't build a better mouse trap ,, I got 2, a 100 year old 1, one the first 500,000 and my norinco with a 2 and half pound trigger pull I can put a door knob into a 4in bull at 65yards, braced against the house of course.

[Platapus]

Is it better than a Glock 19 ... I remember that you like Glock's, but I don't like that double trigger thing, especially thinking that it is a safety.

you might have me confused with another Platapus.

I have a glock and I think it is a good design, but I would not consider myself a glock fan.

On the topic of double action...

I think that a properly designed double action can be a good thing. I have found that several semi automatics that I own/fired where the second shot is single action that the first double action trigger pull is less than stellar. And I put my 226 in that category. If I ever needed to fire that I would hope to have the time to pull the hammer back. The double action pull on the 226 can be a beast!

When I was shooting my 226 in USPSA competitions, you could not carry it cocked. Double action first shot pistols had to be carried with the hammer down. One of the many reasons why USPSA shooters preferred single action semi autos. Single action pistols could be carried cocked.

The advantage of a double action only pistol is that *usually* the double action pull is properly designed and with double action only every shot has the same trigger pull.

With double action first single action second pistols it is common for new shooters to shoot high on the first (double action) shot and shoot low on the second (single action) shot because of the drastically different trigger pulls. I know it took me a long time to get my first and second shot groups tight.

[Red October1984]

Gun news :up:

I'm hoping I can get my hands on one. :D

I like Beretta (and probably will carry one if I'm not convinced otherwise) but I like Sig a lot more.

As soon as the surplus M9's reach market I'm hopefully gonna snag one up. Although here soon I'll be saving for the Beretta 96 chambered in .40

I don't care much for 9mm and .45 has too many disadvantages as a CCW caliber. Missouri recently changed laws that loosened restrictions but I'll still get my permit to go out of state. On top of that, if I'm at home I have a shotgun which is way better for defense anyway.

As far as the 9mm M9's, my uncle carried one in Iraq and said at the time the issue ones were awful. Nearly blew up in his hand after he dropped it and dented the barrel in. Good thing he found out before he had to fire it. :doh: The civilian market ones (92) are supposedly way better and have an easier trigger pull. I've not fired a proper M9 but have been behind 92's and I think they're great as long as they don't get dented like has been claimed.

Safety? We dont need no stinking safety. :D. Here's a 1939 Soviet TT33 from my collection. Other than not chambering a round there was no safety feature built into the weapon.

Also going to get a Tokarev to go with my Mosin-Nagant. :Kaleun_Wink:

EDIT: These (http://www.jgsales.com/romanian-tokarev-ttc-semi-auto-pistol,-7.62x25-caliber,-blued,-c-r,-used.-p-83109.html) aren't too expensive so I was thinking about one of these. It's not a true Russian model, being Romanian and all, but it's still a Tokarev

I am a simple man. I love German cars, Russian weapons and (proper, not the Olive Garden food chain bullcrap) Italian food.

[Commander Wallace]

The Sigs and Berettas are both excellent and you can't really go wrong with either. Ruger also makes hearty and well made guns. It's a matter of preference and taste with anything well made. As far as using a shotgun for home defense, they are great if you are in one room and not moving through hallways and opening and closing doors. If you are moving about, handguns offer a lot of advantages in moving freely and having a free hand as well. Long guns and shotguns are better once you have family members all assembled in one place.

[Red October1984]

The Sigs and Berettas are both excellent and you can't really go wrong with either. Ruger also makes hearty and well made guns. It's a matter of preference and taste with anything well made.

Price as well. Some guns cost too much for me to justify especially if I'm going to get more than one.

As far as using a shotgun for home defense, they are great if you are in one room and not moving through hallways and opening and closing doors. If you are moving about, handguns offer a lot of advantages in moving freely and having a free hand as well. Long guns and shotguns are better once you have family members all assembled in one place.

You're right. But for me it comes down to what's the best weapon to effectively deter or eliminate a threat with as little effort as possible. Aiming a pistol is harder than pointing a shotgun when you're in a pinch.

[Commander Wallace]

Price as well. Some guns cost too much for me to justify especially if I'm going to get more than one.



You're right. But for me it comes down to what's the best weapon to effectively deter or eliminate a threat with as little effort as possible. Aiming a pistol is harder than pointing a shotgun when you're in a pinch.


Most shootings occur at distances of 11 feet or less. Legally speaking, if you shoot someone from a distance of 25 feet or greater, you will be hard pressed to show an individual was a threat to you unless they also had a gun and there was an imminent threat to your life. This is if you are to claim self defense although some states have made it easier for home owners to do just that.

Having said that, most individuals can shoot accurately at that range with a handgun with little in the way of training. Further, most assailants seeing a gun in your hand won't stick around to see how proficient you are with a handgun. It is incumbent upon any individual who incorporates the use of a firearm in the protection of their homes and families to be proficient in their use and take steps to learn how to shoot accurately not to mention how to safely secure them when not in use.

It makes sense if one is going to use a weapon to protect their home or family, to implement them as part of a well thought out and defined strategy and flexible enough to cover contingencies. This includes gathering places for family members, primary and secondary in the face of threats. It should also include ways of contacting law enforcement for assistance. Should the phone lines be cut, there should be alternate ways of doing that Thankfully, with cell phones, this isn't an issue.

As you said, the weapon you choose should be within your comfort level of utilizing it for self defense.

[Red October1984]

Having said that, most individuals can shoot accurately at that range with a handgun with little in the way of training. Further, most assailants seeing a gun in your hand won't stick around to see how proficient you are with a handgun. It is incumbent upon any individual who incorporates the use of a firearm in the protection of their homes and families to be proficient in their use and take steps to learn how to shoot accurately not to mention how to safely secure them when not in use.

This is exactly why I keep my shotgun around because I have family members that are home often that are not strong in the skills required. But, a pump shotgun is among the simplest weapons to use.

Teaching somebody who has barely held a weapon previously how to fire a shotgun is much easier than teaching somebody to fire a pistol even though, like you said, it's usually close ranges.

Where I live at home, house break-ins are VERY rare but they do happen. So I don't put a whole lot of time and energy into this sort of thing. I just keep my shotgun around with some 00 Buck nearby on the off-chance I'd need it.

Where I live now, is another story. I, unfortunately, do not live in a housing situation that allows me to keep weapons. So I will likely be getting a permit and keeping one in the car or something like that. I'll have to check on specifics. Missouri just recently relaxed a bunch of gun laws so with the new changes I'll have to do some homework.

Responsibility and accountability is everything. :salute:

[Red October1984]

On an entirely different note, I just wanted to share another beautiful firearm out on the market that I've been drooling over lately.

Springfield Armory M1A (http://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series/)

In the age of the AR platform, I'm constantly reminded how much I like the old way better. I love bolt action rifles and I like battle rifles. 5.56 isn't versatile enough to do what I want to do and this rifle and it's other variations are, in my mind, perfect. Yes, AR platform has all kinds of variations and customizability etc etc. It's all unnecessary bells and whistles.

This rifle is right in the middle of the old and the new.

I just thought i'd share it. Prices are insane for these so it's still a ways off.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I have a number of firearms, but I'd like to get one which is more modern for home defense. Unfortunately, one isn't legally allowed to be armed in the People's Republic of Maryland outside one's home.

[em2nought]

I have a number of firearms, but I'd like to get one which is more modern for home defense. Unfortunately, one isn't legally allowed to be armed in the People's Republic of Maryland outside one's home.

Move south across the Mason-Dixon, what you save in taxes can buy you a new Springfield M1A every year. :03:

I just counted my firearms, and I now believe I have a shopping problem. :D

[em2nought]

I couldn't resist, I think I have a problem. At least I have something at the end of the day unlike lap dances. We'll you hope you never have something after a lap dance.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImages/138570/981863289/wm_6503273.jpg

[Platapus]

As far as using a shotgun for home defense, they are great if you are in one room and not moving through hallways and opening and closing doors.


If you are in a home defense situation, you shouldn't be going through your house room to room opening doors. You should be in a defensive position waiting for the police to arrive. Let them to the room clearing.

[Commander Wallace]

If you are in a home defense situation, you shouldn't be going through your house room to room opening doors. You should be in a defensive position waiting for the police to arrive. Let them to the room clearing.

That's all well and good if you are alone. If you have family members in various bedrooms, both upstairs and down, then you need to be able to move about to gather them in one place. Once everyone is in one place in a defensible position, then I would advocate the use of more powerful long guns in defense to cover a door while contacting law enforcement for assistance. I'm also not confident in law enforcement in that situation being able to tell the bad guys from the home owners.

I also prefer to do my own house clearing and rely on my own skills and knowledge of the layout of my home. Let law enforcement secure the perimeter. Further, if one lives in a rural area, It may well be a long wait of 25 minutes or more for law enforcement to arrive. This is an eternity to one so besieged. If everyone is assembled in one place and safe and secure, then it makes sense to take your advice.

[Red October1984]

Went and looked at a few guns the other day.

Looked at a few Berettas, some Sig, and a new brand I hadn't heard of...EAA...which to my understanding is just CZ clones. PX4 Storm looks like a solid candidate for what I want instead of the 96. PX4 felt way better in my hands and it's not as big and bulky while still offering the caliber I want and it has that cool Beretta recoil-management thing where the barrel rotates.

I guess I'm just weird but I refuse to get a Glock. They're reliable but not for me. FN's are too pricey. Springfields too. And I could never justify paying nearly 1000$ for a 1911.

I'll probably get the PX4 in a .40 for a carry gun and then a cheap 9mm Italian surplus 92S (which can be had for 250$ a piece right now) for goofing off in the yard.

[Red October1984]

Reviving my thread once again to talk about AR's.

I hate the idea of buying an AR. It's completely impractical for anything except target shooting. Without training you aren't realistically going to use one for home defense and you're likely never going to need it in a "Red Dawn" situation nor will you ever realistically use it when the ATF kick down your door to take it from you.

Why pay 1000$ for a target gun? I know they've dropped in price quite a lot recently and if you build one you can have the rifle together for under 500$ if you do it right.

But for the same price you can have a heavier caliber more useful for hunting or a shotgun you can use for home defense.

For years I have opposed the idea of buying an AR just because nobody *needs* one. I can understand wanting one, but I never understood why some people pay so much to get a 5.56/.223 high pressure toothpick launcher.

Until...

I discovered the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. I've been doing a lot of shooting lately. Lot of AR's, and primarily pistols now that I'm getting close to purchasing one. A friend brought up this cartridge and showed me his full rifle 6.5G AR bought for under 500$. I said "Oh no, this is too good to be true. You can't be serious." ...but google says otherwise.

This confused me, seeing as 5.56 is a ridiculous caliber for the hunter and casual shooter I am and 7.62x51 AR's cost well over 900-1000$. How is this intermediate caliber rifle so cheap?

Apparently the only major difference from a 5.56 AR is the BCG, barrel and magazine? And it outperforms 5.56 and shoots flatter than 7.62x51?

I guess I will be buying a pistol AND an AR this year. :oops: Anybody else have experience with the 6.5G? And more importantly....why have I never heard of this caliber until now?

[ikalugin]

why have I never heard of this caliber until now?
It -is- a fairly popular alternative cartidge.

But then i have little need for it, I use 223/243 for recreational shooting and 9.3mm mauser and .300winmag for hunting.

[Red October1984]

It -is- a fairly popular alternative cartidge.

Maybe I've just been living under a rock because of my bias against the AR platform.

But then i have little need for it, I use 223/243 for recreational shooting and 9.3mm mauser and .300winmag for hunting.

I have a .223 bolt action for goofing off with on a budget, but I've been hunting with my Mosin-Nagant and a .30-06 for years.

I guess you do some long range hunting then?

[ikalugin]

Only with the .300winmag, 9.3mm mauser is used for short ranges like 150m. I use 9.3mm mauser because it has good enough ballistics for the ranges most hunting happens on and offers good stopping power without excessive recoil.

[Cybermat47]

The only firearm I've fired so far, the Brno .22 LR. 5 sighting rounds, then 60 rounds 25m downrange with 25% accuracy.

http://www.guns-accessories.com/image/cache/data/Rifle/7%20BRNO%20.22%20LR%2014506-700x500.jpg

[Thomen]

I use a .223/5.56 AR for coyote hunting, when out at night. When out during daylight I either take the AR or a .243 Remington, depending on the stand and weather. :up:

[em2nought]

Look what followed me home last week, a heavy barrel Del-ton 316. I have no wife, so I can keep it. :03:
https://www.wholesalehunter.com/nimages/90212.jpg

[Red October1984]

I use a .223/5.56 AR for coyote hunting, when out at night. When out during daylight I either take the AR or a .243 Remington, depending on the stand and weather. :up:

I originally got my .223 bolt gun for coyotes but then I got busy and never put a scope on it.

Fast forward 4 years later, I have a scope for it now. Just need to get some time and ammo to go get it set up.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Hmm...I need a good firearm. I wish I could use it for self-defense, but the People's Republic of Maryland essentially doesn't issue CCW permits.

[August]

Look what followed me home last week, a heavy barrel Del-ton 316. I have no wife, so I can keep it. :03:
https://www.wholesalehunter.com/nimages/90212.jpg

Sweet. Got any plans for optics?

[em2nought]

Sweet. Got any plans for optics?

I've always been fond of peep sights, for now at least. :03:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0219/5816/products/57_d162247e-71b8-4218-a08d-8864c3db16ce_large.jpeg?v=1436120817

[Red October1984]

I've always been fond of peep sights, for now at least. :03:

https://image.ibb.co/cMdLFv/when_an_old_vet_starts_talking_about_shooting_with _iron_19790506.png (https://imgbb.com/)

[August]

I've always been fond of peep sights, for now at least. :03:


Oh yeah if it's available you should get the type of scope mount that also lets you use the iron sights. My AR has that type of mount but it's the older model with the carrying handle. I'm not sure those new flat top models would give you the clearance but there are literally hundreds of accessories for them so I wouldn't be surprised if somebody made one.

[Red October1984]

Oh yeah if it's available you should get the type of scope mount that also lets you use the iron sights. My AR has that type of mount but it's the older model with the carrying handle. I'm not sure those new flat top models would give you the clearance but there are literally hundreds of accessories for them so I wouldn't be surprised if somebody made one.

You can get offset iron sights that mount at a 45 degree angle so you can mount an optic on top and still have the backup.

Picture (https://k0w4el5u0m-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Samson-Upgrade-Kit.jpg)

I'm not a fan of them myself, I know there are some optics that sit so that you can use flip up irons through the optic when it's turned off or whatever. I'll probably be doing that on the 6.5G AR i'm going to build

[Red October1984]

Alright. I've done it. :haha:

I said for YEARS that I'm not going to own an AR-15 because it costs a lot, it requires a lot of upkeep and cleaning (if you want to trust your life with it at least), and the return on investment isn't that great.

Well, now that parts prices are pretty low....and I'm doing more and more field tactics training and hunting....and now that I'm aware of the 6.5 Grendel cartridge....

I'm starting my AR build this Friday. Picking up an Anderson lower for cheap, got a Magpul MIAD 1.1 grip on the way along with a Brownells lower parts kit. One step at a time over a couple months and I'm planning to have an M110 clone with as much OD Green as I can get on there.

Planning for a 20" barrel, medium range scope, fixed stock, bipod, quad rail etc etc. If i'm gonna do it, I'm gonna build the rifle I want.

The Grendel AR is identical to a regular 5.56 AR with the exception of the magazine, bolt carrier group and barrel.

Should be around a 700$ build pre-optic. Plus or minus a bit for price changes and sales.

I'll try and remember to add pics in this thread as I go. :salute:

[August]

Good luck!

[Red October1984]

So, update on the AR build. It's taken a slightly different turn since I posted last. No quad rail and primarily an Aero Precision build (Ballistic Advantage being an in-house company of Aero)

So far, I have:

Aero Precision "Ghost Gun" lower
Brownells mil-spec LPK
Magpul ODG Enhanced Trigger Guard
Magpul Miad Gen 1.1 grip (ODG)
Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced upper
Aero Precision Enhanced M-Lok handguard
Aero Precision rifle length melonite gas tube with low-pro gas block
Magpul MOE fixed stock assembly (ODG)

Have an ODG mil-spec charging handle coming in the mail, and waiting on payday to order a Ballistic Advantage Premium 20" barrel and a Toolcraft bolt carrier group. The barrel and the bolt carrier will be the 6.5 Grendel specific parts. Sometime in the future, I will be getting a Palmetto State Armory 16" 5.56 upper to use for plinking and SUT training.

Looking at a Primary Arms 1st focal plane mil-dot scope, 2 point sling setup and a bipod. Something I learned pretty quickly is that building an AR is quite the rabbit hole. :haha:

Luckily, I won't be too much over budget. :D Prices are really low right now to get into the AR platform. Also, lots and lots of research has been rewarded by some killer sales. The M4E1 Upper Receiver with handguard is a 300$ combo that I managed 162$ shipped. That upper simplifies the barrel installation and has a matching finish to the Aero lower I ended up ordering.

Putting the lower together was fairly easy. I ended up filing down the very tip of the trigger guard roll pin to a small taper to get it started into the hole. I didn't go out and buy the proper punch set so I used some old ones laying around. Managed to get the whole thing together without any blemishes or scratches. Had to cut a couple coils off of the pivot pin detent spring. Other than those two minor hiccups with the spring and the roll pin, it was straightforward and satisfying.

The Anderson I was originally going to buy had .300 Blackout markings on it so I passed on that and spent a little extra on the "Ghost Gun" lower.

Watch this first for context:
Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0)

.30 Caliber Clip you say? (https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-stripped-lower-ghost.html)

:yeah: :O:

I'll be sure to update with pictures when the rifle is done. On my current income, looking at a working rifle by the middle/end of next month and a 100% fully completed build by second week of December.

[Mr Quatro]

Buying a used AK 47? You will need this of course ... :o

http://russiafeed.com/heres-distinguish-real-russian-ak-47-chinese-copy/

https://cdni.rbth.com/rbthmedia/images/2017.11/original/59f9d9d185600a21115e25bf.png

[Onkel Neal]

Deer season is here, and with it, a new rifle, one I have wanted for 30 years. Winchester Model 70 in .270

[Thomen]

My newest acquisition:

Marlin 1895 G in 45-70 Gov

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22046736_1109007872566777_6318261009815955989_n.jp g?oh=c05b1e79ecc26e4e837844e68e9397f7&oe=5AB0238D

[Aktungbby]

^ Nice! I still shoot an original trapdoor Springfield 1873 and Shiloh Sharps Cavalry carbine in 45-70.( the only round I reload actually) My only lever-action is a Henry 'goldenboy' in .44 magnum.:yeah: https://decg5lu73tfmh.cloudfront.net/gunvaluesboard.com/images/fbfiles/images/IMG_1769_v_1424644208.JPG

[mako88sb]

I haven't owned a firearm in decades but I've become hooked on this guy's videos. Here are some interesting ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQpMpWYefyw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-S_horZGk
with a correction video regarding the accuracy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUd2RQGfL7E

and he also has some videos from action matches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw3eKWvDGqQ

[Platapus]

Deer season is here, and with it, a new rifle, one I have wanted for 30 years. Winchester Model 70 in .270

The .270 is a sweet round.:up:

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, and with the cold weather coming in, I will be in the deer blind this evening :)

My next firearm will be a lever action. I have an old Winchester left to me by my grandfather, but I want to preserve it. I'm going for something like this, just tell me this ain't the most beautiful rifle :)

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/sites/default/files/styles/mar_catalog_product/public/336C_0.png?itok=V1W2vWFB

Of course, I will have to wait until this spring to cough up the money, if I get a tax return.

[August]

Yeah, and with the cold weather coming in, I will be in the deer blind this evening :)

My next firearm will be a lever action. I have an old Winchester left to me by my grandfather, but I want to preserve it. I'm going for something like this, just tell me this ain't the most beautiful rifle :)

Of course, I will have to wait until this spring to cough up the money, if I get a tax return.

A buddy of mine has one, very sharp looking!

[Mr Quatro]

Good to go if you have the proper permit that is ...

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/p306x306/14750937_6057925451004_6259834754254766080_n.png?o h=277515ac16add4fbe3f40028240c1b80&oe=5A65EF49

[Commander Wallace]

Good to go if you have the proper permit that is ...

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/p306x306/14750937_6057925451004_6259834754254766080_n.png?o h=277515ac16add4fbe3f40028240c1b80&oe=5A65EF49


Excuse me. That's not a gun, that's a cannon. :03:

[August]

Not something easily concealed in t-shirt weather that's for sure. :)

[Schroeder]

This is my self defense equipment:
A Umarex build Walther P22 in 9mm PAK.
https://s6.postimg.org/ytsaityc1/WP_20171111_11_30_16_Pro.jpg

https://s6.postimg.org/rdt0x0nhd/WP_20171111_11_30_30_Pro.jpg
What the hell is 9mm PAK you ask? It's a blank cartridge caliber but it shoots more than just blanks. Mine is loaded with CS and Pepper.
How effective is that? See for yourself (and this guy was prepared for it):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f85BSEv7OAs
(It can't be rinsed off with water that's why they have to use milk, or anything else that contains fat)
That's all in terms of firearms I'm allowed to carry here and even for those you need a permit.

I don't think one really needs to carry one here in Germany but being the depressed guy full of self doubt and an inferiority complex that I am I think it feels good to have an option in your waist band if push comes to shove.:yep:

[Red October1984]

When I finish my AR build I'm going to buy a pistol. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Looking at Walther, HK and Sig

[Onkel Neal]

This is my self defense equipment:
A Umarex build Walther P22 in 9mm PAK.

That's all in terms of firearms I'm allowed to carry here and even for those you need a permit.

I don't think one really needs to carry one here in Germany but being the depressed guy full of self doubt and an inferiority complex that I am I think it feels good to have an option in your waist band if push comes to shove.:yep:

That will do the job, that's for sure. I don't think it's a good idea to shoot a friend in the face with it, though, seems kinda dangerous....

There's not really a need to carry a firearm in the US either, as long as you avoid the inner cities. The odds of encountering a criminal are super low...

[kenmoik]

New shooter here. Just bought a Ruger rifle. I was looking for the best air rifle on the market (https://totalguide.org/best-air-rifle/). I found that website and they are recommending ruger rifle. Thus, bought ruger. But, I have not any experience about the rifle. I should join this forum before buying that rifle. However, looking forward to learn about shooting and hunting tricks from this forum members.

[Aktungbby]

kenmoik!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Red October1984]

New shooter here. Just bought a Ruger rifle.

Congrats! You'll find yourself wanting another rifle....and then another....and then a pistol....and then you'll need a shotgun....

:D:D

Enjoy!

[Platapus]

My next firearm will be a lever action. I have an old Winchester left to me by my grandfather, but I want to preserve it. I'm going for something like this, just tell me this ain't the most beautiful rifle :)

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/sites/default/files/styles/mar_catalog_product/public/336C_0.png?itok=V1W2vWFB

.

There is something classic about how some of those lever actions look. If I were into rifles, I would be looking at some of these lever actions too.

[Onkel Neal]

Went pig hunting this afternoon. After several hours of looking, found a medium sounder,
messing around a waterhole. I spotted some about 140 yds off.


I made my way in her direction, keeping those trees between us. But, after making up half the distance,
I walked up on two young boars about 35 feet away. One was merrily chowing down on some acorns,
the other was standing there looking at me, trying to decide whether to charge or run.

Then the Windsucker spoke.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=2991&d=1582388596

This little fellow will make fine pork chops!

[August]

Congratulations! :salute:

[Red October1984]

This little fellow will make fine pork chops!

Let us know how the meat tastes. I've been thinking of going out to get one myself. Southern Missouri has them moving in to the point where we can shoot them. Dept. of Conservation wants them out too so it's open season (last I checked at least).

[Gerald]

open season

How long is it allowed to shoot on this species?

[Sailor Steve]

Neal, it's so terrible of you to murder helpless animals! You should buy your meat at the store, where no animals are harmed!

But seriously (or not), I read on FaceBook that some idiot actually posted something like that.

Extra seriously, I hope the chops are good. :sunny:

[Aktungbby]

How long is it allowed to shoot on this species?
Actually feral pig hunting at least in CA is akin to pest control as depredating feral hogs can cause a lot of damage to croplands and domestic stock. Texas is home to the largest feral hog population in the United States, with an estimated 2.6 million hogs statewide. Hunting Licenses:

Resident: A general hunting license is needed to hunt on public land, and can be purchased for $25. No license is needed for depredating feral hogs, if a landowner (resident or non-resident) or landowner’s agent or lessee is taking feral hogs causing depredation on the landowner’s land. Otherwise, a hunting license and the landowner’s permission is required on private land.
Non Resident: A general hunting license is needed to hunt on public land, and can be purchased for $315. No license is needed for depredating feral hogs, if a landowner (resident or non-resident) or landowner’s agent or lessee is taking feral hogs causing depredation on the landowner’s land. Otherwise, a hunting license and the landowner’s permission is required on private land.


Hog Hunting Season: There are no seasons; feral hogs may be taken year-round.
Night Hunting: Night hunting with a spotlight is allowed on private land, but the local game warden must be notified beforehand. There are certain laws which prohibit using artificial light where deer are known to range.
Baiting: Yes
Limit:No bag limit CA's is a little more stringent accounting-wise; but again there is no bag limit:
Hunting Licenses:

Resident: Residents must have a valid hunting license, which can be purchased annually for $47.01, as well as a wild pig license tag, which can be purchased for $22.42.
Non Resident: Non-residents must have a valid hunting license, which can be purchased for $163.65 annually, for $47.01 for 2-day license, or for $22.42 for a 1-day license, as well as a non-resident wild pig license tag, which can be purchased for $77.34


Hog Hunting Season: All residents and non-residents hunting feral hogs must have a wild pig license tag. Upon the killing of any pig, the tag holder shall immediately fill out all portions of the tag including the report card completely, legibly, and permanently, and cut out or punch out and completely remove notches or punch holes for the month and date of the kill. The pig license tag shall be attached to the carcass of the wild pig. The report card portion shall be immediately returned to the department.
Night Hunting: General Season
Baiting: Feral hog hunting must take place one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset.
Limit: No

[Jimbuna]

I'm looking at your gun and thinking to myself "Wyatt Earp, he's still alive"! :o

[em2nought]

Look what came to Thanksgiving and decided to stay. :up:
https://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Smith-Wesson-MP45-20-4-600x450.jpg?c4183f

[Red October1984]

How long is it allowed to shoot on this species?

As Aktung said, it's essentially pest control.

Actually feral pig hunting at least in CA is akin to pest control as depredating feral hogs can cause a lot of damage to croplands and domestic stock.

Wild Hogs will ruin land and kill livestock and when they come to areas and start multiplying, they need to be contained or they'll tear up everything.

Missouri Dept. of Conservation states that a group of 10 wild hogs can ruin between 20 and 30 acres of land in a night. They also spread diseases.

They're not at the hunting level state-wide (contrary to what I originally thought), but I believe certain areas down here will allow some hog hunting.


The other pest that needs controlling is Coyotes. If you don't keep your smaller livestock or pets safe at night, you may be missing a few here and there after a while.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, wild pigs are the only thing I'll shoot (other than deer in season). They are ubiquitous.

[August]

$312 for a non resident hunting license to hunt on private land? Well I know what I won't be doing when I go down there.

[Jimbuna]

$312 for a non resident hunting license to hunt on private land? Well I know what I won't be doing when I go down there.

Cheaper going to the local meat store :)

[Onkel Neal]

$312 for a non resident hunting license to hunt on private land? Well I know what I won't be doing when I go down there.

No license is needed for depredating feral hogs, if a landowner (resident or non-resident) or landowner’s agent or lessee is taking feral hogs causing depredation on the landowner’s land.

Just gotta know the right people. :ping:

[Red October1984]

All the parts are in and in the process of being installed. Should have a range report on the new AR-15 6.5 Grendel DMR by next week.

Been several months, one piece at a time, but i've finally got everything.

Parts list


Aero Precision Ghost Gun Lower
Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced Upper
A P Enhanced M-Lok Handguard 15"
A P Low Profile Gas Block
A P Melonite gas tube, rifle length
Brownells Mil-Spec Lower Parts Kit
Magpul MIAD 1.1 grip (ODG)
Magpul MOE Fixed Rifle Stock (ODG)
Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard (ODG)
(Generic buffer assembly, bought used off a friend)
Toolcraft bolt carrier group
Republic Firearms Cerakote ODG Mil-Spec charging handle*
Cheap knock-off "Magpul" flip up iron sights until my good ones come in the mail
Ballistic Advantage Premium series 20" HBAR stainless barrel
VG6 Precision 65 muzzle brake
1x ASC 25 rd magazine (Prob gonna go with the Alexander Arms E-Landers)


Waiting on Daniel Defense fixed iron sights. Going to use those for a while since a proper scope really isnt in the budget.

Magpul MS4 sling is in the mail. The handguard and stock have quick-detach sockets built in so that'll be a pretty sweet hybrid sling setup.

Also determining what bipod I want to go with. The stainless HBAR barrel leaves the gun pretty front-heavy. It's not going to be very comfortable to fire unsupported or on the move.

*Republic sent me a faulty charging handle and is going to replace it. Will probably upgrade later on to a BCM Gunfighter or a Raptor-LT.


Upper is at the gunsmith getting properly torqued right now. I'd have done it myself, but do not have access to the tools anymore and for the cost of the tools, i could have paid the gunsmith three times what he's charging me to install/torque/test fire.

Off to the range (backyard :D ) over New Year's hopefully for the barrel break-in! Once the barrel is broken in, I'll have my nice iron sights and will be able to start doing some serious shooting. Going to work and save up for a proper rifle scope later on to take the rifle out hunting/long distance.

[Mr Quatro]

Kel-Tec Sub 2000 fold up 9mm rifle this is the Beretta 92 Magazine Configuration

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26114142_1501816963259591_5823472341739623204_n.jp g?oh=26f2bd8731beb92c80653530f5c5df51&oe=5ABF5AF5

two kinds of people own guns good and bad ... I'm good :up:

[komi]

Hope it's ok to ask this here, but a buddy of mine is interested in some WW2 vintage shooting and I'm looking for recommendations on a carbine-sized rifle from that era that I could join in with one day. I'm not a big guy at all (think of typical ARVN soldier size) so compactness and reasonably light recoil are a priority for me. A big bonus would be if it could also mount a scope fairly easily. Also it would be preferable (to avoid any potential legal hurdles where I live) if it had a mag capacity of less than 10 rounds.

