someone please explain the 9mm ammo shortage

[Webster]

can someone explain a good reason as to why there is NO 9mm ammo to be found anywhere?

did aliens come down from space and steal it all then blow up every piece of 9mm ammo machinery in existence?

I see NO reason any ammo manufacturer couldn't flood the market with 9mm ammo if they wanted to and I also see no reason why they would purposely not have ammo for sale to meet customer demands because they lose out on making that money.

with 9mm being THE most common ammo out there is every bullet made going straight to police and military sources and nothing for civilians?

I just don't get it, any product in such high demand is a fortune waiting to be made by anyone willing to do what it takes to manufacture the product people want so whats the problem?

as far as I know there isn't a shortage of materials to make all the components so is Obama confiscating all the 9mm ammo that hits the market?

do ammunition manufacturers don't remember how to make 9mm ammo or maybe the one and only 9mm ammo making machine is broken and the parts for it are in north korea? yea that must be it.

seriously I could see a temporary ammo shortage, they happen all the time but after a few months they double the output of ammo and all the shelves are once again full of ammo but not this time so whats so different now?

[Madox58]

Now that question should open a whole slew of really crazy answers!
:har:

I expect the "FEMA is buying it all up to use to terminate U.S. citizens"
to be the number one answer.
:haha:

[Red October1984]

For the same reason that you can't find .223 ammo

This reason....his name is Barack Obama. :up:

[Madox58]

This reason....his name is Barack Obama. :up:
So what does he want with all that ammo?
:hmmm:

[Subnuts]

So what does he want with all that ammo?
:hmmm:

In case the Fox News crew gets too uppity during the next press conference.

Seriously though, if you can't find any 9mm ammo, just buy some .38 caliber ammo and sand them down so they don't jam in the chamber. Or buy .32 caliber ammo and wrap each bullet in a couple layers of aluminum foil so they don't rattle around too much.

Signed,
The world's least responsible gun owner.

[Red October1984]

So what does he want with all that ammo?
:hmmm:

To build DHS into an army in case the American citizens revolt against him

[yubba]

I was up to my elbows in 9mm brass a couple days ago,,if you haven't got it by now you are to late,, With Uncle Joe running off at the mouth about a new world order, we'll see another run on guns, I was just saying the other day ' "I wonder who will say something stupid" ...

[Oberon]

To build DHS into an army in case the American citizens revolt against him

Don't forget the FEMA death camps! All those coffins! :yep:

[Red October1984]

Don't forget the FEMA death camps! All those coffins! :yep:

It isn't FEMA Death Camps i'm worried about. It's the DHS Holocaust.

[Subnuts]

So wait...

Is it the Department of Homeless Services, Department of Human Services, Department of Health Services, or the Department of Homeland Security forming a private army and marching people into concentration camps? :hmmm:

[Platapus]

There is a cost for a manufacturer to suddenly increase production. The ammo manufacturers may have determined that the additional sales (if any) would sufficiently offset these production costs.

Some people are choosing to panic and stockpile ammo. This results in a temporary increase in the demand. But does it result in a large enough and long enough increase to justify the additional costs of increasing production? Production is not free and a successful manufacturer has just enough manufacturing capability to handle expected orders.

[Madox58]

With MINOR variations?
Post #2 is winning.
:har:

So. Wait till the culling starts, drop a few of those DHS Sons-a-whatevers, and take all the free ammo you want.
:D

What they gonna do? Kill you?
Oh.... Wait!...... That's what they was gonna do anyway, right?
:shucks:

Give me a break! How many remember the bunkers sold back in the 50's and 60's?
Cause the government scared everyone with drills and all that crap back then.
:nope:

Now you have others doing the scare tactic stuff for what end?
To save you?
WRONG answer!!
Look at the bucks they suck out of you. It ain't free folks!
And do you think that every bunker or prepper would be ignored IF a true purge were coming?
You'd be my first targets then I'd hunt the 'runners' down with little problems.

[yubba]

well sooner or later vendors will quit selling to the constitutionally impared.

[Oberon]

It isn't FEMA Death Camps i'm worried about. It's the DHS Holocaust.

I think the DHS Holocaust rent the FEMA Death Camps on weekdays, and the Lizardman changelings rent them at weekends. It's good for the US economy. :yep:

[Oberon]

well sooner or later vendors will quit selling to the constitutionally impared.

Well, it's sooner than you think, I haven't seen Vendor on these forums for a while. :o

[Madox58]

I'm pretty sure the LizardMen can't occupy the areas where the FEMA Camps are located.
:hmmm:

Something to do with the lines of power of the Earth jamming thier shape shifting maybe?

It woud be the Greys that rent on the weekends.
Mostly to remove the bodies DHS left behind which are removed to the Underground bunkers for the LizardMen to consume.

[Red October1984]

I think the DHS Holocaust rent the FEMA Death Camps on weekdays, and the Lizardman changelings rent them at weekends. It's good for the US economy. :yep:

Nah. You see, they used to do that.

Then the Illinois Neo-Nazis decided to try and use them on wednesday nights to train the Neo-SS. FEMA and DHS decided that too many death groups were using the camps and now we have the leader of the Illinois Neo-Nazis as president. Next, he builds up DHS so he can exterminate US citizens on weekdays and the Neo-SS get to guard the camps. The Lizardman Changelings run the kitchen and the Anti-Gun Campaign with the INN and Barack Obama. FEMA is responsible for keeping this entire thing under wraps and camp staff.

We wonder why Chicago is a terribly dangerous place now.... :nope:

[Madox58]

Links?

[Red October1984]

Links?

Here:

FEMA (http://www.fema.gov/)

DHS (http://www.dhs.gov/)

:up: :salute:

[Madox58]

You do realise that a RED sticker is gonna be placed on your mailbox or close to your house so they know who to take first right?
:haha:
Ask yubba about those.
:D

[Oberon]

Nah. You see, they used to do that.

Then the Illinois Neo-Nazis decided to try and use them on wednesday nights to train the Neo-SS. FEMA and DHS decided that too many death groups were using the camps and now we have the leader of the Illinois Neo-Nazis as president. Next, he builds up DHS so he can exterminate US citizens on weekdays and the Neo-SS get to guard the camps. The Lizardman Changelings run the kitchen and the Anti-Gun Campaign with the INN and Barack Obama. FEMA is responsible for keeping this entire thing under wraps and camp staff.

We wonder why Chicago is a terribly dangerous place now.... :nope:

That explains everything! :o

Quick! Rather than use a reputable news source to spread this shocking revelation, let's use a website known for whacky conspiracy theories, thus completely invalidating our original message! :yep:

[Madox58]

Quick! Rather than use a reputable news source to spread this shocking revelation, let's use a website known for whacky conspiracy theories, thus completely invalidating our original message! :yep:


WHAT?! And completely hand-over to whacko's what we worked so hard to uncover?
:o
You wearing some of those Bat-wings also?
:haha:
:03:

[Oberon]

WHAT?! And completely hand-over to whacko's what we worked so hard to uncover?
:o
You wearing some of those Bat-wings also?
:haha:
:03:

I've been discovered! And just as I was about to plant the smoking bomb as evidence!

I must flee!

http://i.imgur.com/LptQy.gif

[Madox58]

So we have you oh Masked one!
http://news.discovery.com/human/life/british-batman-unmasked-130306.htm

:haha:

[Red October1984]

That explains everything! :o

Quick! Rather than use a reputable news source to spread this shocking revelation, let's use a website known for whacky conspiracy theories, thus completely invalidating our original message! :yep:

I'll get my history teacher....

[Red October1984]

You do realise that a RED sticker is gonna be placed on your mailbox or close to your house so they know who to take first right?
:haha:
Ask yubba about those.
:D

Let them try. It'll just become a National News Story for months until we finally impeach Obama for attacking US citizens.

And if they use a drone, oh well... :salute: Nice knowing you guys.

[Skybird]

9mm is for Sissies too afraid to get closer. Real men grind their axe instead. :arrgh!:

[Oberon]

Let them try. It'll just become a National News Story for months until we finally impeach Obama for attacking US citizens.

And if they use a drone, oh well... :salute: Nice knowing you guys.

Ah, but you'll suddenly be found to have a Mexican great-grandfather that you never knew about and thus be sent to the FEMA death camps.

[Madox58]

You may end up with a PINK sticker instead.
Those people are hauled off and used for breeding.
Uhh... LizardMen breed with Males of our species by the way.
:D
Enjoy!
:haha:

[Red October1984]

Ah, but you'll suddenly be found to have a Mexican great-grandfather that you never knew about and thus be sent to the FEMA death camps.

Ah...but you see, all of my great grandparents are dead. I've already looked into the possibility and I have concluded that this possibility is not possible.

Plus, there's no way i'm related to a Mexican. I'm that Nuke-Submarine Pale White Color. :) FEMA Death Camps don't worry me. Why? Because you can take a course and be certified in the Incident Command System online. How do I know this? Because I am currently in the process of becoming ICS Certified.

I know exactly how they operate and how to get into ICS. :yep: :up:

Looks like I'm one step ahead of FEMA

[Madox58]

You are now on Yubba's hit list my friend.
:har:

[Red October1984]

And what does that ensue? :shucks:

[Stealhead]

The "shortage" of 9x19mm ammo is due simply to the fact that it is one of the most commonly used calibers of pistol ammo.Ammo producers are profitable enterprise.

The second reason is because ever since Obama has been in office many people fear that guns are going to get banned so they start buying guns .Most of these people do not know much about firearms so they get sold by the guy at the gun store who of course is going to recommend a firearm that uses the most popular(in demand) ammo because he will make more profit.

.223 and 5.56x45mm "rare" for the same reason yet they are still selling 1,200 rounds of it to people who buy an AR. I know a guy that purchased an AK-74 and included in the price 1,000 rounds of 5.45x39mm which is in all reality much less common that .223 or 5.56mm.

[TFatseas]

It's gone because it's being shot through the barrel of my Hi-Power.


Seriously, it seems like everytime I wander into a store they just got a shipment of the stuff.

More for me.

[August]

9mm is for Sissies too afraid to get closer. Real men grind their axe instead. :arrgh!:

Evolved men go with the trusty .45acp and avoid both ends of such silliness. :)

[Madox58]

And TRAINED men drop you at 400+ meters anyway.
:D

[TFatseas]

Evolved men go with the trusty .45acp and avoid both ends of such silliness. :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Flickr_-_~Steve_Z~_-_1971_Browning_Hi_Power_10.jpg/640px-Flickr_-_~Steve_Z~_-_1971_Browning_Hi_Power_10.jpg

:smug:

[Stealhead]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Flickr_-_%7ESteve_Z%7E_-_1971_Browning_Hi_Power_10.jpg/640px-Flickr_-_%7ESteve_Z%7E_-_1971_Browning_Hi_Power_10.jpg

:smug:


Well that was Browning's last design so it is the successor to the M1911.It is all in shot placement and realistically in a combat situation you are going to put two or three rounds into every target 13+1 is better than 7+1 even if the rounds are smaller.I have no problem with 9x19mm rounds.

[Oberon]

Aaah, the .45 and the M1911, fantastic examples of gun design. :yep: Good stoppers, solid, reliable, you can see the ancestry coming down into the design that's stood the test of time. :yep: Well over a hundred years old and still going strong, you can't say that for many weapon designs.

We used the Webley for a while, good weapon but we phased it out in favour of the Browning IIRC. :yep:

Of course, then there's the Lee Enfield, original MLE design in 1895, SMLE design in 1907, and still being used in various hotspots in the world today.

Admittedly though, the Russkies have us beat with the Mosin-Nagant, soldiering on from 1891 to the present day. :o

[TarJak]

So what does he want with all that ammo?
:hmmm:

He's eating it.:O:

[Red October1984]

Of course, then there's the Lee Enfield, original MLE design in 1895, SMLE design in 1907, and still being used in various hotspots in the world today.

The SMLE is a good rifle. Too bad that the .303 Caliber is a major fail. If you can find a box, it's like 32$ a box. There was an Enfield for sale at a local gun shot for 150$ last time I was in there. I don't know if it's still there, but if the ammo was cheaper, I'd like to have it.

Admittedly though, the Russkies have us beat with the Mosin-Nagant, soldiering on from 1891 to the present day. :o

Now we've got one of those. They are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. Mosin-Nagant + Full Metal Jacket + Various Melons = Fun

[Cybermat47]

Someone is stealing our 9mm rounds. While most people are unaware of the impending danger, I am.

I'm Jesse Ventura, and this is a scare tactic to gain power and rake in trillions in profit.

[Cybermat47]

Uhh... LizardMen breed with Males of our species by the way.


Homosexual lizard men are undermining America's Christian-family values.

I'm Jesse Ventura, and this is Conspiracy Theory.

EDIT:

I'm Jesse Ventura, and this is my Furry Theory.

(Warning: Strong language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz8135P2Yts

[em2nought]

If ever there was a shovel ready project in the era of Obama, making ammunition would be it. :D

Too bad he threw our money at that defunct Karma car in$tead.

[Red October1984]

Well, when I finish the FEMA Command System course, I'll be ready.

Me and Yubba will survive. :rock:

[Wolferz]

You do realise that a RED sticker is gonna be placed on your mailbox or close to your house so they know who to take first right?
:haha:
Ask yubba about those.
:D
If they puts one on my mailbox I'll show them a thing or three by peeling it off.:haha:

[Ducimus]

It's really not hard to figure out why you can't find 9MM anywhere, and it's really not that complicated.

Over the last few months, the "Run on the gun stores" is a complete one. Everything firearms related has high demand. Anything that I thought of, hordes of people have already descended upon.

- Go to the local surplus store to pick up an ammo can or three? Check.
They're all sold out.

- Order a new IWB holster? Check. Due to high demand, they're backordered several months.

- Order a new gun safe? Check. Due to high demand, they are backordered for the next year. (thankfully I don't live too far from the factory, or its outlet, so I only have to wait 1 month instead of 1 year)

- Buy Ammo? Check. All sold out.

- How about reloading supplies? Eh, how about that. I do my own reloads.

Get this:

- Small pistol primers? Forget it. Nobody knows when they're getting more in.
- Powder? Forget it. All sold out. Nobody knows when more is coming.
- 115 grain 9mm FMJ bullets? Nope. All sold out. I even checked directly with the manufacturer of my favorite brand. They are back ordered for several months.


Seriously, look at the big picture. 9MM is the most common round used. So Where in the hell do you think it went? It went into the basements, safes, vaults, containers of American's all across the country.

[gimpy117]

"oh god oh no! they're gonna take out guns and then obama is going to rename the US to USSR and make us worship Hitler and Stalin and french food and allah and then we'll all die...so lets buy a whole bunch of ammo and guns while all the ammo companies and bushmaster rub their palms in excitement, and just hope the magnetic repulsion of 10,000 rounds of 9mm can save us from a laser guided bomb or a tank that would in reality be dropped on or driven through your house if there really was an uprising.!!!!!!"

thats pretty much how i see it

[August]

I'm kicking myself I didn't buy a couple thousand rounds of .223 a couple years ago when prices were cheap.

[Ducimus]

"oh god oh no! they're gonna take out guns and then obama is going to rename the US to USSR and make us worship Hitler and Stalin and french food and allah and then we'll all die...so lets buy a whole bunch of ammo and guns while all the ammo companies and bushmaster rub their palms in excitement, and just hope the magnetic repulsion of 10,000 rounds of 9mm can save us from a laser guided bomb or a tank that would in reality be dropped on or driven through your house if there really was an uprising.!!!!!!"

thats pretty much how i see it


Your stereotyping, and your wrong.

Also, the majority of people buying up firearms have been people new to guns. It's not johnny redneck montana militiaman talking to god on a two way radio that's been buying everything up.

[gimpy117]

Your stereotyping, and your wrong.

Also, the majority of people buying up firearms have been people new to guns. It's not johnny redneck montana militiaman talking to god on a two way radio that's been buying everything up.

yeah but they're still freaking out and buying into a trumped up myth perpetuated by conspiracy theorists. they may not actually believe all of what I said, That was in jest and sarcasm, but they still to some extent buy into the myth that all guns wil be taken away and some evil empire bs

[AVGWarhawk]

It's really not hard to figure out why you can't find 9MM anywhere, and it's really not that complicated.

Over the last few months, the "Run on the gun stores" is a complete one. Everything firearms related has high demand. Anything that I thought of, hordes of people have already descended upon.

- Go to the local surplus store to pick up an ammo can or three? Check.
They're all sold out.

- Order a new IWB holster? Check. Due to high demand, they're backordered several months.

- Order a new gun safe? Check. Due to high demand, they are backordered for the next year. (thankfully I don't live too far from the factory, or its outlet, so I only have to wait 1 month instead of 1 year)

- Buy Ammo? Check. All sold out.

- How about reloading supplies? Eh, how about that. I do my own reloads.

Get this:

- Small pistol primers? Forget it. Nobody knows when they're getting more in.
- Powder? Forget it. All sold out. Nobody knows when more is coming.
- 115 grain 9mm FMJ bullets? Nope. All sold out. I even checked directly with the manufacturer of my favorite brand. They are back ordered for several months.


Seriously, look at the big picture. 9MM is the most common round used. So Where in the hell do you think it went? It went into the basements, safes, vaults, containers of American's all across the country.


I would agree here. Lets' liken this to a snow storm. Everyone runs to the store for milk and bread. People make a run on snow shovels and salt. It is the idea of foreboding that drives people to purchase way beyond what would be considered reasonable. So, start talking guns and removing a few types of weapons creates the environment of foreboding. People make a run on weapons. These weapons need bullets. This time around, it seems 9mm is the caliber of choice. Toss in some doubt of where the country is going. The brew for a run on guns and bullets is complete.

[Ducimus]

yeah but they're still freaking out and buying into a trumped up myth perpetuated by conspiracy theorists. they may not actually believe all of what I said, That was in jest and sarcasm, but they still to some extent buy into the myth that all guns wil be taken away and some evil empire bs

No, I think your oversimplifying the situation. I like things simple myself, but this is one of those things that has a lot of contributing factors. I personally rank the "Fema camp" styled crackpot theories at the bottom of the list.

Two things i can think of off the top of my head.

- "I better get mine before i can't!". People never appreciate what they have, or could have until it's gone or the option taken away from them. From multiple sources ive heard from California to Oklahoma, , including local ones here in utah, it seems approximately 80% of the customers in gun stores have never owned a gun before, or maybe own a single firearm and haven't been into a gun store in years.

- Uncertain future. Seriously, i think everyone is a little uncertain as to what the future may bring. I don't think it's any coincidence there's been a rise of "doomsday preppers". Their reasoning ranges from the outlandish, to remotely feasible. Entire industries are springing up around this now. But when you consider our national debt/deficiet, economy, political polarization, and anything else i can't remember at the moment, it's no big stretch, nor big surprise to say that people are uncertain. With that uncertainly, they want to be able to defend themselves and their homes.

I'm sure there's more to add to this list if sat here and thought about it long enough, but I think you get my point. At any rate, I don't think this is just about the crackpot theories your talking about. (IE fema camps, new world order, etc etc) There's a bit more to it then that.

[August]

Gimpy complaining about conspiracy theories instead of believing in them? Now that's a switch.

[Stealhead]

Aaah, the .45 and the M1911, fantastic examples of gun design. :yep: Good stoppers, solid, reliable, you can see the ancestry coming down into the design that's stood the test of time. :yep: Well over a hundred years old and still going strong, you can't say that for many weapon designs.

We used the Webley for a while, good weapon but we phased it out in favour of the Browning IIRC. :yep:

Of course, then there's the Lee Enfield, original MLE design in 1895, SMLE design in 1907, and still being used in various hotspots in the world today.

Admittedly though, the Russkies have us beat with the Mosin-Nagant, soldiering on from 1891 to the present day. :o

You mean to say 7.62x54mmR I call it Russian 7.62 the R at the end stands for rimed(no longer common with military rounds or most ammo these days).It is not the same original design round though the bullet itself gained a more conical shape(known as a "Spitzer" in German Spitzgeschoß "pointy bullet" that was in 1908 after experience in the Russo-Japanses war) in the early 20th century and the ballistic behavior has been improved a few times over the years.

The thing about your statement though it is not 100% accurate as any Mosins still around today(in tha hands of combatants) are most likely to be M1944's or the Chinese version of the same design making them 70 years old at the most.Maybe a little older if they are carrying a 91/30 and they would be firing modern round.The SMLE was produced new in Pakistan as recently as the late 1980s.

It is a good round though for a rifle it out performs(not by a huge margin) the NATO 7.62x51mm pretty good considering that the NATO round is half the age of old Russian.It is not the best round do to its rimmed nature for a metallic link belt fed machine gun but they got it to work fairly well with the PKM(though a rimless would be better in any modern MG design).

Supposedly they had a lot of trouble designing a reliable box magazine for the SVD as well this again would be due to the rimmed design.I wonder why they do not simply produce a slightly redesigned rimless version.

The M1944 though that is a handy rifle gets the job done for sure so long as you don't run rounds that run hot lest they make the bolt sticky.I like the M1944 so much I own three of them i can not honestly tell you how many rounds of 7.62x54 I have but there is a lot of it.In my opinion the Mosin-Nagant is the best rifle ever designed.Simo Häyhä thought so and sniped with iron sights taking down 505 Soviet soldiers of course with the Finnish version of the 91/30(not a carbine).

[August]

There's a bill in Congress right now to add a nickel tax to every bullet. One up in front of the Maryland State legislature would add 50% tax to bullet purchases. There are similar bills pending in at least 5 more states.

Sounds to me like stocking up on ammo now is a very wise move.

[AVGWarhawk]

There's a bill in Congress right now to add a nickel tax to every bullet. One up in front of the Maryland State legislature would add 50% tax to bullet purchases. There are similar bills pending in at least 5 more states.

Sounds to me like stocking up on ammo now is a very wise move.

Sounds to me like a well orchestrated tax proposal to me. :hmmm: It seems the government is really stretching the tax nonsense. Sometimes they call it a fee. In MD there is a "fee" for rain water run off. It is based on the square footage of land one owns. It also include the roof top square footage. It is getting as bad as the window tax.

[Stealhead]

There's a bill in Congress right now to add a nickel tax to every bullet. One up in front of the Maryland State legislature would add 50% tax to bullet purchases. There are similar bills pending in at least 5 more states.

Sounds to me like stocking up on ammo now is a very wise move.


If that passes tax evasion will become very popular.It might also result in the tax getting "paid" with the delivery at high velocity of the taxed item.That would be my method of payment.I am seeing reliable sources on states proposing ammunition taxes but nothing on one in Congress so I am not so sure how accurate that story is.

They do love their revenue the red light cameras are an outstanding example.I dislike people honestly running a traffic light but I dislike to a far greater extent when the lights are set up so that the caution light lasts only two or three seconds giving even a law abiding person little chance to stop safely if they are with in 200 ft of the light the light change time being beyond the reasonable recation time.I hear that many state level judges are ruling against these scams.

[Ducimus]

There's a bill in Congress right now to add a nickel tax to every bullet. One up in front of the Maryland State legislature would add 50% tax to bullet purchases. There are similar bills pending in at least 5 more states.

Sounds to me like stocking up on ammo now is a very wise move.

Yeah a tax on ammo has been in the rumormill for awhile. I think it's one of the reasons you can't even find reloading supplies right now. Any word on if they're going to try and tax components too, or is it just assembled factory rounds?

[August]

Yeah a tax on ammo has been in the rumormill for awhile. I think it's one of the reasons you can't even find reloading supplies right now. Any word on if they're going to try and tax components too, or is it just assembled factory rounds?

I'm sure it will be on everything. If you reload you might even have to pay a separate tax for each component.

[AVGWarhawk]

What I love about it. If it is controversial the government finds a way to tax it. It is incredible!!

[Buddahaid]

So true and have you noticed how no one smokes cigarettes anymore, or buys booze?

[Ducimus]

Kinda related to the subject of ammo shortages. Perhaps something for Yubba to watch.

Billions of Bullets and Thousands of MRAPs, Oh My (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-gNReEZJAY)

[Stealhead]

I like this lady:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QUoMufnVwY


Don't you guys just hate having to buy a new magazine every time you shoot your guns?

[Red October1984]

I've got 64 .223 rounds to my name and no 9mm...

But I have tons of 7.62 for the AK-47 in our basement and we've got a Mosin that fires the 7.62R

I'll have to look at it...IIRC, it was built in 1936... :hmmm:

[soopaman2]

Make your own. It is easy! Fun too!

A good multi stage press, and collecting your brass afterwards can go a long way.

Plus with reloading, the more you make, the cheaper it is, an incentive to arm yourself to the teeth. So get a press, and stop wasting those casings!:D:up:

[Red October1984]

Make your own. It is easy! Fun too!

A good multi stage press, and collecting your brass afterwards can go a long way.

Plus with reloading, the more you make, the cheaper it is, an incentive to arm yourself to the teeth. So get a press, and stop wasting those casings!:D:up:

I'm going to save my brass anyway.

.223 Brass doesn't grow on trees. :03:

[Cybermat47]

But I have tons of 7.62 for the AK-47 in our basement and we've got a Mosin that fires the 7.62R

You've got an AK-47? Cool :cool:

Is the Mosin a sniper/hunting rifle? Forgive me for my ignorance :oops:

[Buddahaid]

The Mosin a good solid simple to work rifle with few parts and a nice front ring sight. Plus the bolt slides out the back by pressing the trigger and goes in without any finicky lining up. Personally I like the M44 carbine because of the fixed folding bayonet.

[soopaman2]

You've got an AK-47? Cool :cool:

Is the Mosin a sniper/hunting rifle? Forgive me for my ignorance :oops:

It is a bolt action piece. Fairly accurate as a sniper rifle. It can also be used for hunting yes. My cousin owns a Nagant, and it is somewhat comparable to the Garand the US used at the time, though not as accurate, and slightly less ranged, but at 100m, they pretty much do the same to a pumpkin. :D

(personal experience)

[Ducimus]

You've got an AK-47? Cool :cool:

Is the Mosin a sniper/hunting rifle? Forgive me for my ignorance :oops:



Mosin's are very popular and have their own following. They are good, solid, bolt action rifles that fire a powerful cartridge from a 5 round internal stripper clip fed magazine. They can be used for both hunting, or sniping i suppose. They are also, as rifles go, incredibly inexpensive. Up until this last month or two, i used to see them all the time for like 179 to 200 some odd dollars. There's just tons of them in the form of russian surplus, but i fear even those are fast disappearing too now. I kinda regret not buying one earlier.

edit:
Video review for cybermat.
Mosin Nagant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmVJYB3uDkc

Mosin Nagant M44 ( Close-Up )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4VqJ6pRucI

[soopaman2]

Mosin's are very popular and have their own following. They are good, solid, bolt action rifles that fire a powerful cartridge from a 5 round internal stripper clip fed magazine. They can be used for both hunting, or sniping i suppose. They are also, as rifles go, incredibly inexpensive. Up until this last month or two, i used to see them all the time for like 179 to 200 some odd dollars. There's just tons of them in the form of russian surplus, but i fear even those are fast disappearing too now. I kinda regret not buying one earlier.

edit:
Video review for cybermat.
Mosin Nagant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmVJYB3uDkc

Mosin Nagant M44 ( Close-Up )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4VqJ6pRucI

If this forum had a kudos system I would award you with one. Since we dont I 'll just quote it and :salute::salute::salute:

Mosin is really a fine piece, even after all these years.

[Red October1984]

You've got an AK-47? Cool :cool:

Is the Mosin a sniper/hunting rifle? Forgive me for my ignorance :oops:

AK's are fun as hell to shoot. I haven't shot it in a while. It's my dad's rifle. The only one that's truly mine is the Savage .223 that I posted a while back. I'm not sure what model our Mosin. Is there somewhere I can look to find out which model it is? It is a sniper/hunting type rifle. Also fun to shoot. Two years ago I got to shoot it for the first time. We got a bunch of fruit/melons and set them on tree stumps in the backyard. 7.62 JHP and 7.62R FMJ work wonders when making fruit salad. :salute: It really is interesting to see what the FMJ hole looked like. It had splits around the hole from the force. I should've taken a picture.

I just know...that if the apocalypse comes around...hand me an AK and a Mosin. Those are great rifles. :up: :up: :yep: Mosin rifles are pretty cheap too. You can pick one up for ~130$ here locally.

[Buddahaid]

Easy just search.
http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/information/new_owner_ID/index.html

[Red October1984]

I'll have to look at the Mosin tomorrow and tell for sure...

I'm thinking it's a Tula M91/30... :hmm2:

[gimpy117]

- "I better get mine before i can't!". People never appreciate what they have, or could have until it's gone or the option taken away from them. From multiple sources ive heard from California to Oklahoma, , including local ones here in utah, it seems approximately 80% of the customers in gun stores have never owned a gun before, or maybe own a single firearm and haven't been into a gun store in years.



I think that is a big part of it yes, but why? Personally I'm thinking its because people are buying into the loud voices who say that they are going to take away all guns, or assault rifles. I guess I don't understand them....I suppose I've just never really wanted an M-16 or AK style gun. I own enough guns for myself, but I've always found that for each individual purpose an AR or AK has a civil counterpart which is more suited to the role.

This is coupled by the fact that I don't buy into the hype. The fact that our stupid senators can or at least come damn near blocking any kind of vote or discussion in the senate means they will never take our guns away...maybe make it harder for wackjobs to get ahold of bushmasters but lets face it...this is the USA and I think we need to stop listening to the tinfoil crowd and NRA

[August]

...but lets face it...this is the USA and I think we need to stop listening to the tinfoil crowd and NRA

I'm sure that would be just what Senator Feinstein and President Obama would like us to do so they can get back to gutting our 2A right but that ain't gonna happen.

All they have done is wake up gun owners to the fact that the Democratic party will push any anti-gun legislation they think they can get away with and I think they will suffer at the polls next election like they did in 1994 after the last anti-gun push they made.

If you think i'm wrong then please show me the anti-gun legislation between then and now that they did not support. I have never heard of an anti-gun bill the Democratic party did not like.

[Ducimus]

I think that is a big part of it yes, but why? Personally I'm thinking its because people are buying into the loud voices who say that they are going to take away all guns, or assault rifles.

You DID read Fienstiens original proposal didn't you? No special interest group lobbying was neccessary. If you haven't, you should, then pair that with the knowledge that she got her shennaigans passed before. On a personal note, ill give you this timeline:

* Friday: i saw the news about sandy hook. Given the age of the victims involved, i knew this was going to be an "excrement storm". I told my wife about it that night when she came home from work, and we were both agreed that if we were goign to get her an AR, we'd better do it NOW.

* Saturday morning, by 9:30 or 10AM, we had cleared NICS and was on the way home with my wifes new rifle.

* Sunday Afternoon. Fienstien opens her big mouth

* Monday : The rush on the gun stores is in full tilt.


Do you have any idea how utter, and totally complete this rush has been? The racks in all my area's stores were picked clean. I was talking with my folks who still live in california. Same thing. The gun racks were picked clean.

The NRA had nothing to do with this.


I guess I don't understand them....I suppose I've just never really wanted an M-16 or AK style gun.

I never cared for an AR platform myself, (I'm an M1A/M-14 fanboy) until we discovered it was about the only rifle aside from a .22, that my wife can shoot comfortably. Once we came upon that realization, an AR was on the wish list.

I own enough guns for myself, but I've always found that for each individual purpose an AR or AK has a civil counterpart which is more suited to the role.

Not all guns, work for all people. Recoil sensitivity, length of pull, etc etc.

This is coupled by the fact that I don't buy into the hype.

I don't put much stock into hype either, but it has occured to me there is a fine line between ignoring hype, and being asleep and not realizing what is going on.


The fact that our stupid senators can or at least come damn near blocking any kind of vote or discussion in the senate means they will never take our guns away...maybe make it harder for wackjobs to get ahold of bushmasters but lets face it...this is the USA and I think we need to stop listening to the tinfoil crowd and NRA

As i've said before in other posts. This isn't just about guns, the tinfoil crowed, or the NRA. It's much larger then that. Ever since 911, our government has been on the "politics of fear" train. Our civil liberties have been pushed onto the proverbial slippery slope, and it needs to stop. Gun control is just one piece of a larger picture.

On a side note, I think maybe you should watch this:
A Colorado Sheriff Responds To President Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwgZzeq8oI)

[Buddahaid]

As i've said before in other posts. This isn't just about guns, the tinfoil crowed, or the NRA. It's much larger then that. Ever since 911, our government has been on the "politics of fear" train. Our civil liberties have been pushed onto the proverbial slippery slope, and it needs to stop. Gun control is just one piece of a larger picture.
[/URL]

I agree. When the DHS was formed was when I decided to buy my first firearm. Until then I was happy with my collection of air guns for shooting pleasure. After that I thought the government basically through away the Bill of Rights and all we had left was lip service.

[haz]

in my opinion I think the govt. Is grabbing all the ammo it can.to limit ammo to public it would basicly have the same effect as a weapons ban plus not as obvious as a gun ban,and they could figure out away to tax the blank out of it like cigarettes,and if they say its for homeland and military,who would think to much of it? cant even find .22 ammo around here.also the cost of a box of 30-06 ammo has gone up a lot in last month or so.glad I bow hunt also. just my humble opinion.

[AVGWarhawk]

ammo has gone up a lot in last month or so

Price gouging at it's finest.

[Stealhead]

I'll have to look at the Mosin tomorrow and tell for sure...

I'm thinking it's a Tula M91/30... :hmm2:


Did you figure out what you have?

A star with a hammer or a triangle with a star or a hammer inside it was produced at Tula.A star with an arrow or bow and arrow inside it was produced at Izhmash. A date from 1930 up on a rifle with a full size barrel makes it a 91/30.A date of 1938 to 1943 on a carbine makes it an M38( these mounted a removable cruciform bayonet just like the 91/30s).A pre 1938 date on a carbine makes it a "dragoon" but those are very rare in the US.

A date of 1944 or later on a carbine makes it an M44 it may or may not have a folding bayonet still attached.If the M44 has folding bayonet but a date of 1943 then you might have one of the 50,000 test run M44s produced in late 1943 or more likely you have an M38 that at some point had an M44 bayonet attached to it.

If you do not see any of the described markings and no Cyrillic letters you most likely have a Finnish Mosin-Nagant.If yours has the words Westinghouse or Remington you have a very rare rifle produced for the Czar but never shipped due to the 1917 Revolution.These rifles where sold on the US market in the 1920's.Except for the ones the A.E.F. left in Murmansk.

If you see a pre 1917 date you have a much rarer rifle as well look for the Russian eagle stamp.

A little known secret about standard 91/30s(none sniper) that many people are not aware of is that the bayonet actually improves the harmonics of the barrel and makes the rifle more accurate.

[Red October1984]

Did you figure out what you have?

A star with a hammer or a triangle with a star or a hammer inside it was produced at Tula.A star with an arrow or bow and arrow inside it was produced at Izhmash. A date from 1930 up on a rifle with a full size barrel makes it a 91/30.A date of 1938 to 1943 on a carbine makes it an M38( these mounted a removable cruciform bayonet just like the 91/30s).A pre 1938 date on a carbine makes it a "dragoon" but those are very rare in the US.

A date of 1944 or later on a carbine makes it an M44 it may or may not have a folding bayonet still attached.If the M44 has folding bayonet but a date of 1943 then you might have one of the 50,000 test run M44s produced in late 1943 or more likely you have an M38 that at some point had an M44 bayonet attached to it.

If you do not see any of the described markings and no Cyrillic letters you most likely have a Finnish Mosin-Nagant.If yours has the words Westinghouse or Remington you have a very rare rifle produced for the Czar but never shipped due to the 1917 Revolution.These rifles where sold on the US market in the 1920's.Except for the ones the A.E.F. left in Murmansk.

If you see a pre 1917 date you have a much rarer rifle as well look for the Russian eagle stamp.


According to this post, I have a Izhmash Dragoon rifle in my basement. It has the Tula Marking and was made in 1934. :D

[TFatseas]

According to this post, I have a Izhmash Dragoon rifle in my basement. It has the Tula Marking and was made in 1934. :D

Read to your hearts content.

http://62x54r.net/

Personally I like shooting them and they're not bad for what they are, a boat oar.:03:

[Red October1984]

I always liked the Mosin. One of these days, I'll buy my own. :)

[Stealhead]

According to this post, I have a Izhmash Dragoon rifle in my basement. It has the Tula Marking and was made in 1934. :D


It either has a Tula marking or an Izhmash marking it wont have both.an easy way to find out is by looking at the receiver a pre 1942 rifle will have a hexagonal shape in front of the bolt.


I really should not have called the dragoon a carbine because the barrel on those is the same length as a standard 91/30.The original M91 had a 51 inch barrel.If yours has a date of 1934 it has to be a 91/30 because the M38 which is truly a carbine was not in production in 1934.You have an early production 91/30.

You do have a generally higher quality 91/30 though during WWII they started rounding off the receivers to shorten production time.Your dads being pre WWII should have a hexagonal shaped receiver.


http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm

You should buy at least two Mosin-Nagants a full size 91/30 and a carbine.Then you should also buy an SVT-40 just to have something that most people do not own.

[Red October1984]

It either has a Tula marking or an Izhmash marking it wont have both.an easy way to find out is by looking at the receiver a pre 1942 rifle will have a hexagonal shape in front of the bolt.


Maybe you should use this because I doubt that you have a dragoon.

It has the Izhmash marking for sure.

The date that is stamped on there is 1934. :hmmm: I doubt I have a dragoon...but there's this little part of me that is hoping. :oops: :D

I'll have to take a better look at it. Hang on.


EDIT: It's a hex bolt Izhmash from 1934. I'm sure of that.

[Stealhead]

It has the Izhmash marking for sure.

The date that is stamped on there is 1934. :hmmm: I doubt I have a dragoon...but there's this little part of me that is hoping. :oops: :D

I'll have to take a better look at it. Hang on.


The stamp is it a triangle or a star? Star with an arrow inside is Tula.Triangle with an arrow is Izhmash.If the Triangle has a "T" inside its Finnish.

Here is page showing all of the marks and proofs look though these as you can also ID if your was once a sniper rifle.
Column 18 shows the sniper markings.Yours was most likely not because it has only one date stamp.But when you go to buy one look for the sniper proofs and ask the seller to show every Mosin that they have because you want to find the best one.It may not be the one that has the sniper proofs.
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks01.htm


They did take some dragoons and "Cossacks" (a dragoon with no bayonet mounting) and convert them to 91/30 standards of course in this case they are not as valuable as an unconverted dragoon.You would also have to take one apart to tell if it was converted but not at a level that a gun owner should feel uncomfortable with..The site does not go into detail about how to ID a converted dragoon.There are also 91/30s that where selected as sniper rifles and then when at a later date considered not accurate enough and converted back to a standard 91/30 again.

Measure the barrel length and look at that page I linked to according to your date it should be 48 1/2" click on that length on the page and go from there.

[Red October1984]

The stamp is it a triangle or a star? Star with an arrow inside is Tula.Triangle with an arrow is Izhmash.If the Triangle has a "T" inside its Finnish.

Ah...Crap. I read it wrong. I have a Tula. Sorry.


They did take some dragoons and "Cossacks" (a dragoon with no bayonet mounting) and convert them to 91/30 standards of course in this case they are not as valuable as an unconverted dragoon.You would also have to take one apart to tell if it was converted.The site does not go into detail about how to ID a converted dragoon.There are also 91/30s that where selected as sniper rifles and then when at a later date considered not accurate enough and converted back to a standard 91/30 again.Those would take an expert to ID though.

There's no bayonet on ours.

Measure the barrel length and look at that page I linked to according to your date it should be 48 1/2" click on that length on the page and go from there.


I'll have to do that tomorrow. I don't have time to go do that now. :dead:


Now that we've established that the Star with an Arrow is not Izhmash...

:oops:

[Buddahaid]

Yeah, but it's still a very robust and well designed rifle. Really solidly made with parts that are very interchangeable. As far as those videos go, I think the damned thing kicks hard and ten rounds are enough for my spine. Especially with the steel but plate.

[Red October1984]

Yeah, but it's still a very robust and well designed rifle. Really solidly made with parts that are very interchangeable. As far as those videos go, I think the damned thing kicks hard and ten rounds are enough for my spine. Especially with the steel but plate.

I like the gun. I didn't notice a whole lot of recoil. It wasn't bad. :hmmm:

[raymond6751]

I wonder how the sales of knives is going ?

[Ducimus]

I'm surprised nobody's started a thread on that yet. I thought about it, but decided that was best left to Yubba.

[Stealhead]

I'm surprised nobody's started a thread on that yet. I thought about it, but decided that was best left to Yubba.


Yeah it is surprising to me as well.Of course I notice that it hardly got the attention that a gun incident would get in the media.That stabbing got the same amount of treatment that a very minor firearm incident would get.

This is of course because it flies in the face of the medias agenda on firearms.

@RedOctober In my post about measurements I said barrel length that is incorrect.You are looking for length of the rifle from butt stock to muzzle.

You felt lower recoil because you where using ammo with less powder.Many people will hand load(or purchase hand loads) 7.62x54mm with a lighter powder load to make it more pleasant to shoot.Full power rounds are fairly strong recoil wise and only needed for hunting or in combat or at one time in combat.

I hear guys incorrectly think that 7.62x54mm is on par with .303 in power that is because they are shooting light rounds.

I have made some really light powder loads that my daughter uses(she is 10) in my M44s it still has a bit of recoil for someone that size but it makes it not a nightmare.She tried a few times with more powerful rounds but it was to much recoil for her.


At the Russian armament museum in Tula they have a one off scaled down M91 that was made for Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov(son of Nichols) its caliber was 3.81x27R.There are photos of him carrying it out there on the web.

[Red October1984]

@RedOctober In my post about measurements I said barrel length that is incorrect.You are looking for length of the rifle from butt stock to muzzle.

You felt lower recoil because you where using ammo with less powder.Many people will hand load(or purchase hand loads) 7.62x54mm with a lighter powder load to make it more pleasant to shoot.Full power rounds are fairly strong recoil wise and only needed for hunting or in combat or at one time in combat.

I hear guys incorrectly think that 7.62x54mm is on par with .303 in power that is because they are shooting light rounds.

I have made some really light powder loads that my daughter uses(she is 10) in my M44s it still has a bit of recoil for someone that size but it makes it not a nightmare.She tried a few times with more powerful rounds but it was to much recoil for her.


How did you come to that conclusion? :hmmm: For all I know, they could be full or light. I'm not sure. They're all in a MilSurp kind of box.


Buttstock to Muzzle? Okay. I'll measure after dinner. :up:

[Stealhead]

How did you come to that conclusion? :hmmm: For all I know, they could be full or light. I'm not sure. They're all in a MilSurp kind of box.


Buttstock to Muzzle? Okay. I'll measure after dinner. :up:


I don't know what else do you shoot because unless you are popping off .300mag or .338 rounds all day a Mosin-Nagant should have a pretty noticeable recoil in comparison to anything smaller in caliber.

Do not mistake my statement of noticeable recoil as unmanageable to an experienced shooter.Though a full power 7.62x54mm round if it has a full powder load you should fell it the next day if you fired of a few dozen even if you have been shooting for many years.I know a lot of people that collect bolt action military rifles that run a lower powder round just because they want to fell less sore the next day.Surplus rounds can be pretty old the powder fight not burn up as it is supposed to giving you less recoil.

Surplus rounds are mainly sold for the purposes of plinking I would not hunt or compete with those for reasons of inconsistent power and ballistics which you will get to some extent with surplus.They are still great for familiarization and consistency for your muscle memory.

[Red October1984]

I don't know what else do you shoot because unless you are popping off .300mag or .338 rounds all day a Mosin-Nagant should have a pretty noticeable recoil in comparison to anything smaller in caliber.

Do not mistake my statement of noticeable recoil as unmanageable to an experienced shooter.Though a full power 7.62x54mm round if it has a full powder load you should fell it the next day if you fired of a few dozen even if you have been shooting for many years.

I didn't fire off a dozen of the things. I probably fired 6 or 7 rounds. We've only got maybe 10-12 boxes of 7.62R and I had to leave some for the rest of the people we had at the party. :smug: Last time I shot it, I also shot roughly 50 rounds from our AK-47 (I perfected the double tap. I destroyed a melon...) and another 25-30 from a .22 so I was sore the next day. Mainly from the AK double taps I think. :D Man, I love shooting that thing.

Recoil doesn't bother me too much. I've been deer hunting with a 30-06 semi-auto and it isn't that bad. I'm hoping to get my .223 sighted in this weekend. The only time recoil bothers me is when I'm shooting a pistol. I shot a .40 S&W Compact a while back. I could hit the target at 25 yards....but nothing special. I'm not a great pistol shot. :oops:


The only thing I have to measure the Mosin with is a yardstick... I'll try...

EDIT: I've got 2 questions for you.

With my .223 Remington bolt action, I should be able to shoot Mil-Spec 5.56 rounds right? I was reading about how it's bad for your barrel but it doesn't make any sense why I couldn't shoot NATO rounds.

And, I have a Sweet .223 scope. It compensates for bullet drop at range. There isn't a setting for 64-gr 5.56 NATO rounds on there. I just have dials for 55-gr, 62-gr, and 50-gr. How much difference will 2 grains make at 100-150 yards if I set it at 62-gr?

EDIT2: The Mosin is roughly 48 inches.

[August]

With my .223 Remington bolt action, I should be able to shoot Mil-Spec 5.56 rounds right? I was reading about how it's bad for your barrel but it doesn't make any sense why I couldn't shoot NATO rounds.


I wouldn't as it could blow up in your face. More than one person has told me this:



http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070823153921AAw4i5c
Should you be worried about shooting 5.56x45 milspec ammo in a .223 Remington? The answer really depends on your chamber. 5.56 x45 ammo is intended for chambers with longer throats. If you shoot hot 5.56x45 ammo in short-throated SAAMI-spec chambers you can encounter pressure issues. The new long-throated 'Wylde' chamber allows safe use of military ammo. Wylde chambers are quite common in Rock River guns. Other manufacturers, such as Fulton Armory, offer modified "match chambers" with extended throats that allow safe use of 5.56x45 ammo in .223 Remington rifles. For a complete discussion of the .223 Rem vs. 5.56x45 question, read this Tech Notice from Winchester, and this GunZone Commentary by Dean Speir. Without belaboring the point, we'll repeat the official SAAMI position: "Chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile, may account for the higher pressures which result when military ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber. SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer."Link to the GunZone commentary: http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

[Red October1984]

I wouldn't as it could blow up in your face.

That's what I've been hearing. I'm just looking for ways to get cheaper ammo.

MilSurp ammo apparently won't work. Right...gotcha. Guess I'll be saving my brass and buying 20$ boxes of ammo... :salute:

[August]

That's what I've been hearing. I'm just looking for ways to get cheaper ammo.

MilSurp ammo apparently won't work. Right...gotcha. Guess I'll be saving my brass and buying 20$ boxes of ammo... :salute:t b

Coincidentally today I bought 120 rounds of Russian laminated steel case .223 at $8 bucks per 20ea round box. No good for reloading but it'll make a fun day at the range.

Brown Bear .223 Remington
55 grain bimetal HP
boat tail bullet
Lacquered steel case
non-corrosive berdan primer

[Red October1984]

t b

Coincidentally today I bought 120 rounds of Russian laminated steel case .223 at $8 bucks per 20ea round box. No good for reloading but it'll make a fun day at the range.

Brown Bear .223 Remington
55 grain bimetal HP
boat tail bullet
Lacquered steel case
non-corrosive berdan primer


Well heck! Where did you get that price?!

I want in on that. :woot: I've got a total of 64 rounds to my name. (20 FMJ, 40 Soft Point, 4 Unknown :D ) 8$ a box is amazing!

[August]

Well heck! Where did you get that price?!

I want in on that. :woot: I've got a total of 64 rounds to my name. (20 FMJ, 40 Soft Point, 4 Unknown :D ) 8$ a box is amazing!

Local gun shop I stopped at on a whim on the way home from work. He was just unpacking a case of 25 boxes. I offered to buy the whole case but he limited me to six. "I gotta make it fair to the other guys".

Find out when FEDEX guy makes it's delivery and chase him in the door. I bet when I go back tomorrow after work it'll be all gone.

[Red October1984]

Local gun shop I stopped at on a whim on the way home from work. He was just unpacking a case of 25 boxes. I offered to buy the whole case but he limited me to six. "I gotta make it fair to the other guys".

Go in tomorrow, buy me some, send it to me, and I'll send the money back!

Or just tell me where you live. :D

I'm just kidding. You don't need to send me ammo. :03:

[Stealhead]

Most likely Your Savage was designed for .223 and not 5.56mm.Most AR-15s and AR-15 based clones are chambered for 5.56mm.If the rifle was designed for 5.56mm you can use .223,5.56 M193 or what ever 5.56 that you want.If the rifle was designed for .223 you can't use 5.56mm in it.

If you ever plan on buying a AR at some point buy one that has been produced since the 1990s because they will use 5.56mm and then you can safely use both 5.56 and .223 in it.Your Savage and similar bolt action rifles where put on the market back in the 1970's and 80's when the AR-15 was no where near as common and as a result .223 and 5.56mm where in much lower demand.Now with so many newer ARs that can use both rounds people buy up both calibers like mad.

Even if you could safely chamber 5.56mm your rifle has a twist ratio that is not compatible with 5.56mm ammo especially anything based on the SS109 round and the bullet would tumble at some point in its flight.The Savage has a 1:10 or 1:12 ratio(it is likely stamped on the barrel some place) you should avoid any round that is above 62 grains but read your manual or ask a gunsmith or seller that knows what they are talking about it might be able to handle heaver rounds but the accuracy will be lowered because it is a varmint gun optimized for 30-55gr rounds that is good because those are cheaper than heavier rounds.

ARs have a lower twist ratio so they can better accommodate differing rounds.that being said many people will have more than barrel and upper.They will have a varmint upper with a .223 chamber and a rifle with a 1:10 or so ratio and have a another upper and barrel optimized for the newer heavy grain 5.56 rounds.

I have an upper and barrel that accepts .468 SOCOM it is a boar killer.The nice thing is that .468 rounds fit just fine inside any magazine designed for 5.56mm.

Have fun with that Savage but save at least some of your money to buy some more rifles of your own.

[Red October1984]

Have fun with that Savage but save at least some of your money to buy some more rifles of your own.

I've decided that my next one is going to be a Mosin. I love that gun too much to not have one. They're cheap but awesome. My birthday is at the end of this summer. If I don't have it by then, I know what I want for my birthday. :D A Mosin-Nagant 91/30 like my dad's and a few boxes of those silver tip Russian rounds.

Now for my savage, I have 64-gr .223 Remington Soft Points... I would think that i could use them but you tell me otherwise....

I'll ask the local gunsmith sometime. Hunting season isn't for a while and I don't target shoot with soft points.

[Ducimus]

Just going to reiterate what's probably already been said.


5.56 has more pressure in it then .223.

- If your rifle is chambered in 5.56, you have "downward compatibility". Shoot either one, your fine.
- If your rifle is chambered in .223, then only shoot .223, your chamber is rated for the pressure of a .556.

Will a single round do some damage and have the reciver or something blow up in your face? Probably not. Over time though, it will do some damage. I wouldn't do it.


Conversely, the opposite is true with .308 and 7.62.

.308 has more pressure then a 7.62, so if your rifles chambered for .308 feed it whatever you like since the case sizing on both rounds is identical. Just don't go feeding a 7.62 nato chambered rilfe with .308

[Stealhead]

Now for my savage, I have 64-gr .223 Remington Soft Points... I would think that i could use them but you tell me otherwise....

I'll ask the local gunsmith sometime. Hunting season isn't for a while and I don't target shoot with soft points.

Ask the gunsmith it probably will work fine with 64 grain.I was just giving you a general guideline 64 is only two above 62 and your rifle may very well have a heavier barrel or a different ratio but it wont be a ratio that is ideal for heavy grain ammo.Shooting 70 grain rounds will work with no danger to you they just wont be very accurate because those rounds are designed for a higher twist ratio.

You need to find out what your rifles twist ratio is because some Savages do have a 1:9 twist and in that case I would go with heavier grain rounds 70 or 75 because you will get better accuracy with those if you have a 1:9 barrel.

Or call Savage and ask them they will tell you for certain I did a quick search and some Savage bolt actions have a chamber designed for the Wylde shape(5.56mm).I would call Savage they will know for sure because the person you call will ask for your rifle model and serial number and they will know exactly what you have and can give you the best answer.Not every gun seller knows the ins and outs of every firearm.

[Red October1984]

You need to find out what your rifles twist ratio is because some Savages do have a 1:9 twist and in that case I would go with heavier grain rounds 70 or 75 because you will get better accuracy with those if you have a 1:9 barrel.

I've got a Savage AXIS .223

Or call Savage and ask them they will tell you for certain I did a quick search and some Savage bolt actions have a chamber designed for the Wylde shape(5.56mm).I would call Savage they will know for sure because the person you call will ask for your rifle model and serial number and they will know exactly what you have and can give you the best answer.Not every gun seller knows the ins and outs of every firearm.

The website says that the "Rate of Twist" is 9. I'm assuming that it's the 1:9 that you are meaning. :hmmm:


So I should be good with a higher grain then? I want to stick with this scope so I think I'll buy 55 or 62 grain ammo. :yep:

[Stealhead]

I've got a Savage AXIS .223



The website says that the "Rate of Twist" is 9. I'm assuming that it's the 1:9 that you are meaning. :hmmm:


So I should be good with a higher grain then? I want to stick with this scope so I think I'll buy 55 or 62 grain ammo. :yep:

Yes "rate of twist of 9" would be 1:9.

[Red October1984]

Yes "rate of twist of 9" would be 1:9.

Okay then. I'm gonna get this baby sighted in either Saturday evening or Sunday. :D

[Webster]

I see the 9mm JHP are reaching an average price of $1.50 per round now

people are just insane to pay such prices.


I saw a post about a guy using snap caps rounds for practicing, is that something that's effective or is it just a matter of not having anything else to shoot?

[Ducimus]

I saw a post about a guy using snap caps rounds for practicing, is that something that's effective or is it just a matter of not having anything else to shoot?

About the only good that would do that I'm aware of is trigger control.

[Armistead]

Glad I stocked up.

I was open carrying today and got stopped by a rookie cop why metal detecting posted private { with permission) next to a park. This is becoming laughable, you would think people that say I'm in the park would realize I'm on posted private land two hundred yards from the edge of the park. Not to mention, old park on bad side of town that only drunks hang out in.

He did OK, although it peod him that I wouldn't give him ID, name, nothing. I think his supervisor rather enjoyed it, course he knows who I am.

[Platapus]

I saw a post about a guy using snap caps rounds for practicing, is that something that's effective or is it just a matter of not having anything else to shoot?

Most, if not all, guns don't like being dry-fired (trigger pulled and hammer dropped on an empty chamber. In some guns it is a prime way to break a firing pin.

A snap cap allows the firing pin to hit something so it does not slam forward and potentially fracture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_cap

[Stealhead]

Snap caps are also excellent for training muscle memory.For example practicing draws and getting into stances you can simulate drawing from holstered position all the way to the trigger pull also magazine reloads or chamber reloads with a revolver.It might sound extreme but SEALs and Green Berets and SAS and many other elite forces practice dry fire fire draws thousands of times a year.So would any highly skilled competition shooter

If you do something so many times that it is nearly instinct to your brain you will be very deadly or efficient and accurate depending on your goal.If your weapon is firearm or a sword or even your fists it it makes sense to have motions and steps as pure instinct.

The Japanese consider the drawing and sheathing of a bladed weapon an art in and of itself the same concept applies to any weapon.

@Webster snap caps are not a round they do not shoot anything at all that post you read the person did not know what they where talking about or confused snap caps for something else or they had to purchase a round that they dislike so much that they consider on them par with a real snap cap.They usually brightly colored and made mainly of plastic and some brass.Some are designed for dry firing and others are only meant for the simulation of loading.