Egyptian army sets 48-hour ultimatum

[Jimbuna]

Islamist President Mohammed Morsi has had a year to put Egypts house in order but the first signs that the armed forces are dissatisfied appear to be coming to the surface.


The head of the armed forces described Sunday's protests as an "unprecedented" expression of the popular will.
But in a statement read out by a spokesman on state television on Monday evening, Gen Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said the army would not get involved in politics or government.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23133174

[Wolferz]

Their military won't get involved in politics or government?
But they're issuing ultimatums with a deadline?
Let the people find and elect another puppet.
Huh?

[Jimbuna]

Certainly mixed messages at such an early stage but the army has a history of getting involved so I'm wondering if they're covering themselves with statements where they can say they were justified in the eventual action they took.

[Herr-Berbunch]

That's the way to treat your electorates. Contempt and aggression (or attempt to), works the world over. :doh:

[August]

The strife going on in Egypt is not the fault of the military. The way they see it is whether to stand by and watch their country tear itself apart or step up and tell both sides to cool it.

It can be a fine line to walk.

[Oberon]

The military would probably do a better job of it than the current administration...

I can see a 'Government of national unity' being created within the next week or two, how long it'll last will depend how long it's propped up by the military...but for the moment the military are loved by the people...the same people who were protesting against them a year ago for supposedly supporting Mubarak. :hmmm::haha:

[HundertzehnGustav]

The strife going on in Egypt is not the fault of the military. The way they see it is whether to stand by and watch their country tear itself apart or step up and tell both sides to cool it.

It can be a fine line to walk.

the military have a difficult position in this.
last year, they tried to get a place in teh system, but for a reason or another... didnt.
Now they play the Ref.

i hope they stick to that position, for the leaders of the army are Egyptians themselves...

and nothing would be sadder than an army-run egypt.

I hope Egypt becomes what it once was - a place of bright people looking for wisdom and knowledge, of civilisation and stability.

[Jimbuna]

Well Morsi is adamant he won't change direction so the ball will be back in the armies court in a day or so.

[soopaman2]

The army... Yeah, military always knows best.

I have flashbacks of how Musharraf (sp?) of Pakistan came into power.

This is a power grab disgused as a noble peaceloving gesture to the rest of the world.

The world will allow it, as Morsi ended up being more extreme than Mubarak.

But what will the people inherit...?

[Mr Quatro]

Did you see all of the Egyptian army helicopters flying over the rioting crowds flying the national colors?

That was really cool and a sign to whose side they are on.

Seems this rioting has unity with the same people that were fighting each other last year now joining together against the Islamist President Morsi and the brotherhood rules being exacted on the nation.

From Turkey to Egypt things are not going well for the brotherhood.

[Stealhead]

Well the Army has the support of every Egyptian that is not pro Morsi.I do not feel that it is a power grab if the Army want to grab power they could have done it at any time.

[Stealhead]

I have flashbacks of how Musharraf (sp?) of Pakistan came into power.




That is a poor example he came into power under an obvious coup.

In this case the army has no choice unless they want to allow the entire government to collapse which would be much worse.In some countries the military really is the best option as head of government.

[Jimbuna]

That may well be the only option now unless political stability can be restored which I somehow doubt.

[Oberon]

There's little doubt that what happens in Egypt over the coming days is going to be watched very carefully by the Middle East and Northern Africa alike, being the linchpin between the two.

[Stealhead]

There's little doubt that what happens in Egypt over the coming days is going to be watched very carefully by the Middle East and Northern Africa alike, being the linchpin between the two.


I would say that The United States will also be observing with great interest.

[Oberon]

I would say that The United States will also be observing with great interest.

Indeed. Morsi has called the armies bluff, and that puts the army in a very awkward spot.
If they overthrow Morsi then they are technically overthrowing a democratically elected regime, and that's not going to look good on the diplomatic memo to Washington who pays for the army. Furthermore, the longer they hold on to the power that they will receive when they overthrow Morsi, the more the people in the street will turn against them.
However, if they don't act then Morsi will get even more confident and Egypt will fall into complete and utter chaos.

Personally I think the Egyptian army will do the following:
1) At the end of the 48 hour deadline they will unilaterally declare a state of national emergency and set a curfew. This will get the people off the street (in theory).
2) They will meet with Morsi and the opposition and either force an agreement for new elections or the creation of a 'government of national unity' with all of the different factions in Egypt represented on a council. This council is likely to be short lived but it will make the people on the street think that they have achieved something whilst still keeping the Muslim Brotherhoods hand in play. It only has to last long enough for the people to clear the streets and then it can collapse and new elections will probably be held.
3) With the streets clear, Morsi no longer in direct control and the military also not in direct control, the people will be appeased, Washington will be appeased and the Muslim Brotherhood, while annoyed, will also be partially appeased as they will still have some say in the matter.

Obviously there are going to be many who will not be appeased by this, and I dare say that Tahrir Square will be the scene of many many more protests before the year is out, but what the military is desparate to do is to prevent this from spiralling out of control into all out civil war, which some in Egypt (including ex-generals) think that it has the potential to do.
Either way, the long term effect that this will have on Egypts economy will be quite devastating to a nation that is already in pretty bad financial shape, and this is by no means even the beginning of the end of Egypts problems sadly.

[Stealhead]

At any rate the price of bread and other needs will certainly increase which hurts every Egyptian.
Which ever solution that seems to solve that problem will please at least short term will please the populace.
In the end if the majority of a nation gets at least its basic needs things become more or less stable.After all what people are most willing to go
Mau Mau(:sunny:) over is lack of basic needs.

[garren]

Indeed. Morsi has called the armies bluff, and that puts the army in a very awkward spot.
If they overthrow Morsi then they are technically overthrowing a democratically elected regime, and that's not going to look good on the diplomatic memo to Washington who pays for the army. Furthermore, the longer they hold on to the power that they will receive when they overthrow Morsi, the more the people in the street will turn against them.
However, if they don't act then Morsi will get even more confident and Egypt will fall into complete and utter chaos.

Personally I think the Egyptian army will do the following:
1) At the end of the 48 hour deadline they will unilaterally declare a state of national emergency and set a curfew. This will get the people off the street (in theory).
2) They will meet with Morsi and the opposition and either force an agreement for new elections or the creation of a 'government of national unity' with all of the different factions in Egypt represented on a council. This council is likely to be short lived but it will make the people on the street think that they have achieved something whilst still keeping the Muslim Brotherhoods hand in play. It only has to last long enough for the people to clear the streets and then it can collapse and new elections will probably be held.
3) With the streets clear, Morsi no longer in direct control and the military also not in direct control, the people will be appeased, Washington will be appeased and the Muslim Brotherhood, while annoyed, will also be partially appeased as they will still have some say in the matter.

Obviously there are going to be many who will not be appeased by this, and I dare say that Tahrir Square will be the scene of many many more protests before the year is out, but what the military is desparate to do is to prevent this from spiralling out of control into all out civil war, which some in Egypt (including ex-generals) think that it has the potential to do.
Either way, the long term effect that this will have on Egypts economy will be quite devastating to a nation that is already in pretty bad financial shape, and this is by no means even the beginning of the end of Egypts problems sadly.


I think they are headed towards a long and bloody civil war no matter what they do until one side clearly dominates all the others so badly that the few that remain will be so badly beaten they will be forced to submit and do as instructed just to not be completely exterminated. And that's what I think should be done. Let them fight it out and may the best side win. I think the time for talk is over for a lot of people.

I know we live in a politically correct world now where everyone is supposed to be hyper-sensitive and care but I don't believe in that girlie nonsense. When I'm bullied, I send teeth down throats. I don't play games or give love taps. I hit and hit with purpose and make my enemy feel pain like he's never felt before and I make him submit and beg for mercy. That's what needs to happen here.

The world is just not big enough and there's going to be war because of it. People just need to get used to that fact. Does it suck? Sure it does. But that's life. Nothing is equal and nothing is fair but it is what it is. Make the best of it and fight for your side to the death if you believe so strongly in something. If you're not willing to die for it then you never really cared enough to begin with. or get off the pot as they say.

[Oberon]

At any rate the price of bread and other needs will certainly increase which hurts every Egyptian which ever solution that seems to solve that problem will please at least short term the populace.

This is a pretty good article from a man who knows the Middle East as well as any westerner can.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23151452

The term 'better the devil you know' comes to mind, something I always consider when you get uprisings.

[Stealhead]

This is a pretty good article from a man who knows the Middle East as well as any westerner can.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23151452

The term 'better the devil you know' comes to mind, something I always consider when you get uprisings.


You're fast I added a little to my post... the mind is slower than the brain.:oops:

Will digest the article.

[Red October1984]

I read the book A Soldier's Dream about Captain Travis Patriquin.

If we send troops, we better send people like him. Somebody who knows the culture, language, and religion. Somebody who can talk to the people easily.

:hmmm:

I haven't been following this as close as i used to... :hmmm:

[Stealhead]

It is extremely unlikely that any US troops will be sent to Egypt for any reason other than the regular training that we do in Egypt.I am guessing that you where unaware of that until just now.That training has nothing to do with riot control though or anything of that nature.It is mainly deployment training we also do a lot of training in Morocco.I have had the pleasure of watching a class of Moroccan airborne troops go on their first jump...they where not so enthusiastic when the time came and unlike the US military you can not refuse to jump and they "inspire" those that refuse with kidney punches and they just kick them out the door the C-130 was full of vomit..I hear that Egyptian paras are much braver than Moroccan paras.

[Red October1984]

It is extremely unlikely that any US troops will be sent to Egypt for any reason other than the regular training that we do in Egypt.I am guessing that you where unaware of that until just now.That training has nothing to do with riot control though or anything of that nature.It is mainly deployment training we also do a lot of training in Morocco.I have had the pleasure of watching a class of Moroccan airborne troops go on their first jump...they where not so enthusiastic when the time came and unlike the US military you can not refuse to jump and they "inspire" those that refuse with kidney punches and they just kick them out the door the C-130 was full of vomit..I hear that Egyptian paras are much braver than Moroccan paras.

I'm not aware of a whole lot in the mideast/africa right now.


EDIT: Sorry. I have a major situation to deal with right now. That post was a bit rushed. I can't do a whole lot right now.

[HundertzehnGustav]

I would say that The United States will also be observing with great interest.
the NSA fo` sho`!:D

[Jimbuna]

Indeed. Morsi has called the armies bluff, and that puts the army in a very awkward spot.
If they overthrow Morsi then they are technically overthrowing a democratically elected regime, and that's not going to look good on the diplomatic memo to Washington who pays for the army. Furthermore, the longer they hold on to the power that they will receive when they overthrow Morsi, the more the people in the street will turn against them.
However, if they don't act then Morsi will get even more confident and Egypt will fall into complete and utter chaos.

Personally I think the Egyptian army will do the following:
1) At the end of the 48 hour deadline they will unilaterally declare a state of national emergency and set a curfew. This will get the people off the street (in theory).
2) They will meet with Morsi and the opposition and either force an agreement for new elections or the creation of a 'government of national unity' with all of the different factions in Egypt represented on a council. This council is likely to be short lived but it will make the people on the street think that they have achieved something whilst still keeping the Muslim Brotherhoods hand in play. It only has to last long enough for the people to clear the streets and then it can collapse and new elections will probably be held.
3) With the streets clear, Morsi no longer in direct control and the military also not in direct control, the people will be appeased, Washington will be appeased and the Muslim Brotherhood, while annoyed, will also be partially appeased as they will still have some say in the matter.

Obviously there are going to be many who will not be appeased by this, and I dare say that Tahrir Square will be the scene of many many more protests before the year is out, but what the military is desparate to do is to prevent this from spiralling out of control into all out civil war, which some in Egypt (including ex-generals) think that it has the potential to do.
Either way, the long term effect that this will have on Egypts economy will be quite devastating to a nation that is already in pretty bad financial shape, and this is by no means even the beginning of the end of Egypts problems sadly.

Not particularly disagreeing with the above because it is certainly a viable possibility but if all the above appeasement becomes reality then I'm voting for you to be the next President of the United Nations :):03:

[Oberon]

Not particularly disagreeing with the above because it is certainly a viable possibility but if all the above appeasement becomes reality then I'm voting for you to be the next President of the United Nations :):03:

God help us all, or indeed, Allah. :haha:

Well, according to a member of the Muslim Brotherhood a 'full military coup' is currently underway in Cairo with 'tanks...moving through the streets'.
Given the vitriol in the latest exchanges between Morsi and the Generals I must admit the chances of appeasement are looking less likely, however I still would not rule out the Generals putting some form of council together although it is possible that they will cut the Muslim Brotherhood out of proceedings altogether...which whilst likely to be popular with the seculist revolutionaries of Egypt it is a rather short sighted move, one cannot give a sect power and then take it away again without creating serious ructions. There is, of course, also the diplomatic fallout of what would be a military coup in all but name. I doubt Washington would be sad to see the back of the MB but equally they cannot speak out in support of the coup because of their support for the democratic system.
We shall see what news the coming hours bring, the BBC has a rolling coverage at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23159066

Watch this space, as they say.

[Jimbuna]

BBC correspondents have reported an increased military presence in the capital and armoured vehicles have been seen moving through the streets.
The army had earlier held meetings with political and religious leaders to discuss the crisis.
But the ruling Freedom and Justice party - the political arm of Mr Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood - stayed away from these talks.


Not looking too good then :hmm2:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23157801

[Oberon]

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/3071/ac0m.jpg

APCs moving through the streets near Cairo University.

[eddie]

That's not going to be good for tourism over there now, is it! Of course going to Egypt on vacation right now, makes about as much sense as trusting the Vatican Bank,lol

[Betonov]

Our foreign ministry issued a recommendation to not go to Egypt for the time being.

But just as the last protests there, the tourist centers were unaffected.
No-go for that road less traveled tourism though

[Jimbuna]

My kid brother and his wife are off to Sharm el-Sheikh on the 19th.

[Oberon]

The resorts are alright, they have their own security forces and are generally quite isolated from the rest of Egypt, it's the cities where you could face problems.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Ukltimatum Over army aint letting him go anywhere.

at least that Freak aint got no army.
imagine Syria II in Egypt... ?!!!!:timeout:

[Jimbuna]

Rgr that.


There are unconfirmed reports that Egyptian officials have placed an international travel ban on Mr Morsi and other senior members of the Muslim Brotherhood.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23157801

[Betonov]

Lamisse in Cairo
emails: There are tanks, military presence around the palace. People are cheering for the army saying "heroes are here!"


Source: BBC

[Oberon]

Morsi is gone, a 'technocratic' government is set to be formed.

[CaptainHaplo]

Morsi is removed - and that is a GOOD thing. The Chief Justice has been selected as the interim leader. Huge blow for the Muslim Brotherhood - but don't expect them to take it quietly.

The people are going to get their way, but it is going to get ugly. They will learn that freedom is bought in blood - may they find it worth the price.

[HundertzehnGustav]

which is interesting at first sight... why did they do that. did he want to stirr the pot and then run off if people came for his scalp?

[MH]

which is interesting at first sight... why did they do that. did he want to stirr the pot and then run off if people came for his scalp?
No ....Egyptians are not like rest of the bunch.
They have sort of national unity and pride , although the Salafist and some MBs might resort to extremism now style Iraq or Syria.

[Jimbuna]

Simply wondering if this will have any impact, good or bad on Hosni Mubarak ? :hmm2:

[Betonov]

A statement that makes sense from the current black sheep of the world

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, an opponent of Mr Morsi, has said "whoever uses religion for political aims, or to benefit some and not others, will fall". Speaking to a Syrian state newspaper, he said: "You can't fool all the people all the time, let alone the Egyptian people who have a civilisation that is thousands of years old, and who espouse clear, Arab nationalist thought."

[Oberon]

although the Salafist and some MBs might resort to extremism now style Iraq or Syria.

