Gun Police Arrvive

[Armistead]

Glad this man knew his rights. For those that don't want to read the entire article, a man post a picture of his son with his new 22 cal hunting rifle in military style on FB. Later child welfare, 4 police officers came to his house. The gun was legal, they had no warrant.

Shawn Moore said he gave his son Josh the gun as a present to use on hunting trips. The elder Moore was at a friend's house when his wife called, saying state child welfare investigators, along with four local police officers, were at the house, asking to inspect the family's guns.
Moore said he called his lawyer Evan Nappen, who specializes in Second Amendment cases, and had him on speakerphone as he arrived at his house in Carneys Point, just across the Delaware River from Wilmington, Del.
"They said they wanted to see into my safe and see if my guns were registered," Moore said. "I said no; in New Jersey, your guns don't have to be registered with the state; it's voluntary. I knew once I opened that safe, there was no going back."
With the lawyer listening in on the phone, Moore said he asked the investigators and police officers whether they had a warrant to search his home. When they said no, he asked them to leave. One of the child welfare officials would not identify herself when Moore asked for her name, he said.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/sean-moore-facebook-gun-photo_n_2910779.html?1363735536&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-sb-bb%7Cdl14%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D286156

[Ducimus]

Yeah this story is making the rounds.

I think it goes to show three things:
1.) Why Facebook is a really bad idea.
2.) Just how large the cultural divide has become between red and blue.
3.) Just how out of control or heavy handed government is becoming.

When i was a kid, in California of all places, something like this would never happen.

[Buddahaid]

Already Yubbafied.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203129

[Armistead]

These "hotlines" where anyone can call in and report are a tough call. They're terribly abused by people that want to get back at someone. I'm not sure they're constitutional in many cases. If someone makes a false call, no way to punish them for it. I'm not sure what the answer is, except each case is handled by the caseworker and it's their call. If the call was only a man posted a picture of his son on FB with a legal gun, the caseworker was wrong and should be fired.

Yea, FB has caused more trouble than it's worth for many. The story under that one, a man got arrested for posting a picture of his kids riding a Manatee while in Florida.

[Armistead]

Already Yubbafied.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=203129

Yea, I scanned titles to see if anyone posted it, but saw no title.

A mod can feel free to delete yours....:haha:....or this one...

[GoldenRivet]

ive been shooting ever since my m1 carbine and i were virtually the same length laying down.

its just a way of life - hunting - fishing - camping - grilling - eating meat - having "maritals" with a woman etc.

and it doesnt mesh with the domesticated, metro sexual, mani-pedi lifestyle of the leftists men in the United States and they dont get it and they want a lot of it to go away. it really is that simple.

i dont even know how many pictures exist of me at various ages from 5 to 33 holding a firearm of some sort or another, be it the pic of me firing a beretta 9mm at the age of 6 all the way up to me holding my brand new m-400 just 2 months ago.

facebook is facebook... share what you dont mind being seen by others.

i wont say this guy was wrong to post a photo of his son holding a rifle that rightly belonged to him

he potentially made one of these two facebook mistakes

1. making his info and photos visible with people who are not on his friends list

or

2. having the sort of "friend" on facebook that wouldnt understand the picture and would call the cops and CPS for no good reason

[gimpy117]

The police probably were required to come check on them. Like said above, somebody (maybe with an axe to grind) must have reported "a child in danger" so I would bet the police had to come out and see, and im sure part of that was to verify if the guns were safely stored etc.

[GoldenRivet]

The police probably were required to come check on them. Like said above, somebody (maybe with an axe to grind) must have reported "a child in danger" so I would bet the police had to come out and see, and im sure part of that was to verify if the guns were safely stored etc.

yes, they usually have to follow up on this sort of thing

but it should have been a simple matter of "the boy is alive and well, see he is right here, no you cannot come in, thanks for stopping by have a nice day"

it literally should have taken 10 seconds to address this situation.

but admittedly we have a sweeping problem in this country that someone sees a child with an official Red Ryder, carbine action, 200 shot range model air rifle and they drop bricks and call the fuzz. :nope:

[gimpy117]

will add though, I'm not all that fond of the M-16 style .22 for the kid. Get him a ruger 10/22 with a scope...not some military fantasy gun

[Takeda Shingen]

its just a way of life - hunting - fishing - camping - grilling - eating meat - having "maritals" with a woman etc.

and it doesnt mesh with the domesticated, metro sexual, mani-pedi lifestyle of the leftists men in the United States and they dont get it and they want a lot of it to go away. it really is that simple.

I don't own a gun. I have never fired a gun. I do not hunt. I am a vegitarian.

I have plenty of sex with my wife. I have never had a "man-pedi". Should I reply with my own set of stereotypes directed at you?

[MH]

Don't know if buying a rifle for twelve year kid who might not developed emotionally yet is good idea.
Kids might be unpredictably stupid about guns and lots other things also some responsible owners don't seem so responsible as some past events have shown.
Combine those two and you may have disaster.

The situation with police and rights violation is another story.

[HunterICX]

I have plenty of sex with my wife.

Before or after you got her a Xbox360?

HunterICX

[Armistead]

will add though, I'm not all that fond of the M-16 style .22 for the kid. Get him a ruger 10/22 with a scope...not some military fantasy gun

I have to agree.

[Takeda Shingen]

Before or after you got her a Xbox360?

HunterICX

You would be surprised how frisky she gets after clobbering some scrub online. :haha:

[mookiemookie]

its just a way of life - hunting - fishing - camping - grilling - eating meat - having "maritals" with a woman etc. I enjoy all of those activities, except I don't hunt. I would consider my views slanted to the left. Guess your comment kind of falls apart there, doesn't it.

and it doesnt mesh with the domesticated, metro sexual, mani-pedi lifestyle of the leftists men in the United States and they dont get it and they want a lot of it to go away. it really is that simple.

So right wingers = real men and left wingers = homos.

Ladies and gentlemen, GT has indeed reached that point.

[Takeda Shingen]

So right wingers = real men and left wingers = homos.

Ladies and gentlemen, GT has indeed reached that point.

Pretty much.

[GoldenRivet]

Don't know if buying a rifle for twelve year kid who might not developed emotionally yet is good idea.

this kid looks pretty emotionally developed, and he has clearly earned the right to have his firearm as his father sees fit. this is a kid that knows his parents love him and respect him - those are the best kids.

Kids might be unpredictably stupid about guns

not if you dont give them the opportunity.

for starters you dont give a kid a firearm unless you - as the parent - think he can handle the responsibility of supervised range time or hunting etc.

secondly, even if he has earned that privilege you dont just leave the thing locked and loaded under his pillow at night

EDIT:

i didnt call anyone a homo, never used that term and certainly didnt mean to imply it... just there is a rift between the left lifestyle and the right lifestyle and never the twain shall meet. Just seems like a lot lately if you live right of the middle the left wants to vilify you

[Armistead]

I enjoy all of those activities, except I don't hunt. I would consider my views slanted to the left. Guess your comment kind of falls apart there, doesn't it.



So right wingers = real men and left wingers = homos.

Ladies and gentlemen, GT has indeed reached that point.

That's why they made Brokeback Mountain, take the American icon, the cowboy, his rifle and rope, add a lil goat hearding and mix the two stereotypes into one.

[MH]

Pretty much.
The big guns seem to compensate for lack of some other things sometimes.:haha:

[Hottentot]

homos.

Ooo, good one! I forgot that from the Bingo! Just a moment...

[scribble, scribble, scribble]

[GoldenRivet]

The big guns seem to compensate for lack of some other things sometimes.:haha:

your left gomer...


we are talking about rifles not guns LMAO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U

[GoldenRivet]

in summary

THIS is not the problem these days

http://firearmstrainingltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/photo-boy-with-rifle-basic-rifle.jpg

THIS is

http://picklebums.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/muski-dolldoll1.jpg

we are raising a generation of sissies

just my opinion - and opinions are like anuses - everyone has one, whether or not you stick your nose in it is your business

[MH]

for starters you dont give a kid a firearm unless you - as the parent - think he can handle the responsibility of supervised range time or hunting etc.Cool but i don't believe in responsible ownership in a system that allows anyone get a gun/rifle in a day and the next day buy another one as a gift for a kid.

From my perspective the issue is weather this kind of freedom should be allowed with all the damage that comes with it.
For most part the discussion is about weather the damage exist at all.:hmmm:



we are talking about rifles not guns LMAOLOL yeah.

[August]

Cool but i don't believe in responible ownership in a system that allows anyone get a gun/rifle in a day and the next day buy another one as a gift for a kid.

Why is that irresponsible?

[GoldenRivet]

Cool but i don't believe in responible ownership in a system that allows anyone get a gun/rifle in a day and the next day buy another one as a gift for a kid.

From my perspective the issue is weather this kind of freedom should be allowed with all the damage that comes with it.
For most part the discussion is about weather the damage exist at all.:hmmm:

i disagree, its my opinion that if you cannot buy a rifle in less than 15 minutes there is a problem.

if you walk into a sporting goods store with cash in hand and a clean record, the background check should take less than 10 minutes. period.

you could argue that background checks work or dont work, but thats a problem for the criminal justice system. these pansy judges let too many guys off with probation or drop the charges in favor of a lesser punishment or community service - whatever - how much of that if any shows up on a background check? none of it... so whos fault is that?

who is to blame?

responsible gun owners usually end up taking the heat

I have had my background checked about a hundred times... but then again i've kept my shorts clean where the law is concerned.

[Takeda Shingen]

just my opinion - and opinions are like anuses - everyone has one, whether or not you stick your nose in it is your business

Unless they're shoving their anus in your face and waving it back and forth. :roll:

[Buddahaid]

Perhaps we should also disallow teens from driving as the death rate is also very high. Not as high as gun related deaths but substantial.

http://www.cdc.gov/MotorVehicleSafety/Teen_Drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

[August]

Unless they're shoving their anus in your face and waving it back and forth. :roll:

You mean like you consistently try to do with your personal insults?

[GoldenRivet]

Unless they're shoving their anus in your face and waving it back and forth. :roll:

which can be fun with the right person

[Takeda Shingen]

You mean like you consistently try to do with your personal insults?

See, this is what I am talking about with your behavior.

[Penguin]

So right wingers = real men and left wingers = homos.

Ladies and gentlemen, GT has indeed reached that point.

I wonder what those (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols)folks think about this.:hmmm:

[August]

See, this is what I am talking about with your behavior.

Aww, feeling a little put upon Spanky?

[Armistead]

You mean like you consistently try to do with your personal insults?

Geesh August, it was a reply to the other anus comment, don't make it to be something it wasn't. It certainly wasn't personal, just a general anus comment.

Geesh, does every thread have to go the anal route here?

[August]

Geesh August, it was a reply to the other anus comment, don't make it to be something it wasn't. It certainly wasn't personal, just a general anus comment.

Geesh, does every thread have to go the anal route here?

Yeah maybe it was over the top. I apologize to you. I'm just sick of his sanctimonious crap.

[MH]

Why is that irresponsible?
Because generally speaking being grown up not necessary grants one wisdom or foresight.
I agree that this is a issue difficult to deal with without punishing really responsible people as well
Also im aware there is thin line between freedom and idiot proof state but opinion may vary where the line should actually be.

[Takeda Shingen]

Aww, feeling a little put upon Spanky?

Actually, I'm just trying to walk away without infracting you, but you are doing your best to chase me down the street to ensure that this happens. Just step away from the computer, go do something else. You'll feel better.

[Tribesman]

I wonder what those (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols)folks think about this.:hmmm:
Poofs with guns!!!!
There goes that silly emotional arguement about sissies then:rotfl2:

[August]

Because generally speaking being grown up not necessary grants one wisdom or foresight.
I agree that this is a issue that is difficult to deal with without punishing really responsible people as well
Also im aware there is thin line between freedom and idiot proof state but opinion may vary where should actually run.

That's all well and good MH but it doesn't answer the question. Why would buying a gun on tuesday then buying another gun on wednesday for one's own son be irresponsible?

[August]

Actually, I'm just trying to walk away without infracting you, but you are doing your best to chase me down the street to ensure that this happens. Just step away from the computer, go do something else. You'll feel better.

Do what you think is right Pal. I've already reported you to Neal. We'll see what his take is on it.

[Tribesman]

Why would buying a gun on tuesday then buying another gun on wednesday for one's own son be irresponsible?
Because if you buy them both together you may get a good price deal.

[Hottentot]

I wonder what those (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols)folks think about this.:hmmm:

This reminds me. There was at some point, either here or abroad, a group which was having a campaign for painting guns pink. Their point was that if you like guns just because shooting is your harmless hobby, then there is no reason for why you couldn't do it with a bright pink gun.

[MH]

That's all well and good MH but it doesn't answer the question. Why would buying a gun on tuesday then buying another gun on wednesday for one's own son be irresponsible? Ok... i meant that the whole processes is too easy.
Easer than getting driver licence , it is meaningless.

[August]

This reminds me. There was at some point, either here or abroad, a group which was having a campaign for painting guns pink. Their point was that if you like guns just because shooting is your harmless hobby, then there is no reason for why you couldn't do it with a bright pink gun.

Sounds cool to me as long as it is coupled with a law banning future bans. I can always paint it camo easily enough...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TrbAjVqGwkA/Tp0dStX2aRI/AAAAAAAAAdw/emI6mZrj3Yo/s1600/hello-kitty-ar-15-rifle-gun.jpg

[Ducimus]

I have to agree.

Ditto. At that age, i'd say a good BB gun is more then enough. Introduce early and teach them well to be responsible by all means. But, step them into it. Start small wtih a BB gun, then work your way up to a .22 rifle, or .410 shotgun when their older.

[Takeda Shingen]

Ditto. At that age, i'd say a good BB gun is more then enough. Introduce early and teach them well to be responsible by all means. But, step them into it. Start small wtih a BB gun, then work your way up to a .22 rifle, or .410 shotgun when their older.

Well, if we are counting BB guns, then I can say that I have owned and shot one. However, I was horrible at it, and had very little interest in practicing with it. I was always more interested in that piano in the living room, which in hindsight makes a lot of sense I suppose.

[August]

Ditto. At that age, i'd say a good BB gun is more then enough. Introduce early and teach them well to be responsible by all means. But, step them into it. Start small wtih a BB gun, then work your way up to a .22 rifle, or .410 shotgun when their older.

That's some great advice. BB guns and .22's won't have too much recoil for a youngster to handle and they are cheap to shoot which lends itself to practicing.

[Hottentot]

Well, if we are counting BB guns, then I can say that I have owned and shot one. However, I was horrible at it, and had very little interest in practicing with it. I was always more interested in that piano in the living room, which in hindsight makes a lot of sense I suppose.

According to this thread's logic, shouldn't this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassoon) be more appropriate for you then? :03:

[Buddahaid]

Beware, your BB gun is not welcome in SF.
http://www.lee.org/blog/2009/11/04/air-gun-laws-in-san-francisco-california/

[Takeda Shingen]

According to this thread's logic, shouldn't this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassoon) be more appropriate for you then? :03:

I see what you did there. :haha:

[Ducimus]

Well, if we are counting BB guns, then I can say that I have owned and shot one. However, I was horrible at it, and had very little interest in practicing with it. I was always more interested in that piano in the living room, which in hindsight makes a lot of sense I suppose.

Personally I think a BB gun is the best place to start where guns are concerned. Particularly when your a parent trying to teach your child about firearms in general.

It allows you, to see just how serious they'll take it. You can teach them the 4 basic rules, and the basics of marksmanship, with an object that is relatively harmless to humans. If they take it seriously, show maturity, responsiblity, and never do anything stupid, with time, they graduate from elementary to junior high as it were. At least that's how it worked in my family.

One of my favorite past times as a kid was plinking empty soda cans.

[Takeda Shingen]

Personally I think a BB gun is the best place to start where guns are concerned. Particularly when your a parent trying to teach your child about firearms in general.

It allows you, to see just how serious they'll take it. You can teach them the 4 basic rules, and the basics of marksmanship, with an object that is relatively harmless to humans. If they take it seriously, show maturity, responsiblity, and never do anything stupid, with time, they graduate from elementary to junior high as it were. At least that's how it worked in my family.

One of my favorite past times as a kid was plinking empty soda cans.

It is like any tactile skill like handwriting or playing any instrument. You have to practice it to get better. We would paint various targets on the bottom of cardboard boxes and shoot at those. My brother got to be very good at it, and hunts to this day. I always liked making the targets more than I liked shooting the gun. :haha:

[Yamato_NF]

This is what happens when Big Government tries to look good.... :nope:

I agree with the Dad, put your lawyer on speaker, let him listen to the conversation, and ask if they have a warrant. tell them to scram.

its a shame that these kind of things are becoming common place.
As a gun-owner as well, alot of people are taking this Gun Ownership issue too far... :nope:

but at the same time,
the father should not have posted those photos on FB.
(this is why i do not do social networks. :hmph: )

as said by one philosipher:
"Bereaucracy is the purest form of inefficiency..."
as is true with big government. :know:

Yamato_NF

[Ducimus]

That's some great advice. BB guns and .22's won't have too much recoil for a youngster to handle and they are cheap to shoot which lends itself to practicing.

That too. Which i forgot to mention. BB's are Cheeeaaap. Buy em by the 100's in small cartons.

EDIT:

back on topic i guess,
Family Says New Jersey Overreacted to Boy's Gun Photo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHMIJT02IuI) (NRA video, just FYI )

While I do think the government over reacted, and was way out of bounds; I wouldn't give any kid of mine at that age, a .22 rifle based on the AR-15 platform. But i think that's more of a parental thing.

[Wolferz]

Government always tends to stick it's nose where it doesn't belong.

As for the picture posted to Facebook... That was a mistake made by the father. Big brother couldn't have asked for a better snooping program than FB. I don't use it myself and there are many people out there that rue their own use of it. There is nothing wrong with giving a child a weapon as long as that child is instructed in the use of it and the consequences for the misuse of it. My wife has a small .22 caliber saddle rifle that was given to her at the age of 6 by her grandfather. He instructed her on the proper usage. I'd bet she can out shoot about anyone.

As stated in the article, the gestapo tactics used by the authorities in checking out the complaint is the very reason for gun ownership. I would have told the fuzz the same thing. No warrant? Get lost! I don't consent to warrantless searches of my home, my person or my vehicle for any reason. There are kids out there that should NEVER be given free access to a firearm but, that's a decision to be made by the parents, not the government.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Sheeple will be the end of us all if they roll over and let government do as it pleases.

[GoldenRivet]

Government always tends to stick it's nose where it doesn't belong.

As for the picture posted to Facebook... That was a mistake made by the father. Big brother couldn't have asked for a better snooping program than FB. I don't use it myself and there are many people out there that rue their own use of it. There is nothing wrong with giving a child a weapon as long as that child is instructed in the use of it and the consequences for the misuse of it. My wife has a small .22 caliber saddle rifle that was given to her at the age of 6 by her grandfather. He instructed her on the proper usage. I'd bet she can out shoot about anyone.

As stated in the article, the gestapo tactics used by the authorities in checking out the complaint is the very reason for gun ownership. I would have told the fuzz the same thing. No warrant? Get lost! I don't consent to warrantless searches of my home, my person or my vehicle for any reason. There are kids out there that should NEVER be given free access to a firearm but, that's a decision to be made by the parents, not the government.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Sheeple will be the end of us all if they roll over and let government do as it pleases.

a more appropriate and succinct way of making the point i had attempted to make early in this thread

well done

shooting and "gun ownership" is not for everyone, but for those of us who enjoy the hobby... we shouldnt be considered evil and the govt shouldnt try to take our guns away because of the decisions some people make.

a licensed driver is just as deadly as a "gun owner"... the difference being that most owners of firearms dont run throughout the city with their firearms pointed out in front of them in hopes that nobody gets hurt

i'm equally as charged up about the right to bear arms as i am the right to choose not to... but for those of us that choose to... let us be

[gimpy117]

Perhaps we should also disallow teens from driving as the death rate is also very high. Not as high as gun related deaths but substantial.

http://www.cdc.gov/MotorVehicleSafety/Teen_Drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

Actually drivers ed courses are much more involved than before, motorcycle permits are no longer just a written test

[yubba]

Looks like I got Hi jacked, but this is more a governmental decussion, and mine can go the way of pics and images that get kids in trouble with the liberal mambi pambi people that we entrust to look over them. Carry On :salute:

[Cybermat47]

Unless they're shoving their anus in your face and waving it back and forth. :roll:

:eek:

:haha:

[NeonSamurai]

As someone who deals quite a bit with CPS (child protective services), I am not too surprised by the response. I average about 3-4 CPS reports per month as a mandated reporter, generally child abuse or neglect.

I will say that dealing with CPS is a pain, I swear they are worse than the CIA when it comes to secrecy, but there is also a really good reason for this. CPS is trying to protect many different people, each with different interests.

First off they are trying to protect the person reporting. That person could well be at risk if there identity is known. Also they need to encourage people to come forward, as people reporting can often be closely associated with the accused perpetrator (like family). Revealing the exact accusations could also identify the person reporting. Can the system be abused? Absolutely, but I don't see any other alternative. False reports don't tend to go very far (it can be hard enough getting CPS to act, even when you are a mandated reporter and have fairly solid grounds).

Second they are trying to protect themselves. CPS workers are at risk when on the job. People don't like them, and violence is not unheard of. It is not overly unusual for them not to reveal their names, due to concern over reprisals (Heck even I generally do not give my last name, and I am in a hospital setting). They can even be reluctant to give the location of the CPS office itself. If there are firearms at the home or the accusation is serious, they will show up with police. They also don't need warrants to show up and ask questions, though one doesn't have to answer them (but it is usually advisable to answer them, otherwise you are almost guaranteeing they will follow up).

Third they are trying to protect the accused. CPS workers know that many allegations are false, and if they are, they do not want to cause any problems for the individual that was accused. This is yet another reason for the secrecy. Accusations can ruin a person if they become public (particularly if this person works with children), as people will never be sure or trust this person again, no matter how conclusive the evidence is that nothing happened.

Last and most important, they are trying to protect the child or children themselves. Something that is very difficult to do.


As for this case. Who knows what the actual content of the investigation was. I suspect it is not over though. Non-cooperation can trigger a more extensive and in-depth investigation if the social worker feels there is cause. At this point they may be pursuing court orders.

Also I gotta say, if I was the social worker investigating this case, I would have brought police too if I was investigating an abuse/neglect case that involved a child wearing urban camo and sporting what looks like an assault rifle to the untrained eye.

[Ducimus]

As for this case. Who knows what the actual content of the investigation was. I suspect it is not over though. Non-cooperation can trigger a more extensive and in-depth investigation if the social worker feels there is cause. At this point they may be pursuing court orders.


Non cooperation? There is still a little thing called The Fourth Amendment. You see, this is why gun control is a much larger issue, and it isn't just about guns. Yesterday the Patriot act and NDAA, today the 2nd amendment, tomorrow the 4th amendment. What's next? This has to stop before we have our homegrown version of the Stasi running about.

Ever since 911 the land of liberty has become less so over time. Osama bin ladin may be dead, but he set in motion an effect that has lasted longer then any of his intended goals, and has had greater reprocussions for "the great satan" then he could have ever possibly dreamed.

[Armistead]

As someone who deals quite a bit with CPS (child protective services), I am not too surprised by the response. I average about 3-4 CPS reports per month as a mandated reporter, generally child abuse or neglect.

I will say that dealing with CPS is a pain, I swear they are worse than the CIA when it comes to secrecy, but there is also a really good reason for this. CPS is trying to protect many different people, each with different interests.

First off they are trying to protect the person reporting. That person could well be at risk if there identity is known. Also they need to encourage people to come forward, as people reporting can often be closely associated with the accused perpetrator (like family). Revealing the exact accusations could also identify the person reporting. Can the system be abused? Absolutely, but I don't see any other alternative. False reports don't tend to go very far (it can be hard enough getting CPS to act, even when you are a mandated reporter and have fairly solid grounds).

Second they are trying to protect themselves. CPS workers are at risk when on the job. People don't like them, and violence is not unheard of. It is not overly unusual for them not to reveal their names, due to concern over reprisals (Heck even I generally do not give my last name, and I am in a hospital setting). They can even be reluctant to give the location of the CPS office itself. If there are firearms at the home or the accusation is serious, they will show up with police. They also don't need warrants to show up and ask questions, though one doesn't have to answer them (but it is usually advisable to answer them, otherwise you are almost guaranteeing they will follow up).

Third they are trying to protect the accused. CPS workers know that many allegations are false, and if they are, they do not want to cause any problems for the individual that was accused. This is yet another reason for the secrecy. Accusations can ruin a person if they become public (particularly if this person works with children), as people will never be sure or trust this person again, no matter how conclusive the evidence is that nothing happened.

Last and most important, they are trying to protect the child or children themselves. Something that is very difficult to do.


As for this case. Who knows what the actual content of the investigation was. I suspect it is not over though. Non-cooperation can trigger a more extensive and in-depth investigation if the social worker feels there is cause. At this point they may be pursuing court orders.

Also I gotta say, if I was the social worker investigating this case, I would have brought police too if I was investigating an abuse/neglect case that involved a child wearing urban camo and sporting what looks like an assault rifle to the untrained eye.

What you're forgetting is the Sixth Amendment, the right to face your accuser, this is where hotlines become an issue. The way it should be is law enforcement suspects a crime, they investigate, then if needed other services are called in. The problem is if LE wants to investigate, they have to get warrants, have hard evidence, etc...tough to do. This is how it was once done.

They have found ways to circumvent the 6th amendment, instead of facing your real accuser, CPS becomes the accuser. As in this case, they show up without a warrant and become demanding and threatening. This is a ploy to get you to waive your rights. If you don't cooperate, they threaten LE and that things will be much worse. Here is where people that know they've done nothing wrong should tell them to come back with a warrant. The fact is most judges wont issue a warrant based on a tip.

The sad fact

Child-Abuse Charges Ensnare Some Parents In Baseless Proceedings," in the Wall Street Journal reported that two-thirds of children who removed from their homes as a result of child abuse interventions turned out not to be abused at all.

Further, the majority of these were from hotline tips. Other studies show many of the kids removed end up in worse shape in foster homes, etc..
Like most things the government does, it may sound good, but facts show little good is being done.

These hotline cause more harm to decent families than they solve. Many families go broke fighting to get their kids back, but when they're found innocent, they don't get paid back. After that, they're often looked at with suspect by neighbors, teachrs, family and friends.

The fact is the majority of hotline calls are false. It's usually found a parent just doesn't like another parents methods, but it's not abuse. People that accuse should have to come forward so people accused can face their accuser.