Surface Night Attack

[MantiBrutalis]

As I had to endure 2 hours of Czech train transportation today, I spent my time reading random articles about U-boats.

I always knew that these things happened, but never actually had any text to prove it. Today, I found some very interesting information on Wikipedia depicting wolfpack attacks on convoys SC-7 and HX-79.


Here goes the passages that caught my attention:
"They (the escort) never realised that the attacking submarines did not attack submerged or from outside the convoy, but were actually running surfaced between the ships inside the convoy."

"Undeterred by their (11 warship escort) presence however, the pack attacked as night fell; using the darkness to cover an approach on the surface, U-47 penetrated the escort screen from the south to attack from within the convoy, while U-46 did the same from the north."

Also: "Finally, the presence of an allied submarine was less than helpful; O-14 had no targets, and was twice attacked by mistake by other escorts." Pfff. :har:

My question: Did anybody actually try to pull this stunt in the game? Is it possible, at least in bad weather?

[Wreford-Brown]

It's very possible, particularly if you run decks awash.

It's suicidal in daylight but is possible at night even in good weather. At night with fog it's a great tactic as long as you don't mind firing blind!

Fire off all torpedoes, crash dive to as deep as you can go then creep away from the convoy while the escorts try and dodge around the ships in the convoy.

[MantiBrutalis]

Also, escorts shouldn't hear your engines where you're under the convoy, how well is that included in the game?

[Jimbuna]

That depends on the crew status of the escort....novice, veteran, elite etc.

[RustySubmarine]

Although I have never actually had the chance to sail surfaced inside a convoy, I have often thought about it. Providing you can get close enough to get inside a convoy, which is not easy, I did have a similar close encounter on one patrol I did a few years ago, where I submerged under the convoy itself and ran 150 feet below to avoid depth charging after loosing a couple of torpedoes at one of the ships.

I used the external camera to guide me (although cheating I suppose) but I did manage to run with the convoy and escape the pursuing escorts by sliding off, away from the convoy whilst at this depth. After about an hour once clear, on, the other side of the convoy I remained submerged for a further half hour and finally managed to surface, to see the convoy sailing away in the distant, with the escorts out of my range. But this was just one lucky incident, where I happened to be quite close to the convoy before I attacked. I did manage to sink the ship I fired at, but out of about twenty ships in the convoy, I only managed to sink the one.

[sharkbit]

I've managed to get in between the escorts and the first column of merchants early war on the surface a couple of times. One of the most tense times I've had playing this game- watching the escort sail behind me while watching the merchants in front of me and aiming my eels. A real nail biter.

I would say it is probably the most satisfying experience I've had in this game. A sucessful night surface attack against a convoy and the escorts having no clue where you're at as you slip away on the surface, watching them shoot star shells in a totally different direction.

I've never tried actually penetrating inside the convoy at night and on the surface though. I've done it submerged a few times. That is a pretty tense situation.

Of course, late war, all bets are off whether submerged or on the surface and trying to penetrate a convoy. :dead:

:)

[Kapt Z]

The spacing between the ships in convoy in the game is much less than was in the actual convoys. No where near as much room to maneuver and you are bound to be at least sighted, if not shot at, by the merchants let alone the escorts. I don't see much to gain(in the game) by being inside the convoy unless you are making a submerged attack.

The main benefit that I see of night surface attacks is the chance to stay on the surface, undetected and make multiple attacks without having to dive and fall behind the convoy. I watch the escort screen and when I see an opening I charge in, fire my fish at a couple good targets in the 2-3500 m range with torp speed at med-slow, swing around and flee out the way I came. Usually I can be well on my way out of range by the time the torps hit. Then reload and keep pace with convoy while things settle down and if there is enough time, repeat.

[sharkbit]

The spacing between the ships in convoy in the game is much less than was in the actual convoys. No where near as much room to maneuver and you are bound to be at least sighted, if not shot at, by the merchants let alone the escorts.

I've noticed that too. That is a huge factor really in whether you can sneak into a convoy at night in-game.

:)

[MantiBrutalis]

Quite often I deal with convoys in my own way. I dive right in the convoys path to cca 100 meters and once the lead escort passes me, I rush up to periscope depth in the middle of the convoy.

That has some pros and cons.

+ You have point blank shot from all of your tubes at once. There won't be any warning for the enemy, as they would get if you attacked from the side and you would have to turn around to fire your stern tubes. In which case there is significant time between the shots, giving the convoy to dodge and zig-zag.

+ The escort may precisely know where you are after you attack, but they are usually quite far from the center of the convoy and they will have a hard time getting to you through all the ships. You have all the time to dive deep and run.

- All your shots should be fired as close together as possible. That combined with the fact that you are so close to the ships, makes proper calculations hasty and hard to do. Estimation at this range will usually lead to hits, but there won't be those precise engine shots.

- Having a ship too close may render some shots impossible due to torpedo arming time. Also, there is the danger of getting rammed, if you're not careful enough.

- Slipping under the escort is based on luck and war progress. Possible even at 1942, but from then on very hard.

- You may not have enough time to come up to periscope depth, and you have harder time picking those tasty big targets...

[Captain Nemo]

Early in the war it is possible to sneak into the convoy lanes and select some valuable targets and fire at close range. Here is a link to a post that I made a few years ago that demostrates this http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149501&highlight=kretchmer+style .

As has been mentioned, you will need to dive soon after firing in order to escape successfully if you are within the convoy. If firing from outside the convoy you can go to flank speed away from the convoy and escape detection that way to set up another attack. In my current career I'm in mid 1943 where such tactics are impossible!:D

Nemo

[Kapt Z]

Radar changes everything. I usually give up attempting night surface attacks after mid-late 1941.

[Kptlt. Jurgen Stumpff]

When the first radar sets were introduced many users found them to be faulty and found major problems until around about July 1941 if my memory serves me correctly whether or not this is scripted in the game i have no idea but i would have to agree with Kapt Z on that one Around May 1941 surface attacks are hard to execute though it is still possible you are still dealing with the possibility throughout even the early stages of the war of one keen eyed ship or destroyer spotting you. It's best to be in and out as quickly as possible on the surface sometimes even try salvo attacks rather than precision aiming. I would recomend deck gun attacks earlier on in the war especially before the introduction of Flower corvettes in early 1940 because before that if you catch the convoy in the Mid-Atlantic you will find little to no escorts and no armed merchant's which presents free pickings of any ship you like. But always execute the attack at night like the real commanders because of the low visibility of course.
This is my opinion but if you are interested in surface attacks i would recommend looking at Kretschmeer's attack on SC-7 it is a perfect example.
Phewww that was a bit of a mouthfull:arrgh!: