Boy Scouts of America votes to ease ban on gay members

[Gerald]

That will be easier to be gay.

National Commissioner Tico Perez: "This resolution dealt with youth, we have not changed our adult membership standards".The Boy Scouts of America organisation has voted to welcome openly gay scouts, ending a divisive ban.

But a ban on openly gay adult scout leaders will remain in place.

More than 60% of the national council, with 1,400 voting members, supported the change at a meeting in Texas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22650143

Note: 24 May 2013 Last updated at 01:01 GMT

[Tchocky]

Halfway there. Keep it up.

[August]

Back in my day the BSA wasn't about sex, let alone gay sex. It'll be sad if the Scout organization tears itself apart over this issue and that's what i'm afraid will happen.

[AVGWarhawk]

Promotional tool?

[GoldenRivet]

Back in my day the BSA wasn't about sex, let alone gay sex. It'll be sad if the Scout organization tears itself apart over this issue and that's what i'm afraid will happen.

Its not the same scouts as it was when i was in either

we earned knives and badges etc.

We learned important wilderness skills as kids... today its totally different. I doubt they even give knives anymore

[Tribesman]

Back in my day the BSA wasn't about sex, let alone gay sex.
Why was it banned back in your day then?

[Sailor Steve]

Sex with boys banned? I would have thought that was obvious.

[AVGWarhawk]

Its not the same scouts as it was when i was in either

we earned knives and badges etc.

We learned important wilderness skills as kids... today its totally different. I doubt they even give knives anymore

Sensitivity training. :yeah:

[Tribesman]

Sex with boys banned? I would have thought that was obvious.
Obvious?
Spell it out.

[Armistead]

I enjoyed being a BS for 3 years.

I'm not sure how I would feel about gay scout leaders. My issue is, least when I was in scouts, we often had to dress, take showers together. We went on long trips into the woods. Not sure I would want a male sexually attracted to males partaking of such with my teen son.

[Tribesman]

My issue is, least when I was in scouts, we often had to dress, take showers together.
So its the same as a sports team would do.
Do you support a ban on gays playing team sports or would you just settle for a ban on the coaches and other staff?

[soopaman2]

So who is in charge of this organization and makes such decisions to ban homosexuals?
(Now so kindly retract it, only after massive critisizm)
I want his name. Who is the big "pecker" of this organization?

He can use a trolling from 4 chan...

I have a sneaking suspicion this is based on some misinterpreted verse in the bible, and the head honchos personal opinion.

Guess what book of Leviticus, anti gay bible citers...

You can't eat pork or shelfish either, nor can you "pull out" during intercourse.

But ya know, pick and choose. pick and choose.

[Armistead]

So its the same as a sports team would do.
Do you support a ban on gays playing team sports or would you just settle for a ban on the coaches and other staff?

Thought this was about the BS? The issue for me is having adults attracted to the same sex being in situations where my childs body would be exposed. We don't put male coaches in the girls high school locker room because of sexual reasons. Sorry, if one is an adult gay male, I don't see how sexual tension wouldn't arise being alone with naked male teens. It's not fair to either party.

When I was in the scouts, when we went camping we often used open public showers. Would you want an open adult gay scout leader doing such with your child? How about sleeping in the same tent with your child? If the leader was open, the kids would know it, so it's not fair to expose them to that.

This issue is about children, not adults in sports, in which I have no problem with the gay issue.

[AVGWarhawk]

I enjoyed being a BS for 3 years.

I'm not sure how I would feel about gay scout leaders. My issue is, least when I was in scouts, we often had to dress, take showers together. We went on long trips into the woods. Not sure I would want a male sexually attracted to males partaking of such with my teen son.

I was in the BS from Cub Scout to Webelos. We never showered together. However, middle school and high school, taking a shower after gym was mandatory. It was a community shower/ Back in the day in local schools swimming was done completely naked. They did not want wet swimming trunks left in the lockers. I never knew if any of the others in my class were sexually attracted to other males. There is no sign on their chest that states they prefer males.

There simply is no easy answer.

[AVGWarhawk]

When I was in the scouts, when we went camping we often used open public showers. Would you want an open adult gay scout leader doing such with your child? How about sleeping in the same tent with your child? If the leader was open, the kids would know it, so it's not fair to expose them to that.



The question of adult gay scout leaders still remains.

[Webster]

Sex with boys banned? I would have thought that was obvious.

Obvious?
Spell it out.


wow :hmmm:

[Stealhead]

I was in the BS from Cub Scout to Webelos. We never showered together. However, middle school and high school, taking a shower after gym was mandatory. It was a community shower/ Back in the day in local schools swimming was done completely naked. They did not want wet swimming trunks left in the lockers. I never knew if any of the others in my class were sexually attracted to other males. There is no sign on their chest that states they prefer males.

There simply is no easy answer.

Right.In the military in basic and some times in deployed locations you have to shower with other men.I had no way of knowing if any of the people that where showering at the same as me where gay or straight or whatever.As you say not everyone wears it on their sleeve you can not be sure of a persons sexual preference.The stereotype is that a gay man is feminine and speaks with a lisp and walks around like a dandy.

[GoldenRivet]

So who is in charge of this organization and makes such decisions to ban homosexuals?
(Now so kindly retract it, only after massive critisizm)
I want his name. Who is the big "pecker" of this organization?

He can use a trolling from 4 chan...

I have a sneaking suspicion this is based on some misinterpreted verse in the bible, and the head honchos personal opinion.

Guess what book of Leviticus, anti gay bible citers...

You can't eat pork or shelfish either, nor can you "pull out" during intercourse.

But ya know, pick and choose. pick and choose.

I think it has more to do with what parents are comfortable with their boy scout children being exposed to.

i was 7 years old when i was in scouts, my exposure to homosexuality at that age was "We dont hate them, we dont make fun of them... we just dont do what they do." fair enough :03:

but if i had a kid in boy scouts, and i was going to have an adult take my kid off into secluded areas for camping trips or whatever... im going to know every thing i could reasonably be expected to know about that person beforehand... additionally, I'm going to send the kid out with the type of adult i want them to be heavily influenced by.

now by making that statement im not implying that gay men are more susceptible to child molestation than straight men. I am simply trying to make the point that when you put your son into a program for young (often pre-teen) men, you are probably expecting him to be exposed to some young man stuff - camping, fishing, hunting, rock climbing, trapping etc.

anything inherently sexual is not on the list anywhere.

for some parents, they might not necessarily want a "large influence" in a young man's life to be a homosexual male.

and i think that is fair.

you as a parent should have the right to decide what sort of adults interact with and or provide guidance to your young children.

as for banning openly gay boyscouts? Sexuality or sexual discussion has no place in boy scout activities. none. there shouldnt be a need to ban gay scouts because nobody should even be made aware of your sexual orientation at that point in your life.

[soopaman2]

When I went to highschool, one of our gym teachers was a shorthaired lesbian who used to watch the girls shower after field hockey games.

My wife was one of these women. This woman creeped all the girls out. She is not stained, well she married me, maybe she is ;)

So, we need to ban queers, queebs, or quays, from anything, they might stain our kids. Make them come home with a short haircut and a nose piercing, and a same sex friend.

God forbid someone is gay, Jeebus told me gays should be beheaded.

And even if he didn't say that, I 'll twist the word in a way to make my bigotry valid.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Sorry, if one is an adult gay male, I don't see how sexual tension wouldn't arise being alone with naked male teens.

I think, in the UK at least, that most quit being in the scouts around the time they enter their teens (no pun intended).

[GoldenRivet]

God forbid someone is gay, Jeebus told me gays should be beheaded.

now who is spreading hate?

you seem to blame a lot of this discord on Christianity.

1. I would like to see anywhere in the bible where Jesus said gays should be beheaded

2. i would like to see anywhere in the bible where Jesus said anyone should be beheaded

3. I would like to see anywhere in any written text where it is stated that 100% of Christians, undeniably hate homosexuals

to blame this boyscout thing on the bible, Jesus or Christians makes about as much sense as blaming it on dinosaurs

its all about individual preference of what parents want their children to be influenced by.

besides... they voted to end the gay ban and all anyone does is bitch about it.

[Armistead]

I was in the BS from Cub Scout to Webelos. We never showered together. However, middle school and high school, taking a shower after gym was mandatory. It was a community shower/ Back in the day in local schools swimming was done completely naked. They did not want wet swimming trunks left in the lockers. I never knew if any of the others in my class were sexually attracted to other males. There is no sign on their chest that states they prefer males.

There simply is no easy answer.

Things may have changed, I know in the 70's, during long camping trips we often all used the same public showers. I recall once after a long dirty hike, we all used the open showers outside. It may be leaders don't shower with the scouts today. Still, you see a lot of nakedness, etc.

Again, for me it's more about sexual tension and risk regarding children with adults. As I said, you don't see male coaches in the girls locker room because they would be aroused by the girls nakedness. I don't see how a gay male scout leader could ignore seeing numerous naked male teens. We are aroused by what we're attracted to. It doesn't make the person bad, just not the right situation for adults and children to be in.

If we're honest, if a open gay scout leader came to pick up your 15 year old son to take out into the woods for a 7 day trip, thoughts of concern would cross your mind. This isn't band camp, etc....

[Stealhead]

When I went to highschool, one of our gym teachers was a shorthaired lesbian who used to watch the girls shower after field hockey games.

My wife was one of these women. This woman creeped all the girls out. She is not stained, well she married me, maybe she is ;)




Wait wording is off here a bit.It sort reads as if your wife was the creepy short haired lesbian gym teacher.:up:

Anyway I think it is good that all female gym teachers are short haired lesbians it gives the young lesbian girls a role model. :03:

[GoldenRivet]

i needed that :rotfl2:


lol i wasnt going to point it out

[AVGWarhawk]

Things may have changed, I know in the 70's, during long camping trips we often all used the same public showers. I recall once after a long dirty hike, we all used the open showers outside. It may be leaders don't shower with the scouts today. Still, you see a lot of nakedness, etc.

Again, for me it's more about sexual tension and risk regarding children with adults. As I said, you don't see male coaches in the girls locker room because they would be aroused by the girls nakedness. I don't see how a gay male scout leader could ignore seeing numerous naked male teens. We are aroused by what we're attracted to. It doesn't make the person bad, just not the right situation for adults and children to be in.

If we're honest, if a open gay scout leader came to pick up your 15 year old son to take out into the woods for a 7 day trip, thoughts of concern would cross your mind. This isn't band camp, etc....


I was in the scouts in the 70's. It may just be the camps we attended that had separate showers. Or, boys being boys, did not shower because we did not have to!

And yes, thoughts would cross my mind if a openly gay scout leader was wandering off into the woods with my kid. Even my kid might have reservations about it. Then again, teenagers today seem to be more accepting of the gay and lesbian community. I have two teenage girls. They do not really frown on it at all. More so accept and live with it.

[soopaman2]

Wait wording is off here a bit.It sort reads as if your wife was the creepy short haired lesbian gym teacher.:up:

Anyway I think it is good that all female gym teachers are short haired lesbians it gives the young lesbian girls a role model. :03:

My vocabulary is good, but how I convey my ideas is flawed, I love this site because my ideas are judged and debated and not my grammer and spelling. Cuz I not be so smart!:D

I was in the scouts in the 70's. It may just be the camps we attended that had separate showers. Or, boys being boys, did not shower because we did not have to!

And yes, thoughts would cross my mind if a openly gay scout leader was wandering off into the woods with my kid. Even my kid might have reservations about it. Then again, teenagers today seem to be more accepting of the gay and lesbian community. I have two teenage girls. They do not really frown on it at all. More so accept and live with it.

What is your fear?

Why has homosexual become synonymous with Pedophile?

Dude, that is intolerant as hell. (imho)

Allahu Akbar. That fag should be shunned. Because he likes Penises in his mouth *lol* giggle sound*

[Armistead]

I was in the scouts in the 70's. It may just be the camps we attended that had separate showers. Or, boys being boys, did not shower because we did not have to!

And yes, thoughts would cross my mind if a openly gay scout leader was wandering off into the woods with my kid. Even my kid might have reservations about it. Then again, teenagers today seem to be more accepting of the gay and lesbian community. I have two teenage girls. They do not really frown on it at all. More so accept and live with it.

Well, we both know we wouldn't send our daughters out camping with a male leader......because of sexual issues and risk. It's a tough issue, having the same body parts, but same sex attraction.

Again, I have no problems with gays, but I do take issue that would cause sexual tension between children and adults.

[Tchocky]

Would those concerned be happy with a female scout leader in charge of male scouts?

(hypothetical mixed-gender scouting association)

[AVGWarhawk]

What is your fear?

Why has homosexual become synonymous with Pedophile?

Dude, that is intolerant as hell. (imho)



I did not ask for your opinion. When I want it I'll give it to you.

Pedophile has noting to do with it. Two different things.

You can dispense with homophobic crap as well. My nephew is only gay. I enjoy holidays with him. He helped me move. My kids play board games with him. I support everything he does.

[Armistead]

Would those concerned be happy with a female scout leader in charge of male scouts?

(hypothetical mixed-gender scouting association)

No, same issue. Don't get me wrong, we had scout leaders and scout mothers, but the scout mothers never came around in our tents, showers, etc.

If we're gonna have gay scout male leaders, then they should follow the same protocol as a scout mother. However, they play seperate rolls. The issue is simply sexual tension shouldn't be a part of this activity, because scouts often have to expose their sexuality.

To me this is obvious, I wouldn't let my daughter travel, camp or sleep with a male leader because of sexual tension, nor would I let my son do the same with a gay male or s8 female. Scouts should be as sexually neutral as possible.

[soopaman2]

I did not ask for your opinion. When I want it I'll give it to you.

Pedophile has noting to do with it. Two different things.

You can dispense with homophobic crap as well. My nephew is only gay. I enjoy holidays with him. He helped me move. My kids play board games with him. I support everything he does.

LOL you are angry!

What is your fear of your child going off with a homosexual scoutmaster, what is your fear?

Is it your bigotry? Pedophilia has nothing to do with it, then what is it, what is your fear, what is your phobia, your homophobia?


You assumed the "faggot" would do something to your kid, then claimed it had nothing to do with pedophelia, what is your fear?

Answer please,


Homophobia= fear of homosexuals.
Or religion,.
Or is it hate?

either way it is intolerance

Kudos for your nephew.

Edit: before you answer this post I want one stat that says Gays want to screw kids. Or are any different than heteros, outside of who they like to kiss.

[Armistead]

LOL you are angry!

What is your fear of your child going of fwith a homosexual scoutmaster, what is your fear?

Is it your bogotry? Pedophilia has nothing to do with it, then what is it, what is your fear, what is your phobia, your homophobia,


You assumed the "faggot" would do somethimg to your kid, then claimed it had nothing to do with pedophelia, what is your fear?

Answer please,



Homophobia= fear of homosexuals.

Or is it hate?

The issue is normal sexual tension, not pedophilia. If you had a 14 year old daughter, would you let her shower, sleep and go out into the woods with a 21 year old male scout leader? Let's agree both keep their thoughts to themselves and behave, the fact is it's sexual tension not needed for children that age in that atmospehere. It would be the same for a young s8 male scout and adult male gay leader, the sexual tension would be there. The only way to handle it is with lots of rules, which would ruin the intent of scouting.

[Takeda Shingen]

LOL you are angry!

What is your fear of your child going off with a homosexual scoutmaster, what is your fear?

Is it your bigotry? Pedophilia has nothing to do with it, then what is it, what is your fear, what is your phobia, your homophobia?


You assumed the "faggot" would do something to your kid, then claimed it had nothing to do with pedophelia, what is your fear?

Answer please,


Homophobia= fear of homosexuals.
Or religion,.
Or is it hate?

either way it is intolerance

Kudos for your nephew.

Edit: before you answer this post I want one stat that says Gays want to screw kids. Or are any different than heteros, outside of who they like to kiss.

It is patently obvious that his concern was of the inherent sexual interjection in scouting. Prior to this, sex was not something officially stated in scouting. While I disagree with AVG's assertion, I do not see him as a discriminatory individual. Jumping up and down while hysterically yelling "homophobe" will not render him so.

[August]

Would those concerned be happy with a female scout leader in charge of male scouts?

(hypothetical mixed-gender scouting association)

You mean like a Den Mother? I had one of those but that was well before puberty so it's not the same thing.

The reason we separate genders post puberty is because of sexuality pure and simple. If you put large numbers of people in that position there will always be problems of that nature.

They are basically creating the same situation by allowing open homosexuality. There will be problems and in the case of the Boy Scouts I fear it may be fatal to the organization. We'll see.

[AVGWarhawk]

LOL you are angry!

What is your fear of your child going off with a homosexual scoutmaster, what is your fear?

Is it your bigotry? Pedophilia has nothing to do with it, then what is it, what is your fear, what is your phobia, your homophobia?


You assumed the "faggot" would do something to your kid, then claimed it had nothing to do with pedophelia, what is your fear?

Answer please,


Homophobia= fear of homosexuals.
Or religion,.
Or is it hate?

either way it is intolerance

Kudos for your nephew.

Edit: before you answer this post I want one stat that says Gays want to screw kids. Or are any different than heteros, outside of who they like to kiss.

What part of gay male and pedophile are two different things as I stated in my last post did you not grasp? Is it always about sex? Do you mean to tell me, out side of sexual contact, that a young mind can be influenced by another in just about anything? In short, I check out everyone my children come in contact with. I don't care if it is the Pope. Tunnel vision is a bad thing. You seem to have it with gay males, children and sex. Parents get concerned and have reservations with sending their kids off without making contact with the adult that will be looking after them. My nephew is an adult. As stated, they play board games together. Attend movies. I host cook outs where is significant other attends. What part of homophobia did you want to discuss?

As far as tolerance you seem to have problems with inner city ghettos. What is the fear? The actual city or the people that inhabit the place? For someone who promotes tolerance must certainly tolerate everything else in life correct?

Hug Christie for me. :03:

[AVGWarhawk]

You mean like a Den Mother? I had one of those but that was well before puberty so it's not the same thing.

The reason we separate genders post puberty is because of sexuality pure and simple. If you put large numbers of people in that position there will always be problems of that nature.

They are basically creating the same situation by allowing open homosexuality. There will be problems and in the case of the Boy Scouts I fear it may be fatal to the organization. We'll see.

My mom was a den mother. That was cub scouts.

[AVGWarhawk]

It is patently obvious that his concern was of the inherent sexual interjection in scouting. Prior to this, sex was not something officially stated in scouting. While I disagree with AVG's assertion, I do not see him as a discriminatory individual. Jumping up and down while hysterically yelling "homophobe" will not render him so.

Not necessarily true Tak. Soopa interjected the sexual connotations. As a parent, I check out all adults that will be looking after my kids. I meet their teachers and school administration. I meet their friends before going to the movies or mall. My concern is influences introduced by adults and peers. It is not always a sexual nature. Soopa made that suggestion. My nephew is openly gay and an adopted Korean as well. My kids see have had family gatherings with him and his significant other. There is not influence there but we were questioned. As a parent we provided answers. It is not unusual to see two female HS students holding hands and open about their relationship. Kids today are more accepting of it. I have to be more accepting of it if I want to have a relationship with my nephew. And I do. He is a great kid who has grown into a find young man that teach 6th grade math. Homophobe I'm not. Agreeing with the lifestyle I do not see eye to eye. Then again, quite a few heterosexual lifestyles I don't see eye to eye on either.

I don't discriminate. I hate everyone equally! :up:

[Takeda Shingen]

Not necessarily true Tak. Soopa interjected the sexual connotations. As a parent, I check out all adults that will be looking after my kids. I meet their teachers and school administration. I meet their friends before going to the movies or mall. My concern is influences introduced by adults and peers. It is not always a sexual nature. Soopa made that suggestion. My nephew is openly gay and an adopted Korean as well. My kids see have had family gatherings with him and his significant other. There is not influence there but we were questioned. As a parent we provided answers. It is not unusual to see two female HS students holding hands and open about their relationship. Kids today are more accepting of it. I have to be more accepting of it if I want to have a relationship with my nephew. And I do. He is a great kid who has grown into a find young man that teach 6th grade math. Homophobe I'm not. Agreeing with the lifestyle I do not see eye to eye. Then again, quite a few heterosexual lifestyles I don't see eye to eye on either.

I don't discriminate. I hate everyone equally! :up:

My apologies for interjecting then.

[AVGWarhawk]

My apologies for interjecting then.

Please interject. I was not clear when I said I would be concerned if my kid was wandering off in the woods with a openly gay scout master. My concerns is in the scout master being responsible. Responsible in watching my children. Not providing mixed messages. Everyone provides mixed messages from one to to another.

[garren]

But there's a division of sexes for a reason, or so I thought. Most people are straight and don't want to feel uncomfortable knowing that their private parts might be getting looked at by the opposite sex. Now straight boys have to feel uncomfortable being around other boys who might be eyeing their private parts when they shower or go to the restroom. That's not really fair to straight boys is it? Not like they are allowed to go into the female restroom and make them feel uncomfortable.

So, I feel like if we are moving to an "anything goes" type of society then I think it's time we get rid of his and her bathrooms altogether and just have integrated bathrooms and integrated showering as well. This whole "us and them" isn't promoting equality anyways. Just making one group feel superior to another. If we can tell straight boys to "get over it" when it comes to their concerns for personal comfort then we should be telling females the same thing when it comes to their concerns about males seeing them naked as well.

It's 2013 (does that even matter? I hear this so often as being an excuse for change.) and I can't believe they can integrate women into combat roles and onboard submarines at the snap of a finger but men and women can't share a common restroom in 2013 while gays can with straight people. What's the concern? Get over it already people. Lose your morality cause nobody believes in God anymore or the bible cause Barack Obama is our new messiah and we all must worship him and all the "progress" he's bringing! Before long we will be just like all the other 3rd world countries and that's great because America needs to share the power with the rest of the world cause we're all equals and nobody's country should hold power over another and we should all be free to walk around this world naked and have sex with anybody we want in public places and with non-humans as well and with trees and rocks and insects.

And while we're at it I think we should be accepting of men marrying more than one wife and women marrying more than one husband and all sorts of other formerly "deviant" acts. It's obvious nobody cares about the bible anymore or what it says. Anything and everything should go from this point forward. Don't hold back. Be as perverted as you wish to be cause government run public schools have taught us that evolution is what is real and that there is no God and that the bible is just a fiction book.

Want to marry your dog or have sex with it - go for it and get a tax break for it too. Nobody should be able to ever tell you no or that you're disgusting again. Everybody's a winner in a progressive liberal world. There are no losers. That's oppression and offensive to YOUR personal views and way of life. Want to marry your daughter and breed with her? Go for it. Break her in and make a real woman out of her. Want to breastfeed your 17 year old son and show him how to pleasure a woman with his mouth? You're such a good mom! That's how you raise a real man who will treat women reaaaallllllyyyy good!

For real, I honestly don't care anymore. I don't recognize America anymore or where it's heading. Progression you say? Progression to where? Hell? Sure seems like it. So if that's where we're heading then might as well go all out! I'm not knocking what anyone does anymore. I've gotten to the place where I'm even accepting of murderers and rapists as well. Why not? Who am I to judge them or knock their way of life? Whatever floats your boat - go for it. Hell, why does anyone even allow anyone to govern over them at all? You don't want a God to govern over you but you don't mind allowing other men and women telling you what to do or how to live your life? That's strange. Are you a free man or woman or a sheep that needs to be herded and controlled and told what to do? Who is anyone to tell you how to live your life if they are less than a God? Just another a-hole with an opinion of how you should be living your life. Why have government at all? Why not support a society without government so people can be truly free and go hog wild any way they wish? Why just stop with homosexuality people - we can do so much more to show how truly disgusting we can be!

[AVGWarhawk]

But there's a division of sexes for a reason, or so I thought. Most people are straight and don't want to feel uncomfortable knowing that their private parts might be getting looked at by the opposite sex. Now straight boys have to feel uncomfortable being around other boys who might be eyeing their private parts when they shower or go to the restroom. That's not really fair to straight boys is it? Not like they are allowed to go into the female restroom and make them feel uncomfortable.

I'm uncomfortable with anyone, other than my wife, looking at my privates. I was more so when I was a kid. Hell, I suffer from bashful bladder. I'm not sure if what you stated really qualifies as a reason.

So, I feel like if we are moving to an "anything goes" type of society then I think it's time we get rid of his and her bathrooms altogether and just have integrated bathrooms and integrated showering as well. This whole "us and them" isn't promoting equality anyways. Just making one group feel superior to another. If we can tell straight boys to "get over it" when it comes to their concerns for personal comfort then we should be telling females the same thing when it comes to their concerns about males seeing them naked as well.

There should be gay bathroom facilities then?

It's 2013 (does that even matter? I hear this so often as being an excuse for change.) and I can't believe they can integrate women into combat roles and onboard submarines at the snap of a finger but men and women can't share a common restroom in 2013 while gays can with straight people. What's the concern? Get over it already people. Lose your morality cause nobody believes in God anymore or the bible cause Barack Obama is our new messiah and we all must worship him and all the "progress" he's bringing! Before long we will be just like all the other 3rd world countries and that's great because America needs to share the power with the rest of the world cause we're all equals and nobody's country should hold power over another and we should all be free to walk around this world naked and have sex with anybody we want in public places and with non-humans as well and with trees and rocks and insects.

And while we're at it I think we should be accepting of men marrying more than one wife and women marrying more than one husband and all sorts of other formerly "deviant" acts. It's obvious nobody cares about the bible anymore or what it says. Anything and everything should go from this point forward. Don't hold back. Be as perverted as you wish to be cause government run public schools have taught us that evolution is what is real and that there is no God and that the bible is just a fiction book.

Want to marry your dog or have sex with it - go for it and get a tax break for it too. Nobody should be able to ever tell you no or that you're disgusting again. Everybody's a winner in a progressive liberal world. There are no losers. That's oppression and offensive to YOUR personal views and way of life. Want to marry your daughter and breed with her? Go for it. Break her in and make a real woman out of her. Want to breastfeed your 17 year old son and show him how to pleasure a woman with his mouth? You're such a good mom! That's how you raise a real man!

For real, I honestly don't care anymore. I don't recognize America anymore or where it's heading. Progression you say? Progression to where? Hell? Sure seems like it. So if that's where we're heading then might as well go all out! I'm not knocking what anyone does anymore. I've gotten to the place where I'm even accepting of murderers and rapists as well. Why not? Who am I to judge them or knock their way of life? Whatever floats your boat - go for it. Hell, why does anyone even allow anyone to govern over them at all? You don't want a God to govern over you but you don't mind allowing other men and women telling you what to do or how to live your life? That's strange.

Who is anyone to tell you how to live your life if they are less than a God? Just another a-hole with an opinion of how you should be living your life. Are you a man or a sheep? Why have government at all? Why not support a society without government so people can be truly free and go hog wild any way they wish? Why just stop with homosexuality?


I'm at a loss for words here.

[Tchocky]

Why just stop with homosexuality people - we can do so much more to show how truly disgusting we can be!

I was going to respond to more of what you said but I think quoting this last bit of nasty insult does the job.

[Tribesman]

wow :hmmm:
I am glad you agree Steves comment did not make sense.

Thought this was about the BS? The issue for me is having adults attracted to the same sex being in situations where my childs body would be exposed. We don't put male coaches in the girls high school locker room because of sexual reasons. Sorry, if one is an adult gay male, I don't see how sexual tension wouldn't arise being alone with naked male teens. It's not fair to either party.


.
But this is about gay boy scouts not gay boy scout leaders.
If you want to deal with the ban on gay boy scout leaders you can take the issue of the lesbian who got banned from being a boy scout leader as she was gay.
This issue is about children, not adults in sports, in which I have no problem with the gay issue
So what about kids in sports, should gay kids be banned from team sports?
Hey I asked that already didn't I.


Things may have changed, I know in the 70's, during long camping trips we often all used the same public showers. I recall once after a long dirty hike, we all used the open showers outside. It may be leaders don't shower with the scouts today. Still, you see a lot of nakedness, etc.

Again, for me it's more about sexual tension and risk regarding children with adults. As I said, you don't see male coaches in the girls locker room because they would be aroused by the girls nakedness. I don't see how a gay male scout leader could ignore seeing numerous naked male teens. We are aroused by what we're attracted to. It doesn't make the person bad, just not the right situation for adults and children to be in.

If we're honest, if a open gay scout leader came to pick up your 15 year old son to take out into the woods for a 7 day trip, thoughts of concern would cross your mind. This isn't band camp, etc....
So if it was band camp instead of scout camp you would raise no objections?



Why has homosexual become synonymous with Pedophile?


Good point soopa


Well, we both know we wouldn't send our daughters out camping with a male leader......because of sexual issues and risk. It's a tough issue, having the same body parts, but same sex attraction.

Wouldn't you, are you that afraid of nonces being everywhere?

The issue is simply sexual tension shouldn't be a part of this activity, because scouts often have to expose their sexuality.

.
Someone said earlier that such things never had a place in scouting.

Scouts should be as sexually neutral as possible
So it wouldn't matter if they was homo or hetro would it?

You mean like a Den Mother? I had one of those but that was well before puberty so it's not the same thing.

The reason we separate genders post puberty is because of sexuality pure and simple. If you put large numbers of people in that position there will always be problems of that nature.

So child molesters don't abuse kids before puberty???????
What about if its a woman child molester who abuses little boys, how is your ban on gays going to help there?

They are basically creating the same situation by allowing open homosexuality. There will be problems and in the case of the Boy Scouts I fear it may be fatal to the organization.
Isn't that exactly what they said about the military?

[soopaman2]

AVG, I have a caustic way about me, I mean no harms.

*laughs at Takeda then ignores his constant insults*

Mister AVG, I understand your point, I was only asking what you based your opinions on.

I do not see a threat from gay scoutmasters while you do, simply invoking open debate. Why are gays so creepy to people?

Unlike Takeda, who just openly attacks a post because I wrote it, no matter the context.

[garren]

I was going to respond to more of what you said but I think quoting this last bit of nasty insult does the job.

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm open to all sorts of perversions now. I have to thank the gay community on liberating me from that oppressive morality I once had. You know, without them I'd still be a church going man praying for healing and now I know I've just been wasting my time and oppressing myself. I'm FREE! Free at last. Think I'm going to go dress up in my wife's panties and prance around and have sex with some bullfrogs today cause I'm just soooo freeeee!!!! Yippeeee!!!! Freeeeee!!!

[Tchocky]

I'm not insulting anyone.
Very funny.

I'm open to all sorts of perversions now. I have to thank the gay community on liberating me from that oppressive morality I once had.

Go be unpleasant somewhere else.

[Takeda Shingen]

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm open to all sorts of perversions now. I have to thank the gay community on liberating me from that oppressive morality I once had. You know, without them I'd still be a church going man praying for healing and now I know I've just been wasting my time and oppressing myself. I'm FREE! Free at last. Think I'm going to go dress up in my wife's panties and prance around and have sex with some bullfrogs today cause I'm just soooo freeeee!!!! Yippeeee!!!! Freeeeee!!!

Does that mean that you won't be posting for awhile? Because that would be awesome.

[Tribesman]

I was going to respond to more of what you said but I think quoting this last bit of nasty insult does the job.
Isn't it tempting to take scripture to those sorts of bible basher :rotfl2:

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG, I have a caustic way about me, I mean no harms.

This comes from living in NJ where the caustic crap from NY washes up on your shores. Like those plastic nasty beach whistles they are fondly called.



Mister AVG, I understand your point, I was only asking what you based your opinions on.

My opinions are based on my experiences as a parent of teenagers. My nephew who is openly gay. My experiences in the scouts. 48 years of being on this mud ball called Earth.

I do not see a threat from gay scoutmasters while you do,

Only in the respect of sending mixed messages. Not sexual. You interjected that notion. Pedophiles are a whole other thread.

Unlike Takeda, who just openly attacks a post because I wrote it, no matter the context.

Completely unfounded.

[garren]

Pedophiles are A-OK with me.

In fact, this girl told me after a night of kinky hardcore sex with her that I was a pervert. I told her that was a mighty big word for a 9 year old woman. :har:


You know you lol'd. Don't be a hater.

[Takeda Shingen]

So I take it that you aren't going out to the bullfrogs? Color me disappointed. :cry:

[Tribesman]

Has Ted Haggard joined Subsim?

[soopaman2]

The perversions word kinda gave away your bias Mr. Garren.

Not a bad thing mind you, first amendment and all.

It just sounded bad, unless you intended it as so?
I dunno, I do not know you as well as others.

I defend the gays, and I am not even gay.

I got a pair of lesbians for my next door neighbor, and they are clean, mow their lawn, great conversation on any issue, unlike the Puerto Ricans that lived there 3 years ago...

30 people in a house, loud music all day and night, Heck my cat eats at thier house, and thier dog eats at mine.

So why does guys who like penis bother you so much, insecurity?

You want a stiff rod yourself, and cannot admit it?

[garren]

Color me disappointed. :cry:

Did you just call me the "N-word"?

[AVGWarhawk]

Lighten up Garren. It's the weekend.

[garren]

The perversions word kinda gave away your bias Mr. Garren.

Not a bad thing mind you, first amendment and all.

It just sounded bad, unless you intended it as so?
I dunno, I do not know you as well as others.

I defend the gays, and I am not even gay.

I got a pair of lesbians for my next door neighbor, and they are clean, mow their lawn, great conversation on any issue, unlike the Puerto Ricans that lived there 3 years ago...

30 people in a house, loud music all day and night, Heck my cat eats at thier house, and thier dog eats at mine.

So why does guys who like penis bother you so much, insecurity?

You want a stiff rod yourself, and cannot admit it?


I'm not knocking anything. I'm just going to go all out now. Because if gays can have special rights for their sexual preferences than so should everyone else who might not have a sexual preference that is deemed kosher.

[Takeda Shingen]

I'm not knocking anything. I'm just going to go all out now. Because if gays can have special rights for their sexual preferences than so should everyone else who might not have a sexual preference that is deemed kosher.

Right, because equal rights are somehow special rights. Kind of like letting women and minorities vote, right?

[garren]

Right, because equal rights are somehow special rights. Kind of like letting women and minorities vote, right?


I thought gay men were men and gay women were women and that men and women already had equal rights? So gay rights is a special rights system based on a person's sexual interests is it not?

Btw - Never really been too sure how women were ever a minority? They outnumber men in numbers and control who gets elected in politics as we saw with Obama's second appointment being mostly female votes that gave him a 2nd term. If women don't want men in politics they can easily run a woman and put her in office with sheer numbers alone. Giving women minority protections is sort of like giving them their cake and eat it too. it's pandering and part of the problem with the whole system.

[Dowly]

I'm starting to like this thread.

Please, carry on.

[Takeda Shingen]

I thought gay men were men and gay women were women and that men and women already had equal rights? So gay rights is a special rights system based on a person's sexual interests is it not?

Giving them the same rights that a heterosexual couple enjoy is not a special right. Separate but equal is not equal.

[Tchocky]

I thought gay men were men and gay women were women and that men and women already had equal rights? So gay rights is a special rights system based on a person's sexual interests is it not?

Are you taking the piss?

Because otherwise I'll have to recalibrate.

[AVGWarhawk]

I thought gay men were men and gay women were women and that men and women already had equal rights? So gay rights is a special rights system based on a person's sexual interests is it not?

Call it rights for every individual. Take the word gay out of it. Right of marriage, etc. Right of the marriage tax penalty. :haha:

[soopaman2]

I'm not knocking anything. I'm just going to go all out now. Because if gays can have special rights for their sexual preferences than so should everyone else who might not have a sexual preference that is deemed kosher.


Thing is ...first sorry for the last line of my post, it was mean, and you were so nice and ignored it, I really am a piece of crap at times.


Gays do not have special rights, you know what happens with insurance companies when a gay lover tries to claim monies?

How about the social scorn?

You can be disgusted by the lifestyle, that is fine, I cannot judge you on that, but to minimize them as human beings is what disgusts me.

Makes us no different from the Nazis, busting up stores whos owners names ended in Stein, or berg.

[AVGWarhawk]

Makes us no different from the Nazis, busting up stores whos owners names ended in Stein, or berg.

Nazis were not fond of gays or the mentally challenged for that matter.

[garren]

Giving them the same rights that a heterosexual couple enjoy is not a special right. Separate but equal is not equal.

But at least a heterosexual couple is a diverse couple comprised of both a man and a woman. A gay couple isn't celebrating diversity at all and doesn't go towards promoting positive relations between males and females nor does it produce living offspring. Suppose every kid grows up to be gay one day. How is that good for humanity? They are different (and I don't mean that to be mean towards them but to be honest). Should we allow straight men to participate in the Miss America Beauty pageant? What about showing the Duke's of Hazard on the BET channel? Sometimes lines are drawn in the sand for a reason. Not to be offensive but to keep humanity going. Suppose if all women who have abortion rights decide to abort all their children from now on. That's the end of humanity. Why give women that sort of power? Would men really just sit back and let women end the world? Think the government would come in and take women's right to abort away if that became the norm?

[Tchocky]

A gay couple isn't celebrating diversity at all and doesn't go towards promoting positive relations between males and females nor does it produce living offspring. Gay couples do have kids, via surrogacy or adoption.

Suppose every kid grows up to be gay one day. How is that good for humanity? Suppose coffee machines gain sentience and enslave mankind? How is that good for humanity?

Suppose the Moon isn't really there?

Just posing a few similarly absurd hypotheticals.

EDIT - I see you've added some more stupid questions regarding worldwide abortion and the END OF HUMANITY. Same goes for those.

They are different (and I don't mean that to be mean towards them but to be honest). Should we allow straight men to participate in the Miss America Beauty pageant? What about showing the Duke's of Hazard on the BET channel?You see these issues as being on the same level as equal rights for homosexuals.

That tells me an awful lot.

[AVGWarhawk]

But at least a heterosexual couple is a diverse couple comprised of both a man and a woman. A gay couple isn't celebrating diversity at all and doesn't go towards promoting positive relations between males and females nor does it produce living offspring. Suppose every kid grows up to be gay one day. How is that good for humanity? They are different (and I don't mean that to be mean towards them but to be honest). Should we allow straight men to participate in the Miss America Beauty pageant? What about showing the Duke's of Hazard on the BET channel?

In the name of diversity there should not be homosexual. Interesting. Everyone becoming gay? Highly unlikely. I would like to participate in the Ms. American Contest. Dukes of Hazard is not what folks that watch BET want to watch. Simple business decision.

[August]

I'm uncomfortable with anyone, other than my wife, looking at my privates.

This is one of the ideas behind segregating sexes. The concept that nobody need feel bashful (or at least feel less so) around people who don't have a reason to look. I don't see why this concept remains valid for gender but not sexuality when they are basically the same in their effect upon the group.

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

[frau kaleun]

But at least a heterosexual couple is a diverse couple comprised of both a man and a woman. A gay couple isn't celebrating diversity

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

at all and doesn't go towards promoting positive relations between males and females

From what I can tell, neither do a lot of straight marriages. :haha:

nor does it produce living offspring.

Neither do straight couples who are unable to conceive or carry a child to term successfully or who simply decide not to reproduce. How long should we let them stay together before we invalidate their union? Just asking.

Suppose every kid grows up to be gay one day.

Then the future will be FAB-ulous, dahling! :O:

[garren]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.



From what I can tell, neither do a lot of straight marriages. :haha:



Neither do straight couples who are unable to conceive or carry a child to term successfully or who simply decide not to reproduce. How long should we let them stay together before we invalidate their union? Just asking.



Then the future will be FAB-ulous, dahling! :O:


I'm just not for changing history or tradition at all. Straight couples marrying does not harm gay couples. Why can't they just create their own religion and their own form of marriage separate from heterosexual marriages and Christian religion? Why intrude on our way of life and our traditions and make a mockery of them? The future doesn't look too fabulous to me when a divide in the sexes to the place that men and women no longer want to be involved with one another. Seems like hell to me.

[AVGWarhawk]

This is one of the ideas behind segregating sexes. The concept that nobody need feel bashful (or at least feel less so) around people who don't have a reason to look. I don't see why this concept remains valid for gender but not sexuality when they are basically the same in their effect upon the group.

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

August, they are not initiating a, "Let's Learn Gay" merit badge.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm just not for changing history or tradition at all. Straight couples marrying does not harm gay couples. Why can't they just create their own religion and their own form of marriage separate from heterosexual marriages and Christian religion? Why intrude on our way of life and our traditions and make a mockery of them? The future doesn't look too fabulous to me when a divide in the sexes to the place that men and women no longer want to be involved with one another. Seems like hell to me.

You do not have to attend their church. Their wedding. Their cookout. You do not have to invite them over. In doing so no one is intruding on anyone. Fences make great neighbors.

[Tchocky]

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.
That's a fair point but do you think the discriminatory and exclusionary step of refusing access to all gay people goes too far?

Also, how does allowing gay people in suddenly make it all about sex?

Surely it's as focused on sex as the old rulebook was, ie rules about what orientations were and were not allowed. There's your first level of complexity right there.

Also as far as changing social group dynamics, can it not be said that doing so in this case allows it to reflect more accurately the society we live in?

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere. Agreed entirely. It's not like lifting the ban on gay people will add the word "homosexual" to that list. Also I think it would serve to underline the "friendly, courteous, kind & reverent" part of the list :)

It's not as if gay people who want to be scout leaders are interested in anything other than what you mentioned. Blocking them out gives the idea that gay people can't be trusted not to make everything about sex.

EDIT - I see AVG made the same point but better, while I was typing

[frau kaleun]

I'm just not for changing history or tradition at all. Straight couples marrying does not harm gay couples. Why can't they just create their own religion and their own form of marriage separate from heterosexual marriages and Christian religion? Why intrude on our way of life and our traditions and make a mockery of them? The future doesn't look too fabulous to me when a divide in the sexes to the place that men and women no longer want to be involved with one another. Seems like hell to me.

I'm sorry, but it's already too late for you. The truth is that just reading this thread has made you gay. That's how it works, you know? It's like cooties only with sexual orientation. In a few days you'll start feeling the urge to buy new window treatments and download a Barbra Streisand album.

[garren]

Dukes of Hazard is not what folks that watch BET want to watch. Simple business decision.


With a taint of racism included in that business decision. Just read an article today on yahoo in which Samsung made some commercial that depicted men as lazy inferior beings who sit on the couch and do nothing. This woman plugs some sort of electronic device into his back and he's suddenly cleaning the house, feeding the baby, washing the floors, while she sits and does nothing. So men complain and say it's sexist. And some female reporter for yahoo claims that women can not be sexist towards men and only men can be sexist towards women and blacks can't be racist towards whites and only whites can be racist towards blacks. So what is a white Christian conservative heterosexual male supposed to do but think the whole bloody world is anti-him? How is current discrimination against this person OK? because his ancestors were discriminated against other groups so it makes it OK to discriminate against him today? We're not creating equality in this society. We're just flipping the script and turning the tables around on people and that's just going to lead to cyclical effect of never ending discrimination.

[Nippelspanner]

But a ban on openly gay adult scout leaders will remain in place.

Uhm... why? Can anyone explain, please?

[garren]

I'm sorry, but it's already too late for you. The truth is that just reading this thread has made you gay. That's how it works, you know? It's like cooties only with sexual orientation. In a few days you'll start feeling the urge to buy new window treatments and download a Barbra Streisand album.

Which brings up a good point - Why do gay men routinely act feminized? Doesn't make any sense. If you don't like women then why would you mimic their feminized mannerisms and act like a girl? Why would another gay man find that attractive and not a masculine tough guy? Why not just be with a feminized woman? Same thing with lesbians... Why do so many of them want a masculine version of a woman if men isn't what they're interested in. Just seems so "fake" to me. Is "fake" the right word? I don't know?

[Tchocky]

And why do they have parades?!?!

You don't see any STRAIGHT PRIDE parades, answer me that.

[Nippelspanner]

But at least a heterosexual couple is a diverse couple comprised of both a man and a woman. A gay couple isn't celebrating diversity at all and doesn't go towards promoting positive relations between males and females nor does it produce living offspring. Suppose every kid grows up to be gay one day. How is that good for humanity? They are different (and I don't mean that to be mean towards them but to be honest). Should we allow straight men to participate in the Miss America Beauty pageant? What about showing the Duke's of Hazard on the BET channel? Sometimes lines are drawn in the sand for a reason. Not to be offensive but to keep humanity going. Suppose if all women who have abortion rights decide to abort all their children from now on. That's the end of humanity. Why give women that sort of power? Would men really just sit back and let women end the world? Think the government would come in and take women's right to abort away if that became the norm?

Not sure if trolling or just s... mh.. I'm on Subsim... so: "silly"...

[garren]

And why do they have parades?!?!

You don't see any STRAIGHT PRIDE parades, answer me that.

Because that would be discrimination towards gays I'm sure. We're no longer a country that runs on majority rules anymore. Now it's apparent that minority rules run the country. Nobody wants to be on top anymore because the real power is being on the bottom, being a victim, and getting governmental support to bolster your cause.

[Tchocky]

Ha ha. Oh dear.

[AVGWarhawk]

With a taint of racism included in that business decision. Just read an article today on yahoo in which Samsung made some commercial that depicted men as lazy inferior beings who sit on the couch and do nothing. This woman plugs some sort of electronic device into his back and he's suddenly cleaning the house, feeding the baby, washing the floors, while she sits and does nothing. So men complain and say it's sexist. And some female reporter for yahoo claims that women can not be sexist towards men and only men can be sexist towards women and blacks can't be racist towards whites and only whites can be racist towards blacks. So what is a white Christian conservative heterosexual male supposed to do but think the whole bloody world is anti-him? How is current discrimination against this person OK? because his ancestors were discriminated against other groups so it makes it OK to discriminate against him today? We're not creating equality in this society. We're just flipping the script and turning the tables around on people and that's just going to lead to cyclical effect of never ending discrimination.

I do not want watch Boyz N the Hood. The don't show it on TNT. I guess broadcasters base what they program on being racial? They target specific groups of people. Business decision. As far as the white male being lazy, etc and someone being offended by it all I can offer is political correctness has gotten completely out of hand. Personally, I'm offended at others getting offended at the drop of a hat.

[August]

August, they are not initiating a, "Let's Learn Gay" merit badge.

They might as well be. Like I said it's adding a whole new and complex aspect to Scouting that didn't exist beforehand. It's going to have a greater impact than a lot of people think.

[AVGWarhawk]

Ha ha. Oh dear.

:haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

Which brings up a good point - Why do gay men routinely act feminized? Doesn't make any sense. If you don't like women then why would you mimic their feminized mannerisms and act like a girl? Why would another gay man find that attractive and not a masculine tough guy? Why not just be with a feminized woman? Same thing with lesbians... Why do so many of them want a masculine version of a woman if men isn't what they're interested in. Just seems so "fake" to me. Is "fake" the right word? I don't know?

I know and have known quite a few gays and lesbians. None that I recall being very feminine for the males or manly for the women. I do recall all as productive members of society and good people.

This is something that either disgusts or fascinates you. Either way, you are spending to much time on it certainly.

[garren]

Not sure if trolling or just s... mh.. I'm on Subsim... so: "silly"...

Why does everyone assume that the person with the unpopular opinion in any particular forum is trolling? Because from this end of the ship it sure feels like I'm being trolled just the same. Perhaps a moderator should come and split the ship in half with a torpedo and end this forum if we can't agree to disagree without the finger pointing and accusations of trolling.

[Tchocky]

They might as well be. Like I said it's adding a whole new and complex aspect to Scouting that didn't exist beforehand. How is it different than explicitly excluding homosexuals? The aspect is already there, and the spin on it is that it's wrong unhealthy and unwanted.

It's going to have a greater impact than a lot of people think.
Maybe so.

[garren]

They might as well be. Like I said it's adding a whole new and complex aspect to Scouting that didn't exist beforehand. It's going to have a greater impact than a lot of people think.


I think it's going to be the end of the boy scouts honestly. I already know of 5 churches in my area that are withdrawing support to the boy scouts already since yesterday. And since the boy scouts receive 70% or more of their funding from churches and religious donations I'm thinking it will be the end of the boy scouts altogether. Probably what the gay community was hoping for anyways. If they can't participate they want to destroy what other have so everyone's miserable. I'm sure they will adopt to wearing short skirts and show up at your door selling cookies and if that doesn't work Obama will bail them out and use federal tax money to keep the gay scouts up and running.

[Platapus]

. Not sure I would want a male sexually attracted to males partaking of such with my teen son.

You are assuming that gays are attracted to every single male they see.

[Tchocky]

I think it's going to be the end of the boy scouts honestly. I already know of 5 churches in my area that are withdrawing support to the boy scouts already since yesterday. And since the boy scouts receive 70% or more of their funding from churches and religious donations I'm thinking it will be the end of the boy scouts altogether. Probably what the gay community was hoping for anyways. If they can't participate they want to destroy what other have so everyone's miserable. I'm sure they will adopt to wearing short skirts and show up at your door selling cookies and if that doesn't work Obama will bail them out and use federal tax money to keep the gay scouts up and running.

Did you hear that Obamacare has a tax credit for sexual reassignment surgery?

[Red October1984]

I'm sorry, but it's already too late for you. The truth is that just reading this thread has made you gay. That's how it works, you know? It's like cooties only with sexual orientation. In a few days you'll start feeling the urge to buy new window treatments and download a Barbra Streisand album.

Going to a bar and requesting some Madonna music.... :rotfl2: What's the bar's name? THE EMPTY CLOSET!

There is this show called Trailer Park Boys in Canada about guys who get out of jail and document their lives to show others what not to do. In one episode they decide to open a bar and they tell the village idiots to go pass out flyers in different bars in town. Well, on opening night... "Everybody is requesting Madonna and teen pop stuff...." and they go ask the idiots where they passed out the flyers and they passed them out at "this new bar called The Empty Closet" :rotfl2: It was funny.

And why do they have parades?!?!

You don't see any STRAIGHT PRIDE parades, answer me that.

Yeah! Yeah! What about White History month?!

Why does everyone assume that the person with the unpopular opinion in any particular forum is trolling? Because from this end of the ship it sure feels like I'm being trolled just the same. Perhaps a moderator should come and split the ship in half with a torpedo and end this forum if we can't agree to disagree without the finger pointing and accusations of trolling.

This thread is doing nothing but making me laugh. What started out being a serious discussion about a current event has turned into senseless bashing and humor.

:dead: Disaster...

[garren]

You are assuming that gays are attracted to every single male they see.


No more than people feeling uncomfortable with males teaching in daycares or sitting next to strange men on airplanes or boys showering with girls in gym class. Not every male is attracted to every female just the same but society has chosen to "protect" the comforts of those who are uncomfortable for a reason. But now society seems to be forcing gays on straight males and mixing them in an environment that makes straight males uncomfortable while gay boys get the privilege of looking at tons of male butt every day - much of it they may very well be attracted to. And if a straight male feel violated and beats the tar out of a gay male then I'm sure the straight male will get hit up with "hate crime" charges. It's totally unfair.

[August]

That's a fair point but do you think the discriminatory and exclusionary step of refusing access to all gay people goes too far?

No further than the discriminatory and exclusionary step of refusing access to all women to the Boy Scouts goes too far. The BSA is not a co-ed organization. The reason that the co-ed division exists is because of sexuality. Homosexuality is sexuality. What's the difference?

Also, how does allowing gay people in suddenly make it all about sex?

The same way it would if we made the Boy Scouts co-ed. You have brought sexual tension into a situation that did not openly contain it beforehand. You cannot deny it wouldn't have a major impact.

Surely it's as focused on sex as the old rulebook was, ie rules about what orientations were and were not allowed. There's your first level of complexity right there.

Putting on our pants in the morning was the true first level of complexity we face. There have been a lot of layers of complexity since. I never claimed sexual segregation makes the Boy Scouts complexity free just less so.

Also as far as changing social group dynamics, can it not be said that doing so in this case allows it to reflect more accurately the society we live in?

Whether that is a good thing or not depends I think upon the group. Do you think human sexual habits are something the Boy Scouts should be concerning itself with?

Agreed entirely. It's not like lifting the ban on gay people will add the word "homosexual" to that list. Also I think it would serve to underline the "friendly, courteous, kind & reverent" part of the list :)

It's not as if gay people who want to be scout leaders are interested in anything other than what you mentioned. Blocking them out gives the idea that gay people can't be trusted not to make everything about sex.

So you really think it won't be that big of a deal? Well good luck getting the churches to agree with you and they are the ones who keep Scouting going. If this causes the BSA to fragment and die will this exercise in social engineering have been worth it? I find that difficult to accept.

[garren]

Did you hear that Obamacare has a tax credit for sexual reassignment surgery?

I'm sure he does. Seems like the man-hating feminist movement wants to turn males into a bunch of eunuchs and women and Obama seems ready to hand over his nuts to them on a silver platter and expects all men to follow his emasculating lead. Sad.

Here's a woman advocating for 4th wave feminists to find ways to get men pregnant... (wouldn't be men anymore if we gave birth so I assume she wants to live in a world without men. Standard male bashing feminist drivel)

"I have been forced to revise my earlier thesis. There will be no true equality until men can give birth. Fourth-wave feminists need to get in the labs and start experimenting. " - Lucy Mangan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10030351/Feminist-education-has-been-the-making-of-me.html


Here's a feminist who believes all women are goddesses and that the world needs an "International Castration Day" to take place on father's day whereby all the females in a village, town, city, state need to physically emasculate males through forced castration. She's taking donations on her site.

http://femitheistreborn.blogspot.com/2012/09/international-castration-day-refined.html

Silly? Yes. But people probably thought the same thing about homosexuality a long time ago as well. And now it's taking over so this could very well become a reality one day as well. There's enough males in society who seem to really hate themselves for being male, that or they just hate other men and want all the women to themselves and are willing to pander and bow down to women if they think it will land them in the sack with women. I call these men - manginas or white knights.

[Tchocky]

It shouldn't be this easy to have this much fun.

[August]

How is it different than explicitly excluding homosexuals? The aspect is already there, and the spin on it is that it's wrong unhealthy and unwanted.

That's a great point. If everyone just minded their own business and kept their mouth shut about where they prefer to dip their tallywhacker or where their neighbor is dipping theirs it wouldn't be a problem or a controversy. Unfortunately neither side is going to back off and that's why I think this could really damage if not destroy the BSA in the crossfire.

[August]

No more than people feeling uncomfortable with males teaching in daycares or sitting next to strange men on airplanes or boys showering with girls in gym class. Not every male is attracted to every female just the same but society has chosen to "protect" the comforts of those who are uncomfortable for a reason. But now society seems to be forcing gays on straight males and mixing them in an environment that makes straight males uncomfortable while gay boys get the privilege of looking at tons of male butt every day - much of it they may very well be attracted to. And if a straight male feel violated and beats the tar out of a gay male then I'm sure the straight male will get hit up with "hate crime" charges. It's totally unfair.

Excuse me but there is no excuse for beating up someone because they "feel violated".

[Tchocky]

No further than the discriminatory and exclusionary step of refusing access to all women to the Boy Scouts goes too far. The BSA is not a co-ed organization. The reason that the co-ed division exists is because of sexuality. Homosexuality is sexuality. What's the difference?
The practice of sexual segregation is well-established with single-sex schools, sports and so on.
There's an important distinction to be drawn here between gender and sexuality. Segregation of gender happens all the time with children, because boys and girls grow up differently in terms of development and biology and such. Segregation of sexuality doesn't and shouldn't happen. A gay boy* grows up the same as a straight boy, segregating this out further just causes problems, as far as I can see.

*=for sake of this argument let's assume sexuality is inherent

The same way it would if we made the Boy Scouts co-ed. You have brought sexual tension into a situation that did not openly contain it beforehand. You cannot deny it wouldn't have a major impact. Certainly an impact, not sure about major at all. I'm not sure it's worth the general negativity of excluding people on basis of sexuality, which as you point out is not what Scouting is about.


Putting on our pants in the morning was the true first level of complexity we face. There have been a lot of layers of complexity since. I never claimed sexual segregation makes the Boy Scouts complexity free just less so. Gotcha!

Whether that is a good thing or not depends I think upon the group. Do you think human sexual habits are something the Boy Scouts should be concerning itself with? Not at all, but the BSA is directly involving itself by excluding on the basis of sexual preference. Of course, the discussion now about changing that rule brings it all up again, but that should all quiet down once it's decided.

So you really think it won't be that big of a deal? Well good luck getting the churches to agree with you and they are the ones who keep Scouting going. There have been plenty of companies withdrawing donations because of the discriminatory policy, the scouts are out of money either way, perhaps.
If this causes the BSA to fragment and die will this exercise in social engineering have been worth it? I find that difficult to accept.Definitely a sad thing to happen, but if basic homophobia turns out to be the only thing holding it together then I'm not sure if it's worth keeping. Six of one :)

[garren]

Excuse me but there is no excuse for beating up someone because they "feel violated".

Go into any woman's bathroom in America and see if you don't get beaten out of there with fists and feet and purses and get arrested as well for being a perv. Are you saying women are wrong to do this? Or is it only wrong for men to fight back?

[garren]

That's a great point. If everyone just minded their own business and kept their mouth shut about where they prefer to dip their tallywhacker or where their neighbor is dipping theirs it wouldn't be a problem or a controversy. Unfortunately neither side is going to back off and that's why I think this could really damage if not destroy the BSA in the crossfire.

Straight people are silent about their sexuality. When's the last time you saw a straight pride parade? Seems like the gays are the ones rubbing their junk in everyone's face.

[Tchocky]

Straight people are silent about their sexuality. When's the last time you saw a straight pride parade? Seems like the gays are the ones rubbing their junk in everyone's face.

Gay pride exists because gay shame exists.

And that exists in part because of people like you.

[garren]

Gay pride exists because gay shame exists.

And that exists in part because of people like you.


But now there's straight pride and that exists because straight shame exists.

And that exists in part because of people like them.

The sword cuts both ways. But I don't think that mixing gays with straights is fair to straights. It's like forcing boys and girls into mix company and taking showers together and that would be fair to either boys or girls who would feel uncomfortable in that environment. I can't see how any father would allow his son to be potentially sexually violated. I worked in a youth basic training program one time and it allowed gays in and a 17 year old gay black kid raped a 14 year old white kid and his parents showed up and were outraged. They sued our program and we had to shut the program down after only 2 years of operation because that family got tons of money from the incident. We couldn't protect kids and that's exactly what's going to have in the BSA and it's going to rock the whole program because nothing like that has happened in the BSA yet that I'm aware of. First time it happens and people are going to be withdrawing their sons from it and never looking back. And with less churches donating to the program the BSA is going to be dead in the water within a year probably. Sad to see it go out this way. Political correctness has destroyed America.

[Tchocky]

But now there's straight pride and that exists because straight shame exists.

And that exists in part because of people like them.

The sword cuts both ways.


That's one of the most ridiculous & stupid things I've ever read. Seriously.

How many straight people get beaten up or shamed or bullied for their sexuality?

[garren]

That's one of the most ridiculous & stupid things I've ever read. Seriously.

How many straight people get beaten up or shamed or bullied for their sexuality?


There's been numerous straight people sexually assaulted and taken advantage of by gays. Just look at all the prison rape for one. It's not straight men raping gay men in prison.

[Tchocky]

There's been numerous straight people sexually assaulted and taken advantage of by gays. Just look at all the prison rape for one. It's not straight men raping gay men in prison.


Christ on a bike. FOR THEIR SEXUALITY

[garren]

Christ on a bike. FOR THEIR SEXUALITY

One would conclude that when a gay man takes advantage of a straight man he's taking advantage of his sexuality and trying to strip him of his sense of masculinity, his heterosexuality. Rape is not about sex. It's about stealing a person identity from him. And one of those things is the persons sexuality. They want you to feel dirty and violated. They often tell you that you are now a "b-ch" and no longer a man and that you've just been indoctrinated into the gay club. It's literally like vampirism in a way. You get bit and you are now gay and always will be your whole life because you'll never forget it. It doesn't matter if you don't practice gay sex when you get out of prison. You are forever gay if you ever had gay sex.

[August]

There's an important distinction to be drawn here between gender and sexuality. Segregation of gender happens all the time with children, because boys and girls grow up differently in terms of development and biology and such. Segregation of sexuality doesn't and shouldn't happen. A gay boy* grows up the same as a straight boy, segregating this out further just causes problems, as far as I can see.

Biology and development do not require more distinction than slightly different plumbing arraignments. Sexuality is the primary driver for segregating the genders, especially with teenagers. Anything else is artificially induced in relation to that.

Not at all, but the BSA is directly involving itself by excluding on the basis of sexual preference. Of course, the discussion now about changing that rule brings it all up again, but that should all quiet down once it's decided.

Unfortunately that takes cooperation from both sides. Regardless of the decision there will be continued reason to keep talking about it.

There have been plenty of companies withdrawing donations because of the discriminatory policy, the scouts are out of money either way, perhaps.

More than perhaps, I am sure you are correct. The gay rights issue has extended to just about every facet of American life. It's almost impossible not to take a side anymore. But what is the percentage of corporate support vs religious? Something like 20/80%? What's gonna hurt more?

...but if basic homophobia turns out to be the only thing holding it together then I'm not sure if it's worth keeping. Six of one :)

A Pyrrhic victory at best I think. I'm sure the churches and various other backers will continue with their own versions of Scouting. It's just the national non-secular organization that will loose out, and maybe it's time for that anyways. The nation is tearing itself apart on so many other issues it might as well tear on this one as well.

[August]

You are forever gay if you ever had gay sex.

You really should stop before you completely sink yourself.

[garren]

You really should stop before you completely sink yourself.

I'll be quiet if you'll do the same. Equality right?

[Tchocky]

One would conclude that when a gay man takes advantage of a straight man he's taking advantage of his sexuality and trying to strip him of his sense of masculinity, his heterosexuality. Rape is not about sex. It's about stealing a person identity from him. And one of those things is the persons sexuality. They want you to feel dirty and violated. They often tell you that you are now a "b-ch" and no longer a man and that you've just been indoctrinated into the gay club. It's literally like vampirism in a way. You get bit and you are now gay and always will be your whole life because you'll never forget it. It doesn't matter if you don't practice gay sex when you get out of prison. You are forever gay if you ever had gay sex.

Multiple Messiahs on multiple bicycles. There's not much point continuing this, seeing as you're convinced homosexuality is the same as vampirism.

Biology and development do not require more distinction than slightly different plumbing arraignments. Sexuality is the primary driver for segregating the genders, especially with teenagers. Anything else is artificially induced in relation to that. From what I understand sexuality is but a part of it. Genders mature and develop at different times and rates, different moods and changes. That said, mixed-sex schools get along just fine, as do single-sex schools.

Also gender is split roughly fifty/fifty, whereas sexuality is certainly a majority/minority situation that I don't believe warrants segregation, and I think any segregation perpetuates negative attitudes, especially in younger people.

Unfortunately that takes cooperation from both sides. Regardless of the decision there will be continued reason to keep talking about it. Certainly not the level of discourse we're having now, and certainly not within scouting troops. I'd say once the BSA gets rid of these unhelpful restrictions it will get back to the business of Scouting. The adjustment will be minor, unless homophobia takes up more time in Scouting than I know. Just guessing, mind :)

More than perhaps, I am sure you are correct. The gay rights issue has extended to just about every facet of American life. It's almost impossible not to take a side anymore. But what is the percentage of corporate support vs religious? Something like 20/80%? What's gonna hurt more? Oh I've no idea about the levels, you may well be right. I'd guess more religious organisations support it. Question is whether being exclusionary and fencing yourself off to a sector of society is worth it just to appease these organisations?

A Pyrrhic victory at best I think. I'm sure the churches and various other backers will continue with their own versions of Scouting. It's just the national non-secular organization that will loose out, and maybe it's time for that anyways. The nation is tearing itself apart on so many other issues it might as well tear on this one as well. The rise of support and acceptance for homosexuals (and corresponding decrease in homophobic policymaking) has been blisteringly fast in recent years. I don't see it being a wedge issue for much longer, so I don't see the "tearing apart" happening here to any great extent.

[Tribesman]

They might as well be. Like I said it's adding a whole new and complex aspect to Scouting that didn't exist beforehand. It's going to have a greater impact than a lot of people think.
Given the BP was reputedly a bit of a whoopsie isn't it just going back to the roots?

Why does everyone assume that the person with the unpopular opinion in any particular forum is trolling? Because from this end of the ship it sure feels like I'm being trolled just the same. Perhaps a moderator should come and split the ship in half with a torpedo and end this forum if we can't agree to disagree without the finger pointing and accusations of trolling.
I think the accusations of trolling are because people don't think you can really hold views which are as nonsensical as the ones you are writing.
You appear like a parody of an mindless extremist nutcase.

No further than the discriminatory and exclusionary step of refusing access to all women to the Boy Scouts goes too far. The BSA is not a co-ed organization. The reason that the co-ed division exists is because of sexuality. Homosexuality is sexuality. What's the difference?



The same way it would if we made the Boy Scouts co-ed. You have brought sexual tension into a situation that did not openly contain it beforehand. You cannot deny it wouldn't have a major impact.


The boy scouts in its homeplace is co-ed, it doesn't appear to have made any impact over there

It shouldn't be this easy to have this much fun.
Call it a godsend:03:

You really should stop before you completely sink yourself.
If he is trying to be serious he sunk himself with his first post, so its a bit late now.

[Red October1984]

You really should stop before you completely sink yourself.

August, it's too late to save this guy. He's already stepped on the landmine...and then survived to take fire from the machine gun nest. :har:

[garren]

Multiple Messiahs on multiple bicycles. There's not much point continuing this, seeing as you're convinced homosexuality is the same as vampirism.

From what I understand sexuality is but a part of it. Genders mature and develop at different times and rates, different moods and changes. That said, mixed-sex schools get along just fine, as do single-sex schools.

Also gender is split roughly fifty/fifty, whereas sexuality is certainly a majority/minority situation that I don't believe warrants segregation, and I think any segregation perpetuates negative attitudes, especially in younger people.

Certainly not the level of discourse we're having now, and certainly not within scouting troops. I'd say once the BSA gets rid of these unhelpful restrictions it will get back to the business of Scouting. The adjustment will be minor, unless homophobia takes up more time in Scouting than I know. Just guessing, mind :)

Oh I've no idea about the levels, you may well be right. I'd guess more religious organisations support it. Question is whether being exclusionary and fencing yourself off to a sector of society is worth it just to appease these organisations?

The rise of support and acceptance for homosexuals (and corresponding decrease in homophobic policymaking) has been blisteringly fast in recent years. I don't see it being a wedge issue for much longer, so I don't see the "tearing apart" happening here to any great extent.

It's always going to be segregated! Just because you mix people together through forced or changed policy doesn't mean they are going to be fine with it. Go to any school or prison in America. What do blacks and whites and Hispanics and straights and men and women do in mixed environments? They segregate themselves. So no matter how you try to convince yourself that this is a good step forward it's really not going to make a difference anyway and the kids will quickly segregate themselves from each other which will only cause more problems really. There was no male on female rape in the military until they forced women unto the men in the Navy and put them on the ships. Now there's a huge epidemic of male on female rape in the military. They said it wasn't going to be a problem. They were wrong. It's obviously a huge problem. So much so there's even movies about it now. So what's gonna happen? They gonna ban men from the military and let the women have it? Probably. That seems to be the answer nowadays. And then after some time they will try to reintroduce men back into the military and women will moan and grown and say that men aren't welcome. Government LOVES the games it creates and plays with the people.

The government forces integration. The people don't want it. Incidents become problematic and the government comes back and discriminates against the group that was there first with radical policies to cover up the mess they (the government) made. And here's the other thing - it's not the people or even religion that's the problem. It's government. Government is what's creating conflict in society and depends on conflict to keep itself relevant. Religion may have been the problem a long time ago when it was the government over the people, but now it's actual government that's the problem and making these issues into huge issues and creating hate and discrimination by forcing one group onto another. That creates conflict and the government uses that conflict to validate itself to grow itself to "control" the people it governs over. BIG government weak people. BIG government turns tyrannical and the people who are so divided and mixed up are too weak to rise up and remove the tyrants from office and take back their country. Obama seems to be a master at this divide and conquer bit. Everything with him is social issues. He doesn't pay any attention to the economy or jobs. It's only this group and that group and I'm gonna make it all better but he only makes it worse. Obama is the worst president ever next to Lincoln on how divided a country he can create.

[Stealhead]

Gay vampires? Hell yeah I'm in to that if they are hot lesbians.

Am I partly gay if I say or type the word gay?

[garren]

Gay vampires? Hell yeah I'm in to that if they are hot lesbians.

Am I partly gay if I say or type the word gay?

OMG, you just offended the woman group because you're not allowed to call them "hot" anymore. That's sexist these days. Better yet, just don't talk anymore cause you're sure to offend someone. Sssshhhh, don't offend the trees....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUDEmMjC-c

[Red October1984]

Gay vampires? Hell yeah I'm in to that if they are hot lesbians.

Am I partly gay if I say or type the word gay?

No. If you say that word you are completely that way. I'm not because I haven't said that word.

Now the vampire thing? Nah... Vampires aren't that great. :arrgh!:

[Tribesman]

Just a couple of facts to address some errors in certain peoples arguements.

The BSA has a policy of recruiting both male and females at all levels of leadership and for staffing their camps.
As far as co-ed goes 135 of 161 countries have co-ed scout movements.
Those that don't are places like Saudi, Kuwait and.... the US.

It does seem like the subsidairy arguements being brought in to support the rationality of a ban do not appear to be supported by fact

[Tchocky]

It's always going to be segregated! Just because you mix people together through forced or changed policy doesn't mean they are going to be fine with it. Go to any school or prison in America. What do blacks and whites and Hispanics and straights and men and women do in mixed environments? They segregate themselves. So no matter how you try to convince yourself that this is a good step forward it's really not going to make a difference anyway and the kids will quickly segregate themselves from each other which will only cause more problems really. So it's better to have the discrimination forced upon people to avoid problems? Seriously, what's your point? People tend to hang out with those they identify with, that's no surprise. What you're saying is we should segregate out groups of people so that they have to hang out with those they identify with and nobody else.

There was no male on female rape in the military until they forced women unto the men in the Navy and put them on the ships. There's no forcing. Previously women were forced not to be in the military.

Now there's a huge epidemic of male on female rape in the military. They said it wasn't going to be a problem. They were wrong. It's obviously a huge problem. So much so there's even movies about it now. So what's gonna happen? They gonna ban men from the military and let the women have it? Probably. That seems to be the answer nowadays. More like punish rapists and try to fix the problem. The problem you're alluding to is not one of integration, it's one of basic criminality and institutional accountability.

The government forces integration. The people don't want it. Incidents become problematic and the government comes back and discriminates against the group that was there first with radical policies to cover up the mess they (the government) made. And here's the other thing - it's not the people or even religion that's the problem. It's government. I've no idea what you're talking about here.

Government is what's creating conflict in society and depends on conflict to keep itself relevant. Religion may have been the problem a long time ago when it was the government over the people, but now it's actual government that's the problem and making these issues into huge issues and creating hate and discrimination by forcing one group onto another. That creates conflict and the government uses that conflict to validate itself to grow itself to "control" the people it governs over.

The BSA decision is entirely independent of the government as it is a private organisation.

Please continue rambling.

[soopaman2]

Does this Garrin guy wear a clown mask and cackle as he says this crap, or is he serious?

Reminds me of a surly clown at a dunk booth. most people stop trying to hit the target that dunks the clown, and just tries to wail the clown with the ball.

How many bruises from thrown baseballs does this stooge have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di5B1TiApDo

*Krusty the clown laugh*

[Stealhead]

He is completely incorrect in his assessment about the integration of women into the military.They started this way back in 1975 and only in the past few years has the number of reported sexual assaults risen.As Tribesman said there are other reasons for this.When I was in Air Force they had higher standards after 9/11 they started to lower them the Army and Marines in particular.You allow dirt bags in and they tend to do dirt bag things.

And garren I am living proof that you are wrong my father is white and my mother was born in Iran there are several million people like me in world that are mixed race that disprove you.

[garren]

Does this Garrin guy wear a clown mask and cackle as he says this crap, or is he serious?

Reminds me of a surly clown at a dunk booth. most people stop trying to hit the target that dunks the clown, and just tries to wail the clown with the ball.

How many bruises from thrown baseballs does this stooge have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di5B1TiApDo

*Krusty the clown laugh*


That's trolling

[soopaman2]

That's trolling

U mad?

Dude, you make me look reasonable.

Trolling, or calling out your bigotry and lack of open mindedness in a comical fashion?

Call it what ya want ol boy.

I know a LOLcow when I see one

(get it? we are laughing at you)

[garren]

Multiple Messiahs on multiple bicycles. There's not much point continuing this, seeing as you're convinced homosexuality is the same as vampirism.

From what I understand sexuality is but a part of it. Genders mature and develop at different times and rates, different moods and changes. That said, mixed-sex schools get along just fine, as do single-sex schools.

Also gender is split roughly fifty/fifty, whereas sexuality is certainly a majority/minority situation that I don't believe warrants segregation, and I think any segregation perpetuates negative attitudes, especially in younger people.

Certainly not the level of discourse we're having now, and certainly not within scouting troops. I'd say once the BSA gets rid of these unhelpful restrictions it will get back to the business of Scouting. The adjustment will be minor, unless homophobia takes up more time in Scouting than I know. Just guessing, mind :)

Oh I've no idea about the levels, you may well be right. I'd guess more religious organisations support it. Question is whether being exclusionary and fencing yourself off to a sector of society is worth it just to appease these organisations?

The rise of support and acceptance for homosexuals (and corresponding decrease in homophobic policymaking) has been blisteringly fast in recent years. I don't see it being a wedge issue for much longer, so I don't see the "tearing apart" happening here to any great extent.


There's an obvious divide among the people. Isn't it obvious? So the government and gay supporters throwing fuel on the fire is your answer. Let's just enrage the hell out of the one side that is against this absurdity. We don't even allow straight males to shower with straight females but we're going to allow gay males to shower with each other and with straight males? So gays have more privilege than heterosexuals? Why not segregate them so they can have their own thing. You just admitted that people segregate themselves based on common interests anyways so how is it discriminating against them if they're going to do it anyways? What you're arguing for is that gays won't be allowed to trespass against another group that doesn't agree with their way of life. Well ain't that shame! Isn't that groups rights and concerns valid too? Hell, let's force Jews to congregate with Christians and Christians to congregate with Muslims while we're at it. Because what that is IS forced integration - a part of the New World Order phenomenon of getting everyone to be just like everyone else and not celebrating diversity at all. Because when you integrate people into one large group, popular opinion takes place an everyone will be forced to comply and do just as everyone else does or be an outcast and feel unwelcomed - sort of like on here as a matter of fact where I'm taking on like 10 of you turkeys by myself with very little backing. But I do have a valid argument and all I'm getting for it is mockery and shaming for my sexual beliefs. Now you have your proof that it goes both ways but you're so bigoted in your views that you don't care about mine. You just want to trespass on my way of life and that's very wrong. I'm not trying to get involved in the gay functions out there but they are certainly trying to get into mine. There's enough room in this world for them to have their land and me and my crowd to have ours. It doesn't have to be an integrated nightmare for everyone.

[garren]

U mad?

Dude, you make me look reasonable.

Trolling, or calling out your bigotry and lack of open mindedness in a comical fashion?

Call it what ya want ol boy.

I know a LOLcow when I see one

What's good for the goose pal...

I see you're side of the argument as being bigoted as well. But I'm not calling you a clown and making personal attacks on you either. I just want to be heard and respected just the same if that's alright with you?

[Tchocky]

We don't even allow straight males to shower with straight females but we're going to allow gay males to shower with each other and with straight males? So gays have more privilege than heterosexuals? Why not segregate them so they can have their own thing. You just admitted that people segregate themselves based on common interests anyways so how is it discriminating against them if they're going to do it anyways? What? "if people will choose to do it anyway we may as well legally force them". You see how stupid this is.

Hell, let's force Jews to congregate with Christians and Christians to congregate with Muslims while we're at it. You're missing the point by several light years. This is not forcing people together, the entire point of equal rights is that you don't get to discriminate against people on basis of sexuality. This does not equal "forcing people to integrate".

Because what that is IS forced integration - a part of the New World Order phenomenon of getting everyone to be just like everyone else and not celebrating diversity at all. Oh right. Never mind then. It's the reptilians working through the Rothschilds, obviously.

Because when you integrate people into one large group, popular opinion takes place an everyone will be forced to comply and do just as everyone else does or be an outcast and feel unwelcomed - sort of like on here as a matter of fact where I'm taking on like 10 of you turkeys by myself with very little backing. Again, you're missing the point. Rescinding discrimination does not equal forced integration.

But I do have a valid argument and all I'm getting for it is mockery and shaming for my sexual beliefs. The reason you're getting mockery is because you are saying very mockable things. For example - gay sex is vampirism.

Now you have your proof that it goes both ways but you're so bigoted in your views that you don't care about mine. You just want to trespass on my way of life and that's very wrong. Can't say I care too much about what you think, no.

BUT

Unless your beliefs include "everyone must pay attention to me all the time" I don't see how my disdain trespasses on what you call your "way of life".

I'm not trying to get involved in the gay functions out there but they are certainly trying to get into mine. There's enough room in this world for them to have their land and me and my crowd to have ours.AH yes. As long as we send them all off to a different country everything will be fine.

Glory be.

[soopaman2]

What's good for the goose pal...

I see you're side of the argument as being bigoted as well. But I'm not calling you a clown and making personal attacks on you either. I just want to be heard and respected just the same if that's alright with you?


That is fine sir.

But how does their lifestyle effect you?

Exactly, unless they are commiting sodomy in the street then what concern is it of you?

Even if they are, laugh at it, and move on.

Unless you are somewhat enticed by the lifestyle, Usually the biggest contenders, are often times the biggest offenders.

It is ok Garrin, we will not judge you, be who you want to be.:woot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1FrqwZyKw

Let her words speak to you.

[Red October1984]

I see you're side of the argument as being bigoted as well. But I'm not calling you a clown and making personal attacks on you either. I just want to be heard and respected just the same if that's alright with you?

Oh my god.... Really? The moment he suddenly lightly insults you...you get all defensive?

You've said enough to where I doubt there's much respect for you on this forum. I'm not personally attacking you...but you need to just stop if you've got anything in that noggin of yours.

Or you could continue and give us all some more laughs. This has been a funny thread to follow...

[AngusJS]

Back in my day the BSA wasn't about sex, let alone gay sex. It'll be sad if the Scout organization tears itself apart over this issue and that's what i'm afraid will happen.By banning gay members from the start, it's the BSA itself that made it about sex.

This is merely a case of an organization finally reversing foolish policies.

[soopaman2]

By banning gay members from the start, it's the BSA itself that made it about sex.

This is merely a case of an organization finally reversing foolish policies.


Point, match, win.

[Red October1984]

By banning gay members from the start, it's the BSA itself that made it about sex.

This is merely a case of an organization finally reversing foolish policies.

Until Garren showed up. Then it became a humor thread...

It's sad how unforgiving General Topics can be. :03:

[soopaman2]

Until Garren showed up. Then it became a humor thread...

It's sad how unforgiving General Topics can be. :03:

Yes, Garriin, we are just as terrible as you, the difference is we are laughing as we post., you are whipped up in a fundy bible driven rage froth.

We get it, and your beliefs are valid, you cannot get angry if people do not agree, or even mock it. Even Jesus would mock you, after all he hung out with tax collectors and hookers, the 2 undesirables of the day.

Jesus forgives, something the frothing fundies always seem to miss. Turn the other cheek, how come you guys are so selective on your bible verses?

[August]

By banning gay members from the start, it's the BSA itself that made it about sex.

Believe it or not our society hasn't always considered children to be sexual beings.

This is merely a case of an organization finally reversing foolish policies.

No this is a case of an organization that has bowed to political pressure by a vocal minority group.

[August]

Point, match, win.

In your mind maybe.

[garren]

Point, match, win.

If you think so.

[soopaman2]

I was gonna ask what ya meant by that statement but I read your next post.

So you think the scouts should be anti gay? Considering how you think they bowed to pressure, rather than doing what is right.

What makes a gay a lesser human, or worthy of exclusion?

You are almost agreeing with him, just wording your arguments better.

No vampires at least :)

If they recieve public money, it should stop. Then they can be as divisive as they want, just don't cry when they got no members due to being on par with the KKK when it comes to hate and exclusion of groups.

Because some invisible spook in the sky told you so, silly people.

[garren]

What? "if people will choose to do it anyway we may as well legally force them". You see how stupid this is.

You're missing the point by several light years. This is not forcing people together, the entire point of equal rights is that you don't get to discriminate against people on basis of sexuality. This does not equal "forcing people to integrate".

Oh right. Never mind then. It's the reptilians working through the Rothschilds, obviously.

Again, you're missing the point. Rescinding discrimination does not equal forced integration.

The reason you're getting mockery is because you are saying very mockable things. For example - gay sex is vampirism.

Can't say I care too much about what you think, no.

BUT

Unless your beliefs include "everyone must pay attention to me all the time" I don't see how my disdain trespasses on what you call your "way of life".

AH yes. As long as we send them all off to a different country everything will be fine.

Glory be.

Well, I'm a father and all you've done is convinced me to not put my straight son into the boy scouts for his safety and security and personal comfort.

[garren]

If they recieve public money, it should stop. Then they can be as divisive as they want, just don't cry when they got no members due to being on par with the KKK when it comes to hate and exclusion of groups.

Because some invisible spook in the sky told you so, silly people.


The KKK has more members than you probably realize. It's actually growing in size again.

And your comment about "spook in the sky" is very offensive towards the religious. Because you choose not to believe in a God doesn't make you right. Science hasn't proven he doesn't exist. But for your own safety you'd probably be best off not going outside during a storm. You might get zapped - and deservingly so.

[Cybermat47]

Go to any school.... in America. What do blacks and whites and Hispanics and straights and men and women do in mixed environments? They segregate themselves.


Well, if you're right (which I highly doubt), then I'm glad I live in Australia, a country where atheists, Christians, men and women, whites and blacks, actually get along.

Some men and women actually get... :shifty:.... romantically involved :o

[Red October1984]

Well, I'm a father and all you've done is convinced me to not put my straight son into the boy scouts for his safety and security and personal comfort.

Out of curiosity...what state do you live in? :hmmm:

[Tribesman]

Well, I'm a father and all you've done is convinced me to not put my straight son into the boy scouts for his safety and security and personal comfort.
But surely you would have kept you children back from scouting anyway after they dropped the remaining racial segregation in 1974.


The KKK has more members than you probably realize. It's actually growing in size again.

And your comment about "spook in the sky" is very offensive towards the religious. Because you choose not to believe in a God doesn't make you right. Science hasn't proven he doesn't exist. But for your own safety you'd probably be best off not going outside during a storm. You might get zapped - and deservingly so.
That really says it all.
But please keep posting

[Red October1984]

Some men and women actually get... :shifty:.... romantically involved :o

*Looks around*

Really? I heard they kiss when they do that. :hmm2:

I don't know what kind of America Garren is living in but IMO...(FYI Garren I am a high school student) we do not have segregation problems.

[Nippelspanner]

Garren, you asked for respect when someone was direct towards you, yet you diminish people who are 'different'...

Uhm... what!? :/\\!!

[Tchocky]

Out of curiosity...what state do you live in? :hmmm:


He's in a terrible state.

[August]

I was gonna ask what ya meant by that statement but I read your next post.

So you think the scouts should be anti gay? Considering how you think they bowed to pressure, rather than doing what is right.

What makes a gay a lesser human, or worthy of exclusion?

You are almost agreeing with him, just wording your arguments better.

No vampires at least :)

You speaking to me? Because from my seat you're both wrong.

If they recieve public money, it should stop. Then they can be as divisive as they want, just don't cry when they got no members due to being on par with the KKK when it comes to hate and exclusion of groups.

Yeah like the BSA depends on public money for their existence. Check your facts. The BSA depends on support from religions more than anything else. As for your KKK comparison that's kind of silly. You might as well compare the BSA to the NAACP or any one of the thousands of organizations that have membership limitations for one reason or the other.

Because some invisible spook in the sky told you so, silly people.

Why don't you keep your religion bashing to the one of the many threads dedicated to it?

[Red October1984]

He's in a terrible state.

I was hoping for like Mississippi or one of those other Southern States that sometimes have people who like to bash other races, religions, etc. :hmmm:

Terrible works too.... :cool:

[garren]

*Looks around*

Really? I heard they kiss when they do that. :hmm2:

I don't know what kind of America Garren is living in but IMO...(FYI Garren I am a high school student) we do not have segregation problems.

Really? You personally witnessed everyone in Australia is perfectly content? I think you're BSing here. Half your country hates your PM from what I've seen.

[garren]

He's in a terrible state.

State hating now? Bigot.

[Tchocky]

No, I meant you're in a state of heightened fear, paranoia and ignorance.


That sort of state.

[Nippelspanner]

Really? You personally witnessed everyone in Australia is perfectly content? I think you're BSing here. Half your country hates your PM from what I've seen.

Really? You personally witnessed everyone in the USA is discontent? I think you're BSing here. Half your country hates your president from what I've seen.

[Cybermat47]

Really? You personally witnessed everyone in Australia is perfectly content? I think you're BSing here. Half your country hates your PM from what I've seen.

Umm... Red's an American. I'm the Australian. And no, not everyone is content. But your post suggested that everyone in America hated anyone who was different, and because that's not what goes on here, I doubt that it's what happens in the USA. And yes, half of our country hates Julia Gillard. But that's because she didn't support legalized LGBT marriage, because most atheists, Christians, etc supported LGBT marriage.

[garren]

But surely you would have kept you children back from scouting anyway after they dropped the remaining racial segregation in 1974.



That really says it all.
But please keep posting


Well, I wasn't the one who said "spook". That was this guy. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2062151&postcount=135)

[garren]

Umm... Red's an American. I'm the Australian. And no, not everyone is content. But your post suggested that everyone in America hated anyone who was different, and because that's not what goes on here, I doubt that it's what happens in the USA. And yes, half of our country hates Julia Gillard. But that's because she didn't support legalized LGBT marriage, because most atheists, Christians, etc supported LGBT marriage.


It's what America does best - hating. The government did it and even killed off the Indians and then told everyone else that they couldn't do what the government did.

My country tis of thee, sweet land of bigotry, of thee I sing.

[garren]

Really? You personally witnessed everyone in the USA is discontent? I think you're BSing here. Half your country hates your president from what I've seen.


Ummm, yeah. I think you understand.

[garren]

Out of curiosity...what state do you live in? :hmmm:


Canada

[Cybermat47]

It's what America does best - hating. The government did it and even killed off the Indians and then told everyone else that they couldn't do what the government did.

My country tis of thee, sweet land of bigotry, of thee I sing.

Umm...







WTF.

[Nippelspanner]

Ummm, yeah. I think you understand.
You obviously don't...

[garren]

You obviously don't...

Then you must not be important enough for my interests.

[Platapus]

In some way, I like seeing well fed trolls, but can't always say I enjoy watching the feeding. :D

[garren]

In some way, I like seeing well fed trolls, but can't always say I enjoy watching the feeding. :D

Oh the hypocrisy is just amazing on here.

There's plenty left for you TROLL!

[Tchocky]

Platapus....trolll....nope.

[garren]

Platapus....trolll....nope.


His post WAS trolling. It was a personal attack on me. Him claiming I'm a troll by trolling himself because he doesn't like my difference of opinion about homosexuality. This forum is full of socialists apparently who see progress through immorality. Well, I'm not for that and I'm proud of my heritage and upbringing and I still have my faith in God. Not going to let a few atheists and gays convince me that they are good people when their souls are hopelessly lost. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that a pro-military site would have so many leftists and socialists on it. That I wasn't expecting but it just further convinces me that this world, especially the USA, is heading down the toilet at a record pace. Perhaps that's a good thing. Eventually it's got to hit rock bottom and crash. Maybe then people will start to believe again that there's a trend with all this gay stuff and Sodom and Gomorrah and Israel and Rome all having fallen from grace for entertaining mass debauchery of sin. Apparently the words of the Bible are even more accurate than I realized. It said this would happen.

[Tchocky]

Well if the Bible said it it must be true.

[Red October1984]

It's what America does best - hating. The government did it and even killed off the Indians and then told everyone else that they couldn't do what the government did.

My country tis of thee, sweet land of bigotry, of thee I sing.

America doesn't hate the best. Have you ever been to Iran? North Korea?

Obviously you hate America enough to insult your own country.

Canada

Well that makes you a liar too! If you actually do live in Canada, why are you whining in this thread about an American issue. :03:

Umm...

WTF.

My thoughts almost-exactly.

Then you must not be important enough for my interests.

Oh! Man. Drop the bomb there. Obviously if we aren't White Supremacists we're not good enough.

Oh the hypocrisy is just amazing on here.

There's plenty left for you TROLL!

You have hit the maximum amount of idiot, burst through the roof, and kept on going.

EDIT: I wonder what colorful opinions you have about soldiers who fought to protect you. :03:

[Nippelspanner]

Well, I'm not for that and I'm proud of my heritage and upbringing and I still have my faith in God. Not going to let a few atheists and gays convince me that they are good people when their souls are hopelessly lost. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that a pro-military site would have so many leftists and socialists on it. That I wasn't expecting but it just further convinces me that this world, especially the USA, is heading down the toilet at a record pace. Perhaps that's a good thing. Eventually it's got to hit rock bottom and crash. Maybe then people will start to believe again that there's a trend with all this gay stuff and Sodom and Gomorrah and Israel and Rome all having fallen from grace for entertaining mass debauchery of sin. Apparently the words of the Bible are even more accurate than I realized. It said this would happen. You just went full retard. Never go full retard...

You just went full retard, never go full retard...

[garren]

America doesn't hate the best. Have you ever been to Iran? North Korea?

Obviously you hate America enough to insult your own country.



Well that makes you a liar too! If you actually do live in Canada, why are you whining in this thread about an American issue. :03:



My thoughts almost-exactly.



Oh! Man. Drop the bomb there. Obviously if we aren't White Supremacists we're not good enough.



You have hit the maximum amount of idiot, burst through the roof, and kept on going.


White supremacist? Me? Where did I ever say I was for white supremacy? I just know a lot about the Klan, uh maybe because I'm black! Hello!

I lived in Canada most of my life. Now I live in the deep South of the US where my family and ancestors are from Montgomery, Alabama. And believe it or not, my ancestors fought in the US Civil war for the South and were and still are proud of the South. Slavery? No way. It was about seceding from the tyrannical overreach of the North who wanted to control the South.

[Red October1984]

You just went full retard, never go full retard...

:rotfl2:

From the book of Tropic Thunder.

[Armistead]

This is one of the ideas behind segregating sexes. The concept that nobody need feel bashful (or at least feel less so) around people who don't have a reason to look. I don't see why this concept remains valid for gender but not sexuality when they are basically the same in their effect upon the group.

What mixing genders OR allowing open homosexuality does is completely change the social dynamic of any group by adding a whole new layer of complexity to it and I think in the case of the Boy Scouts it is a level of complexity that is unhealthy and unnecessary. The Scouts are not supposed to be about sex of any kind.

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. That is what they are there to learn.

I believe anything else is best reserved for learning about elsewhere.

Geesh, I totally agree with August.

[Tchocky]

Slavery? No way. It was about seceding from the tyrannical overreach of the North who wanted to control the South.

Ah brilliant. Feels like ages since we've had that thread.


Sic Semper Subsim!

[Armistead]

His post WAS trolling. It was a personal attack on me. Him claiming I'm a troll by trolling himself because he doesn't like my difference of opinion about homosexuality. This forum is full of socialists apparently who see progress through immorality. Well, I'm not for that and I'm proud of my heritage and upbringing and I still have my faith in God. Not going to let a few atheists and gays convince me that they are good people when their souls are hopelessly lost. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that a pro-military site would have so many leftists and socialists on it. That I wasn't expecting but it just further convinces me that this world, especially the USA, is heading down the toilet at a record pace. Perhaps that's a good thing. Eventually it's got to hit rock bottom and crash. Maybe then people will start to believe again that there's a trend with all this gay stuff and Sodom and Gomorrah and Israel and Rome all having fallen from grace for entertaining mass debauchery of sin. Apparently the words of the Bible are even more accurate than I realized. It said this would happen.

Yea, we need to get back to christian values, burn witches, kill gays, women submitting, let priest go back to torturing anyone that doesn't fall in line with scripture. Yes, bring back morality
:yeah:

[Red October1984]

White supremacist? Me? Where did I ever say I was for white supremacy? I just know a lot about the Klan, uh maybe because I'm black! Hello!

I lived in Canada most of my life. Now I live in the deep South of the US where my family and ancestors are from Montgomery, Alabama. And believe it or not, my ancestors fought in the US Civil war for the South and were and still are proud of the South. Slavery? No way. It was about seceding from the tyrannical overreach of the North who wanted to control the South.

At this point you have to realize that we are playing with you. You've crossed the line several times, seems like. This forum isn't full of leftists and socialists. You have to remember. This is not a US only forum and there are tons of different points of view.

You're Black? That's cool. I don't have anything against you for your race. Race is not a problem for me.

You lived in Canada but now Deep South? Cool! I have nothing against you! You have to calm down and take a step back from the table before you jump to conclusions about personal attacks.

Your ancestors fought in the Civil War for the South? Still yet, I have nothing against you. I have ancestors that fought in the war too. The thing you have to understand is that the North already HAD control over the south. The South wasn't a separate nation being invaded by another. Sure, the South wanted to split...but just think. Could the South have survived without support from the North? The South was mainly agriculture. They couldn't have sustained a nation without some amount of industry. The South probably would've depended on the North's trade anyway.

The thing with America is, we're all in this together whether we like it or not.

My home state of Missouri had slaves and there were battles fought here and there are still people who believe in the South and stuff.... I understand what you mean by your post...

The thing with your posts is that they are very contradictory and hateful. You claim to be under personal attack and that seems to bother you...but what about all the people you are insulting? You've insulted all kinds of groups of people. Gays, Women, etc.

What if there were Gay members on this website?

I know we have a few women on here.

You have to calm down and think rationally.

[Armistead]

White supremacist? Me? Where did I ever say I was for white supremacy? I just know a lot about the Klan, uh maybe because I'm black! Hello!

I lived in Canada most of my life. Now I live in the deep South of the US where my family and ancestors are from Montgomery, Alabama. And believe it or not, my ancestors fought in the US Civil war for the South and were and still are proud of the South. Slavery? No way. It was about seceding from the tyrannical overreach of the North who wanted to control the South.


I think you're a flaming liberal, pretending to be an extreme radical.

[Armistead]

What if there were Gay members on this website?

I know we have a few women on here.

You have to calm down and think rationally.

I'm gay and I'm an Admiral.......

[August]

I think you're a flaming liberal, pretending to be an extreme radical.

I think you are right.

[Red October1984]

I think you're a flaming liberal, pretending to be an extreme radical.

:rotfl2: For some reason that's just hilarious.

I'm gay and I'm an Admiral.......

Gay? No problem. I personally don't support gay marriage or abortion being a Catholic....but I'm not going to hate you for it.

Admiral? :salute: A self appointed one at that.

[garren]

I think you're a flaming liberal, pretending to be an extreme radical.


So extreme I voted for Romney sucka! I actually wanted Rick Santorum to win. But I am black, I live in a mostly white upper-class neighborhood and work a job that pays well. I don't believe in handouts, affirmative action (some white people say I got a handout when I strived hard to get to where I'm at. Other blacks are holding me back by being lazy), and I have a white wife and two mixed boys on the honor roll. I believe in gun rights and I think Obama is setting America back really bad on spending and his social division of the US is not helping my race out at all just making us look like a bunch of free loading race card whiners who can't achieve anything because of some myth that white people are anti-black. I've met some white people who are anti-black but very few. I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve like all these other tools in America, like the gays for instance, who are playing the same BS game my race is playing with white America. I'm tired of being perceived as being a victim because of the color of my skin and I'm tired of everyone in America striving to be victims. Because in America those who go to the bottom get the power of the government's backing to elevate them. The quickest way to the top in America is to dive to the bottom, be a victim of some imaginary evil, and claim you need government assistance. It's bankrupting America and going to crash because white America is so pint up with self-guilt for something that happened a long time ago that they don't realize they are being taken advantage of.

[Stealhead]

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/1299505846_concert-throw-up_zps10f7111c.gif (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/datsun260zyojimbo/media/1299505846_concert-throw-up_zps10f7111c.gif.html)

Troll eat too much....... try to rant more but not a great success.Goes back to Stormfront.

[Red October1984]

Troll eat too much....... try to rant more but not a great success.

I skimmed through his older posts and this is the first time he's been a troll. He was pretty civilized before... :hmmm:

What happened Garren? Did this thread strike a nerve or something?:hmmm:

[Armistead]

:rotfl2: For some reason that's just hilarious.



Gay? No problem. I personally don't support gay marriage or abortion being a Catholic....but I'm not going to hate you for it.

Admiral? :salute: A self appointed one at that.


Anyway, glad you have no problem sharing a bunk on my sub. Now, where'd those peanuts go....:oops:

{I still remember when gay was happy, today I'm gay, tomorrow I may be mad}

[Stealhead]

I skimmed through his older posts and this is the first time he's been a troll. He was pretty civilized before... :hmmm:



Like crack it only takes one hit to become a troll.He does not have a very extensive history beyond this thread really all of his other posts are gaming related there is nothing to judge his general opinion outside of this thread.

[Red October1984]

So extreme I voted for Romney sucka! I actually wanted Rick Santorum to win. But I am black, I live in a mostly white upper-class neighborhood and work a job that pays well. I don't believe in handouts, affirmative action (some white people say I got a handout when I strived hard to get to where I'm at. Other blacks are holding me back by being lazy), and I have a white wife and two mixed boys on the honor roll. I believe in gun rights and I think Obama is setting America back really bad on spending and his social division of the US is not helping my race out at all just making us look like a bunch of free loading race card whiners who can't achieve anything because of some myth that white people are anti-black. I've met some white people who are anti-black but very few. I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve like all these other tools in America, like the gays for instance, who are playing the same BS game my race is playing with white America. I'm tired of being perceived as being a victim because of the color of my skin and I'm tired of everyone in America striving to be victims. Because in America those who go to the bottom get the power of the government's backing to elevate them. The quickest way to the top in America is to dive to the bottom, be a victim of some imaginary evil, and claim you need government assistance. It's bankrupting America and going to crash because white America is so pint up with self-guilt for something that happened a long time ago that they don't realize they are being taken advantage of.


I can actually understand that post. I have similar points of view. I don't like handouts. Ever since the end of the Depression, American citizens have been less independent and more dependent on the government. It WILL bankrupt up and Obama IS the wrong choice IMHO.

You're political views are yours. The thing is, your previous posts have been so contradictory that they've made no sense at all. At least that's how I see it as it's happened here.

My old history teacher used to tell us this:

"There are three things you can never talk about publicly. Religion, Politics, and money."

I've found that you can to a certain extent. You have to look at these topics at least semi-openminded or else you're going to get into an argument and possibly a fight. You can't go around and expect everybody to agree with you and you can't go around forcing your views on anybody.

[Tchocky]

I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve like all these other tools in America, like the gays for instance, who are playing the same BS game my race is playing with white America. I'm tired of being perceived as being a victim because of the color of my skin and I'm tired of everyone in America striving to be victims. Because in America those who go to the bottom get the power of the government's backing to elevate them. The quickest way to the top in America is to dive to the bottom, be a victim of some imaginary evil, and claim you need government assistance. It's bankrupting America and going to crash because white America is so pint up with self-guilt for something that happened a long time ago that they don't realize they are being taken advantage of.


Everybody knows that government assistance brings you right to the top table. It's just so generous.

[Red October1984]

Anyway, glad you have no problem sharing a bunk on my sub. Now, where'd those peanuts go....:oops:

{I still remember when gay was happy, today I'm gay, tomorrow I may be mad}

Yeah I'd share a bunk if there was no other way. Thing is, you won't be magically "finding" my peanuts. :03: I might magically find my knife. At that point, it becomes sexual assualt and I have the right to defend myself. :)

Gay meaning happy? That's never gonna happen again. :arrgh!:

[Stealhead]

I can actually understand that post. I have similar points of view.

At this point I am convinced that garren is just craving attention the things he has posted in this thread are so contradictory there is no way he actually believes what he is posting.

In several posts he says spouts very white supremacist statements then in another he claims to be black.

[Red October1984]

At this point I am convinced that garren is just craving attention the things he has posted in this thread are so contradictory there is no way he actually believes what he is posting.

In several posts he says spouts very white supremacist statements then in another he claims to be black.

That post did have some of my views...but I'm on board with your explanation.

That or he's just crazy. :03:

I'm just addressing each post as it comes. :88)

[Platapus]

His post WAS trolling. It was a personal attack on me.

What in my post indicated it was about you? Did I quote your post? :nope:

[garren]

At this point I am convinced that garren is just craving attention the things he has posted in this thread are so contradictory there is no way he actually believes what he is posting.

In several posts he says spouts very white supremacist statements then in another he claims to be black.


I never posted any white supremacist statements. Where did you get that hero?

Yes, I'm black and I'm not happy with what the bulk of my race is doing by playing the victim card, so you take that to mean I'm a white supremacist? You think I'm Clayton Bigsby or something?! "White power" LOL! :har:

[Stealhead]

That post did have some of my views...but I'm on board with your explanation.

That or he's just crazy. :03:

I'm just addressing each post as it comes. :88)


You'll notice that as his views have failed to gain support he has changed his tune either to validate himself or attempt to appease/counter someone.

August fully supported the idea that he was actually an Uber liberal and his response was to say "I voted for Romney but I wanted Rick Santorum to win". Which was an attempt to pander whether or not he understood Augusts meaning is anyone's guess.

The part I enjoy the most is how he first spouted for segregation and then claims to be black with a white wife that just flies in the face of logic. He thinks that races should be separate but apparently not himself.

I dont know maybe he rode in the Deathmobile(below) and wore no safety restraints and hit his head.

[Red October1984]

You'll notice that as his views have failed to gain support he has changed his tune either to validate himself or attempt to appease/counter someone.

August fully supported the idea that he was actually an Uber liberal and his response was to say "I voted for Romney but I wanted Rick Santorum to win". Which was an attempt to pander whether or not he understood Augusts meaning is anyone's guess.

The part I enjoy the most is how he first spouted for segregation and then claims to be black with a white wife that just flies in the face of logic. He thinks that races should be separate but apparently not himself.

I dont know maybe he rode in the Deathmobile(below) and wore no safety restraints and hit his head.

I think this is all hilarious. I attempted to cool him down and it seemed to work....but only cause I gave attention. :O:

People are crazy....

:smug:

[Stealhead]

I think this is all hilarious. I attempted to cool him down and it seemed to work....but only cause I gave attention. :O:

People are crazy....

:smug:

May 25th is a full moon so that might explain a lot of people tend to get more riled during full moons ask any law enforcement officer anywhere in the world during full moons things get busy.


Yeah I like how he says that he is black but is ashamed by the bulk of his race.I know many black people and none of them talk like that.And to act as if only "the bulk" of black people or other races do this "lazy victim" thing.There is plenty of white trash out there.But dont mistake that statement as meaning that all people that a poor are that way by laziness.Sure there are people that do this but they come in all shapes sizes and creeds.

Hatred is a reflection of your own self loathing.

[Sailor Steve]

His post WAS trolling. It was a personal attack on me. Him claiming I'm a troll by trolling himself because he doesn't like my difference of opinion about homosexuality. This forum is full of socialists apparently who see progress through immorality. Well, I'm not for that and I'm proud of my heritage and upbringing and I still have my faith in God. Not going to let a few atheists and gays convince me that they are good people when their souls are hopelessly lost. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that a pro-military site would have so many leftists and socialists on it. That I wasn't expecting but it just further convinces me that this world, especially the USA, is heading down the toilet at a record pace. Perhaps that's a good thing. Eventually it's got to hit rock bottom and crash. Maybe then people will start to believe again that there's a trend with all this gay stuff and Sodom and Gomorrah and Israel and Rome all having fallen from grace for entertaining mass debauchery of sin. Apparently the words of the Bible are even more accurate than I realized. It said this would happen.
I quoted your entire post to raise a point. I have quoted a particular old saying to a couple other members here more than once, and now it's your turn: It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Your posts have shown extreme contention and unwillingness to actually discuss the issue, but to demean in general whole groups of people. When a respected member mocks you for your arrogant tone, you accuse him of trolling. I wonder if you truly understand that label. I have yet to see anyone make fun of you because of your beliefs or feelings, yet pretty much everyone here has started doing so, including people who agree with you in principle. They are doing so because of your increasing insistence on proclaiming yourself right and everyone who disagrees as either evil or deluded. You might want to step back and consider your discussion techniques a little more carefully.

Personal attacks (and there haven't really been any to speak of) are not trolling. Trolling is arguing in a certain fashion just to get a rise out of people. No one has really trolled you, at least not too seriously, and I don't see that you are doing this either. What you are doing is arguing from passion. Perhaps a little too much passion, and not quite enough reason.

[garren]

You'll notice that as his views have failed to gain support he has changed his tune either to validate himself or attempt to appease/counter someone.

August fully supported the idea that he was actually an Uber liberal and his response was to say "I voted for Romney but I wanted Rick Santorum to win". Which was an attempt to pander whether or not he understood Augusts meaning is anyone's guess.

The part I enjoy the most is how he first spouted for segregation and then claims to be black with a white wife that just flies in the face of logic. He thinks that races should be separate but apparently not himself.

I dont know maybe he rode in the Deathmobile(below) and wore no safety restraints and hit his head.

I still believe in segregation. I haven't changed my tune in that regard. Yeah, I'm black and married to a white woman. Did white men never marry black women when the races were segregated? Did black men never marry white women when the races were segregated. WE STILL ARE SEGREGATED ANYWAYS even if government has mixed us altogether in the same schools, same prisons, etc. You think because I am for segregation that I'm anti-diverse? You don't know me at all and can't understand me apparently. You just see things as black and white whereas I'm am talking about all the gray matter in between. You think that because someone is for segregation that they can't be diverse in other ways? I just don't see what mixing people all in the same boat does but cause conflict more so than it ever did when people were segregated by law.

It was like I was saying before, when you mix women and men onboard ships it's going to result in sexual harassment claims, rape, consensual sex, prostitution, pimping, etc. The Pentagon swore to the American people that it would not be a problem. They said the same thing when they ended don't ask don't tell. But it IS a big problem. And someone else said that they will combat it with more people going to prison and setting harsher punishments. That doesn't work. If that was the case then nobody would have ever murdered anyone when the death penalty was still popular and there wasn't a 20 year waiting period to execute criminals. People still murdered and raped. I suppose this individual that's for harsher punishments is still onboard with the same old idea to put drug users in prison? Like that's really working out so well.

Yeah, I'll admit I have a different frame of mind than most of you. I guess you can say I'm just more evolved. Don't hate. You just can't accept me and my viewpoints because I'm ahead of my time. Let's talk crime. A man walks into a convenience store and robs it of exactly 1 candy bar and a gallon of milk. The owner of the store calls the cops and has the man arrested and charged with theft. I'm sure most of you think that's reasonable and a good thing for society. I don't. Here's why. That 1 candy bar cost $0.99 and that gallon of milk cost $3.99. He stole a whopping $4.98 from the store. Now that man goes to jail, gets booked and gets a paid-for attorney at the tax payers expense to fight for his defense in court. Just the cost of all this alone so far has reached the tens of thousands at tax payer expense. All over a $4.98 theft. Then he gets found guilty and goes to jail for a year which makes his grand total close to the million dollar mark or more before all is said and done. All for a petty $4.98 theft. His record is ruined after that. Now he can't get a job and has to resort to stealing again. It's a vicious cycle that never stops and it's just getting worse and worse as the economy buckles under it's own weight.

Why is America and other westernized countries so punishment-happy? It's like people get this sick thrill to see a man/woman punished to such an extreme level? I can understand deterrence to an extent but it's obviously not working and not deterring anything. Seems more logical for society to come to an agreement that petty theft like this should not be a big deal. It would be cheaper for store owners to mark up their loss and send it to the city and charge the tax payers the $4.98 to cover their loss vs the millions we spend on punishing people that really doesn't punish them but instead punishes the tax payers instead. Obviously the man was hungry and in need of food and milk. Just let it go folks. Stop being so anal about petty crime. Now for serious crime like murder and rape and the such then of course those types need to be put behind bars. And they should stay behind bars for the rest of their lives. No getting out. I'm not a big supporter of the death penalty because A) it doesn't deter people like I said before and B) I don't believe society should be in the business of playing God over life and death - even if that person chose to play god over someone else's life and murdered them. Life in prison without parole is good enough. Probably worse than death when you really think about it.

Anyways, just some things for you to think about. I do have a bit of a liberal in me as you can see but that's about the extent of it. I want society to save money and cut costs - that's the conservative in me. The liberal in me sees that some people in society are in need and don't need to be punished for stealing food or for being addicted to drugs or alcohol. Those people need help.

But I do think society works best with women in the home, men working jobs, black and whites and gays and heteros all segregated but working together. For instance, we don't follow the Arab way of life but we do business with them via trade. They want money and we want their oil. We work together but we are segregated in many ways from their way of life. I believe this is best because I believe they should have their way of life and it should be celebrated and respected that they are a different people. Nobodies better than anyone else but I acknowledge we are all different and best off in our own little worlds.

And I understand that many are not going to agree with me and my views and I really don't care. I don't agree with yours if it's all the same to you.

[garren]

I quoted your entire post to raise a point. I have quoted a particular old saying to a couple other members here more than once, and now it's your turn: It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

Your posts have shown extreme contention and unwillingness to actually discuss the issue, but to demean in general whole groups of people. When a respected member mocks you for your arrogant tone, you accuse him of trolling. I wonder if you truly understand that label. I have yet to see anyone make fun of you because of your beliefs or feelings, yet pretty much everyone here has started doing so, including people who agree with you in principle. They are doing so because of your increasing insistence on proclaiming yourself right and everyone who disagrees as either evil or deluded. You might want to step back and consider your discussion techniques a little more carefully.

Personal attacks (and there haven't really been any to speak of) are not trolling. Trolling is arguing in a certain fashion just to get a rise out of people. No one has really trolled you, at least not too seriously, and I don't see that you are doing this either. What you are doing is arguing from passion. Perhaps a little too much passion, and not quite enough reason.


Fair enough.

[Tribesman]

Wow this topic is still going:D
And still not a single standing arguement against the removal of the ban on gay boy scouts.
Come to think of it there hasn't been a single arguement that has remained standing over any potential future removal of the ban on gay scout leaders.

So instead we have a comedy show of a topic:yeah:

[Oberon]

You just can't accept me and my viewpoints because I'm ahead of my time.


I still believe in segregation. I haven't changed my tune in that regard.

But I do think society works best with women in the home,

:hmmm:

[HunterICX]

So instead we have a comedy show of a topic:yeah:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/21a1743adca8eead61ae935a51841eb3/tumblr_mgmcmqGET11r04hk1o1_500.jpg

HunterICX

[Cybermat47]

:hmmm:

':hmmm:' doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. I would have thought 'OMFG WTF BBQ?!' would be more appropriate, but perhaps that's just me :hmm2:

[Oberon]

':hmmm:' doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. I would have thought 'OMFG WTF BBQ?!' would be more appropriate, but perhaps that's just me :hmm2:

Well, British understatement and all that... :03:

[Skybird]

The posting counter ticking towards the 200 mark, I think it's time to add myself to the poster list and ask now: what is the big issue? I mean they probably also go to school together, or not?

In a sane world, one would not even lose a word about this. For the one side it is appropriate not to ask the other about "it". For the other it is appropriate not to boast with "it". And done you are! Life could be so simple. It's not about taxes. Not about money. Not about family. Not about laws and rights. Not about quotas. Not about anything of social or communal relevance.

[Oberon]

The posting counter ticking towards the 200 mark, I think it's time to add myself to the poster list and ask now: what is the big issue? I mean they probably also go to school together, or not?

In a sane world, one would not even lose a word about this. For the one side it is appropriate not to ask the other about "it". For the other it is appropriate not to boast with "it". And done you are! Life could be so simple. It's not about taxes. Not about money. Not about family. Not about laws and rights. Not about quotas. Not about anything of social or communal relevance.

I don't think that this thread is about that anymore, more about garren and his...interesting...beliefs that put him at odds with 95% of the posters in this thread.