Technology timeline

[Father Goose]

I am currently in November 1942 in a "dead is dead" SH4 campaign using manual targeting for the first time. Although I am not satisfied with my targeting, I have managed to somehow sink 95,000 tons. I am currently "stuck" in a Tambor without a deck crew. I'm hoping a new sub down the road will revive my gun crew. If not, I'm going to have to go see the admiral. (I have read links regarding that issue but the gun was moved during a refit without my permission. Rats!)

What concerns me is the technological advances that may soon arise on both sides, and my ignorance of when they will become available. Although I have encountered a few IJN destroyers, I have been able to elude them so far. Playing "dead is dead" really raises the tension as those depth charges explode!

Future radar and sonar capabilities of the warships, merchants and aircraft would be nice to know. I have searched for this and have read discussions but have never seen a concise outline/summary.

Is a link, source, or brief summary of a "technology timeline" available for SH4?

[Redmane]

While I don't have much of an answer for you regarding future development of the sort you're asking about, I do think I know how you can get your deck gun crewable once again. This same bug has occured to me twice, each time when my boat was refitted. Like you, the aft deck gun was replaced by the game with a bow-mount, and the first time I didn't know how to fix it, so like you I made do. That career was also affected by the Terrible T problem and I got time warped back to mid '42, but I digress. In your TMO folder you will find a Documentation folder, and inside it is an optional mods folder with several optional mods for the...mod, heh:huh: Look for the TMO_Aft_deckgun mod, and copy it, then paste it into the mods folder along with all your others. You can activate it while you are in port and your deck gun can go back aft where it belongs, and will be crewable once again.

While I am not using the RSRDC mod yet, my mod-list is very nearly the same as yours, I activated the deckgun mod after the small patch, put OTC on top of that, and the ISE on last as you did. Everything works just fine, so you shouldn't have any issues caused by adding that mod to fix your deckgun problem.

EDIT: A thought came to mind shortly after I posted this. You may find some useful information pertaining to your question in the TMO manual Ducimus wrote for the mod, including new equipement for the American boats as well as useful info regarding increasing capabilities of the enemy ASW craft. Its in Pdf format, located in the documentation folder of the mod.

[Father Goose]

Look for the TMO_Aft_deckgun mod, and copy it, then paste it into the mods folder along with all your others. You can activate it while you are in port and your deck gun can go back aft where it belongs, and will be crewable once again.

The aft gun mod you noted appears to place all deck guns on all future submarines in the aft position too. I'm not sure I like that medicine. :O:

[Redmane]

Actually the aft deckgun mod doesn't force all the deckguns onto the aft deck, at least so far as I know. I have had the mod enabled for some time now, and jumped into a single mission using a Gato or a Balao, which by default have the fore deck gun on them, and that gun is properly placed and crewable. Also, given the date you mentioned in your career, you may get offered the Balao as a boat upgrade very soon. For some reason the game wants to make that boat available several months in advance of when it actually should be. I was offered it in late September of '42 but declined to take it as the timing wasn't correct for that class. I know it was a Balao because at first I accepted, and saw that the boat had a crewable fore deck gun. I reloaded a saved game and turned the boat down on the second go-round. At any rate, if you do have a problem later with a fore deck gun, which I think you won't, you can always disable that mod and it will resolve the issue, sort of the reverse process of enableing it to solve your current problem.

EDIT: In order to check my above claims in this post, I loaded up the game and began a new test career, a New Construction career starting in '42 in a Gato class boat. After getting into the office, I noticed that the boat model at the top of the crew roster showed an aft mounted deck gun, but the crew roster stated it was a fore deck mount, and had crew positions available. I started the first sea trial mission, and checked things out to be certain. Sure enough, the deck gun was a fore mount, and crewable, I even went so far as to place crew for it and had them man the weapon, so don't worry about not being able to do that should you get a new boat with a fore deck mount. I belive what the mod actually does is allow you to move it to the aft deck and still be able to crew it if you prefer that position for your deck gun.

[Father Goose]

Also, given the date you mentioned in your career, you may get offered the Balao as a boat upgrade very soon. For some reason the game wants to make that boat available several months in advance of when it actually should be.

You called that one! Returned to Midway December 1942 (132,000 tons) and was assigned a Balao.
I was a little disappointed to skip some other subs. However, fore deck gun and crew is all good.
Question: If I go back and turn down the Balao, will the next sub offered be different or will I always be offered the Balao? I want to get out of the Tambor or I might go ahead and activate that mod and stay in it.

I was concerned about the aft gun patch and did not activate it because it appeared to overwrite files on all the subs. I greatly appreciate your research. So your conclusion is the patch does not hinder the placement of the deck gun in all the subs. It just corrects the Tambor issue. Very good! :up:

Thank you. :salute:

[Redmane]

Father Goose, if you decide to turn down the Balao, you may not be offered a new boat again until the Tench class becomes available, though this may change if you decide to transfer. I'm not sure why but it seems that if you get a refit, the game then passes over the next class boat in the progression, hence the offer of the Balao rather than a Gato. I have yet to actually do a transfer in the game myself, but am considering it. I've just returned from a patrol. Its March 1st of '43. Its been 2 patrols since I turned down the Balao, and so far I've had no new offers of a new command. The new command offers usually come every 4th patrol in a current boat. The TMO manual states the Tench class will become available on the 1st of January in '45, and that's the only class left to show up following the Balao. So it looks like I have a lot of time to wait for the offer of a new command if I remain stationed at Pearl :o Also the Tench class is only available for commanders stationed at either Pearl or Midway. Having read that, I'm tempeted to transfer to Fremantle, since the Gato class becomes available there starting in June of '43. I'm not sure this will work, but perhaps being in the right place at the right time will catch me a break for a new boat myself.:hmmm:

The Balao is a fine boat. you will be able to max the 600' guage in a dive with no worries about crushing the boat, I know, I've done it in TMO. I watched a video made by someone playing in a Balao in TMO. He got into trouble with a destroyer and took heavy damage when he messed up with time compression, went into a uncontrolled decent due to drastic flooding, but the boat didn't crush until he had passed 900 feet! So taking the Balao is a fine option for you want to let the old Tambor go.

Regarding the aft deck gun mod, the only thing I haven't been able to check is what would happen if your boat (one equipped with a bow mount) got a refit. I did check what replacement guns were available for the Gato at the beginning of the New Construction Career, and while the only one there was identical to the one already on the boat, it was still a bow mount, not an aft mount, even though I had the patch enabled. As you know, with the Tambor (and the Gar, which I have) a refit moves the gun from aft to fore, and the only guns available are fore deck after that. The aft gun deck mod fixes that problem. What I don't know is whether any new equipment, like a 4" 50 cal upgrade to the gun would show up as available only for an aft mount with the mod enabled. However, disabling the mod will fix this, I'm fairly certain. And if by chance it did not, disableing all mods, including TMO, then re-enableing them, minus the aft deck gun mod, would fix any problem, as this would restore your mod set to the way it was before using the deck gun mod. However I'm sure it would be best to do this while in port, rather than making the change and loading a saved game with a gun on the boat that isn't in its default position, if you understand.

[Father Goose]

The Balao is a fine boat.

I understand. The Balao is probably too fine for me in 1942. I'm excited about having command of it but just wished it had been later in the war. It's December 1942 and I have already gone through the entire fleet of subs. It's okay, just not ideal. My favorite sub is the Sargo, maybe I should just start with that one next time under the Task Force Command.

I was hoping to go from the PORPOISE → SARGO → TAMBOR → GATO → BALAO. I'm trying to figure out what I could have done different to have a better chance at that progression. Any ideas? Not end patrol as often by just refueling? I started at Pearl Harbor, base of operations shifted to Midway. Maybe start or transfer somewhere else? :confused:

While I'm docked at Midway, I will activate the aft gun mod and take some R&R shore leave for the Happy New Year. :woot:

Thanks for your assistance and suggestions Redmane. :up:

[Redmane]

Well, you're not alone in haveing a bit of trouble seeing more than just 2 or 3 classes of boats come your way. One thing to keep in mind is the fact that the game requires that you spend at minimum 3 patrols in your starter boat in any given career. After that, the minimum is 4 patrols in a current boat before getting a shot at a different class. On top of that is your performance. I've found that the game is fairly forgiving in this aspect. You don't really need to sink fantastic amounts of tonnage to get to the top of the Sub Aces list, and being there pretty much guarantees you a new boat when one becomes available. As far as availability of the different classes, the TMO manual states what the dates should be for any given port that you want to be attached to. The Balao isn't supposed to become available at Pearl or Midway until the 5th of April in '43. Why this happens so early is a mystery to me. The other issue is that due to hard coding the modders can't do anything about, the game throws refits, rank advancement, and offers of new commands into the same bucket and doles them out in a rather random fashion. This is what Ducimus wrote in the manual about that:

A problem with Rank, Refits, and New commands:
The game seems to throw, rank, refits, and new commands, into the same bucket. If available, the game will always give you a new command or new rank, instead of a refit.

All this being said, I still think something is a bit off, since you and I both got refits to our boats in '42 at a point when, if I was playing the stock game and started with a Tambor or Gar, I always got a Gato. This reliably occured after my 3rd patrol in the starter boat, for which I always chose a Tambor or Gar. The funny thing is that during my current career my boat was refitted with the '42 conning tower after the 3rd patrol, and after the 4th patrol I was promoted and offered the Balao at the same moment. Go figure. You may have seen some discussion of this in other places on the forum, in particular what one has to do in order to get into a new boat at a given time. I was hoping for a Gato myself. I did see a post that Aanker made regarding this, and he asserted that completing objectives, and gaining reknown were key. Tonnage plays some role of course, as tonnage earns you reknown, but objectives completed also seems to be part of the equation. After reading his post, I decided that on any given patrol I would complete 3 primary objectives before returning to port. Prior to that I'd completed only the initial mission, then cruised about building my tonnage score. I made this decision just before getting the refit. In fact I tried to see if I could influence the game to change its decision to give me a refit, loaded up a saved game that had me at Midway refueling on my way back to Pearl, then went back out for another month and added 3 completed objectives to my list. When I got back to Pearl, I still got the refit rather than a new boat. But the very next patrol, I completed 3 objectives, and was promoted and offered the Balao when I got back! Hereafter I will start a new career when this one is played out, and always do extra objectives before returning from patrol and see what happens.

All this being said, I'm not sure its feasible to expect being able to run through as many classes of boats as would be ideal for you. There simply doesn't seem to be enough time in a career to accomplish something like that, since completeing a goal of 3 objectives and getting a decent tonnage score usually takes about 2 months on any given patrol, at least for me, that is.

EDIT: By the way, I have transfered to Freemantle to see if I can get offered a Gato class boat for my next command. The class becomes available there in June of '43. I have 2 more patrols I will need to complete, I think, before that opportunity comes about, as it's been 2 patrols since I turned down the Balao.

[Father Goose]

:hijacked:
I think I've hijacked my own thread!!! :har:

As Redmane and I wrap up the deck gun issue, I am hoping someone can shed some light on the technological advances I can expect from both sides as the war progresses, especially the IJN. I guess I can find out the hard way and watch as 5 or 6 destroyers turn and speed towards me. :o

Just to repeat:
Future radar and sonar capabilities of the warships, merchants and aircraft would be nice to know. I have searched for this and have read discussions but have never seen a concise outline/summary.

Is a link, source, or brief summary of a "technology timeline" available for SH4?

[Redmane]

Well, you may have seen this already in your travels about the web, and while it doesn't relate directly to the game, I thought you may find it helpful, and certainly an interesting read. This site also has a very complete listing of all the fleet boats during the war, and brief accounts of their histories as well.

http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/subtech.html

[Armistead]

:hijacked:
I think I've hijacked my own thread!!! :har:

As Redmane and I wrap up the deck gun issue, I am hoping someone can shed some light on the technological advances I can expect from both sides as the war progresses, especially the IJN. I guess I can find out the hard way and watch as 5 or 6 destroyers turn and speed towards me. :o

Just to repeat:
Future radar and sonar capabilities of the warships, merchants and aircraft would be nice to know. I have searched for this and have read discussions but have never seen a concise outline/summary.

Is a link, source, or brief summary of a "technology timeline" available for SH4?

Yes, advances are coming in sonar, radar and other things:D. This info is classifed. If we gave it to you, you could get captured and if they knew you knew, then they know we know, so the answer is no.

[Father Goose]

if they knew you knew, then they know we know, so the answer is no.

Sadly I understood that, and more concerning...it makes sense. :nope: