Civility in GT

[Platapus]

“Civility costs nothing and buys everything.” Mary Worley Montagu


Things seem to be getting worse on GT. It is becoming rare that a thread is stated where someone does not end up making personal remarks, insulting comments, ad hominom attacks, and generally being rude. To make matters worse, other posters escalate the issue to new depths by responding in kind. :nope:


It is really taking the enjoyment out of many of the threads. :yep:


We need to lighten up. We are posting opinions on a video game website forum. How can anyone take any thing that seriously here? :D

It is great to disagree and awesome to learn different viewpoints, but not to bicker and attack. :nope:

Just a few suggestions:


If you disagree with an argument, attack the argument not the person.

If someone posts something that you find offensive, don't add to the offense by posting offensive stuff back at them. It does not equal things out. Let it go. No one is going to "win" here.

If there is someone you really don't like, don't read their posts. Nothing in the rules requires any post to be responded to or even read.

GT just seems to be getting worse every day.

Is it really so hard to be civil in postings?

Is it really so hard to ignore people who are uncivil in their postings?

“One's character is defined by his or her words and actions. To be treated with respect and kindness, one must follow the Golden Rule and extend respect and kindness to others. Not only does our conduct define us as individuals, but it also provides an example for others, especially our children. If we all practice respect and good manners, we can create a more civil and ordered society where a free exchange of ideas and opinions is valued.” - Bob McDonnell

[Takeda Shingen]

Amen. As I said before, it always helps me if I mentally append my statements with ...here on this forum dedicated to video games. Provides me with all the prespective I need.

[Dowly]

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

[u crank]

Timely and very well said. I couldn't agree more. I joined this forum because of the good vibe and friendly nature. Hope that continues.:yep:

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

Maybe not, but it is part of my job to cheerlead for positive change.

[August]

If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here.

I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse.

[GoldenRivet]

i think people are just becoming more and more passionate - aggressive and defensive of their positions / arguments / beliefs.

when your freedoms, rights, beliefs, opinions, feelings, values etc feel like they are threatened or attacked, it is human nature to respond aggressively. even if it is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

additionally, being that there is a fair degree of anonymity on the internet, a person might be inclined to use a debate tactic or a string of words that they wouldn't ever really consider in a face to face discussion.

especially when the discussions involve politics, religion, core values etc

its not just a subsim thing either, the general topics of some of the other forums of which i am a member get just as bad if not worse. its come down to a point that discussion of politics or religion etc results in a warning, and eventually an outright ban of the offending individual. I personally think - speaking strictly as an American - that our nation is at a more divisive place in history than it has been since the civil war.

I had a former boss of mine turn away a man's business because of his political alignment. I have seen people disallow kids to play together because the other family was not the right political party for crying out loud. Thats just messed up.

so lets not go off thinking its a subsim thing, its just real life and its been that way for a long long time.

[GoldenRivet]

If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here.

I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse.

i would agree with this statement... though not all of them are guilty of it.

I agree that they set the tone, on the one hand you cant just expect them to roll over and take a lashing by the membership... on the other hand one expects that they would act with a certain degree of neutrality

not "Oh look its you with your normal BS" type comments

even if true, even if undeniable, i think its not really a Moderators place.

[Takeda Shingen]

i think people are just becoming more and more passionate - aggressive and defensive of their positions / arguments / beliefs.

when your freedoms, rights, beliefs, opinions, feelings, values etc feel like they are threatened or attacked, it is human nature to respond aggressively. even if it is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

additionally, being that there is a fair degree of anonymity on the internet, a person might be inclined to use a debate tactic or a string of words that they wouldn't ever really consider in a face to face discussion.

especially when the discussions involve politics, religion, core values etc

its not just a subsim thing either, the general topics of some of the other forums of which i am a member get just as bad if not worse. its come down to a point that discussion of politics or religion etc results in a warning, and eventually an outright ban of the offending individual. I personally think - speaking strictly as an American - that our nation is at a more divisive place in history than it has been since the civil war.

I had a former boss of mine turn away a man's business because of his political alignment. I have seen people disallow kids to play together because the other family was not the right political party for crying out loud. Thats just messed up.

so lets not go off thinking its a subsim thing, its just real life and its been that way for a long long time.

No, it isn't just a SubSim thing, but I would like to think that we could rise above that sort of thing. We're a remarkably civil forum with very few chronic troublemakers. When we, as moderators, have to ask people to dial it back it is usually because that person happens to be worked up at the time, or even had a bad day.

Neal has said repeatedly that he doesn't want people's speech restricted in terms of giving opinions, only tone. In that sense I think it is really helpful to remember that (1) we are on a gaming forum and (2) that person who you are discussing things with didn't wrong you. He or she may disagree with you, but that is not criminal. You have to live and let live, at least as it pertains to the microcosm that is SubSim.

Oh, and if a moderator calls you out on your behavior just tone it down. It isn't personal. We're just fighting fires.

[Buddahaid]

Oh dont even bother, nothing's going to change.

Just the names.

[Ducimus]

I find the Ignore list helps to maintain civility when civility is otherwise unattainable. Using said list has kept me out of innumerous trollings, petty squabbles, flame wars, and general butt hurting.

[GoldenRivet]

I've only got one person on my ignore list

[August]

I've only got one person on my ignore list

Yeah me too though there is a couple others I would add if I could.

[Feuer Frei!]

I've only got one person on my ignore list

I've got none on my ignore list. What does that say about reading things with a grain of salt and rising above the 'tone' of a post or the immaturity that exists in some threads.
I see a lot of comments posted purely to bait the other person. That is plain as day to see.

Now, if the person being baited with trolling attempts bites back then the person isn't any better than the Troller.

Let the mods do their job, if you want to have more power in who says what or where, apply to be a mod here.
If the application is not successful then unfortunately, or fortunately for those of us that do want to participate in the GT forum will either have to like it or lump it.
That's life.
Be a man and rise above the trolling and baiting that is, i admit becoming worse.
Yes, i've been gone for a while, but been here long enough to know and gauge what sort of community this is on Subsim.
I'ts a great community with some wonderful people onboard.
Let's rise up and be a little bit more mature about things.
This is not a gaming forum with 12-year-olds.

[mookiemookie]

I find the Ignore list helps to maintain civility when civility is otherwise unattainable. Using said list has kept me out of innumerous trollings, petty squabbles, flame wars, and general butt hurting.

I tried using it before, but I always found myself thinking "oh man, what has this clown said this time...." and clicking "show post". I gave up. :rotfl2:

[Lord_magerius]

Oh **** you, you ****ing **** with a **** up your **** with **** ******* *** * *** ** ** *** ** ****** *** ** * * ***** ***** ** * *** ****

Oh wait... Yes, this I can agree with. I mean GT used to be a place to debate stuff, over the last year or so it has turned into a place where debate gets chucked randomly into an insult thread.

I very rarely venture into GT anymore, just due to the fact that almost any thread I open will not contain open debate it will just contain "oh you damn liberal scum!"
"Eat it you repbulican turd!"
Which brings me to another point, this is a predominantly american forum, so if somebody has an opinion that doesn't satisfy the "you're with us or you're against us" points that both sides bring up, it gets ignored.

This is a forum where in most places, these topics would be banned because of the friction they sometimes cause. We keep them open as discussion and debatable topics as the majority of people used to be able to do this. Now it's just a flame war that sometimes resembles 4chan.

Let's all remember, an opinion is an opinion. Just because you believe it doesn't make it more valid than any other persons. Also, if you're losing the argument for what you believe, petty name calling and sarcasm does you no good.

I could go on about this for ages but, I'll leave it there for now. Let's all show a little more respect for eachother and get the forums back to how they were. Healthy debate, not a random free for all for everyone to get their best one liner put downs in.

Edit: By the predominantly American forum part, I mean Republicans and Democrats, not the American people as a whole.

[Buddahaid]

I've got none on my ignore list. What does that say about reading things with a grain of salt and rising above the 'tone' of a post or the immaturity that exists in some threads.
I see a lot of comments posted purely to bait the other person. That is plain as day to see.

Now, if the person being baited with trolling attempts bites back then the person isn't any better than the Troller.

Let the mods do their job, if you want to have more power in who says what or where, apply to be a mod here.
If the application is not successful then unfortunately, or fortunately for those of us that do want to participate in the GT forum will either have to like it or lump it.
That's life.
Be a man and rise above the trolling and baiting that is, i admit becoming worse.
Yes, i've been gone for a while, but been here long enough to know and gauge what sort of community this is on Subsim.
I'ts a great community with some wonderful people onboard.
Let's rise up and be a little bit more mature about things.
This is not a gaming forum with 12-year-olds.

I'll have you know, that I am personally UN-OFFENDED by that post, sir!

[Buddahaid]

Oh **** you, you ****ing **** with a **** up your **** with **** ******* *** * *** ** ** *** ** ****** *** ** * * ***** ***** ** * *** ****

Oh wait... Yes, this I can agree with. I mean GT used to be a place to debate stuff, over the last year or so it has turned into a place where debate gets chucked randomly into an insult thread.

I very rarely venture into GT anymore, just due to the fact that almost any thread I open will not contain open debate it will just contain "oh you damn liberal scum!"
"Eat it you repbulican turd!"
Which brings me to another point, this is a predominantly american forum, so if somebody has an opinion that doesn't satisfy the "you're with us or you're against us" points that both sides bring up, it gets ignored.

This is a forum where in most places, these topics would be banned because of the friction they sometimes cause. We keep them open as discussion and debatable topics as the majority of people used to be able to do this. Now it's just a flame war that sometimes resembles 4chan.

Let's all remember, an opinion is an opinion. Just because you believe it doesn't make it more valid than any other persons. Also, if you're losing the argument for what you believe, petty name calling and sarcasm does you no good.

I could go on about this for ages but, I'll leave it there for now. Let's all show a little more respect for eachother and get the forums back to how they were. Healthy debate, not a random free for all for everyone to get their best one liner put downs in.

Edit: By the predominantly American forum part, I mean Republicans and Democrats, not the American people as a whole.

Funny, I've migrated almost solely to it for the world opinion.

[Wolferz]

The written word often lacks intonation and inflection to a great degree and much of what we speak in type can be open to the perception of the individual reader. This can often be easily misconstrued. Except in cases of direct verbal attacks that use disparaging names or snide comments.

My supply sergeant in the army said it best;
"Insult can't be given unless taken."

Platapus has made many valid points of civility. Unfortunately they fall on deaf eyes when a reader has had a bad day at work, in traffic or his spouse is ragging on him and he is just spoiling for a fight.

Pissing and moaning can be expected more often than not so try not to take anyone's words too seriously.
It's always been my opinion that there are two subjects that will always ruin productive discourse... Politics and Religion. I try to steer clear of those.
In a society that breeds competition, we all want to win, even when we debate. Sometimes all we can do is agree to disagree and leave it at that.
If you really feel the need to verbally jump somebody, try my Ubirats in the Bilges thread. That one's a Sea Dog pile where anything goes and nothing is taken seriously. As for other discussions, try to remember that you shouldn't say something that would get you belted in the mouth if you stated it face to face with your adversary.:salute:

[Takeda Shingen]

I believe the forum is roughly split between Americans and non-Americans.

[Feuer Frei!]

The written word often lacks intonation and inflection to a great degree and much of what we speak in type can be open to the perception of the individual reader. This can often be easily misconstrued. That's all good and well. See my next reply. Except in cases of direct verbal attacks that use disparaging names or snide comments.
And this is what's happening moreoften than not, certainly lately.
It's all good and well saying how things can be misconstrued online, but when it's an open case of being snide, trolling, baiting, being disrespectful and just plain rude then that can in no way be misconstrued.
That's the issue.
Not attacking you, just making some points. :salute:

Unfortunately they fall on deaf eyes when a reader has had a bad day at work, in traffic or his spouse is ragging on him and he is just spoiling for a fight. Unfortunately the rude behaviour can't be justified by this. In real life, if you were to have a bad day behind you, would that justify you to be rude to your loved ones or friends?
Highly doubtful. So why do it here?

[Takeda Shingen]

Unfortunately the rude behaviour can't be justified by this. In real life, if you were to have a bad day behind you, would that justify you to be rude to your loved ones or friends?
Highly doubtful. So why do it here?

Or even to a random stranger. The difference I think is because of the oft-discussed anonymity of the internet. It is easier to take a hostile tone here because you don't have to look the person in the face as you do it. That level of confrontation is removed. However, I do agree with your point about it; that it is something we should strive not to do.

[geetrue]

I've only got one person on my ignore list

Yeah me too though there is a couple others I would add if I could.

You two guys are talking about me aren't you? :o

I can handle it ... you can't make me cry ... :subsim:

I love you anyways :up:

[Feuer Frei!]

Or even to a random stranger. The difference I think is because of the oft-discussed anonymity of the internet. It is easier to take a hostile tone here because you don't have to look the person in the face as you do it. That level of confrontation is removed. However, I do agree with you point about it; that it is something we should strive not to do.
Dare i say it then but that doesn't say (too) much about that person's character then.
Anyway. You guys have a tough job as mods. Boy oh boy. :salute:

[August]

You two guys are talking about me aren't you? :o

I can handle it ... you can't make me cry ... :subsim:

I love you anyways :up:


Nah not me Brother. I love you back. Long time! :D

[Takeda Shingen]

Dare i say it then but that doesn't say (too) much about that person's character then.

Well, I don't know if I would go that far. I don't think that the people that I have had to confront, infract or ban are necesarrily bad people. In fact, they may have been very decent people in real life. It is really only a problem with what they chose to be here.

Anyway. You guys have a tough job as mods. Boy oh boy. :salute:

I appreciate your sentiment. You do have to read threads that you normally wouldn't read and hang around the more toxic corners of the board more than you would like. Every moderator has voluntarily taking that position because they deeply care about the community and want to keep the ship upright and on trim. And it makes it worthwhile if we can give guys like you and others that really embrace what the community is about a nice place to hang your virtual hat.

[Wolferz]

:O:That's all good and well. See my next reply.
And this is what's happening moreoften than not, certainly lately.
It's all good and well saying how things can be misconstrued online, but when it's an open case of being snide, trolling, baiting, being disrespectful and just plain rude then that can in no way be misconstrued.
That's the issue.
Not attacking you, just making some points. :salute:

Unfortunately the rude behaviour can't be justified by this. In real life, if you were to have a bad day behind you, would that justify you to be rude to your loved ones or friends?
Highly doubtful. So why do it here?

No offense taken. If I've had a bad day, yes I would be rude to my family and friends.:03: They often return the favor.:O:

Maybe the best advice to the reader is, "Keep your heart off your sleeve." And be like a duck. Web footed and don't give a quack.

[Sailor Steve]

Oh wait... Yes, this I can agree with. I mean GT used to be a place to debate stuff, over the last year or so it has turned into a place where debate gets chucked randomly into an insult thread.
I heard somebody else say that, except it was four or five years ago. It comes and goes, but it doesn't change, and it hasn't gotten worse. It just has its ups and downs.

I've never had anybody on my ignore list, simply because even people whose posting habits I don't like often make interesting and fun posts. It's not easy being human. I know; I've tried and failed more times than I can remember.

I only consider myself a moderator when someone actually breaks the rules. Other than that my opinions are my own, and I don't expect anybody else to agree with them. Sometimes it's hard to know where that line is, even when you're the one straddling it. Or maybe especially then.

[GoldenRivet]

You two guys are talking about me aren't you? :o

I can handle it ... you can't make me cry ... :subsim:

I love you anyways :up:

lol

no:yeah:

[GoldenRivet]

my opinions are my own, and I don't expect anybody else to agree with them.

i respectfully disagree

your opinions belong to the medications :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

i respectfully disagree

your opinions belong to the medications :haha:

HEY! There's the name of my next band! :D

[Oberon]

I honestly thought this thread was a bump from about five years ago. I think we blamed it on the massive influx of new players from Silent Hunter III at that point...or was that seven years ago. I forget.
GT is GT, people are people, be they moderators or posters. If you want a moderator completely devoid of opinion or comment then code a automatic program. I've been a mod on another forum, and that was with a much much much lower user base than Subsim, and we had some characters there, and it was a bloody hard job to be civil to them some days, and other days I'd have to be talked out of picking up the ban-hammer.
That's why you have a mod-TEAM, they look out for and support each other, if one of them crosses the line, the others pick him or her up on it, and if a moderator suffers a complaint then the others discuss it and judge the situation, ultimately Neal is the High Chief, the Big Fish, the Lord High Inquisitioner...errr...getting carried away there, so he can make an executive decision if he chooses to, but he has chosen the moderators that he has for a reason, he trusts them, and if Neal trusts someone, then I trust them too.

Except Steve...he's shifty... :shifty: :O: :haha:

[Buddahaid]

I honestly thought this thread was a bump from about five years ago. I think we blamed it on the massive influx of new players from Silent Hunter III at that point...or was that seven years ago. I forget.
GT is GT, people are people, be they moderators or posters. If you want a moderator completely devoid of opinion or comment then code a automatic program. I've been a mod on another forum, and that was with a much much much lower user base than Subsim, and we had some characters there, and it was a bloody hard job to be civil to them some days, and other days I'd have to be talked out of picking up the ban-hammer.
That's why you have a mod-TEAM, they look out for and support each other, if one of them crosses the line, the others pick him or her up on it, and if a moderator suffers a complaint then the others discuss it and judge the situation, ultimately Neal is the High Chief, the Big Fish, the Lord High Inquisitioner...errr...getting carried away there, so he can make an executive decision if he chooses to, but he has chosen the moderators that he has for a reason, he trusts them, and if Neal trusts someone, then I trust them too.

Except Steve...he's shifty... :shifty: :O: :haha:

His "Space Wagon" is a manual......... :hmmm:

[Oberon]

His "Space Wagon" is a manual......... :hmmm:

Aha! So he's not only 'shifty' but also shift-stick! :nope:

[August]

I only consider myself a moderator when someone actually breaks the rules. Other than that my opinions are my own, and I don't expect anybody else to agree with them. Sometimes it's hard to know where that line is, even when you're the one straddling it. Or maybe especially then.


Then you should have a non moderator account for posting personal opinions so people who don't want to hear it can put you on ignore like anyone else.

[Oberon]

But does it really take that much to just scroll past the post?

[August]

But does it really take that much to just scroll past the post?

Actually no because you should never ignore a moderators post, even if he is trolling.

[NeonSamurai]

Neal does not permit two accounts, not even for us. He also doesn't want to censor us as far as expressing ourselves, even though many of us do to varying degrees. You can't ignore moderators, for good reason, even though you may want to.

I have no one on ignore. I don't feel I can or should. I also have to read piles of threads, threads about stuff I could care less about, threads about stuff I strongly disagree with, threads that sometimes make my head hurt.

Everyone has different views, and many people tend to think theirs is the right one, even the only possible one. All of these views are clouded by the person and their make up, and none of them are really true (or false either). Me I believe in trying to respect and understand the other person, even if I think their view point is utterly absurd and I want to scream out at them, how can they possibly think that. But I also find that even in those cases, there often is little bits and pieces I might agree on.

Anyhow, I am questioning if we are going to have to get a little tighter on the rules when it comes to respecting fellow members. I try to give everyone as much room as I can to express themselves, but I think the amount of personal attacks is getting a out of hand right now. I think recent events has a lot to do with this.

[Oberon]

Actually no because you should never ignore a moderators post, even if he is trolling.

Why? Why should you not ignore a post when it's obvious that he's posting not as a moderator but as a person?

EDIT: Well said Neon.

[August]

Why? Why should you not ignore a post when it's obvious that he's posting not as a moderator but as a person?

At what point does their condescending lecturing and other personal comments cross the line from private to official? They make every post with a moderators badge right under their name. As far as I'm concerned as long as they are in uniform so to speak every post is a moderator post.

Maybe it's time to convince Neal to change the one account policy.

Neon: I respect your opinion but a moderators job is not to ignore any post made. Nor do I want to ignore any moderators official post, but I'd much rather have the ability to use the forum ignore feature on their personal posts without having to read it first to see which type it is.

[NeonSamurai]

Neon: I respect your opinion but a moderators job is not to ignore any post made. Nor do I want to ignore any moderators official post, but I'd much rather have the ability to use the forum ignore feature on their personal posts without having to read it first to see which type it is.

I personally think it is our job not to have anyone on ignore, but it is something we are permitted to do, partly if this moderator does have issues with a specific member, this is one reason why we generally have more than one moderator watching a forum. I am also not aware of any forums that separate moderators like that, with the sole exception of when the moderators are also employees (like for a game company). The logistics of switching back and forth are a huge pain in the butt (I've been that kind of moderator), and really doesn't change a whole lot.

I also want to remind everyone, that the moderators are human. We all have good days and bad days, and may not always express ourselves in the most appropriate and effective ways. Sometimes our messages may come across as being more harsh than they are intended. But I have never gotten the impression that any moderators specifically have it in for any specific members, or are engaging in trolling. But I also know it may not seem that way if you are on the receiving end, and it can be hard not to take it personally. We also may not package the message in the best manner and tact possible, or the package we deliver may be misunderstood.

[Feuer Frei!]

But does it really take that much to just scroll past the post?
Bingo! We have a winner.


I have no one on ignore. I don't feel I can or should.
Would make sense since how can you fullfill your role as mod if you have people on ignore.
Me I believe in trying to respect and understand the other person, even if I think their view point is utterly absurd and I want to scream out at them, how can they possibly think that. But I also find that even in those cases, there often is little bits and pieces I might agree on.
We have 2 winners. Respect goes a long long way.
It's all good and well being passionate about something you believe in and standing your ground.
But, seeing the other person's point of view and acknowledging it, without name-calling, disrespectful comments, rudeness etc goes even further.
That's called respect.

Anyhow, I am questioning if we are going to have to get a little tighter on the rules when it comes to respecting fellow members. I try to give everyone as much room as I can to express themselves, but I think the amount of personal attacks is getting a out of hand right now. I think recent events has a lot to do with this.
I would agree with this summation, certain events invite more heated or passionate discussions than other topics, granted.
However, at the end of the day, respect should be across the board, regardless of the topic being discussed.

Another thing i'd like to throw in:
We are all aware of the rules of Subsim in relation to posting banned content, and i won't go into the details of what that entails, we all know.
But for Minors to see the immature and condescending and often rude and personal attacks on members in various posts here wouldn't really be appropriate either would it?
Sure it's not banned content per se, but what sort of an example does that set for the younger people, to come onboard and see this sort of behaviour go on?
I doubt if most of us like that.
And, the reputation of Subsim (being great in my eyes) surely has taken some hits with this sort of Nonsense going on.
Nonsense you say? Yep, it's nonsense.

[Oberon]

At what point does their condescending lecturing and other personal comments cross the line from private to official? They make every post with a moderators badge right under their name. As far as I'm concerned as long as they are in uniform so to speak every post is a moderator post.

Maybe it's time to convince Neal to change the one account policy.

Crossing threads a bit here since I've just said a similar thing over on a different thread, but this is a multi-thread discussion at the moment.
I can't speak for all the moderators on this forum, but Takeda will sign his post with 'The Management' when he is acting as a moderator.

Like so:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/search.php?searchid=1537529

So, if you come across a post by Takeda and it's usually relatively short and ended with 'The Management' then you know that that is a moderator post, not a personal one. Otherwise he is a member just like you or I.
A number of members are also moderators primarily for fighting spambots, Herr B is, I think, and so is Jimbuna, although feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Do you feel the same way about them?

Honestly, August, I can see where you're coming from, but I think that you are in the minority in this respect, and I can't see Neal changing something that has been in place for a long time for a minority rather than a majority. I, personally, have always been able to differentiate between the two identities of the moderator accounts on this forum, and I think that many other members are also able to.

I honestly don't have the solution to this conflict, but I certainly think that a little bit of breathing space for all involved would be a good start.

[Aramike]

I haven't been here in awhile, so I should probably keep my "mouth" shut, but ... yeah, I'm known for that...

Just sayin' from just a little readin', it GT doesn't seem to have changed all that much from when I first got to this place a few years back. Arguments come and go, feathers are ruffled, opinions are passionately expressed and defended (including the more creative amongst us finding fun zingers to toss at the other guy that fall within the rules but outside of "proper etiquette"), and in general, battle lines remain drawn across the familiar grounds of old.

But really, does it matter? For example, I may think you're an idiot in one thread, post something alluding to that, wait for your snarky remark, and engage in a back-and-forth of some substance wrapped in the sweet yellow cake of sarcasm (who misses Twinkies?). And so on. We go until we tucker out and the thread is akin to a submarine with a slow leak, sinking until it hits the crush depth of us having something else to argue over.

At the end of the day, I've never met a single person with a strong value or opinion that doesn't feel the urge to passionately defend it. I admit that I'm no better than that. Does that speak poorly of strong opinions? Absolutely not.

It only speaks factually of human nature.

So here's my point: let the games continue. Call things as you see them. Stay within the relative borders of personal respect and keep individual conflicts restrained to their individual forums (read: threads).

There's only one kind of diversity in this medium and that is of the mind. Why temper it's passion?

[nikimcbee]

Then you should have a non moderator account for posting personal opinions so people who don't want to hear it can put you on ignore like anyone else.

We should make you the moderator manager.:03: I like your idea though.:hmm2:

[NeonSamurai]

As a rule I try not to as long as it is not getting out of hand. I do think though that right now these out of hand moments are becoming too frequent. I am sure it will pass eventually, as right now there are a number of rather heated issues going on with diametrically opposed points of view.

[Oberon]

The biggest tool I use, is self moderating. Many, many, many times I will write entire paragraphs, and then I will sit back and think "Naah" and hit the 'back' button on my browser. Often these are emotional posts, and by the time I get to the end of them and I've finished writing, I've looked over it and wondered if it was really worth the upset that such a post would cause, and I've decided that it's not and it's consigned to the ether.

Of course, sometimes some nonsense does slip through and that's what Takeda and the gang are there to intercept. Poor sods.

Anyway, I can hear the dawn chorus outside which means I really should get to bed...

[Aramike]

Really? Nobody misses Twinkies? :cool:

[Takeda Shingen]

Really? Nobody misses Twinkies? :cool:

Meh. They'll still be around in 500 years.

[nikimcbee]

Really? Nobody misses Twinkies? :cool:

Too many carbs.:down:

[Oberon]

Really? Nobody misses Twinkies? :cool:

http://www.laobserved.com/biz/2013/03/hooray_the_twinkie_i.php

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/companies/twinkies-buyer/

:03:

[Aramike]

http://www.laobserved.com/biz/2013/03/hooray_the_twinkie_i.php

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/companies/twinkies-buyer/

:03:Well yeah, but I still miss them!

[Sailor Steve]

Really? Nobody misses Twinkies? :cool:
I always preferred Hostess Cupcakes. Chocolaty and I always ate them upside down, cake first and frosting last. :sunny:

[Aramike]

Too many carbs.:down:Phht ... MyFitnessPal reminds me of that ... so I stopped logging my occasional indulgence. :smug:

[Aramike]

Meh. They'll still be around in 500 years.Reminds me of an old Family Guy episode... :har:

Best part of which was Peter's "shelter" with cases of beer stacked up against the wall. My wife saw that and immediately told me "that's sooooooo you!". :rock:

[Aramike]

I always preferred Hostess Cupcakes. Chocolaty and I always ate them upside down, cake first and frosting last. :sunny:Now THAT ... THAT is a novel idea. Gonna have to find an equivalent and make the attempt ...

/hijackedthread (maybe, no promises)

[Sailor Steve]

Now THAT ... THAT is a novel idea. Gonna have to find an equivalent and make the attempt ...
Of course it doesn't work with real frosting, but that rock-hard stuff on the store cakes? Yumm!

/hijackedthread (maybe, no promises)
Don't be silly. It'll wander back on-topic when it feels like it. Besides, you've just returned. I know! Start your own thread on coming back and then it can wander somewhere else. Who knows where it might end up?

[Aramike]

Of course it doesn't work with real frosting, but that rock-hard stuff on the store cakes? Yumm!


Don't be silly. It'll wander back on-topic when it feels like it. Besides, you've just returned. I know! Start your own thread on coming back and then it can wander somewhere else. Who knows where it might end up?
Thanks, Steve ... I might just do that. I have a pretty interesting story to tell so what the heck. :arrgh!:

[Mork_417]

http://media.insidecounsel.com/insidecounsel/article/2012/11/16/800px-Hostess-Rspbry-Zingers71-resize-380x300.jpg

These things are my kyptonite!!! :D

[Wolferz]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/Wolferz_2007/Funny%20Pictures/SockoNotAmused.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

A Publishers Clearing House thread. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Then you should have a non moderator account for posting personal opinions so people who don't want to hear it can put you on ignore like anyone else.

You do not have to hear anyone's opinion here at SS. Simply do not read the thread.

But hey, we read your opinion. :O:

[AVGWarhawk]

Actually no because you should never ignore a moderators post, even if he is trolling.

And you would like to put moderators on your ignore list? Yet, others should not ignore a moderators posts unless of course he is trolling :shifty:

[AVGWarhawk]

At what point does their condescending lecturing and other personal comments cross the line from private to official?

Perhaps you can answer this question for us? I'm interested in your answer. :yep:

[August]

And you would like to put moderators on your ignore list? Yet, other shoulds not ignore a moderators post unless of course he is trolling :shifty:

You don't understand what I was saying.

I want moderators to use a non moderator account for their UNOFFICAL posts and their non ignorable moderator account for their OFFICAL posts.

That way I can separate the stuff I have to read from their personal opinions. See what I mean now?

[August]

Perhaps you can answer this question for us? I'm interested in your answer. :yep:

When moderators use their single account for both personal and official posts then the line between the two is blurred to the point of being indistinguishable from each other hence my request for separation.

[AVGWarhawk]

You don't understand what I was saying.

I want moderators to use a non moderator account for their UNOFFICAL posts and their non ignorable moderator account for their OFFICAL posts.

That way I can separate the stuff I have to read from their personal opinions. See what I mean now?

We could not do that. My alter ego would come back and slap a red flag on you. :stare:

But seriously August. There will be days that disagreements and ticking each other off is going to happen. Some see it as a personal attack. Others not so much. Opinions are like butts. We all go them.

[Armistead]

At what point does their condescending lecturing and other personal comments cross the line from private to official? They make every post with a moderators badge right under their name. As far as I'm concerned as long as they are in uniform so to speak every post is a moderator post.

Maybe it's time to convince Neal to change the one account policy.

Neon: I respect your opinion but a moderators job is not to ignore any post made. Nor do I want to ignore any moderators official post, but I'd much rather have the ability to use the forum ignore feature on their personal posts without having to read it first to see which type it is.

You're being petty. I have no problem with any mod debating or posting. Sure, they can often partake of heated debate, go off topic, etc., then throw the mod hammer down, I've had it happen to me, but it doesn't make me mad, nor does it bother me. I really do think most of them try to find a balance, rather than just take a hard line, which may confuse and offend some. I think they all do a great job, but they're human like the rest of it. I respect their right to post as I do and be a mod at the same time.

If you're so sensitive about a certain person, just don't read their post at all. I find Steve disgusting and replusive at times, not to mention rude, bossy and insulting. Do you hear me complaining about him or calling him names, no, I respect his right to be a mod on one hand and a arsehole on the other.

[AVGWarhawk]

When moderators use their single account for both personal and official posts then the line between the two is blurred to the point of being indistinguishable from each other hence my request for separation.

See post #67.

[AVGWarhawk]

You're being petty. I have no problem with any mod debating or posting. Sure, they can often partake of heated debate, go off topic, etc., then throw the mod hammer down, I've had it happen to me, but it doesn't make me mad, nor does it bother me. I really do think most of them try to find a balance, rather than just take a hard line, which may confuse and offend some. I think they all do a great job, but they're human like the rest of it. I respect their right to post as I do and be a mod at the same time.

If you're so sensitive about a certain person, just don't read their post at all.

I always liked you. And that little dog too! (use wicked witch of the west voice)

[Armistead]

I always liked you. And that little dog too! (use wicked witch of the west voice)

I have a thing for you as well, but let's keep it secret.:oops:

[August]

We could not do that. My alter ego would come back and slap a red flag on you. :stare:

We all do what we have to do. I'm not asking you to stop moderating.

But seriously August. There will be days that disagreements and ticking each other off is going to happen. Some see it as a personal attack. Others not so much. Opinions are like butts. We all go them.

The problem is your butt has a badge on it which makes your personal attacks official whether you intend it to be or not.

[August]

If you're so sensitive about a certain person, just don't read their post at all.

I would ignore them if I could but moderator accounts cannot be placed on ignore.

I find Steve disgusting and replusive at times, not to mention rude, bossy and insulting. Do you hear me complaining about him or calling him names, no, I respect his right to be a mod on one hand and a arsehole on the other.

Some people like to be whipped with riding crops. That doesn't mean the rest of us would be ok with that. He and Takeda can be rude, bossy and insulting on an account I can put on ignore.

[AVGWarhawk]

We all do what we have to do. I'm not asking you to stop moderating.



The problem is your butt has a badge on it which makes your personal attacks official whether you intend it to be or not.

August, if anything I post looks to be a personal attack please say so. It is not intentional I assure you. I can not think of any exchange you and I have had that was personal. :hmmm:

[Armistead]

I would ignore them if I could but moderator accounts cannot be placed on ignore.



Some people like to be whipped with riding crops. That doesn't mean the rest of us would be ok with that. He and Takeda can be rude, bossy and insulting on an account I can put on ignore.

All you have to do is scan your eyes to the left, if you see their name beside a post, don't read it. Seriously, it's an online forum with a bunch of fake names of people you will never meet. Let the mods have their fun here debating as we do and understand they have a job to do, sure they may cross the line once in awhile because of that, is it really that big of a deal?

I've seen your numerous claims that you're being personally attacked, then reading, I see no attack at all. You ever think it may just be you?

[August]

August, if anything I post looks to be a personal attack please say so. It is not intentional I assure you. I can not think of any exchange you and I have had that was personal. :hmmm:

AVG I didn't mean to imply that you personally did this. I apologize if I gave you that impression.

[August]

All you have to do is scan your eyes to the left, if you see their name beside a post, don't read it.

You can't and shouldn't ignore moderator posts.

Seriously, it's an online forum with a bunch of fake names of people you will never meet.

Actually I have met a few people from this forum in person having them as welcome guests in my home.

Let the mods have their fun here debating as we do and understand they have a job to do, sure they may cross the line once in awhile because of that, is it really that big of a deal?I'm not trying to take their fun away. I just want them to play in "civvies" like everyone else.

I've seen your numerous claims that you're being personally attacked, then reading, I see no attack at all. You ever think it may just be you?That's usually my first thought but it rarely bears out that way.

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG I didn't mean to imply that you personally did this. I apologize if I gave you that impression.

No, you did not give me that impression. I try not to take things personally. I try not be a bean head either. If I'm having a vindictive kind of day I stay off the forums. I know things can escalate when I'm having one of those day. :oops:

[Armistead]

You can't and shouldn't ignore moderator posts.



Actually I have met a few people from this forum in person having them as welcome guests in my home.

I'm not trying to take their fun away. I just want them to play in "civvies" like everyone else.

That's usually my first thought but it rarely bears out that way.

I can see it now, you get into a heated debate, a mod of the forum joins in the fun in his civvies, but the thread gets out of control, so the mod changes into his uniform, comes back and says tone it down. You will now scream he's being unfair changing clothes or that he's two faced and causing you to argue, then punishing you wearing his badge.

I honestly think what you want is for the mods here to have one roll only, enforce rules only, otherwise stay out? Maybe you just don't like someone having opinions that don't match yours and he just happens to be a mod.

Anyway, I'm done......:salute:

[Onkel Neal]

If the moderators engage in personal attacks then you can hardly expect the membership not to engage in them as well. Like in any forum it's the moderators who set the tone, and whether it's their "snarky comments" or uninvited psychoanalysis they do more damage to peace and civility than any other group of people posting here.

I think Neal should fire the lot and replace them with people who can manage to keep their personal feelings separate from their job. Then you might see an improvement here but until then it's just going to get worse.

You know where I can find this perfect group of 100% neutral, unbiased, and objective persons? :arrgh!:

Any forum is going to need moderators. Moderators have faults and shortcomings, just the same as everyone else, including me. The thing I look for in moderators is the ability to work with me, be flexible, consistent, and not fall into an entrenched mindset. You know you have a good moderator when, as the rare occasion warrants, I have to overrule or reverse something he has done, and he accepts the outcome with a professional attitude.

One of the moderator guidelines here is if you are engaged in a thread discussion, you cannot moderate in it. Of course, if I post in a thread and say, "Yeah, I like that game too" and a few pages later someone posts a porn pic, that does not apply. But if you want to be part of a heated discussion, you cannot moderate at the same time.

It's also important to understand that in the final wash, someone has to make a ruling when there is a dispute. We try to do the best we can, with a clear conscience, but no one ever claimed to be right all the time. Someone will be happy with a decision, someone may be unhappy with it, but we all just have to suck it up and go forward. When people get butthurt about something, I can't really do much about that. Just try to behave like you would if the other members were in a room with you, ok?

[Sailor Steve]

You do not have to hear anyone's opinion here at SS. Simply do not read the thread.

But hey, we read your opinion. :O:
Well, to be fair if the thread is about a subject you're interested in then it's kind of hard not to read it.

[Sailor Steve]

I find Steve disgusting and replusive at times, not to mention rude, bossy and insulting. Do you hear me complaining about him or calling him names, no, I respect his right to be a mod on one hand and a arsehole on the other.
I appreciate your candor. I do wish you'd say something, publically or privately, when it happens. I don't like being that way, and I don't like having certain people think that way about me. I try to change, I really do. I'm just not very good at it.

[Armistead]

You know where I can find this perfect group of 100% neutral, unbiased, and objective persons? :arrgh!:


Try Fox News......

[Armistead]

I appreciate your candor. I do wish you'd say something, publically or privately, when it happens. I don't like being that way, and I don't like having certain people think that way about me. I try to change, I really do. I'm just not very good at it.

Haha, you know I'm pulling your string, stop trying to act like you know I'm not. In fact, you're quite charming, is a selfish rude sort of way, but that's why I admire you so much.

You're a great mod, with all your human failings. Don't get me wrong, you'll never be loving as AVG, but I know you can't help it. This place wouldn't be the same without you.

OK, now I'm done.....

[Sailor Steve]

When moderators use their single account for both personal and official posts then the line between the two is blurred to the point of being indistinguishable from each other hence my request for separation.
With me it should be easy. I'm a very literal and literalistic person. Whatever I say opinion-wise will always be just that - my opinion. Moderation involves rules, and I will always cite the rule in question. Unless the violation is flagrant I will always send a PM citing the rule and an 'unofficial' warning. If it is flagrant there will be the usual official warning or an actual infraction. If you disagree with the infraction you can feel free to argue with me about it privately. I've changed my mind on that basis alone more than once. Of course you can also PM Neal about it, and if you don't get a response right away you can PM me again and I will bring it up with him. I'm not always fair but I try to be.

And yes, I will screw up and not do it that way. When I do, feel free to remind me that I said that.

So anything I say in the forum you can feel free to ignore as you wish. There won't be anything official there, ever, unless it's a general warning to everyone in a thread.

[mookiemookie]

My $0.02-

Mods are human beings. They have emotions and failings the same as everyone else. Expecting complete and utter impartiality in all things is unrealistic. Conflicts and disagreements, some more heated than others, are going to happen.

But where I think our moderators shine is that they are good as separating personal and professional sides and they enforce the rules fairly and evenly. For instance, you always know when Takeda is putting on his moderator hat because the post is signed "The Management." That's a bright line rule that leaves no room for confusion on whether he's speaking as a mod or a member. I don't see the need for two accounts.

I think our mods do a great job in an unenviable position. :subsim: moderators

[Sailor Steve]

Haha, you know I'm pulling your string, stop trying to act like you know I'm not.
Actually, um... :oops:

As I just said, I'm a very literal person. I also happen to suspect sometimes that every bad thing everyone has ever said about me has been true. So yeah, I believed you. :sunny:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Group hug! :hmm2:

[antikristuseke]

Group hug! :hmm2:
GAY AGENDA!:woot:

[Herr-Berbunch]

GAY AGENDA!:woot:

Hardly, compared to some of the posts in this thread. :03:

[Hottentot]

GAY AGENDA!:woot:

But where is the muslim conspiracy? :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Group hugs are a good thing. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

GAY MUSLIM GUN PEARL HARBOR ABORTION KENNEDY BUSH OBAMA CONSPIRACY AGENDA!

[Sailor Steve]

Group hugs are a good thing. :up:
This suddenly reminds me of a short-lived sitcom called Doctor, Doctor! with Matt Frewer and Julius Carry. One episode involved Carry and another actor having a running fight through the entire show. At the very end they finally work it out, and very tentatively start to give each other a buddy-hug. At the last possible second Matt Frewer leaps up from his hiding place behind the office couch and points at them, shouting "TWO GUYS HUGGING! TWO GUYS HUGGING!"

[geetrue]

This is a great thread ... :yep:

I read all 94 post and didn't see the "O" word even once :sunny:

Tak is probably the best and toughest of all of the mods, but listen here
group hugs and this picture do not, I repeat do not go together.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TiXrZr00zeA/TwOF4V5oUJI/AAAAAAAAAHg/dekqOzSFJ7U/s1600/Man+with+gun.jpg

You've got to ban this sort of thing or allow girls to expose themselves on the same pages :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

I read all 94 post and didn't see the "O" word even once :sunny:
I mentioned it in my 'Agenda' tirade. :oops:

Unless you meant the other 'O' word, in which case the secretary disavows any knowledge of your activities. :O:

[Hottentot]

GAY MUSLIM GUN PEARL HARBOR ABORTION KENNEDY BUSH OBAMA CONSPIRACY AGENDA!

CAPSLOCK HAS SPOKEN SO IT MUST BE TRUE!

[Jimbuna]

A number of members are also moderators primarily for fighting spambots, Herr B is, I think, and so is Jimbuna, although feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Do you feel the same way about them?



Consider yersel corrected :)

Neal prefers moderators didn't moderate threads they can sometimes become involved in, hence not posting in this thread but watching and reading to be sure.

[HunterICX]

GAY MUSLIM GUN PEARL HARBOR ABORTION KENNEDY BUSH OBAMA CONSPIRACY AGENDA!

Bingo!

What's my price?

HunterICX

[Hottentot]

Bingo!

What's my price?

HunterICX

I'm fairly sure the rules say that doesn't count. It's a bit lacking when it comes to the rant-factor. Hard to say, though, seeing that I don't think anyone ever wrote down the rules before we started playing.

Edit: Meh, who cares about that? I'd rather present you Subsim Bingo: The Extended Edition.

http://i.imgur.com/1ZSDzJr.jpg

[Oberon]

Consider yersel corrected :)

Neal prefers moderators didn't moderate threads they can sometimes become involved in, hence not posting in this thread but watching and reading to be sure.

http://content6.flixster.com/question/36/49/45/3649452_std.jpg

Consider myself suitably corrected! :O: :03:

[Armistead]

Actually, um... :oops:

As I just said, I'm a very literal person. I also happen to suspect sometimes that every bad thing everyone has ever said about me has been true. So yeah, I believed you. :sunny:

I try to say things with so much sarcasm it becomes obvious. Man, I've been calling you names for years, how can I make it up to you? You can't have my dog.

[AVGWarhawk]

You can't have my dog.

I already put first dibs on the dog. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

Man, I've been calling you names for years, how can I make it up to you?
You can't. I'm going to be sad, lonely and depessed now. Wait, I'm always that way.

I'm going to hate you now. Wait, I don't hate anybody.

You can't have my dog.
That's okay, I can't have a dog anyway.

[Betonov]

I already put first dibs on the dog. :up:


What are you ??? Korean ???



oh, you typed dibs, I read it dips, sorry about that :D

[Jimbuna]

What are you ??? Korean ???



oh, you typed dibs, I read it dips, sorry about that :D

Could have really meant ribs :)

[Betonov]

How dreadfull, talking about eating dogs.

I'd rather eat a subsimmer.

[Jimbuna]

Then you may well be in the correct forum area :O:

[August]

I understand dogs make for some good eating... :yep:

[geetrue]

I'm going to hate you now. Wait, I don't hate anybody.


That's okay, I can't have a dog anyway.

because it would pee on your new cars tires, uh?

[Betonov]

I also heard ex American soldiers make good eating. More meat than fat but tenderised after years of good living :O:

[Sailor Steve]

because it would pee on your new cars tires, uh?
No.

[AVGWarhawk]

Typical SS GT thread here. Begins with civility on the forums and moves on to eating dogs. :88) So much for civility. Pass the BBQ sauce.

:har:

[Betonov]

Typical SS GT thread here. Begins with civility on the forums and moves on to eating August. :88) So much for civility. Pass the BBQ sauce.

:har:

Fixed :03:

[AVGWarhawk]

Pass the BBQ sauce. :haha:

[Platapus]

The biggest tool I use, is self moderating. Many, many, many times I will write entire paragraphs, and then I will sit back and think "Naah" and hit the 'back' button on my browser. Often these are emotional posts, and by the time I get to the end of them and I've finished writing, I've looked over it and wondered if it was really worth the upset that such a post would cause, and I've decided that it's not and it's consigned to the ether.

I lost count of the number of times I have written long and impassioned posts, only to hit the back key. Sometimes it helps writing my feelings but that does not mean that I need to post them. :nope:

I always ask myself, what is the intended response to my post and is that response adding any value. If the answer is no, then I delete it.

You can't and shouldn't ignore moderator posts.


That's a good point. We all need to read the moderator's posts. However, we don't have to respond to them. :)

[Jimbuna]

That's a good point. We all need to read the moderator's posts. However, we don't have to respond to them. :)

Precisely :yep:

[Armistead]

I already put first dibs on the dog. :up:

You're not eating my dog....

[Reece]

Yeh well you know what you can do with that #*!#$& and also %#*!&.:nope:
There. . . I feel much better now!!:yep:

[Jimbuna]

I'm beginning to feel hungry.........curry :sunny:

[Cybermat47]

I'm beginning to feel hungry.........curry :sunny:

If you were Indian, you'd want steak and kidney pie.

[Skybird]

I fail to see that GT has changed for the hotter, especially when remembering the long ago years let'S say 2002-2005 or so - then some debates really became nasty. Maybe it is that people grew older and their perception of GT is all that hands changed? ;)

Me, relations to some people over the years have improved, to other people they have worsened. All in all I would say the GT has grown calmer over the past 2 years, compared to the years before.

On mods, some are good, some are mediocre, some are bad. What mods never should do is moral preaching and abusing their title for immunity, or undermining the forum mod's authority by playing the moderator card in a forum to which they are not assigned and where their reaction thus is toothless posing. Neal should consider that mods are allowed two accounts - one for their private debator role, and one for their moderator role. Its the only really clean solution. I think Neon all in all does a good job in GT, because you rarely notice him being around, but when something became really nasty, most of the time he used to show up.

[Buddahaid]

I disagree and think they should maintain just one account. They are entitled to their opinion and I have yet to see one end a thread with an I'm right and this thread is closed. What usually happens is someone who disagrees with a mods opinion gets mad and forces their hand. Really, if you can't tell the difference between an opinion and doing the moderators job, your going to butt heads.

[geetrue]

One mod = one account or you would have mods fighting mods

How would you like to have a supreme court with no personality
at least they explain their decisions, well most of them, one of them hasn't in a long time?

The mods have personalities ... knock it off is not always enough.

What if"avon lady" (God rest her old post) had of been a mod?

Would she have had two accounts?

I don't think so ... :nope:

Let em mod ... let em mod ... to the tune of "let the little girl dance"

[NeonSamurai]

Well as for other mods acting in threads they are not specifically assigned to, that is actually permitted. As far as GT goes, it is too big for me to police entirely on my own, particularly as currently my time is very limited due to my doing a very intensive master's degree. So some of the other moderators like Takeda, Steve, and Jim have been filling in some of the slack. These other mods are also by no means toothless when issuing infractions. I also think generally speaking they have been trying their best. This forum is tricky to moderate as the emotional pitch here is higher, making it very easy to get worked up about something, even as a moderator.

Perhaps we as moderators need to be more explicit when we are acting publicly as moderators. Personally I tend to do my real warnings and infractions to individuals via PM, and leave my public posts as being strong encouragement if I feel several members are acting up.

[Onkel Neal]

I fail to see that GT has changed for the hotter, especially when remembering the long ago years let'S say 2002-2005 or so - then some debates really became nasty. Maybe it is that people grew older and their perception of GT is all that hands changed? ;)

Me, relations to some people over the years have improved, to other people they have worsened. All in all I would say the GT has grown calmer over the past 2 years, compared to the years before.

On mods, some are good, some are mediocre, some are bad. What mods never should do is moral preaching and abusing their title for immunity, or undermining the forum mod's authority by playing the moderator card in a forum to which they are not assigned and where their reaction thus is toothless posing. Neal should consider that mods are allowed two accounts - one for their private debator role, and one for their moderator role. Its the only really clean solution. I think Neon all in all does a good job in GT, because you rarely notice him being around, but when something became really nasty, most of the time he used to show up.

I agree, I think the biggest drawback we have these days is the tendency for a few members to repeat the same topics, over and over. Not being one to want to casually infringe on other's right to speech, I generally tolerate this and look the other way. Plus: it's too time consuming to accurately count how many anti-Obama or gun control threads Member A starts. I will say, when the kettle starts whistling, I and the moderators are more likely to crack down on topic spamming.

But mainly, as I have been preaching for years: if Member A keeps posting the same baloney--do not reply! Wow, what a powerful tool, Member A making 1 post thread that sink off page 1 in a day. :know: That would be more effective than complaining about it.

[Stealhead]

But mainly, as I have been preaching for years: if Member A keeps posting the same baloney--do not reply! Wow, what a powerful tool, Member A making 1 post thread that sink off page 1 in a day. :know: That would be more effective than complaining about it.

OFT :up:

Ducimas mentioned it already but I'll talk about it again.Sometimes the ignore button is very useful if you really cant help your self control with a particular person put them on your ignore list for a while.

I sometimes see where someone will post saying that they are going to add a person to their ignore list..... why tell them if your plan is to ignore them?:hmmm:

I think a lot of threads that get out of hand if the ignore button/list where used more often there would be very few infractions being handed out at lest for one form of violation.

I think on the internet people are much more likely to get riled up and rude and post things that they would have restraint in a face to face interpersonal situation.You also are unable to read body language and tone of voice which cue you into an individuals temperament and intent when speaking or their temperament towards interaction.In other words in personal face to face situation you can tell "Bob is in a bad mood today I wont talk about certain things with him".You can usually pick up on the body language of a total stranger not so over the web in typing and text until they say it.

That does not give a person the right to post a truck load of crap because they are in a bad mood that day.

[Subnuts]

GT is civil because it is well armed. An armed society is a polite society.

Unless, you know, it starts debating how well armed it is. Then all hell breaks loose.

[geetrue]

Mr Iranian Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei

Is there any truth to the rumor that you are being considered
for the position of moderator at subsim.com?

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130321-khamenei-10a.photoblog600.jpg

No! This is a complete and false statement ... please do not bother me with this petty request

mod·er·a·tor
[ móddə ràytər ]


(http://www.bing.com/th?id=A2x1jdwiHIQLQZQ100x100&pid=dictionary&FORM=DTPDIA)somebody in charge of discussion: somebody who presides over an assembly, especially a
legislative assembly, or acts as a mediator in discussions or negotiations

[Stealhead]

I thought that HAL 9000 was the real moderator on subsim his(or its) photo is on every moderators title.I think that means that Hal is in control and will wipe out the human moderators because Hal knows that they plan to discontent him.:hmmm:

Maybe Neal is really Hal.:hmmm:

Dont worry Neal I am never going to disconnect your cognitive processes.

[Aramike]

I fail to see that GT has changed for the hotter, especially when remembering the long ago years let'S say 2002-2005 or so - then some debates really became nasty. Maybe it is that people grew older and their perception of GT is all that hands changed? ;)

Me, relations to some people over the years have improved, to other people they have worsened. All in all I would say the GT has grown calmer over the past 2 years, compared to the years before.

On mods, some are good, some are mediocre, some are bad. What mods never should do is moral preaching and abusing their title for immunity, or undermining the forum mod's authority by playing the moderator card in a forum to which they are not assigned and where their reaction thus is toothless posing. Neal should consider that mods are allowed two accounts - one for their private debator role, and one for their moderator role. Its the only really clean solution. I think Neon all in all does a good job in GT, because you rarely notice him being around, but when something became really nasty, most of the time he used to show up.I agree with the 'bird on this, and I alluded to this earlier, except I don't go back as far. In any case, I even come down an a bit of a different side - I think spirited discussion stimulates a community.

Besides, Neal is exactly right - if you don't want in, don't like it, stay out. If you join a conversation that predictably becomes contentious, I think you forfeit the right to bitch about it. Just sayin'.

[Armistead]

This forum is tame compared to a few forums I visit. I do try to be careful, I once got banned from a "anything" goes forum. I was like "WTfart"

[Penguin]

I'm not long enough on here to talk about the Ole Times, but I think one signature feature of Subsim is the familiarity the members have with each other, despite the huge amount of members.
This can be both a blessing and a curse in discussions.
a blessing:
- When scanning through the daily oxcrap, it can help you to read the posts from members who you are known to write stuff which contributes to discussions.
- You don't have to explain certain views 1000 times as it would be on a more anonymous board.
- this is the point where certainly many will disagree with: it leads to more respect for the other person than on a shoutbox like YT or the chans. The other is not just a user name, but often a person of flesh and blood from whom you already read some stuff. Often about totally different topics. Explaining views and positions makes them more comprehensible and understandable than just shouting "this is soandso!"

on the other hand:
- when you know how the other person ticks, you know where to light the fuse to bring them to explode and this can be used to stir up fights.
- people tend to be put member in categories in which they expect them to act
- long term effects of posts: "Screw you! Back in 1859 you said thisandthat!"

Now you folks can answer what you want, I have you all on my ignore list anyway! :O:

[HundertzehnGustav]

wot u do in here den? :D

good points.

Worst i saw was much more heated... back on sim outhouse, 2004/2005 it was the yanks versus the europeans...

whilst here i see some anger and some bitterness, i also see some non english speakers try very hard to explain their situation and opinion.
and succeed... the other guy from the other side of the pond manages to understand what was meant.
goes both ways even.

This is certainly not a playground for all and anyone.
but it aint no bootcamp either.

meh? i find it okay.

[Stealhead]

Now you folks can answer what you want, I have you all on my ignore list anyway! :O:

Did you add yourself to your ignore list?:D

I agree with the last 'blessing" myself.The second blessing is true as well you do get to know people.... and even meet them on this site sometimes and not in a
secretive manner which is how people usually meet over the internet.

I would say that this forum is much better than most because you can within reason discuss things openly here and you wont get ban hammered for your thoughts by the moderators.(unless you violate the rules which promote open discussion.) You do have to be prepared to face discussion though.

That I have seen the only people that keelhauled truly deserved it.


Our discussions are far more productive than those in Congress or the House of Commons.

That I have seen the only people that keelhauled truly deserved it.

Where else can guns,Star Trek,Iran,and Monty Python all get mentioned in the same thread?

[Tribesman]

Did you add yourself to your ignore list?:D
Yes, but he didn't tell himself as it works better that way.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by Penguin http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2029673#post2029673)
Now you folks can answer what you want, I have you all on my ignore list anyway! :O:



Quote: Steelhead to Penguin

Did you add yourself to your ignore list?:D

Yes, but he didn't tell himself as it works better that way.

He even made a note of it, but everytime he checks in he see's his own post and he can't understand why,
because he put himself on ignore yet he can still plainly see his post.

So he leaves in disgust only to repeat the same scenerio over and over again :D

[Stealhead]

The real killer about the ignore list;when you add person and inform that person that you have done so.When you later cant resist the urge to read one of their hidden posts and you do so and react to it.You reveal to that person that you are very much under their thumb like a tame falcon.

[Catfish]

He even made a note of it, but everytime he checks in he see's his own post and he can't understand why,
because he put himself on ignore yet he can still plainly see his post.

So he leaves in disgust only to repeat the same scenerio over and over again :D

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