Boeing 747 Cargo Plane Crashes in Afghanistan

[Jimbuna]

How terribly tragic :nope:


A National Air Cargo Boeing 747-400 freighter on behalf of US Mobility Command, registration N949CA performing cargo flight N8-102 from Bagram (Afghanistan) to Dubai Al Maktoum (United Arab Emirates) with 7 crew and cargo consisting of 5 military vehicles, has crashed shortly after takeoff from Bagram Air Base's runway 03 at 15:30L (11:00Z) and erupted into flames near the end of the runway within the perimeter of the Air Base. All 7 crew are reported perished in the crash.


http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4

[eddie]

Very tragic event. Sure will be glad when we finally leave that place.

May they rest in peace.

[Oberon]

This vid claims to be of the crash, although the date is off but the rest does look fairly geniune:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518

Very nasty indeed. RIP.

[AVGWarhawk]

OMG...the video. I can only imagine what the crew was thinking.

[HundertzehnGustav]

all i thoought was "the angle!!! pushhhhh the nose down!!!"

[Jimbuna]

Good grief!! :o

[Stealhead]

OMG...the video. I can only imagine what the crew was thinking.


The pilots at least where most likely busy trying to regain control of the aircraft.A skilled pilot must be able to focus on problem solving and try to regain control of the aircraft in that process they do not really have much time to think of anything else.



My guess judging from the footage is that they suffered a power failure in the engines or that the plane was over loaded or the cargo was not properly positioned.The latter even if the engines can handle the load can still be fatal as it makes the aircraft highly unstable.

A C-5 crashed shortly after take off from Ramestin AB Germany back in 1990 it had been overloaded but not by much and was simply unable to gain altitude.This problem can be exacerbated by a shorter runway which at the time in Germany the runway was about 2,000 ft shorter than it is now.

Load masters have a very important job and one that most people outside of certain parts of the military and cargo industry know little about.

The footage must be from an MP patrolling the base perimeter it is a worked dog team you can hear the dog yelp for some reason sensed the gravity if the situation.

I was at Bagram for a good while the take off angle is not that unusual for a large aircraft at least at the start of the footage.I notice that the plane tilts to its port side that to me implies that it was having trouble lifting all of a sudden if it had a heavy load and suddenly lost power on one side even just a small amount would become a serious situation very quickly.

At least the plane crashed in a field and not over the base or a populated area.


It is kind of weird seeing that footage the suddenness of it I used to have dreams sometimes when I was in the Air Force where a plane would crash very suddenly and unexpectedly right in front of me.Guess it was because I worked around aircraft everyday.

[Oberon]

or the cargo was not properly positioned.The latter even if the engines can handle the load can still be fatal as it makes the aircraft highly unstable.

Latest that I've heard is that it was carrying five twelve ton MRAPs and the load shifted. At such a critical point in flight, there was nothing they could have done. Like you say, goes to show the importance of the load master.

[CaptainMattJ.]

I wonder if they can determine the exact cause of the cargo shifting after such a violent crash. My guess is improper securing which falls completely on the load masters, but otherwise it would be material failure, for which the load master is not to blame.

in any case when i saw that video a couple hours ago i couldnt believe it. Such a surreal sight to watch a large aircraft do that, and then the unimaginable horror the crew mustve faced right before impact.

Horrible. :nope:

[Stealhead]

They can indeed.You can test this your self simply make a paper airplane and place a paperclip or tape a coin in a funny place it will display very poor flight characteristics.If the paper clip is the correct place it will fly well.The same applies to any aircraft if the load inside is positioned in such a manner that it effects the center of gravity that aircraft will become unstable very quickly even if the load that moved or was placed poorly from the start is well within the weight limits of the design.You can do the same thing with one of those balsa wood gliders just place that nose weight else where.Now Imagine that you changed the nose weight to a completely different position as the glider was flaying essentially that is what happened to that 747-400.At least the entire thing took only a few seconds so they did not have long to realize their fate.

Of course they will have the black boxes and such but just from my relative lay knowledge in aeronautics I know that a massive load shift in flight or a load positioned improperly in the first place is very bad news.We had to follow very strict guidelines when prepping equipment for pallet loading and you have people whose job it is to prep pallets and load them and the load master would be the one that orders where items go they would also make sure that weights where correct and that cargo is secured.Load masters fly with the plane and they will know the design well in the respect of how to maintain the center of gravity.

I am going to guess that a civilian cargo company might over work their load masters it would not surprise me.

A load shift would mean a change from controllable flight to an unrecoverable situation in seconds in any aircraft you will either die or bail out if possible in most civilian aircraft escaping is not an option.Even at 26,000 feet if the center of gravity was drastically changed the plane would still fall from the sky.

[Mork_417]

That's a terrible sight. RIP

[Hottentot]

News like these always stop me for a moment, and no matter if it's a car crash, plane going down or a terrorist bombing a public place, the reason is always the same: the realization that there are times when the life just deals you the death card and there is little you can do to prepare for it or prevent it.

I can never help for a moment wondering, what each of these people was thinking in that morning. Eat breakfast, go to work, chat with the friends, think what you're going to buy from the grocery store in the evening and make some plans for the weekend and then suddenly BAM! You're dead. End of the line. Period. No second chances. You're gone.

Freaky. :o

[Stealhead]

Everyone leaves this world in one way or another.It is sort of ironic that something like this makes us think about mortality maybe because in an accident death is clear and in your face.The reality is that death is always right around the corner and you never know when your card is gonna get dealt.Might as well enjoy the time you have because you do not know how long you have.Some people live only minutes and others live past 100 years but you never know what your fate is besides the fact that you will die at some point. Some people wittingly choose their fate but most do not at least not in a direct fashion anyway.

[Hottentot]

Everyone leaves this world in one way or another.

True. The point I'm getting at is that it's quite different to die, say, after a prolonged disease or of "old age" so to speak than to be still perfectly fit and healthy, waking up in the morning and having no idea that you're not going to see the sunrise tomorrow.

It's the feeling of randomness that always stops me in these news.

[Wolferz]

WHO HIT THAT AUTO LANDING SWITCH?!?!!!

[Stealhead]

True. The point I'm getting at is that it's quite different to die, say, after a prolonged disease or of "old age" so to speak than to be still perfectly fit and healthy, waking up in the morning and having no idea that you're not going to see the sunrise tomorrow.

It's the feeling of randomness that always stops me in these news.


The point of my post was to express that you do not know if you will see the next sunrise so you might as well enjoy your life and not allow petty things to hinder you.Excluding of course the person who does have some terminal illness that has a general idea that they will pass way.

I felt that my original post expressed this.

No worries we where saying the same thing just using different words.

[Wolferz]

The point of my post was to express that you do not know if you will see the next sunrise so you might as well enjoy your life and not allow petty things to hinder you.Excluding of course the person who does have some terminal illness that has a general idea that they will pass way.

I felt that my original post expressed this.

No worries we where saying the same thing just using different words.

True words for sure.:up: That's why I'm living each and every minute as though it were my last because for me, it could very well be. But that can be said about every living, breathing entity on the planet.

Most people don't think about mortality until they come close to it.
Once you come face to face with it and accept it as inevitable, then you can truly start to live.:hmmm: Those poor fellows in that plane were fortunate in the sense that it was one big rush before the lights went out. My main fear about death is lingering on the edge for a prolonged period of time and not being able to get up and do things.

[Nippelspanner]

WHO HIT THAT AUTO LANDING SWITCH?!?!!!

Congratulations, you hereby earned the ******* of the month award by trying to be oh-so-funny about a tragedy that ended 7 lives.

You should be very proud, really...

[JU_88]

Horrible video to watch :nope:
Looking at it, it appears his climb was much too steep, he loses all air speed and stalls horribly. Make sense what they are already suggesting; that one or more of those vehicles it was carrying became unsecured and rolled aft during take off, that would account for the tail being pushed down and the nose up.
That is one of the situtations that terrifies me most about flying in large airliners, if it stalls under 4000 feet or so and you're done for. :(

[Schroeder]

That is one of the situtations that terrifies me most about flying in large airliners, if it stalls under 4000 feet or so and you're done for. :(
If it stalls because of unsecured cargo then you are done for at any hight.:-?

From what I hear you can't actually stall one of those aircraft on purpose. The computers won't allow you to get to the maximum angle of attack (people with more knowledge might confirm/correct me).

[Jimbuna]

That is one of the situtations that terrifies me most about flying in large airliners, if it stalls under 4000 feet or so and you're done for. :(

Don't go saying that, I'm flying in a few weeks time :o

[JU_88]

:-?

From what I hear you can't actually stall one of those aircraft on purpose. The computers won't allow you to get to the maximum angle of attack (people with more knowledge might confirm/correct me).

Not sure about that one, but in most cases when there is a 'stall' something (usually mechanically) has to go badly wrong first so neither pilot or computer can do much to prevent it.
e.g jammed elevator, engine faliure or anything else where the end result is that airspeed gets reduced to the point where the aircraft is effectivley 'dead weight'.

[Julhelm]

Actually you can stall even FBW aircraft which is what happened to that Air France flight that went down in the South Atlantic a few years ago.

[JU_88]

Don't go saying that, I'm flying in a few weeks time :o

The odds of dying in a plane crash are supposedly about 1 in 22.8 Million, where as its estimated that someone dies in a car accident every 12 minutes ...
So I think you should be fine Jim :up:

[Oberon]

Don't go saying that, I'm flying in a few weeks time :o

Funny you should say that, they've booked me to pilot a flight to Turkey around then.... :hmmm::haha:

[Jimbuna]

The odds of dying in a plane crash are supposedly about 1 in 22.8 Million, where as its estimated that someone dies in a car accident every 12 minutes ...
So I think you should be fine Jim :up:

Aye but more people survive car crashes than those involved in plane crashes :)

Funny you should say that, they've booked me to pilot a flight to Turkey around then.... :hmmm::haha:

In that case I'll have the seat that's on top of the black box :)

[Herr-Berbunch]

Actually you can stall even FBW aircraft which is what happened to that Air France flight that went down in the South Atlantic a few years ago.

That's what you get when you think you know better than the aircraft systems. Unfortunately that wasn't the only crew to either fight with each other (controls, not literally), or to keep pulling back despite the stall warnings.

The odds of dying in a plane crash are supposedly about 1 in 22.8 Million, where as its estimated that someone dies in a car accident every 12 minutes ...
So I think you should be fine Jim :up:

Jim is now setting off to get to the airport on foot. :haha:

[Jimbuna]

Jim is now setting off to get to the airport on foot. :haha:

Tis 16 miles...would kill me now :)

[Dowly]

Tis 16 miles...would kill me now :)

Better ease off the spam and start exercising then. :yep:

[Synthfg]

Not sure about that one, but in most cases when there is a 'stall' something (usually mechanically) has to go badly wrong first so neither pilot or computer can do much to prevent it.
e.g jammed elevator, engine faliure or anything else where the end result is that airspeed gets reduced to the point where the aircraft is effectivley 'dead weight'.

That one looks like the cargo has shifted down to the tail, guessing something wasn't properly secured and with the steep climb out to avoid possible ground fire, it went crashing back, taking other stuff with it.

The sudden shift in weight made the stall inevitable and recovery impossible

[Jimbuna]

Better ease off the spam and start exercising then. :yep:

Not feeling the love here.