Margaret Thatcher Dead!

[Oberon]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00686/margaret-thatcher_686629n.jpg

It's literally just been announced that former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has died at the age of 87.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155

Doubtless that this will polarise the nation like her time in power did, but let's try not to derail this into an anti-Tory thread, like her or not, she had a commanding personality and was the first woman Prime Minister in British history.

[Jimbuna]

Just about to post this but glad I checked here first.

RIP Baroness Thatcher



Doubtless that this will polarise the nation like her time in power did, but let's try not to derail this into an anti-Tory thread, like her or not, she had a commanding personality and was the first woman Prime Minister in British history.

Be kind enough to observe and follow the above...TIA

[Egan]

Indeed. The defining figure of Post-War British politics whether or not you liked her. The end of an era regardless of personal political conviction.

To be honest, I can't quite believe it. Such a vast influence on so many things.

[TarJak]

Steed and BossMark will be rejoicing no doubt. But her record as a politician of any type is impressive by any measure. She certainly was one tough lady and by all accounts had the measure of just about every man in politics at the time.

RIP

[BossMark]

As a former coal miner, I disagreed with all her polices (apart from the Falklands war) and now i am off for a pint or 3

[Feuer Frei!]

Be kind enough to observe and follow the above...TIA

Looks like someone's already failed miserably.

RIP Iron Lady.

[Red October1984]

I don't know anything about British Politics. It doesn't matter though.

RIP

There was one prime minister that I saw volunteered to be the hostage in an SAS training mission. I'm thinking it was Thatcher... :hmmm:

[Betonov]

From a foreigners point of wiew she certainly had cohones.
Let's hope our current PM has half of hers.

RIP

[Oberon]

I doubt Bossmark will be alone, and if you spent time in the UK industry during the 1980s, especially in the north then you'd feel the same way, and if anything I think Bossmark is actually probably holding back out of respect for the Subsim rules. Many in the NUM (Miners Union) will be in celebration today, her old nemesis Arthur Scargill will probably raise a pint that he's outlived her.


For people outside the UK, might I recommend watching the following links to get an understanding of the era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpGZcK02DPU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stv2x_-BZ9Q

It's two hours, but it'll give you a closer idea of why Margaret Thatcher became such a divisive figure in British history.

[Egan]

I doubt Bossmark will be alone, and if you spent time in the UK industry during the 1980s, especially in the north then you'd feel the same way, and if anything I think Bossmark is actually probably holding back out of respect for the Subsim rules. Many in the NUM (Miners Union) will be in celebration today, her old nemesis Arthur Scargill will probably raise a pint that he's outlived her.


For people outside the UK, might I recommend watching the following links to get an understanding of the era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpGZcK02DPU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stv2x_-BZ9Q

It's two hours, but it'll give you a closer idea of why Margaret Thatcher became such a divisive figure in British history.

Indeed. There are huge sections of the British community where she isn't disliked so much as truly hated for every thing she did and stood for. A lot of people genuinely do consider her to be truly, truly evil.

There are a huge amount of people who will have been waiting for this day for a long time. Hopefully now they will be able to turn that obsession to something useful.

[mookiemookie]

Whichever side of the fence you fall on, it's always a notable event when someone who was such a big personality on the world stage passes away.

Time marches on...

[Reece]

I liked her, she had a set!! Very Sad!:(

R.I.P.

[joea]

Certainly a remarkable individual-and I disagreed with her policies mostly.

[mapuc]

What ever you liked her or not, she have set her fingerprint on the world history

RIP

Lady Thatcher

[Tribesman]

My wife always says Thatcher and Dennis were very nice as people.

[STEED]

I don't give a toss, why should I.

[Sailor Steve]

As an American I obviously didn't live under her policies. I can see why some didn't like her, as is true with all powerful people in high positions. Whatever anyone may think of her personally or professionally, her place in history is solid.

You will be remembered, Iron Lady.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't give a toss, why should I.
It sounds like you do, just in the other direction. Otherwise why bother to say it at all? :sunny:

[STEED]

It sounds like you do, just in the other direction. Otherwise why bother to say it at all? :sunny:

Like BossMark I can not say Steve, more out of respect for the request on this thread.

[AVGWarhawk]

She always left an impression on me. Like others in this thread, I did not live under her policies and can not say much about it. I do recall she was quite prominent in world affairs. RIP.

[Hottentot]

Whatever anyone may think of her personally or professionally, her place in history is solid.

That's well said. :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

Like BossMark I can not say Steve, more out of respect for the request on this thread.
I fully understand, and I appreciate your reasons and your honesty. I just thought it was funny, kind of in the vein of "I'm here to tell you that I'm not saying anything!" :D

[STEED]

I fully understand, and I appreciate your reasons and your honesty. I just thought it was funny, kind of in the vein of "I'm here to tell you that I'm not saying anything!" :D

That's OK Steve. :up: :haha:

[Skybird]

Will be remembered as a controversial figure.

[Sammi79]

As a woman who punched her way to the top of the mens club, she was a truly inspirational character.

The rest, not so much.

R.I.P Mrs Thatcher.

[sidslotm]

as an active trade union member at the time of her appointment to prime minister she was preceived as dreaded nightmare by the unions where I worked, but looking back you knew where you stood with her. This is more than can be said today, a generation of professional politians have caused havoc with indecision, lying and cheating, defering all their responsibility to reason. Love her or loathe her, she got things done.

[BossMark]

Oh boy what a drink I have had by by.................

[mookiemookie]

Oh boy what a drink I have had by by.................

:rotfl2: I've been reading a lot of comments from Brits on the various Thatcher news stories, forums, posts, etc. and I see that you are not alone. Many pints being lifted today.

I'm going down to the expat pub I hang out at after work today. It will be interesting to see. :03:

[Egan]

as an active trade union member at the time of her appointment to prime minister she was preceived as dreaded nightmare by the unions where I worked, but looking back you knew where you stood with her. This is more than can be said today, a generation of professional politians have caused havoc with indecision, lying and cheating, defering all their responsibility to reason. Love her or loathe her, she got things done.

Actually, this chimes with something I've been thinking for some time. Thatcher's era seemed much more capable of joined-up political thinking based on certain economic and social conservative philosophies. In a sense that sort of thinking seemed to define her governments and, indeed, the spirit of the times - this is not to condone or condemn Tory politics of the time, just a perception of something. The current administration seem far more doctrinaire but less philosophically cohesive - perhaps because todays professional political class are more aware of the 'blue-sky' trends and theory but lack the life experience to understand how those theories work in practice. In a sense, was there a unity of purpose that has been replaced by skin saving, corporate groveling and filling their boots?

Anyway, just thinking out loud about something.

[ABBAFAN]

I don't know where I stand with regards to Thatcherism. As a northerner I lament the loss of British industry and the closing down of so many valuable communities. Having said that, I am an enemy of rampant trade unionism and certainly would agree with much of MT's ideology with regards to British soverignty and non membership of the EU. I also admire her strong semse of purpose and contrast this with the wet politicians we have today.
Over the Falklands issue, I am very much in agreeance with Thatcher and I'm sure the islanders i have spent time amongst recently will be reflecting today.

[Cybermat47]

Rest in peace.

[CaptainHaplo]

As an admirer of her, though from the other side of the pond, I respect that there are many that disagreed with her positions. Regardless, may her soul find its rest and we all remember a leader who will be remembered.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Rest in peace Baroness Margaret Thatcher.

[mookiemookie]

Update from Ron's Pub - Brit friends are split on whether she was the savior of England or damned to hell.

I've decided to let the question be. :salute:

[soopaman2]

I will only say RIP.

I have foul opinions of her otherwise.(politically)

[yubba]

Wow, I didn't know how conservative minded she was in american standards, I've listen to some of her speeches from years ago today, and they are about spot on what we are going through now, how a nation more interested in redistrabuting wealth, doesn't inspire wealth creation, sound familar ??????? RIP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw wow ain't that truth.

[TLAM Strike]

RIP Prime Minister Thatcher.

For better or worse remembered on both sides on the Atlantic. :salute:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8002/fe130408thatcher425x283.jpg

[Oberon]

RIP Prime Minister Thatcher.

For better or worse remembered on both sides on the Atlantic. :salute:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8002/fe130408thatcher425x283.jpg

You can bet her and Ronnie are having a whale of a time wherever they are. That was a time when the 'special relationship' was at its closest since WWII. :yep:

[soopaman2]

You can bet her and Ronnie are having a whale of a time wherever they are. That was a time when the 'special relationship' was at its closest since WWII. :yep:


Yeah, they had a blast reading Ayn Rand books, and de regulating the banking industry, and destroying unions together. Unmitigated capitalism, so tasty, at least for some...

They then both took credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
And rode that fame into ruinous policies.

Yeah RIP. I hope your gods forgive you.

[andritsos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpGZcK02DPU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stv2x_-BZ9Q

It's two hours, but it'll give you a closer idea of why Margaret Thatcher became such a divisive figure in British history.


thanks for the informative videos

[BossMark]

You can bet her and Ronnie are having a whale of a time wherever they are. That was a time when the 'special relationship' was at its closest since WWII. :yep:
Well it wont be heaven that's a certainty, now I am off to work with a hangover

[TorpX]

To me, she was a great leader. The political midgets of recent years make this clear. I don't understand why she was a devisive figure.

R.I.P.

[Feuer Frei!]

To me, she was a great leader. The political midgets of recent years make this clear. I don't understand why she was a devisive figure.

R.I.P.


She was a decisive figure because she had a rugged individualism, looking after self interests, rather than being communitarian, she crushed trade unionism, miners, cut funding to Liverpool, she was detested by many.
She stirred up British nationalism with the Faulklands victory. And she was brought down by her own party.
She publicly announced she was going to bring down the IRA, and look what happened after that. The IRA bombed her hotel room in Brighton.
She was once asked what she changed about British politics. She answered: "everything". Modest? Yes, but she was right.

Margaret Thatcher stuck to the practice of saying what she meant and meaning what she said. When she said the lady wasn't for turning, she wasn't. When she said the Falklands must be liberated come what may, they were. When she said that people would be allowed to buy their own council houses, they were too. When she told European politicians that she wanted a rebate on the billions Britain overpaid the EEC, she held out till she got one.

She went down fighting for her principles; no one was in any doubt about what she stood for or what she believed in. You might not have agreed with her, but few deny that hers was a towering political honesty of the kind hardly ever heard from today's so-called leaders.

Margaret Thatcher was responsible for financial deregulation, getting rid of Britain's exchange controls.
She pissed people off, ruined peoples lives. But she stuck up for what she believed in, adapted to new situations and represented the country with an Iron Fist.

As you can see, pros and cons, she was detested, and liked.

Here are some quotes from her:

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."
– on her election as Prime Minister in 1979

"If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something done, ask a woman." – speech to National Union of Townswomen’s Guilds Conference on May 20, 1965

"I am extraordinarily patient — provided I get my own way in the end." – from a March 1982 European Council meeting.


Footnote: What I detest, is not her, but the cheering of her death:
http://sotontab.co.uk/2013/04/08/nus-applaude-death-of-the-late-maragret-thatcher/

That sickens me, even though the NUS President Liam Burns gave this statement on the matter later, which of course was forced, is just utter crap!
Whether you liked her, loathed her, detested her, under no circumstances should someone cheer her death! That just shows once again human decency and respect failing, big time. :nope:
And that applies to some posts in this thread, mocking her death, albeit veiled, but still mocking it by joking about drinking to her death for example.
Seriously, you may have hated her, hated what she did to your country for those 11 and a half years, but do you really need to disrespect a person's death? Do you?
If you answered yes, then i really wouldn't want to talk to you.

[Tribesman]

She publicly announced she was going to bring down the IRA, and look what happened after that.
Yes, she boosted their support and left her succesor to go crawling for a ceasefire and negotiation while publicly claiming the government would never do such a thing.

[Mork_417]

RIP

[Feuer Frei!]

Yes, she boosted their support and left her succesor to go crawling for a ceasefire and negotiation while publicly claiming the government would never do such a thing.
You snipped the last bit conveniently, which would indicate that i wasn't attempting to get into a discussion about what happened to her successor.

[sidslotm]

To me, she was a great leader. The political midgets of recent years make this clear. I don't understand why she was a devisive figure.

R.I.P.


This morning on the Radio the late Mrs Thatcher was decribed as this Nations greatest leader since the 40s. Interesting. In this age of self, I can only assume she had the strength of character to put her Country before her own personal interests, ultimately making her a servant.

The greatest amoung you will always be a servant, read this somewhere. :yeah:

[Sammi79]

I agree about cheering her death being at the very least distasteful, who was it said, 'I will mourn the loss of a thousand lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.' ? On the other hand distasteful doesn't even come close to some of the things she did to a large proportion of British people and a significant number of Argentinian boys. So now I copy pasta, as my views are practically identical and he shares my name;

Thatcher is remembered as The Iron Lady only because she possessed completely negative traits such as persistent stubbornness and a determined refusal to listen to others.

Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the Ivory Trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own Cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone - and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press.

Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes. She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a Prime Minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it.

Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity.
MORRISSEY.

[mookiemookie]

And that applies to some posts in this thread, mocking her death, albeit veiled, but still mocking it by joking about drinking to her death for example.
Seriously, you may have hated her, hated what she did to your country for those 11 and a half years, but do you really need to disrespect a person's death? Do you?
If you answered yes, then i really wouldn't want to talk to you.

Death isn't anything special. It happens to everyone. It doesn't grant someone mythical status. It doesn't confer some air of invulnerability. Death doesn't make one immune from criticism.

"All men have an emotion to kill; when they strongly dislike some one they involuntarily wish he was dead. I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction." - Clarence Darrow

[Feuer Frei!]

Death isn't anything special. It happens to everyone. It doesn't grant someone mythical status. It doesn't confer some air of invulnerability. Death doesn't make one immune from criticism.

Well, you're stating the obvious. However, does the obvious excuse or justify those of us, and i use the term 'us' as in people in general, who take it upon themselves to show delight, jubilation, cheerful expressions, mocking and all sorts of generally-happy attitudes and taking great pleasure by showing those actions at the death of her?
I would imagine and certainly hope that some of us have morals, dignity and respect, which of course not everyone has.

Show some tact, show some respect, show some dignity, don't become the same as the louts from the NSA in Britain, or indeed the numerous party-revellers who on Monday 'celebrated' her death, a human being's death by making asses of themselves. Oh, and injuring 6 policemen in the process.
Fools!

[Nippelspanner]

Fools!

Nuff' said.

[Tribesman]

You snipped the last bit conveniently, which would indicate that i wasn't attempting to get into a discussion about what happened to her successor.
Would like to deal with your whole comment?
The IRA bombed the conference and kept on bombing people till Britain started talking to them, then when the talks were not going their way they bombed some more to get the talks moving again.
every time a ceasefire was announced it wasn't the union flag or the red hand of ulster the celebratory crowds out on the streets were waving was it.
So what happened after that? now we have Unionist on the streets shooting at and bombing British police because......the fenians lost a vote on flags:doh:

I had the misfortune today to be stuck with a hardcore fenian idiot for nearly 2 hours at work this morning.
His appraisal of Thatcher as Prime Minister. "the best thing the Brits did for the IRA since Bloody Sunday":hmmm:

However, does the obvious excuse or justify those of us, and i use the term 'us' as in people in general, who take it upon themselves to show delight, jubilation, cheerful expressions, mocking and all sorts of generally-happy attitudes and taking great pleasure by showing those actions at the death of her?

With a figure as devisive as her there can only be one expected outcome on the announcement of her demise.
Though I was surprised the Daily Telegraph had to shut down its comments page due to the sheer volume of celebratory posts.

I think the sad legacy of Maggie is that those things which she held the strongest views on preserving or building are the things which untimately she set in chain the destruction of through her short sighted ideologicly driven passion.

Edit to add.
BTW. your comments on Liverpool, for a new perspective on her "cut funding" idea might I suggest reading her cabinet papers which were released to the public in January. Genuinely crazy ideas she had.

[AVGWarhawk]

It doesn't grant someone mythical status.

It did for this guy:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/12/19/1324294076699/Kim-Jong-il-006.jpg

[mookiemookie]

He was born under a double rainbow, a new star appeared in the sky and the season changed from winter to spring. He was already mythical. Gosh, don't you know ANYTHING!? :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

He was born under a double rainbow, a new star appeared in the sky and the season changed from winter to spring. He was already mythical. Gosh, don't you know ANYTHING!? :O:

You forgot to add his awesome round of golf! As well as his bowling! :03:

[Jimbuna]

She was a decisive figure because she had a rugged individualism, looking after self interests, rather than being communitarian, she crushed trade unionism, miners, cut funding to Liverpool, she was detested by many.
She stirred up British nationalism with the Faulklands victory. And she was brought down by her own party.
She publicly announced she was going to bring down the IRA, and look what happened after that. The IRA bombed her hotel room in Brighton.
She was once asked what she changed about British politics. She answered: "everything". Modest? Yes, but she was right.

Margaret Thatcher stuck to the practice of saying what she meant and meaning what she said. When she said the lady wasn't for turning, she wasn't. When she said the Falklands must be liberated come what may, they were. When she said that people would be allowed to buy their own council houses, they were too. When she told European politicians that she wanted a rebate on the billions Britain overpaid the EEC, she held out till she got one.

She went down fighting for her principles; no one was in any doubt about what she stood for or what she believed in. You might not have agreed with her, but few deny that hers was a towering political honesty of the kind hardly ever heard from today's so-called leaders.

Margaret Thatcher was responsible for financial deregulation, getting rid of Britain's exchange controls.
She pissed people off, ruined peoples lives. But she stuck up for what she believed in, adapted to new situations and represented the country with an Iron Fist.

As you can see, pros and cons, she was detested, and liked.

Here are some quotes from her:

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope."
– on her election as Prime Minister in 1979

"If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something done, ask a woman." – speech to National Union of Townswomen’s Guilds Conference on May 20, 1965

"I am extraordinarily patient — provided I get my own way in the end." – from a March 1982 European Council meeting.


Footnote: What I detest, is not her, but the cheering of her death:
http://sotontab.co.uk/2013/04/08/nus-applaude-death-of-the-late-maragret-thatcher/

That sickens me, even though the NUS President Liam Burns gave this statement on the matter later, which of course was forced, is just utter crap!
Whether you liked her, loathed her, detested her, under no circumstances should someone cheer her death! That just shows once again human decency and respect failing, big time. :nope:
And that applies to some posts in this thread, mocking her death, albeit veiled, but still mocking it by joking about drinking to her death for example.
Seriously, you may have hated her, hated what she did to your country for those 11 and a half years, but do you really need to disrespect a person's death? Do you?
If you answered yes, then i really wouldn't want to talk to you.

I would say that is a fair and balanced post.

Though plenty will be jumping for joy, she was still a mother and grandmother. There's a family grieving out there and that should be respected, just as all those on here would like to happen to their families at a time like this.

Once the dust has settled, then people can dissect her political beliefs and life and whether she was a saint or sinner. I have my own feelings on this having been a serving police officer during her tenure as well as during the miners strike and also being a fully paid up member of the Labour Party.

Right at this moment we can all hopefully come to the one conclusion, love her or hate her, her family should be respected in their grief.

My appreciation to you all for not derailing this thread and adhering to the wishes of the OP.

[BossMark]

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?

[ABBAFAN]

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?

Interesting idea. :hmmm: Though it won't be a state one but a ceremonial one.

She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone - and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press.

Well So what if she was outside the exclusion zone the Argentines didn't even recognise. The point of the EZ was that all vessels within it would be regarded as hostile not necessarily that those outside would be exempt from military action as military units in a war that that country did start.
The ship could have altered course in 30 seconds and was part of a pincer move being put together. This is the only incident in any war I have read about where the losing side complains it was not fair their ship was sunk.
Warships fight in wars and can sometimes be sunk in them.

[Sammi79]

Well So what if she was outside the exclusion zone the Argentines didn't even recognise. The point of the EZ was that all vessels within it would be regarded as hostile not necessarily that those outside would be exempt from military action as military units in a war that that country did start.
The ship could have altered course in 30 seconds and was part of a pincer move being put together. This is the only incident in any war I have read about where the losing side complains it was not fair their ship was sunk.
Warships fight in wars and can sometimes be sunk in them.

Agreed for the most part.

although considering the advantage the British fleet enjoyed in terms of large modern naval vessels and nuclear submarines vs antiquated WWII cruisers, they could have waited until she did actually change course and the alleged pincer movement was confirmed. While she was attacked there was still the possibility that she was sailing for port. A course change would have been acknowledged within a minute or 2. Maggie should have declared war first, obviously, as should Argentina once Belgrano was sunk in international waters.

From a military point of view however I think the tactical pre-emptive action was certainly sound.

[Feuer Frei!]

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?

Considering? There was never any considering done. Not officially anyways.
It will be a ceremonial funeral, 1 step down from a state funeral.
She, whilst alive, rejected a state funeral and a fly-by, saying it was a waste of money.
Having said that, the difference between a state and ceremonial funeral are not overly different from each other.
1 difference being that gun carriage during a state funeral is drawn by Royal Navy ratings rather than artillery horses.

[Jimbuna]

Considering? There was never any considering done. Not officially anyways.
It will be a ceremonial funeral, 1 step down from a state funeral.
She, whilst alive, rejected a state funeral and a fly-by, saying it was a waste of money.
Having said that, the difference between a state and ceremonial funeral are not overly different from each other.
1 difference being that gun carriage during a state funeral is drawn by Royal Navy ratings rather than artillery horses.

I think it was wise for the eventual outcome to be a private cremation...all things considered.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Question for the Brits in this thread that saw the Streep biopic:

How good was her accent? Do you think she "got" Thatcher?

[Egan]

Question for the Brits in this thread that saw the Streep biopic:

How good was her accent? Do you think she "got" Thatcher?

It was alright. The girls who used to do her for 'Spitting Image' were better, though.

[Jimbuna]

Question for the Brits in this thread that saw the Streep biopic:

How good was her accent? Do you think she "got" Thatcher?

The closest I've seen but then again I never actually met her in person/up close.

[ABBAFAN]

Agreed for the most part.

although considering the advantage the British fleet enjoyed in terms of large modern naval vessels and nuclear submarines vs antiquated WWII cruisers, they could have waited until she did actually change course and the alleged pincer movement was confirmed. While she was attacked there was still the possibility that she was sailing for port. A course change would have been acknowledged within a minute or 2. Maggie should have declared war first, obviously, as should Argentina once Belgrano was sunk in international waters.

From a military point of view however I think the tactical pre-emptive action was certainly sound.

Well the fact that the Args deployed oldie warships is not an excuse for them not to be attacked. The Belgrano's escorts had exocet I believe and her own guns outranged any the British had so she was a serious threat. If you go and attck someone more heavily armed than yourself you are only bringing their inevitable response upon yourself.

[Buddahaid]

Why are they considering a State funeral for Thatcher? Surely it should be privatised?



A few years ago it was decided by the government to spend £2-3 million for her funeral which is standard for any british pm.

"For £2 million you can give every Scotsman a shovel to dig her a personal tunnel to hell!"
Frankie Boyle

[BossMark]

Just bloody noticed how the hell is it sir mark thatcher now I wonder which daft sod made him that and what the hell for I mean all he did was.........................:nope:

[Tribesman]

Just bloody noticed how the hell is it sir mark thatcher now
Its a coup

[raymond6751]

In times of trial any nation needs an effective leader. To be one means to be unpopular with some. Ms Thatcher had difficult choices to make, and made them.

[Aces]

The nation is being told to show respect and to treat her with dignity in death, a courtesy that she didn't extend to so many during her life when she robbed them of theirs.

[Bubblehead1980]

The nation is being told to show respect and to treat her with dignity in death, a courtesy that she didn't extend to so many during her life when she robbed them of theirs.

Wow, typical.The woman did what had to be done and was a great leader.She put the unions in their place.Need more like her!

[BossMark]

Wow, typical.The woman did what had to be done and was a great leader.She put the unions in their place.Need more like her!
I don't often pray but if there was more like her then god help us....

Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.

[Herr-Berbunch]

My goodness, I've just agreed with Bubble head!

[Aces]

I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

I know. To be honest I hadn't actually read what Bubbles was replying to, just shocked by agreeing with what he wrote. I wasn't being anti to whatever you wrote. :D

[Aces]

I know. To be honest I hadn't actually read what Bubbles was replying to, just shocked by agreeing with what he wrote. I wasn't being anti to whatever you wrote. :D


Absolutely no offense taken mate :)

Cheers

Aces

[JU_88]

She hasn't been in power for more than two decades, so politically speaking, her death is totally irrelevant right now. As usual its alot of media fuelled hysterical sensationalist dross and its very boring already.

I can appreciate both the possitive and negative assesments of her time as PM. I'm not going to mourn her as I cant say i was ever a fan and I didn't know her personally - and Im not going to celebrate either because it is pointless and unconstructive. So us tax payers are paying for her funeral, I dont care, we pay alot more for Banker bail outs, MPs expenses, The Royals, Welfare, The legal fees of criminals, etc.
The Rightwingers are using this get all sentimental, nostalgic and wave their Union Jacks as if the 1980's was a really GREAT decade, er....in which case their memory is very 'selective'.
Lefties are celebrating as if its some kind of major victory (when its nothing of the sort) and are really just using it as a juvenille excuse to get drunk and dance around like idiots in Trafalgar square.
Lefties and Righties.... You know, I actually dont know which side I hate more. To me Left and Right just represents crap and failed political ideas from last century.

Anyway, back to the point, Yes the Iron lady/witch is dead. Now is there any chance we (Britain) can get back to moaning about suff which might actually be relevant for 2013 and beyond?... please?

[Jimbuna]

She hasn't been in power for more than two decades, so politically speaking, her death is totally irrelevant right now. As usual its alot of media fuelled hysterical sensationalist dross and its very boring already.

I can appreciate both the possitive and negative assesments of her time as PM. I'm not going to mourn her as I cant say i was ever a fan and I didn't know her personally - and Im not going to celebrate either because it is pointless and unconstructive. So us tax payers are paying for her funeral, I dont care, we pay alot more for Banker bail outs, MPs expenses, The Royals, Welfare, The legal fees of criminals, etc.
The Rightwingers are using this get all sentimental, nostalgic and wave their Union Jacks as if the 1980's was a really GREAT decade, er....in which case their memory is very 'selective'.
Lefties are celebrating as if its some kind of major victory (when its nothing of the sort) and are really just using it as a juvenille excuse to get drunk and dance around like idiots in Trafalgar square.
Lefties and Righties.... You know, I actually dont know which side I hate more. To me Left and Right just represents crap and failed political ideas from last century.

Anyway, back to the point, Yes the Iron lady/witch is dead. Now is there any chance we (Britain) can get back to moaning about suff which might actually be relevant for 2013 and beyond?... please?

Fair points :yep:

[JU_88]

Just noticed I reached 3000 posts. Neal every time we hit a 1000 posts can we have this sound played please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plHh6nEEDOs
:O:

[Sailor Steve]

Now is there any chance we (Britain) can get back to moaning about suff which might actually be relevant for 2013 and beyond?... please?
Oh, come on. Be reasonable. Over here we're still refighting a war that ended almost 150 years ago. I don't suppose you still argue whether the Cavaliers or the Roundheads were in the right? Henry or Richard? Harald or Harold or William? This is within our own memory. Of course it's worth fighting over! :O:

And then there's the one we share in common: George and George. :D

[JU_88]

Oh, come on. Be reasonable. Over here we're still refighting a war that ended almost 150 years ago. I don't suppose you still argue whether the Cavaliers or the Roundheads were in the right? Henry or Richard? Harald or Harold or William? This is within our own memory. Of course it's worth fighting over! :O:

And then there's the one we share in common: George and George. :D

Oh no Steve, I can't be dealing with pre-20th century history, wasn't it all just a load of beards, knights, wizards, silly hats and Plesiosaurs before 1900?
Actually Plesiosaurs are good, I think the problem is that we dont have those anymore, i hope nessie is a Plesiosaur... although shes a thousand times more likley to be seal/boat/gull/wind/driftwood/clockwork submarine/Scottish bloke who needs to pay his morgage. But if a Plesiosaur did crawl out of the Loch tomorrow, everyone would forget about this Thatcher nonsense pretty quick :O:

[Tribesman]

Now is there any chance we (Britain) can get back to moaning about suff which might actually be relevant for 2013 and beyond?...
Good point, where do you want to start?
Bedroom tax, rail franchise, utilities companies, unemployment, decline of industry, preservation of the union, arms scandals, corruption, credit fueled bubbles, falklands, the disabled, privatisation, affording Trident, getting rid of the NHS......

[Feuer Frei!]

Good point, where do you want to start?
Bedroom tax, rail franchise, utilities companies, unemployment, decline of industry, preservation of the union, arms scandals, corruption, credit fueled bubbles, falklands, the disabled, privatisation, affording Trident, getting rid of the NHS......

Wait, you missed the biggest one of them all...
Immigration.

[Tribesman]

Wait, you missed the biggest one of them all...
Immigration.
Immigration is just dog whistle politics for people who want to find someone easy to blame.
All the issues I listed are ongoing problems with things Maggies fans claim she fixed while immigration reads exactly the same as it does since Elizabeth I claimed that her nation was being over run by blacks a couple of hundred years ago.

[Betonov]

Unlike our PM, at least she knew how to speak English

[JU_88]

Good point, where do you want to start?
Bedroom tax, rail franchise, utilities companies, unemployment, decline of industry, preservation of the union, arms scandals, corruption, credit fueled bubbles, falklands, the disabled, privatisation, affording Trident, getting rid of the NHS......

Anyone of the above, I really dont care :03:

[BossMark]

Big Ben to be silent for Baroness Thatcher's funeral

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22157022


Now there's showing respect for someone's funeral, but 10 million for her funeral and now this its way over the top.


But I will say no more on the matter as I promised Jim that I would behave myself on the subject.

[Tribesman]

Big Ben to be silent for Baroness Thatcher's funeral


They didn't want anyone to hear it go ding-dong.

[JU_88]

They didn't want anyone to hear it go ding-dong.

:haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

They didn't want anyone to hear it go ding-dong.

I'm not sensing the lover here.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I'm sure you know how blue I am by now, but that's one of the funniest things I've read Tribesman. :har:

I like other celeb death jokes and I'm not being hypocritical now.

[Catfish]

I did not like her point of view, or at least what she publicly said, and did (you seldomly know what people really think, when it comes to power, and influence)
When i was in England in the 198ies it was hard to find an average english citizen who did not dislike what she did, or her. There were songs everywhere which made fun of or condemned her, one of it i remember being the 'Thatcher-snatcher'.
I am not very good in british politics though.

My mother liked her for her wardrobe, and make-up :hmm2:

RIP, and don't come back in another incarnation.

[Feuer Frei!]

Well, from an Australian perspective we could certainly use a Margaret Thatcher-type leader to shake up and stomp the Unions. Unions here have way too much power.
But, i'm dreaming. Certainly isn't going to happen with Labour in power. Since the Unions were a design of the Australian Labour Party.

[Herr-Berbunch]

There were songs everywhere which made fun of or condemned her, one of it i remember being the 'Thatcher-snatcher'.


That one would be Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher - from when she removed free milk for seven to 11 year olds in the early '70s.

I remember drinking warm, clotting milk out of bottles that'd been in the playground's sun all morning :Kaleun_Sick: - I wish she'd removed it for all. It put me off drinking milk until well into my 20s, and even now it has to be ice cold or I find it repulsive.

[Spoon 11th]

I heard people complain about the cost of the funeral. Some grey bloke has a thing to say about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE1qJsFV8vI

[Herr-Berbunch]

I heard people complain about the cost of the funeral. Some grey bloke has a thing to say about that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE1qJsFV8vI

:har: Thanks, subscribed to his channel now.

[STEED]

I'm ignoring tomorrow.

[BossMark]

I'm ignoring tomorrow.
Me too

[Herr-Berbunch]

I just hope there's no trouble from the people claiming the funerals too expensive, only to cost a fortune in vandalism and the justice system.

[Tribesman]

I just hope there's no trouble from the people claiming the funerals too expensive, only to cost a fortune in vandalism and the justice system.
That was all sorted. The multi millionaire tax dodging convict decided that as people who pay tax were stumping up the millions in cash for his family occasion he would throw in a few quid if there was any additional costs incurred.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The multi millionaire tax dodging convict

You'd think he would've looked a bit happier, what with the inheritence due (I'd laugh if it all goes to cats) and the fact he's not getting banged up whilst he's banged up. :hmmm:

[Tribesman]

You'd think he would've looked a bit happier, what with the inheritence due
Well one must weigh up the future.
The Americans have been clamping down on bribery, Mid east and N. African friends are not having a very good time of it, Mann has hung him out to dry regarding anyone involved in future "charity" work, tax havens are declaring him persona non grata, the costa del crime just ain't what it used to be and now his direct access to political influence has gone.
If only he was more like his sister eh?:D

[Herr-Berbunch]

If only he was more like his racist sister eh?:D

Fixed that for you. :03:

(for those who don't know just look up Carol Thatcher Tsonga on Google)

[Jimbuna]

Looks like the funeral went smoothly, all things considered.

No doubt a cause of disappointment to some.

[Tribesman]

Fixed that for you. :03:

:rotfl2:
Well she takes after her parents there:yep:

[Oberon]

'Timing is everything in rolling news'

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/6246/bidtgcjccam5f0y.jpg

[BossMark]

^^^
Gideon must have seen that headline :haha:

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/rothwellwhite1/slide_292480_2348486_free_zpsac190b19.jpg

[Cybermat47]

'Timing is everything in rolling news'

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/6246/bidtgcjccam5f0y.jpg

Based on the BBC's track record with Baroness Thatcher, I think they got the timing spot-on.

Speaking of which, perhaps now would be a good time to watch Doctor Who: The Happiness Patrol?

[Bubblehead1980]

RIP Lady Thatcher, I am sorry the US Senate is controlled by the hooligans who follow a dangerous, idiotic ideology you fought (and defeated for a term but like herpes, they come back) and we did not honor your properly.