That is my concern too, the primary thing that stopped them during Muburaks regime was the good level of security which has fallen through the floor since he was removed from power, so there could certainly be a backlash that could be quite bloody.

[Jimbuna]

In that case the army would probably impose martial law and the chances of winning an election by the MB would surely diminish.

[eddie]

It appears that the Army is coming down hard on the MB, several arrests already, Morsi under House arrest.

http://news.msn.com/world/muslim-brotherhood-leader-arrested-in-egypt

[Jimbuna]

Over 300 top MB people arrested so far and many more to come apparently.

[Skybird]

I cannot believe that so many EU poltiicans now are weeping for the army cracking down on the MB. It seems the EU operetta crew still has not learned anything. I for myself applaud the army'S intervention. I hope they hand over power to a civilian government that keeps the MB in check. You cannot have Sharia and Quran together with democratic values and humanism, is the detoriation of the situation of Jews and Chriostians in the countries of the Arab "Spring", the roiwng supression and discrmination and the raising rates of crimes committed against these minorities - is this telling nothing to EU idiots?

It's also revealing so much that Erdoghan and Turkey are amongst those condemning the Egyptian army the loudest. Their beloved fundamentalism project for Egypt ids beign pout in question. What an offence for the great sultan!

You want to keep Muslim fundamentalism in check? Rude power and rude force and an independent military is the only language that these fanatics understand. What is the EU thinking why Erdoghan tries so hard to break the sovereignty and power of the Turkish army, and its constitutional role? :hmmm: Democracy is just a train to board to reach a destination, and once you are there, you leave the train behind, said Erdoghan. One cannot find better words of warnings over the illusion to have a compromise between Shariah values and democratic and humanistic values.

BTW, even outside the MB there are still many Egyptians wanting their state to base on Shariah law. Something that many people oversee. They want the tourists back, they want to end their economic suffering. Thats why they raised against Mursi - not because they all of a sudden all turned into democrats and Wetsern-style humanists. It were not just the MB who increased anti-Christian discrimination over the past year, the MB found many supporters for that outside their own rows as well. Some years ago, over 80% of the Egyptian population were found wanting a Shariah based state. Can one really afford to forget, to ignore that?

[Oberon]

Skybird, it's political, they can't publicly come out and praise the army for overthrowing the Muslim Brotherhood because otherwise Russia and China would be on them like a sack of bricks for all the times they've criticised Russia and China for supporting military coups overthrowing democratic governments that the EU and America have supported.
But you can put good money on all the 'investigations' and 'punishments' that the EU and America have planned for the Egyptian army will be kicked into the long grass.
Behind closed doors, every western leader has breathed a sigh of relief, this you can be absolutely sure of, but publicly they cannot show it.

[Skybird]

I'm not so sure, remembering how EU applaudes the crackdown on the Turkish army, and the condemnation of Israeli army actions. Also, some spokesmen of German ME-related institutions - thinktanks and organisations, whom I admit just belong to the gang of usual suspects - have made comments today that leave no doubt where their deeply felt sympathies lie and that the loss of the MB' power is something they indeed cry big hot tears over. Especially Germany's foreign fool Westerwelle can also be trusted do indeed believe what he says.

Some people really believe what they say and act like, Oberon. Especially when it is about issues like this, or about Israel, or about Islam. That'S what makes it so worse and me so angry.

[eddie]

Over 300 top MB people arrested so far and many more to come apparently.

And some are fighting back it seems!

"El-Haddad, the Brotherhood party's spokesman, said a list has been drawn up of hundreds of Brotherhood members believed wanted for arrest, including himself.

"We don't know the details. The army is not giving details," he told The Associated Press. "It is a full-fledged coup and it is turning into a bloody one, too. They are arresting everybody."

Police shot dead six Islamists who opened fire on Marsa Matrouh's police headquarters as they drove past. Morsi supporters tried to storm a police station in the southern city of Minya, but where battled back by police, killing three, while other Islamists destroyed cars and shops and threw stones at a church in the nearby city of Deir Mawas, while police fired tear gas at them. Police and armed Morsi supporters also battled in the southern city of Assiut, another Islamist stronghold."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57592291/egypt-swears-in-supreme-court-chief-justice-adly-mansour-as-interim-president-after-mohammed-morsi-removed-by-military/

[HundertzehnGustav]

doood... O.o

drivebies on Police stations...?! what the hell?!
way to make yourselves unpopular...

such people want to influence and lead egypt after democratic elections? by killing the Police? the police as the easy target/soft version of the army?
:timeout:

:huh: woah!

way to go, egypt/muslims/whoever. Dum ars trucks

[Nippelspanner]

And some are fighting back it seems!

"El-Haddad, the Brotherhood party's spokesman, said a list has been drawn up of hundreds of Brotherhood members believed wanted for arrest, including himself.

"We don't know the details. The army is not giving details," he told The Associated Press. "It is a full-fledged coup and it is turning into a bloody one, too. They are arresting everybody."

Police shot dead six Islamists who opened fire on Marsa Matrouh's police headquarters as they drove past. Morsi supporters tried to storm a police station in the southern city of Minya, but where battled back by police, killing three, while other Islamists destroyed cars and shops and threw stones at a church in the nearby city of Deir Mawas, while police fired tear gas at them. Police and armed Morsi supporters also battled in the southern city of Assiut, another Islamist stronghold."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57592291/egypt-swears-in-supreme-court-chief-justice-adly-mansour-as-interim-president-after-mohammed-morsi-removed-by-military/

The religion of peace strikes again...

[Jimbuna]

And some are fighting back it seems!

"El-Haddad, the Brotherhood party's spokesman, said a list has been drawn up of hundreds of Brotherhood members believed wanted for arrest, including himself.

"We don't know the details. The army is not giving details," he told The Associated Press. "It is a full-fledged coup and it is turning into a bloody one, too. They are arresting everybody."

Police shot dead six Islamists who opened fire on Marsa Matrouh's police headquarters as they drove past. Morsi supporters tried to storm a police station in the southern city of Minya, but where battled back by police, killing three, while other Islamists destroyed cars and shops and threw stones at a church in the nearby city of Deir Mawas, while police fired tear gas at them. Police and armed Morsi supporters also battled in the southern city of Assiut, another Islamist stronghold."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57592291/egypt-swears-in-supreme-court-chief-justice-adly-mansour-as-interim-president-after-mohammed-morsi-removed-by-military/

Yes, this whole process is a long way from over but I reckon the MB (and them only) will eventually be subdued and sidelined if the Egyptian people see an upturn in their economic situation.

Unfortunately politics and all the potential problems that brings, will be an unavoidable part of that process.

[Tribesman]

Yes, this whole process is a long way from over but I reckon the MB (and them only) will eventually be subdued and sidelined if the Egyptian people see an upturn in their economic situation.

The problem there is that the move against the MB will invariably strengthen the various offshoots of Al-Nour.
Morsi and his idiots were dangerous, but those other nuts are really dangerous.
It looks set to follow the pattern of Algeria.


BTW, even outside the MB there are still many Egyptians wanting their state to base on Shariah law. Something that many people oversee. They want the tourists back, they want to end their economic suffering. Thats why they raised against Mursi - not because they all of a sudden all turned into democrats and Wetsern-style humanists. It were not just the MB who increased anti-Christian discrimination over the past year, the MB found many supporters for that outside their own rows as well. Some years ago, over 80% of the Egyptian population were found wanting a Shariah based state. Can one really afford to forget, to ignore that?
Is that a misplaced post from the Daily Mail letters page?
Shariah law?
Isn't that what they have now, isn't it what they had under the last dictator, isn't it what they had before that too?
Oh noes the 80% of Egyptians want something they have always had, it will be so scary if they get this thing they already have, we must stop them from getting the thing they have as if they get it then it won't be like it is and was it will be like errrrr.....well sorta like..... errrrr...its sharia innit:doh:

[Oberon]

Isn't that what they have now, isn't it what they had under the last dictator, isn't it what they had before that too?

I'm not aware of the Egyptian law being or being based upon Sharia law until the recent moves by Morsi to make it so. There might certainly be some concessions to it in places, the Muslim movement in Egypt is quite large after all, but it has always tried hard to be secular.

Fully agree with the comments on Al Nour though, those are the guys that are the nutjobs, and they have carte blanche to go all out now, I expect the Sinai will be very busy over the coming weeks.

[MH]

I'm not aware of the Egyptian law being or being based upon Sharia law until the recent moves by Morsi to make it so. There might certainly be some concessions to it in places, the Muslim movement in Egypt is quite large after all, but it has always tried hard to be secular.

Fully agree with the comments on Al Nours though, those are the guys that are the nutjobs, and they have carte blanche to go all out now, I expect the Sinai will be very busy over the coming weeks.

Its typical mambo jambo by T.
He himself doesn't know what hes talking about.:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Possibly as many as three MB protestors killed so far...hope this doesn't turn into a bloodbath.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23202096

[Tribesman]

Its typical mambo jambo by T.
He himself doesn't know what hes talking about.:haha:
Sorry Mr regional expert, I bow before your supreme knowledge and pathetic trolling to humbly tell you you are talking rubbish...again..

I'm not aware of the Egyptian law being or being based upon Sharia law until the recent moves by Morsi to make it so. There might certainly be some concessions to it in places, the Muslim movement in Egypt is quite large after all, but it has always tried hard to be secular.

Well Oberon, for a fuller answer it depends how far you want to go back before Morsi.
I suppose Mubarak would be a good little step, as he widened the scope which had been set by Sadat in the 1971 constitution where he wrote that sharia shall be the principle source of jurisprudence. Before that you might want to go back to the 1949 changes where you had the reforms finalised following the abolishion of foriegners courts under the '36 montreaux treaty which itself was a legacy of the sharia system set up within the mixed courts and national courts by the khedive in 1875.
The reason for the post was that it was the same nonsense claim Sky made about Syria, though in Syria the principle source of jurisprudence being sharia law was from the 1953&1975 constitutions not 1949&1971 like in Egypt.

Its fairly simple, if the principle source of law is sharia then they have sharia law, if the constitution states that it is so then it is so.

[MH]

Sorry Mr regional expert, I bow before your supreme knowledge and pathetic trolling to humbly tell you you are talking rubbish...again..



You still owe me the link mr expert on it all lol.

Well Oberon.....

:rotfl2:

OK have fun mr spook , sorry for interrupting... that is trolling.:haha:

Carry on .

[Oberon]

Well Oberon, for a fuller answer it depends how far you want to go back before Morsi.
I suppose Mubarak would be a good little step, as he widened the scope which had been set by Sadat in the 1971 constitution where he wrote that sharia shall be the principle source of jurisprudence. Before that you might want to go back to the 1949 changes where you had the reforms finalised following the abolishion of foriegners courts under the '36 montreaux treaty which itself was a legacy of the sharia system set up within the mixed courts and national courts by the khedive in 1875.
The reason for the post was that it was the same nonsense claim Sky made about Syria, though in Syria the principle source of jurisprudence being sharia law was from the 1953&1975 constitutions not 1949&1971 like in Egypt.

Its fairly simple, if the principle source of law is sharia then they have sharia law, if the constitution states that it is so then it is so.

Well, really I'd go back as far as the beginning of the Republic as before that it was pretty much under the British thumb, although you can't really count the United Arab Republic too much since it didn't last very long, in fact, it wasn't until 1980 that Islamic law crept into the constitution through an amendment that had it as the principal source of legislative laws. However, how this is implemented is two fold, in regards to personal issues such as marriage, divorce and inheritance the law is based around Sharia however when it comes down to the penal code it's non-religious entirely, whether it was ratified before or after 1980.
So while the principal source of the law may be written in the 1980 amendment to the 1971 constitution as being Sharia law, in practice it's not through and through a Sharia based constitution, otherwise the penal code would also be based on Sharia law, which it is not.
Egypt has been treading a fine line between secularism and Islam for at least a hundred years, certainly since the Republic was formed, but right now I think the people just want a nation that isn't a) in civil war or b) completely lawless, and given how the police generally ignore anything to do with the Muslim Brotherhood, most people in Egypt don't want anything to do with the Brotherhood any more, in fact it could be equally argued that the only reason the Brotherhood got in to power in the first place is that in a choice between the Brotherhood and a stooge of Mubarak, the people wanted nothing to do with Mubarak.
Of course the Brotherhood has a lot of supporters, and there's going to be a lot of bloodshed between these supporters and the army/law enforcement officers over the coming weeks, I think you'd have to be blind not to realise that, but unless the military converts to Islam or the Islamists get a strong hold within the military I cannot see Egypt becoming as religiously dominated as, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran, not in this century anyway...but, you know, stranger things have happened so I can't say with a hundred percent certainty that this would be so.

[MH]

Well, really I'd go back as far as the beginning of the Republic as before that it was pretty much under the British thumb, although you can't really count the United Arab Republic too much since it didn't last very long, in fact, it wasn't until 1980 that Islamic law crept into the constitution through an amendment that had it as the principal source of legislative laws. However, how this is implemented is two fold, in regards to personal issues such as marriage, divorce and inheritance the law is based around Sharia however when it comes down to the penal code it's non-religious entirely, whether it was ratified before or after 1980.
So while the principal source of the law may be written in the 1980 amendment to the 1971 constitution as being Sharia law, in practice it's not through and through a Sharia based constitution, otherwise the penal code would also be based on Sharia law, which it is not.
Egypt has been treading a fine line between secularism and Islam for at least a hundred years, certainly since the Republic was formed, but right now I think the people just want a nation that isn't a) in civil war or b) completely lawless, and given how the police generally ignore anything to do with the Muslim Brotherhood, most people in Egypt don't want anything to do with the Brotherhood any more, in fact it could be equally argued that the only reason the Brotherhood got in to power in the first place is that in a choice between the Brotherhood and a stooge of Mubarak, the people wanted nothing to do with Mubarak.


:salute:

[Tribesman]

Yes Oberon, it isn't through and through sharia law, but it is sharia law.
Therefore it is something they already have, just like Britain already has it.
It is why the initial statement in question was complete nonsense akin to a rant by Tommy Robinson.
It is why a statement like "OMG 80% of Egyptians want sharia law" is completely meaningless and belongs on the Daily Mail letters page.
Now if it was a case that 80% wanted a total implementation of sharia law over all aspects of the state and those people agreed that the specific version of sharia law they want must be an extremist salafist interpretation of sharia law then it would be a cause of concern, but it isn't so it isn't.


I agree with you about the election, it didn't show wide support for the MB, it showed that a narrow majority backed the coilition candidate against the militaries candidate.
A truer measure of their actual support would be the first round of that election which gave them less than 25%.
The real cause for concern is the vote which the Islamist Bloc got in the parliamentary election as they got 27%.

[eddie]

Possibly as many as three MB protestors killed so far...hope this doesn't turn into a bloodbath.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23202096

Looks like its turning into a bloodbath Jim!

"Supporters of ex-President Mohammed Morsi took to the streets in Egypt to push back against his ouster, and 30 people were killed in the ensuing violence."

http://news.msn.com/world/30-dead-hundreds-hurt-in-egypt-unrest

[TarJak]

Looks like its turning into a bloodbath Jim!

"Supporters of ex-President Mohammed Morsi took to the streets in Egypt to push back against his ouster, and 30 people were killed in the ensuing violence."

http://news.msn.com/world/30-dead-hundreds-hurt-in-egypt-unrest

I doubt it will stop there either. In a country with a 5000 odd year history that has only had 1 year of democratically elected rule, the factions look like continuing the bloodshed.

[Jimbuna]

Looks like its turning into a bloodbath Jim!

"Supporters of ex-President Mohammed Morsi took to the streets in Egypt to push back against his ouster, and 30 people were killed in the ensuing violence."

http://news.msn.com/world/30-dead-hundreds-hurt-in-egypt-unrest


Sadly, tis beginning to look that way :nope: