Question about Fleet Boats

[Red October1984]

I've got a question about Fleet Boats.

This video was put up on the Subsim Facebook Page. How a World War II Submarine Works (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh8rLrQyCkM)

Early on in the video it says that underneath the crew's quarters and forward of the aft batteries there is a space used as a Sonar Room. It's highlighted at 2:28

:hmmm:

Is there a better diagram for this? I didn't know there was a sonar room under there. I thought the main Sonar Equipment was in the Conning Tower. Is this just an Aux. Sonar Room or is the equipment in the Conning Tower the Aux. Sonar Equipment that is more widely used.

[Stealhead]

Well that is not really a fleet boat that is either a GUPPY or a Fleet Snorkel post war modifications of Gato,Balao,and Tench class boats(mainly the last two) they redesigned the inner layouts of those conversions quite a bit to accommodate improved technology.

On a WWII fleet boat (any class) the sonar station was in the conning tower and there was another station for the JP head (that "T" looking device on the port bow) which was in the fore torpedo room later the JP was controlled by a motor and did not need a man in the fore torpedo room to rotate it manually.

The Fleet Snorkels and Guppy boats had their own separate sonar room unlike during WWII where most of the sonar was in the conning tower and shared the space with the radar operators and the TDC operator as well as the CO or XO whom ever was manning the scope during an attack.The location of the sonar room varied from conversions to conversion.

Many of the Guppys also had one engine removed allowing for more batteries to power the sonar systems.

Fleet Snorkels where a lower cost alternative to the Guppy which was more advanced and therefore expensive.

I am fairly certain that the location shown in that video is incorrect the lower floor space is very cramped and in the location shown would be right next to the batteries other diagrams I have seen show the sonar room to have been either fore the control room(they cut down the ward room a bit) or in the floor space but below directly below the control room which makes sense being right below the control room and also not right next to batteries.


WWII Gato the layout would have been the same more or less for any fleet boat (sonar being in the conning tower)
http://www.ussflierproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Submarine-Cutaway.jpg

[TorpX]

I think that description is poorly phrased. IMO, the "sonar room" referred to in the film, is for sound equipment and not the sonar station we usually think of. Like the battery rooms or the pump room, they would not be manned, and would be too short to stand up in. I think the sonar station would have to be in the conning tower, or the control room at the very least.

Of course, the boat pictured is a post-WWII design, and I could be all wet, but this is my guess.


Edit:

Rendered null and void by Steelheads answer. :)

[Red October1984]

Of course, the boat pictured is a post-WWII design, and I could be all wet, but this is my guess.

I knew it wasn't a normal WW2 Fleet Boat. I've read about Guppy boats but it didn't click at the time.

Well that is not really a fleet boat that is either a GUPPY or a Fleet Snorkel post war modifications of Gato,Balao,and Tench class boats(mainly the last two) they redesigned the inner layouts of those conversions quite a bit to accommodate improved technology.

On a WWII fleet boat (any class) the sonar station was in the conning tower and there was another station for the JP head (that "T" looking device on the port bow) which was in the fore torpedo room.

The Fleet Snorkels and Guppy boats had their own separate sonar room unlike during WWII where most of the sonar was in the conning tower and shared the space with the radar operators and the TDC operator as well as the CO or XO whom ever was manning the scope during an attack.The location of the sonar room varied from conversions to conversion.

Many of the Guppys also had one engine removed allowing for more batteries to power the sonar systems.

Fleet Snorkels where a lower cost alternative to the Guppy which was more advanced and therefore expensive.

I am fairly certain that the location shown in that video is incorrect the lower floor space is very cramped and in the location shown would be right next to the batteries other diagrams I have seen show the sonar room to have been either fore the control room(they cut down the ward room a bit) or in the floor space but below directly below the control room which makes sense

Thanks! That clears things up a bit. I knew that space was too small to be a proper sonar room.


It's a nice little video even if it's not 100% correct. :rock:

[Stealhead]

I think they got location mixed up I have a fairly reliable source "The Fleet Boat Submarine in the US Navy" in its diagram for the GUPPY the sound room is in the space below the control room.I suspect that this was an earlier design and later designs wisely removed the officers mess and use that space as a sound room the Guppys where more about submerged performance and they had one less engine which freed up space not available originally. Those spaces are not too small the crew did go down there to work on the pumps and such and the refrigerator was below the main deck as well it would just not be the ideal place to spend an extended period and on a WWII G,B,T that is where the pumps would be.

link for a WWII Gato diagram if you missed it.My book has much better diagram but it is too large to scan.
http://www.ussflierproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Submarine-Cutaway.jpg

[Red October1984]

I think they got location mixed up I have a fairly reliable source "The Fleet Boat Submarine in the US Navy" in its diagram for the GUPPY the sound room in the space below the control room.I suspect that this was an earlier design and later designs wisely chose to remove the officers mess and use that space as a sound room.Those spaces are not too small the crew did go down there to work on the pumps and such and the refrigerator was below the main deck as well it would just not be the ideal place to spend an extended period and on a WWII G,B,T that is where the pumps would be.

IIRC there were like 3 or 4 GUPPY designs. :hmmm: I know the USS Cavella that the Subsim members are familiar with is a GUPPY.....and I think that the submarine at Patriot's Point in SC is also a GUPPY.

I don't know much about GUPPY boats. :dead:

link for a WWII Gato diagram if you missed it.My book has much better diagram but it is too large to scan.
http://www.ussflierproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Submarine-Cutaway.jpg

Nice diagram, if a bit cluttered. I need one of these for my wall. Right now I've got a Submarines and U-boats Timeline type of posters up and the Kriegsmarine Chart that came with SH3 up on the wall now. Along with my STL Cardinals stuff...and the painting of an airplane.

A Gato would be nice.... The Subs and U-boats poster has a Gato and a Balao on it along with 24 other submarines from the C.L. Hunley to the USS Virginia with a US Sub class timeline along the bottom and a Submarine history timeline on the left side.

I've got some redecorating to do. :hmm2:

[Nuc]

IIRC there were like 3 or 4 GUPPY designs. :

A good run down on GUPPY and other post war diesel boats here
https://www.designed4submariners.com/Guppy_I.html

[Red October1984]

Thanks! :up:

[Red October1984]

That website explains on the GUPPY 1A page:

The sonar room was relocated from the forward torpedo room to a space under the galley.

So it's possible that the sub in the video is a GUPPY 1A. :hmmm:

[Stealhead]

You would have to look at the blueprints for each converted boats no two where the same.Though it would make sense if the early GUPPY versions has less ideal set ups.

The blueprints for most every ship ever to have served with the US Navy are available to the public and you can get them I just honestly am not sure how.Perhaps the US Naval Institute Press maybe ask a librarian.

In the mean time check out this site it has all of the Submarine operation manuals very neat stuff here ever wonder how the air conditioning worked? Or how the diesels worked and how to maintain them? Or how to maintain the 40mm Bofors? these manuals will tell you.

Click on the "Fleet Type Submarine Series" and then click on any of the 12 manuals.I have read many of them I work in refrigeration and was very curious how the A/C and refrigeration systems worked so I found that manual pretty interesting.Interesting thing is that our modern military manuals are written in about the same manner.



http://www.hnsa.org/doc/index.htm#ss

[Red October1984]

You would have to look at the blueprints for each converted boats no two where the same.Though it would make sense if the early GUPPY versions has less ideal set ups.

The blueprints for most every ship ever to have served with the US Navy are available to the public and you can get them I just honestly am not sure how.Perhaps the US Naval Institute Press maybe ask a librarian.

In the mean time check out this site it has all of the Submarine operation manuals very neat stuff here ever wonder how the air conditioning worked? Or how the diesels worked and how to maintain them? Or how to maintain the 40mm Bofors? these manuals will tell you.

Click on the "Fleet Type Submarine Series" and then click on any of the 12 manuals.I have read many of them I work in refrigeration and was very curious how the A/C and refrigeration systems worked so I found that manual pretty interesting.Interesting thing is that our modern military manuals are written in about the same manner.

Oh cool! Bookmarked. :up:

I'll check this out.

[Archer7seven]

Wow, those are a lot complicated systems.

[Red October1984]

Wow, those are a lot complicated systems.

Well. Keeping a submarine on combat duty is not child's play.

It's very interesting and very technical work. :hmmm:

Yes...it is very complicated...and it's going to be cool to learn about all of it. :arrgh!: