idiot politicians should make selling ammo online illegal

[Webster]

here is a great idea for those idiot politicians that think they need to make new laws every time a criminal breaks a law.

make the selling of ammo online illegal, only in person sales would be allowed to individuals by an official retailer or retail outlet just like they do for cigarettes and alcohol where ID for proof of age is required.

all those scammers out there hoarding ammo and reselling it at 3 and 4 times face value can go back to selling crack or whatever they did before they started scalping ammo.

EDIT - ok correction, I will amend this to say limit ammo sales to retail outlets only so a business can sell it at stores locally or online but not individuals

[Ducimus]

Were you just at gunbroker.com or similar website? :haha:

[Red October1984]

Were you just at gunbroker.com or similar website? :haha:

I just was... :D

[Stealhead]

If you stock up on common ammo in general you will not be effected by price spikes.Just a thought.

[TLAM Strike]

Sooooo basically regulate the internet?

yea...

...excuse me... :har:

[Red October1984]

Sooooo basically regulate the internet?

yea...

...excuse me... :har:

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

I was originally going to post something along that line but I decided against it. :har:

[Stealhead]

In the US ammunition is a free market item and the federal government has no say in how much it should or should not cost.

Anyone can price gouge as well a person in a brick and mortar store can do it just as easily as an online seller can.

Everyone goes to cheaperthandirt anyway so they are one of most likely places to price gouge.Just because a site has a certain name does not mean that the implication of the name is true.

As I said before the only way to not get effected by the market is to regularly stockpile your ammo or load/reload on your own.

[Ducimus]

But... but.. If I stockpile ammo, I'll look like one of those crazy doomsday prepper people! :O:


Honestly, I think most everyone in my state who owns a house is sitting on their own personal cache in their basement. Truth of the matter is, right now, you can't even get supplies for reloading - least of all in 9MM. I can't get ammo for my handgun, outside of what we have in an ammo can labeled "9MM", but I can still buy brazilian made M80 ball ammo locally. Go figure.

[raymond6751]

With all that ammo stored all over the place, I guess the second most dangerous job (after cops) must be fire fighter.

Snap, Crackle, Pop :/\\!!

[Ducimus]

With all that ammo stored all over the place, I guess the second most dangerous job (after cops) must be fire fighter.

Snap, Crackle, Pop :/\\!!

Actually, not really.

SAAMI - Sporting Ammunition and the Fire Fighter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c)

In short, no pressure buildup, little to no velocity. Many high powered rounds won't even penetrate sheetrock.

[Webster]

its a very simple concept to grasp, there wouldn't be any ammo shortage if individuals couldn't sell ammo on the internet. retailers with FFL licenses could still sell it just not individuals.

its really as simple as that, you stop the thousands of people who don't even own guns from buying up all the ammo in sight then reselling to the highest bidder. a good portion of these people are the store employees who know they can make a lot of money reselling it out of their house after buying up the stores stock instead of putting it on the shelf.

take away the ability for them to profit from reselling the ammo and suddenly they have no reason to buy it all up and you will see the shelves at the store restock.

there is no reason anyone can support unrestricted ammo sales by individuals online unless they too are trying to make money reselling ammo.

right now to buy a gun, cigaretts, or alcohol, you need to show ID so you have to buy it or pick it up in person from a retail outfit so do the same with ammo is all im saying. if they cant resell it they wont buy it before a legitimate gun owner looking for ammo can go looking for it

if the 18 year old kid down the street with no job can go to walmart, cabelas, bass pro, academy, gander mountain, etc. every morning and buy up the ammo to resell then he is cheating legit ammo buyers as well as tax evasion because you know damn well he aint reporting hes making $300-$400 a week or more flipping ammo on ebay or gunbroker

[Stealhead]

its a very simple concept to grasp, there wouldn't be any ammo shortage if individuals couldn't sell ammo on the internet. retailers with FFL licenses could still sell it just not individuals.

its really as simple as that, you stop the thousands of people who don't even own guns from buying up all the ammo in sight then reselling to the highest bidder. a good portion of these people are the store employees who know they can make a lot of money reselling it out of their house after buying up the stores stock instead of putting it on the shelf.

take away the ability for them to profit from reselling the ammo and suddenly they have no reason to buy it all up and you will see the shelves at the store restock.

there is no reason anyone can support unrestricted ammo sales by individuals online unless they too are trying to make money reselling ammo.

right now to buy a gun, cigaretts, or alcohol, you need to show ID so you have to buy it or pick it up in person from a retail outfit so do the same with ammo is all im saying. if they cant resell it they wont buy it before a legitimate gun owner looking for ammo can go looking for it

if the 18 year old kid down the street with no job can go to walmart, cabelas, bass pro, academy, gander mountain, etc. every morning and buy up the ammo to resell then he is cheating legit ammo buyers as well as tax evasion because you know damn well he aint reporting hes making $300-$400 a week or more flipping ammo on ebay or gunbroker

I think you are really stretching things to think that there are thousands of 18 year old kids running around buying ammo everyday and then re-selling it.

You have short term memory because there where ammo shortages long before the internet was commonly used to sell items.

As I have said before companies that produce ammunition for public use are in it to make a profit.It is actually to their benefit for ammo to be in high demand because they can then sell at a higher price to the retailer.

When a factory over produces that is a loose in profit.The problem is not a certain group of people buying and reselling it is the fact that many calibers are very common and when gun sales spike for what ever reason that of course means that the most popular guns are going to sell and in turn the most popular ammo types.

It really is simple supply and demand in a very large market effected by several factors and the people you have a beef with a but a drop in that bucket compared to several other factors.

@Ducimus The shops I buy from know me as a hunter and shooter not a nutcase prepper though they do take money from those types.

[Webster]

ok maybe asking for in person sales only is going too far but cant any of you can see the huge difference in online auctions selling overpriced ammo to the highest bidder and the legitimate online DEALERS out there?

stopping INDIVIDUALS from holding auctions selling to the highest bidder will not effect in any way the way you buy ammo online right now except to shut down the scalpers market and make ammo cheaper and more available to everyone.

time and time again when the supply chain is looked at the factories are producing the ammo and it is being shipped out but it isn't reaching the store shelves its going to online auctions instead. its a combination of store employees themselves or with friends who are taking advantage of the system to buy up ammo before legitimate customers can get to it.

and there is a large group of the unemployed who make a living by going to the retail outlets every morning buying up all the ammo because its more then just a coincidence that every auction site lists ammo in lots of the buy limits at local stores.


im just thinking if there is some way to stop these idiots willing to pay such high prices from creating a scalpers market that hurts everyone.

its wrong I know but what can you do? we cant send these idiots to their room for a time out until they learn not to buy overpriced ammo lol

[August]

I see the difference but I think the best place to buy my ammo is at my local gun shop.

[Ducimus]

I see the difference but I think the best place to buy my ammo is at my local gun shop.

Personally, I have never purchased ammo online. In my area, with the exception of select reloading components; it's just cheaper to buy local, then pay shipping and handling.

[TwoGamers]

Get rid of the guns entirely. Problem solved you won't get anymore school shootings . Australia's period of that. There is no practical reason to have guns publicly available.

[TLAM Strike]

and there is a large group of the unemployed who make a living by going to the retail outlets every morning buying up all the ammo because its more then just a coincidence that every auction site lists ammo in lots of the buy limits at local stores. :timeout: So you want to hurt the unemployed by taking away a form of self employment as a source of income? :hmmm:

[TLAM Strike]

I know it's the second amendment but that was written more then a century ago. Times change. The right to bear arms is reasonable if you lived in a dangerous country.

Half the world wants to see America destroyed. Plus we just had two people blow up a few hundred civilians and engage in a day long firefight with police. Right now it is a dangerous time to be an American, and that is why we have the 2nd Amendment (one of the reasons anyways).

(2 centuries BTW)

[Ducimus]

Get rid of the guns entirely. Problem solved you won't get anymore school shootings . Australia's period of that. There is no practical reason to have guns publicly available.


Trolling.

[Tchocky]

Half the world wants to see America destroyed. Plus we just had two people blow up a few hundred civilians and engage in a day long firefight with police. Right now it is a dangerous time to be an American, and that is why we have the 2nd Amendment (one of the reasons anyways).

(2 centuries BTW)

Overstating the case massively. I actually can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

[Sailor Steve]

Get rid of the guns entirely. Problem solved you won't get anymore school shootings . Australia's period of that. There is no practical reason to have guns publicly available.
This shows that you have zero understanding of anything. First, we have a thing called the Bill Of Rights, which guarantees non-interference by the Government into our private lives. Just because you think there is no practical reason doesn't make it so. The reason, whether you think it's practical or not, is that this country rebelled against British rule and we did so with privately owned guns, which kept the King at bay until we could actually make an army. We keep our guns because we don't want that to happen again.

To get rid of the guns entirely would involve changing the very basis of our government, and that is something that is pretty much impossible, for the very reason our form of government exists in the first place. Until you understand exactly how we think and who we are you are, as the old saying goes, talking through your hat.

[Buddahaid]

Get rid of the guns entirely. Problem solved you won't get anymore school shootings . Australia's period of that. There is no practical reason to have guns publicly available.

Why stop with guns? There are no practical reason to own fast cars, or fast bikes, or booze, etc. all of which get people killed. Sure silly argument but I don't think most people want practical need to dictate what they choose to enjoy doing.

EDIT: And you likely get a skewed view from the news as if everybody here in the USA is dodging bullets regularly. I've never seen a criminal shooting, or even heard one to my knowledge in 57 years.

[TLAM Strike]

Overstating the case massively. I actually can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Don't see how I'm overstating the case. A cursory tally will show that nations opposed to the west have combined over 20 million men under arms, and many of these are nations that have either publicly stated or demonstrated that it is there intention to wage unconventional warfare against their enemies, including the targeting of civilians.

On top of that as we have just seen yet again it is the stated tactic of several non-state entities to wage war against the west by the purposeful targeting of its civilian population. Like it or not every person who does not agree with them whether American, European or otherwise is a target.

[Webster]

Get rid of the guns entirely. Problem solved you won't get anymore school shootings . Australia's period of that. There is no practical reason to have guns publicly available.

guns make our lives safer, that has been proven constantly throughout history.

the places in America that take guns away from people are some of the most dangerous places to live



Why stop with guns? There are no practical reason to own fast cars, or fast bikes, or booze, etc. all of which get people killed. Sure silly argument but I don't think most people want practical need to dictate what they choose to enjoy doing.



you forgot to put fast women on that list, they are the most dangerous :har:

[Spike88]

Why stop with guns? There are no practical reason to own fast cars, or fast bikes, or booze, etc. all of which get people killed. Sure silly argument but I don't think most people want practical need to dictate what they choose to enjoy doing.

EDIT: And you likely get a skewed view from the news as if everybody here in the USA is dodging bullets regularly. I've never seen a criminal shooting, or even heard one to my knowledge in 57 years.

Think that just depends on where you live.

A couple new years ago, what started as a burglary into a weed house turned into a car chase involving an AK-47. The car that was being chased(the people who had tried to rob the weed house) ended up crashing their car into a stop sign down the street from my house. The people in the car got out and fled on foot, and one of them decided to come in through our back door(the two state trooper cars out front probably had something to do with it). Unfortunately at that time, we didn't have our fence in the backyard yet, and we hadn't locked the back door for the night. Luckily the pursuers either A. Didn't want to attack police officers or B. realize that they one of them had gone into our house. My parents sat the guy in our living room, and watched over him with their service pistols until Metro arrived and took him away.

The people who he was trying to rob apparently knew who he was, and preceded to do a drive-by on his house. Twice. The first time no one was home. The second time his family was out front, and several of his family members were killed.

Fast forward to last year/this year, and there have been several criminal shootings in a nearby neighborhood. Mind you, my neighborhood is fairly safe, but low income African American neighborhoods are 10 minutes away.

[Webster]

anyway, back on topic

THIS IS NOT A DUSCUSSION ABOUT GUN RIGHTS - go here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203106) to discuss that


we are talking about solutions and ways of limiting the ammo auctions

right now it is illegal for individuals to resell cigarettes and alcohol, they can ONLY be sold by licensed regulated retail outlets and that's the same way I think ammo should be treated.

treat ammo like they do with alcohol so as long as it is a licensed retail outlet store or retail online outlet then they can sell it but duphus and dimwhit cant go every morning to buy up all the ammo then flip it online at 2 to 3 times its value and in the process create a false shortage of ammo for local customers to buy.

[August]

treat ammo like they do with alcohol so as long as it is a licensed retail outlet store or retail online outlet then they can sell it but duphus and dimwhit cant go every morning to buy up all the ammo then flip it online at 2 to 3 times its value and in the process create a false shortage of ammo for local customers to buy.

Look if it is a false shortage as you claim then it will eventually self correct and those duphuses and dimwits will be left holding the bag. Law of supply and demand.

Unlike you however I don't see reselling as a major contributing factor. People are genuinely scared that the government is going to make ammo too difficult or expensive to obtain so everyone is stocking up.

[Cybermat47]

Get rid of the guns entirely. Problem solved you won't get anymore school shootings . Australia's period of that. There is no practical reason to have guns publicly available.

You can still buy handguns, shotguns and rifles here in Australia, just not semi-autos.

[U570]

http://vimeo.com/64432171
Segment from The Daily Show about Australia's gun laws (which worked)

[Webster]

Look if it is a false shortage as you claim then it will eventually self correct and those duphuses and dimwits will be left holding the bag. Law of supply and demand.

Unlike you however I don't see reselling as a major contributing factor. People are genuinely scared that the government is going to make ammo too difficult or expensive to obtain so everyone is stocking up.

fair enough but it cannot self correct as long as the stores use predetermined stock purchases they do not adjust for reduced supplies and increased demand. so the way store restock in todays world supply and demand has no effect or impact on what stores do so the laws of supply and demand no longer apply to todays retailers.


duphus and dimwit go buy up all the ammo as fast as the store gets it then THEY, by their actions alone, continue to create a never ending false shortage because the store only get a few shipments a month to restock so when they buy it all there is none for the real ammo buyers and that puts them in a position of having no ammo or buying from said duphus and dimwit at the prices THEY dictate. they game the system because I don't know if you are aware of it but the "stores" don't decide what is ordered or restocked anymore, its all done by computers that will only replace the normal stock amounts and it will not send more no matter how fast the item is sold. the restocking software has no ability to determine when stocks should be reduced or increased based on demand or speeds at which products are bought once they get to the store. this is why most of the time you can only buy patio furniture in the winter time and winter coats in the summer time. at some point the online retailers will destroy the resellers market by offering reasonable prices again but it will be a long time before that works through the system since they too are gouging customers.

I don't like the precident it would set either but as long as THEY are creating the shortages it wont stop unless the stores have the ability to change the amount they reorder (which as explained above they don't) or you stop duphus and dimwit from being able to resell it since you cant and shouldn't try to limit who can buy it.

as long as you can shut down the supply by buying up all that is available before others can have a chance to buy it then they can create the false shortage and dictate the terms and prices it is sold under.

[Tchocky]

Don't see how I'm overstating the case. A cursory tally will show that nations opposed to the west have combined over 20 million men under arms, and many of these are nations that have either publicly stated or demonstrated that it is there intention to wage unconventional warfare against their enemies, including the targeting of civilians.
And if The West meant only the USA you wouldn't have been wrong. But it doesn't.

On top of that as we have just seen yet again it is the stated tactic of several non-state entities to wage war against the west by the purposeful targeting of its civilian population. Like it or not every person who does not agree with them whether American, European or otherwise is a target.

And again, America is not The West.

[Ducimus]

I'll just leave this here, and you can make of it whatever you'd like:

Ammo Scarcity: How To Find Ammunition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I1BZBq10Sw)