German dialect in Texas is one of a kind, and dying out

[Gerald]

What knows Neal about this? :hmmm:

The first German settlers arrived in Texas over 150 years ago and successfully passed on their native language throughout the generations - until now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22490560

Note: 15 May 2013 Last updated at 00:02 GMT

[Skybird]

"Die Kuh ist über die Fence gejumpt."

:haha:

Pragmatism meets opportunism.

I recall an American tourist many years ago when I still worked in a shop, he wanted to have some alcoholic drinks (which were not offered in that shop), and asked me:

"Sie mich machen alcohol?"

[Stealhead]

I think that WWI and WWII are to blame for the disappearance of German being spoken in the United States more than anything it does not help that it generally speaking is expected in America that one assimilates which typically means the loss of ones "mother tongue" usually after only a few generations.

At one time German was the second most common language in the US.Which again is why I say that WWI and WWII are to blame for the disappearance.

For example some of my family originates from Germany from what I understand pre WWI it was very common to speak German publicly around other German speakers in German neighborhoods.WWI made this a bad idea so after that it would only be spoken at home and by WWII and even before the cultural model displayed by Germany was not exactly popular with all German-Americans so many choose not to speak German around strangers so as not to appear pro Nazi.

Many second and even first generation German Americans fought in WWI and this event would also change your identity and make you feel more strongly for your adopted nation.

If you look at most any ethnic group that has been in the US for a few generations the trend will be about the same.Very few Italian-Americans would be able to have a conversation with an Italian.Most Japanese Americans do not speak Japanese.Most people of Scandinavian decent can not speak Swedish,Norwegian or Danish.

Of course the United Sates is not unique in most nations your are expected to assimilate.

[nikimcbee]

Gehen Sie nach Pflugerville.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pflugerville,_Texas

[nikimcbee]

If you look at most any ethnic group that has been in the US for a few generations the trend will be about the same.Very few Italian-Americans would be able to have a conversation with an Italian.Most Japanese Americans do not speak Japanese.Most people of Scandinavian decent can not speak Swedish,Norwegian or Danish.


Then there's Mexico.:shifty:

[Jimbuna]

Then there's Mexico.:shifty:

That was my first thought on the matter :yep:

[Stealhead]

Mexico or Mexican-Americans? And if you are talking Mexican-Americans it depends on what group you are looking at and how long they have lived here if they and if they are long term or not.

[Sailor Steve]

If you look at most any ethnic group that has been in the US for a few generations the trend will be about the same.Very few Italian-Americans would be able to have a conversation with an Italian.Most Japanese Americans do not speak Japanese.Most people of Scandinavian decent can not speak Swedish,Norwegian or Danish.
In my part of the country we have a large number of Mexican emigrants, so we hear a lot of Spanish (or Mexican Spanish, which is much like American English). I once had a question about a Spanish word, so I naturally asked a coworker whose last name was Guttierez. I was shocked when he said "Hey, man, I'm third generation. I don't speak that crap."

:o

:doh:

:rotfl2:

[GoldenRivet]

There were a lot of German Settlers in Central and West, Texas way back.

You can still see it in the names of several towns:

http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Fred_IMG_0818.JPG/200px-Fred_IMG_0818.JPG



http://p2.la-img.com/567/21065/7178741_1_l.jpg

New Braunfels is even home to Schlitterbahn water park with obvious German heritage found in it's name.

Every September there are always a few friends invite me to some sort of authentic Oktoberfest party - which ends up being more of a small carnival with lots of different craft beers (not your college dorm octoberfest held in mid october where they spend hours sampling bud lite and miller lite lol)

yes, a lot of the German vanished after the entry into WW2...

names like Schmidt and Braun were changed to Smith or Brown.

Others kept the heritage alive, and some of those cities still have german folk festivals city wide as far as im aware.

its pretty neat if you get the chance to make it out to one.

[BrucePartington]

I lived and studied in Pittsburgh, PA, between 91 and 93. I really tried hard to loose the accent, (learning foreign languages is easy for me, btw). Having been a foreigner myself, my view is that because I loved being there, I really tried to blend in. How I did it was through try and properly speaking the language (down to local slang: "yinz" Pittsburghers buy "pop" instead of "soda"). The way I see it, language is how you achieve that, since it is the main means of interacting and being socially accepted. First generations start to forget their native language after a few years if they don't live in a community that speaks it.
If you like where you live and are not planning on going back, why try to keep the native language? Why even bother teaching it to second generation? Your descendants need to blend in and be accepted locally if they are to prosper.

Side note: I would be mad if one day I called some institution in my country and I had to "press 1" for the native language. You move to another country, you adapt and learn the language, not the other way around. You are a guest, not a host.

[vienna]

BrucePartington, eh? Does this mean you have plans?...

<O>

[Sailor Steve]

Already been done, back when he introduced himself. You need to get out more.

And stop stealing my material! :O:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=204112

[vienna]

Already been done, back when he introduced himself. You need to get out more.

And stop stealing my material! :O:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=204112


Sorry about that, Steve, I missed it the first time around...

And, if I'm going to steal (even if inadvertently), I should steal from the best... :03:

<O>

[Sailor Steve]

LOL.

I recognize the fact that those few of us who actually know the material might come to the same conclusions. I'm glad I'm not the only one. :sunny:

[Schroeder]

Why even bother teaching it to second generation? Your descendants need to blend in and be accepted locally if they are to prosper.



You can raise kids bilingual. They learn the language of their parents home country and the local one. That's usually not a problem, I've seen it being done here a few times. A foreign language is always a good thing to have and can even open you doors on the job market (and makes some holiday trips so much easier:D). So I'm all for teaching your kids your native language IF you teach them the local one as well.

Side note: I would be mad if one day I called some institution in my country and I had to "press 1" for the native language. You move to another country, you adapt and learn the language, not the other way around. You are a guest, not a host.Amen to that. I always get pissed when I see third generation people here who don't speak the language properly.... :shifty:

[Jimbuna]

You can raise kids bilingual. They learn the language of their parents home country and the local one. That's usually not a problem, I've seen it being done here a few times. A foreign language is always a good thing to have and can even open you doors on the job market (and makes some holiday trips so much easier:D). So I'm all for teaching your kids your native language IF you teach them the local one as well.

Amen to that. I always get pissed when I see third generation people here who don't speak the language properly.... :shifty:

A lot of merit in that :yep:

[vienna]

In my original hometown of San Francisco, the fading of the German language started even earlier than WW1/WW2. At the time of the Great Fire & Earthquake of 1906, a very substantial number of propertties, homes, and businesses were insured by insurance companies headquartered in Germany. After the devastaion, the German insurance companies quickly and quietly pulled uo stakes and fled oversea, not paying off claims from the people who had paid for the insurance. There developed from that point an animosity fueled further by the wars...

<O>

[Tribesman]

You can raise kids bilingual. They learn the language of their parents home country and the local one.
What if the local one happens to be bilingual or even multi lingual?

Amen to that. I always get pissed when I see third generation people here who don't speak the language properly.... :shifty:
The same can be said of natives.

[Onkel Neal]

There were a lot of German Settlers in Central and West, Texas way back.

You can still see it in the names of several towns:

http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Fred_IMG_0818.JPG/200px-Fred_IMG_0818.JPG



http://p2.la-img.com/567/21065/7178741_1_l.jpg

New Braunfels is even home to Schlitterbahn water park with obvious German heritage found in it's name.

Every September there are always a few friends invite me to some sort of authentic Oktoberfest party - which ends up being more of a small carnival with lots of different craft beers (not your college dorm octoberfest held in mid october where they spend hours sampling bud lite and miller lite lol)

yes, a lot of the German vanished after the entry into WW2...

names like Schmidt and Braun were changed to Smith or Brown.

Others kept the heritage alive, and some of those cities still have german folk festivals city wide as far as im aware.

its pretty neat if you get the chance to make it out to one.


Yep, lots of German descendants and German communities in Texas. Great people. :rock:

[WernherVonTrapp]

Chester W. Nimitz, a German Texan, was the son of Anna Josephine (Henke) and Chester Bernhard Nimitz. He was born 24 February 1885 in Fredericksburg, Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_W._Nimitz

[Schroeder]

What if the local one happens to be bilingual or even multi lingual?

There has been a test to determine how many languages kids could learn simultaneously. I think it where 4 different languages but i'm not sure about that number anymore.
So there should be no problem in learning one or two different languages besides the local one.

[Tribesman]

So there should be no problem in learning one or two different languages besides the local one.
What about practical problems?
Lots of Germans living out west speak English and Irish, but they still cannot understand someone from west Cork or Donegal in either language

[Schroeder]

What about practical problems?
Lots of Germans living out west speak English and Irish, but they still cannot understand someone from west Cork or Donegal in either language
Ok, what are you actually going after? Don't teach your kids several languages? Or am I missing something? I know some people who grew up bilingual and I don't see where the problem in that is.

[Tribesman]

Ok, what are you actually going after?
Learning the official local language/s doesn't mean you can speak with locals or understand them.
Take an indian doctor with perfect oxford English, stick him in Govan and he might as well have learnt Swahili for all the good it will do him with verbal communication.

[Schroeder]

Ah, ok, now I get it. But that doesn't change the fact that additional languages are generally a bonus.

[Tribesman]

But that doesn't change the fact that additional languages are generally a bonus.
I agree, there is a lot to be said for learning French and Spanish if you are moving to N. America.

[Dan D]

Very interesting video about the Texas German dialect. Thx for posting.

Must be cool to travel around in Texas and to speak German with some of the old folks.:shucks:

[Stealhead]

What really is an American?:hmmm:

Another interesting fact to take into consideration is that the United States has no federal law mandating a specific language be used.Obviously the de facto language is
English which is why most people who live in the US long term adapt and learn to speak fairly fluent English.This process doe snot happen over night though and illegal immigrants
whose employers use other native language speakers as foremen and supervisors so they have no requirement to understand English in order to gain employment.


Personally I do not really care where a person comes from so long as they learn to speak enough English to have a basic conversation so that they can interact with anyone like in an emergency.What happens if some Chinese man comes up to you and he needs your help but he cant speak any English of course you would most likely understand simply from body language and tone of voice if he was under duress and still be able to help him.Still it would be easier if the guy spoke at least basic English.




http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County_zpsc617674e.jpg (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/datsun260zyojimbo/media/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County_zpsc617674e.jpg.html)

[Jimbuna]

I'm surprised English isn't more prominent.

[Stealhead]

I'm surprised English isn't more prominent.

As an ancestry? It is interesting though The other groups common to the US continued immigrate for some time will English only came here in large numbers early on or stayed over from the colony.

It does distinguish between English and American though.My guess is English are pre 1776 and American well that one is confusing come to think of it.I notice that the English are mainly in New England which is why I assume that means colonials from England and Americans must be ones whose roots start in the US.

Of course its all relative because each person has two parents and is a combination of two families so what do they classify a Dutch-English? What I can say for certain is that we are all humans and we can share blood so long as it is the correct type so does it really matter?

[Dan D]

Ben Franklin on "Stupid, Swarthy Germans" (http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2008/02/ben-franklin-on.html)

Fun to read, if you consider the hostile stance towards immigrants to Germany in Germany nowadays. We need something like 5 million immigrants to Germany over the next 25 years to keep this brothel running. Who will pay [EDIT] the "retirement pensions for the old folks" otherwhise with a population shrinking dramatically? I don't know the reason::woot:, but people are hesitant to immigrate to Germany. It is a fun place here in Germany, the beautiful Rhine river and all that. Come to Germany. Germany needs you. I think we have an image problem.

[GoldenRivet]

Brothel???

why the hell didnt you say so sooner???


on my way :up:

[soopaman2]

So is it the Germans that make Texans sound so cool, or the diversifying into Texans, who are cool as well?

I am a Guido-wop-dago, guinea /American, we have a vested interest in what the Germans are conquering.

People seem to forget all about my ancestors, the Romans, conquering the world with ease...But it's always about the Germans!?!:06:

Ginzo power!!


I will punish you all with Tony Soprano, and Goodfellas lines,,

No no, don't try to stop me, damn you all for scorning Chris Columbus, the Italian hero.:arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

Eh?

[Red October1984]

The area where I live in Southeast Missouri is very German. Blonde hair blue eyes show up here and there. We've got German names though. Names starting with Van and what not... :03:

I'm part German, Italian, and English/Irish and IIRC I have descendents that were on the Mayflower. I have dark blonde hair and blue eyes. My hair used to be a yellow blonde but now it's closer to brown.

Still waiting to learn to speak German though. I want to really really badly.

Eh?

No...this is not the Canada thread. :O:

[Jimbuna]

Okay...that's a pity.

[Schroeder]

. Names starting with Van and what not.
Van is Dutch, not German.:hmph:
:O:
In German we have a "von" but in contrast to the Dutch "van" the German "von" indicates an aristocratic background of the person and is therefore pretty seldom.

[Jimbuna]

Van is Dutch, not German.:hmph:
:O:
In German we have a "von" but in contrast to the Dutch "van" the German "von" indicates an aristocratic background and is therefore pretty seldom.

Yep....Van meaning 'from' or 'of' I lived there a few years ago.

Eg: Von Rodenburg = from the red mountain

Don't you just love it :)

[Red October1984]

Yep....Van meaning 'from' or 'of' I lived there a few years ago.

Eg: Von Rodenburg = from the red mountain

Don't you just love it :)

Well...I don't want to give the story of my town because that would make it extremely easy to find me and I don't want you creepers finding me.

But originally, 3 or 4 families settled here from Germany. I won't say names because again, I don't want to be found. :03:

There's one family...a huge family with the Van in their name. There's no space in between van and the rest of the name. I'm not exactly sure but I know that we're all German and we all live here.

[Schroeder]

Then it must be a coincidence. The Dutch van and the German von are separate words that are separated by a space from the rest of the family name.

[Sailor Steve]

Then it must be a coincidence.
Not coincidence, but evolution. Names get changed for a variety of reasons. My family name was Brodfeld. The were part of the Saxon invasions in the post-Roman days. By the 10th century they were solidly English and the name had become Bradfield. It happens all the time.

The Canadian city of Vancouver is named for George Vancouver, the Royal Navy captain who charted that region. His family name is believed to have originally been either van Coevorden or van Couwen. Vancouver himself believed the former to be correct, but both names were originally two words.

[Stealhead]

Blonde hair blue eyes show up here and there.



:O:

Actually that is not a typically Germanic trait.

[Red October1984]

Actually that is not a typically Germanic trait.

No but these people have German ancestors.

[Stealhead]

That may be true but the fact that a person has blonde hair and blue eyes alone does not make them ethically German.That trait is possiable in any person that is at least partly Caucasian(White).

[Red October1984]

That may be true but the fact that a person has blonde hair and blue eyes alone does not make them ethically German.That trait is possiable in any person that is at least partly Caucasian(White).

I see...

Our little town has been around for a heck of a long time. Our church was built in 1856 and it still stands. The town was here well before that.

[August]

I think that ethnic map is somewhat misleading it's not like you go from Germany to Mexican or English to French etc just by crossing a county line. There is a lot more ethnic mixing than the map implies. Most Americans are mutts. That's why they call us the melting pot.

[Red October1984]

I think that ethnic map is somewhat misleading it's not like you go from Germany to Mexican or English to French etc just by crossing a county line. There is a lot more ethnic mixing than the map implies. Most Americans are mutts. That's why they call us the melting pot.

That's very true...

Like i said, I'm part German, Italian, English, and Irish I do believe. I know my Mom's side is German/Italian and Dad's side definitely has English and I'll have to check up on the Irish part.

I'm one of those Mutts. :oops: :D

[Schroeder]

Our little town has been around for a heck of a long time. Our church was built in 1856 and it still stands. The town was here well before that.
That proofs it again. For Europeans 200 miles is a long way to drive and for Americans 200 years is a long time.:D

The area of my town was first mentioned in 1347 (which is pretty young for the surrounding area which have settlements dating back more than a 1000 years).:cool:
(Which in turn is laughable for Egyptians and the like...)

[Penguin]

A pretty unique lingo mix. As you can see from the names of the houses, the Germans who settled Texas came from all German regions which have quite different and distinguishable dialects by themselves. So even without throwing Texan English into the mix, it created a unique blend - given that during the 19th century, we had no official standard German accent and the people have been much less mobile.

I have often heard 1st gen immigrants using the English sentence structure when speaking German after living some time overseas, so the mix-up happens pretty fast.

The scene from the bowling alley somehow represents the German-American mix the best: they go "kegeling" in a 9 pin bowling alley, though they play with American bowling balls. In Germany we use beautiful and of course superior balls without holes :O:.

Last but not least: the besterest and greatest Texan politician also has a German, slightly americanized last name - I am certainly not beating around the Bush, talking about the Kinkster. :yep:



Fun to read, if you consider the hostile stance towards immigrants to Germany in Germany nowadays. We need something like 5 million immigrants to Germany over the next 25 years to keep this brothel running. Who will pay [EDIT] the "retirement pensions for the old folks" otherwhise with a population shrinking dramatically? I don't know the reason::woot:, but people are hesitant to immigrate to Germany. It is a fun place here in Germany, the beautiful Rhine river and all that. Come to Germany. Germany needs you. I think we have an image problem.

I wouldn't mind having less people live in this overcrowded country - more chance to find a parking lot. :)