Sometimes there are no excuses to be found

[mapuc]

My little sister is under education to become a social worker and her education includes in particular psychology

I have read some part of her books about psychology and I have heard her talking about videos they have seen

One of those video was about a grown up who had become a violent person

My sister told me that it was important to find out if something had happen to this person during it's childhood.

It was then I said to my sister
Sometimes there are no excuses to be found. It's typical psychology trying to find some kind of excuses.

There are always something there, my sister replied.

Me: Such as
Her: He or she could have been beaten as child
Me: There are thousand if not millions of children that have been beaten and are working great as grown-up, being nice to their wife, children and their fellow human beings.

Me: why can't you and the psychology not recognize that some people simply just likes to harm others.


Markus

[Nippelspanner]

My little sister is under education to become a social worker and her education includes in particular psychology

I have read some part of her books about psychology and I have heard her talking about videos they have seen

One of those video was about a grown up who had become a violent person

My sister told me that it was important to find out if something had happen to this person during it's childhood.

It was then I said to my sister
Sometimes there are no excuses to be found. It's typical psychology trying to find some kind of explanations.

There are always something there, my sister replied.

Me: Such as
Her: He or she could have been beaten as child
Me: There are thousand if not millions of children that have been beaten and are working great as grown-up, being nice to their wife, children and their fellow human beings.

Me: why can't you and the psychology not recognize that some people simply just likes to harm others.


Markus
I think your sister has the upper hand on that topic. While she tries to look for a possible explanation for the mans behaviour, you simply shrug your shoulders. If Im not mistaken, she did not say there must be something - but there could be.
And if there is something, there is a possibility for treatment.

You would be surprised how many of those thousands if not millions of grown-ups are indeed violent towards their family...

[mapuc]

I think your sister has the upper hand on that topic. While she tries to look for a possible explanation for the mans behaviour, you simply shrug your shoulders. If Im not mistaken, she did not say there must be something - but there could be.
And if there is something, there is a possibility for treatment.

You would be surprised how many of those thousands if not millions of grown-ups are indeed violent towards their family...

I'm not saying that there ain't something there that could have been the trigger to their behavior as grown-up. I'm saying that sometimes there are no excuses to be found.

Let me give you an example. The last few days I have heard on radio and tv, expert trying to find some kind of things to why those two brothers made this terrible thing i Boston. Maybe there is nothing there, maybe they have been brainwashed by their religion.

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

maybe they have been brainwashed by their religion.

There you go? :)

Sure, maybe, sometimes, it is just like it is. I don't know. From my experiences, there is always something.

But if something really is the reason for someones behaviour... who knows?

[mapuc]

There you go? :)

Sure, maybe, sometimes, it is just like it is. I don't know. From my experiences, there is always something.

But if something really is the reason for someones behaviour... who knows?

But that's no excuse to what they did and they shall have their punishment and so shall other people that do awful and forbidden things, whatever it may be.

And some of them need treatment in a special hospital.

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

No one said something about excuse (except you). I already corrected that. Psychology is not searching for excuses, but for explanations, there is a difference.

Of course they need to be put to justice, no matter what. No one questions that?

[mapuc]

No one said something about excuse (except you). I already corrected that. Psychology is not searching for excuses, but for explanations, there is a difference.

Of course they need to be put to justice, no matter what. No one questions that?

In my country Sweden and Denmark, they do that

It's like-your poor human, have you been beaten a.s.o as child your are forgiven for what you have done, but please remember to not do so again.

That's why I wrote about finding excuses.

But maybe it's different in Germany.

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

Mh, na, not really. I know what you mean. They get away too often... and receive better treatment thatn the actual victim(s)... That is what drives me crazy...

Just... let us not go there :/\\!!

[mapuc]

Mh, na, not really. I know what you mean. They get away too often... and receive better treatment thatn the actual victim(s)... That is what drives me crazy...

Just... let us not go there :/\\!!

Then we agree on some of it.

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

Oh definately! :salute:

[Armistead]

Psychology is certainly becoming a big issue in the courts and it should be concerning. So often the criminals behavior is excused that someone on the jury connects and they get a much lighter sentence, even though they clearly knew right from wrong.

[Madox58]

If it was as simple as stated in OP? Why special Units to figure out nut jobs?
:haha:

[raymond6751]

If Hitler had been abused as a child his adult behaviour might be explained.
If his condition could have been detected and treated earlier, his hatred toned down?

The problem with the "understanding" by doctors is that it happens after the offenses are committed. They want a way to treat people before they hurt others. They can't do that with today's laws that protect the rights of an individual.

There are doctors treating the victims too, hopefully avoiding bad events later.

[Hottentot]

Fascinating to follow this discussion for once when it's not my discipline being the subject. I so rarely get to see it from this point of view. Not that it looks much different from where I'm standing now.

[Garion]

If Hitler had been abused as a child his adult behaviour might be explained.
If his condition could have been detected and treated earlier, his hatred toned down?

The problem with the "understanding" by doctors is that it happens after the offenses are committed. They want a way to treat people before they hurt others. They can't do that with today's laws that protect the rights of an individual.

There are doctors treating the victims too, hopefully avoiding bad events later.


He was abused by today's standards, his dad used to kick the crap out of him and beat him with a leather belt.

Cheers

gary

[Skybird]

Sometimes there are no excuses to be found. It's typical psychology trying to find some kind of excuses.

There are always something there, my sister replied.

Saying this as a former psychologist myself: you are both generalizing.

However, in psychology, there is a strong tendency for claiming general authority indeed, and to claim validity for each and every aspect of human life. But that is for historical and political reasons. One can have them nicely summarized in this (German) book which I think has been a dissertation originally, then got published in an academic publishing house: Michael Sonntag: Die Seele als Politikum. Psychologieund die Produktion des Individuums. Dietrich Reimer Verlag Berlin, 1988, Reihe Historische Anthropologie Band 3. I found this book not before I had finished studying and got my diploma. Possible that if I would have found this book 2 or 3 years earlier, I never would have studied until the end (if I would have had the courage to break and start all new). If your sister happens to understand German, you could to her a favour by trying to get her a copy of this book. It is hard to find, though (I would not lend my copy of it, at least not yet).

Edit: Ah, here it is, second hand:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Die-Seele-als-Politikum-Anthropologie/dp/3496009470/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366737188&sr=8-1&keywords=michael+sonntag+die+seele+als+politikum

[Jimbuna]

Well when considering what he turned out to be like he didn't do a good enough job :)

[Platapus]

I'm saying that sometimes there are no excuses to be found.

Which is completely different than there not being an excuse.

[Armistead]

I once dated a psychologist, but she turned out to be a nut that made a career out of it.

[Jimbuna]

I once dated a psychologist, but she turned out to be a nut that made a career out of it.

I married one :doh: