Rat out thy neighbor

[yubba]

If you didn't have a good reason to leave New York State here's a good one http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/03/21/ny-offers-500-reward-for-reporting-illegal-gun-owners-psa-imminent-56823

[Jimbuna]

Could well cause a few shootings if the article is genuine.

[Buddahaid]

http://www.infowars.com/images2/ps/100605watchful.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

If you didn't have a good reason to leave New York State here's a good one http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/03/21/ny-offers-500-reward-for-reporting-illegal-gun-owners-psa-imminent-56823

Leave because you might be picked up for owning a illegal firearm or as Jim said, could get someone shot?

[mookiemookie]

Did I miss the new "every thread in GT must be related to guns" rule?

[AVGWarhawk]

There was a memo somewhere around here. :O:

[Tribesman]

Did I miss the new "every thread in GT must be related to guns" rule?
Its a compensation thing.
After the stunning revelation that people who don't love guns are gay there is a need for some people to show they love guns.

[AVGWarhawk]

Its a compensation thing.
After the stunning revelation that people who don't love guns are gay there is a need for some people to show they love guns.

:har:

Sometimes you just crack me up.....:haha:

[Ducimus]

Could well cause a few shootings if the article is genuine.

It's genuine. This story has been making the rounds in several news sources and as well as the gun community. Overall, this should work out REALLY well. (sarchasm) Kinda like that what was described in the "gun police" thread.

Like i keep saying, yesterday the Patriot act and the NDAA. Today the second amendment, and if successful, as in New York, tomorrow the 4th amendment.

[TLAM Strike]

Kind of makes me wonder how such a system would work from a technology standpoint.

Could someone with a computer using a VOIP system and a macro simply keep auto-dialing to tie up the hotline? :hmmm:

One thing is for sure, 4 Bittersweet Lane in Mount Kisco New York is going to be mentioned in a lot of tips on that line! :haha:

[Wolferz]

Glad I don't live in New York.:down:

[Ducimus]

Glad I don't live in New York.:down:

If moneybags Bloomerg has his way, the whole country will be like new york.

[AVGWarhawk]

It's genuine. This story has been making the rounds in several news sources and as well as the gun community. Overall, this should work out REALLY well. (sarchasm) Kinda like that what was described in the "gun police" thread.

Like i keep saying, yesterday the Patriot act and the NDAA. Today the second amendment, and if successful, as in New York, tomorrow the 4th amendment.

This is coming from a state that looked to eliminate the Big Gulp. Some folks in the head office need to go.

[TLAM Strike]

This is coming from a state that looked to eliminate the Big Gulp. Actually that was NYC, not NYS, plus that law was struck down in the NY Supreme Court (Actually the 3rd highest court in NY just FWI). :03:

We don't like being confused with NYC here in Upstate. :stare:

[Ducimus]

This is coming from a state that looked to eliminate the Big Gulp. Some folks in the head office need to go.

I sincerely hope they do go. I have no love of the democrats, or republicans, conservatives, progressives, left or right. I do however, feel strongly about the constitution and the bill of rights. I honestly don't care what either side does politically, but when they start rewriting or interpreting our civil liberties to suit their own desires, goals, and agendas - I take strong issue with that. When the patriot act and NDAA passed, i was asleep. I Didn't care. I put my trust into our government that it was doing the right thing. But when things starting to hit directly into my household, i woke up and changed my mind about that.

Yeah, I know i look like a total gun nut to people here, and honestly could care less. In my opinion, in the long term, this is not about guns.

[AVGWarhawk]

Actually that was NYC, not NYS, plus that law was struck down in the NY Supreme Court (Actually the 3rd highest court in NY just FWI). :03:

We don't like being confused with NYC here in Upstate. :stare:

Yes, I understand it was struck down. :up: Funny part here, NY City and NY State play the roll of not being one in the same. Like the guy who says he is not from NY. He lives in Brooklyn. :haha: I was a Long Islander until 73.

[AVGWarhawk]

I sincerely hope they do go. I have no love of the democrats, or republicans, conservatives, progressives, left or right. I do however, feel strongly about the constitution and the bill of rights. I honestly don't care what either side does politically, but when they start rewriting or interpreting our civil liberties to suit their own desires, goals, and agendas - I take strong issue with that. When the patriot act and NDAA passed, i was asleep. I Didn't care. I put my trust into our government that it was doing the right thing. But when things starting to hit directly into my household, i woke up.

Yeah, I know i look like a total gun nut to people here, and honestly could care less. In my opinion, in the long term, this is not about guns.

I believe in both as well. The rest, well, make poor interpretations of both Constitution and Bill of Rights.

You are no nuttier than the rest of us.

Guns are only part of a larger picture.

[yubba]

Yes, there is a bigger picture it is called control, problem their broke, they'll look to you to take your wealth since they are convinced that it doesn't belong to you, I was wondering what this uthopia would look like, I never thought too see it here,, didn't Hitler do this in the late 1930's, and wasn't this going on in communist Russia, what will be next,, ohh, Johnny has more food and money than I, now where did I put that phone ???? The Consitution wasn't written for public safety it was written to protect your Liberty. I , say ban it all, just go ahead and go nuts, knock yourselves out I'd rather be a criminal than a traitor.

[Platapus]

The question I have is: Will a telephone tip serve as justification for issuing a search warrant?

That would be scary. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Don't give the local constabulary my number because they would have a field day......"Hey, he trained with us" :)

[yubba]

The question I have is: Will a telephone tip serve as justification for issuing a search warrant?

That would be scary. :yep:
Probable cause, will be the way through your door, since you are guilty of a crime, harboring an unlawful weapon, I had a nice chat with a cuban freind of mine, he told me a nice story, how people spy on each other in cuba, the government hires people in a community to spy on their neighbors, people could be jailed or shot for just eating meat.. welcome to utopia

[AVGWarhawk]

Probable cause, will be the way through your door, since you are guilty of a crime, harboring an unlawful weapon, I had a nice chat with a cuban freind of mine, he told me a nice story, how people spy on each other in cuba, the government hires people in a community to spy on their neighbors, people could be jailed or shot for just eating meat.. welcome to utopia

People spy on their neighbor here as well. They usual are called "Community Associations" were members pay a monthly fee so their neighbors have someone to report to when another member does not pull in their trashcans after 0900 or the paint on their front door is peeling requiring fresh paint of the proper color to match the other homes in the neighborhood. The folks report these "crimes" to the Community Association. The groups normally have community laws and bylaws to which they can cite when necessary. If said offending member does not comply, a letter from the law office representing the Community Association is forthcoming. Sometimes escalating to court appearances. We can say that most are not "shot" for the offenses but after the ringer the Community Association puts you through perhaps being shot would have been better. Welcome to utopia that comes with a coupon book of 12 payments per year so you may have your neighbor spy on you and possibly providing some sort of litigation for you down the road over the color paint on your shudders. :03:

[yubba]

Well said, but an HOA doesn't have the right to enter a home and conduct a search, and a person has a choice to live in such a community, which I choose not too, but what are you going to do when a dozen armed thugs show up at your door with a search warrant and say their here to look for illegal weapons and by then there will probably be ooodles of things that might be banned, maybe the Bible, history books, you have to much food in your pantry, just because your next door neighbor doesn't like the color of your house, I forgot to add, from what my cuban freind told me you also have to have a permit from the government to eat meat. Welcome to paradice.

[AVGWarhawk]

Very true. People are provided the rules and accept or don't. However, yes, a neighbor could alert the police to a potential issue at a neighbors house. Legitimate or not. Plenty of folks call the cops on neighbors because their dog is barking. Cops spend a lot of time on domestic nonsense and not hard crime. What will I do when a dozen armed thugs bust through my door? Well, to be honest, I have no reason to worry about this issue. I'm up to nothing other than paying my taxes. I do not associate myself with people that might have experienced or could experience a dozen thugs busting through their front door for whatever activity they are up to. Furthermore, when the cops run my name they will see I have not gotten a speeding ticket since 1993. No other infractions of any kind. There really is no reason to send out SWAT to "round me up."

As far as the permit for meat in Cuba. I feel for the guy. But you know, he is probably eating healthier than the majority of Americans.

