N Korea 'combat posture to hit US'

[Gerald]

Just when you thought North Korean propaganda videos could get no crazier, the country’s official news agency Uriminzokkiri has posted a video that reaches new heights of absurdity and bombast. This latest production, flagged by the invaluable NK News, champions the recent nuclear test and repeats the prior video’s obsessive focus on the United States.

The video is simple: text, berating the United States and bragging about North Korea’s latest nuclear test, appears over CGI-flame-covered video clips of American troops and of President Obama. It ends with a CGI simulation of the nuclear test, which NK News thinks might actually be stolen from a foreign news organization (if you look closely, you can see blurred out squares in the upper corners, possibly covering the network logos).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/20/north-korea-releases-another-propaganda-video-this-one-with-obama-in-flames/

Sick propaganda.

Note: February 20, 2013 at 10:12 am

[GT182]

North Korea should be very careful on what they say and do. Not even China is on their side anymore.

:hmmm: Ya does't want to PO your closest friends when you get yourself in a bind and backed into a corner. "One is the loneliest number...."

[AVGWarhawk]

I started a thread on the craziness going on in Korea.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=202339

Someone in Korea apparently needs attention. :shifty:

[TLAM Strike]

I almost thought it was fake. The music was off (just read it was stolen from Skyrim), and the images of US troops seemed strange for NK Propaganda. Normally they like to show drawings of US troops from the 1950's as baby eating devils while these photos show them looking better equipped than the North Korean Army.

But going by that last video they released that featured cgi stolen from a CoD/MoH game the DPRK is just letting propaganda department go wild.

[nikimcbee]

CGI simulation

:hmm2:
...that means they have computers in NK.:hmm2:

...that means they have eletricity in NK.
I call BS on that.

[TLAM Strike]

:hmm2:
...that means they have computers in NK.:hmm2:

...that means they have eletricity in NK.
I call BS on that.

Glorious People's Republic of Korea is far more advanced than your puny imperialist nations. Behold the latest invention of Brilliant Comrade Kim Jong Un:
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2965/66546556.jpg

[Red October1984]

Glorious People's Republic of Korea is far more advanced than your puny imperialist nations. Behold the latest invention of Brilliant Comrade Kim Jong Un:
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2965/66546556.jpg

Wow...

Looks like we must bow down to the all powerful and superior DPRK. We can't even touch that kind of tech.

They obviously would just STEAMROLL us in a war.

These people....and their jokes....When will NK ever learn?

[Cybermat47]

These people....and their jokes....When will NK ever learn?

When NK doesn't exist anymore. United Korea FTW.

[Red October1984]

When NK doesn't exist anymore. United Korea FTW.

I wish that could happen. United Democratic Korea would be even better. :D :up:

[darius359au]

Well Dear Comrade Cartman's done it now and he's going to have Bethesda and Jeremy Soule after his butt for stealing the start up music for Oblivion! ,the U.S and the rest of the world may be grumpy at north korea But thats nothing compared to what the Bethesda/Zenimax's Lawyers going to do to them for copyright infringement :D:D

[Cybermat47]

You know, this propaganda isn't all that surprising. I mean, we are still at war with NK.

[Red October1984]

You know, this propaganda isn't all that surprising. I mean, we are still at war with NK.

All we did was sign a cease-fire and quit shooting.

We're still over there.....still waiting for them to cross the line so we have an excuse to finally finish them.

[Cybermat47]

All we did was sign a cease-fire and quit shooting.

We're still over there.....still waiting for them to cross the line so we have an excuse to finally finish them.

Well, you Yanks are. Us Aussies were all "G'day mates, gotta go home and pop some shrimps on the barbie!"

[Red October1984]

Well, you Yanks are. Us Aussies were all "G'day mates, gotta go home and pop some shrimps on the barbie!"

Haha...I saw a really good WW1 movie about the Aussies one time.

Beneath Hill 60

Look it up. Those guys most certainly did not rush home to put "shrimps" on the barbie.

[Cybermat47]

Beneath Hill 60.

I think I'm going to have to wait 2 years before I can watch that.

[Jimbuna]

More sabre rattling or a very real death wish? :hmmm:


North Korea says it has ordered artillery and rocket units into "combat posture" to prepare to target US bases in Hawaii, Guam and the US mainland.
The announcement, carried by KCNA news agency, follows days of strong rhetoric from Pyongyang.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21935342

[Herr-Berbunch]

:har: The joke thread is thataway >

[Jimbuna]

Maybe...maybe not.

The 'joker' may decide not to joke any longer and set off a few firecrackers over the DMZ at Seoul....the south may well respond and a nasty escalation may ensue.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-seoul-plan-response-if-n-korea-attacks-2013-03-26?link=MW_latest_news

[Skybird]

How many weeks is it now that EVERY SINGLE DAY new threats come flying down the wires from the North?

'lil fat man seems he cannot bear it to open a newspaper in the morning without His Northern Gloriousness being mentioned on page one. It's his way to participate in events on the big wide shiny global stage.

Maybe somebody should send him a book on yoga excercises, he seems to have an ego in cramps.

[mapuc]

Have just been hearing an expert to asia talking about this crisis

He said that this rhetoric is something different from the usual thing they use to do. Mostly they are pointing their rhetoric against South and USA in combination.

Is it just one of their usual big-in-mouth-schedule, or??

Markus

[gimpy117]

whats new? North Korea is a big talker and a quick walker.

they do this all the time. they run out of rice for the people Hennessy for the leaders and just make some noise and it's all fixed

[Herr-Berbunch]

The 'joker' may decide not to joke any longer and set off a few firecrackers over the DMZ at Seoul....the south may well respond and a nasty escalation may ensue.

South Korea is a different matter, and always quite serious. The joke I read was about hitting Guam, Hawaii, and the US mainland.

[August]

The NK ruler is just young enough, and he grew up just insulated enough to have an unrealistic view of the true ramifications if he starts a shooting war. Especially since the last two times he has pulled the trigger there was no response from either SK or the US other than strong words.

I think at some point we're going to have to slap them and slap them hard.

[TLAM Strike]

Well the Norks will hit something with those missiles. Probably ocean but they will hit it! :03:

[Oberon]

How many weeks is it now that EVERY SINGLE DAY new threats come flying down the wires from the North?

'lil fat man seems he cannot bear it to open a newspaper in the morning without His Northern Gloriousness being mentioned on page one. It's his way to participate in events on the big wide shiny global stage.

Maybe somebody should send him a book on yoga excercises, he seems to have an ego in cramps.

Still, it makes a welcome change from the numerous gun/second amendment/Obama is going to put us all into FEMA death camps conspiracy threads. :yep:

[mookiemookie]

http://www.knowyourapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/bwcw2.jpeg

[Hottentot]

Still, it makes a welcome change from the numerous gun/second amendment/Obama is going to put us all into FEMA death camps conspiracy threads. :yep:

It's still a young thread.

[Sailor Steve]

HEY! The last time I answered Oberon with that same message it started a firestorm! :stare:

[STEED]

How many weeks is it now that EVERY SINGLE DAY new threats come flying down the wires from the North?

'lil fat man seems he cannot bear it to open a newspaper in the morning without His Northern Gloriousness being mentioned on page one. It's his way to participate in events on the big wide shiny global stage.

Maybe somebody should send him a book on yoga excercises, he seems to have an ego in cramps.

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/01/30/10377188/gI_90178_dahn_yoga_book_Meridian_Exercise.jpg
Also good for strutting warmongers who want to blow up the planet because its their time of the month.

[Oberon]

HEY! The last time I answered Oberon with that same message it started a firestorm! :stare:

That's exactly what the North Koreans want! :nope:

[Hottentot]

HEY! The last time I answered Oberon with that same message it started a firestorm! :stare:

Which wasn't the fault of you or the perfectly good message, though, so I recycled it.

[Sailor Steve]

Which wasn't the fault of you or the perfectly good message, though, so I recycled it.
Okay, back on topic. I have missiles loaded with pretzels and they are aimed right at Godpolis! :stare:

[Hottentot]

Okay, back on topic. I have missiles loaded with pretzels and they are aimed right at Godpolis! :stare:

We beat you to exterminating us, like, two hundreds of turns ago already. Nyah nyah nyah! :O:

[Sailor Steve]

Well, I curse you from my grave then! :dead:

[Hottentot]

There should probably be a sequel, though. That AAR became stupidly popular for such a short project. :hmmm:

So fear not, there might still be use for those pretzels! :up:

[Ducimus]

http://www.knowyourapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/bwcw2.jpeg


This.

Personally, I think we should watch them, but at the same time, ignore them,
and not give in to the temper tantrums of a "bratty child."

[Betonov]

We beat you to exterminating us, like, two hundreds of turns ago already. Nyah nyah nyah! :O:

Civilization :hmmm:

[mapuc]

I've been thinking

Every time the North Korean open their mouth and comes with their famous war rhetoric we just lift our eyebrows and yawn

Wonder how our reaction would be if they put action behind the words

Guess it would be a little more that just lifting our eyebrows

Markus

[Jimbuna]

If they fire on the south I should imagine there will be a retaliatory strike from both SK and the us but that strike would probably be measured so as not to escalate matters in the region.

China may appear to be tiring of their naughty neighbour but I still think they are the major player in the Korean peninsular.

[Platapus]

Personally, I think we should watch them, but at the same time, ignore them,
and not give in to the temper tantrums of a "bratty child."


I would agree. We don't need to escalate the situation. But we need to be watchful and prepared. I hope we are talking long and hard with the Chinese about this?

[geetrue]

I had read somewhere that the young ruler of North korea was a game player, but this is all I could find: http://www.vice.com/en_se/read/north-koreas-first-racing-video-game-is-terrible


http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/c673c8e64783fd170ffc728b3189e2b9.jpg

[Red October1984]

I know what I'm about to say will become a flak magnet. Here's fair warning.

One of these days, I hope they put some action into those words. Anyone can talk. When they attack us, we'll just send in the troops and end this once and for all. We should've finished Korea in the 50's.

OPINION OPINION OPINION! I know that war is never the answer and that we shouldn't send our boys off to die. (I'm about to that age where I'd probably be going.) I don't want a big war to happen....but North Korea has it coming.

Once again. Strictly my opinion! The DPRK needs to go. :nope:

[geetrue]

What does this look like to you?:




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/03/2013-03-25T050307Z_01_PYO04_RTRIDSP_3_KOREA-NORTH.jpg

Kim Jong Un inspects “new” military technology made by unit 1501 of the Korean People’s Army


The photo at the top of this page helps to make my point, but first a bit of background.
It is true that the North Korean military is very big, one of the world’s largest standing armies: 1.1 million troops! 4,200 tanks! 820 fighter jets! It’s also, by virtue of Pyongyang’s “military first” policies, perhaps the most privileged and best funded arm of the state, maybe outside of Kim Jong Un’s personal piggy banks.
Even the military’s size and political backing, though, can’t make up for North Korea’s isolation and impoverishment. Most of those fighter jets, for example, will never take off because the regime can’t afford enough fuel to fill them up. Even if they could somehow procure enough jet fuel, the fighters “would have been shot out of the sky in the first few hours of a conflict,” Dartmouth professor and North Korea-watcher Jennifer Lind told NPR recently (http://www.npr.org/2013/03/09/173839660/how-credible-are-north-koreas-threats). The tanks, likewise, are old and inferior.
North Korean propaganda frequently tries to make the case that, not only is their national army fearless and enormous, but it’s also breathtakingly advanced. This propaganda is for domestic consumption, of course, but seeing it from the outside is a nice reminder of the wide technological gap between North Korea and its neighbors South Korea and Japan, not to mention the United States.
Take the above photo, just released by North Korean state media from leader Kim Jong Un’s big trip to visit Unit 1501 of the Korean People’s Army, which is reportedly developing new and exciting military technology.

[Oberon]

Uh oh, they've discovered the Spectrum ZX!


@RO1984
The only problem with 'finishing the job from 1950' is that by unifying Korea, you break Korea. When the wall came down in 1989, there was jubilation across Europe, except for a few select individuals who were reluctant to see it go, not for any irrational hatred towards Germans, but because they knew that now someone would have to try and knit together two countries that have a development gap of thirty to forty years between each other, together into some sort of cohesive manner.
Even today, twenty four years on, there is still a large gap in sociological well being between the people of West Germany and East Germany, the physical wall may have come down, but there's still a wall there, and it'll be that way for a few years to come.
If North and South Korea unite, it will be thousands of times worse, North Korea makes East Germany look like Coruscant. There will be millions of people putting a massive strain on a Korean economy which has already been hit by the global recession. It would probably collapse overnight and take most of Asia with it. So it would be somewhat of a pyrrhic victory, but would make for good 'Mission accomplished' headlines in Washington, admittedly, because they haven't got to pick up the pieces.

No, sadly for those who want it, a united Korea would be more trouble than it would be worth. The only way to bring the two together would be gradual steps towards economic, technological and social integration with assistance from both America and China. Not very likely to happen.

[August]

He looks like a cartoon gangster in that picture.

[reignofdeath]

This picture about made me fall out of my seat laughing. :har:

Take special notice of the BIG RED BUTTON.

What does this look like to you?:




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/03/2013-03-25T050307Z_01_PYO04_RTRIDSP_3_KOREA-NORTH.jpg

Kim Jong Un inspects “new” military technology made by unit 1501 of the Korean People’s Army

[August]

This picture about made me fall out of my seat laughing. :har:

Take special notice of the BIG RED BUTTON.

:haha:

But seriously that is a trackball mouse. I don't know if they still even make those things.

[Oberon]

:haha:

But seriously that is a trackball mouse. I don't know if they still even make those things.

When I first met my wife, she had a computer with a 32MB graphics card and a trackball mouse. Much to my horror.
Needless to say, I helped her see the error of her ways. :03:

[Simmy]

Well Daddy made him a Major General before he died and Jr. never spend a day in the military, so anything is possible.
He comes from a long line of Fab leaders. Grand dad started the Korean War, which he couldn't finish even with the help of the Chinese. Daddy made a lot of noise but other than allowing millions of his own people to die of starvation did little else. Like someone else said, every time they need money or food or attention, living in a country cut off from the rest of the world isn't easy, they make a lot of noise to get everyones attention.
They would have a hard time attacking themselves let alone the U.S.

[Red October1984]

Uh oh, they've discovered the Spectrum ZX


@RO1984
The only problem with 'finishing the job from 1950' is that by unifying Korea, you break Korea. When the wall came down in 1989, there was jubilation across Europe, except for a few select individuals who were reluctant to see it go, not for any irrational hatred towards Germans, but because they knew that now someone would have to try and knit together two countries that have a development gap of thirty to forty years between each other, together into some sort of cohesive manner.
Even today, twenty four years on, there is still a large gap in sociological well being between the people of West Germany and East Germany, the physical wall may have come down, but there's still a wall there, and it'll be that way for a few years to come.
If North and South Korea unite, it will be thousands of times worse, North Korea makes East Germany look like Coruscant. There will be millions of people putting a massive strain on a Korean economy which has already been hit by the global recession. It would probably collapse overnight and take most of Asia with it. So it would be somewhat of a pyrrhic victory, but would make for good 'Mission accomplished' headlines in Washington, admittedly, because they haven't got to pick up the pieces.

No, sadly for those who want it, a united Korea would be more trouble than it would be worth. The only way to bring the two together would be gradual steps towards economic, technological and social integration with assistance from both America and China. Not very likely to happen.


I see your point there. I'm wondering now if Truman had allowed MacArthur to pursue the Communists would it have been better or just another Vietnam-type Stalemate?

I'm not an expert in world affairs...and i certainly did not think that the Unification of Korea would collapse Asia. Then again, I'm young and stupid. What do I know? :arrgh!:

I don't want to see us fight the DPRK...but at the same time I do. I don't know how I feel about this yet. I just know that the DPRK seem to like (attempting to) talking tough.

[Oberon]

I see your point there. I'm wondering now if Truman had allowed MacArthur to pursue the Communists would it have been better or just another Vietnam-type Stalemate?

I'm not an expert in world affairs...and i certainly did not think that the Unification of Korea would collapse Asia. Then again, I'm young and stupid. What do I know? :arrgh!:

I don't want to see us fight the DPRK...but at the same time I do. I don't know how I feel about this yet. I just know that the DPRK seem to like (attempting to) talking tough.

You're young, not stupid, when I was your age I didn't consider the whole picture either. In fact it didn't really occur to me until about two or three years ago whilst roleplaying on another forum as the leader of the PRC and having to deal with the DPRK, trying to keep it on a short leash whilst distancing myself from it in the international arena. A balancing act that any circus performer would be proud of.
The DPRK is talking tough because it's about the only option left to it at the moment, it's painted itself into a corner and into a position where it can't back down and lose vital political face (which would be a death sentence for the young Kim) but at the same time if it pushes any harder then it runs the real risk of receiving a big smack in the face from South Korea. When the North shelled that island, Yeonpyeong, I think it was, or something similar, the South retaliated with a barrage that did significant damage to the DPRK artillery and killed dozens, if not low hundreds.
The DPRK is at a stalemate because it has lost the advantage, the only advantage that it has against South Korea is its nuclear weapons, and at the moment they have no way to deliver them. If and when they are able to make the weapons small enough to fit on one of their missiles, then the playing field will change a bit, however the ROK will likely seek to come under the American nuclear umbrella, like Japan, so that any nuclear attack on Seoul will result in an American warhead making a visit to Pyongyang shortly afterwards.

It cannot be ruled out that the North will go the whole hog and launch an invasion of the South, it can never be ruled out because we don't know enough about the leadership and command structure of the North and the people within it. One thing is for certain though, the generation that fought the first Korean war are dying out, and the generations that have lived in relative peace on both sides of the DMZ have forgotten the face of war, and are letting their emotions get the better of them. It's often said that the reason that the US is in South Korea is to stop South Korea invading the North, not the other way around, and from what I've heard, I can't disagree with those who have said it.

[Reece]

If Kim Jong Un reads this thread he is going to get awfully peeved! might cause him to push that red button, or at least play with it!!:hmmm:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Track ball mice are still made, used by people who can't grip a standard mouse for whatever reason.

And there's sure a lot of switches for his game of Pong.

[STEED]

SEOUL (Reuters) - Reclusive North Korea is to cut the last channel of communications with the South because war could break out at "any moment", it said on Wednesday, days of after warning the United States and South Korea of nuclear attack.

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-cut-channels-south-war-may-break-090941398.html

Moving closer or just another..:hmmm:

[Rhodes]

The main question is: will they do something before Easter or after Easter?

[Red October1984]

The main question is: will they do something before Easter or after Easter?

It's anyone's guess at this point. :hmm2:

[gimpy117]

What does this look like to you?:




http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/03/2013-03-25T050307Z_01_PYO04_RTRIDSP_3_KOREA-NORTH.jpg

Kim Jong Un inspects “new” military technology made by unit 1501 of the Korean People’s Army

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Missile_Command_flyer.jpg

[Rhodes]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Missile_Command_flyer.jpg

still better then this
http://www.technewsdaily.com/images/i/000/010/223/original/north-korea-game-traffic-girl-02.jpg?1356027237

[Herr-Berbunch]

The main question is: will they do something before Easter or after Easter?

If the rest of the world is like the UK then an attack late Thursday or early Friday would work best, everyone will have gone home and nobody will want to go back until after their time off - Tuesday before you get a full response. :yep:

[Synthfg]

The main question is: will they do something before Easter or after Easter?
If they have gone as far as fueling their missiles then they need to do something in the next day or two else they will need to de-fuel and service them which could take weeks

[Jimbuna]

Looks to me like he's just been given a new games console :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

According to some photographic experts this is photoshopped and only one landing craft actually ever existed :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/did-north-korea-photoshop-its-sabrerattling-marine-landings-photograph-8551760.html

[AVGWarhawk]

According to some photographic experts this is photoshopped and only one landing craft actually ever existed :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/did-north-korea-photoshop-its-sabrerattling-marine-landings-photograph-8551760.html

This was the actual landing craft used:

http://devozine.upperroom.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Boat-Swamped2-TS-125552320.jpg

[Dowly]

According to some photographic experts this is photoshopped and only one landing craft actually ever existed :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/did-north-korea-photoshop-its-sabrerattling-marine-landings-photograph-8551760.html

Dont have to be much of an expert to see that. :haha:

[TLAM Strike]

According to some photographic experts this is photoshopped and only one landing craft actually ever existed :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/did-north-korea-photoshop-its-sabrerattling-marine-landings-photograph-8551760.html

Lazy, its not like they don't have hovercraft to spare:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8141/3727808848a6624c2ceo.jpg

[Oberon]

Lazy, its not like they don't have hovercraft to spare:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8141/3727808848a6624c2ceo.jpg
I'd say that those are less Hovercraft and more...errr...Sinkcraft...

[AVGWarhawk]

Look like piles of rubbish. Not sure why there is a concrete road or walkway between the rubbish piles and the water. I see no marks in the general area that these have been used at all. Ever!

[Jimbuna]

This was the actual landing craft used:

http://devozine.upperroom.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Boat-Swamped2-TS-125552320.jpg

LOL :)

[mapuc]

I was a little bit wrong in my last posting

It was the first time that the Chinese have comment the North Korean usual rhetoric-by asking them to back down.

When I heard it, I at once knew why and I presume you do too

China is as we speak building up they own carriegroup(s)(CVBG´s) ´cause they have their own agenda and they are not interested in a war in their neighborhood, it could destroy their goal.

That's what I think, is the reason why.

Markus

[HundertzehnGustav]

let them drop a nuke on US soil.
would make me interested in watching the news again.

i mean...:timeout:

[mookiemookie]

let them drop a nuke on US soil.
would make me interested in watching the news again.

i mean...:timeout:

:stare:

[Oberon]

:stare:

Aye, someone should just stick to watching The Day After.

Besides, North Korean nukes can't even make it to South Korean soil, let alone American. :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

Besides, North Korean nukes can't even make it to South Korean soil, let alone American. :O:


We have the numeral 3 in three different languages. We are not sure where this baby will land. Bad haircut. Sheesh.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02192/north-korea-kim-jo_2192393b.jpg

[geetrue]

It has been reported that the fighter planes of North Korea don't have enough fuel to be refueled ... which leaves them on a one way trip anyway.

This is crazy ... we should just fund all of the refugee people that would runaway to China if there was a war and save ourselves a whole lot of money.

Just tell China we will pick up the tab and then drop coupons for free food at the border ...

we save 60,000 troops and feed the hungry at the same time :up:

[Jimbuna]

It has been reported that the fighter planes of North Korea don't have enough fuel to be refueled ... which leaves them on a one way trip anyway.

This is crazy ... we should just fund all of the refugee people that would runaway to China if there was a war and save ourselves a whole lot of money.

Just tell China we will pick up the tab and then drop coupons for free food at the border ...

we save 60,000 troops and feed the hungry at the same time :up:

^ :har:

[mapuc]

What do the North Koreans think they going to win by doing this?

They must know that, it is a suicide mission once they fire the first shot or press the botton

Markus

[Herr-Berbunch]

:stare:

Surely it depends where it hits? You have had nearly 1000 nuclear detonations in Nevada (and one in New Mexico). :sunny:

[Herr-Berbunch]

What do the North Koreans think they going to win by doing this?

They must know that, it is a suicide mission once they fire the first shot or press the botton


I doubt all the North Koreans will understand any of it, only the government and military higher-ups.

[Jimbuna]

I doubt all the North Koreans will understand any of it, only the government and military higher-ups.

Precisely :yep:

[mapuc]

I doubt all the North Koreans will understand any of it, only the government and military higher-ups.


Sorry my mistake, I should have written "the government and the military"

Markus

[Oberon]

Surely it depends where it hits? You have had nearly 1000 nuclear detonations in Nevada (and one in New Mexico). :sunny:

Might actually do some good, I mean, it did for Las Vegas. :yep:

[Skybird]

If the superior side in a conflict is so complex and advance din setup like the US society, then the inferior side needs only one or two hits scoring to casue it more damage and losses than the superior side can ever impose on the enemy in revenge. A Dam. A nuclear powerplant. There is plenty of precious tasty targets in the US that will cause mayham if taken out. What tasty precious targets are there in North Korea? Poverty farms? Gulags? Pyonyang? Would you say Pyonyang is a good equalizer if New York gets wiped out?

The US is extremely vulnerable right due to its complex and advanced social setup and infrastructure and advanced civilisation. Only few other nations have as much at stake than the US. You cannot intimidate a barbar with wiping out his infrastructure - if he has none. But he can intimidate you, because you have one. Else you would not call him inferior, and a barbar.

The charm of lacking complexity is greater robustness. Things tend to fall apart in reverse order in which they got constructed or formed up. Bugs will still be there once humans are long since gone.

[Jimbuna]

You 'wipe out' New York and in return your whole country is incinerated/wiped out.

There will still be plenty of the US remaining but nothing habitable in NK.

I wouldn't call that an exchange worthy of contemplation.

[HundertzehnGustav]

from the south corean side, they do not care...
they have inflicted greater damage.
and in their mind , they have won.

the US's Job, after that, will be to either nuke them again and again and again to make sure they have nothing left but burned soil.
(and cockroaches)
or send men to invade... which the US civilization will have a funny reaction to.

and the world will not tolerate mass nuking..., and the chinese will not either.

three weeks later, the Nk leader will broadcast from a Chinese TV station in beijing, spewing hate against the US, and the chinese will be pissed as hell from the nuke blasts close to its border.

and then nuke the rest of the states.
and also europe and russia.


i say either stop the rhetoric or get it on once and for all - this is boring.

BORING you hear?
drop some stuff on someone's head, or just leave the world in peace.
The NK/Chinese + SK/USA blahblahblah is in the newspapers, on the radio, on dat interwebz...
stop spamming me, dammit.

[Herr-Berbunch]

and the world will not tolerate mass nuking..., and the chinese will not either.


I don't imagine for one minute that NK would have an even half-successful nuke strike on any US territory (SK embassy the exception), and if it did I doubt that the retalliation would be nuclear. Might be an idea to say to the Chinese that without their support in US retalliation strikes they may use them. :hmmm:

[HundertzehnGustav]

if they even launched a nuke (or anything similar, even a Dud one) in the general direction of SK, Hawaii, alaska...
the US populace would scream for revenge, or for immediate action.

nuking maybe not, but then the second scenario comes into play: overrun them. isolate them. starve them.

anyway...
the main point was to say "act or stop talking", mainly aimed at the NK crew.
the talk has taken decades now - for longer than i live.

as long as they do not act, the world should not be
-concerned
-worried
-spammed
-read these messages in the media and be subjected to this trolling

The media are also "guilty" of giving that NK fella a Soapbox to stand on, as he and his crew spread this hatred.
and we pay for these media by various taxes, by paying journals or other means.
and even if we do not pay, but read it in free newspapers (sponsored by commmercials) it still gets in our face.

as it stands, he draws worldwide attention and creates worldwide unease by merely hovering his finger over "da button".


F(beep) TROLL.

i shall put him on my ignore list, shall i not?
How bout you folks?

[August]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea

Just sayin...

[Oberon]

The best outcome would be for the PRC to put in their own favourable government. That way, the PRC saves face, the DPRK doesn't overrun the ROK or PRC in refugees and the status quo is relatively maintained without excess bloodshed.

Not likely to happen though, but tbh, this is all mostly a storm in a teacup, it'll blow over soon. Just like August has pointed out, this is not exactly the first major period of tensions on the Korean peninsula.

[Hottentot]

:stare:

Not that I don't find the comment tasteless, while not the least bit surprising, such comments are still not uncommon when it comes to many other parts of the world. I have seen "Nuke them LOL" blurts at least when the topic was...let's see...Israel, Africa, Middle East, North Korea (Surprise!) or, I don't know, any freaking part of the world where the person saying something like that doesn't live in and which doesn't concern him personally. We just somehow seem to accept it much more easily when it's said about places like those.

[Skybird]

You 'wipe out' New York and in return your whole country is incinerated/wiped out.

There will still be plenty of the US remaining but nothing habitable in NK.

I wouldn't call that an exchange worthy of contemplation.
You do not get the argument. Even destroying all of NK I would not consider a sufficiently precious "compensation" for the destruction of N.Y. NY economically simply is much more worth, its loss causes much more costly consequences than the destruction of NK. It's loss scores heavier due to the many side effects. Thus: the US has more to loose and less to win than the NK leadership once NK atomic missiles could reach NY. Or LA.

Stop implying the other side runs by the same rationals than you do. ;) It's a mistake to always assume the other side necessarily ticks the same way like you do yourself. Hitler. Assad. Saddam. Gaddafhi. Had they any scruples to sacrifice their own people and countries in their name?

[August]

You do not get the argument. Even destroying all of NK I would not consider a sufficiently precious "compensation" for the destruction of N.Y. NY economically simply is much more worth, its loss causes much more costly consequences than the destruction of NK. It's loss scores heavier due to the many side effects. Thus: the US has more to loose and less to win than the NK leadership once NK atomic missiles could reach NY. Or LA.

Stop implying the other side runs by the same rationals than you do. ;) It's a mistake to always assume the other side necessarily ticks the same way like you do yourself. Hitler. Assad. Saddam. Gaddafhi. Had they any scruples to sacrifice their own people and countries in their name?

This line of argument reminds me of a scene in the movie "Delta Farce" a stupid comedy starring Larry the Cable Guy.

He's in a Mexican standoff with Mexican bandits ("Down here Senor we just call it a standoff"). The leader says "You can't shoot all of us" to which Larry replies "Yeah you're right. I'll just shoot you instead"

Thinking that some financial break even point matters in the least is just plain foolish. The bottom line here, and the line that will matter to the NK leadership, is that if they actually nuke an American city they will all die.
We don't have to wipe out the entire country, we just have to wipe out those responsible for it. That Sir is real deterrent.

[geetrue]

Stop implying the other side runs by the same rationals than you do. ;) It's a mistake to always assume the other side necessarily ticks the same way like you do yourself. Hitler. Assad. Saddam. Gaddafhi. Had they any scruples to sacrifice their own people and countries in their name?


This becomes even more true when you study the oriental mind, especially when applied to the North and South of Korea.

They actually love each other ... they actually think they are the same country with two different governments being the only difference.

Ten to fifteen percent of south Korea have relatives in North Korea.

They don't want to harm their brothers and sisters.

North Korea's aim is to unite the south to the north.

We need to let them sort this out without getting nuked for our help in the matter.

[Jimbuna]

You do not get the argument. Even destroying all of NK I would not consider a sufficiently precious "compensation" for the destruction of N.Y. NY economically simply is much more worth, its loss causes much more costly consequences than the destruction of NK. It's loss scores heavier due to the many side effects. Thus: the US has more to loose and less to win than the NK leadership once NK atomic missiles could reach NY. Or LA.

Stop implying the other side runs by the same rationals than you do. ;) It's a mistake to always assume the other side necessarily ticks the same way like you do yourself. Hitler. Assad. Saddam. Gaddafhi. Had they any scruples to sacrifice their own people and countries in their name?

I don't get the argument because it is not my place on here to argue with anyone but the point I was trying to make was simply...the cost to the NK potentially obliteration, a cessation of its very existence.

I too believe NY is worth more than NK but the US could and would rebuild and prosper further whilst the NK wouldn't.

[Skybird]

Problem remains that this kind of reasoning does not match the guy who is so self-convinced that he thinks he can get away with any stunt he tries. That is why some people commit capital crimes although they know that if they get caught death penalty will be theirs - because they know for sure that of course they will not get caught.

Also is implied here that the other side is reasonable and sane. I have little reason to think Kim is sane. To me he shows quite some signs of mental delusions, paranoia, murderous psychopathy, disconnection from reality, megalomania.

Fine then, in case of NY getting wiped out, you still can go after him, and sooner or later - how long did it last with Osama? Ten years? Twelve? - find and kill him. That will be a glorious day for sure. NY still will be a smoking ruin, millions still will be dead, and trillions of dollars in damages still will haunt the US economy and finances and effect all world economy.

And then there is the scenario when you deal with somebody who simply does not care whether he survives or not. That really brings you down to the ground of reality pretty soon. May be relgious conviction. Mybe that he is too stupid to understand where he stands and what the other side - us - is capable of. NK is isolationistic by definition. I really wonder whether they really realistically assess their military capabilties. Remember how it was in Nazi Germany. Those generals who saw the truth coming - then did not dare to speak out when being with the Fuhrer. Say, would you tell Kim that he is commanding an army of Lego soldiers when you have seen him shooting subordinates for less? Maybe you would. If you have cancer in terminal stadium.

[Skybird]

I don't get the argument because it is not my place on here to argue with anyone but the point I was trying to make was simply...the cost to the NK potentially obliteration, a cessation of its very existence.

I too believe NY is worth more than NK but the US could and would rebuild and prosper further whilst the NK wouldn't.
I fail to see the solace in that. Nuclear exchange is not Basketball. In this game you do not want to win by just 86:82, you want to win to nil. Else you better think twice whether you really want to start playing. Every point scored by the other side means 100,000 of your people dead and ten billion economic dollars destroyed.

As a friend of mine once put it: this type of ballgame is played best by storming the cabin and breaking the other' teams legs and arms before the referee starts the game.

[August]

I'm sure the last thing that went through bin Ladens head, other than that SEAL bullet, was "Well at least I hurt them more than they will hurt me".

Talk about not finding solace...

[Jimbuna]

You 'wipe out' New York and in return your whole country is incinerated/wiped out.

There will still be plenty of the US remaining but nothing habitable in NK.

I wouldn't call that an exchange worthy of contemplation.

I fail to see the solace in that. Nuclear exchange is not Basketball. In this game you do not want to win by just 86:82, you want to win to nil. Else you better think twice whether you really want to start playing. Every point scored by the other side means 100,000 of your people dead and ten billion economic dollars destroyed.

As a friend of mine once put it: this type of ballgame is played best by storming the cabin and breaking the other' teams legs and arms before the referee starts the game.

Allow me to point out the precise context (see my original post quoted above).

I am talking about a retaliatory strike from the US, should NK nuke NY.

What would you expect the US to do otherwise?

Sue for peace and run the risk another city of theirs was nuked a short while later.

I'm of the opinion should the above happen, retribution would be swift and effective. Either that or face more nuclear strikes and send the message to China and Russia that the US are an easy touch.

Having said all that I doubt the NK have the capability but one day it may well have.

This is not about finding solace but more a case of maintaining an effective deterrent and an effective means of delivering a swift conclusion should the unimaginable ever become a reality.

[Skybird]

Well, I am talking about deterrance that maybe bases on false assumptions. To assume that self-destruction necessarily always will deter somebody from delivering you a costly strike from which you will suffer more than he will - in his perception.

The claim has made or implied that the outlook of NK being wiped out will keep Kim from doing something stupid. I just want to say that it is not wise to trust that assumption blindly. It must not be true.

Just minutes ago I read that the sane insane is deeply worried about the two huge statues of his father and grandfather in the city, because to him they are holy and he worries that they could get damaged once the war has broken out. Say - if Kim's priorities are like that, you still want to bet money on his sanity? I say he belongs in a mental asylum, closed station, security wards at the door. His father and grandfather already were bad. He is worse.

[Jimbuna]

Your probably close to the truth regarding his personal state of mind but only time will tell in the end.

How bad or evil he is again, only time will tell.

One fact that is beyond doubt...should the Chinese fail in their efforts to control him, the US have the means to end the ball game should they ever fell they run out of alternative options.

[geetrue]

Meanwhile back at home ... USAF sending B-2's to South Korea as a show of force ...

sobers me :yep:


SEOUL, South Korea — In a show of force following weeks of North Korean bluster, the U.S. on Thursday took the unprecedented step of announcing that two of its nuclear-capable B-2 bombers dropped munitions on a South Korean island as part of joint military drills.
The announcement is likely to further enrage Pyongyang, which has already issued a flood of ominous statements to highlight displeasure over the drills and U.N. sanctions over its nuclear test last month.


http://www.navytimes.com/news/2013/03/ap-us-sends-nuclear-capable-b-2-bombers-to-south-korea-032813/

[AVGWarhawk]

The announcement is likely to further enrage Pyongyang

Another way of saying tantrum. :doh:

[Dowly]

Dunno, I think it's just sabre rattling again.

We, somewhat "average joes" on an submarine simulation forum understand how bad idea it would be to attack.. well.. anything as NK. I'm pretty sure the staff there knows that too.

I wouldnt be surprised if the young bastard would give an order to start a war and he would just *disappear* and publicly it would be said he had an [insert deadly medical complication here].

[AVGWarhawk]

It just might come to that Dowly. The guy still crapping green and running a country. Sometimes I think he is just a puppet.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Not that I don't find the comment tasteless, while not the least bit surprising, such comments are still not uncommon when it comes to many other parts of the world. I have seen "Nuke them LOL" blurts at least when the topic was...let's see...Israel, Africa, Middle East, North Korea (Surprise!) or, I don't know, any freaking part of the world where the person saying something like that doesn't live in and which doesn't concern him personally. We just somehow seem to accept it much more easily when it's said about places like those.

difference from this one is... i would say the same if it was my house that was targeted by a nuke.

a) a NK+China versus SK+US shootout match would suck big time for the entire planet - economy, health, biology, physics, weather, contamination... that war would be everywhere. Simple.

b) i am one of 7+ billion. so let the NKs nuke my house, my street, my country... europe, for all i care. or moscow. or Darwin, Mumbay or ceylon or kapstadt.

"lieber ein schreckliches ende als ein ende ohne schrecken" "better a horrible end, than neverending horror"

But i have to say i am disgusted, once again, by humanity - bigmouths everywhere, but nobody has the balls to get their act together and do anyrthing. Nuke or invade, send some French/german/*insert nation* Sniper team to take out that Loudmouthing NK Kid
or send a suicide bomber to give his life for a new north corea and a handsfull of b*ches in heaven.

The Leadership of the world needs the NK "asshats" so that it can point a finger at someone.

It needs the NK to remain in that position... to maintain their mantra of
"our democracy and our freedom are better than the NK way of life, so be happy with what you have, do not complain of us robbing you!"

NK the scapegoat.
And the world falls to the lies and smokescreen.
Again.

Pathetic.

[geetrue]

Perhaps we should take this guy more seriously ... :smug:


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02521/north-korea-astron_2521040k.jpg

and send him to the moon :up:

[Dowly]

It just might come to that Dowly. The guy still crapping green and running a country. Sometimes I think he is just a puppet.

I thought the same of his father. Nothing to gain by attacking. Just being pissy due to
all the US & SK cooperation.

Or maybe they are trying to provoke an pre-emptive strike, like the young bastard someone said (Skybird?) had looked at the statues of his father.
Now, if someone in the west would have an itchy trigger finger, that could be
"evidence" that NK is actually going to do something.

I personally dont believe they are going to do anything, nothing to gain but death. And they arent getting 72 virgins are they? :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Dunno, I think it's just sabre rattling again.

We, somewhat "average joes" on an submarine simulation forum understand how bad idea it would be to attack.. well.. anything as NK. I'm pretty sure the staff there knows that too.

I wouldnt be surprised if the young bastard would give an order to start a war and he would just *disappear* and publicly it would be said he had an [insert deadly medical complication here].

:up:

Breaking the status quo is bad news for the DPRK, PRC, ROK and US, so it's in everyones best interests to just dance around the situation until the DPRK has had enough of sabre rattling and settles back down again.
My prediction is that this will occur when they get their first nuclear missile. They will then argue for a set number of missiles on the basis that 'The US has x number of nuclear weapons, India has x number of nuclear weapons, even a tiny island like the UK has x number of nuclear weapons, therefore it's only logical that we are also allowed y number of nuclear weapons', there will be some wrangling and politicking, but since the US can't put the nuclear genie back in the bottle, they will bash out a new NPT which doesn't only include states before 1968, and the DPRK will rejoin it.
Meanwhile the ROK will come under the US nuclear umbrella, as well Japan (if it isn't already) and a cubic shed ton of anti-ballistic missiles will make their way to Japan and the ROK as well as the US west coast.
There's a possibility the ROK will start up its nuclear program again, likewise Japan, but that's a 50/50, they might equally be happy to trust America to retaliate for them, or they might take the French route.
Either way, the DPRK will know that it cannot conduct a like for like attack on America without the person who ordered the attack being killed within a month after it (or...if they're very good at playing hide and seek, ten years) but they WILL be killed. It took the US ten years to kill the person behind an attack that killed just 3000 people, do you really think a person who killed 3 million would live the rest of their life in freedom and riches?

[Jimbuna]

And they arent getting 72 virgins are they? :hmmm:

They don't have enough food stocks to feed them :hmmm:

[Dowly]

They don't have enough food stocks to feed them :hmmm:

You make a good point. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

You make a good point. :hmmm:

I'll send them a food parcel if they'll send me a legally aged virgin....just don't tell mrs buna :)

[geetrue]

How can you tell if she is a legally aged virgin for crying out loud :D

You know how those North Koreans lie :o

[TLAM Strike]

Meanwhile back at home ... USAF sending B-2's to South Korea as a show of force ...

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3472/posterb2koreanflyover46.jpg

[mapuc]

Have just read the swedish newspaper Expressen and according to them, the North korean could attack during the night(it's 3 am here)

They have put their missil and rockets on standby

Well let see

Markus

[Webster]

I say dare north korea to blow up California and when they do and everyone there is gone we send them a thank you note for making our country better and stronger.

its a win-win for us because they get nothing and we get rid of a large population of people who hate America and what makes it great, just wait until both nancy polosy and diane feinstein are there.

jk, don't go having a cow over it.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Perhaps we should take this guy more seriously ... :smug:


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02521/north-korea-astron_2521040k.jpg

and send him to the moon :up:


one way trip please.
and no suit.
on the outside of the rocket, and a lot of cameras to film him falling apart, dying in agony.
and pictures the remains of his body, skull fragments and brain matter floating in the endless Void.

Published in the Washington post on easter.

That would be my kind of fun.

[Cybermat47]

Perhaps we should take this guy more seriously ... :smug:


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02521/north-korea-astron_2521040k.jpg

and send him to the moon :up:

Look at those hands. I bet he gives wonderful neckrubs.

[Oberon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21972936

So, they are said to be 'readying their rocket forces'...now presumably that means getting them to the step before fueling, because as someone accurately said earlier, once they fuel them, they have to be used within a set time.
Given that the US would probably let the world know if the DPRK was fueling missiles, I'd say we're not quite there yet...but even so, this is dancing a little closer to the fire than normal...but still not quite at the stage where I'd be gravely concerned.

EDIT: Yonhap seems to confirm that there is increased activity around DPRK rocket sites - http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2013/03/29/11/0301000000AEN20130329004751315F.HTML

http://i.imgur.com/QIVN9wW.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

And they arent getting 72 virgins are they? :hmmm:

Nah, those chicks are over in the Middle East. I think the sky turns red, bears copulate, birds sing Beethovan's 5th, mountains move and rivers reverse course. At least that is what happened when his pop kicked the bucket.

[Jimbuna]

http://funlexia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/North-Korea-Rocket-Launch-Fails.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=funny+north+korea&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=xzHg1rSN2zRJXM&tbnid=fInz_hJpvxwjAM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffunlexia.com%2F2012%2F04%2F14%2Fn orth-korea-rocket-launch-fails%2F&ei=LaNVUYLqCfOa0QWa7oGQCQ&bvm=bv.44442042,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNEhe6Y1xhLuXzv9zn97qP6KmiGqoA&ust=1364653164685633)

[AVGWarhawk]

:haha:

Good one!

[Jimbuna]

Looks like the missiles are almost ready for launch.

http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/1461/imagescacemn3g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/imagescacemn3g.jpg/)

[mapuc]

Just take it easy

According to some of our expert all those war rhetoric and weapon sabeling is nothing but a political message to SK and USA

They doesn't got the will to proceed.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Perhaps his time would be better spent on taking care of his people and country. Playing, "My rocket is bigger than your rocket" does no one any good.

[mapuc]

Perhaps his time would be better spent on taking care of his people and country. Playing, "My rocket is bigger than your rocket" does no one any good.

Couldn't agree more

Markus

[Yoshiki]

I say dare north korea to blow up California and when they do and everyone there is gone we send them a thank you note for making our country better and stronger.

its a win-win for us because they get nothing and we get rid of a large population of people who hate America and what makes it great, just wait until both nancy polosy and diane feinstein are there.[...]

:o Is it really that bad in California?

[AVGWarhawk]

:o Is it really that bad in California?

Yes...

[geetrue]

Woke up to the news that "North Korea is no paper tiger"

Perhaps we should take the young 30 year old seriously.

He thinks like a game player, right?

He thinks that by threats he can keep the USA out of any real conflict that should come between the north and the south.

They run over the DMZ and claim unity for the south to join them thinking the USA won't do anything that would harm the south as they invade with a massive force of hungry men.

He is walking around with his fist in the air and a mean spirit of no retreat is being generated.

His other objective could be for the USA to take him seriously enough to stop the embargo of goods to his country.

Plenty of time to think in my safe bunker here in no mans land on the west coast of USA with plenty of drinking water and food ...

just in case he misses Seattle lol

[Jimbuna]

North Korea plan to attack US mainland revealed in photographs:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9960933/North-Korea-plan-to-attack-US-mainland-revealed-in-photographs.html

Of course these photographs weren't stage managed :)

[mookiemookie]

Perfect analogy for North Korea's behavior right now:

http://i.minus.com/i5sWbHBEUICvN.gif

[Oberon]

Someone over on militaryphotos.net made this post which I think is a good possibility of the reason behind these actions:

I reckon SK & US have intel that there is civil unrest brewing within the country, as the people start to question the power of the new leader. This coming as a result of the struggle they have been experiencing due to famine, brutality, etc. And that they are becoming more and more aware of the outside world. (smuggled in goods, information, etc.) We can also consider the possibility of a power struggle within the party leadership.

The NK don't have the resources to look after their own people, let alone operate armed forces in an armed conflict for very long and without massive losses.

This has forced KJU to sabre rattling in an effort to win over the population and cement his authority militarily in their eyes. But KJU knows if he goes to war, he'll be annihilated. I think SK & US want to exploit the situation by not backing down from NK provocations, because they know the possibility of war is extremely slim, and civil unrest will do the rest of the work of overthrowing the government by itself.

Maybe that happens, and then the UN/US/SK can work on forming an interim government in NK whilst a reintegration with SK is planned and carried out.

Or it could become a total civil war in N. Korea between former government factions fighting for power. Then all bets are off on the outcome.

[AVGWarhawk]

North Korea plan to attack US mainland revealed in photographs:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9960933/North-Korea-plan-to-attack-US-mainland-revealed-in-photographs.html

Of course these photographs weren't stage managed :)

Really....let's have a photo op with our master plan in the background spelling out exactly what we are up too! :har:

Good Lord....:doh:

[AVGWarhawk]

@Oberon,

Very plausible what you have found.

[Ducimus]

:o Is it really that bad in California?

Well, lets put it this way. I was born in california. I grew up there. Did all my schooling there. From kindergarden to college. When I went away from California whilist in the military, upon my honorable discharge some 5 years later, I went home to California and swore I would never leave it again.

Today, I live in Utah, and I don't care to ever set foot in California again. If it were not that I still have family there, I would NEVER go back to it - ever.

That state is rotten to the core. Overcrowded, overtaxed, over regulated, overpriced cost of living, and overrun with crime and illegals.. Everything , from the politics, to the general populace, sucks. There is only ONE thing decent about california (aka The peoples Republic of California), and that is the weather, that is, if you don't mind the air. Despite their nazi like standards with air pollution, it still sucks because its so over crowded.

Frankly I'm ashamed that i came from there, and it's not something I willingly admit to others in my daily life.

So ya, if the DPRK wants to nuke the PRC, they can be my guest. All i ask is my family to leave the state first. I don't think they want to be there anyway.

[mapuc]

The Leaders in North Korea , could scare the living daylights out of us.

They could fire some of long range missile and let them drop into the ocean after 5-10 minutes flight.

Maybe they had a plan for this event, but came to the conclusion that such a step could be seen as an attack on America, and the US would immediately response to this threat.

Next week we are back to square one again.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

An old joke...simply changed the names.

President Obama and Kim Jong Un meet in Pyongyang for peace talks following recent hostilities. As they're sat down, Obama notices three buttons on the side of his chair.

He pushes the first one and a boot comes flying out of nowhere kicking him in the shins. Kim Jong Un falls about laughing.

He pushes the second button and a boxing glove comes flying through the air and hits him in the face. Again Kim Jong Un can't contain himself laughing.

He pushes the third button tentatively and another boot comes flying out of nowhere and kicks him in the nuts. Eyes watering, he falls to the floor while Kim Jong Un struggles for air as he's laughing so hard.

Obama staggers to his feet and announces that he's going to Washington - and Kim Jong Un will be welcome to resume talks in three days.

Three days pass and the Kim Jong Un arrives in Washington for the talks.

As he sits down in his seat he notices three buttons on the side. Eyeing them suspiciously, he presses the first one.

Nothing happens........ Obama starts giggling.

He winces as he pushes the second one. Again, nothing.... Obama starts laughing harder.

He grimaces as he pushes the third one. Once more, nothing happens..... Obama falls out of his seat laughing.

Kim Jong Un gets up in a huff and announces, "I'm going back to North Korea."

Gasping for air, Obama replies, "what North Korea?"

[Platapus]

Have just read the swedish newspaper Expressen and according to them, the North korean could attack during the night(it's 3 am here)


Could attack? Of course North Korea "could" attack during the night. Sandra Bullock "could" stop off at my house and give me a snarlin too.

[Yoshiki]

@Jimbuna:

ROFL :har:

Good one!

[Yoshiki]

The Leaders in North Korea , could scare the living daylights out of us.

They could fire some of long range missile and let them drop into the ocean after 5-10 minutes flight.

Maybe they had a plan for this event, but came to the conclusion that such a step could be seen as an attack on America, and the US would immediately response to this threat.

Next week we are back to square one again.

Markus

Yes! BTW: Do they have ICBM's now?

[Oberon]

Yes! BTW: Do they have ICBM's now?

ICBMs, yes

ICBMs that work...err...debatable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taepodong-2

[Hawk66]

At least the friends in N.Korea know the popular tool, called 'Photo Shop'.

According to this blog (usually reliable, only in German)
http://seefahrer.blog.de/2013/03/29/nordkorea-guttenbergscher-tradition-15690324/

they used Photo Shop to fake the first image, depicted in this blog...they added more landing crafts than actually were present, lol.

[BossMark]

I really think the North Korean rocket attack threat should be taken very seriously.
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/rothwellwhite1/cM1VN_zps16248a5a.jpg
:har::har::har:

[Jimbuna]

@Jimbuna:

ROFL :har:

Good one!

Just about sums it up for me :03:

[Oberon]

North Korea 'in state of war' with South

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21979127

Could well just be another ratchet of the tension lever. It's not as if the DPRK and ROK haven't already been at war since the 1950s.
Alternatively it could be something else.

On a positive note, the Kaesong factory complex (the joint DPRK-ROK business venture) is still open and working. The mood in the ROK is calm, and not that worried, so they're obviously not taking him seriously.

So, now we wait.

EDIT: My thoughts on the possibilities for the next actions, as cross-posted from another forum I frequent:

So, what happens now? Well, there are several options:

1) Nothing.
The most likely of them all. The DPRK cannot survive a war against the ROK and US, in fact it would struggle to invade the ROK without the US getting involved. Its equipment is outdated, fuel supplies limited, maintenance supplies limited and food supplies limited. Unlike the last major war when they conquered nearly all of South Korea, this time around they would be lucky to reach Seoul. With this knowledge taken into account, the primary question is, does Kim Jong-Un know this? Or has he brought into his own propaganda?
Most likely this is a move that is aimed domestically rather than internationally, there are rumours of civil unrest in North Korea because of food shortages, and this could be Kims way of trying to distract the people by giving them an enemy to fight. It could also be an attempt to win favour with the generals, who arguably hold the real reins of power in the DPRK. There is just not enough information to be sure, although one thing is for certain, no-one outside of the DPRK is buying the rubbish that is being spouted by it.

2) The ROK launches a pre-emptive surgical strike, with or without US assistance
This is most likely what Kim Jong-Un WANTS them to do. With this he can fire a few shots across the border, show the people and military that he has faced up to the big bad US and South Korea, been bloodied in battle and then returned to the table for talks. He can also claim victim status, although no-one outside of the DPRK (except perhaps the UN) would buy it.

3) The DPRK launches a limited attack across the DMZ, situation does not escalate
This is the second most likely thing to happen, a repeat of the attack a few years ago on Yeonpyeong island. People will die and the ROK will retaliate immediately, and then things will quiet down again, the DPRK will not fire back, or if it does it will be limited, and the situation will defuse itself until next time.

4) The DPRK launches a limited attack across the DMZ, situation escalates
It is also entirely possible that scenario four will play out, and the ROK will respond with a higher level of force than that which was issued against it. The ROK has long since become fed up at being the butt of the DPRKs temper tantrums and might just decide to throw a tantrum of its own and destroy everything North Korean shaped which sits along the DPRK side of the DMZ. Of course, with that much damage inflicted to it, the DPRK will have little choice but to retaliate with even more firepower and the situation escalates into a full blown shooting war across the DMZ.

5) The DPRK launches a full scale invasion of South Korea
Probably the most unlikely scenario of the five, with the sheer amount of defences around the DMZ, the fact that the US and South Korea are on alert and the antiquity of the DPRK equipment, any invasion across the DMZ would be a bloodbath for North Korea. The only field leveller they have is their nuclear program which is (as far as sources know) still too big to fit on a missile (think the size of Fat Boy or Thin Man) so it is possible that it would be used instead to clear a hole through the minefield in the middle of the DMZ since there is no chance that the KPAF (Korean Peoples Air Force, the DPRKS airforce) can get a bomber anywhere near the DMZ without it being blasted out of the sky by the ROKAF or SAM sites along the border.

[Onkel Neal]

6. Coup in North Korea

There has to be someone high up in the military who isn't insane and knows this is a bad idea. Depose the punk, unravel the craziness, and free these people up.

[Cybermat47]

6. Coup in North Korea

There has to be someone high up in the military who isn't insane and knows this is a bad idea. Depose the punk, unravel the craziness, and free these people up.

Valkyrie: Korea Edition

[geetrue]

Cou cou, isn't that what doves do?

What we need is a Chinese coup ...

China has more to lose with a war near the border, right?

They make money if Wal-Mart fills up their new shipping container ships with their goods. War would disrupt this process.

Russia is making noises, like they always do, about USAF B-2's flexing their muscles so close to their borders ... they don't want American imperialism (a term referring to the economic, military, and cultural influence of the United States on other countries) to increase in their area of the world.

and what about China having one their biggest naval amphibious landings
in the South China sea.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/27/china-military-south-china-sea/2023947/


"It is not just a few ships here and there, but a crack amphibious landing ship carrying marines and hovercraft and backed by some of the best escort ships in the fleet," he told the South China Morning Post, adding that jet fighters had also been used to cover the task force.

"We've never seen anything like this that far south in terms of quantity or quality."


China has been upset with Japan and Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan in just the last few months.

why not North Korea ... they could take out this young upset man, Kim Jong Un, stabilize the area and suggest the South play along with them in a new united Korea. We could suggest it or China could already be thinking without Obama's permission to cause a coup.

It could happen this way ... if this sudden attention to a war like state goes away ...

it will just come back again and again like a rogue wave.


Rogue waves (also known as freak waves, monster waves, killer waves, extreme waves, and abnormal waves) are relatively large and spontaneous rouge wave?

[BossMark]

So, North Korea have declared war on the South.
Has anyone heard if France has surrendered yet?

[Hottentot]

So, North Korea have declared war on the South.
Has anyone heard if France has surrendered yet?

I think they are waiting for the Brits to first decide what should be looted to the British Museum this time.

[Jimbuna]

Probably the best option would be a military coup...either that or the PRC move him out of power.

[HunterICX]

6. Coup in North Korea

There has to be someone high up in the military who isn't insane and knows this is a bad idea. Depose the punk, unravel the craziness, and free these people up.

Kinda problematic when it is the Military that is in power and not that Sesame Street Puppet Kim Jong Un.

HunterICX

[Jimbuna]

Kim Jong-un promises a new clear future for North Korea.

Oops, spelt nuclear wrong.

[BossMark]

As things have escalated between North and South Korea, the Americans have revealed their secret weapon.

British troops.

[Armistead]

Not sure why we give these idiots attention. For once, when someone in congress brings up NK threatening nukes, I wish they would laugh. It would spread through the halls, with congressmen rolling over laughing.

[Krauter]

http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_Korea/70001409

If so.. wow.

[Ducimus]

Technically, we've been at war with North Korea since 1953. The armistice was a cease-fire. So their little declaration of war is just more bluster and saber rattling.

[Glock30Eric]

It is all just a talk to get food aid for their people.


If they go for all-out offensive war then I'll be really surprised.

NOTE: S. Korea people are still smiling and acting like nothing had happened. So we shouldn't be worried. If they are worried and so anxiety over N. Korea then we might help them out LITTLE. We can't afford more wars.

[Oberon]

Technically, we've been at war with North Korea since 1953. The armistice was a cease-fire. So their little declaration of war is just more bluster and saber rattling.

Technically Technically the declaration was the other week when they tore up the armistice, so this is just a restatement of the fact that they and South Korea are at war.

[Oberon]

British troops.

Where?

We have them?! :o

[BossMark]

Where?

We have them?! :o
Yes there must a couple knocking about somewhere.

[geetrue]

President Roosevelt said it best when asked about the rising tensions in Europe back in the 1930's:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/7-2-188/188-05.html


I say this to you not as a confirmed pessimist but as one who still
hopes that envy, hatred and malice among Nations have reached their peak
and will be succeeded by a new tide of peace and good-will. I say this
as one who has participated in many of the decisions of peace and war
before, during and after the World War; one who has traveled much; and
one who has spent a goodly portion of every twenty-four hours in the
study of foreign relations.

Long before I returned to Washington as President of the United States,
I had made up my mind that pending what might be called a more opportune
moment on other continents, the United States could best serve the cause
of a peaceful humanity by setting an example. That was why on the 4th of
March, 1933, I made the following declaration:

"In the field of world policy I would dedicate this Nation to
the policy of the good neighbor-the neighbor who resolutely
respects himself and, because he does so, respects the rights
of others-the neighbor who respects his obligations and respects
the sanctity of his agreements in and with a world of neighbors."




The article is long, but he went on to say:


I wish I could keep war from all Nations; but that is beyond my power. I
can at least make certain that no act of the United States helps to
produce or to promote war. I can at least make clear that the conscience
of America revolts against war and that any Nation which provokes war
forfeits the sympathy of the people of the United States.

Many causes produce war. There are ancient hatreds, turbulent frontiers,
the "legacy of old forgotten, far-off things, and battles long ago."

[Red October1984]

I say let the DPRK try...

We can take them on. :hmmm:

[Platapus]

There are confusing stories coming out about this issue.

First it was the North Korean Army making a statement that it will no longer be bound by the terms of the armistice. From a legal position, this means squat.

Then the news media is reporting that this came from the North Korean government but I have not seen any citable sources to support this. But than again, from a legal standpoint this means squat.

An armistice can't be nullified just by saying it isnullified. There are documents that need to be filed with the controlling organization (the UN).

Now, of course an armistice can be violated/broken by simply engaging in military action that was prohibited by the terms of the armistice.

Breaking an armistice and nullifying it are two different things.

An argument could be made that North Korea has already broken the armistice by way of their military attacks on parts of South Korea.

In any case, from an armistice nullification legal perspective, KJU can yap anything he likes, he can make any claims that the Norks won't follow the armistice that he wants. However, the armistice can not be nullified without the submission of specific documents to the UN.

He can always break the armistice by taking military action, but he can't nullify it just by yapping his big mouth.

It should be noted that South Korea has a new president (a few weeks ago). This is probably just KJU demonstrating that he is standing up to the new South Korean president just like his father and grand father did.

Here is an almost interesting piece of trivia - South Korea never signed an armistice with North Korea.

If you want to read the text of the armistice : http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Korean_Armistice_Agreement

The armistice was actually an agreement between

Delegation of the Korean People's Army
and the Chinese People's Volunteers

and

United Nations Command Delegation

While the ROK was part of the UNC , South Korean officials played little role in the negotiations (President Rhee was actually against the armistice).

[Krauter]

I was aware that they are still technically at war because of the cease-fire. I'm just wondering if this is indicative of something big about to happen? I know that Kim is Western educated, but could it be that the generals that actually hold the power are pushing for this?

I know I read an article the other day about the Russian Foreign Minister warning of a cycle starting because of American B-2 and B-52 flights of S. Korea. Has China released a statement about this yet too?

[Skybird]

They say it all depends on what hat or cap they wear when they say something. If it is the officer's hat, than you have to take them for real, whereas when they wear their ceremonial cap, they only want to play.

:doh:

I think they all are candidates for group therapy.

[Ducimus]

My bottom line is having heard the rattling sabers so much, and having been on that stinking spit of land twice, I won't believe it until i see it. Frankly, i wish the DPRK would crap, or get off the pot already so we can be done with them - one way or another. I have no fondness for that stinking country and would love it if we could pull our damn troops out of "The land of the not quite right".

[Krauter]

I agree with your sentiment of crap or get off the pot. I think that if the US could free up the amount of men and material it has holed up in S. Korea it would cause less of a drain on the military's spending.

Granted if N. Korea becomes unified with the South it's going to take a lot of work to get it Westernized and the troops stationed in South Korea will probably be pushed up North to be closer to China...

[Platapus]

I know that Kim is Western educated, but could it be that the generals that actually hold the power are pushing for this?



I would think that the Generals would be the last ones pushing for war. No General wants to fight a war they can't possibly win or even survive.

My money is still on testing out the new SK president.

[Jimbuna]

Yes there must a couple knocking about somewhere.

Yes, probably two at most :)

[Jimbuna]

I would think that the Generals would be the last ones pushing for war. No General wants to fight a war they can't possibly win or even survive.

My money is still on testing out the new SK president.

Most likely but surely NK are running out of threatening statements....they are fast becoming an even bigger laughing stock.

[Oberon]

Yes, probably two at most :)

That's the ones that are down the back of the sofa, isn't it?

[Krauter]

So what happens when the international community stop listening to NKs threats? Will NK be in a position to push for war or will this simply go on for the foreseeable future?

[vienna]

I firmly believe the threats are nothing more than Kim trying to portray himself as a "tough" leader and the threats and such are more for NK citizen's consumption than as any credible threat against SK or the US. He knows very well SK/US joint exercises are held on a nearly annual basis and he has taken advantage of this to "sell" the NK populace on his agenda(s). He also pretty much knows when the exercise will end, so don't be surprised if, when the exercise is over and the added troops and units leave, there is a declaration in the NK media that Kim and his "stance" have "chased away the runnig dog US imperailists, who fled at the sight of the determination of the NK people"...

<O>

[Jimbuna]

Or possibly even the dole queue.

[mapuc]

Another thing that's quite funny, don't know if one could call it funny.

If you watch the news on different news program in different countries you get different view on the situation.

In Sweden it's like
OH my god, now we are near a war. OH my run for you life

In Denmark it's like
Now this little fat boy is at it again, wouldn't someone please take this person over his knee and give him a good old spank

Yesterday on BBC World

We should take his threat very serious

Markus

[Karle94]

In Norway it´s like: Why must America get involved in something they have no business dealing with? Can´t they retreat back and deal with only their own problems and none of the other´s problems? A few say remove the leader. Give some hard beating.

[Oberon]

In Britain it's Kim Jong-Who?

[Karle94]

Sure it ain´t Doctor Who?

[Oberon]

Sure it ain´t Doctor Who?

I don't think the BBC has gotten that desperate to cast Kim Jong-Un as the next Doctor...the North Korean version of Doctor Who (Doctor Hu?) probably would though. :yep:

[Karle94]

Not my exact meaning. The new episode just aired. So everyone must be asking Doctor Who?

[Oberon]

Not my exact meaning. The new episode just aired. So everyone must be asking Doctor Who?

They might be, but I haven't watched it yet, will be iplayering it later. :03:

[Platapus]

Most likely but surely NK are running out of threatening statements....they are fast becoming an even bigger laughing stock.

You forget the audience. KJU is not making these threats to impress us, but to impress his own people. He needs to been seen "standing up" to the US and to some extent South Korea in order to garner legitimacy with the people. KJU is still pretty new and while he has the family history, that will only carry the people so far. He desperately needs to show his people that he is a leader on his own.

[geetrue]

How about this for beating the drums of war in the good ole USA on Yahoo from Atlantic times:


North Korea Has Issued Its Ultimate Definite Last Totally 'Final Warning'

[Jimbuna]

You forget the audience. KJU is not making these threats to impress us, but to impress his own people. He needs to been seen "standing up" to the US and to some extent South Korea in order to garner legitimacy with the people. KJU is still pretty new and while he has the family history, that will only carry the people so far. He desperately needs to show his people that he is a leader on his own.

Oh most definitely but word must be getting back to his people from those who have managed to defect in the past regarding the difference between what his people are being spoon fed and the truth.

[nikimcbee]

So lets cut to the chase. Here's the $1 question, Will Russia/China support them if they (the NoKos) attack?:hmmm:

[Oberon]

So lets cut to the chase. Here's the $1 question, Will Russia/China support them if they (the NoKos) attack?:hmmm:

No.

Can I have my dollar now?

[Jimbuna]

So lets cut to the chase. Here's the $1 question, Will Russia/China support them if they (the NoKos) attack?:hmmm:

Definitely not :nope:

[Platapus]

So lets cut to the chase. Here's the $1 question, Will Russia/China support them if they (the NoKos) attack?:hmmm:


Or is the cogent question: Will China support North Korea if the US becomes involved in it?

Just like last time, as soon as UN forces crossed the 38th, China increased their involvement.

If the US response is to push the North Koreans back to their own country (ala first gulf war with Iraq), then perhaps China won't be overtly involved. However, if the US starts to move into North Korea, we might find ourselves in a shootin war with China. :nope:

Just like last time, it won't be a declared war between China and the United States, but a ootw that I hope can be bounded regionally.

[Oberon]

I could see Chinese forces moving in to 'reinforce' the DPRK but actually move in and overthrow the DPRK government and install a puppet leader of their own. The collapse of the DPRK would throw a big economic spanner into the works of the PRC as hundreds or thousands of refugees flee across the Chinese border and put a drain on the Chinese system that it can ill afford at the moment.
Likewise, any attempt by the US and ROK to unify the Koreas will result in economic ruin for South Korea, so it's in the best interests of both parties to maintain the status quo.

Whether they'll see that in the heat of the moment is another matter...but personally I can't see the US pushing for a march to Pyongyang, not with the anti-war sentiment in the US after two wars in the Middle East.

[Madox58]

This whole thing is seeming more and more like 'The Mouse that Roared'.
:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

This whole thing is seeming more and more like 'The Mouse that Roared'.
:hmmm:

That thought had crossed my mind :)

[Madox58]

It's the North Korean Re-make.
:haha:

[Jimbuna]

LOL :)

[Jimbuna]

F-22's flew into Osan Air Base today, from Kadena Air Force base in Japan.

[gimpy117]

I say let the DPRK try...

We can take them on. :hmmm:

I'd rather not if possible

a draft aged person here

[geetrue]

Never give up on North Korean news ...

remember tomorrow is "April Fool" day :woot:

[Onkel Neal]

S. Korea to North: Don't provoke us.
South Korea's president today warned North Korea that any provocative moves will be met with "a strong response." The U.S. has sent F-22 Raptors to the region.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/01/world/asia/koreas-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Escalation? :hmm2:

[mapuc]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/01/world/asia/koreas-tensions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Escalation? :hmm2:

Only in using war rhetoric(I hope)

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, South Korea can not just simply sit and do nothing.

[geetrue]

Things seem to be settling down now that Easter is over, but I love this quote from Time:


Time writes that "It’s almost as if the U.S. Air Force (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/U.S.+Air+Force) has moved a branch of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Smithsonian+National+Air+and+Space+Museum) to South Korea," as in recent weeks the US Air Force has flown "Eisenhower-era B-52s," "Reagan-era B-2s" and "George W. Bush (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/George+W.+Bush)-era F-22s" over the Korean peninsula (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Korean+Peninsula).

[Ducimus]

This whole thing is seeming more and more like 'The Mouse that Roared'.
:hmmm:

Or Kim playing chicken with a train. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls297SaGneg)

Which is pretty much what the DPRK is doing right now... playing chicken to see who will flinch first. The DPRK will flinch at the last minute, as always.

[Armistead]

I sent Obama a letter stating he could send my wife there. I'm sure after a week of her chatter, Kim would shoot himself.

[Jimbuna]

Seoul remains calm despite North Korea's sabre-rattling:


Judging by the mood among people in the South Korean capital on Sunday, the message has yet to get through that their country is in a state of war with its belligerent neighbour.
Groups of tourists and young couples filled the streets of Seoul near the cavernous glass edifice of city hall, relishing the warmth of the early spring sunshine after another bitterly cold Korean winter. Shoppers swarmed into the Lotte department store, snapping up early-evening discounts in the basement food hall, while TV channels served up an eclectic mix of baseball, period drama and news of a spiralling crisis over government appointees surrounding the new president, Park Geun-hye.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/31/north-korea-sabre-rattling-seoul

[eddie]

Did someone in NK blink?

"North Korea's stance, however, can be notoriously difficult to interpret.
In a later release Monday on KCNA, Pyongyang announced the adoption of a law "consolidating" its position as a nuclear power that would use its weapons only “to repel invasion or attack from a hostile nuclear weapons state and make retaliatory strikes.

Among the law's pledges were that North Korea would store its weapons responsibly, that it would not use them against non-nuclear nations, and that it would participate in nonproliferation talks -- though the last clause came with the condition that there was “improvement of relations with hostile nuclear weapons states.”

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/31/17543980-us-navy-shifts-destroyer-in-wake-of-north-korea-missile-threats?lite

[TLAM Strike]

Things seem to be settling down now that Easter is over, but I love this quote from Time:

Time writes that "It’s almost as if the U.S. Air Force (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/U.S.+Air+Force) has moved a branch of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Smithsonian+National+Air+and+Space+Museum) to South Korea," as in recent weeks the US Air Force has flown "Eisenhower-era B-52s," "Reagan-era B-2s" and "George W. Bush (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/George+W.+Bush)-era F-22s" over the Korean peninsula (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Korean+Peninsula).


Politicize much Time?
Yea great quote since aircraft are designed and built immediately and only under Republican Presidents.

The B-52 was a response to a design requirement issued during the Truman administration. Even had its 1st flight under Truman, they would be introduced in to service under Eisenhower.

The B-2 began theoretical work under Nixon and Ford, and design work under Carter. The design was finalized during Reagan's term, and would not be in service until the Clinton administration.

The requirements for the F-22 were spelled out back under Reagan, and the design finalized under H. W. Bush. They actually started building the planes under Clinton.

[AVGWarhawk]

I sent Obama a letter stating he could send my wife there. I'm sure after a week of her chatter, Kim would shoot himself.

At the very least he will plant a victory garden. :88)

[mapuc]

is North Korea working on advanced nuclear weapon?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/north-korean-secrecy-on-bomb-test-fuels-speculation-on-nuclear-advances/2013/03/31/f46bda44-98ae-11e2-b68f-dc5c4b47e519_story.html

Markus

[Platapus]

It should be noted that historically, NK has started such yapping shortly after the election of past SK presidents.

[Jimbuna]

is North Korea working on advanced nuclear weapon?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/north-korean-secrecy-on-bomb-test-fuels-speculation-on-nuclear-advances/2013/03/31/f46bda44-98ae-11e2-b68f-dc5c4b47e519_story.html

Markus

I doubt it.

[Platapus]

is North Korea working on advanced nuclear weapon?

Are they working on it? Sure. Most likely

But working on it and being able to weaponize it are too different things. They have a lot of problems to overcome before they can put on on a rocket.

A boat/barge delivery is about the only option they have. They could put it in a cargo aircraft and fly it into Soul.

The value of nuclear weapons in in the defense threat. That is given up if anyone actually uses one.

[Reece]

They could put it in a cargo aircraft and fly it into Soul.

Who's soul?:hmmm: (where's Steve!!)

[Skybird]

The value of nuclear weapons in in the defense threat. That is given up if anyone actually uses one.

Absolutely not. Hiroshima and Nagasaki porved it. The value of nukes can be quite offensive - as long as the other side does not own similar weapons. When one allows the other side to gain them too, then it becomes a value best described as mutual deterrence, which is a weakening in the status of the side that formerly owned nukes alone. The resulting mutual paralysis I would not call successful defense, though, but paralysis: if I allow to get paralysed and being reduced in the number of options available to me, then this is best evidence for that I have NOT successfully defended myself, I suffered a loss and the other side achieved a gain.

Also, when my defence is such that I must accept own destruction in order to repel the aggressor by destroying him, it again sounds a bit queer to call that a "defense". That may be the reason why they said that nuclear WWIII with the USSR would not have known any winners, only losers.

The trick in all this is not to allow an inferior enemy to become as strong as you are. THEN you can successfully defend yourself. Equality in strength may please some inappropriate sense of sportsmanship in some gentleman-styled wannabe-warriors. But it does nothing positive for you. Strength is a virtue. Equality or weakness are not, but are just this: weakness. That strength needs a strong sense of responsibility, does not reduce its value. It just means that it needs a strong sense for responsibility, else it becomes tyrannic and aggressive. However, if you are deadlocked in a stalemate with the other side, or are inferior to it, your options are fewer, or non-existent.

[Skybird]

SBX relocated closer to NKorea.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20130401_Giant_golf_ball_radar_ship_to_monitor_Nor th_Korea.html

This one-of-a-kind is described as being able to "detect a baseball flying 5000 km away".

Even if that maybe is exaggerated, it certainly is a very huge, wide open eye.

And a big, fat, slow-floating tasty target.

[Oberon]

And a big, fat, slow-floating tasty target.

For what? The DPRK doesn't have the range to hit it. Their submarines would be detected by the SBXs guard and sunk before they got near it, likewise their aircraft.

[Skybird]

A principle remark.

German media stressed that they are bringing it - original quote - "close to the Northkorean coast", bringing images of "slightly outside the 6 miles zone" on my mind. :D - And then switching on the beacon, saying "Hi everbody, here I am." :salute:

I assume they do not place it that close. :woot:

[Oberon]

A principle remark.

German media stressed that they are bringing it - original quote - "close to the Northkorean coast", bringing images of "slightly outside the 6 miles zone" on my mind. :D - And then switching on the beacon, saying "Hi everbody, here I am." :salute:

I assume they do not place it that close. :woot:

She's got a max radar range of 2000km, which is beyond the returnable range of the Sang-O, but not the Romeo, however she won't be alone out there, there'll be AEGIS ships and ASW ships nearby, maybe even a 688i just in case, and a Romeo is not exactly a top range boat, and would definitely have to snorkel a few times before she got near the fleet which would make her a noisy target.

In regards to airforce, the KPAF has IL-28s which don't have the range to go there and back, and would be shot down before they got near enough to do anything dangerous.

Their missile boats could make it that far (just) but they'd be watched the entire way and plinked when they got within weapons range. You can guarantee that there are US vessels sitting in international waters outside most major DPRK ports, and drones watching the others.

[TLAM Strike]

Their missile boats could make it that far (just) but they'd be watched the entire way and plinked when they got within weapons range. You can guarantee that there are US vessels sitting in international waters outside most major DPRK ports, and drones watching the others.

or they will send a couple of these:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2081/p0080224.jpg

:har::har::har:

[Oberon]

or they will send a couple of these:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2081/p0080224.jpg

:har::har::har:


Nah, the people are too starved to pull the oars to get that thing to move!

Either that or it'll open fire and explode. :haha:

[August]

Looks like the torpedo will strike amidships right abaft the bridge. :yep:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2081/p0080224.jpg

[Oberon]

Looks like the torpedo will strike amidships right abaft the bridge. :yep:



TBH it looks like it already has! :haha:

[TLAM Strike]

Either that or it'll open fire and explode. :haha:

I take it you noticed the placement of the N-2 SSM launch tubes.

I can't help but think what would happen in a strong cross wind... :hmmm:

[Oberon]

I take it you noticed the placement of the N-2 SSM launch tubes.

I can't help but think what would happen in a strong cross wind... :hmmm:

It's nice to see that fire ships didn't go out of fashion after the 1800s. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Reminds me of back to the future :hmmm:

[Platapus]

Who's soul?:hmmm: (where's Steve!!)

Ouch. That's a fair cop. Guilty as charged. :oops:

[mapuc]

Now and then I had this question I was thinking on starting a thread about

But I have read about it in this thread and in some other thread so I asked it here instead

What is most dangerouse

A well trained crew in an old sub(e.g from 80'ies)
or
A not so well trained crew in a modern sub.

Markus

[mapuc]

According to the Swedish newspaper aftonbladet, who has it from the Russian RT(I do not trust this news channel, so I don't know how reliable the information is)

China is mobilizing it's military

http://rt.com/news/chinese-military-korea-alert-184/

Markus

[Jimbuna]

According to the Swedish newspaper aftonbladet, who has it from the Russian RT(I do not trust this news channel, so I don't know how reliable the information is)

China is mobilizing it's military

http://rt.com/news/chinese-military-korea-alert-184/

Markus

Probably to deal with casualties should the eedjit decide to step out of his depth :)

[Oberon]

The DPRK is currently barring access to the Kaesong Industrial Zone, some reports say that there may be between 450-850 South Korean workers in the zone. However Yonhap seems to indicate that these workers will be allowed home.
This is the first time since the zone opened in 2002 that this has happened, even when the Cheonan was sunk all the DPRK did was shut down an administrative office in the zone. Still, if the DPRK was about to go on the offensive I'd wager that they'd take the workers hostage and use them as human shields first, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

This is about as tense as the zone has gotten in a while, but the slow and steady way that the DPRK is applying the pressure seems to indicate that it wants to be presented with a way out somewhere along the line that saves face for its government, however, I don't think the US and ROK are willing to give that way out as they have done before and I think Kim Jong-un may soon realise he's painted himself into a corner and will have no option but to go to war.

EDIT: Also
http://i.imgur.com/oVcakiR.gif

[Reece]

I think Kim Jong-un may soon realise he's painted himself into a corner and will have no option but to go to war.


I agree, and that is the worry.:-?

[Skybird]

A comment I read some days ago compared it to the way Mao Tsetung provoked the Russian nastily and balanced on a razorblade dangerously tight to the abyss of allout war - the infamous Usuri crisis that led to several military battles between China and Russia in 1969. Mao did so, thought the commentor, in order to make America come to China - to counter the Russian's growing influence - and establish diplomatic contacts with China, which he wanted. And short time later, Nixon came.

This is not to say that Obama should go to Pyonyang. He shouldn't. The regime in the North is that much down, economically, that the situation maybe is ripe to be pushed over the cliff. But if all tensions are taken out of the pressure cooker time and again, then the thing cannot blow up. By blowing up I do not necessarily mean a full war, but an internal collapse, maybe a revolt by the starving people. I am strictly against delivering them foods and supplies. Everything that helps the people, also helps the regime to survive.

As for China, they are surprisingly silent - for their standards - about the US actions in Korea so far. I think they are split, somewhat. They realise the stability that America'S military weight adds to the situation, on the other hand they hate the presence of a foreign huge military in their sphere of influence. I fear if things get nasty, all their previous display of anger about Pyongyang will be forgotten and they nevertheless will line up with N-Korea. By treaties still valid so far, they are legally bound to do that anyway.

When these Southern workers have not returned within one day or so, one can classify them to be held as hostages. The South then should react accordingly, if it does not wish to loose tremendously in credibility. And that would only encourage the North to act even more aggressively and try even more of whatever it is that it currently tries. As I see it, the decision on whether there will be war or not, is completely up to the North now. And one must be prepared for both possible scenarios. This crisis has gone quite far now. I dare no more predictions where it will end.

[Reece]

Assassinating Kim Jong Un is possibly another way out to save face!:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Kim may well be allowing his bottom to write out a bigger cheque than his mouth is able to cash.

[Oberon]

As for China, they are surprisingly silent - for their standards - about the US actions in Korea so far. I think they are split, somewhat. They realise the stability that America'S military weight adds to the situation, on the other hand they hate the presence of a foreign huge military in their sphere of influence. I fear if things get nasty, all their previous display of anger about Pyongyang will be forgotten and they nevertheless will line up with N-Korea. By treaties still valid so far, they are legally bound to do that anyway.

When these Southern workers have not returned within one day or so, one can classify them to be held as hostages. The South then should react accordingly, if it does not wish to loose tremendously in credibility. And that would only encourage the North to act even more aggressively and try even more of whatever it is that it currently tries. As I see it, the decision on whether there will be war or not, is completely up to the North now. And one must be prepared for both possible scenarios. This crisis has gone quite far now. I dare no more predictions where it will end.

The PRC has mobilised forces on the border with North Korea, probably for two reasons, firstly to deal with the potential mass influx of refugees if and when a war breaks out, and secondly to respond to the US sending in extra forces to the Korean theatre. They're not likely to open fire or anything, but they need to be seen to be doing something in order to keep the hardliners happy.

Kim Jong-un on the other hand is being backed into a corner, he has miscalculated badly. He hoped that he'd be able to bluff some concessions out of the west by using the old game that his father used to play. It would have been a triple win for him if he had managed to, he'd have solidified his position with the military, given himself a bit more prestige and given the people of the DPRK an object to be distracted from an uprising with.
However right now, whatever path he chooses is going to end with him being removed from power. If he backs down his own generals will remove him for being weak, if he goes to war he'll either be removed by his own generals when the DPRK starts to lose, or removed by China or removed by an American missile. Kim Jong-un doesn't want this, he's desperately looking for a way out that will save him face and not result in his self-destruction, the fact that he hasn't taken those South Korean workers hostage (they are, by all accounts, staying of their own accord out of fear that they won't be able to get to work again if they leave...bloody stupid if you ask me) indicates to me that he's not serious about having a war, but is slowly being pushed into a position where it will be the only option left to him.

I am increasingly becoming inclined to believe that an outbreak of shooting is but scant weeks away unless some sort of back-room, covert, deal can be struck through the DPRK version of Alexander Feklisov. However by this point I think that the ROK just wants to finish this, and they are willing to take the economic damage that a war and unification will inflict upon them in order to end this whole stalemate once and for all. Whether China is willing for such a thing to happen is another matter entirely...it would not be a particularly good outcome both militarily and economically for the PRC if the Korean peninsula was united under a western favoured government.

[mookiemookie]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6f314f0dfc016484606edc774725e30e/tumblr_mkm2lfniKe1s5yls4o1_250.gif

[Oberon]

(I posted that gif earlier but it must not have shown up since I was on the work computer which has *ugh* IE)

Anyway:

(LEAD) N. Korea vows actual military actions


(ATTN: UPDATES throughout with details)
SEOUL, April 4 (Yonhap) -- Adding to weeks-long bellicose rhetoric, North Korea's military announced Thursday that it would take a series of military actions against the United States.

In a statement, the General Staff of the Korean People's Army said it would "take a series of strong, actual military countermeasures as the Supreme Command solemnly declared at home and abroad."

It added it is formally notifying the White House and the Pentagon that "reckless operations" involving cutting-edge nuclear weapons have been finally approved.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/04/0200000000AEN20130404000200315.HTML

A THAAD unit is moving to Guam.

[mapuc]

If you had asked me a few days ago or a week ago, if there's going to be a war between North and south Korea

I would have answered with a huge bunch of hope

No it's business as usual

But now I'm very skeptic and concerned about the latest development

Markus

[mookiemookie]

(I posted that gif earlier but it must not have shown up since I was on the work computer which has *ugh* IE)

Anyway:


http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/04/0200000000AEN20130404000200315.HTML

A THAAD unit is moving to Guam.

Ah, so you did. Missed that. My apologies.

I keep thinking that this is going to end with us striking first in an attempt to remove the NK government from power.

[geetrue]

The DPRK is currently barring access to the Kaesong Industrial Zone ...

This is about as tense as the zone has gotten in a while, but the slow and steady way that the DPRK is applying the pressure seems to indicate that it wants to be presented with a way out somewhere along the line that saves face for its government, however, I don't think the US and ROK are willing to give that way out as they have done before and I think Kim Jong-un may soon realise he's painted himself into a corner and will have no option but to go to war.


They won't go to war any time soon ... not until after they restart the nuclear reactors, that have been off line and agreed to be off line per other agreements in past years.

I have the funny feeling that all of this is pre-thought/pre-planned as an excuse to restart their reactors in the first place.

This may continue to play out in their hands till they have more bombs they we care for them to have to use.

Plus I just found out that Mr Kim Jong-un has an aunt and uncle in their early 60's that his father has entrusted to guide his son, also pre-arranged before the elders death.

Lots of hidden players here, but good ole secretary of defense chuck hagel has a little surprise planned for
North Korea called THAAD:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/thaad.html


http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/lockheed/us/products/thaad/_jcr_content/product_image.img.jpg/1337362998240.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Let us hope there is no need for the missile defence system.

[Reece]

http://img3.joyreactor.com/pics/post/kim-jong-un-rocket-windows-north-korea-624043.png

[Jimbuna]

http://i.qkme.me/3tmkfl.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=kim+jong+un+funny&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=jenG2Cs7SbEouM&tbnid=Mc07qFLi1f-MeM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fmurica&ei=yL5cUaufOKWA0AWspoHIDA&bvm=bv.44770516,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNF-qEqmDRDsD9EPGDPnaXawjnOm5Q&ust=1365118943456438)

[reignofdeath]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6f314f0dfc016484606edc774725e30e/tumblr_mkm2lfniKe1s5yls4o1_250.gif

I know must clean my computer off because I spit all of my OJ on it. Thank you for that. :har:

[Onkel Neal]

The trick in all this is not to allow an inferior enemy to become as strong as you are. THEN you can successfully defend yourself. Equality in strength may please some inappropriate sense of sportsmanship in some gentleman-styled wannabe-warriors. But it does nothing positive for you. Strength is a virtue. Equality or weakness are not, but are just this: weakness. That strength needs a strong sense of responsibility, does not reduce its value. It just means that it needs a strong sense for responsibility, else it becomes tyrannic and aggressive. However, if you are deadlocked in a stalemate with the other side, or are inferior to it, your options are fewer, or non-existent.

Yes, that's very true. :yep:

Also, it's important to fight a war using all your strengths, and not letting the opponent dictate the course, scale, or theater of the war. The US fumbled badly in Korea 1.0 when they allowed China to engage the troops in Korea, and the US did not escalate the war right to the heart of China. By submitting to the Chinese and limiting the fighting to the Korean peninsula, the US threw away the lives of thousands of American and S.Korean troops. When the Chinese crossed the Yalu, if we weren't going to fight to win, we should have sued for peace immediately.

[HundertzehnGustav]

kind of like "shoot to kill or don't shoot at all", eh?
Interesting scenario, taking on the chinese nation.
How would that have ended.

[Oberon]

kind of like "shoot to kill or don't shoot at all", eh?
Interesting scenario, taking on the chinese nation.
How would that have ended.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/MacArthur_Manila.jpg/240px-MacArthur_Manila.jpg

http://subversify.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/nagasaki.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xmQTJ1cBiFE/T-XvmOONbnI/AAAAAAAAB_4/HHyR6VlbglU/s1600/Mao+Stalin+Treaty+of+Friendship+2.jpg

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/1025/2415.jpg

http://usnavymuseum.org/images/Slides/Ex45-Armistice/korea-signing.jpg

http://data.un.org/_Images/Maps/Korea,_Democratic_People%27s_Republic_of.gif


TLDR:

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/143/1150341449762.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Well they've now supposedly moved missiles to their east coast:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9970859/North-Korea-missile-threat-latest-live.html

Don't gamble too much on a losing poker hand young man.

[Oberon]

Don't gamble too much on a losing poker hand young man.

ALL his hands are losing hands. :03:

To be fair, the missile that they've moved can't reach the US mainland (according to the ROK), so it's probably just going to be a test firing to add to the sabre rattling. Will be interesting to see if they fire it into international waters whether the US will use it for target practice. Probably not because that's what the DPRK wants them to do. I think the DPRK is also hoping that the ROK will hit the launchpad of the missile in a pre-emptive strike, thus giving them something to rant about and use to distract the public.

[mapuc]

Just a thought

In those newspaper I have read and on those newsprogram and newschannel that I have seen, the is a little different in how they interpreter the signal from Northkorea

However there's one thing they agree on, the expert, say is

"Northkorea haven't got the missile that can hit Westcoast of USA

But, what if they have...Just a thought

If I was the president I would take every reservations in case if...

Markus

[Oberon]

Just a thought

In those newspaper I have read and on those newsprogram and newschannel that I have seen, the is a little different in how they interpreter the signal from Northkorea

However there's one thing they agree on, the expert, say is

"Northkorea haven't got the missile that can hit Westcoast of USA

But, what if they have...Just a thought

If I was the president I would take every reservations in case if...

Markus

Well, that would be why there are missile interceptors from Seattle to Seoul. :03: Any sign of a rocket like a Taepodong II going up then it'll be BMD playtime.

I mean, look, even Frau Kaleun is helping the US Navy out!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/FM-8_logo_final.jpg/622px-FM-8_logo_final.jpg

[mapuc]

Ups

Forgot all about that

If the war breaks out I hope that the Aegis missil defense and the THAAD have 100% hit.

Markus

[frau kaleun]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/FM-8_logo_final.jpg/622px-FM-8_logo_final.jpg

:hmm2:

Looks like I just took another level in Block. :haha: