Gun Control thread (merged many)

[Commander Wallace]

I wonder, why do people always bring a completely different problem into the debate?
This is the gun control thread. Not the alcohol abuse thread.
While I get your point, I don't think it is sensible to go along with it.

Debate the topic, don't create straw-men like that, or "cars" (the usual excuse).
(And no, I am still not anti-gun.)

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..

It comes down to accountability. There will always be those who blame people , companies and organizations for something they had nothing to do with and then try to extract money and payments from them. That's tantamount to legalized extortion.

Great thread. Lots of good insightful posts.

[Oberon]

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..

It comes down to accountability. There will always be those who blame people , companies and organizations for something they had nothing to do with and then try to extract money and payments from them. That's tantamount to legalized extortion.

Great thread. Lots of good insightful posts.

Me and August and others went over the car comparison a few pages ago, the thing to remember about cars though is that there have been increasing efforts over the years to make cars safer and to reduce alcohol related issues, through ad campaigns, taxes and in the cases of cars, design and material choices, as well as legislation.
Alcohol and cars were not designed to kill, a gun on the other hand....

[Nippelspanner]

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..
Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?

That was my point.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"

:-?

[Commander Wallace]

Me and August and others went over the car comparison a few pages ago, the thing to remember about cars though is that there have been increasing efforts over the years to make cars safer and to reduce alcohol related issues, through ad campaigns, taxes and in the cases of cars, design and material choices, as well as legislation.
Alcohol and cars were not designed to kill, a gun on the other hand....

Good point, however, cars may not be designed to kill but they do in large numbers. I missed your earlier post as well.

[Schroeder]

Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?

That was my point.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"

:-?
Thread derailment
That's the same way the migration debate goes, isn't it? ;)
/Thread derailment

[Commander Wallace]

Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?

That was my point.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"

:-?
No one is ignoring either problem. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I.e, accountability. That's something I'm sure most in society and in this forum exercise responsibly in their lives on a daily basis.
The problem is, it seems problems and issues are taxed out of existence in the absence of an effective solution.

[Nippelspanner]

No one is ignoring either problem. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I.e, accountability. That's something I'm sure most in society and in this forum exercise responsibly in their lives on a daily basis.
The problem is, it seems problems and issues are taxed out of existence in the absence of an effective solution.
Explain to me what "self responsibility" has to do with what I complained about?
Someone initiates a debate and coincidentally, those who disagree always bring up other and non-related problems, instead of talking about the actual topic.
Why?
How is this helping anyone, how does that solve problems?

This is just something that I don't understand about people since... forever.
They do it all the time.
"Hey, I think you always put too much salt on the pasta."
"OH YEAH? WELL LAST YEAR YOU PUT TOO MUCH PEPPER ONTO SOMETHING TOO!"
"... :-?"

[kobiwaldi]

...

This is just something that I don't understand about people since... forever.
They do it all the time.
"Hey, I think you always put too much salt on the pasta."
"OH YEAH? WELL LAST YEAR YOU PUT TOO MUCH PEPPER ONTO SOMETHING TOO!"
"... :-?"

sry of ot..
Realy reminds of my wife :hmmm:

[Oberon]

sry of ot..
Realy reminds of my wife :hmmm:

It is amazing how they have some kind of internal hard-drive of everything you've done wrong over the past two decades which can be accessed at a moments notice.
I've never worked out how they do it. :hmmm:

[Nippelspanner]

It is amazing how they have some kind of internal hard-drive of everything you've done wrong over the past two decades which can be accessed at a moments notice (while they forget all the good things one ever did for her like they never happened).
I've never worked out how they do it. :hmmm:
Now, it is complete. :)

[U505995]

One question that comes to my mind is why there are so many people going off the walls crazy these days and going on shooting sprees? It's much more common occurrence than it was 20-30 years ago.

[HunterICX]

No one is ignoring either problem. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I.e, accountability.

Answer me this as I'm not really familiar on this.

If a kid grabs his dad's gun (the licensed gun owner) and the kid goes to his school and starts a shooting and then ends his life. Is his dad going to be held accountable for not having his gun locked away safely from others?

[Sailor Steve]

I don't think Platapus or anyone else was intentionally trying to introduce another problem like alcohol into the debate. I think the point was to draw a comparison between how many people are lost in auto accidents relative to shooting victims and that vehicles are not banned while gun manufacturers are facing legal actions..
Exactly.

Err... so he dragged another topic/possible problem into this, although there is zero connection?
There is a very tangible connection, though it might be easy for you to miss.

"Hey, we have a gun problem!"
"BUT CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!"
"Uhm, OK then, let's ignore both problems then...?"
The connection is that there is a large group of people here who consistently claim that the only solution to the gun problem is to ban all guns. By that logic we should also ban all cars, since cars are also involved in large numbers of deaths, many more than guns. They don't see it that way, and I suspect the real reason is that their cars have some value to them whereas guns don't.

Do you see it now?

[Commander Wallace]

Answer me this as I'm not really familiar on this.

If a kid grabs his dad's gun (the licensed gun owner) and the kid goes to his school and starts a shooting and then ends his life. Is his dad going to be held accountable for not having his gun locked away safely from others?

To answer this, If someone makes the choice to have a weapon in their home for protection or sport or any other number of valid reasons, They have an ethical, moral and of course legal responsibility to make sure the weapons in question are secured. If you have a child or children, then the gun owner may want to reevaluate the merits of having a weapon at home or elect to either get rid of the weapons or take increased actions to make sure they are secured. Again, it's a question of accountability and being a responsible gun owner.

Should the parent be held responsible ? In most jurisdictions, sanctions in the form of the filing of criminal charges will most likely be filed for failing to secure the weapon used. It's simple, if you have weapons which are relatively expensive to own, invest the same amount of money to make sure they are secure.

This is a different matter relative to holding a legally authorized gun manufacturer or seller legally responsible for a death or accident once it has left their respective factory or store and beyond their control.

[Onkel Neal]

This is just something that I don't understand about people since... forever.
They do it all the time.
"Hey, I think you always put too much salt on the pasta."
"OH YEAH? WELL LAST YEAR YOU PUT TOO MUCH PEPPER ONTO SOMETHING TOO!"
"... :-?"

Haha, pretty good analogy. :har:


,
,
One question that comes to my mind is why there are so many people going off the walls crazy these days and going on shooting sprees? It's much more common occurrence than it was 20-30 years ago.


Simple, very simple. It's Radio Wave Madness™. The human brain operates thought through electrical activity and impulses. Over the last 120 years, human generated radio waves and electromagnetic waves have increased immensely since Heinrich Hertz cranked out the first artificial waves. Now we are bombarded 24/7 by invisible walls of television, cellphone, satellite, military, wifi, and radios waves. Excessive radio waves disrupt the brain's activity. We're at the point now where the waves are cooking our minds, and every so often some poor guy's mental activity goes pop like a kernel of corn.

It's there, we just have not discovered it yet.

[Betonov]

Simple, very simple. It's Radio Wave Madness™. The human brain operates thought through electrical activity and impulses. Over the last 120 years, human generated radio waves and electromagnetic waves have increased immensely since Heinrich Hertz cranked out the first artificial waves. Excessive radio waves disrupt the brain's activity. We're at the point now where the wavs are cooking our minds, and every so often some poor guy's mental activity goes pop like a kernel of corn.

I'd blame the combined effects of media, lack of good parenting, chemicals in food/water (pollution, not that conspiracy crap) and stress.
I've been aroung some kind of radio waves and electroamgnetic radiation my entire life and I've gotten more pacifist as the years went by.

[Commander Wallace]

Haha, pretty good analogy. :har:


,
,



Simple, very simple. It's Radio Wave Madness™. The human brain operates thought through electrical activity and impulses. Over the last 120 years, human generated radio waves and electromagnetic waves have increased immensely since Heinrich Hertz cranked out the first artificial waves. Now we are bombarded 24/7 by invisible walls of television, cellphone, satellite, military, wifi, and radios waves. Excessive radio waves disrupt the brain's activity. We're at the point now where the waves are cooking our minds, and every so often some poor guy's mental activity goes pop like a kernel of corn.

It's there, we just have not discovered it yet.

Did you know that if you make and wear a helmet made from a armadillo shell, it blocks waves from the Tv and radio so your mind can't be scanned ? :O:

I saw that on the Dukes of Hazzard movie. :haha:

[Oberon]

legal responsibility to make sure the weapons in question are secured.

Does this not vary state to state? In fact I think that Massachusetts is the only state that requires firearms to be in a locked safe or stored with a trigger lock. More states require that licensed dealers sell locking devices with the weapon, although out of those states most of those are for handguns only, and few of them apply the same law to private dealers, and out of those only a few require the locks to be approved or to meet certain standards.

In the UK, the law is that:

“The firearms and ammunition [or shotguns] to which the certificate relates must at all times (except in the circumstances set out in paragraph (b) below) be stored securely so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or ammunition by an unauthorised person.”

and

“Where a firearm or ammunition [or shotgun] to which the certificate relates is in use or the holder of the certificate has the firearm with him for the purpose of cleaning, repairing or testing it or for some other purpose connected with its use, transfer or sale, or the firearm or ammunition is in transit to or from a place in connection with its use or any such purpose, reasonable precautions must be taken for the safe custody of the firearm or the ammunition.”

http://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearm-shotgun-security-what-do-you-do/

[Commander Wallace]

Does this not vary state to state? In fact I think that Massachusetts is the only state that requires firearms to be in a locked safe or stored with a trigger lock. More states require that licensed dealers sell locking devices with the weapon, although out of those states most of those are for handguns only, and few of them apply the same law to private dealers, and out of those only a few require the locks to be approved or to meet certain standards.

In the UK, the law is that:



and



http://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearm-shotgun-security-what-do-you-do/


I'm not as sure as the legal implications varying from state to state. Maybe someone here can answer that one. Generally speaking, if the weapons were not secured properly, count on law enforcement asking some tough questions. As far as owning weapons, I think there is a fundamental moral question that transcends what is legally required.

[Onkel Neal]

I'd blame the combined effects of media, lack of good parenting, chemicals in food/water (pollution, not that conspiracy crap) and stress.
I've been aroung some kind of radio waves and electroamgnetic radiation my entire life and I've gotten more pacifist as the years went by.


It affects some people differently. Those with a Y chromosome are apt to go aggressively violent.

.
.
.
j/k

Did you know that if you make and wear a helmet made from a armadillo shell, it blocks waves from the Tv and radio so your mind can't be scanned ? :O:

I saw that on the Dukes of Hazzard movie. :haha:

I just use a Collander from Wal-Mart. The tin from China has superior deflecting properties.

http://in5d.com/images/5d-tinfoil-hat-.jpg

[Betonov]

It affects some people differently. Those with a Y chromosome are apt to go aggressively violent.

.
.
.
j/k



Did you just call me a woman :O:
So what if I know how to cook, garden and knit :)

[Onkel Neal]

Lol, you are the coolest dude ever.

https://45.media.tumblr.com/36e5dfc9877eaaca3f9acc9d7f541b9e/tumblr_nitwsnZ7VT1tfxxpto1_400.gif

[Commander Wallace]

Did you just call me a woman :O:
So what if I know how to cook, garden and knit :)

I didn't know women there had mustaches and goatees there like you. :D
Go figure. I'm not sure now if i want to include Slovenia on my list of places I want to see and visit or not now. :O:

[Nippelspanner]

The connection is that there is a large group of people here who consistently claim that the only solution to the gun problem is to ban all guns.
I disagree on that.
Also, I can't think of a single member here who said that, let alone "a large group".

[Dowly]

The connection is that there is a large group of people here who consistently claim that the only solution to the gun problem is to ban all guns.I haven't seen anyone in awhile saying that the solution is banning all guns. :06:

By that logic we should also ban all cars, since cars are also involved in large numbers of deaths, many more than guns.

In 2013, cars killed "only" 168 people more compared to firearms:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Don't know the figures for 2014 and 2015.

[Betonov]

I didn't know women there had mustaches and goatees there like you. :D
Go figure. I'm not sure now if i want to include Slovenia on my list of places I want to see and visit or not now. :O:

You may want to rethink :O:
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/391257_489162924429563_544184533_n.jpg?oh=4f278735 311194b46b768855d1be0675&oe=57644AFB

Get on my bad side and I'll give you her adress :haha:

[Dowly]

Get on my bad side and I'll give you her adress :haha: 1) How do I get on your bad side?
2) Does she like roses, or should I buy a box of ammo?

[Nippelspanner]

1) How do I get on your bad side?
2) Does she like roses, or should I buy a box of ammo?
Well, you two might get along just fine.
She has zero trigger discipline - just like you.

[Dowly]

http://i.imgur.com/i5JzxcZ.gif

[Betonov]

Dowly, I like you despite you ignoring me :O:

This is a woman that has a habit of having two men in her life.
The mate and the slave. Guess who I was for 8 years http://www.i-mockery.com/forum/images/mockery/emoticons/hanged.gif

[Dowly]

Dowly, I like you despite you ignoring me :O: Whaaat? I dont ignore you.. that much... usually...

Did someone say something? :hmmm:

[Betonov]

Whaaat? I dont ignore you.. that much... usually...

Did someone say something? :hmmm:


We do have bolognese in Finland, and it's called bolognese.

As with any food, there are different variations. This in question is one of them.

To quote Sailor_Steve's undying words: I'm right and you're stupid. :hmph:

Goulasch won WW2 in Yugoslavia, so we're quite sensitive about it :O:

FINE! Have your way! :hmph:

But I'm not talking to you again!

:O:
The migrant thread

[Dowly]

Oh crap, forgot that!

:hmph:

[Betonov]

I tried to explain my friends I was being ignored by a Finn over goulasch :rotfl2:

[Oberon]

GUN ALL BANS!

There, I said it! :yep:

[AndyJWest]

Arm bears!

[Dowly]

Arm bears!
:huh:

GUN THE BEARS!

[Sailor Steve]

I disagree on that.
Also, I can't think of a single member here who said that, let alone "a large group".

I haven't seen anyone in awhile saying that the solution is banning all guns. :06:
I'm not sure if it's a language problem or a viewpoint problem.

Then I said "here" I meant the United States, not SubSim. Think of it that way and maybe you'll begin to see the connection.

In 2013, cars killed "only" 168 people more compared to firearms
It doesn't matter if it's twice as many or half as many. If the only solution to the gun death problem is to ban all guns (as so many here in the United States claim), then why don't they also claim that only solution for the car death problem is to ban all cars? Goose and Gander?

Do you see the connection now?

[AVGWarhawk]

I took control and purchased a gun before the control said I could no longer purchase a gun. I replaced the original stock with a tactical adjustable stock and added a tactical light. Then purchased 100 rounds and plan on purchasing more.

Bring on the zombies.

Bacon anyone?

[Dowly]

I'm not sure if it's a language problem or a viewpoint problem.

Then I said "here" I meant the United States, not SubSim. Think of it that way and maybe you'll begin to see the connection.
That was indeed a language related problem, my apologies.


It doesn't matter if it's twice as many or half as many. If the only solution to the gun death problem is to ban all guns (as so many here in the United States claim), then why don't they also claim that only solution for the car death problem is to ban all cars? Goose and Gander?

Do you see the connection now?I can see the connection, as you put it and I paraphrase, from the American POV.

[Commander Wallace]

You may want to rethink :O:
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/391257_489162924429563_544184533_n.jpg?oh=4f278735 311194b46b768855d1be0675&oe=57644AFB

Get on my bad side and I'll give you her adress :haha:

Consider me on your good side then.:) She certainly looks formidable with the assault rifle. Dowly has " dibs " on her anyhow as he has said she is his type. :)

With her red hair and the rifle, I'm wondering if she was the inspiration for the rock group " guns and roses " taking their name :O:

[Oberon]

Bacon anyone?

GUN THE BACON!

[August]

GUN THE BACON!

Yes! :yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7UW5AkWqOY

[Buddahaid]

When is the pain gunna stop?

[HunterICX]

To answer this, If someone makes the choice to have a weapon in their home for protection or sport or any other number of valid reasons, They have an ethical, moral and of course legal responsibility to make sure the weapons in question are secured. If you have a child or children, then the gun owner may want to reevaluate the merits of having a weapon at home or elect to either get rid of the weapons or take increased actions to make sure they are secured. Again, it's a question of accountability and being a responsible gun owner.

Should the parent be held responsible ? In most jurisdictions, sanctions in the form of the filing of criminal charges will most likely be filed for failing to secure the weapon used. It's simple, if you have weapons which are relatively expensive to own, invest the same amount of money to make sure they are secure.

This is a different matter relative to holding a legally authorized gun manufacturer or seller legally responsible for a death or accident once it has left their respective factory or store and beyond their control.

Thanks for the answer :salute:


Yes! :yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7UW5AkWqOY

Hey, guns and bacon is all part of a complete and nutricious American breakfast :
http://i.imgur.com/AsWCqaI.jpg?1

:D

[Commander Wallace]

[QUOTE=HunterICX;2384567]Thanks for the answer :salute:

You are more than welcome. :salute: It was a good question. It's also one the courts have grappled with for some time.

[Betonov]

Damn that looks good.
And I wouldnt say no to the food either.

[August]

I would, that stuff looks nasty! And lobster for breakfast is just not American! :)

This is more like it (think of the guns being present, just not in the picture.)

http://www.greensiderestaurant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/breakfast-greenside.jpg

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks for the answer :salute:




Hey, guns and bacon is all part of a complete and nutricious American breakfast :
http://i.imgur.com/AsWCqaI.jpg?1

:D

I especially like the toast Jesus :D


.

[Oberon]

I recall talk of political correctness gone mad in America, and how some university lecturers were advised against mentioning certain subjects for fear of the reaction of the students.

I see what you mean now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-campus-carry-law-putting-damper-academic-debate-n525096

[Rockstar]

looking on the brightside these teachers still have the freedom to go find another job.

[Oberon]

That can only benefit the education system. :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

It probably would. For every teacher crying about the concealed carry law there are a dozen more well qualified educators to choose from waiting in line to take their job.

[Onkel Neal]

Here's gun control I can agree with: Severe penalties for people who allow their firearms to be used by others in a crime. Talk about lawsuit seeking accountability, start with this woman.

Sarah Hopkins, 28, of Newton, Kan., is charged with one count of knowingly transferring a firearm to a convicted felon. Prosecutors allege Hopkins, a friend of Cedric Ford, knew about his criminal history before giving him the semi-automatic rifle and handgun he used in the rampage that left 3 dead and 14 others wounded.

The Wichita Eagle reported Hopkins is the mother of Ford's two children. She moved out of her home with Ford in July and retrieved the guns from the house less than a month later with the help of police, the Eagle reported, citing an affidavit in the case. Shortly thereafter, Hopkins gave the guns back to Ford "because Ford had threatened her," the paper reported.

What? She has no assets to recover in litigation? Ok, 25 years in prison, no parole. People who own firearms should be responsible for them.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/02/26/kansas-gunman-kills-3-injures-14/80972434/

[Platapus]

And we need to start holding accountable adults that don't secure their weapons and allow children to have access.

Part of responsible gun ownership is properly securing the weapon. It needs to be part of the law.

If we are seriously considering holding gun manufacturers accountable (which I disagree with), we first need to hold legal gun owners accountable.

[Dowly]

A gun-loving Florida mom was accidentally shot in the back by her 4-year-old son with a .45-caliber pistol he found on the floor of her pickup truck, police said Wednesday. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jamie-gilt-florida-mom-accidentally-shot-4-year-old-son-n534981


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca9GuwuOVZc

[U505995]

I recall talk of political correctness gone mad in America, and how some university lecturers were advised against mentioning certain subjects for fear of the reaction of the students.

I see what you mean now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-campus-carry-law-putting-damper-academic-debate-n525096
In US universities anything students disagree with is deemed hate speech, and in the UK they try to no platform people to prevent them from speaking. It's completely mad to the point of liberals and conservatives teaming up to fight what is known now as the regressive left. There are several good youtubers making videos on the topic such as sargon of akkad, undoomed, thunderfoot, and the amazing atheist. It is quite interesting to watch.

[August]

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160304/senior-right-to-carry-permit-holder-shoots-two-attackers-wpvi-philadelphia-pa-03032016

Senior Right-to-Carry permit holder shoots two attackers, WPVI, Philadelphia, Pa. 03/03/2016



A 65-year-old resident and his wife were walking home from their business in Philadelphia, Pa. when a pair of men attacked them. The resident, a Right-to-Carry permit holder, responded to the attack by drawing a .45-caliber handgun and firing at the assailants, striking them both and causing them to halt their attack. Police caught up with the attackers a short time later and transported them to the hospital. The armed citizen did suffer injuries during the incident, with his attorney telling a local media outlet, “This was a matter of life or death. If he didn't do what he did, and he didn't have the training to do it. I think we would be at a funeral right now. It's that bad.” (WPVI, Philadelphia, Pa. 03/03/2016)

[Tchocky]

In US universities anything students disagree with is deemed hate speech

And this is in no way a ludicrous exaggeration.

No SIR.

[Sailor Steve]

...striking them both and causing them to halt their attack. I should hope so!

[August]

I should hope so!

I'm surprised they took shots from a .45 at close range and lived to run away. :)

[August]

And this is in no way a ludicrous exaggeration.

No SIR.

No it is not. It's a disturbing trend that has been becoming more prevalent in recent years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/hate-speech-on-campus/415200/

https://www.thefire.org/campus-speech-codes-dont-fix-hate-speech-they-stifle-true-debate/

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/hate-speech-campus-speech-codes

[Tchocky]

You're telling me this phrase isn't an exaggeration?

In US universities anything students disagree with is deemed hate speech

[August]

You're telling me this phrase isn't an exaggeration?

No, it's not a LUDICROUS exaggeration. I'm sure you can find some campus topic that students disagree with where nobody has played the hate speech card but you have to admit that it is being used a lot lately.

[August]

And another one in the news this morning since we're on the subject.

http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/31435693/homeowner-and-wife-shoot-kill-escaped-inmate-rafael-mccloud-during-home-invasion

VICKSBURG, MS (Mississippi News Now) - According to Vicksburg Police Chief Walter Armstrong, Warren County escaped inmate Rafael McCloud approached a man on Fort Hill as he started a car outside his home Thursday morning.
He then forced his way inside their home.
Police told us that McCloud tied up the man and his wife. He then stabbed the man.
The man got free and then he and his wife opened fire on McCloud, killing him.
The man was taken to the hospital with minor injuries.
His wife and child, who were at home at the time, were both unharmed.
The coroner and deputy coroner are on the scene now.

[Nippelspanner]

And this is in no way a ludicrous exaggeration.

No SIR.
It isn't, it really isn't.
There has been a huge wave of this PC BS in the last few years, snowballing with this weird new "feminism" wave and now the result is exactly that.

Disagree with what SJW's want?
Hate speech!

[Cybermat47]

It isn't, it really isn't.
There has been a huge wave of this PC BS in the last few years, snowballing with this weird new "feminism" wave and now the result is exactly that.

Disagree with what SJW's want?
Hate speech!

Yeah, tolerance is a good thing, but people are being way too extreme about it now, to the point that they're actively sabotaging themselves.

[Oberon]

Yeah, tolerance is a good thing, but people are being way too extreme about it now, to the point that they're actively sabotaging themselves.

But equally the push back has gone just as extreme...case in point GOP delegate and soon to be leader of the Republican party Donald Trump.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, the pendulum swings radically the opposite direction. Which is why reasonable people of good will must try to work together, even when it means compromise. And marginalize the radicals, like Trump.

[Oberon]

Yeah, the pendulum swings radically the opposite direction. Which is why reasonable people of good will must try to work together, even when it means compromise. And marginalize the radicals, like Trump.

Indeed, and to be honest Neal, as much as I know you like the guy, I think that Cruz is a bit too radical too, let's not forget after all that he was the de facto leader of the 'Tea Party' which has been undermining the GOP for the past decade. Unfortunately the best candidate, well...in my opinion at least, is Kaisch and he's only just starting to get off the starting blocks. :dead:

A Kaisch/Sanders battle would have made a refreshingly non-sensational debate and perhaps restored some much needed civility to American politics.

Maybe next time, eh? :dead:

[August]

Yeah, the pendulum swings radically the opposite direction. Which is why reasonable people of good will must try to work together, even when it means compromise. And marginalize the radicals, like Trump.

Unfortunately when it comes to the thread topic, compromise for the anti-gunners has come to mean that they'll settle for half an infringement for now then be right back at it again next year wanting to compromise for half of what's left and so on and so on. This is why pro-RKBA folks have refused play that game anymore even if it means being labeled radicals.

[August]

And another

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/13/us/washington-7-eleven-customer-shoots-attacker/index.html?eref=rss_latest


(CNN)A customer drinking coffee at a Seattle 7-Eleven Sunday morning drew a pistol and shot dead a hatchet-wielding man who went after him and the store clerk, authorities said. Investigators haven't yet identified the suspect, who's believed to be in his 40s and was wearing a mask when he entered the store early Sunday, the King County Sheriff's Office said. "The suspect did not make any statements but swung the hatchet at the customer and then went behind the counter and attacked the clerk," the sheriff's office said. Then, the customer fired back, according to the sheriff's office. Paramedics tried to resuscitate the suspect, authorities said, but he died at the scene. The customer, a 60-year-old man, had a concealed pistol license, according to the sheriff's office. He was not injured. The store's 58-year-old clerk had a minor injury to his stomach from the hatchet attack, the sheriff's office said.

[Gerald]

SAN ANTONIO - Two people were killed in an apparent murder-suicide at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio that triggered a lockdown at the facility, the Bexar County Sheriff's Office said.Military officials and the Federal Bureau of Investigation said the shooting was not an act of terrorism.[

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooter-idUSKCN0X51OW

Strange things happen when guns are involved.

Note:Fri Apr 8, 2016 1:12pm EDT

[mapuc]

Whatever it is a gun, riffle, machine gun etc there is one common thing behind all these weapons

A human-So the problem is not exactly the weapon but the person carrying or holding the weapon.

If there weren't any weapon-those people would have hurt/killed an another person or persons in some way or other.

Markus

[Platapus]

Strange things happen when guns are involved.



not really. Most of the time nothing of interest happens when guns are involved.

[Gerald]

not really. Most of the time nothing of interest happens when guns are involved.The possibilities is increasing even in percentage according to surveys.

[em2nought]

Bunch of bernie/hillary protesters in Sarasota yesterday holding signs saying they don't want their snot noses playing at someone's house who might not have his firearms properly secured. I really wanted to go make my own sign promoting natural selection. Teach your little gender confused snot noses some firearms safety instead why don't 'cha.

[Schroeder]

Teach your little gender confused snot noses some firearms safety instead why don't 'cha.
Firearms safety seems to be quite some problem in the US (and probably elsewhere as well) these days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agL59nLBAqk

[Commander Wallace]

Firearms safety seems to be quite some problem in the US (and probably elsewhere as well) these days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agL59nLBAqk


At some point, it might help to address mental health as well. Mentally unstable people and guns are a bad mix and will never end well for anyone.

[Oberon]

are a bad mix and will never end well for anyone.

Bit like gun control conversations and General Topics... :O:

[August]

The possibilities is increasing even in percentage according to surveys.

No it's not. The numbers of gun related homicides have been falling in this country for a couple of decades now.

[Onkel Neal]

Maybe it's time to add to the debate.

A stunning number lands in the middle of the gun debate (https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/assault-weapons-ban-fox-news-poll-gun-control/index.html)

As political Washington mulls what -- if anything -- to do legislatively to address the latest in a long line of mass murders committed with guns, a new Fox News poll has a number in it that is an absolute stunner.

That number is 67%, which reflects respondents who told pollsters that they support a ban on assault weapons. For you non-math majors out there, that's two-thirds of the American public!



This could be the end of legal military style rifles and high capacity magazines. Although, simply banning new sales won't do much without confiscating current owners. I'm leaning toward applying the same conditions for assault weapons as fully auto weapons, just require an expensive license that will put legal ownership out of reach for the average crazies.

Also, raise the age for all firearms to 30.

Last, stop releasing criminals who used weapons in crimes. Make it a life sentence.




Fox News Poll, August 14 (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-august-14)

[August]

Maybe it's time to add to the debate.

A stunning number lands in the middle of the gun debate (https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/politics/assault-weapons-ban-fox-news-poll-gun-control/index.html)



This could be the end of legal military style rifles and high capacity magazines. Although, simply banning new sales won't do much without confiscating current owners. I'm leaning toward applying the same conditions for assault weapons as fully auto weapons, just require an expensive license that will put legal ownership out of reach for the average crazies.

Also, raise the age for all firearms to 30.

Last, stop releasing criminals who used weapons in crimes. Make it a life sentence.




Fox News Poll, August 14 (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-august-14)


One poll does not justify taking away the rights of millions of Americans but even if it were to pass I'd bet noncompliance would be rampant. There are upwards of 20 million AR-15's alone in civilian hands. The government would play hell trying to take them.

[Aktungbby]

Also, raise the age for all firearms to 30.

Last, stop releasing criminals who used weapons in crimes. Make it a life sentence. I agree on the thirty year age limit; testosterone and a sense of consequences has generally caught up with intelligence by then. Life sentence is too lite and costly imho. The use of deadly force/deprivation of life by firearm should invoke the death penalty. Escalation-of-force training leaves no room: use of the gun is unmitigated deadly force... with intent and ability both legal elements of the crime. Also with the present state of affairs, an absolutely unrelenting deterrent factor must be considered-more a Federal than dithering state jurisdiction-to insure uniformity of enforcement. Many states have the automatic death penalty for killing cops; a cop is "an extension of the community they serve' or so it was taught at my P.O.S.T. academy. So, just extend the deterrent protection to the 'sovereign citizen' as well. Use a gun to wound or cause death: and U face the death penalty!

[Buddahaid]

Yes, but what of the homeowner who is deemed to have crossed that line in home defense. The death penalty?

[Onkel Neal]

Key words: home defense

[Buddahaid]

Yes, but there is that line where the home invader is considered to be under control and any further shots become a crime of the homeowner such as continuing to shoot if they are attempting to flee.

[Dowly]

Although, simply banning new sales won't do much without confiscating current owners.No, it won't. It would take many many many years for those type of weapons to be out of circulation. The number would lessen slowly as police would respond to various calls, domestic etc. and confiscate those types of weapons if found.

[em2nought]

As soon as semi-auto rifles are gone they'll make the point that handguns are used to kill far more people than rifles to begin with so those gotta go. Hell, blunt instruments(fists, bats, golf clubs) kill more people per year than rifles. Hippos kill more people than rifles. End game for them is to take away the second amendment and disarm law abiding conservatives, just like it's always been.



https://swh-826d.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/hippopotamus.jpg

[Catfish]

^ Hippo-crite! :O:

[Onkel Neal]

Yes, but there is that line where the home invader is considered to be under control and any further shots become a crime of the homeowner such as continuing to shoot if they are attempting to flee.


That's true, and it depends on your individual view on what level of violence one can deal out to a home invader. If I'm on a jury, the outcome would be different that if you were on instead, I'm sure. As far as I care, if the situation is a true home invasion by an individual intent on burglary, then all bets are off.

No, it won't. It would take many many many years for those type of weapons to be out of circulation. The number would lessen slowly as police would respond to various calls, domestic etc. and confiscate those types of weapons if found.

Yeah, so if we were to enact laws that forbid ownership of an AR-14, we could not expect to see true change for a couple generations. I'm not sure that is worth it, especially when there are millions of AR-15 owners like me and August who have never and will never use their weapon in a crime. Probably 99% of all assault weapon owners fit in this category, so is it fair, does it make sense to pounish them, for the insane actions of a tiny few?


As soon as semi-auto rifles are gone they'll make the point that handguns are used to kill far more people than rifles to begin with so those gotta go.




Yep, I'm sure of that. :yep:

[Catfish]

Maybe OT, but i always wondered how this is handled in the US - and it may well be that it is different in different states:

Someone has a house and property, to get to the door to ring or whatever you, a complete stranger, have to cross the lawn, walk an entrance way or whatever is in front of the house.

Maybe you are the new postman, or from Hermes, DHL or whatever, maybe not easily to identify though.
Or you are a new neighbour, and want to introduce yourself.
Or your car broke down, and you want to ask for a telephone call.
Or some salesman.

You clearly cannot shout or ring from the outer perimeter of the property.
So, what is the owner of said property allowed or supposed to do when a stranger enters it?


California: "Come in man and smoke a joint!" ?
Texas: Boom! ?
:hmmm:

[u crank]

People, for various reasons knock on doors or ring doorbells all the time. The homeowner has a choice as to whether to answer or not or to determine who is on his property. On the other hand if an individual enters a home without permission...well that is a completly different story. I don't own a gun but if someone enters my home without my permission I am under no obligation to treat him as a guest. :D

[Onkel Neal]

Nice false characterization, lol. No, we just say hi, can I help you? Want to come in for glass of tea?

If it's at night and they're carrying my tv, then headshot

[Aktungbby]

Nice false characterization, lol. No, we just say hi, can I help you? Want to come in for glass of tea?

If it's at night and they're carrying my tv, then headshot Actually, I just detain the idiot carrying my tv with my laser equipped .9mm BERRETTA DAO https://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/bennett/art_images/cg5d4b9f2092a90.jpg (https://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=178974) and proceed to direct what other objects he'll remove so I can fill out a burglary insurance form and upgrade...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6r2Wi0E98 :up: saves a bullet and I don't have to dig a big hole in the back yard:O:

[Rockstar]

I picked up a Barrett M-95 .50 BMG not too long ago just because I can that and they're a helluva a lot of fun to shoot. Only one range in this area with a 500 yard lane though. Anything less really doesnt make it worth while to expend $80.00 or so dollars in ammo and that's the cheap stuff.

http://stripgunclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/barret-98.png

Now that's a shootin' iron!

[Onkel Neal]

Wrong thread, lol

[Rockstar]

well, it does take a great deal gun control on my part when I pull the trigger on that beast.

[August]

I'm not sure that is worth it, especially when there are millions of AR-15 owners like me and August who have never and will never use their weapon in a crime. Probably 99% of all assault weapon owners fit in this category, so is it fair, does it make sense to pounish them, for the insane actions of a tiny few?


Where is Platapus with his Latin warning signature about how "Abuse does not take away from the use"? :)

The truth is that any right can and is abused. But if we are going to use that fact as an excuse to take away the rights of those who aren't abusing them then that same concept can also be applied to every other so called "right" as well.

For example some people use their right to privacy to hide criminal activity, therefore by this theory that right needs to be, if not outright repealed, then like they are trying to do with the 2A at least legislated into insignificance.

The same concept is already slowly being applied to the right of free speech, the right to assemble, the right to avoid self incrimination and the rest so when a politician says "Rights have Limits" what he really means is the government that was created to safeguard your rights sees itself as more powerful than those rights and therefore can ignore them as it sees fit.

[Onkel Neal]

Reporter admittedly desperate to make Wal-Mart look bad (https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-gun-buying-review-virginia-store-2019-8#i-started-filling-out-the-necessary-paperwork-to-buy-a-gun-11) actually shows herself to be irresponsible.

But I had only just finished printing my name when she stopped me and asked whether the address on my license matched my home address. I had moved since I obtained my license, and the addresses didn't match.

Hey lady, don't you know the law requires you to keep your driver's license current? Busted!

[Platapus]

abusus non tollit usum -



Translation: "abuse does not preclude proper use"



A legal maxim in the context of -- A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

[August]

These Red Flag laws make me wonder.

What is the sense of declaring somebody to be a danger but then only confiscating their guns and just leaving them to their own devices?

In case anyone doesn't know the way these laws work, somebody, a family member, social worker, ex wife, etc makes a claim to a judge that the subject is a danger to themselves or others. The judge issues a confiscation order for the subjects firearms. The cops show up at the subjects home, present the order and demand that the subject surrender all their firearms.

Now here is the strange part.

If the subject complies without resisting then the cops just take the guns and leave him there still depressed or angry or crazy enough to be a danger to themselves or others. Somebody that was supposedly bent on committing suicide or murder is supposedly completely deterred by the lack of a gun. We leave a depressed person with plenty of rope, razor blades and alone standing next to an open window in a room on the top floor of a tall building and we leave a manic free to plot his revenge on those who dropped a dime on him.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

[Dowly]

Re:suicide


There have been studies that show a gun is an easy way out, because it is sudden and final. Methods that take time carry out or are slower to take effect (drugs for example) and more painful have shown to deter suicidal persons in some cases. I believe the fences at the Golden Gate Bridge were used as an example; the time it takes to climb them gives the person time to rethink about what they are doing.


Of course, if someone REALLY wants to off themself then they'll find a way without a gun.

[Onkel Neal]

Beto O'Rourke: Fines will 'compel' AR-15 owners to turn their guns in (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/beto-orourke-fines-will-compel-ar-15-owners-to-turn-them-in)

This idiot will start the civil war. Just imagine gun sales if he was to win the Democratic nomination. :O:

O'Rourke claimed a "longtime Republican" spoke to him in the bathroom while they were urinating, telling the Democrat he's all in for the gun confiscation.

"New O'Rourke anecdote: He says a longtime Republican chatted him up today in [Buc-ee's Beaver] bathroom on guns," posted Svitek. "He said, 'This is gonna be strange — not strange that I'm talking to you while we're both at a urinal ... but strange because I'm telling you you're absolutely right on guns.'"

That's the most made up bunch of BS (https://www.dailywire.com/news/51799/beto-claims-texas-gun-owners-want-gun-confiscation-amanda-prestigiacomo), he's giving Biden a run for his money.

[Commander Wallace]

These Red Flag laws make me wonder.

What is the sense of declaring somebody to be a danger but then only confiscating their guns and just leaving them to their own devices?

In case anyone doesn't know the way these laws work, somebody, a family member, social worker, ex wife, etc makes a claim to a judge that the subject is a danger to themselves or others. The judge issues a confiscation order for the subjects firearms. The cops show up at the subjects home, present the order and demand that the subject surrender all their firearms.

Now here is the strange part.

If the subject complies without resisting then the cops just take the guns and leave him there still depressed or angry or crazy enough to be a danger to themselves or others. Somebody that was supposedly bent on committing suicide or murder is supposedly completely deterred by the lack of a gun. We leave a depressed person with plenty of rope, razor blades and alone standing next to an open window in a room on the top floor of a tall building and we leave a manic free to plot his revenge on those who dropped a dime on him.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?


One problem i see with this August is that the weapon confiscation is without due process. What if someone is angry with someone or has an ax to grind and without cause or exercising malice or extreme prejudice decides to call the police to say someone is a danger to themselves and their community.


The authorities may end up taking weapons that never should have been taken in the first place. If on the other hand, someone is a legitimate dangers, by all means : secure : their weapons and as you said, diffuse the situation and get them the help they need.

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ortneronline.at%2Fwaffenbesitz-und-das-recht-auf-leben-eine-grundsatzfrage%2F



The right to life can not be relativized or questioned by considerations of "social utility". The denial of possession of weapons means favoring violent attacks and thus an attack on the right to life. Therefore, utilitarian considerations on this issue are problematic, because in this way human lives are degraded to the calculation mass. However, according to Hsiao, this conflicts with the fundamental right to life.
(...)
Nevertheless, a life-threatening attack is most effectively countered by the use of force of arms.

[Aktungbby]

Re:suicide
I believe the fences at the Golden Gate Bridge were used as an example; the time it takes to climb them gives the person time to rethink about what they are doing.

WORSE YET: SOME TIME AGO (90'S) I HAD APPLIED FOR A SECURITY POSITION ON THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE AND WAS INTERVIEWED BY A PANEL WHO ASKED WHAT I WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY. I ANSWERED DEADPAN "I WOULD OPEN A BUNGEE-CORD CONCESSION AND LET EM 'TRY IT ONCE' :doh: MY BARRACK'S HUMOR BEING CORRECT:shucks:: I WAS OFFERED THE POSITION BUT DECLINED: I DIDN'T WANT 2 B GRAVE-SHIFTS AT 0200 ON HORRIBLE STORMY WINTER NIGHTS! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Suicidemessageggb01252006.JPG/1024px-Suicidemessageggb01252006.JPG

[em2nought]

Beto O'Rourke: Fines will 'compel' AR-15 owners to turn their guns in (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/beto-orourke-fines-will-compel-ar-15-owners-to-turn-them-in)

This idiot will start the civil war. Just imagine gun sales if he was to win the Democratic nomination. :O:



That's the most made up bunch of BS (https://www.dailywire.com/news/51799/beto-claims-texas-gun-owners-want-gun-confiscation-amanda-prestigiacomo), he's giving Biden a run for his money.
Beto probably just misunderstood, the dude probably told Beto to go ahead and show up at his door to collect his firearms. :03: :03:

[August]

One problem i see with this August is that the weapon confiscation is without due process. What if someone is angry with someone or has an ax to grind and without cause or exercising malice or extreme prejudice decides to call the police to say someone is a danger to themselves and their community.


The authorities may end up taking weapons that never should have been taken in the first place. If on the other hand, someone is a legitimate dangers, by all means : secure : their weapons and as you said, diffuse the situation and get them the help they need.


I don't like them because of the lack of due process either for the very reasons you mention but I also think that the very idea of red flag laws themselves are faulty. A person is considered to be dangerous enough to disarm but not dangerous enough to even monitor afterward? It doesn't make sense.

[Commander Wallace]

I don't like them because of the lack of due process either for the very reasons you mention but I also think that the very idea of red flag laws themselves are faulty. A person is considered to be dangerous enough to disarm but not dangerous enough to even monitor afterward? It doesn't make sense.




I agree with you on that as well. I think there should be an honest and open dialog regarding weapons and the mentally Ill. Where to even start with something like this. Colt has said they will no longer manufacture the AR-15 for sale to the general public.



The people i know have an odd assortment of weapons they use for hunting and to protect their homes. They are not the danger. It's the crazies out there. It's anyone's guess how anyone would address that.

[Mr Quatro]

This is what Franklin Graham had to say :hmmm:

Franklin Graham

Canada has some of the strictest gun laws in the world, so many people can’t understand how a horrible shooting like this can occur with those laws in place.
But criminals don’t obey the laws. Gun laws don’t stop people from doing evil things.

[August]

Very sorry to hear this.
I wonder if it will ever come out what drove this man to commit such senseless murder :nope:


I am sure that all his thoughts and actions will be micro analysed enough that it will serve as both a critique and a How To manual for the next nut.

[Commander Wallace]

I am sure that all his thoughts and actions will be micro analysed enough that it will serve as both a critique and a How To manual for the next nut.


:agree: I once saw a license plate that said " Fight crime, shoot back."


I liked it a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is and we have discussed this before in this forum. I do know that intelligent, reasonable and sane people that are armed make poor targets.

[vienna]

:agree: I once saw a license plate that said " Fight crime, shoot back."


I liked it a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is and we have discussed this before in this forum. I do know that intelligent, reasonable and sane people that are armed make poor targets.


...and we do know that unintelligent, unreasonable and insane people that are armed are just as likely to shoot poor targets, armed or not...


...just ask the family of the armed, slain RCMP constable...





<O>

[August]

:agree: I once saw a license plate that said " Fight crime, shoot back."


I liked it a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is and we have discussed this before in this forum. I do know that intelligent, reasonable and sane people that are armed make poor targets.


Taking guns away from innocent people because of the actions of a nut is like kicking the cat because the dog crapped on the carpet.

[Commander Wallace]

...and we do know that unintelligent, unreasonable and insane people that are armed are just as likely to shoot poor targets, armed or not...


...just ask the family of the armed, slain RCMP constable...

<O>


Precisely my point. If people are armed, at least they stand a fighting chance when confronted by a nut like this.

Taking guns away from innocent people because of the actions of a nut is like kicking the cat because the dog crapped on the carpet.

I never said anything about taking guns away from anyone. In fact, I said well armed people make poor targets.

[Catfish]

:agree: I once saw a license plate that said " Fight crime, shoot back."
I liked it a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is and we have discussed this before in this forum. I do know that intelligent, reasonable and sane people that are armed make poor targets.
Sure, but if some maniac carries his gun concealed and gets close to his victim, which chance does this armed victim have to act in time, e.g. in a crowd? Mistrust every other human within possible gun range? You are never safe against maniacs.

Guns or no guns, pathological cases will always find a way to wreak havoc. If all have guns they will use explosives like with the Oklahoma city bombing or whatever.

Maybe August 'misunderstood' (intentionally of course), that i moan the shooting of the mass murderer. I do not. But i think it would be good for mankind if it knew what makes those people tick, if only to prevent more of this carnage.

[Commander Wallace]

Sure, but if some maniac carries his gun concealed and gets close to his victim, which chance does this armed victim have to act in time, e.g. in a crowd? Mistrust every other human within possible gun range? You are never safe against maniacs.

Guns or no guns, pathological cases will always find a way to wreak havoc. If all have guns they will use explosives like with the Oklahoma city bombing or whatever.

Maybe August 'misunderstood' (intentionally of course), that i moan the shooting of the mass murderer. I do not. But i think it would be good for mankind if it knew what makes those people tick, if only to prevent more of this carnage.

I don't disagree with you, Kai. As is being reported in the Nova Scotia shooting, there are multiple crime scenes. Something is driving the stupid mentality that compels people to engage in the carnage we are seeing today and at Nova Scotia. Maybe in this case, the isolation with regards to Covid-19 in conjunction with other factors like mental defects drove this act. Who really knows.

My point is that if a lunatic like this one is shooting a number of people in one location, then the legally armed individual has a means to defend themselves or at least make the active shooter pause long enough so that they and others can be afforded the opportunity to escape. This way, trained individuals like law enforcement, with the equipment and training, can effectively deal with the situation without worrying about harming innocent bystanders.

I think generally, the people I meet out on the street and in business are like the people here. Reasonable, intelligent and more likely to buy you a beer at the pub and tell you funny stories and watch a sporting event with you than harm you in any way. In that way, I think Subsim members are a cross section of society. I'm sure my experiences are no different than anyone else here.

Meaning, as August was alluding to I think, that crazy people make up a very small percentage of the population. I know a number of our Subsim members go legally armed and I don't hear of them harming anyone. They do so to protect themselves, their families and possibly others, if they are in harms way. That being said, I'm sure they are as prepared as one can be for the mindless events such as random shootings.

I think if people want to get their aggression's out, they should play a submarine or aerial combat game. Perhaps give whack-a squirrel a go. I would have said watch a Hockey game but the rest of the paused NHL season is in doubt. :wah: If they do that, they should pick a winning NHL team to watch or they will be very sad. :yep:

[Catfish]

^ Thanks yes, i understand and agree, mostly. I am also not "anti-gun", i can handle a few and also admire craftmanship. It just makes me feel uneasy to see those weapons in civilian life in the hands of people i would call .."unprofessional" for lack of a better word :hmmm:.
[...] My point is that if a lunatic like this one is shooting a number of people in one location, then the legally armed individual has a means to defend themselves or at least make them pause long enough so that they and others can be afforded the opportunity to escape. This way, trained individuals like like law enforcement, with the equipment and training, can effectively deal with the situation without worrying about harming innocent bystanders.[...]
Sounds reasonable. So carry a weapon as an emergency means to deal with (hopefully rare) "maniac situations". If all people behave reasonable that may work. But when i look at the US and headlines i doubt the reason in some.

Good ideas anyway:salute:
And maybe i indeed misunderstood August here.

[August]

I never said anything about taking guns away from anyone. In fact, I said well armed people make poor targets.




I was agreeing with you and extending the line of reasoning further.

[August]

Sure, but if some maniac carries his gun concealed and gets close to his victim, which chance does this armed victim have to act in time, e.g. in a crowd? Mistrust every other human within possible gun range? You are never safe against maniacs.

Guns or no guns, pathological cases will always find a way to wreak havoc. If all have guns they will use explosives like with the Oklahoma city bombing or whatever.

Maybe August 'misunderstood' (intentionally of course), that i moan the shooting of the mass murderer. I do not. But i think it would be good for mankind if it knew what makes those people tick, if only to prevent more of this carnage.




What is this, misunderstand August day? I didn't claim that you moaned (i'm guessing you meant "bemoaned") the shooting of a mass murderer, how the heck did you get that from what I wrote? I was just commenting that if this follows every other mass murder all the psychoanalyzing and fact finding will only serve to inspire the next mass murderer.

[Commander Wallace]

I was agreeing with you and extending the line of reasoning further.

Oh, I know August and I was pointing out the soundness of your reasoning as well so it's all good.


I was pointing out that someone that is also armed can in some cases slow down or stop an attack like this. I think you said something similar perhaps a year ago and nothing has changed my mind on that.

Taking weapons from law abiding citizens isn't the answer. Something else I think you said. So, we are on the same page.

With regards to stopping senseless attacks like the one in Nova Scotia, I wish we all knew the answer to that one.

[Onkel Neal]

Canada solves their mass shooting problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhFRhf3WMvM

[Platapus]

I liked it a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is and we have discussed this before in this forum. I do know that intelligent, reasonable and sane people that are armed make poor targets.


Yeah, from the front and assuming they have time to react.


But everyone has equal vulnerability from attacks from the rear.


If we could only convince criminals to not only attack from the front but to announce their intentions, we might have something

[MaDef]

Yeah, from the front and assuming they have time to react.


But everyone has equal vulnerability from attacks from the rear.


If we could only convince criminals to not only attack from the front but to announce their intentions, we might have something

all I can say is WOW....

[Commander Wallace]

Yeah, from the front and assuming they have time to react.


But everyone has equal vulnerability from attacks from the rear.


If we could only convince criminals to not only attack from the front but to announce their intentions, we might have something

And if involved in an incident where there is an active shooter bent on causing as much carnage as possible, being armed gives the innocent bystander the opportunity to either escape or engage the active shooter with the idea of mitigating the damage and loss of life the active shooter is intent on causing.

No one wants to be involved in anything like that and no system of defense is fool proof. These are the chances you take out in the public in these days and times, Platapus. If you have a better idea, we would love to hear it.

For me and many others though, I would rather take my chances with my concealed weapon and go down swinging. This is why anyone who carries should know their carry weapon and it's strengths and limitations and be proficient in it's use. This includes tactics as well.

[Rockstar]

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jeremy-london/2019/09/37-mass-shooters-who-were-on-antidepressants/


Every time there’s a mass shooting in America it understandably starts up another “national conversation” about gun rights because, by definition, there would be no mass shootings without guns.
But since mass shootings are perpetrated by an extremely tiny minority of gun owners, many of whom don’t even own their guns legally, perhaps it’s naïve to think that gun ownership is itself the sole or even primary cause of mass shootings. Countries such as Norway, France, and Switzerland—all of which have stricter gun laws and lower per-capita gun ownership than the United States—have far higher per-capita rates of mass shootings.
When searching for other reasons for mass shootings, people blame things such as one-parent households, video games, loss of religious faith, or simply the vague sense that the nation is falling apart.
Although only 8.6% of American males are on antidepressants at any given time, they seem much better represented as a percentage of mass shooters. Here are 39 mass shooters who were either on antidepressants at the time of their rampage, had abruptly quit taking their medication when they went on their spree, or had been prescribed antidepressants at some point in the past. None of this is to imply that antidepressants make certain people go on mass shootings—just as few people with guns go on shooting sprees, so do few people on antidepressants. But it is an area that is definitely worth researching.

[MaDef]

Somebody is looking for federal grant money.

[August]

...we might have something

So what's your point Platapus? Since no means of defense is 100% effective why bother even trying?

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, from the front and assuming they have time to react.


But everyone has equal vulnerability from attacks from the rear.


If we could only convince criminals to not only attack from the front but to announce their intentions, we might have something


True but I sure feel better on a daily basis knowing I have a chance to make it a fair fight. :shucks:

[Commander Wallace]

Yeah, from the front and assuming they have time to react.

But everyone has equal vulnerability from attacks from the rear.

If we could only convince criminals to not only attack from the front but to announce their intentions, we might have something


Maybe this might help to put things in perspective, Platapus.

Quote: October 27, 2018, at the Tree of Life – Or L'Simcha Congregation in the Squirrel Hill neighborhood of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The congregation, along with New Light Congregation and Congregation Dor Hadash, which also worshipped in the building, was attacked during Shabbat morning services. The shooter killed eleven people and wounded six. It was the deadliest attack on the Jewish community in the United States.

Robert Gregory Bowers, 46 years old, was arrested at the scene and charged as the suspect with 63 federal crimes, some of which are capital crimes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_go vernment).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting

Although this took place at a Jewish house of worship, it has nothing to do with this topic. At 9:50 a.m. EDT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Time_Zone) (13:50 UTC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time)), a gunman described as a "bearded heavy-set white male" entered the building, opened fire and was "shooting for about 20 minutes".

The reason I mention this incident is because it took this moronic, cowardly individual ( Robert Bowers ) 20 minutes to select and kill his victims. You had mentioned, Platapus, that coming up from the rear, anyone can be vulnerable and you are quite correct. However, With the first shot taken by Bowers, the element of surprise was lost.

Bowers apparently had no fear of return fire as he systematically and methodically moved about the building and found, shot and killed his victims.

I wondered when I heard about this incident what might have been if any of the victims or others had been armed and returned fire. It's conjecture on my part or anyone else to think it might have made a difference. On the other hand, cowards like Bowers tend to retreat in the face of force. Bowers might have been killed or incapacitated to where he could do no more harm or perhaps ran off before he could claim as many victims as he did. In all, Bowers killed 11 people and wounded 7.

I personally think one or more armed worshipers would have made a difference. At the very least, it may have given those potential victims the time and opportunity to escape and also given law enforcement time to arrive on the scene. The Pittsburgh Police and SWAT teams did arrive and Bowers wounded 4 police officers as well before Bowers himself was shot and wounded. There have been others shootings like this at public places as well.

I remember reading another news story where 3 armed intruders engaged in a home invasion.The homeowner was hurt but his son used an assault rifle and quickly killed the 3 intruders. It was quickly said, " Another happy ending brought to you, courtesy of the 2nd Amendment."

The people I know that go armed don't like to think about situations like the one I just detailed. However, the same people that use a weapon as part of a comprehensive strategy to protect themselves and their families have already thought these and other scenarios through.

[Rockstar]

I dont know about being equally vulnerable from the rear. Situational awareness can give one an edge too.

[Onkel Neal]

BREAKING NEWS: Seventy-Two Killed Resisting Gun Confiscation In Massachusetts.

National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned weapons were ambushed by elements of a Para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement.

Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group’s organizers as “criminals,” issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government’s efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed weapons.

Gage issued a ban on military-style weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that “none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily.” Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government’s plans.

During a tense standoff in the Lexington town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists. Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces over matched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops.

Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as “ringleaders” of the extremist faction, remain at large.

---------------------

Hmmm... with the new administration, thought this would getting topical soon.

[Onkel Neal]

Some thread we were discussing the risks of using a firearm to stop a mass shooter in a public space like a club, where if you pulled your CC, another CC owner could not know your intentions and there could be confusion and the wrong people hurt, etc.
Cannot find that thread :k_confused:

Hero who stopped Colorado gunman shot dead by police in case of mistaken identity (https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/man-who-shot-colorado-gunman-was-mistaken-by-police-to-be-killer/)

Unfortunately, seems like this happened yesterday in Denver. The guy did the trick, but for some reason he was not very careful about being mistaken for a shooter himself. That, and the cop should have issued at least one warning, bad move on his part.

Johnny Hurley, 40, was shopping in downtown Arvada, a Denver suburb, when he heard Ronald Troyke ambush and murder Officer Gordon Beesley, who was responding to a call Monday afternoon, officials said.

Troyke, 59, then returned to his truck to grab an AR-15, and was holding it when Hurley — who was carrying a concealed weapon — confronted him and shot him dead, Police Chief Link Strate said in a video clip posted Friday.

But when another officer responded to the scene, he saw Hurley holding the suspect’s rifle — and tragically mistook the good Samaritan for the cop killer, fatally shooting him, Strate said.

[Jimbuna]

^ Tragic :nope:

[Buddahaid]

^ Tragic :nope:

It won't be the last as CC or open carry is getting so popular and I'm sick of getting ads for CC holsters and apocolypse ration packs. I do feel that for some it's sensible under the circumstances they find themselves in, but I know people who do it just because they can or have succumbed to all the media fear mongering people are exposed to these days. Hell, I even thought about it after The Patriot Act was enacted and the government started acting more overtly invasive.

[3catcircus]

Some thread we were discussing the risks of using a firearm to stop a mass shooter in a public space like a club, where if you pulled your CC, another CC owner could not know your intentions and there could be confusion and the wrong people hurt, etc.
Cannot find that thread :k_confused:

Hero who stopped Colorado gunman shot dead by police in case of mistaken identity (https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/man-who-shot-colorado-gunman-was-mistaken-by-police-to-be-killer/)

Unfortunately, seems like this happened yesterday in Denver. The guy did the trick, but for some reason he was not very careful about being mistaken for a shooter himself. That, and the cop should have issued at least one warning, bad move on his part.

Until we know more, it's tough to armchair quarterback this.

Could be Hurley or the officer or both panicked. In many cases, unfortunately, not all police officers are that well-trained for these types of situations. In others, some people who are cops shouldn't be. Or it could be that Hurley ignored or didn't understand instructions from a panicked out of breath officer.

Sucks all around.

[vienna]

I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the cop who shot Hurley; you're a cop responding to a call of an active shooter, come on the scene, and you see a civilian down on the ground, as well as a fellow officer down, and a guy is standing there with an assault rifle over the bodies; so, let's do the math: officer down call, active shooter reported with assault rifle, you come on the scene, see two down and a guy with the AR-15 in his hands standing over the bodies; with the knowledge of an active shooter situation, one who has already killed a cop, and maybe the guy on the ground, making him a highly unpredictable perp, with the possibility he may open fire not just on you, but, also, civilians in the area, you move to neutralize the perceived threat, as you have been trained to do in active shooter situations...

The whole situation is tragic, but consider: if Hurley, after shooting the killer, had just kicked away the AR-15 from the proximity of the dead killer's body and holstered his own sidearm, the responding officer would have seen a very different scene when he rolled up, and a far lees tragic result would have occurred...

I also feel for the officer who shot Hurley because, given what he knows now about the situation, the fact he shot and killed an innocent man, and a hero, to boot, is something that will haunt him probably for the rest of his life...



<O>

[Rockstar]

Its little bit more than mistaken identity or procedure. Good officers are briefed daily on the threats they'll face while on or off duty. Its what they think about, A LOT

These days politicians denounce lawenforcement as stortroopers and the main stream media happily regurgitate it to the masses who will react violently to it. Its almost as if police officers are being set up to fail to give politicians something to talk about (when it suits them).

[August]

Some thread we were discussing the risks of using a firearm to stop a mass shooter in a public space like a club, where if you pulled your CC, another CC owner could not know your intentions and there could be confusion and the wrong people hurt, etc.
Cannot find that thread :k_confused:

Hero who stopped Colorado gunman shot dead by police in case of mistaken identity (https://nypost.com/2021/06/26/man-who-shot-colorado-gunman-was-mistaken-by-police-to-be-killer/)

Unfortunately, seems like this happened yesterday in Denver. The guy did the trick, but for some reason he was not very careful about being mistaken for a shooter himself. That, and the cop should have issued at least one warning, bad move on his part.

Well maybe it's nitpicking but its not quite the same thing. It was not another cc holder but rather a policeman who arrived after the shooting had stopped.

Another thing to consider is guy was holding a rifle. Not something that a CC holder would carry indoors. Maybe the cop would have hesitated if the guy was holding his own pistol, or more likely had re-holstered it already, as he apparently did in order to pick up the rifle.

My last thought might seem a bit callous but the truth is even with that terrible friendly fire death a lot more lives were saved by him being there with his firearm that day.

[Onkel Neal]

Armed robber shot in face by armed victim in Texas just days after permitless carry begins

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiRGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmZveG5ld3MuY29tL3VzL2FybWVkLX JvYmJlci1zaG90LWZhY2UtYXJtZWQtdmljdGltLXRleGFz0gFI aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZm94bmV3cy5jb20vdXMvYXJtZWQtcm9iYm VyLXNob3QtZmFjZS1hcm1lZC12aWN0aW0tdGV4YXMuYW1w?hl= en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Additionally, no charges are expected to be brought against the victim, as he was defending himself.

"He’s being extremely cooperative. He has no criminal history whatsoever," Willkens said of the victim.

[August]

Armed robber shot in face by armed victim in Texas just days after permitless carry begins

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiRGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmZveG5ld3MuY29tL3VzL2FybWVkLX JvYmJlci1zaG90LWZhY2UtYXJtZWQtdmljdGltLXRleGFz0gFI aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZm94bmV3cy5jb20vdXMvYXJtZWQtcm9iYm VyLXNob3QtZmFjZS1hcm1lZC12aWN0aW0tdGV4YXMuYW1w?hl= en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Additionally, no charges are expected to be brought against the victim, as he was defending himself.

"He’s being extremely cooperative. He has no criminal history whatsoever," Willkens said of the victim.




Sounds like the victim had excellent gun control.

[em2nought]

Armed robber shot in face by armed victim in Texas just days after permitless carry begins

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiRGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmZveG5ld3MuY29tL3VzL2FybWVkLX JvYmJlci1zaG90LWZhY2UtYXJtZWQtdmljdGltLXRleGFz0gFI aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZm94bmV3cy5jb20vdXMvYXJtZWQtcm9iYm VyLXNob3QtZmFjZS1hcm1lZC12aWN0aW0tdGV4YXMuYW1w?hl= en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Additionally, no charges are expected to be brought against the victim, as he was defending himself.

"He’s being extremely cooperative. He has no criminal history whatsoever," Willkens said of the victim.


Fear of having to give a lawyer $30,000 just for starters would be a very real thing if I ever got into a situation in which I had to shoot a bad hombre. :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

It's always good when I hear someone has no criminal history, that's a clear pass in my eyes.

[mapuc]

If I did the same here in Denmark or in Sweden, shot a man in the face as defending myself I could prepare a life in Prison.

You are allowed to defend yourself but not kill the perpetrator. Except if your life is in imminent danger, but even here you can be accused if you used more force than necessary

Markus

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/4vffE7UPKsc

[Buddahaid]

I never seriously felt like owning a firearm until the Patriot Act was enacted twenty years ago. I had plenty of air guns to play with but just didn't need a gun. The reason was I felt the government was stomping on constitutional rights so I exercised one to thumb my nose at Congress.

[les green01]

i pack all the time i c&c in the city but most times here i open carry,i feel better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

[Arlo]

i pack all the time i c&c in the city but most times here i open carry,i feel better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

Sometimes it involves wanting it more than needing it (maybe a tad too much). Never-the-less 'needing it' often involves failed situational awareness. :shucks:

[Sean C]

Never-the-less 'needing it' often involves failed situational awareness. :shucks:


The same could be said about seat belts, but most people choose to use them.

[3catcircus]

If I did the same here in Denmark or in Sweden, shot a man in the face as defending myself I could prepare a life in Prison.

You are allowed to defend yourself but not kill the perpetrator. Except if your life is in imminent danger, but even here you can be accused if you used more force than necessary

Markus

I think you missed the part where the perpetrator was armed... If a man is willing to use a weapon to commit a crime against you, he'll do it again to someone else. Killing him ensures he won't do it to someone else. Besides, the perp is going to live in this case.

That the perpetrator didn't actually shoot at the victim is irrelevant. Live by the sword, die by the sword...

[Arlo]

The same could be said about seat belts, but most people choose to use them.

Rather non-sequitur. But I'm used to that, by now. :shucks:

[August]

I never seriously felt like owning a firearm until the Patriot Act was enacted twenty years ago. I had plenty of air guns to play with but just didn't need a gun. The reason was I felt the government was stomping on constitutional rights so I exercised one to thumb my nose at Congress.




:up: The best reason for owning a firearm is because the government doesn't want you to have one.

[Onkel Neal]

Gun control in Israel is relatively strict, and firearm licenses are generally only granted to those who can show a need for extra security in their line of work or daily life. Meaning, one of the key criteria for a private citizen to receive permission to own a gun is where they live.

“I support the citizen and the individual over government elitists,” Yoel Israel, CEO of a digital marketing agency said. “I care about human rights and people’s lives. Guns are the great equalizer. Why is my wife afraid, and I keep only a golf club near my bed? It doesn’t make sense.”


https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-hamas-war-rages-personal-firearm-activists-see-surge-in-interest/#:~:text=In%20Israel%2C%20the%20usual%20personal,b ackground%20check%2C%20among%20other%20things.

I know it's not an immediate problem, but with the huge influx of illegals (millions), we will be dealing with the cartel and a corrupt local govt soon, I'm damn glad I don't just have a golf club to fight back with.

[em2nought]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-hamas-war-rages-personal-firearm-activists-see-surge-in-interest/#:~:text=In%20Israel%2C%20the%20usual%20personal,b ackground%20check%2C%20among%20other%20things.

I know it's not an immediate problem, but with the huge influx of illegals (millions), we will be dealing with the cartel and a corrupt local govt soon, I'm damn glad I don't just have a golf club to fight back with.

I'm thinking they might get their own 2nd amendment now in Israel. I thought they were like Switzerland with all the reservists having their firearms at home, but I guess not. Ha, since 2007 the Swiss get to keep their rifles at home, but no ammunition. :har:

I do like the sound of Israeli building codes now requiring a panic room in each house. We could use a panic/tornado/hurricane room in our building codes.

[Ostfriese]

Ha, since 2007 the Swiss get to keep their rifles at home, but no ammunition.


That's not correct.

[em2nought]

That's not correct.

Looks like it's partly correct. They don't have a box of gov't provided ammo at home anymore, but they can buy their own?
https://www.arizonarifleman.com/2015/10/16/question-of-the-day-can-the-swiss-keep-ammo-at-home/

[Ostfriese]

If you want ammo at home in Switzerland you have to buy it yourself, there's usually no restriction as long as you are a Swiss citizen and have a clean record, and you must own a weapon that actually fires the ammunition you want to purchase.
There are some restrictions for foreigners depending on where they are from (for example, Serbs, Bosnians, Kosovans, Macedonians, Turks, Sri Lankans, Algerians and Albanians are explicitly forbidden from owning, storing, carrying and/or buying any weapon or ammo).



During military exercises Swiss soldiers and milita people receive ammo for their weapons, but must return any unspent ammo after the exercise.



At shooting ranges you can buy ammo at reduced prices, and you can take unfired ammo home with you if you are at least 18 years old. However, you cannot buy large amounts there, so "unfired ammo" usually means a few rounds.



Of the Swiss gunowners I know there's none who does not have a small amount of ammo at home.

[Jeff-Groves]

Would not have mattered if they were allowed to own Guns.
The Event was declared a GUN FREE ZONE!
Obviously Hamas didn't follow the rule!
They actually KNEW that and made it a Target on just that fact!

[Jimbuna]

Would not have mattered if they were allowed to own Guns.
The Event was declared a GUN FREE ZONE!
Obviously Hamas didn't follow the rule!
They actually KNEW that and made it a Target on just that fact!

So now Hamas are the target and rightly so.

[Jeff-Groves]

So now Hamas are the target and rightly so.

Right. You think if they had said "Bring Guns just incase."
Hamas would have targeted that area?
I fooking doubt it!
Cowards will not attack a target that can fight back.
Then the Cowards run back to Gaza and hide behind the skirts of their Mothers.
Who probably knew what was going to happen!
Hand them ALL the 72 Virgins they want.

[Jimbuna]

Right. You think if they had said "Bring Guns just incase."
Hamas would have targeted that area?
I fooking doubt it!
Cowards will not attack a target that can fight back.
Then the Cowards run back to Gaza and hide behind the skirts of their Mothers.
Who probably knew what was going to happen!
Hand them ALL the 72 Virgins they want.

I'm all for that :salute:

[Jeff-Groves]

Can you imagine the looks on the Mothers faces when they find out one of the 72 Virgins is their Son?
:har:

[Jimbuna]

Or the look on sons faces when they find out one of the virgins is their Mother :03:

[mapuc]

Can you imagine the looks on the Mothers faces when they find out one of the 72 Virgins is their Son?
:har:

In a documentary I once saw about Islam and it's history a Islamic scholar said that the Arabic word for Virgin could also mean grapes.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Imagine the looks on faces when they get 72 grapes!
WTF is this?
:o

[Commander Wallace]

Armed robber shot in face by armed victim in Texas just days after permitless carry begins

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiRGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmZveG5ld3MuY29tL3VzL2FybWVkLX JvYmJlci1zaG90LWZhY2UtYXJtZWQtdmljdGltLXRleGFz0gFI aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZm94bmV3cy5jb20vdXMvYXJtZWQtcm9iYm VyLXNob3QtZmFjZS1hcm1lZC12aWN0aW0tdGV4YXMuYW1w?hl= en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Additionally, no charges are expected to be brought against the victim, as he was defending himself.

"He’s being extremely cooperative. He has no criminal history whatsoever," Willkens said of the victim.


Another happy ending, brought to you, courtesy of the 2nd Amendment. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[Onkel Neal]

I stopped at the store to get a drink and as I was pulling up, I noticed these 2 troopers watching a woman who was smoking while pumping her gas. I saw her and thought, is this lady stupid, crazy, or both, especially with the police standing RIGHT there! But anyways, I minded my own business and went inside and got my drink.

As I was paying for my drink, I heard someone screaming!! Like I’m talkin' violent death screams! I looked outside and I saw that this woman's arm was on fire!! She was swinging her arm, running around going nuts!! :k_confused:

When I got outside, the police had the woman on the ground and they were putting the fire out!!
Then they put handcuffs on her and threw her in the squad car.. I was thinking, arrested?
Shouldn’t she be in an ambulance, not a squad car?? And being nosy as I am, I asked the police what they were arresting her for...
He looked at me, dead serious, and said, "waving a fire arm around”!!


.
.
.
.

[em2nought]

Shouldn’t she be in an ambulance, not a squad car?? And being nosy as I am, I asked the police what they were arresting her for...
He looked at me, dead serious, and said, "waving a fire arm around”!!


Literally LOLing :har:

[Aktungbby]

He looked at me, dead serious, and said, "waving a fire arm around”!!
What a relief!:yeah: :haha:I thought I was the only one over-indulging in puns, plays-on-words and double-entendre... :shucks::yep::arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

Shouldn’t she be in an ambulance, not a squad car?? And being nosy as I am, I asked the police what they were arresting her for...
He looked at me, dead serious, and said, "waving a fire arm around”!!


.
.
.
.

Don't ever give up your day job Neal :)

[Commander Wallace]

Or the look on sons faces when they find out one of the virgins is their Mother :03:


I was thinking when the virgins mentioned all turned out to be guys. :haha:
Or perhaps a 72 year old virgin. It's all in the details. :haha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB2KQHJRoP0