Any of the firearms experts here have suggestions for something that fits this and is reasonably available on the market these days? :)

[August]

Hope it's ok to ask this here, but a buddy of mine is interested in some WW2 vintage shooting and I'm looking for recommendations on a carbine-sized rifle from that era that I could join in with one day. I'm not a big guy at all (think of typical ARVN soldier size) so compactness and reasonably light recoil are a priority for me. A big bonus would be if it could also mount a scope fairly easily. Also it would be preferable (to avoid any potential legal hurdles where I live) if it had a mag capacity of less than 10 rounds.

Any of the firearms experts here have suggestions for something that fits this and is reasonably available on the market these days? :)

I don't claim to be an expert but you probably want to look at an M1 Carbine. US made army surplus and you can get 10 round mags for it fairly cheaply.

[komi]

I don't claim to be an expert but you probably want to look at an M1 Carbine. US made army surplus and you can get 10 round mags for it fairly cheaply.

They had come up on my radar, wasn't aware they made 10 round mags for them though. Thanks for the suggestion. Given it's a semi-auto I would have to first check that it's not a restricted weapon where I live. Bolt-actions are far safer option where I am.

[em2nought]

There are reproduction M1s so you don't have to shoot an antique. https://www.classicfirearms.com/auto-ordnance-m1-carbine-30car-rifle-aom140

[komi]

There are reproduction M1s so you don't have to shoot an antique. https://www.classicfirearms.com/auto-ordnance-m1-carbine-30car-rifle-aom140

Thanks, unfortunately that link is giving me a 403 error, whatever that means...

By the way I just checked and it looks like M1 carbines (as semi-auto centrefires) are on the restricted list where I live, which means I could hypothetically get one but it would require extra paperwork and cost. Recon I'll have to pass on those, thanks though for the suggestion. Hope I didn't waste your time guys, I should have mentioned bolt-actions were a much safer bet for me...

[em2nought]

Thanks, unfortunately that link is giving me a 403 error, whatever that means...

By the way I just checked and it looks like M1 carbines (as semi-auto centrefires) are on the restricted list where I live, which means I could hypothetically get one but it would require extra paperwork and cost. Recon I'll have to pass on those, thanks though for the suggestion. Gonna have to keep looking...

try https://www.classicfirearms.com/ and search m1 carbine on their website

[August]

Thanks, unfortunately that link is giving me a 403 error, whatever that means...

By the way I just checked and it looks like M1 carbines (as semi-auto centrefires) are on the restricted list where I live, which means I could hypothetically get one but it would require extra paperwork and cost. Recon I'll have to pass on those, thanks though for the suggestion. Hope I didn't waste your time guys, I should have mentioned bolt-actions were a much safer bet for me...

Then you might be looking at a German Mauser K98 bolt action rifle then unless you want to go with a standard USA M1 Garand (if you do check out the Civilian Marksmanship Program). There is also a shorter version of the Mauser called a G33/40 but it'll be pricey because it is so rare.

The Mausers

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/MM-0215-1.jpg


M1 Garand and M1 Carbine

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8347/9752573_1.jpg?v=8CD1F456366E480

[August]

BTW where are you from Komi?

[komi]

Then you might be looking at a German Mauser K98 bolt action rifle then unless you want to go with a standard USA M1 Garand (if you do check out the Civilian Marksmanship Program). There is also a shorter version of the Mauser called a G33/40 but it'll be pricey because it is so rare.

K98's have been up for consideration as well if there was an actual carbine version available. Actually I wouldn't be averse to any Mauser-type carbines from the first half of the 20th century as long as they fit the basic requirements I mentioned...

M1 Garand and M1 Carbine

As far as I know Garands are restricted for the same reason as the M1 Carbines. Besides they're not really the short-rifle/carbine types I was looking for. Thanks though.

BTW where are you from Komi?

Long story :P Living in an EU country at the moment.

[em2nought]

Search for a Spanish FR8 from very close to the first half of the century, that's what I'd get under your parameters.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8203/8218909908_313a230036_b.jpg

[komi]

Search for a Spanish FR8 from very close to the first half of the century, that's what I'd get under your parameters.


Never heard of them, I'll have a look. Thanks.

[Onkel Neal]

Does it have to be a vintage rifle or will a modern equivalent work?
RUGER SCOUT RIFLE
(https://ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/specSheets/6824.html)

https://youtu.be/0kDWaXxtCwI?t=25

[komi]

Does it have to be a vintage rifle or will a modern equivalent work?
RUGER SCOUT RIFLE
(https://ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/specSheets/6824.html)

https://youtu.be/0kDWaXxtCwI?t=25

Well my friend was more in to vintage models for the sake of it, so if I wanted to 'fit in' at the meets I'd probably need something like that (even if a repro). But to be honest as long as I'm here I'm up for suggestions on a modern derivative to use on my own. I need to pick up a decent recreational shooter one of these days ;) Been using rented ones at the moment...

[August]

Long story :P Living in an EU country at the moment.

You should have been a little more upfront with that. Whole different world over there when it comes to firearms.

[komi]

You should have been a little more upfront with that. Whole different world over there when it comes to firearms.

Didn't realise people would automatically assume I was American ;)

[em2nought]

Never heard of them, I'll have a look. Thanks.
They're Mausers rebarreled for .308. They were a sort of stop gap until Spain's Cetme versions of the German G3s got into full production. You'll probably want a nice cushion on the end of the buttstock though. :03:

[Mr Quatro]

I heard from a friend that the most feared a weapon in Iraq was a recoilless 12 gauge shotgun ... so I looked it up.

Yep, it looks awesome and they even say that it never needs cleaning.

The Auto Assault-12 (AA-12) is an automatic 12-gauge shotgun that can fire 300 rounds per minute and is recoilless. Basically, it's incredibly powerful

We take a look inside the AA-12 machinegun (full auto shotgun)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3a-2mzEgYw

[Murph89]

I figured many here will get a kick out of this; Here's my US Model of 1917 .30-06. Its in really excellent shape for an almost 100 year old rifle.https://i.imgur.com/9nSq36y.jpg

[komi]

I figured many here will get a kick out of this; Here's my US Model of 1917 .30-06. Its in really excellent shape for an almost 100 year old rifle.

Nice. All matching components?

[Murph89]

Unfortunately no. The receiver and barrel is Winchester and some of the smaller components are Remington. Still, its a very solid rifle and kicks like a mule!

[Red October1984]

Mosin Nagant M91/30's can be had very cheap and are great shooters. Easily one of my favorite rifles ever made.


------

Little bit late, but the gunsmith took their sweet time torquing my upper receiver.

Took the Grendel out in the yard for the break-in procedure and went to test some cheap airsoft iron sights I had lying around :haha:

Rifle ran perfectly. I have a VG6 Precision GAMMA 65 muzzle brake on the end and there was nearly zero felt recoil and zero muzzle rise. Towards the end of the break-in, I was putting multiple rounds down with minimal adjustment for recoil.

ASC 25 round mag ran without any stops, brass and steel case. Lot of times I see reviews online of the ASC mags that are questionable but I didn't see any issues so far. I see a lot of stuff out there about people having issues with steel case ammo but the rifle took it like a champ and asked for seconds.

Set up the airsoft sights at mechanical zero and it was dead center, but a foot too high. So went to adjust them and got it down to 6 inches high, but then the front sight pin snapped off. :haha::haha: Cheap airsoft sights work great, until you try to get them dead on i guess.

In the market for an optic or iron sights now. Leaning toward some fixed iron sights (Not made of plastic this time).


Overall, I'm extremely happy with the performance of the build so far. It's satisfying to go from a stripped lower to a functioning rifle. Will update with pictures soon.

[em2nought]

Unfortunately no. The receiver and barrel is Winchester and some of the smaller components are Remington. Still, its a very solid rifle and kicks like a mule!

Maybe you should be Alvin York instead of Audie Murph89. :03:

[Aktungbby]

:sign_yeah: Throughout the film, Sergeant York, York is seen using the M1903 Springfield (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield), http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/7/74/M1903Mark1.jpg/450px-M1903Mark1.jpg (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:M1903Mark1.jpg) which was the standard issue rifle of US forces during WWI.http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/a/a6/SY_5.jpg/500px-SY_5.jpg (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:SY_5.jpg) However, in reality, York was issued a 1917 Enfield rifle (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield) http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/fc/M1917enfield.jpg/799px-M1917enfield.jpg (http://www.imfdb.org/images/f/fc/M1917enfield.jpg)When the United States entered World War I in 1917, the M1903 Springfield (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield) was the standard-issue battle rifle of the US Army and US Marine Corps. However, only 840,000 had been produced, and the United States desperately needed an alternative to arm the American Expeditionary Force. The Pattern 14 rifle, then in production for the British Army, was found to be easily converted to the US .30-06 service cartridge. All production of the P14 was ceased, and Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone began manufacturing the new U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1917. From 1917-1918, 2,193,429 rifles were produced, far outnumbering M1903 production. By the end of the war, roughly 75% of the American Expeditionary Force was armed with the M1917. Like the British troops, American soldiers disliked the rifle for its length and weight; with its 17" bayonet it was usually taller than the man carrying it. Additionally a little cinematic 'poetic license' was incorporated into the film: In the Argonne Campaign, York actually carried a Model 1911 .45 caliber APC semi-automatic pistol, the same one those who served in the U.S. Army, or Marines remember firing in training. The problem was that Hawks could not find any .45 caliber APC blank ammunition when it came time to film the battle scenes for "Sergeant York". So Gary Cooper used the 9mm Luger instead. http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/6/62/SY_17.jpg/500px-SY_17.jpg (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:SY_17.jpg)atleast the artist, Frank Schoonover, got it right with a 1911 Colthttp://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/fc/COLTM1911_1913.jpg/300px-COLTM1911_1913.jpg (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:COLTM1911_1913.jpg) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Alvin_C_York_Painting.jpg/1024px-Alvin_C_York_Painting.jpg

[Murph89]

:yep: Yes the 1903 Springfield was mainly used stateside and by early arriving units. It wasn't long after arriving to the front that doughboys either had the model 1917 or British Enfield's, depending on unit and AO.

[Rockstar]

Its IN! My Hatsan 135 .30 caliber Carnivore arrived today! Hopefully I didn't make a mistake, that I'm grown-up enough to take care of the beautiful walnut stock. Really thought about the synthetic but wanted something sophisticated.

Chose the .30 caliber just because its the largest caliber available in a break barrel. Chose a break barrel because of its self sufficiency. Very suited for small to medium sized game inside 25 yards. Got a tin of 44.75 grain Predator Polymags cant wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f5GeApxPQc

[Jeff-Groves]

More suited for my Air Gun thread.
:D

However! Being a BIG Hatsan Fan myself?
Congrats!! You have a very nice, hard hitting, Gun there!
(Not the video. I've seen that before)

When you want to learn more?
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org

I promise, as a Moderator there, I won't hold Subsim against you.
:up:

[Rockstar]

Oh, oh did you say a 'gateway' to airguns? Sounds like if I'm not careful I could develop an addiction. :o:03:

[Mr Quatro]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Title_Image-920x324.jpg

The SAP-6 shotgun is a magazine-fed short-barrel shotgun manufactured by Dagger in Turkey and imported to Canada by Tactical Imports.

[August]

.12ga? That can lay down a whole lotta hurt if you can hang on to it!

[Red October1984]

Been out of this thread for a while, but figured I'd drop back in.

Couple months ago I picked up an HK USP45 to carry and it's been an absolute dream. .45ACP might be a little slow, but damn if it ain't an accurate gun that packs a punch and will never fail on me. Plus, it's SUPER cheap to reload for.

Had about 1000rds through my 6.5 Grendel at this point and definitely no regrets on the build. Since last time, it's gotten a LaRue MBT trigger, bipod and it's in the process of getting a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x

Trying to decide on what my next "project" will be. Personally I would love to find a proper Enfield rifle but at the same time I'm thinking of building a competition Glock/AR setup to get into 3-Gun competitions.

[August]

I love America!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?=49&v=QcoeUr61NPU

[Red October1984]

Weird request, but since there's a worldwide community here, I figure I might try.

Does anybody have a source for a Romanian AIMS-74 22mm Muzzle Brake?

:hmmm: Can't seem to find one these days.

[August]

AK-74 parts don't fit?

[Red October1984]

AK-74 parts don't fit?

The standard AK-74 brakes are 24mm, but for some reason the Romanians used a smaller diameter barrel and a smaller diameter threaded sight block. So I need to find a 22mm one. :doh:

I've got the 22mm sight block (which was a pain to find) coming in tomorrow, I just need the brake now.

[August]

The standard AK-74 brakes are 24mm, but for some reason the Romanians used a smaller diameter barrel and a smaller diameter threaded sight block. So I need to find a 22mm one. :doh:

I've got the 22mm sight block (which was a pain to find) coming in tomorrow, I just need the brake now.


Bummer. I will keep my eye out for you.

[MaDef]

https://www.apexgunparts.com/romanian-aim-74-muzzle-brake-chrome-lined-nos.html

[Red October1984]

https://www.apexgunparts.com/romanian-aim-74-muzzle-brake-chrome-lined-nos.html

This is the one, yes. But out of stock :doh:

I've got the matching sight base that it threads onto, but just need to find one of these little pukes.

[Onkel Neal]

My new concealed carry firearm, Sig Sauer P365. It's a micro-compact 9mm, holds 10+1, which is 3 more than my previous favorite, the Ruger LC9, but the same size package. Plus it has a manual safety, something I want.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/first-look-sig-sauer-p365/247843

https://files.osgnetworks.tv/2/files/2018/01/SIG_Sauer_P365_4.jpg

https://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2018/01/SIG_Sauer_P365_6.jpg

https://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2018/01/SIG_Sauer_P365_2.jpg

[em2nought]

Sig has such nice machining it's kind of a shame for them to make a plastic pistol.

[Onkel Neal]

Every day carry, man, I want it as light as possible.

[Onkel Neal]

Every day carry, man, I want it as light as possible.

https://youtu.be/dOxi4CYZblQ?t=21

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Every day carry, man, I want it as light as possible.

https://youtu.be/dOxi4CYZblQ?t=21

Living in the People's Republic of Maryland, I can't really have a concealed weapon :C

Also, not really allowed to defend myself nor my property, either :C

[Red October1984]

Sig has such nice machining it's kind of a shame for them to make a plastic pistol.


I mean, there's nothing wrong with a properly made poly gun. I prefer all-steel but my EDC goes between a USP45 and a P2000 so mine aren't necessarily light even though they're polymer frame guns as well.


Sig had some QC issues with the 365 that look to be largely solved by now, but I really like the 365. If I didn't have monster-sized hands I wouldn't mind getting one.


Living in the People's Republic of Maryland, I can't really have a concealed weapon :C

Also, not really allowed to defend myself nor my property, either :C


We have plenty of space and freedom out here in Missouri, my man. :arrgh!:

[nikimcbee]

I just bought my first pistol, a Ruger Wrangler for target shootin'.

[Aktungbby]

mind the angle of the dangle on yer Wrangle's slippery single action BBY :timeout: ya don't wanna go off... half-cocked :O:sodaspeke:yep:

[Onkel Neal]

I just bought my first pistol, a Ruger Wrangler for target shootin'.


Nice, I love them Ruger single actions. Which finish did you get?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssr08sY9HVU

[Mr Quatro]

I like a pistol grip that will match my fingers ... I have a small hand and in a real fire fight your hand can be a little shaky (especially if it's wet lol)

Nighthawk Custom Korth NXR .44 Mag. Revolver

https://assets.americanhunter.org/media/1999810/nighthawkcustomkorthnxr_lead.jpg?preset=list720

Technical Specifications:
• Finish: DLC Coated
• Caliber: .44 Magnum
• Weight (Empty): 3.05 lbs.
• Barrel Length: 6"
• Overall Length: 11.65"
• Width: 1.72"
• Height: 6.38"
• Cylinder Capacity: 6
• Barrel: 416R

[Onkel Neal]

Nice! I like that finish.

[Commander Wallace]

I like a pistol grip that will match my fingers ... I have a small hand and in a real fire fight your hand can be a little shaky (especially if it's wet lol)

Nighthawk Custom Korth NXR .44 Mag. Revolver

https://assets.americanhunter.org/media/1999810/nighthawkcustomkorthnxr_lead.jpg?preset=list720

Technical Specifications:
• Finish: DLC Coated
• Caliber: .44 Magnum
• Weight (Empty): 3.05 lbs.
• Barrel Length: 6"
• Overall Length: 11.65"
• Width: 1.72"
• Height: 6.38"
• Cylinder Capacity: 6
• Barrel: 416R


Is that your gun ? I'm not sure if you saw the title of this thread. This is a gun thread. What you brought is a canon.:yep:

A friend has a 44. Ruger Redhawk. Your gun looks more menacing. :yep:

[nikimcbee]

Nice, I love them Ruger single actions. Which finish did you get?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssr08sY9HVU

It was the last one they had, the silver/gray finish. I love it! It's really fun to shoot.

[Rockstar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=125&v=0ieIJwGWhHs&feature=emb_logo

[Red October1984]

Those little lever guns are a lot of fun.

The NFA is stupid. :doh:

[Aktungbby]

Those little lever guns are a lot of fun.

The NFA is stupid. :doh:Steve Mcqueen sure thought so!:O: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Puma_left_side_on_top_holster.jpg< THE 'MARE'S LEG' WEAPON HE WORE ON TV'S WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE SERIES- I LOVED THAT SHOW...AND THE GUN!!:D https://metvcdn.metv.com/kHm6l-1458832611-2815-list_items-mcqueen_maresleg.png:yeah: https://metvcdn.metv.com/nHZvk-1458832624-2816-list_items-mcqueen_henryguns.png

[MaDef]

Those little lever guns are a lot of fun.

so are their bigger brothers.
I acquired a 1948 Marlin 336A .30-.30 sport carbine Last week

[Red October1984]

so are their bigger brothers.
I acquired a 1948 Marlin 336A .30-.30 sport carbine Last week

Those old Marlins are nice finds.

I'm holding out for a nice 1895 .45-70 one of these days but since I don't have much of a practical use for a caliber that big I'm more focused on training and developing with what I have.

[Mr Quatro]

Is that your gun ? I'm not sure if you saw the title of this thread. This is a gun thread. What you brought is a canon.:yep:

A friend has a 44. Ruger Redhawk. Your gun looks more menacing. :yep:

No, I want one though in fact I want a lot of things, but I only have one gun a Taurus 44 special 5 shot with a five (5) pound trigger. Having one gun has it's advantages.

When I go out I hide it and don't have to worry about a break in to lose it.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.1GzEGvvYShXl_JUG61XRAgHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&w=231&h=174

When I bought it some 20 years ago it was only $350 after waiting the prescribed length of time to make sure I wasn't going to kill my ex-wife (not a bad idea though)
I asked where was the saftey and the gun man said, "Try to pull the trigger"

It was hard to pull with the 5 lb pull giving you time to think it over :yep:

The gun I posted has a 2lb trigger (but you can probably adjust it)

[Red October1984]

For some reason I can't get the image to link in here properly, so I'll just drop the link to where it already exists.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ak47/comments/f585po/finally_got_the_sar2_set_up_the_way_i_wanted_ft/


This is my SAR-2/AIMS-74/Md.86 thing that I was finally able to find the proper conversion sight base and muzzle brake for.



It started life as a regular ban-era AK in almost-new condition with basic wood furniture and nothing fancy. It may not be what the purists like, but I had grown up shooting basic AK's and wanted something different. Plan is to start entering competitions and training classes with this rifle and my USP45.


I mentioned a rifle as part of my camping kit in the Doomsday Prepper thread and this is said rifle lol. Also, bonus Makarov that I recently acquired.



What I Did:


Front Sight Base conversion from non threaded to threaded
Correct 22mm AIMS-74 muzzle device
Bakelite bayonet (not pictured)
TDI Arms M-Lok handguard
BCM Gunfighter stubby foregrip
Khyber Customs "cheese grater" upper handguard
Streamlight ProTac HLX 1000 lumen weapon light
ALG AKT trigger
RS Regulate AKOG optic mount
Primary Arms 3x ACSS optic
Magpul K2 grip
Magpul Zhukov folding stock
Magpul MS4 double/single point sling
Picked up some Tula Plum magazines to go with my Bakelites

[Rockstar]

I ordered another 2019 Uberti .44 Remington New Model Army percussion pistol from Dixie Gun Works a few months back. And I just got my .45 Colt conversion cylinder in for it today from Taylor & Co.. Has an 8 Inch barrel and the whole damn thing weighs something like 3.5 pounds its a heavy ol' cus.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49799438372_b6d2221ff7_z.jpg


To the right is the original percussion cylinder nipples up that you cap with primers. On the left is the new R&D Taylor & Co. .45 Colt conversion cylinder, you can see in place of the primer nipples is a ring of firing pins. Very nice fit no end shake at all and a perfect clearance between the cylinder and the forcing cone.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49799083771_9b8989d6c2_z.jpg


After the Civil War many of these Remingtons percussion cylinders were being converted to .46 cal 5 shot rimfire cartridges. The one I have though not an exact replica, the concept is the same. To load you have to remove the cylinder from the frame like Preacher did on Pale Rider. Take the firing pin cap off, load five, line up the guide pin and put the cap back on. Insert the cylinder into the frame and for safety sake CAREFULLY and GENTLY guide the hammer to rest on the empty cylinder.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49798532758_c41d97eb17_z.jpg


The Uberti frame is proofed to C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) max average cylinder pressures of 14,000 psi which is compulsory by law. The new cylinder is certified to SAMMI recommendations of max average of 14,000 psi cylinder pressure.

I'll be shooting as a max load a .45 colt RFNL 255 grain bullet at 860 Feet Per Second. Which on paper, will produce a chamber pressure of 12,148 PSI and 410 Foot Pound muzzle energy. That's no slouch or mouse load. But its certainly no where near what more modern plus P ammo or Magnums can do. However, the load is about spot on for what these pistols were designed to do back in the day. When it was considered throughout the 1860's and 70' the most powerful hand gun in the world.


Since the conversion cylinder is classified as a 'part' and a black powder percussion pistol is not a regulated firearm. If they are purchased and shipped separately no FFL transfer is required, everything can be ordered through the internet. BUT! once the percussion pistol is in your possession you are required to follow your States carry laws. If you convert it to a cartridge cylinder like I did it is now considered a regulated firearm and must comply with State, Federal FFL transfer compliance laws.

[Mr Quatro]

That's a nice gun Rockstar (how much did it set you back) (don't make me look it up) :D

Can your new gun use hollow point bullets?

I only like hollow point's due to what an old Army man, that won the bronze star in Vietnam, told me one time, "Never shoot to maim" "Always shoot to kill"

Hollow points go in small and come out big :o

[Rockstar]

The only thing you cannot shoot through this pistol is jacketed bullets. I think Federal makes lead hollow points but I really dont see the need for them. Considering this pistol was designed to hurl just a simple lead ball to kill charging horses and cavalrymen. Round Flat Nose Lead bullet will do just fine for any personal defense needs you might have. Even a lighter load at 750 Feet per second will probably generate somewhere in the realm of 290 foot pound at the muzzle is more than enough.


Oh and the pistol set me back $315.00 and the conversion cylinder $240.00. Added it up its about the same price of a Remington factory conversion. But you dont have to deal with a FFL transfer.

[Commander Wallace]

The only thing you cannot shoot through this pistol is jacketed bullets. I think Federal makes lead hollow points but I really dont see the need for them. Considering this pistol was designed to hurl just a simple lead to kill charging horses and cavalrymen. Round Flat Nose Lead bullets will do just fine for any personal defense needs you might have.

Oh and the pistol set me back $315.00 and the conversion cylinder $240.00. Added it up its about the same price of a Remington factory conversion. But you dont have to deal with a FFL transfer.

I just pulled up the website for these pistols. In your opinion, are they well made ? They look like something from the spaghetti Westerns that Clint Eastwood acted in. I like them.:yep:

Something of interest I came across a while ago. A reproduction Nazi Sturmgewehr 44 (StG 44) chambered for 22. caliber. These rifles are made in Germany and imported by American Tactical Imports.

Quote: This rifle strikes an enjoyable balance between a historically accurate replica rifle and a fun plinking .22. The accuracy and reliability are much better than one might expect to see in a novelty gun. It's not easy to construct a rifle that looks like one design, while functioning like another, but GSG did a good job with this model. So grab a bulk box of .22 rounds and a sack of snacks, and head out to spend an afternoon mounting a successful skirmish along the tin can front with the GSG Schmeisser StG 44.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/4/17/gsg-schmeisser-stg-44-22-long-rifle-semi-auto/

https://www.gsg-waffen.com/


https://assets.americanrifleman.org/wp-content/uploads/Webcontent/images/2013-4/2013417122951-ati_stg-44_001_f.jpg?preset=list720

[Mr Quatro]

The only thing you cannot shoot through this pistol is jacketed bullets. I think Federal makes lead hollow points but I really dont see the need for them. Considering this pistol was designed to hurl just a simple lead to kill charging horses and cavalrymen. Round Flat Nose Lead bullets will do just fine for any personal defense needs you might have. Even a lighter load at 750 Feet per second will probably generate somewhere in the realm of 290 foot pound at the muzzle is more than enough.


Oh and the pistol set me back $315.00 and the conversion cylinder $240.00. Added it up its about the same price of a Remington factory conversion. But you dont have to deal with a FFL transfer.

Looks more expensive than that, uh? Good price, but why the conversion from 44 to 45? Why not just keep the 44 cylinder?

[Rockstar]

I just pulled up the website for these pistols. In your opinion, are they well made ? They look like something from the spaghetti Westerns that Clint Eastwood acted in. I like them.:yep:

Something of interest I came across a while ago. A reproduction Nazi Sturmgewehr 44 (StG 44) chambered for 22. caliber. These rifles are made in Germany and imported by American Tactical Imports.

Quote: This rifle strikes an enjoyable balance between a historically accurate replica rifle and a fun plinking .22. The accuracy and reliability are much better than one might expect to see in a novelty gun. It's not easy to construct a rifle that looks like one design, while functioning like another, but GSG did a good job with this model. So grab a bulk box of .22 rounds and a sack of snacks, and head out to spend an afternoon mounting a successful skirmish along the tin can front with the GSG Schmeisser StG 44.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/4/17/gsg-schmeisser-stg-44-22-long-rifle-semi-auto/

https://www.gsg-waffen.com/


https://assets.americanrifleman.org/wp-content/uploads/Webcontent/images/2013-4/2013417122951-ati_stg-44_001_f.jpg?preset=list720


I got a real K43 scoped infantry rifle I'll sell ya. :03:
As for the Uberti when it come to quality I think they have always had the reputation of leading the pack. I had purchased a Uberti Colt .36 Navy many years ago and several Remy's between then and now. They were good then and IMO awesome now, Im a happy camper. Never had a Pietta but from what I hear they have come a long way and are running neck and neck with Uberti in the quality department.


Mr. Quatro, its a .44 in name only. Even if you didn't convert the cylinder to shoot .45 Colt cartridges. You would still need load a round ball that could measure anywhere from a .452 to .457 in diameter.
https://www.uberti-usa.com/uberti-posse-blog/the-official-uberti-usa-rate-of-twist-chart

[Commander Wallace]

I got a real K43 scoped infantry rifle I'll sell ya. :03:



I'm seriously considering it. :yep:

[Mr Quatro]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/gun-sales-may-record-coronavirus-riots?fbclid=IwAR04tUdpJSF0eSPtl8CMrCyD-ykqLkfTOjD_x1wM15tClzP1BrzYdoCNTuA

Gun sales increased 80.2% in May compared to last year

Approximately 1,726,053 guns were sold in May – a record-breaking 80.2 percent increase from last year, according to data released late Monday by Small Arms Analytics & Forecasting, which examines the raw data obtained from the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS.

Of the firearms sold, 1,052,723 were handguns and 535,014 were long-guns, the SAAF estimated.

[MaDef]

What sucks is the backlog on ordering specific firearms, went to order a stevens 320 for the wifes birthday, might get it by the end of summer. and Ammo is non existant.

[Texas Red]

If there would be one gun that I would love to shoot for fun, it would be the Ruger Single Six, six-shooters are the second-best on my list, Caeser Guerini Shotguns are first.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/resizer/-zja2LLM8jxbzcG7iAFDWqJalWc=/800x600/filters:focal(320x240:321x241)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bonnier.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5WLMVQ62JJTIRM76JAYYIZXSWM.jpg

[nikimcbee]

I ordered another 2019 Uberti .44 Remington New Model Army percussion pistol from Dixie Gun Works a few months back. And I just got my .45 Colt conversion cylinder in for it today from Taylor & Co.. Has an 8 Inch barrel and the whole damn thing weighs something like 3.5 pounds its a heavy ol' cus.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49799438372_b6d2221ff7_z.jpg


To the right is the original percussion cylinder nipples up that you cap with primers. On the left is the new R&D Taylor & Co. .45 Colt conversion cylinder, you can see in place of the primer nipples is a ring of firing pins. Very nice fit no end shake at all and a perfect clearance between the cylinder and the forcing cone.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49799083771_9b8989d6c2_z.jpg


After the Civil War many of these Remingtons percussion cylinders were being converted to .46 cal 5 shot rimfire cartridges. The one I have though not an exact replica, the concept is the same. To load you have to remove the cylinder from the frame like Preacher did on Pale Rider. Take the firing pin cap off, load five, line up the guide pin and put the cap back on. Insert the cylinder into the frame and for safety sake CAREFULLY and GENTLY guide the hammer to rest on the empty cylinder.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49798532758_c41d97eb17_z.jpg


The Uberti frame is proofed to C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) max average cylinder pressures of 14,000 psi which is compulsory by law. The new cylinder is certified to SAMMI recommendations of max average of 14,000 psi cylinder pressure.

I'll be shooting as a max load a .45 colt RFNL 255 grain bullet at 860 Feet Per Second. Which on paper, will produce a chamber pressure of 12,148 PSI and 410 Foot Pound muzzle energy. That's no slouch or mouse load. But its certainly no where near what more modern plus P ammo or Magnums can do. However, the load is about spot on for what these pistols were designed to do back in the day. When it was considered throughout the 1860's and 70' the most powerful hand gun in the world.


Since the conversion cylinder is classified as a 'part' and a black powder percussion pistol is not a regulated firearm. If they are purchased and shipped separately no FFL transfer is required, everything can be ordered through the internet. BUT! once the percussion pistol is in your possession you are required to follow your States carry laws. If you convert it to a cartridge cylinder like I did it is now considered a regulated firearm and must comply with State, Federal FFL transfer compliance laws.


Cool!

[nikimcbee]

With all the BS going on, I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiE1pUXEAHM

[nikimcbee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC9b1iZEo6I

[Catfish]

What are "pandemic gun buyers" :D

It has been some time but doesn't he make one or more mistakes while explaining? :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Pandemic gun buyers: outspoken critics of gun ownership who immediately betray their beliefs when their political affiliates and co-rioters begin to burn, loot, and assault.

Which parts does he make mistakes on?

[Cybermat47]

Pandemic gun buyers: outspoken critics of gun ownership who immediately betray their beliefs when their political affiliates and co-rioters begin to burn, loot, and assault.

Which parts does he make mistakes on?

How is that related to COVID-19?

[Catfish]

^ After watching this it seems people are frightened that law and order ends due to the pandemic, that police, militia and military will not be able to keep a state of control, so they all buy weapons to defend themselves against looters, or the next civil war.
Not that i would expect this happening, but – when the situation happens it is a bit late if you did not plan in time. Which is why some prepare for such a situation. I guess in a country where everyone can buy weapons everywhere and anytime it indeed makes sense.

@Neal
point 1: lol :haha:
point 2: I think the videos were actually well-made, i probably misunderstood something with the 'cartridge chamber' (Patronenlager, if is this the right word).

[Cybermat47]

^ After watching this it seems people are frightened that law and order ends due to the pandemic, that police, militia and military will not be able to keep a state of control, so they all buy weapons to defend themselves against looters, or the next civil war.

Ah, I thought the talk of rioting was in reference to the George Floyd protests - not the peaceful protests, obviously, the rioting that’s been occurring simultaneously. My mistake.

I say that if things got that bad, just steal an M14 while scavenging from the remains of a US military base. Or, in your situation Catfish, go for an MG3 :D

[Catfish]

^ the MG 42 or "3" has a much too high shot frequency, could not afford the ammo with 1300/min.. I actually have been trained on this, it builds up an insane muzzle heat in a very short time; maybe i will better steal a new "5" then :D

[August]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aVjUqzSTsA

[em2nought]

I say that if things got that bad, just steal an M14 while scavenging from the remains of a US military base. :D


Those AR-14s are hard to find. :D

[Mr Quatro]

Those AR-14s are hard to find. :D

How about a replica? :hmmm:

[August]

Those AR-14s are hard to find. :D


I wouldn't mind having an M14. Wouldn't mind an AR-10 either. My buddy thinks I would buy one with an upper chambered for .243 Winchester which is a legal hunting round in all 50 states.

[Onkel Neal]

August, .308 or 6.5 Creedmore. Power/precision. Educate me.

Looking at this
https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK84OETCNO8

[August]

From what I read statistically the Creedmore is the better round especially if you intend on doing a lot of long range shooting.



Check out this field and stream review:


https://www.fieldandstream.com/65-creedmoor-vs-308-winchester/

[Aktungbby]

/\ precisely. Unless your a 800-1200 yd. target shooter with reloading mania as I am with the .45-70 in Shiloh Sharps carbine or original 1876 Trapdoor Springfield (infantry), stick with the .308. It has a greater variety of projectile weights(as yet) and is rated at 5000 rounds to the gun barrel's life expectancy whereas the 6.5 mm is half as many rounds for the barrel life: 2500.:hmmm:..on a costly $2,000+ Creedmore rifle?? Costs are an issue for any shooter and buying new guns for an already ample arsenal at my age is not worth it. The 6.5 is only slightly more accurate with slightly less shoulder recoil. Both rounds will get the job done for hunting anything in North America at more typical ranges under 500 yards. :arrgh!: The Field and Stream side-by-side comparison article I read B4 posting this blog had an Hornady advertising tone in favor of the 6.5mm over the tried and true .308; hence my skepticism.

[3catcircus]

/\ precisely. Unless your a 800-1200 yd. target shooter with reloading mania as I am with the .45-70 in Shiloh Sharps carbine or original 1876 Trapdoor Springfield (infantry), stick with the .308. It has a greater variety of projectile weights(as yet) and is rated at 5000 rounds to the gun barrel's life expectancy whereas the 6.5 mm is half as many rounds for the barrel life: 2500.:hmmm:..on a costly $2,000+ Creedmore rifle?? Costs are an issue for any shooter and buying new guns for an already ample arsenal at my age is not worth it. The 6.5 is only slightly more accurate with slightly less shoulder recoil. Both rounds will get the job done for hunting anything in North America at more typical ranges under 500 yards. :arrgh!: The Field and Stream side-by-side comparison article I read B4 posting this blog had an Hornady advertising tone in favor of the 6.5mm over the tried and true .308; hence my skepticism.

*Most* people are never going to effectively use the exotic rounds like the Creedmoor or the .338 Lapua because they're most useful in the edge cases - killing people at long range in a military role. Sure the creedmoor can take out deer just fine, but .270 or .308 is just as effective. The recoil I think, is what most people are raving about with the creedmoor.

I'd argue that .22LR, .223 Rem, or Win .308 are probably the most versatile all-around. The .22LR for plinking since it's so cheap to buy, .223 Rem for your coyotes and other farm/ranch predators, and the. 308 for pretty much everything else except grizzlies or moose

[MaDef]

*Most* people are never going to effectively use the exotic rounds like the Creedmoor or the .338 Lapua because they're most useful in the edge cases - killing people at long range in a military role. Sure the creedmoor can take out deer just fine, but .270 or .308 is just as effective. The recoil I think, is what most people are raving about with the creedmoor.

I'd argue that .22LR, .223 Rem, or Win .308 are probably the most versatile all-around. The .22LR for plinking since it's so cheap to buy, .223 Rem for your coyotes and other farm/ranch predators, and the. 308 for pretty much everything else except grizzlies or moose

True but the creedmoor has better ballistics than the 308, which means less bullet drop and wind drift at a distance.

[August]

True but the creedmoor has better ballistics than the 308, which means less bullet drop and wind drift at a distance.


Yeah especially handy in those flat Texas prairies where long shots are pretty much the order of the day.

[les green01]

here a web site link if your guys are having trouble finding ammo like i was https://www.wikiarms.com/group/308win now if i can find more rounds for the 45 long colt i did break down and buy a M-1A but mine dad being the old Marine that he is took off with it,right now i been packing the Smith & Wesson’s Model S&W500

[Rockstar]

Looking .45 colt try www.buffalobore.com, a tad pricey.

[Onkel Neal]

precisely. Unless your a 800-1200 yd. target shooter with reloading mania as I am with the .45-70 in Shiloh Sharps carbine or original 1876 Trapdoor Springfield (infantry), stick with the .308. It has a greater variety of projectile weights(as yet) and is rated at 5000 rounds to the gun barrel's life expectancy whereas the 6.5 mm is half as many rounds for the barrel life: 2500.:hmmm:..on a costly $2,000+ Creedmore rifle?? Costs are an issue for any shooter and buying new guns for an already ample arsenal at my age is not worth it. The 6.5 is only slightly more accurate with slightly less shoulder recoil. Both rounds will get the job done for hunting anything in North America at more typical ranges under 500 yards. :arrgh!: The Field and Stream side-by-side comparison article I read B4 posting this blog had an Hornady advertising tone in favor of the 6.5mm over the tried and true .308; hence my skepticism.

Yeah, that is right, costs are a consideration. So, under 500 yds, not a lot of difference? I have never shot anything that far away, I would need a lot of practice, that's for sure.




Yeah especially handy in those flat Texas prairies where long shots are pretty much the order of the day.

Down here the wild pigs spend half their time in or near wooded areas. Thanks for the F&S article, so the Creedmore is really better at LR accuracy? And from the ballistics, carries more energy over 600 yds.




However, I honestly don't know about hitting anything over 300yds except at a range with a rest. I've never even tried to shoot something that far away! My range is set up for 150yds, I guess I need to mark off a 400yd spot and start practicing.

[3catcircus]

Yeah, that is right, costs are a consideration. So, under 500 yds, not a lot of difference? I have never shot anything that far away, I would need a lot of practice, that's for sure.






Down here the wild pigs spend half their time in or near wooded areas. Thanks for the F&S article, so the Creedmore is really better at LR accuracy? And from the ballistics, carries more energy over 600 yds.




However, I honestly don't know about hitting anything over 300yds except at a range with a rest. I've never even tried to shoot something that far away! My range is set up for 150yds, I guess I need to mark off a 400yd spot and start practicing.

^^^
This.

Most places, you're taking out gophers or prairie dogs at maybe 100 or so meters. Coyotes or boars maybe even closer.

And if you're deer hunting, it's usually fairly wooded in a lot of places, so it's more about not being seen/heard rather than a 1000m shot over a flat terrain.

[Onkel Neal]

Yes, and my eyesight is not as good as it used to be, so I am limited by that. We would need to add scopes to the equation to have a chance of hitting a pig at 400+ yds.

But I think August and these guys did answer my question, the creedmore has an edge in LR accuracy and ballistics. Very interesting, I'll have to consider that along with the other factors, including ammo availability.

[les green01]

Yes, and my eyesight is not as good as it used to be, so I am limited by that. We would need to add scopes to the equation to have a chance of hitting a pig at 400+ yds.

But I think August and these guys did answer my question, the creedmore has an edge in LR accuracy and ballistics. Very interesting, I'll have to consider that along with the other factors, including ammo availability.
i Have a friend that hunts with creedmore for hogs in oklahoma swears by creedmore also if you go scope you don't want to go cheap on scopes or mounts last i heard from the ammo makers going be another year before ammo goes back to normal also here a little hint if you watch Sergeant York where he wets down the sight to cut the haze that really does work in real life

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, not buying any ammo for a while. Best price I can find is around $1 a round.

[Aktungbby]

Yeah, not buying any ammo for a while. Best price I can find is around $1 a round. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/776/886/0ee.jpg That can be a major consideration in this pandemic trauma time BBY!...for serious shooters that is. Even at Cosco it's about a buck a roll!!??... https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=815&pictureid=10818:arrgh!:

[les green01]

really what is sad in december i was looking for another blackpower rifle even the kits they was even all sold out

[Aktungbby]

^Same here; that's why I switched to TP! My brother in law had driven cross country in his tour bus a few months back with a new Llama auto pistol and was unable to buy .9mm for it anywhere along I-80 from Virginia to California. I traded him a box of my Berretta service weapon's .9mm for a delicious box of cookies and a little electrical work around the house! :yeah: :D

[les green01]

good thing i got the bows i wouldnt mind everyone buying guns if they will stand the lines against the feds right now i got prenty of 45 and 50 cal balls 4 jugs of power 4 things of nipples for the handguns prenty of flints for the rifle

[Onkel Neal]

Well, I think I made it through my gun lust phase for the year. :D I can hold off, going to rejigger the budget for a new tile kitchen floor since the ice maker has been leaking beneath the wood flooring, causing it to warp. :wah::wah::wah:

[les green01]

Well, I think I made it through my gun lust phase for the year. :D I can hold off, going to rejigger the budget for a new tile kitchen floor since the ice maker has been leaking beneath the wood flooring, causing it to warp. :wah::wah::wah:

that sucks bad house lol i'm getting ready to bid on a 1944 Garand to help students with their tuition here a link if it ok to post if you guys like to get in the action https://one.bidpal.net/cca2021/browse/all

[MaDef]

Bought this last month for the wife, So I get to spend Mothers Day at the range. :D
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?pictureid=11929&albumid=1312&dl=1620421319&thumb=1

[August]

Sweet.

[MaDef]

Just bought a colt government 1911. Im looking forward to giving her a workout on Sunday.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1312&pictureid=11994

[Red October1984]

Happy to see this thread still going :Kaleun_Cheers:

[MaDef]

Sometimes it's the gun, not the shooter. :D
first day with the 1911, distance is 15 yards. target on the left is a glock19
Target on the right is my new (old) colt. It's definitely easier to shoot.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1312&pictureid=12002

[Rockstar]

https://imgur.com/a/ldhy2vdI have a Colt Navy .36 second generation and an Uberti New Model Army .45 laying around doing nothing but collecting dust for several years. So the other day I was bored and I said to myself. Self, let’s get back into some black powder shooting. There’s nothing like rolling your own paper cartridges and all that smoke, grease, blow back and shrapnel when ya pull the trigger.

For chrissakes I start shopping locally and online and come to find out all of the #10 percussion caps and Swiss 3f supreme are out of stock. Even went looking for some Schuetzen sporting powder and 777 3fg. Absolutely nothing nowhere.

Damn hoarders what the heck is wrong with people.

Did manage to pick some Tokarev 7.62 x 25 for my old Soviet TT33 so I got that going for me. But I was so looking forward to some of that nasty black powder action.

[Rockstar]

I got this a little over a year ago, An Uberti 1873 ‘Colt’ Single Action Army 7.5 inch barrel a.k.a. The Peacemaker in .45 Colt with U.S. 7th Cavalry I Company and period armory marking and finish. That’s an 1885 Indian head penny for scale

Smooth C-O-L-T action and maybe too much of a hair trigger pull out of the box, but I’ll adjust that later ;)

It’s a six shooter but note only five rounds. That’s because there is no reliable safety so you have to carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

https://i.ibb.co/syhVcpJ/5-DC63-A88-FA3-E-483-A-BFE1-0498083-E86-C5.jpg

[August]

That is really fine Rockstar!

[Rockstar]

It’s a lot of fun to shoot. I don’t use the sights very much as my eyes have a hard time lining up the very narrow rear sight and front blade. One of these days I might widen the rear notch a bit. But I’m in no rush, I like shooting this smoke wagon just using my natural point of aim at metal silhouette targets 25 yards away. Hearing that loud “clang” when I hit is quite satisfying. Boom - CLANG, Boom - CLANG :yep:

I take it with me when I head up to the Appalachians for a few days or a week of back country camping. I carry butt forward on my strong side and believe it or not even the most ardent ant-gun nut always takes an interest in the way I carry and the gun it self. I guess it being ‘old fashioned’ is appreciated by everyone.

Though they always seem to get around to asking why I carry if the possibility of ever having to use one is so slim. But I don’t consider possibilities. I consider the consequences of not having one if I needed one.

[Buddahaid]

I been watching a lot of this YouTube channel lately. Lot's of great old firearms.

C&Arsenal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB8__9I-NNk&t=2642s

[Platapus]

Just bought a colt government 1911.



Hard to go wrong with a decision like this. :up:

[August]

My M1911's double safety system is considered one of the most reliable in the world and I STILL keep the hammer down on an empty chamber, for peace of mind if nothing else.

[MaDef]

I'm at the cabin with a mountain lion skulking around, my1911 is in condition 1 until I leave.

[les green01]

here why you put 5 instead of 6 in the 1873 i even do with my 1851's and walker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNnsp-cs

[Catfish]

I'm at the cabin with a mountain lion skulking around, my1911 is in condition 1 until I leave.
Why so complicated .. :03:



https://i.imgur.com/v8pQABIl.jpg

[Armistead]

My father died about 6 years ago and I still have a mass of his stuff stored I haven't gone through, including many tool and tackle boxes. I went through some and found this Ruger New Model Single Six in a tackle box. Now I'm gonna make more effort to go through them all. 4768

[Buddahaid]

My father died about 6 years ago and I still have a mass of his stuff stored I haven't gone through, including many tool and tackle boxes. I went through some and found this Ruger New Model Single Six in a tackle box. Now I'm gonna make more effort to go through them all. 4768

I know that one very well. I not only inherited dad's fishing gear but grandpa's as well that dad inherited. 90% of it I gave away to people I knew that were fishermen but I did keep some of the cool stuff.

[Rockstar]

Sorry about the angle.

Started rolling my own to go shooting tomorrow. Making paper cartridges today using Swiss 3f black powder topped with Johnston and Dow 216 grain conical bullets. Bullets are cast with the Eras Gone mold.

Tedious but enjoyable. Using rolling paper for the cartridge. Might experiment with flash paper one of these days and even try waterproofing them with a colloid solution

https://i.ibb.co/zNRKJKf/Hobby-time.jpg

[August]

https://i.imgur.com/VpsACxs.jpg

[Aktungbby]

MY backup choice on duty: American Derringer with '45-70(Spanish American Trapdoor Springfield military round) round -top; and .410 shotgun- lower barrel. Unfortunately considered illegal in CA as under 18" barrel 'sawed-off shotgun':O: I still shoot an original 1876 Trapdoor Springfield too. Still the loudest thing at the range!!!:k_confused:https://thefirearmsforum.com/attachments/img_0139-jpg.35955/

[MadMike]

I have about a dozen weapons I need to take to the range and sight in (ranging from matchlocks, flinters, percussion, a PSA PA-10, and a 2" bore swivel cannon. Local range is indoors, limited to 25 yds (no black powder weapons, and nothing over .308). Need to move back to South Dakota and Montana.

Yours, &c.

Mike

[August]

Some pictures would be nice.

[les green01]

went to a gun show last month walk in 2 m-1s Garands 2600 dollars i didnt pass that one up

[Buddahaid]

MY backup choice on duty: American Derringer with '45-70(Spanish American Trapdoor Springfield military round) round -top; and .410 shotgun- lower barrel. Unfortunately considered illegal in CA as under 18" barrel 'sawed-off shotgun':O: I still shoot an original 1876 Trapdoor Springfield too. Still the loudest thing at the range!!!:k_confused:https://thefirearmsforum.com/attachments/img_0139-jpg.35955/

So not sawed off equals sawed off which would piss me off and want me to say sod off....:Kaleun_Wink:

[Aktungbby]

So not sawed off equals sawed off which would piss me off and want me to say sod off....:Kaleun_Wink:I fancy I'm Yancy when I pun with that gun!:o 'Specially when 'jockin' around with my X Brands ammo?!:O:

[les green01]

American Derringer is nice i place it in my hat i carry my .500 4 inch mag in montana over the summer at libby while my buddy was packing a 243 for bears i was rolling around laughing but this buddy askes me if my 22 kicked lol

[Rockstar]

Now you too can have your very own hand held 3000 round per minute rail gun. Great for home defense!

https://e-shotgun.com/

Don’t delay, order yours now :D

[Rockstar]

Hodgdon is closing down their GOEX black powder manufacturing plant

On Jan. 1, 2009, GOEX was purchased by Hodgdon Powder Company, which touted its philosophy of, "We are here today. We were here yesterday. We will be here tomorrow." Hodgdon spent years updating equipment at the Minden facility, enhancing employee safety and blackpowder quality.

Despite Hodgdon's efforts, the GOEX facility at Camp Minden has a history of manufacturing incidents stretching back to 1998, including a June 2011 incident where 1,000 lbs. of blackpowder exploded. The latest incident at GOEX occurred on June 18, 2021, when an explosion required the evacuation of 15 employees inside the facility. Nobody was injured, but the plant observed a 24- to 48-hour waiting period to ensure that nothing else at the facility ignited.

Let’s hope the Swiss black powder factory can meet demand.

[Skybird]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY-9vDpKV1I


Before you laugh, think of any equivalent to frog poison.

[MaDef]

Decided to get a buddy for my 1911 chose a Beretta 92FS. https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1312&pictureid=12296

[Sean C]

Decided to get a buddy for my 1911 chose a Beretta 92FS.

Good choice, IMHO. :up:

I've been eyeing the 96 for a while. Reason being it's the same caliber as my EDC S&W Shield. One of these days I'll ... pull the trigger.

[em2nought]

I'm really thinking about getting one of Springfield's "new" Browning Hi Powers, but kinda expensive :hmmm:

[MaDef]

Good choice, IMHO. :up:

I've been eyeing the 96 for a while. Reason being it's the same caliber as my EDC S&W Shield. One of these days I'll ... pull the trigger.

I can't take this out for a test run until Sunday, but I have a feeling I'll need to replace the grips with thinner ones, and do some spring work to lower the DA trigger weight (it comes in at 9lb 14oz)

[Otto Harkaman]

Well I am changing it up. Swapping my Beretta J9A9F10 92A1 17+1 9mm 4.9" for a Glock G19 Gen5 Compact 15 Rounds 9mm.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/images/132589.jpg
https://www.budsgunshop.com/images/415009498.jpg

[em2nought]

I'm surprised more people aren't put off by Glock's grip angle. It just doesn't work for me. Otherwise, they're great firearms.

Still jonesing for a new High Power

[Otto Harkaman]

I've got a G26 as well, I found it very easy to handle, made me want to feel a full size grip. Just picked up the G19 today, Halloween gun, never thought about the angle of the grip. Feels great in hand can't wait to hit the range this coming Saturday. I really love the sights.

[Rockstar]

I was in when we switched from the lord’s caliber to the Beretta M9. Compared to the Colt 1911 only thing I liked about the m9 was the massive mag capacity, what nice change that was! As for the rest of the design I wasn’t all that happy, it was IMO oversized, awkward, with too long of a long trigger pull.

[Otto Harkaman]

This Beretta I have is Italian made, very nice, yes but way too big and awkwardly heavy. I wish in some ways I could keep it but time to move on.

[Rockstar]

Dumping that Beretta and getting the Glock is a step in the right direction. :up::yep:

[Commander Wallace]

I'm really thinking about getting one of Springfield's "new" Browning Hi Powers, but kinda expensive :hmmm:


You can get a full combat auto that is highly regarded and styled like the Browning high power, if that matters.

Try the Czech CZ 75B. It is a large frame gun and not something I would recommend for concealed carry unless you are a large frame individual. :yep:



https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.guns.com%2Fdev%2F806703011 202_1.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=c47ed82430c607cebfaf0d9ae755c6ff3bb86c9e6fbf4e 7393f8a88a185bac6c&ipo=images (https://images.guns.com/dev/806703011202_1.png)
I have one and like it a lot. It has a fairly high capacity clip of 15 rounds. I have seen other clips with a 10 round capacity. The CZ 75 isn't cheap either but i have seen gently used models in the $ 450-500 dollar range




https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. j2P85h7dTeCKGsyutUl4-QHaEI%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=890b4723da6908c65e25c287e83b56aabd5710906d223e 2a8e8426f39fa698af&ipo=images

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. 21ym2yHqMj-_JEAfgTOQJwHaFO%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=3c30e20949c235fe504b00d6909346ce6eef84b03a62d2 44ad9a667dbd767bd9&ipo=images (https://images.guns.com/dev/806703011202_1.png)


^ This top gun is of course the browning high Power. The lower gun is the CZ75B for a side by side comparison. Draw backs to the high power are that they are Single action only. The CZ is double action and single action with the hammer cocked. The high power is offered in 9mm and 40. cal. just as the CZ 75B's are. The early 40. cal high powers were said to have barrel issues with insufficient lugs for the barrel.

[Rockstar]

Bump stock ban just got thrown out in a federal appeals court. Might make way for Rare Breed’s FRT-15 next.

[Red October1984]

Bump stock ban just got thrown out in a federal appeals court. Might make way for Rare Breed’s FRT-15 next.


I would wait on the FRT-15 if we could focus on the brace ruling that's allegedly going live tomorrow.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Q: any opinions on the 10mm vs 9mm x 19 cartridges?

I was thinking about getting a CCW permit now that that's actually a thing in Maryland.

[em2nought]

Q: any opinions on the 10mm vs 9mm x 19 cartridges?

I was thinking about getting a CCW permit now that that's actually a thing in Maryland.

You've got 5.7 x 28 to think about now too with 22 rounds in this particular magazine
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/first-look-smith-wesson-m-p-5-7-pistol/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20M%26P5.,%26%20Wesson%20fir earms%2C%20the%20M%26P5.

[Rockstar]

If you’re looking for something to keep in the cars glove box, under your seat, purse, or carry in the woods any size and caliber is suitable. But if you’re looking for a dedicated every day concealed carry search more along the lines of frame size, grip and capacity, then practice practice and practice. The Sig Sauer P365 9mm & .380 are quite popular and reliable micros. The 9mm can be snappy as hell the .380 is much more tame and great for small frame ladies and Nancy boys :). If you got large hands or simply looking for a better grip then the P365xl might be worth a look. All are a very concealable and most importantly IMO very comfortable everyday carry with high mag capacity for their size. Everyone and their mothers make holsters for them too, lots of options.

When I carry now, it’s just a .38 special off-duty revolver with hard cast wad cutters in a very comfortable leather IWB holster. I use wad cutters as hollow points don’t achieve the velocity from a 1.5 inch barrel making useless for their intended purpose . Though wadcutters don’t expand or lose energy like a hollow point, they do penetrate! I also found someone who makes a IWB holster for my old Soviet TT-33, 7.62x25 mm which I carry once in a blue moon. But that’s kinda clunky.

If you plan to go out in the woods where black bears I’d go with a +p 10mm hard cast wad cutter would penetrate like a freight train straight past flesh, bone, fat, right into the boiler room with ease. Unfortunately some semi auto’s are kinda a finicky when it comes to finding the right brinell hardness and wad cutters that will feed properly. It’s definitely worth the time buying a few different boxes and researching by trial and error so you’re not stuck with a malfunction when you need it most. Or just get a wheel gun.

https://i.imgur.com/rCp1zFH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OjFUXkS.jpg

[Rockstar]

The other thing about conceal carry is insurance. There are plenty of people willing to sell you it. Be very careful and use due diligence read the fine print as to what they actually provide. IMO I considered most if not all to be a scam.

Personally I don’t carry insurance. I feel that if someone thinks they need it they most likely don’t understand the definition of self defence and are carrying for the wrong reason and shouldn’t have a gun to begin with.

[Commander Wallace]

The 9mm can be snappy as hell the .380 is much more tame and great for small frame ladies and Nancy boys :). If you got large hands or simply looking for a better grip then the P365xl might be worth a look. All are a very concealable and most importantly IMO very comfortable everyday carry with high mag capacity for their size. Everyone and their mothers make holsters for them too, lots of options.




I disagree with the .380 being for " Nancy Boys." It's true the " Micro " frame 9mm have a niche in the market. .380 calibers on the other hand have sufficient stopping power. FBI ballistic reports tend to agree as well. Take a Bersa Thunder .380 plus model. It carries 15 rounds in a double stack magazine. Load the magazine with good hollow points and it has respectable stopping power.



http://www.budsgunshop.com/images/hiRes/139413.jpg?v=1 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.budsgunshop.com%2Fproduct_in fo.php%2Fproducts_id%2F139413%2Fbersa%2Btalon%2Bar mament%2Bllc%2Bthun380pm15%2Bthunder%2Bplus%2Bsa%2 Bda%2B380%2Bacp%2Bcaliber%2Bwith%2B3.50%2Bbarrel%2 B15%2B1%2Bcapacity%2Boverall%2Bmatte%2Bblack%2Bmet al%2Bfinish%2Bserrate&psig=AOvVaw2_tnHl_JHOR9wVscrY56ZH&ust=1675953556271000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjRxqFwoTCJC8kuKThv0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI)


It's not going to have the stopping power of a 9mm, .357 magnum or .40 caliber. Then again, it's not supposed to. The Bersa Thunder 15 round model with 2 spare magazines filled with hollow points is sufficient. The whole idea is not to get into a confrontation against an armed assailant but rather have a weapon that allows you to escape to relative safety until law enforcement can arrive and handle the situation. If not, .380 hollow points can do the job, especially if you have many rounds of it in a magazine and also loaded spare magazines.


Everything in concealed carry is a balance between stopping power and conceal-ability with regards to licensed carry. A good .380 can fill that role. At home, I would favor a good .357 wheel gun with speed loaders and loaded with wad cutters. If you have all of your family members assembled in one room, a good long gun or shotgun is hard to beat in protecting them.


















(https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.budsgunshop.com%2Fi mages%2FhiRes%2F139413.jpg%3Fv%3D1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.budsgunshop.com%2Fprod uct_info.php%2Fproducts_id%2F139413%2Fbersa%2Btalo n%2Barmament%2Bllc%2Bthun380pm15%2Bthunder%2Bplus% 2Bsa%2Bda%2B380%2Bacp%2Bcaliber%2Bwith%2B3.50%2Bba rrel%2B15%2B1%2Bcapacity%2Boverall%2Bmatte%2Bblack %2Bmetal%2Bfinish%2Bserrate&tbnid=svJktYRbG_5I4M&vet=12ahUKEwjznKnUk4b9AhUdMt4AHXnECgkQMygDegUIARC4 AQ..i&docid=G1NFibAXNq_ZYM&w=1000&h=752&q=images%20for%20Bersa%20Thunder%20.380%20plus&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwjznKnUk4b9AhUdMt4AHXnECgkQMygDegUIARC4A Q)

[Rockstar]

I disagree…


When I was referring to the 9mm being snappy it was in regard to what some (including me) perceive as a ‘snappy’ felt recoil inherent in micros like the 9mm P365. Those pistols are small and some people (not all) don’t like that perceived lack of control it creates. Which I think arises from the fact that grips on micros aren’t long enough for a shooters pinky finger to wrap around and grasp, some people just can’t get used to that. So Sig and others make excellent magazine grip extensions and though still snappy it gives the shooter a better sense of control, the XL size helps with that too. Both options still keeps the firearm concealed quite well and remains comfortable for all day carry. Which is important too, it’s called conceal carry for a reason. You don’t want others to know that you carry especially if you run across some Karen who sees it, accuses you of brandishing weapon and decides to call the cops while you’re waiting in line for your fries at MacDonalds. IMO part of a conceal carry responsibility is being as discreet as possible but still pack a punch.

As for .380 it is thought to be a bit more forgiving. Hence my comment for ladies and Nancy boys that can’t deal with that ‘snappy’ felt recoil of a micro 9mm. :D


But you’re right if you can hit your intended target a 9mm or .380 is more than capable of doing the job. Also just FYI according to FBI statistics the vast majority of personal defense shooting situations occur with 12 feet. You really don’t need to go big or have some elaborate laser or dot sight or ‘tactical’ attachments, forget that crap. You just need be able quickly draw, point, shoot and hit the target and if possible do so without looking down any sights. Learn to use that thing we all have, a natural point of aim. And remember a CCW permit does not make you a crime fighter or a super hero. It is strictly for your own self defense.

[Sean C]

I've been open carrying for years and have had zero problems with "Karens" ... or those with more heinous intentions, either. The latter is one reason I open carry, and it has proven effective at deterring a bad situation before it starts. I don't ever want to have to use my firearm in anger, so I'd rather prevent than react.

I do get the occasional question about which gun I'm carrying. But that usually results in a nice conversation about firearms. Maybe it's because of where I live. I don't know.

I did have one police officer recommend I get a concealed carry license. But he didn't say why he thought I needed one. I might get one anyway, just in case I feel like being more discreet one day. I dunno.

[Rockstar]

I've been open carrying for years and have had zero problems with "Karens" ... or those with more heinous intentions, either. The latter is one reason I open carry, and it has proven effective at deterring a bad situation before it starts. I don't ever want to have to use my firearm in anger, so I'd rather prevent than react.

I do get the occasional question about which gun I'm carrying. But that usually results in a nice conversation about firearms. Maybe it's because of where I live. I don't know.

I did have one police officer recommend I get a concealed carry license. But he didn't say why he thought I needed one. I might get one anyway, just in case I feel like being more discreet one day. I dunno.

I’m sure in a state where it’s legal to open carry it might be much easier to do it without some Karen giving you guff. But I think Torvald lives in Maryland which was just recently told by the SCOTUS it shall issue, its whole other world up there might take some getting used too. :03:

In Florida it’s illegal to brandish a weapon, I figure the more discreet one is the less likely a chance some Karen or other busy body will get in your business. IMO I personally liken being discreet to a certain level of professionalism, but that’s just me. If you have a CCW permit and want to stuff a blunderbuss down your pants you go right ahead. :). But I think a smaller discreet carry also lends itself to a comfortable carry and you’ll be more inclined to carry it. Rather than keeping your shiny new blunderbuss in a sock drawer because it jams into your crotch.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

If you’re looking for something to keep in the cars glove box, under your seat, purse, or carry in the woods any size and caliber is suitable. But if you’re looking for a dedicated every day concealed carry search more along the lines of frame size, grip and capacity, then practice practice and practice. The Sig Sauer P365 9mm & .380 are quite popular and reliable micros. The 9mm can be snappy as hell the .380 is much more tame and great for small frame ladies and Nancy boys :). If you got large hands or simply looking for a better grip then the P365xl might be worth a look. All are a very concealable and most importantly IMO very comfortable everyday carry with high mag capacity for their size. Everyone and their mothers make holsters for them too, lots of options.

When I carry now, it’s just a .38 special off-duty revolver with hard cast wad cutters in a very comfortable leather IWB holster. I use wad cutters as hollow points don’t achieve the velocity from a 1.5 inch barrel making useless for their intended purpose . Though wadcutters don’t expand or lose energy like a hollow point, they do penetrate! I also found someone who makes a IWB holster for my old Soviet TT-33, 7.62x25 mm which I carry once in a blue moon. But that’s kinda clunky.

If you plan to go out in the woods where black bears I’d go with a +p 10mm hard cast wad cutter would penetrate like a freight train straight past flesh, bone, fat, right into the boiler room with ease. Unfortunately some semi auto’s are kinda a finicky when it comes to finding the right brinell hardness and wad cutters that will feed properly. It’s definitely worth the time buying a few different boxes and researching by trial and error so you’re not stuck with a malfunction when you need it most. Or just get a wheel gun.

https://i.imgur.com/rCp1zFH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OjFUXkS.jpg


I thought for home defense a Remington '97 filled with these would do the trick nicely:


https://gatekeeperammo.com/?product=arm-12-gauge-460gr-counterstrike-defense-the-gatekeeper


However, I'm uncertain about the laws for home defense in MD. Knowing my state, you are probably required to retreat, if possible, while leaving cookies and milk for any home invader.

[Rockstar]

I thought for home defense a Remington '97 filled with these would do the trick nicely:


https://gatekeeperammo.com/?product=arm-12-gauge-460gr-counterstrike-defense-the-gatekeeper


However, I'm uncertain about the laws for home defense in MD. Knowing my state, you are probably required to retreat, if possible, while leaving cookies and milk for any home invader.

IMO nothing beats a shotgun for protecting the home. I had a Remington M870 because I trained with it in military. Don’t mean to toot my own horn but I am still damn good with it. I can rack off the entire tube and combat load in the blink off an eye. Just keep in mind there’s difference between shooting someone for robbing replaceable personal items and shooting someone because you were in fear for your life. But again that’s me, I’ll do everything I can to not shoot someone. But I have absolutely no problem with it if I believe my life or my families life is in fear for their life. Make sure judge knows “I was in fear for my life” and if the circumstances show that, it’s a good shot.

[August]

IMO nothing beats a shotgun when it comes to defending your house. Which in Maryland I believe is the last of the unregulated firearms.




My home defense shotgun:


https://i.imgur.com/WTfBjBHl.jpg

[Torvald Von Mansee]

My home defense shotgun:


https://i.imgur.com/WTfBjBHl.jpg


I'm somewhat reminded of the Japanese LMGs of WW2 which had bayonet lugs, etc. Those amuse me. The hopper mechanism for the one, though, looks pretty bad.


Now, one long gun I DO want to get is an Arisaka, not sure if 6.5 or 7.7mm, though. Likely a carbine. However, I'm not alone in my desire for such a firearm, and I think the prices have gone up since I last thought about it..

[August]

I'm somewhat reminded of the Japanese LMGs of WW2 which had bayonet lugs, etc. Those amuse me. The hopper mechanism for the one, though, looks pretty bad.


Now, one long gun I DO want to get is an Arisaka, not sure if 6.5 or 7.7mm, though. Likely a carbine. However, I'm not alone in my desire for such a firearm, and I think the prices have gone up since I last thought about it..


You'll probably want to stay away from late war Ariskas then. I've heard their quality dropped significantly as it progressed.

[Otto Harkaman]

Kentucky its open carry and conceal carry without a permit as long as you are legally able to own a firearm.

I have been on a Glock journey, got a G26 to replace my Kimber Nightfall which replaced a Bersa .380. I am glad I got rid of those two guns. But I am going to get rid of the G26 also. I've put at least a thousand rounds through it but the two finger grip even with a extended 12 round clip its very uncomfortable and she is a heavy little brute.

I haven't shot my G19, which feels just so nice in the hand. What I did do was buy a G44 since 22lr. is fun to shoot. I love this gun its is so light you think its an air-soft pistol. By itself easy to stuff in a pocket and doesn't pull your pants down. I have easily put a thousand or more rounds through it, hard to believe how reliable. Its so light a $20 air-soft shoulder holster works great, with two extra mags. I only put 15 rounds in the 17 round mags, loaded with some Aquila Interceptor hollow points (which is hilarious because they look like they have a dimple, compared to the 147 grain hydro shock lawman hollow points in my G26) but they have a satisfying kick and loud report (for 22lr.) when fired.

https://youtu.be/UPNWsf5LbX4

[Commander Wallace]

When I was referring to the 9mm being snappy it was in regard to what some (including me) perceive as a ‘snappy’ felt recoil inherent in micros like the 9mm P365. So Sig and others make excellent magazine grip extensions and though still snappy it gives the shooter a better sense of control, the XL size helps with that too. Both options still keeps the firearm concealed quite well and remains comfortable for all day carry. Which is important too, it’s called conceal carry for a reason. You don’t want others to know that you carry especially if you run across some Karen who sees it, accuses you of brandishing weapon and decides to call the cops while you’re waiting in line for your fries at MacDonalds. IMO part of a conceal carry responsibility is being as discreet as possible but still pack a punch.


I was never a big fan of the micro 9mm partly because of the control ability issues with them that you mentioned and the other part is staying on target. Because of advances in bullet technology, the 9mm is a respectable choice for concealed carry. If the weapons are the same size, the .40 cal is a better choice. The Sig Sauer .357 semi auto is another great choice.

As for .380 it is thought to be a bit more forgiving. Hence my comment for ladies and Nancy boys that can’t deal with that ‘snappy’ felt recoil of a micro 9mm. :D

But you’re right if you can hit your intended target a 9mm or .380 is more than capable of doing the job. Also just FYI according to FBI statistics the vast majority of personal defense shooting situations occur with 12 feet. You really don’t need to go big or have some elaborate laser or dot sight or ‘tactical’ attachments, forget that crap. You just need be able quickly draw, point, shoot and hit the target and if possible do so without looking down any sights. Learn to use that thing we all have, a natural point of aim. And remember a CCW permit does not make you a crime fighter or a super hero. It is strictly for your own self defense.


The great thing about the Bursa Thunder .380 Plus is not only the 15 round clips but also the build. The Bersa is basically a copy of the excellent Walthers PPK and a basic blow back design. As such, the Bersa also has a fixed barrel with a spring around the barrel. It's accuracy is very good. You will hit what you aim at. Three dot sights are standard on the Bersa.

You also brought up a great point that I had intended to mention. Most shooting occur at distances at less than 12 feet, according to statistical analysis of shootings. If you shoot at someone from much greater distances, you will be hard pressed to explain to a District Attorney or a jury for that matter how the individual you were shooting at from a distance was a threat to you to begin with.

Chances are, you will be charged. I like the Idea of the .380 as you can incrementally increase the force you use without necessarily killing anyone with the first shot. That's not to say someone can't be killed with the first shot from a .380, it just makes it more unlikely than with a larger caliber weapon. The main point is deterring an aggressor from further attacks.

I bought my lady a SW .357 magnum revolver. I loaded it with + p hollow points in .38 for control-ability. I also have shotguns here, loaded. The revolver remains a great defense gun for a number of reasons.




The revolver is practically fool proof.
The cartridges in a revolver are carried outside the gun. This protects the cartridges from having the primers fouled from having the oil from the internal parts in a semi automatic leach into your ammunition.
Further, carrying ammunition in a clip weakens the spring. The first shot in the breech will fire but there is a good chance of the weapon jamming as the slide comes back. Not a good thing to happen in a home self defense weapon.

[MaDef]

Q: any opinions on the 10mm vs 9mm x 19 cartridges?

I was thinking about getting a CCW permit now that that's actually a thing in Maryland.

Ballistically, the 10mm performs better than the 9mm, either will be fine for self defense. having said that, the 10mm isn't quite as popular as the 9mm, so platforms are more limited, as is ammo choice.

My advice: find a gun range that rents pistols, test drive a few of their pistols. If you aren't a practiced shooter (don't shoot on a regular basis), take a basic safety course (most ranges offer them).

Then answer the following questions, the answers will give you an idea of the pistol you choose and the accessories that will go with it. ie; holsters & other qear.

when am I going to carry it: every day, all day,/ jogging / to the beach / to the opera / shopping / local festivals etc.

How am I going to carry it: inside/outside the waistband, under the arm, cross draw, appendix carry, 4 o'clock carry. etc.

After you have your pistol, go to the range and put at least a few boxes of ammo thru it. this familiarizes you with the pistol and it's quirks (they all have them, although they tend to be subjective). After that, take a defensive pistol & concealed carry class.

Remember, while it is your Right to keep and bear arms, it is your responsibility to do so in a safe & legal manner.

[Otto Harkaman]

Perhaps you could say the .22short was the first defensive cartridge round?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/22short22lr.jpg/200px-22short22lr.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Short

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_1%2C_2nd_Issue.jpg/300px-Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_1%2C_2nd_Issue.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_1

G44 25 round mag dump
https://youtu.be/1xN9l5BM3hI

[Rockstar]

Look at all those holes and dings in the ceiling! :timeout:

[Buddahaid]

Look at all those holes and dings in the ceiling! :timeout:

Well that gives me confidence...

I thought only Daisy BB guns suffered from spiral trajectories. :haha:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

You'll probably want to stay away from late war Ariskas then. I've heard their quality dropped significantly as it progressed.


Some last ditch weapons might be amusing to own, but I'd never fire them.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Ballistically, the 10mm performs better than the 9mm, either will be fine for self defense. having said that, the 10mm isn't quite as popular as the 9mm, so platforms are more limited, as is ammo choice.

My advice: find a gun range that rents pistols, test drive a few of their pistols. If you aren't a practiced shooter (don't shoot on a regular basis), take a basic safety course (most ranges offer them).

Then answer the following questions, the answers will give you an idea of the pistol you choose and the accessories that will go with it. ie; holsters & other qear.

when am I going to carry it: every day, all day,/ jogging / to the beach / to the opera / shopping / local festivals etc.

How am I going to carry it: inside/outside the waistband, under the arm, cross draw, appendix carry, 4 o'clock carry. etc.

After you have your pistol, go to the range and put at least a few boxes of ammo thru it. this familiarizes you with the pistol and it's quirks (they all have them, although they tend to be subjective). After that, take a defensive pistol & concealed carry class.

Remember, while it is your Right to keep and bear arms, it is your responsibility to do so in a safe & legal manner.


Actually, given the probable range of any self-defense scenario, just about any cartridge will do if one keeps one's cool and shoots straight.

[MaDef]

Actually, given the probable range of any self-defense scenario, just about any cartridge will do if one keeps one's cool and shoots straight.

There are a lot of caveats in that statement. :03:

[Rockstar]

Actually, given the probable range of any self-defense scenario, just about any cartridge will do if one keeps one's cool and shoots straight.

True dat, all ballistic advantages are thrown right out the window if your bullet doesn’t connect. Five .22 LRs in the bullseye beat one .44 Mag. that missed completely. To paraphrase famed lawman Bill Jordan, ballistics are fine, but accuracy is final.

Most large caliber fire arms back in the day like my beloved .45 colt were also meant to shoot a horse out from under its rider. I carry it when I go into the wild. But for everyday carry and personal defense at 12 feet? No way! The .22lr has a long history of being used by spooks, military pilots and gamblers as a personal defence round since the mid 1800’s. Below is a bullet required by the FBI to penetrate 12 inches of ballistic gel. The .22 ‘Punch’

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Punch-22-WMR-box.jpg


Though I think my little snubby .38 will do the job too. :)

[Rockstar]

Might go find me a Sig 322C-BAS tomorrow :D

https://youtu.be/4OxUXVrRMgo

[Commander Wallace]

True dat, all ballistic advantages are thrown right out the window if your bullet doesn’t connect. Five .22 LRs in the bullseye beat one .44 Mag. that missed completely. To paraphrase famed lawman Bill Jordan, ballistics are fine, but accuracy is final.

Most large caliber fire arms back in the day like my beloved .45 colt were also meant to shoot a horse out from under its rider. I carry it when I go into the wild. But for everyday carry and personal defense at 12 feet? No way! The .22lr has a long history of being used by spooks, military pilots and gamblers as a personal defence round since the mid 1800’s. Below is a bullet required by the FBI to penetrate 12 inches of ballistic gel. The .22 ‘Punch’

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Punch-22-WMR-box.jpg


Though I think my little snubby .38 will do the job too. :)

Currently the 22 LR ammo that strikes the best balance of bullet weight and muzzle velocity to achieve the greatest power is CCI's Stinger 22 LR Ammo. This round has a 32 grain CPHP bullet loaded to a muzzle velocity of 1,640 fps. The hyper-velocity Stinger cartridge has 191 ft lbs of muzzle energy. The highest muzzle velocity you can get from a 22 LR is 1,850 fps. This is CCI’s COPPER-22 round, but its bullet weighs only 21 grains – nearly half the average weight for its caliber. That lightning fast muzzle velocity only gives so light a bullet a muzzle energy of 160 ft lbs!

The Wmr has a muzzle velocity of 1000 fps. WMR's have a 45 bullet grain weight. In the video, with ballistic gel, the CCI ammo appears to penetrate 9 inches. The WMR penetrated better than 12 inches. Most human being are about 12 inches, front to back. CCI may be the better choice if over penetration is a concern.

Both ammunition can turn a rather anemic round into a formidable self defense choice. I know it wouldn't be mine. CCI’s Velocitor cartridge serves better against human-sized threats. Its 40 grain CPHP bullet is loaded to a muzzle velocity of 1,435 fps for a muzzle energy of 183 fps. Not quite the Stinger’s power level, but the Velocitor heavier expanding bullet has a greater chance of penetrating to a depth where it can find a vital organ. The truth is an intruder wouldn't be happy to see any of the weapons mentioned, including the .22 used against them. This is just another video in addition to yours, Rockstar.

https://www.rugerpistolforums.com/threads/the-most-powerful-22-lr-40-grain-hollow-point-ammo.40227/





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmQOh_m6Ch8

[MaDef]

While .22's can be used defensively, all things considered it is way down on the list of effective & Reliable calibers for stopping threats.

[Rockstar]

Stopping power is a myth. The .22 LR has killed more people than any other caliber in the U.S.

Btw,

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Florida is set to become the 26th state to allow citizens to carry firearms without a permit under legislation outlined Monday by Republican House Speaker Paul Renner.

Stopping Power: Myths, Legends, and Realities
January 16, 2013 • by Sydney Vail, MD

https://www.policemag.com/340890/stopping-power-myths-legends-and-realities

As a trauma surgeon and a tactical medical specialist, I am often asked by law enforcement officers what caliber and type of handgun ammunition offers the most stopping power. I can't answer that question. Let me explain why.

The ammunition most commonly carried by law enforcement officers is a hollow-point configuration or expanding full metal jacket bullet, typically in one of five calibers, including .38/.357, 9mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Other calibers are used in some departments. But for the sake of this discussion, let's stick with the most common rounds. These handgun rounds perform very differently based on a number of key factors that I'd like to discuss.

At most agencies it is typical for either the rangemaster or lead firearms trainer to choose specific ammunition (caliber and/or bullet type) based on the results of ammunition being run through a series of ballistic tests, most commonly the FBI's ballistic laboratory testing. Marketing by ammunition companies also influences how agencies choose the specific ammunition for front line officers to carry.

Unfortunately, the information that agencies are using to choose the ammo for their officers is generally based on hype as well as the flawed standardized testing using ballistic gel and measurements of the depth of penetration into ballistic gel, degree of bullet expansion, and other factors. Usually, actual data on human body wound ballistics is not available to agencies when they are choosing ammo for their officers.

What is most unfortunate is that the testing of modern bullets does not give a complete picture of what a particular ammunition configuration will do in the human body to incapacitate it in a timely fashion, in other words, stopping power. The testing results "infer" or "simulate" what is believed to happen in the human body, but I can tell you that from my experience operating on gunshot patients that this just is not the case.

So back to the question at hand about determining stopping power. If you are expecting me to tell you which brand and which bullet caliber and type to use for the best or most reliable stopping power, you are going to be disappointed. But I will tell you about the factors that determine stopping power.

Kinetic Energy

Most officers think that a larger bullet and higher velocity equal more "kinetic" energy, yielding more stopping power than a smaller bullet with the same velocity. Here's the reality:

We know that the equation for kinetic energy is KE = ½mv2 (KE is kinetic energy, m is mass of object, and v2 is velocity squared). This equation tells us how much energy will be derived from a combination of bullet grain weight and muzzle velocity.

Now we need to go back a step and define stopping power. Is it the ability of a particular ammunition to:

Immediately incapacitate a threat?
Eventually incapacitate a threat?
Slow down a threat?
Render a person less able to remain a threat?
Knock the threat to the ground?
I believe the definition of stopping power should be a particular ammunition's effectiveness to render a person unable to offer resistance or remain a threat to the officer, an intended victim, or self.

So how does ammunition accomplish this? You have two options. You can use a really large round at very high velocity like the 30mm cannon rounds from an Apache helicopter's M230 Chain Gun, which produces substantial kinetic energy, or you can place your shot where it has the most effect. Obviously, shot placement is the only realistic option for a law enforcement officer.

A .40 caliber bullet shot into the shirtless torso of a person causes a degree of injury due to the body absorbing the bullet's energy and dispersing it in front of and around the path of the bullet. The projectile also tears through the tissue. This means that the kinetic energy of this typically low-velocity (less than 1,500 feet per second) bullet will create both a permanent cavity and to a much lesser extent a temporary cavity.

But does this ammunition have acceptable stopping power? Only if it hits a vital structure that would "stop" the target from continuing the fight.

The Target Variable

Consider that the same ammunition shot into the torso of an officer wearing a ballistic vest involves the same forces, but they are dispersed over a greater surface area in order to dissipate those forces, which, hopefully, prevents penetration of the body and allows the officer to continue in the fight.

So is the stopping power the same or different for these two scenarios? The kinetic energy is the same, the tissue injury is different.

Another way to look at this is to think about a bowling ball as a projectile and how it might perform in two different scenarios. If someone shoots it out of a cannon into a brick wall, the large mass and high velocity will likely result in a significant hole in that wall. But if the same bowling ball is shot out of a cannon into a strong net made of Kevlar, it will likely have all of its energy taken up by the net and not allow penetration. It has the same energy to lose in its intended target but different targets yield different results. A bowling ball fired from a cannon has high kinetic energy and excellent stopping power that far exceeds any ammo you could carry on duty, but the effect it has on the target is still determined by shot placement and the nature of the target.

Real Gunshot Wounds

The point here is that no single ammunition that is typically used by law enforcement officers today can reliably claim to have superior stopping power.

I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result. People and animals shot with 10mm rounds and .357 SIG rounds have continued to run from the police. I have been on scene as a tactical medical provider when a suicidal person shot himself in the head with a .45 Colt round resulting in instant death. And I have seen the same results in suicides that used smaller calibers, including .22, .25, and .32. I have also seen people hit with 9mm, .40, and .45 without so much as staggering or slowing their verbal or physical activities.

So we come back to the original question: Which ammunition has the best stopping power? I can't answer that question. What I can say is that you should look for ammunition that reliably lives up to its claims of penetration and expansion but don't believe that these two factors alone are related to stopping power.

The ultimate stopping power rests with your training with your weapon system. Accurate hits in any reasonable caliber will "stop" a person if that person has experienced enough brain or spinal cord damage to interrupt regular neurologic impulses from reaching vital areas of the body or the person has hemorrhaged enough blood to lower his or her blood pressure where the brain no longer is able to function well. You can also stop a person if a major bone shatters after a bullet injures it, but does that stop the fight?

Stopping power is a marketing tool and should be dropped from our discussions of ballistic performance until such time as ammunition effectiveness is measured by more means than just the results of gelatin and barrier tests. When ammunition companies or regulatory agencies begin to use computer simulations, simulant tests, animal models, autopsy results, and trauma surgeon operation reports with hospital summaries to determine the effectiveness of their products, then we will know which ammunition can be labeled as having the "best stopping power." And this claim will be based on scientific data rather than incomplete ballistic testing.

Until then, shot placement with any commercially available ammunition will offer you the best chance of maximizing your duty ammunition's stopping power.

Sydney Vail MD, FACS, is an associate professor of surgery on the trauma faculty at Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center and Penn State College of Medicine in Hershey, Pa. He also serves as director of tactical medicine programs for the Arizona Department of Public Safety and Maricopa County (Ariz.) Sheriff's Office SWAT teams.

[MaDef]

Who said anything about "stopping power"? I didn't. Terminal ballistics on the other hand is real and quantifiable. and it is a fact that the .22 rimfire falls on the lower end of that scale.

[Catfish]

Found this interesting.. apart from other details evena subsonic bullet creates supersonic flow at the flanks
"Schlieren" is a german word for streaks or flow marks. Don't know why they use the german one here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPwdlEgLn5Q

[Sean C]

"Schlieren" is a german word for streaks or flow marks. Don't know why they use the german one here.

That's just the commonly used name for the setup they're using. Probably because it was invented by German physicist August Toepler.

[Rockstar]

Found this interesting.. apart from other details evena subsonic bullet creates supersonic flow at the flanks
"Schlieren" is a german word for streaks or flow marks. Don't know why they use the german one here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPwdlEgLn5Q

I’d imagine the guy who invented it was German. The name by which he called it just stuck. The U.S. English language is like that. Sure beats calling it the ‘slow motion illuminated air flow & wave photographic detection system’ or ‘the thingy that takes really kewl pictures of air’. :). You say optik, we say optic. I spell house but pronounce it like you do because that’s how we roll in Wisconsin. ;)

Nice video though

[Rockstar]

Who said anything about "stopping power"? I didn't. Terminal ballistics on the other hand is real and quantifiable. and it is a fact that the .22 rimfire falls on the lower end of that scale.

22's can be used defensively, all things considered it is way down on the list of effective & Reliable calibers for stopping threats



When you use words such as terminal ballistics, effectiveness, reliability for stopping threats. To me are all the factors given when discussing ballistics i.e. ‘stopping power’ Sorry if I’m wrong, but that’s what I got out of it.

As I stated earlier it’s my opinion ballistics are not as important as shot placement & training. I’ve seen .25 cal APC ricochet and bounce right off a breast bone. Whereas as .22 lr like a 9mm will smash clean through. If you’re good with a 9mm that’s great, Anyone good with a .22 lr can do the same kind of damage and most likely place all rounds in the bullseye due to greatly reduced recoil.


Real Gunshot Wounds

The point here is that no single ammunition that is typically used by law enforcement officers today can reliably claim to have superior stopping power.

I have seen a .22 caliber bullet completely incapacitate someone and a .45 ACP fail to achieve that result. People and animals shot with 10mm rounds and .357 SIG rounds have continued to run from the police. I have been on scene as a tactical medical provider when a suicidal person shot himself in the head with a .45 Colt round resulting in instant death. And I have seen the same results in suicides that used smaller calibers, including .22, .25, and .32. I have also seen people hit with 9mm, .40, and .45 without so much as staggering or slowing their verbal or physical activities.

So we come back to the original question: Which ammunition has the best stopping power? I can't answer that question. What I can say is that you should look for ammunition that reliably lives up to its claims of penetration and expansion but don't believe that these two factors alone are related to stopping power.

The ultimate stopping power rests with your training with your weapon system. Accurate hits in any reasonable caliber will "stop" a person if that person has experienced enough brain or spinal cord damage to interrupt regular neurologic impulses from reaching vital areas of the body or the person has hemorrhaged enough blood to lower his or her blood pressure where the brain no longer is able to function well. You can also stop a person if a major bone shatters after a bullet injures it, but does that stop the fight?

Like Bill Jordan said, Ballistics is fine, but accuracy is final.

You take a 10 round magazine of 9mm, 10mm or .45 acp pistol. And I’ll take a 30 round magazine filled with .22 cal. WinMags in a PMR30. All can do damage and kill in one shot but because of the greatly reduced recoil I bet I’ll get more rounds in the bullseye than you and still have plenty left over :D

Then there is the human factor to contend with too as the good doctor in the above article has experienced first hand and shared. Not everyone will be affected by ballistics, velocities, impact energy, bullet weight, perceived stopping power or even a well placed shot or shots no matter how much you train. They just keep going.

[MaDef]

why do you keep trying to convince me a .22 rimfire round is as effective as a larger caliber centerfire round? Are you a .22 salesman or something?

You take a 10 round magazine of 9mm, 10mm or .45 acp pistol. And I’ll take a 30 round magazine filled with .22 cal. WinMags in a PMR30. All can do damage and kill in one shot but because of the greatly reduced recoil I bet I’ll get more rounds in the bullseye than you and still have plenty left over

putting aside you handicapping me with your 30rnds vs allowing me 10rnds, The holes I put in the bullseye will still be bigger than yours. :03:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

https://i.redd.it/jd723x01lyka1.jpghttps://i.redd.it/jd723x01lyka1.jpg (https://i.redd.it/jd723x01lyka1.jpg)

[mapuc]

^ Me think he has misunderstood a thing or two

Markus

[em2nought]

^ Me think he has misunderstood a thing or two

Markus

Uniform is "Cambodian" so... :03:

[les green01]

defense shooting is max 10 feet the gunfight at the ok corral farest was 15 feet closet was 5 feet so we are not talking Hickok vs Tutt in springfield mo range at 75 yards i pack anything from a 22,380 to 45,500 mag now the 4 inch 500 s&w mag might be a little too much but you never know they might bring a grizz to the fight,main thing is to know the weapon and how it handles and practice every chance you get

[Aktungbby]

In today newspaper: "Gun store tracking put on hold" Visa and Mastercard have paused their decision to start categorizing purchases at gunshops; a significant win for conservative groups Second Amendment advocates who felt tracking gunship purchases would inadertantly discriminate against legal firearms purchases. The decision is a defeat for gun control groups that hoped categorization of credit/debit card purchases would allow authorities to see 'red flags' incl. mass ammo purchases before a mass shooting etc. Several gun lobby pushback and conservative politicians, incl. GOP state attorneys threatening legal action caused the pause. Visa indicated legal pushback was partially the reason for the pause. The issue is 'up in the air' at the moment inho; gun control fanatics will undoubtedly try again...

[August]

defense shooting is max 10 feet the gunfight at the ok corral farest was 15 feet closet was 5 feet so we are not talking Hickok vs Tutt in springfield mo range at 75 yards i pack anything from a 22,380 to 45,500 mag now the 4 inch 500 s&w mag might be a little too much but you never know they might bring a grizz to the fight,main thing is to know the weapon and how it handles and practice every chance you get




My old Army Team Sergeant used to say that pistols are only as accurate as a thrown baseball and have about the same effective range. At 15 feet most people would miss a target with a baseball, especially in a tense situation.

[les green01]

My old Army Team Sergeant used to say that pistols are only as accurate as a thrown baseball and have about the same effective range. At 15 feet most people would miss a target with a baseball, especially in a tense situation.

he had that right most people if they never been in a firefight going piss all over themselves and cant really describe the blood rush for home defense i rather use my old 870 cant miss with that

[MaDef]

That is why you practice, practice, and then practice some more. Anything past 15 yards and I'll use a shotgun/rifle if given a choice.

[Sean C]

Many people overestimate the spread of shotgun shot - especially if they're unfamiliar with the type of choke their shotgun may be fitted with. Just sayin'.