[Buddahaid]

All true but it's the reward aspect of this I find repulsive. If your worried about your neighbor having an illegal gun do you need a reward to get the motivation to react? Maybe we should just report all our neighbors in a fishing expedition because there could be money in it. :sunny:

[August]

There really is no reason to send out SWAT to "round me up."

Don't think you are completely immune to it though. There have been many instances of no knock warrants being served at the wrong address.

Some examples from Wikipedia:
Kathryn Johnston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston) (c1914-2006) was an elderly Atlanta, Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta,_Georgia) woman shot by three undercover police officers in her home on November 21, 2006 after she fired one shot at the ceiling, assuming her home was being invaded. While the officers were wounded by friendly fire, none of the officers received life threatening injuries, but Johnston was killed by their gunfire.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-CSMonitor-1)

Two former Los Angeles Police Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Police_Department) officers, along with 13 others, have plead guilty to running a robbery ring, which used fake no-knock raids as a ruse to catch victims off guard. The defendants would then steal cash and drugs to sell on the street. This tactic led Radley Balko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radley_Balko), editor of Reason Magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason_Magazine), to complain "So not only can you not be sure the people banging down your door at night are the police, not only can you not be sure they’re the police even if they say they’re the police, you can’t even be sure it’s safe to let them in even if they are the police."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-5)



Tracy Ingle was shot in his house five times during a no-knock raid in North Little Rock, Arkansas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Little_Rock,_Arkansas). After the police entered the house Tracy thought armed robbers had entered the house and intended to scare them away with a non-working gun. The police expected to find drugs, but none were found. He was brought to the intensive care, but police pulled him out of intensive care for questioning, after which they arrested him and charged him with assault on the officers who shot him.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-7)



Ismael Mena, a Mexican immigrant, was shot and killed by SWAT team officers in Denver, Colorado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver,_Colorado) who were performing a no-knock raid that was approved by a judge acting on false information contained in a search warrant. The police believed there to be drugs in the house, but no drugs were found on the premises, and it was later revealed that the address given to the SWAT team by officer Joseph Bini was the wrong one. Jefferson County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_County,_Colorado) District Attorney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_Attorney) Dave Thomas investigated the matter and cleared the officers involved with the raid on the grounds that Mena had pointed a gun and fired it at SWAT officers, although who fired first remains unknown. However, many have objected to the investigation's findings due to inconsistencies in the various officers' account of what happened. The American Civil Liberties Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union), and others, have objected to the Denver Police Department (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Police_Department)'s request for a no-knock raid and the Judge's decision to allow such a raid on the grounds that they failed to meet the criteria necessary for a no-knock raid.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-8)



US Marine Jose Guerena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guerena_shooting) was shot twenty-two times by a SWAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWAT) team planning to execute a search warrant. He retrieved a legally possessed rifle in response to sudden intruders, likely concerned for his family's safety, and the SWAT team opened fire on him before establishing any communication. The team later retracted its initial claims he had opened fire when it was established that Guerena had never fired and his safety was still on. The police refused to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour, leaving Guerena to bleed to death, alone, in his own home. Members of the SWAT team subsequently hired legal defense and a large following of fellow Marines held a memorial service at his home with his widow.

[AVGWarhawk]

Don't think you are completely immune to it though. There have been many instances of no knock warrants being served at the wrong address.

Some examples from Wikipedia:

I did not state I'm immune. Odds are unlikely SWAT will be busting my door down. I do not lose sleep over it.

Wikipedia: Is a site that anyone can make entries of any nature. But I'm alright with what you quoted. These do occur. But again, you kind of drive my point home with yubba.

[AVGWarhawk]

All true but it's the reward aspect of this I find repulsive. If your worried about your neighbor having an illegal gun do you need a reward to get the motivation to react? Maybe we should just report all our neighbors in a fishing expedition because there could be money in it. :sunny:

Wouldn't that be something? Sheesh... I think the cops would be questioning the guy who cried wolf on all his neighbors but they came up empty handed. I'm inclined to believe there is repercussions for just pressing the golden button.

[August]

I did not state I'm immune. Odds are unlikely SWAT will be busting my door down. I do not lose sleep over it.

Wikipedia: Is a site that anyone can make entries of any nature. But I'm alright with what you quoted. These do occur. But again, you kind of drive my point home with yubba.

Well I started to post individual news articles but found the wiki article had a nice set of examples. There are many many more not included.

I do agree however that the likelihood of this happening to you or me is low but given the huge increase in no knock raids...

The number of no-knock raids has increased from 3,000 in 1981 to more than 50,000 in 2005, according to Peter Kraska, a criminologist at Eastern Kentucky University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Kentucky_University) in Richmond, Kentucky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_Kentucky).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-CSMonitor-1) Raids that lead to deaths of innocent people are increasingly common; since the early 1980s, 40 bystanders have been killed, according to the Cato Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute) in Washington, DC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_DC).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant#cite_note-CSMonitor-1)

...the possibility is increasing.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well I started to post individual news articles but found the wiki article had a nice set of examples. There are many many more not included.

I do agree however that the likelihood of this happening to you or me is low but given the huge increase in no knock raids...



...the possibility is increasing.


Oh, I agree. It does happen certainly. The possibility is increasing, I would agree. Only because of the multiple changes in how security of the country is accessed and handled. It will only get worse as the rumor mills and bad media practices continue.

But let me ask you, of the 40 bystanders, was this some sort of drug house raid we normally see on Cops or was this Mr/Mrs USA in their apple pie eating home in the suburbs?

[August]

Oh, I agree. It does happen certainly. The possibility is increasing, I would agree. Only because of the multiple changes in how security of the country is accessed and handled. It will only get worse as the rumor mills and bad media practices continue.

But let me ask you, of the 40 bystanders, was this some sort of drug house raid we normally see on Cops or was this Mr/Mrs USA in their apple pie eating home in the suburbs?


I don't know. Does it make a difference?

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't know. Does it make a difference?

Yes, I think it would. High crime areas would probably tend to have much more misinformation than say Podunk County population of 25. There are not to many informants providing shaky intel in Podunk. I can not say I have not seen to many police search and seizes on Cops that took place in Mr./Mrs. USA house. The urban setting seems to be the hot spot for that activity. As such, the perception of gun toting cops busting down old door for no good reason could be misleading. Read your excepts from Wiki. Most seem to involve bad drug information received.

I don't know. Signing off for the weekend! :up:

[yubba]

They have all ready done it, if you look at my other thread what's wrong with this picture and the gun police have arrived done by_____ sorry I can't remember who wrote it, a mere picture of a kid and a gun got them knocking on the door and that was in New Jersey, with no warrant, and the refusal of wanting to show identification to who they are,,, we are with government we,, are here to step all over your rights.

[August]

Yes, I think it would. High crime areas would probably tend to have much more misinformation than say Podunk County population of 25. There are not to many informants providing shaky intel in Podunk. I can not say I have not seen to many police search and seizes on Cops that took place in Mr./Mrs. USA house. The urban setting seems to be the hot spot for that activity. As such, the perception of gun toting cops busting down old door for no good reason could be misleading. Read your excepts from Wiki. Most seem to involve bad drug information received.

I don't know. Signing off for the weekend! :up:

What are you saying AVG? A persons life is worth less because they don't live in a safe neighborhood?

I don't think where the victims lived excuses the cops mistake in the least. The government created the war on drugs and it perpetuates it therefore it and it's agents bear full responsibility for their actions.

[AVGWarhawk]

You are off the mark August. You are interjecting ideas that have not crossed my mind. My point in the question is some areas it might be more prevalent in wrongful police entry due to the nature and source of information received by police. Take the blinders off. Mr./Mrs. USA apple pie home have about very very low chance of wrongful entry by police due to misinformation . Nowhere did I say a life is worth less because of the location they live. That was your idea. High crime areas were police have informants, go undercover and keep records of the most interesting characters in the area would more than likely get caught up in a wrongful entry due to misinformation. This brings me back to my post stating that I'm not likely to have a wrongful entry due to clean record and associations I keep. I can now kick in the neighborhood I live is not a high crime area. I'm not totally immune but very unlikely to have such a entry to my home occur. I do not lose sleep over Serpico possibly using a ram to gain entry followed by SWAT. So yes, it makes a difference where these 40 people lived as well as the circumstances. I'm not debating who is worthless. I'm debating the near zero likelihood of police entering my home for any reason. You, for some reason believed that I felt immune to this type of situation.