Flak any good ingame?

[BrucePartington]

My current boat is a type VIIc w/ 2 light flaks. IS it worth to upgrade to the heavy flak conning tower? Has anyone had any rewarding experience fighting back airplanes?
I have lived to see 1943, and air strikes are becoming ever more frequent and fierce. One of these days I may find myself under attack in a shalow (although I try to avoid shalows, since I do not have a death wish).

Incidentally mine is U-262, which in real life survived every mission, with a few exciting episodes in high sea, only to be "Bombed at Gotenhafen in December 1944. Stricken at Kiel on 2 April, 1945. Broken up in 1947." (quote from uboat dot net).
One of the emblems she had showed 2 aircraft "On 8 Aug 1943 U-262 shot down two attacking aircraft from the escort carrier USS Card." (uboat.net):D

"8 Aug 1943
Aircraft attack, aircraft shot down:American Avenger (VC-1 USN, pilot Lt (jg) A.H. Sallenger)
a.m., mid Atlantic south of Greenland, severe weather conditions: U-262 was awaiting refuelling from U-664 (http://uboat.net/boats/u664.htm) while U-760 (http://uboat.net/boats/u760.htm)U-760 was being supplied. At 10.11 hrs, an Avenger/Wildcat team from USS Card (http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/2487.html) located the boats and attacked U-262. The Wildcat strafed the boat while the Avenger tried to drop depth charges, but an AA hit in the bomb bay had damaged the release mechanism and put the radio out of commission. Making a second run, the Avenger was hit by flak again, setting a fuel tank in the starboard wing on fire. Two depth charges were launched manually, causing severe damage, but the pilot was forced to jettison a Fido homing torpedo and ditch the burning aircraft. The radioman went down with the Avenger, but the pilot and the gunner were picked up in the afternoon by USS Barry (http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/2239.html) after being spotted by other aircraft from the escort carrier. The Wildcat was also shot down by U-262 during another strafing run and crashed into the sea, killing its pilot. U-262 was forced to abort the patrol due to damage. (Sources: Franks/Zimmerman)
8 Aug 1943
Aircraft attack, aircraft shot down:American Wildcat (VC-1 USN, pilot Ens J.F. Sprague)
(Sources: Franks/Zimmerman)" (all quotes from uboat.net)

[GoldenRivet]

A uboat is a very poor AAA platform.

They did experience some successes against aircraft, however the number of uboats sunk by airplanes far exceeds the number of airplanes shot down by uboats. :03:

If you want to upgrade your boat you'd be wise to use the renown on some of the more passive defenses like bold decoys, anti sonar coatings etc.

If you choose to fight it out on the surface with planes... Especially in GWX you might experience a couple of successes, but for the most part you probably won't last long.

[flag4]

dive! dive! dive!

:Kaleun_Binocular:

[Vince82]

IS it worth to upgrade to the heavy flak conning tower? Has anyone had any rewarding experience fighting back airplanes?


I don't think it's worth to upgrade. Usually you should dive when your crew spot an aircraft. I think there's not much to gain in trying to shoot it, while at the same time you could lose your boat.

If my crew spots a aircraft at medium range, I'm staying at the surface gaining as much speed as possible and turning hard left or right if needed. It's too late to dive, so staying at the surface is better. But once the plane dropped it's bombs/DC's (and hopefully missed) I'm crashdiving before it turns around for a second attack.

[BrucePartington]

Nice, sounds great. Thanks Vince. And thank you all for your input.
Of course diving is always best. My concern is regarding a situation where I cannot dive because its too shallow. From time to time I feel tempted to raid a port. I miss SH2 Tieffenmesser showing available depth.

I don't think it's worth to upgrade. Usually you should dive when your crew spot an aircraft. I think there's not much to gain in trying to shoot it, while at the same time you could lose your boat.

If my crew spots a aircraft at medium range, I'm staying at the surface gaining as much speed as possible and turning hard left or right if needed. It's too late to dive, so staying at the surface is better. But once the plane dropped it's bombs/DC's (and hopefully missed) I'm crashdiving before it turns around for a second attack.

[RustySubmarine]

I don't take chances with aircraft, I get under as fast as I can, until the coast is clear. I have used my flak gun on small unarmed merchants, with quite good results, which usually takes about 200 rounds to destroy, thus saving a torpedo for something bigger, or an armed merchant, where the flak gun would be pretty useless against more heavy armament. I have never yet used my flak gun against an aircraft.

[Kelly621]

Originally posted by Flag4: dive! dive! dive!

You've got that right! Taking on a plane on the surface has never ended well for me....nor did it end well for most U-Boats caught on the surface during the war.

Kelly
621

[MantiBrutalis]

Sometimes when I get surprised by a plane and it is too close (or I am going too slow) to dive, I do engage it during its run (making evasive maneuvers and picking up as much speed as possible), then diving once too far to shoot.

So far, with GWX, the score is -

4 planes downed : 3 men dead, 2 interrupted patrols due to damage

[Raptor]

Even with GWX, you really only have a decent chance of downing a Swordfish. Against everything else, even if you have a flak-qualified gunner or Watch Officer, you are on the short end of a short stick, and it gets shorter fast as the war progresses.

An aircraft can fly with several holes in it. A U-boat only needs one hole in the pressure hull to make diving impossible.:wah:

Crash-dive and avoid the risks inherent in a confrontation.:up:

[HW3]

On the other hand, it can come in handy later in the war when you are leaving or entering base, and the bombers show up to try to spoil your day.:yep:

:subsim:

[desertstriker]

its only a good idea at the start of a patrol and a very bad idea in the middle of the ocean. of course i have found that you may be hitting the planes and it does very little damage so unless you want to edit a file giving you super AA powers but i would recommend against it because you may inadvertently give destroyers and planes super guns as well.

[flag4]

You've got that right! Taking on a plane on the surface has never ended well for me....nor did it end well for most U-Boats caught on the surface during the war.

Kelly
621

...you should read Ralph Kapitsky: Battle in the Caribbean and the Death of U 615.

its in the book Silent Hunters: German U Boat Commanders of WW2.

..talk about flak being any good....an unbelievable story of courage.:yep:

link: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Hunters-German-U-boat-Commanders/dp/1844150623/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367952791&sr=1-2&keywords=silent+hunters

[Kelly621]

Originally posted by Flag4...you should read Ralph Kapitsky: Battle in the Caribbean and the Death of U 615.

its in the book Silent Hunters: German U Boat Commanders of WW2.

Recently finished Operation Drumbeat and I am in the middle of Black May and Hitler's U-Boat War....will have a go at the book you mentioned once these are done....thanks for another good recommendation.

Kelly621

[flag4]

Recently finished Operation Drumbeat and I am in the middle of Black May and Hitler's U-Boat War....will have a go at the book you mentioned once these are done....thanks for another good recommendation.

Kelly621

...its one of my favourite essays/stories. the ferocity of the fight is breathtaking, on both sides. im a slow reader but I gulped it down in one sitting.

and its a pleasure..:up:

[Vince82]

U-flak is not realistic in silent hunter.

From the GWX manual:

The U-flak proved disappointing: the extra-large anti aircraft battery meant the U-boat had to carry 20 extra men and several tons of ammunition in order to operate them, which left little room for food, torpedoes, and sleeping space. This in turn limited these boats to employment in the Bay of Biscay, where Allied aircrews soon learned to coordinate their attacks, coming in from different directions in order to split the boat‘s fire.



I believe that the allies would radio for planes with rocket or surface forces aswell when a U-flak was spotted.

[Arnold]

U-flak is not realistic in silent hunter.

From the GWX manual:



I believe that the allies would radio for planes with rocket or surface forces aswell when a U-flak was spotted.
I agree. I tried to "stay up and fight" with U-flak in 1942, in Biscay Bay and lost the boat.

[desertstriker]

I think some of the issue with the airplanes is they have overpowered guns realistically the guns where for suppression while the plane got in close enough for missiles and bombs. Any damage done by the bullets was just bonus but normally easily repaired. Also the game doesn't simulate the loss of power the further a bullet goes and makes it the same damage that a bullet would do 1 mile away as a bullet 20 feet away.

[Luno]

I think it's worth mentioning that hindsight is always 20/20. Now we know that airplanes are too dangerous to deal with, but at that time, when you had no chance to respawn, people believed it was possible. Or at least, it seems that way considering the development of the U-flak platform.

If your goal is to last as long as possible, I would advise against a U-flak conning tower, but not everyone had/made the same choice. Taking a U-flak and dealing with the consequences could provide an interesting experience.

Secondly, there are times that you simply cannot go under, ie when loading externals using H.sie patch. You are stuck on the surface for a while while they load, and even if you try to put them back. In that case, running and shooting with the flak is your only chance (and by '44 B-24s had the whole Atlantic covered, so there's no place to hide either).

I've never gotten that far in the war, but I plan to take a U-flak at least once, just to try it out.

[BrucePartington]

Thank you all for your insight. I am addressing the issue of being caught on the surface without being able to submerge. The U-flak conning tower became available, for some renown of course, and for a moment I hesitated. In the end I decided for the "regular" tower and cannon. Based at Brest all I have to do is avoid the shallow just before entering the Bay of Biscay. In the Bay I always go Ahead Full. Whenever I have to crash dive, this way the boat gets under a lot faster.
Sometimes they show up in swarms. More than once I've seen them bump each other and crash. Serves them well for coming after my boat.

I think it's worth mentioning that hindsight is always 20/20. Now we know that airplanes are too dangerous to deal with, but at that time, when you had no chance to respawn, people believed it was possible. Or at least, it seems that way considering the development of the U-flak platform.

If your goal is to last as long as possible, I would advise against a U-flak conning tower, but not everyone had/made the same choice. Taking a U-flak and dealing with the consequences could provide an interesting experience.

Secondly, there are times that you simply cannot go under, ie when loading externals using H.sie patch. You are stuck on the surface for a while while they load, and even if you try to put them back. In that case, running and shooting with the flak is your only chance (and by '44 B-24s had the whole Atlantic covered, so there's no place to hide either).

I've never gotten that far in the war, but I plan to take a U-flak at least once, just to try it out.

[Vince82]

The problem with the U flak isn't that you might lose your boat, at least that's how I feel about it. The problem is that you might be able to rack up a lot of points undeserved.

After the first 2 months the British knew what was going on and changed there tactics, but this is not simulated in silent hunter. The range was very limited and the U-flak didn't have the full torpedo loadout.

It was used for two things really
1 trap aircraft
2 protect other u-boats while transiting (the gulf of Biskay).


It wasn't an attack boat.

[sharkbit]

We do have the benefit of hindsight as well as not having to follow standing orders. There were many standing orders that came out throughout the war from Bdu. Many during 1943 and 1944 concerned whether to dive in the face of aircraft or stay surfaced and fight it out. I'd bet many a sub went down following orders.

It is pretty easy for us just to hit the C key upon spotting a aircraft and heading under.

For any die hards out there, the Just Folllow Orders Mod has many of those standing orders incorporated.

I've gotten tired of spotting aircraft at the same safe distance all of the time so I've started experimenting with a random dice roll when I get the aircraft sighted message. I roll two dice and multiply the amount by 15 seconds. That is how long I have to stay on the surface before I can dive. I have some dice roll modifiers that will change the roll(year, night, picked up a radar warning, etc.). Still experimenting and tweaking but it seems to work pretty well. It seems to simulate aircraft attacking out of the sun, from behind clouds, or a daydreaming lookout fairly well.

Watching a Sunderland bore down on you for a couple of minutes with your finger hovering over the "C" key makes for some pretty tense waiting. It is even worse if it is a Mosquito-those things move quick! :o

Haven't been sunk yet, but I've suffered some damage but have been able to continue on. :arrgh!:

:)

[Vince82]

I've gotten tired of spotting aircraft at the same safe distance all of the time so I've started experimenting with a random dice roll when I get the aircraft sighted message. I roll two dice and multiply the amount by 15 seconds. That is how long I have to stay on the surface before I can dive. I have some dice roll modifiers that will change the roll(year, night, picked up a radar warning, etc.). Still experimenting and tweaking but it seems to work pretty well. It seems to simulate aircraft attacking out of the sun, from behind clouds, or a daydreaming lookout fairly well.

Watching a Sunderland bore down on you for a couple of minutes with your finger hovering over the "C" key makes for some pretty tense waiting. It is even worse if it is a Mosquito-those things move quick! :o

Haven't been sunk yet, but I've suffered some damage but have been able to continue on. :arrgh!:

:)

I see where this is coming form... :yeah:, Sharkbit.