Sir Winston Churchill to feature on new banknote

[Jimbuna]

Not before time...this honour should have been given years ago.


Sir Winston Churchill will feature on the new design of a banknote which will enter circulation in 2016, the Bank of England has announced.
The wartime leader's image is planned to feature on the reverse of the new £5 note, together with one of his most celebrated quotations.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22306707

[Herr-Berbunch]

. . . together with one of his most celebrated quotations.

Please let it be the one to Nancy Astor OR the one to Bessie Braddock. :yeah:

Although I feel I'm going to be very disappointed on this.

[Dowly]

That's good. :yep:

[Skybird]

Better service would be to replace the toy "money" there is with actual value money backed by gold, silver, or whatever it is. Banknotes today are no storage checks for value stored by the banks, but are uncovered debt bonds. Who cares whether they are red, yellow or green?

One of the reasons why so many people do not run around in panic and storm the banks is that people just do not understand what money really is. The states have destroyed real money, and replaced it with a complex system allowing political actors to rob and steal both from the present (taxes) and future (debts).

Guys, do yourself a favour and read here (LINK) (http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money. pdf)

Roughly 100 pages on ly, and fast to read. But best book there is on the real nature of money, and how the state had perverted it - and how this has crippled the modern world.

And it is free to download, legal, no costs.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5861/64451191.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/64451191.jpg/)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1438/24389660.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/24389660.jpg/)

[AndyJWest]

I thought that the gold market had been cornered by shape-shifting illuminati Trotskyists out to cause the collapse of civilisation and the return of the Corn Laws? Or have you changed your mind: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203834&highlight=gold

[Skybird]

An old girlfriend of mine being here and having read over my shoulder just told me her nice summary of what the difference is between real (value) money and the toilet paper we have today.

Imagine a little kid playing with a small goldnugget it grabs with its fist. Then father state comes and takes the nugget in his own hand and makes a fist around it and holds the fist to the kid. And kid points at the fist with a finger, and the fist opens and there it is , there is the gold nugget.

Then father states says: "Why playing with one hand only when you can play with so many more and it costs you nothing?", and he lets the gold nugget disappear in one hidden pocket, and then shows the kid the original hand turned into a fist and the other seven hands his many octopus arms have, and there the eight fists are, and the kid points at all of them.

But all eight fists still are empty, not a single gold nugget nowhere.

The game is not about the number of empty fists. It should be about the number of nuggets. But that has been forgotten.

[Skybird]

I thought that the gold market had been cornered by shape-shifting illuminati Trotskyists out to cause the collapse of civilisation and the return of the Corn Laws? Or have you changed your mind: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203834&highlight=gold
The one story does not contradict the other. And your pathetic rethoric will not provide you with a valid cause.

[AndyJWest]

The only 'pathetic rhetoric' here is yours, Skybird. You babble on endlessly (in multiple threads, even when they are on other topics entirely) about fiat money, and about how gold is somehow a 'real' measure of value, and then post a thread claiming that the price is being manipulated. Both cannot be true.

[vienna]

There's one big flaw about the 'value' of gold: if there were a catastrophe and I had the only food stock in the entire area, how much do you think your gold is worth? How much gold would you pay me for a can of bean?...

<O>

[AndyJWest]

Yup - gold is about the least useful thing to stock up on if you are expecting economic collapse. It looks pretty, but has next-to-no desirable attributes otherwise, unless you are manufacturing electronic goods, or windows for spacecraft - not exactly priorities in such a context. I suppose it might be useful as something you put in a sock to act as a weapon if you want to rob Vienna of his beans... :03:

[Oberon]

Alcohol, cigarettes and coffee would be good bargaining tools in the immediate aftermath, following that, food, water, weapons, people.

[vienna]

Yup - gold is about the least useful thing to stock up on if you are expecting economic collapse. It looks pretty, but has next-to-no desirable attributes otherwise, unless you are manufacturing electronic goods, or windows for spacecraft - not exactly priorities in such a context. I suppose it might be useful as something you put in a sock to act as a weapon if you want to rob Vienna of his beans... :03:


Didn't I mention the stockpile of weapons I'll have also? Yes, the only way you'l get those beans is out of my cold, dead hands!!...

<O>

[STEED]

Meanwhile in a galaxy not very far away, trust me its not...


JIMBO WARS
Episode 9

The Dark one is coming!

Jimbo and his merry band have rec'd word the dark one is coming, and he will print money faster than you can wipe your backside after being hit by the Monty zoomers. The crazy old dimwit has almost fallen and the winds blast in the stench of the dark one who obeys his evil masters in the empire of Goldman Sachs.

It is a dark time on planet UK, only Jimbo and his merry men stand in the way of the dark one who will destroy planet UK for ever. The time has come to kick butt and down another pint of best with a packet of pork scratchings and take on the new head of the BoE...

[Catfish]

Why not Thatcher ?

[AndyJWest]

Why not Thatcher ?

Because of the negative opinions of a significant proportion of the British population, for a start.

[BossMark]

Why not Thatcher ?

What? you want me to burn every new fiver I got :haha:

[AndyJWest]

Didn't I mention the stockpile of weapons I'll have also? Yes, the only way you'l get those beans is out of my cold, dead hands!!...

<O>

Unless of course I've cornered the can-opener market. :O:

[vienna]

Unless of course I've cornered the can-opener market. :O:


Er, um,... say, you want to, maybe, negotiate?... :D

<O>

[Tribesman]

The only 'pathetic rhetoric' here is yours, Skybird. You babble on endlessly (in multiple threads, even when they are on other topics entirely) about fiat money, and about how gold is somehow a 'real' measure of value, and then post a thread claiming that the price is being manipulated. Both cannot be true.
Get used to it Andy, the stronger Skybird holds an opinion on something the more likely it is that it will directly contradicted by Skybird holding a strong opinion on something.
Its almost like every time he reads something new it becomes his new ultimate truth.

[STEED]

What? you want me to burn every new fiver I got :haha:

Why not its worthless.

[Catfish]

Why not Thatcher ?
Because of the negative opinions of a significant proportion of the British population, for a start.

I hope i will not have to to explain i make a joke everytime i try to make one :D

[soopaman2]

I'll trade you a Washington and Lincoln for one. Fair trade, one Hero for two!:D

Good for you guys across the pond, years too late, but good.

That cigar chomping (expletive) wasn't so bad.:O: ( I always giggle at that scene in Das Boot, couldn't help myself:haha:)

[Oberon]

Why not its worthless.

I'll have all your fivers then. :yep:

[Skybird]

There's one big flaw about the 'value' of gold: if there were a catastrophe and I had the only food stock in the entire area, how much do you think your gold is worth? How much gold would you pay me for a can of bean?...

<O>
Money is a normal commodity of the market, it gets traded and valued the same way like any other item that gets traded between interested people. Items used for money become that because they have a deep market penetration, that means they are available in sufficient quantity to serve in the function of a currency. Like the value of any good or item for sale gets determined by its relative value to other items, it is the same way with a functioning currency. A refrigerator may be worth ten pairs of shoes, for example. A pair of shoes may be worth 5 gold coins. That means if you do not want to carry your refrigerator to a deal in order to buy ten pairs of shoes for the coming 20 years, it might be more clever you trade your refrigerator for 50 gold coins, spend 5 on one pair of shoes, and keep the remaining 45 coins. The value of all three items - refrigerator, shoes, gold coins of a certain weight (in gold content) is negotiated by sellers and buyers on the market. The value of the currency thus is also traded by sellers and buyers on the market.

But that only is because a gold coin is being agreed on by sellers and buyers to have a certain amount of value by itself. And that is what differs this real value money from FIAT money we have today. FIAT money is not negotiated in its a value by the markets, it also is no value in itself, it is no trading item in itslef, no trading good (debts have been made a trading good instead, and a trading good of even more than just one degree of complexity...).

Where you have a gold standards (or silver standard) backing a currency, a banknote just is a storage check. You can go to a bank and get real gold for it. But there are no more storage checks in circulation thna there is real valuable items that the represent. If you have four suitcases stored, you get four checks. Not five or six or seven - four. And these four are the only ones you can trade with, which serves as proxies for carrying around the real precious metal (gold bars are heavy...).

But with FIAt money, banknotes are debt bonds, and they refer to items being owed that are non-existent. That is an invention by states who wanted to spend more money than they had in real wealth as represented in their gold treasury. They wnated to form "money" from, nothing, and so they abandoned the gold stnadrad, thinking it is sufficient to just take a leaf of paper, print "money" and a number on it, and then you are a rich man. But it isn'T. The fallacy only functions a slong as nobody starts to worry, and wnats the bank to give him in real value wehat his papers seem to indicate his his: but he only has a debt bond, and the value owed does not exist in real asset, or better, only a minor amount of circulating debt bonds(=banknotes) are covered by real values and assets). When people realise that, they will storm the bakl and to be one of the happy few first getting something for their paper - and the rest after them will get nothing. When that gets understood, that will be the beginning of the end of the financial system as we know it today. Collapse will be the inevitable result. Total, complete collapse. It's all a snowball system only, and the final riot will bcome the nastier the more money gets headlessly printed by the ECB and the Fed and all the other criminal irresponsible smartheads with their shiny university degrees and unscrupulous ambitions for power.

In your scenario, doomsday all over the world, maybe gold will not be worth much anymore. But I promise you one thing - for gold you will be able to trade some food or a safe passage somewhere for much longer time, then with state bonds banknotes or cheap steel coins representing FIAT money only.

So, in your doomsday scenario, the gold standard money is an object of trade, an item that gets traded on and by the market, and the market decides (request and availability) whether one gold coin is worth more, equal or less than a leaf of bread.

FIAt money is worth nothing in that same scenario, never. ;)

[Skybird]

Alcohol, cigarettes and coffee would be good bargaining tools in the immediate aftermath, following that, food, water, weapons, people.
Yes - the market situation, may it be war, may it be in prison, as well as the availability of possible currency items (cigarettes) determines the value, the amount of interest in sellers and buyers fgor a given item, good or product. In prison, cigarettes indeed get traded like coins, and can go through many hands before finally getting smoked by somebody. It doe snot matter whether it is cigarettes, seashells, grams of salt or tobacco, or gold coins. If a prisoner sees any value in something that others do not see value in, he will be willing to trade for it. Either he wants it himself, or he wants to store some value for future use or investment, or hoping for a bigger profit later than what he could make in profit in the present. Historically seen , gold is a great trading item for most scenarios imaginable. Different to seashells, bread and coats, it also got prohibited by governments to be owed by private people time and again.

[Skybird]

The only 'pathetic rhetoric' here is yours, Skybird. You babble on endlessly (in multiple threads, even when they are on other topics entirely) about fiat money, and about how gold is somehow a 'real' measure of value, and then post a thread claiming that the price is being manipulated. Both cannot be true.

Of course it can, else the term "criminal" would not have any meaning.

That the market for gold prices currently is being manipulated heavily, because governments and central banks have a high interest in doing so to hide their own desastrous policies, IS criminal behaviour - it borders high treason. The article you referred to (the translation that I linked) , hints at governments and central banks indeed being in deep conspiracy in order to force private gold owner to trade their gold for (taxable) FIAT debts bonds. In Europe they now start to talk about increasing pressure on private savings to be put back on bank accounts - where the state can easier grab its hands for them. I am pretty sure that before my life ends I will have witnessed a new gold prohibition in the EU, like there has been so many in history. I assume it will also come to the US again.

Rest assured, there will be no prohibition on your precious FIAT money banknotes, only a constant devaluing by printing frenzies, and the consequences. They want you to accept them for your gold. Obviously they consider your gold more valuable than their FIAT money.

[STEED]

I'll have all your fivers then. :yep:

On the way..

Oberon
Some where in Suffolk
No idea of post code
England, UK

With luck your get them in 3 to 4 days or any time in the next 50 years. :03:

[vienna]

In your scenario, doomsday all over the world, maybe gold will not be worth much anymore. But I promise you one thing - for gold you will be able to trade some food or a safe passage somewhere for much longer time, then with state bonds banknotes or cheap steel coins representing FIAT money only.


Okay, we're both at the dock looking for safe passage and there's only one berth. The guy with the boat is real hungry himself and probably is looking for something he can use to barter with later. You've got a case of gold; I'ne got a few spare cans of food. Who do you think is getting that berth?...

<O>

[Skybird]

Depends on the reölative value of gold on the local black market, the availability of food in general, and the assessment of the guy whether he can hold out a bit longer and get a thiosuand times as much food later on with my gold, if he hungers halöf a day longer only instead of taking your basket of food.

Can't you get the logic? It makes no sense to question what I said about thwe two kinds of money by just referring to a single, constructed scenario trying to make that a - nonwokring - proof for the invalidity of my descpriptions. The market and the way it changes the values of items all the time is much more than just one local scenarios. It is the interaction resulting from ever changing conditions between sellers and buyers.

Even if the sailor is short of starving, what I say remaisn to be true: that the request and availability defines the value of goods and commodities and that his interest for food over gold decides whether he accepts my basket of gold or your basket of foods. It is dynamic value-finding, always. Non-static like you seem to base on.

[Oberon]

On the way..

Oberon
Some where in Suffolk
No idea of post code
England, UK

With luck your get them in 3 to 4 days or any time in the next 50 years. :03:

Knowing the mail it'll probably get "lost" in a sorting office somewhere in Ipswich

[Cybermat47]

and then shows the kid the original hand turned into a fist and the other seven hands his many octopus arms have,

So... Slenderman is stealing our gold? I thought he just abducted people and made proxies!

[Jimbuna]

Please let it be the one to Nancy Astor OR the one to Bessie Braddock. :yeah:

Although I feel I'm going to be very disappointed on this.


The artwork will also include:

Churchill's declaration "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" which came in a speech in the Commons on 13 May 1940


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22306707

[Takeda Shingen]

So, Churchill.....

Sometimes I think about coming back to you all. Then I read this sort of thing and see that you are still arguing about nothing at all. Winston Churchill deserves a place in memoriam. I don't care what you think about the worth of paper money. For the love of all that is good, learn to turn it off once in awhile. Jesus H. Christ.

I used to like this place, you know.

[Schroeder]

I hope i will not have to to explain i make a joke everytime i try to make one :D
Well sir, if I recall correctly you're from Germany which makes you humourless by default. Therefore nobody could expect you to be funny.:D

[soopaman2]

Certainly he deserves more than 5 pounds?

*lfg unicode for pound symbol*

I mean, he only held the free world together.

Largest Bill in UK, who is on it, most likely the queen right?

She has not done a millionth as much as Churchill.

No disrespect intended.:salute:

[Onkel Neal]

Not before time...this honour should have been given years ago.


I agree 100%. I have to get me one of these for my wall. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Certainly he deserves more than 5 pounds?

*lfg unicode for pound symbol*

I mean, he only held the free world together.

Largest Bill in UK, who is on it, most likely the queen right?

She has not done a millionth as much as Churchill.

No disrespect intended.:salute:

The current British 50 pound note has a portrait of Queen Elizabeth the Second on the front and a portrait of Sir John Houblon (the first Governor of the Bank of England, serving in the post from 1694 to 1697) on the back.

I agree 100%. I have to get me one of these for my wall. :yep:

Me too :cool:

[Tchocky]

Skybird is rapidly turning into GT's very own Tea Party Commissar.


Nevermind that by switching to the gold standard you're swapping a halfway-predictable inflationary model for one that is completely arbitrary and subject to massive unexpected supply shocks. Better hope the random assortment of countries mining gold doesn't get any more random.

Nevermind that practically nobody with a serious scholarly and/or professional interest in currency trading advocates going to gold. The arguments for going back to the gold standard, as evinced in this thread, have nothing to do with how beneficial the gold standard is, but with the perceived problems with fiat money.

Most of which are imaginary.


As for Winston, good for him! It's too soon for Thatcher, legacy nonwithstanding.

[soopaman2]

The current British 50 pound note has a portrait of Queen Elizabeth the Second on the front and a portrait of Sir John Houblon (the first Governor of the Bank of England, serving in the post from 1694 to 1697) on the back.

Thank you for curing my ignorance on that matter. :up:

I think maybe the fiver would be good for Sir Churchill, after all. It is more commonly used, I would think.

I have a shining respect for the man, he was just as much an American hero as Washington, he is vastly underrated here across the pond amongst the "rubes". (I.e: people who do not appreciate history)

[Jimbuna]

Thank you for curing my ignorance on that matter. :up:

I think maybe the fiver would be good for Sir Churchill, after all. It is more commonly used, I would think.

I have a shining respect for the man, he was just as much an American hero as Washington, he is vastly underrated here across the pond amongst the "rubes". (I.e: people who do not appreciate history)

Rgr that...he was a great man and a friend of America.

[Onkel Neal]

He was the man the world needed. And Britain stood with him.

[Oberon]

Rgr that...he was a great man and a friend of America.

He had a unique insight on America, being half-American.

[Takeda Shingen]

He was a great man, period. Like all great men, and all men for that matter, he did good and he did ill. In the end, he left his indelible mark on humanity, and for all of us that is all that we can ask.

[Platapus]

That cigar chomping (expletive) wasn't so bad.:O: ( I always giggle at that scene in Das Boot, couldn't help myself:haha:)


A drunken paralytic I believe was the phrase.

[Platapus]

...
Largest Bill in UK, who is on it, most likely the queen right?



The current British 50 pound note has a portrait of Queen Elizabeth the Second on the front and a portrait of Sir John Houblon (the first Governor of the Bank of England, serving in the post from 1694 to 1697) on the back.



Is the 50 pound note the largest denomination note in Britain?

[BossMark]

So, Winston Churchill is to appear on the back of the £5 note from 2016.

Well, I for one shall spend them on the beaches.

[Cybermat47]

Well, I for one shall spend them on the beaches.

:haha::har:

[Tribesman]

I only ever heard the wifes grandmother use "vulgar" language under two circumstances, both circumstances concerned her talking about specific individuals.
Winston was one of those two individuals of her aquaintance who would be talked of in a derogatory manner.

[Jimbuna]

Is the 50 pound note the largest denomination note in Britain?

As far as I'm aware and definitely in terms of public circulation.

When I lived in Holland during the time their currency was the Guilder I would often come across the 1000 Guilder note....the exchange rate at the time was about 3.2 Guilders to the Pound, making that note worth approximately £1000.

[Schroeder]

As far as I'm aware and definitely in terms of public circulation.

When I lived in Holland during the time their currency was the Guilder I would often come across the 1000 Guilder note....the exchange rate at the time was about 3.2 Guilders to the Pound, making that note worth approximately £1000.
Then this was either a 10.000 Guilder or just 100£.:O:

BTW the largest Euro note is 500€.

[Catfish]

So, Winston Churchill is to appear on the back of the £5 note from 2016.
Well, I for one shall spend them on the beaches.

:rotfl2: Priceless !

[Jimbuna]

Then this was either a 10.000 Guilder or just 100£.:O:

BTW the largest Euro note is 500€.

Yeah, I meant to say £300 :oops:

[Catfish]

Well sir, if I recall correctly you're from Germany which makes you humourless by default. Therefore nobody could expect you to be funny.:D

I just made a similar experience in another thread here.
I guess no one understands german humour :dead: