Why?

[J0313]

Have you ever noticed that the AI U-Boats all have 20mm Orlikon guns on their turms? And some of them have these big goofy looking 5 inch, or whatever caliber, guns on deck. I wonder why this was never addressed before by a modder?

[GoldenRivet]

well what mods are you using?

GWX from the sound of it.

if so, this has been addressed by modders. if memory serves me, in the stock version of SH3 any AI u-boats had no watch crew visible and no armament other than the aa gun (ie no deck gun at all)

because the u-boat deck gun is specific to the player sub it couldnt only be a work around of putting the small 5" gun in its place for AI boats.

someone else who knows more might better explain, but i believe that this is correct. so in essence, modders are the reason the AI boats even appear in the campaign and have ANY kind of gun on them at all

[J0313]

well what mods are you using?

GWX from the sound of it.

if so, this has been addressed by modders. if memory serves me, in the stock version of SH3 any AI u-boats had no watch crew visible and no armament other than the aa gun (ie no deck gun at all)

because the u-boat deck gun is specific to the player sub it couldnt only be a work around of putting the small 5" gun in its place for AI boats.

someone else who knows more might better explain, but i believe that this is correct. so in essence, modders are the reason the AI boats even appear in the campaign and have ANY kind of gun on them at all

Well than why didnt they put the correct types on the AI boats? Do you even know the difference between an Orlikon and a Flugabwehrkanone 30.

[GoldenRivet]

i think it was a hard coded issue for which there was no work around.

its been years since i gave it any thought, but i think the flak guns and the deck gun were only modeled for the player boat by ubisoft when the game was designed, so the modders had to wing it when modding the game and put the closest AI modeled gun that was available.

im just saying originally there was *nothing there.

what we have now is considerably better than nothing.

feel free to fix it.

[RustySubmarine]

Never really took much notice of AI boats as you cant hunt a convoy with them as a wolf pack, so apart from just physically coming into contact with them whilst on patrol now and again, they are not of much benefit as far as working with them is concerned. It would be nice if you could actually stalk a convoy with them or pass messages between them and yourself and be part of a wolf pack action. This may be possible with multiplayer, but I never get involved with this, as I prefer to act as a lone wolf.

[flag4]

Well than why didnt they put the correct types on the AI boats? Do you even know the difference between an Orlikon and a Flugabwehrkanone 30.

:huh:.....?......:timeout:

[Madox58]

When those 'lazy' modders were spending most of thier free time, working for free, on a HUGE mod, combineing mods by so many modders, into a stable and simple package, that was planned to be free for everyone, some things were not as important to work on.

There may, and I repeat, there MAY have been a point in time this was considered by GWX Devs. I know there's alot that was considered and rejected because of time and Skilled Man Power shortages.
There was also a lack of easy to use Tools then makeing development that much more difficult and time intensive.

Use S3D to fix this if it really bothers you. Shouldn't take more then an hour if you know what to do and how to do it.
:yep:

[J0313]

When those 'lazy' modders were spending most of thier free time, working for free, on a HUGE mod, combineing mods by so many modders, into a stable and simple package, that was planned to be free for everyone, some things were not as important to work on.

There may, and I repeat, there MAY have been a point in time this was considered by GWX Devs. I know there's alot that was considered and rejected because of time and Skilled Man Power shortages.
There was also a lack of easy to use Tools then makeing development that much more difficult and time intensive.

Use S3D to fix this if it really bothers you. Shouldn't take more then an hour if you know what to do and how to do it.
:yep:

It was just a simple question and Golden Rivet wants to sound condescending. I wasnt implying that modders were "LAZY", so I am sorry that you took it that way! I dont really know anything about modding and frankly I wouldn't even attempt it. I just wanted to know why the wrong guns are on them and if anyone had even noticed or cared.

[GoldenRivet]

It was just a simple question and Golden Rivet wants to sound condescending. I wasnt implying that modders were "LAZY", so I am sorry that you took it that way! I dont really know anything about modding and frankly I wouldn't even attempt it. I just wanted to know why the wrong guns are on them and if anyone had even noticed or cared.

no intent to be condescending

just a counterpoint to the following

Well than why didnt they put the correct types on the AI boats? Do you even know the difference between an Orlikon and a Flugabwehrkanone 30.

i didnt mod the game, i just play it, its not my fault they couldnt put the 8.8 gun on the AI boats.

like i said, originally they had nothing, just an AA gun with no visible watch crew / gun crews - it was a major event just to have AI u-boats that would show up, let alone engage the enemy

I was just answering your question... whether or not i know what sort of gun should be there has no bearing (yes... most players know it is the incorrect gun) but the deck gun as far as i am aware is part of the player boat model and was not originally included on AI boats.

[Madox58]

It was just a simple question and Golden Rivet wants to sound condescending. I wasnt implying that modders were "LAZY", so I am sorry that you took it that way! I dont really know anything about modding and frankly I wouldn't even attempt it. I just wanted to know why the wrong guns are on them and if anyone had even noticed or cared.

GR was answering to the best of his knowledge, and quite nicely.
Your responce to him was 'a bit' overboard.
IMO.

I threw the 'lazy' in as a responce to a really uncalled for comment on your part.

So let's all call it all a 'boo boo' and be friends again.
:D

To give you (and others) better insight?

To convert the Player Deck Guns for AI usage would require exporting the 3D models and building a whole new AI Gun.
Not to hard to do with S3D now.
Then you would need to do new animations for the AI gun crews.
It would be another 'the gun crew don't move right' thread if you didn't!

VERY few Modders have ever done new animations of 'people' for SH3.
The first I am aware of, and saw, was by Ref during development of GWX.
Don't recall exactly which version but I'm thinking 2?
:hmmm:
(This was before S3D was coded to do the same.
I still have Ref's original program never released except to GWX Dev's.
Ref, DivingDuck (Or Slacker as I call him), and I spent MANY, MANY, hours working on the animations problem back then.)

Those animations, due to problems with the Unit intended to use them, never saw release.
We determined that the time to solve the problem could not meet our deadline for release of the newest GWX.
Which was in final release testing.
Much like the original SH3 Dev's?
Plans for many things had to be excluded.

We were also working on and adjusting many other features at the SAME time!
Many of those did make it in release and stand as some of the best Modding to roll down the pike for SH3!

Not just work by GWX Dev's, but others also!

It was a fascinating time!
One I'm proud to have been a part of.
:yep:

Now a simple quiz.
What was the First released mod with animated people not in the original SH3?
:03:

[HW3]

I'm not sure of the name of the mod but, was it the one that put people on the docks?

:subsim:

[Madox58]

Animations of dock people are standard to SH3.
It has to be completely new animations not in stock SH3.
:03:

[HW3]

I wasn't sure, never played stock.:hmmm:

:subsim:

[J0313]

I never played stock so that stumps me as well.

[Madox58]

Come on you Guys are survivors, right?

I know you know the answer you just don't realise the history behind things so 2 + 2 ain't adding up for you right now.
:D

I gave that to you in a few ways already!
:03:

[HW3]

Oh yeah, the swimming survivors of the ship sinking! I just came across them again in Urfischs_ModStrike_Beta1. Or is it the rowers of the life rafts.

:subsim:

[GoldenRivet]

I was on my way to post the rowers and lifeboat people. :03:

i was too slow though, wasnt even that sure either