PDA

View Full Version : Free to play games take notice...


GoldenRivet
05-09-13, 03:40 PM
World of Warcraft has lost an average of 14,000 players per day for the past 90 days... a whopping 1.3 million customers leave the franchise since February. The developer blames the game's "subscription based pricing model" calling it a tough sell that is getting tougher every day.

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/world-warcraft-loses-1-3-million-players-three-233637952.html

Silent Hunter Series Devs... you guys read the news much?

Just asking :salute:

Julhelm
05-09-13, 03:43 PM
How does subscription based MMO have anything to do with free to play? They are completely different business models.

GoldenRivet
05-09-13, 03:47 PM
they are different...

in the way that a truck and an SUV are different.

you are still going to have to shell out money repeatedly if you want to get very far in SHO.

these developers are making this game to generate income.

to think otherwise is to swim in a sea of naivety

Julhelm
05-09-13, 04:01 PM
Purchasing in-apps with microtransactions is not at all the same as paying a fixed monthly subscription. It's like saying pay-per-view is just the same as subscription networks.

GoldenRivet
05-09-13, 04:33 PM
until you have about 90 or 100 microtransactions at a dollar a piece.:hmmm:

ive been playing SH3 for nearly a decade and it has yet to cost me more than the initial retail price.

it doesnt matter anyhow man... its going to be an arcade flash game anyhow.

Takeda Shingen
05-09-13, 04:46 PM
Well, I don't think that you can cite the declining WoW figures (most of which were from Asia) as being anything other than the inevitable decline of what has become a very dated MMO. There are still MMOs that are successful with the subscription model (Eve Online), and others that are successful with microtransactions (Guild Wars 2). What those MMOs do is offer something novel, unique and deep to the player. I just don't see SHO doing that.

Julhelm
05-09-13, 04:58 PM
Well there's no other submarine-themed free-to-play game on the market so I guess that's where SHO will offer something unique, novel and deep to the players.

If you already conclude that SHO 'will be an arcade flash game anyway', then quit complaining and get over it, since it's clearly not for you. Be content with SH3 or SH5 or whatever it is you play anyway. And if you absolutely hate the alternatives on the market, get together a couple guys with some of your money in a pot and hire a programmer to make the kind of game you want. It really does not have to be more difficult than that.

Vince82
05-09-13, 05:02 PM
you are still going to have to shell out money repeatedly if you want to get very far in SHO.


I don't agree. Could mean slower progress instead. It's bad business to try and make it very expensive to play.

Look I'm in the same boat as you because I would also like to see a SH6 done right, the difference is that I think SHO has a lot to offer and I welcome it. I probably won't be extremely interested in playing it, SHO is a game that's in the submarine gerne, but it's not really a subsim. It's grand strategy combined with some subsim elements, I think. And I expect it to be a bit arcady at least, but who knows.

desertstriker
05-09-13, 05:16 PM
after a point they will make it pay to continue your quest. it has to have something to generate money. the most common among games F2P premium memberships. and depending on what game "premium" equipment.
All in all there will probably be 2 currencies the one earned by doing things in game and the curancy you have to pay $$$$ for.

GoldenRivet
05-09-13, 05:25 PM
after a point they will make it pay to continue your quest. it has to have something to generate money. the most common among games F2P premium memberships. and depending on what game "premium" equipment.
All in all there will probably be 2 currencies the one earned by doing things in game and the curancy you have to pay $$$$ for.

true... and my experience tells me that the "currency" you earn in game is never really enough to get anything done of consequence

Takeda Shingen
05-09-13, 06:34 PM
When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time.

--Former EA CEO John Riccitiello

desertstriker
05-09-13, 08:11 PM
When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time.

--Former EA CEO John Riccitiello
now that is well put

GoldenRivet
05-09-13, 08:20 PM
When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time.

--Former EA CEO John Riccitiello

1 its a magazine... not a clip :nope:

2 im a 34 year old sim fan. the only "game" in my bag is super mario brothers which i play occasionally with a 7 year old.

havnt played a battlefield game in years

Takeda Shingen
05-09-13, 08:30 PM
1 its a magazine... not a clip :nope:

2 im a 34 year old sim fan. the only "game" in my bag is super mario brothers which i play occasionally with a 7 year old.

havnt played a battlefield game in years


And in your contempt you missed the fact that the statement completely backed up your assertion.

Takeda Shingen
05-09-13, 08:35 PM
now that is well put

Oh yeah. And the sad fact is that is isn't just scumbag EA (back-to-back Worst Company in America award winning, no less) that is doing this. It's commonplace, especially in the MMO market. It's to the point that even subscription games like EvE Online offer microtransactions where you can convert real money into ingame currency.

GoldenRivet
05-09-13, 09:07 PM
And in your contempt you missed the fact that the statement completely backed up your assertion.

I mean... It was a smart arsed remark... Really don't think it indicates I missed anything.

:-P

desertstriker
05-09-13, 09:39 PM
1 its a magazine... not a clip :nope:

for those who may get confused

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/945476_511374012244814_1924353510_n.jpg

but either way it doesn't matter the point is still the same. and as golden said it really was a smart arsed comment that makes a point

himmelreiter
05-10-13, 12:09 AM
I'm participating since a few months in the closed beta of SHO.
The shop model uses prestige points (PP) and credits (CR) to sell items. At his time (May 2013), the PP are balanced properly against the resources you need during combat (mostly fuel and torpedoes). It is possible to advance in the campaigns without using any CR you also gain from accomplished missions.

But - and here comes the payment model - if you like to have better items (e.g. better torpedoes, a type VII-C/41 boat instead of the standard VII-C) you have to invest CR. Speeding up installation time of technology can also be done with CR. For a bulk purchase the CR acquired from completed missions are definitely not enough. You have to stock up CR with real money.

Conclusion: I suppose I will be able to play SHO a long time with only occasional real money investment and accept lower quality torpedoes, long build time for next generation boats, long transfer times for technology. This comes true because SHO is not my main game. It is more the community and strategy game to be played a few hours the week.
There will be people buying the best of all for many CR, thus investing a bunch of real money from time to time.

For serious subsim game play we have all the other simulations.

vanjast
05-10-13, 12:45 AM
When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time.

--Former EA CEO John Riccitiello

I see he's a former CEO... I'm not surprised with a stupid business model like that... It might work with the stupid.. but not your average Joe and above, and even the stupid will wise up... and that will be that.

One wonders what they'll come up with next :nope:

Herr-Berbunch
05-10-13, 02:16 AM
One wonders what they'll come up with next :nope:

Whatever it is will no doubt cause customer contempt, the people who pay their wages and dividends. Great business model.

desertstriker
05-10-13, 02:44 AM
I see he's a former CEO... I'm not surprised with a stupid business model like that... It might work with the stupid.. but not your average Joe and above, and even the stupid will wise up... and that will be that.

One wonders what they'll come up with next :nope:
you do realize they never had you pay to reload your ammo stock right? EA has been one of the better companies if you ask me. loyal to the customer and cares quite a bit about their products.

as to what companies will come up with next well i am pretty sure there are only so many ways to take advantage of the consumer and get away with it. the most common being repackaging the same game with upgraded graphics upgraded this and that with minor differences here and there with something brand new. perfect example being call of duty and battlefield. heck everything we in subsim have joked and discussed about how SHO will make money are how other games do it and succeed at it but if what himmel said is true they are going with a facebook strategy/sim style where you pay to speed this or that up and you pay and get some moderate perks

Onkel Neal
05-10-13, 10:22 AM
they are different...

in the way that a truck and an SUV are different.

you are still going to have to shell out money repeatedly if you want to get very far in SHO.

these developers are making this game to generate income.

to think otherwise is to swim in a sea of naivety

Of course they are making this game for income. That's what we all do for our living. As for "you are still going to have to shell out money repeatedly if you want to get very far in SHO"; if what the devs tell is in fact the case, you can go just as far in SHO playing free as if you buy credits, it just takes longer.

Seeadler
05-10-13, 12:44 PM
In the previous beta-phase, I reached the level cap (35) only with earned prestige points, had build four VII subs, lost three of them by depthcharges and all my credits stayed untouched. I never needed credits for better technology or better torpedos, the old torpedoes for prestige points made the same job.

Now for the current beta-phase, BlueByte gave me 150.000.000 credits for the success in the previous beta-phase, so I can test the shop-system extensively and buy me the most expensive torpedoes ...the game is now almost too easy ... lost a sub now, no matter I can buy several new ones.:haha:

desertstriker
05-10-13, 01:11 PM
interesting dare i ask about type XIs or is ubi leaving us with only Type VIIs again:/\\!!? or is that their ace in the hole for money...:nope:

Seeadler
05-12-13, 09:46 AM
Last week was a live video chat with the developers and they said that they include Type IX, Type XIV and Type XXI but not in the beta phase

StarTrekMike
05-12-13, 09:36 PM
At this stage, I am yet to see anything that will make me even want to try SHO, aside from the rather glaring realism and immersion issues, I just don't like the sleazy nature of almost every F2P system I have ever tried and I don't ever intend to back off from that position despite how many times people say "it is the way things are going to be".

When I look at SHO, I see Microsoft flight, I see Mechwarrior online, I see every other F2P followup to a prestigious (and traditionally single player) franchise, Flight failed due to a sad attempt to retarget it's market, Mechwarrior online is but a hollow shell of what it once was and SHO (from what i Have been hearing from those who play it and footage and interviews) is again nothing but a hollow shell, it is Silent hunter but in name only.

I would rather pay $60 for a complete game experience with a single player mode and other non-online only features, making a game F2P will always mean compromises in gameplay so that the microtransaction and MMO elements fit.

Finally, I think it is important to note that there are few (if any) F2P games that really let you enjoy the same level of fun throughout the whole game while paying no real money into it (there are but a few exceptions), often the highest priced games I have played are F2P and if you don't pay, you get less and less of a experience in the end.

TheDarkWraith
05-13-13, 11:43 AM
In the end it's still software and a client end has to be installed on the end users system. That means it can still be hacked to do whatever you want it to do. I find it very tempting just to 'play' with it to remove the micro-transactions crap and make them free just to see if I could do it :hmmm: That's my only interest in SHO.

Seeadler
05-13-13, 02:13 PM
In the end it's still software and a client end has to be installed on the end users system.
Compared to WoT or other F2P games, SHO has no client to install. It's Action Script 3.0 code and runs through a Flash 9 browser plugin within the ActionScript Virtual Machine 2 on your computer. Basically it's a bunch of images, xml files and a compiled SHO.swf file stored in your browser cache. If you have the knowledge to use a swf decompiler you can investigate the SHO sourcecode from your cache ;)

TheDarkWraith
05-13-13, 03:21 PM
Compared to WoT or other F2P games, SHO has no client to install. It's Action Script 3.0 code and runs through a Flash 9 browser plugin within the ActionScript Virtual Machine 2 on your computer. Basically it's a bunch of images, xml files and a compiled SHO.swf file stored in your browser cache. If you have the knowledge to use a swf decompiler you can investigate the SHO sourcecode from your cache ;)

Thanks for the info :up: Time to hit up Amazon.com to see what I can find on the subjects :03:

B_O_L_T
05-13-13, 10:46 PM
Despite some ignorance in the forum to the contrary, f2p will continue to grow; f2p games are becoming the fastest growing sector of the market. Even once failing mmo's such as AOC, SWTOR, and lotro have seen revenues and their player base increase by as much as three fold after switching to f2p. Love it or loathe it, there is a very serious market for these games and a large proportion of gamers willing to invest serious money into those games that capture their attention.

EVERYONE in this forum should be hoping that SHO does well, with it potentially comes a new generation of gamers exposed to naval combat, it may well be naval combat lite, but it’s a start. This is a niche sector of the market, and has been since Gato, and sub hunt first appeared in the early 80’s. If there is to be continued interest in developing sub sims, we need games like SHO to help bring new generations of gamers into the fold, and with it an increased likely hood of something more serious being developed and released in future.

desertstriker
05-14-13, 12:21 AM
I think we all hope it does well we just know Ubi to well to expect anything good from them. We just have to adopt a wait and see attitude but overall some of the videos leave many of us scratching our heads.

As to our individual criticisms of F2P they are based in facts and many F2P players know of them. the micro transactions to get In Game Currency or pay to advance or pay to win models do turn away those that love the game but cant afford to pay.

xerxes313
05-19-13, 03:10 PM
Depends upon the F2P model really, in SWTOR it is possible to reach the highest level cap and obtain the best gear possible only paying 10 dollar just to to buy the expansion. So really. it is a F2P model where you dont have to buy anything.

The cash shop on that game is almost totally used for cosmetic items, its pay to look pretty, and that I approve of.

desertstriker
05-19-13, 03:18 PM
Depends upon the F2P model really, in SWTOR it is possible to reach the highest level cap and obtain the best gear possible only paying 10 dollar just to to buy the expansion. So really. it is a F2P model where you dont have to buy anything.

The cash shop on that game is almost totally used for cosmetic items, its pay to look pretty, and that I approve of.
its accually 20 if you are not a subscriber. but even in SWTOR you find that you level slowly without paying the subscription. and all F2P games are you don't have to pay anything to play it just makes your life easier if you do pay.