SAS man 'pressured' into guilty plea

[Jimbuna]

An SAS sniper who was jailed for possessing a pistol faced "undue pressure" from his own barrister to plead guilty, the Appeal Court heard.


Some here should remember this case but either way I wouldn't advise hiring his first counsel if your ever in need of one :03:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21770906

[August]

Lousy way to treat those who have risked life and limb for their country.

[Bilge_Rat]

Its hard to judge without knowing all the facts. A lawyer will look at all the evidence and advise his client based on what he thinks is in the client's best interest. That may be fighting it out in court or it may be advising the client to plead guilty to a lesser offence.

I dont know Ian Winter personally, but he has a good reputation in the UK.

I think the issue here has more to do with the sentence. Based on the facts, a guilty verdict was forgone, however, his lawyer should have made representations at the sentence hearing on any extenuating cirsumstances. 18 months is unusually harsh.

[Tribesman]

Since he was clearly guilty the lawyer was right to advise his client to enter a guilty plea.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I'm not so worried about the pistol, it's the 338 rounds of ammunition.

And I'm all for HM's finest bring back the odd little toy, but someone who is having mental difficulties probably shouldn't get one for xmas.

[Bilge_Rat]

Agreed. from the original story back in november:



Sgt Nightingale's lawyers are appealing against the military detention sentence given to him after West Mercia Police found the pistol in his Hereford accommodation.

The case was then referred to the military police and he pleaded guilty at the court martial.

The transcripts showed that Sgt Nightingale had 122 live rounds of 9mm ammunition, 40 live rounds of 7.62 ammunition, 50 frangible rounds of 9mm ammunition, 50 live rounds of armour piecing ammunition, two live rounds of .308 ammunition and 74 live rounds of 5.56 ammunition in "a plastic box under the bed".

The pistol was found found in a wardrobe in a black case, according to the transcripts.

His lawyers and family said the 9mm Glock pistol, which was given to him as a gift by Iraqi soldiers he had been helping to train in 2009, was packed by colleagues for him after he had to leave Iraq quickly to help organise the funerals of two colleagues.

They said he later suffered brain damage during the year in which he had to wait to have his belongings returned and was unable to remember that the pistol was still among them.

They said he pleaded guilty to the charge after being warned by the judge in the case he could face five years' detention if found guilty in a trial.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-20323762

Again, not saying the sentence is correct. I am not familiar with the law he was charged under.

[Singed]

I'm not so worried about the pistol, it's the 338 rounds of ammunition.

And I'm all for HM's finest bring back the odd little toy, but someone who is having mental difficulties probably shouldn't get one for xmas.

338 rounds of ammo distributed between several calibers isn't really all that much. I've gone through 150 rounds of .40 on a good range day. Of course with ammo prices now, that will not happen again anytime soon.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I've gone through 150 rounds of .40 on a good range day.

At a guess, you're not in the UK.

And I didn't realise until recently that it was spread across calibres, although the hefty chunk of it is 9mm.

[Tribesman]

And I'm all for HM's finest bring back the odd little toy, but someone who is having mental difficulties probably shouldn't get one for xmas.
There's the rub, his defence implies that he shouldn't have licenced firearms, let alone be in possesion of unlicenced ones.

[Singed]

At a guess, you're not in the UK.

And I didn't realise until recently that it was spread across calibres, although the hefty chunk of it is 9mm.

LOL, at the risk of reinforcing stereotypes, I'm in Texas.

[Herr-Berbunch]

LOL, at the risk of reinforcing stereotypes, I'm in Texas.

Yee Haa! :haha:

[Bilge_Rat]

wow, the UK sure has very tough gun control laws. Under section 1 of the "Firearms Act, 1968", possession of a firearm and/or ammunition without a valid certificate is a criminal offence, either one of which is passible to emprisonment for up to 7 years. sentences ranging from 2 to 5 years are common:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_1_firearms_act/

Nightingale might have had an argument on the pistol. If he could raise a reasonable doubt that he did not know he had it, he might technically have been held not to have been in "possesion" in contravention to the act.

..but what about the ammo? Did'nt he wonder what was in the big plastic box under his bed?

[Tribesman]

wow, the UK sure has very tough gun control laws. Under section 1 of the "Firearms Act, 1968", possession of a firearm and/or ammunition without a valid certificate is a criminal offence, either one of which is passible to emprisonment for up to 7 years. sentences ranging from 2 to 5 years are common
Yes, and the deal his lawyer and the judge convinced him to take was to avoid the section 5 he should have faced as that carries a mandatory 5 year term.
It would be funny if his retrial convicts him of that crime instead of taking his earlier plea bargain on the lesser charge.

[Jimbuna]

Well the conviction has now been quashed and a retrial will take place but more details have been released...


An SAS sniper who was jailed for illegal weapon possession said he was "elated" tonight after his conviction was quashed because a military judge improperly pressured him into pleading guilty.



The soldier's appeal centred on remarks - delivered in legal terminology and references to a previous case - made by the military judge during legal argument ahead of a trial that had been due to take place last November.

William Clegg QC, for Nightingale, said: "On the proper analysis, what the assistant judge advocate was saying here was 'unless you plead guilty, you will receive a sentence of five years'.

"This is a message that should never have come from the bench."



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9927684/Former-SAS-sniper-Danny-Nightingale-elated-as-court-quashes-weapon-conviction.html

[Tribesman]

"This is a message that should never have come from the bench."

Thats true, the military judge was wrong, he should never have tried to be kind to the accused, he should have just dealt with the facts from a neutral standpoint.
It should only have been his lawyer telling him he was buggered if he didn't cop a plea.

A nice case to illustrate the lunacy of mandatory sentencing isn't it.

[TFatseas]

338 rounds of ammo distributed between several calibers isn't really all that much. I've gone through 150 rounds of .40 on a good range day. Of course with ammo prices now, that will not happen again anytime soon.

Shoot, I've bought 1000+ rounds of some calibers at a time before.

When it's cheap stack it deep!

Too bad lots of the cheap surplus is drying up.:shifty:

[Singed]

When i was growing up, we used to reload rather large batches so having a couple thousand rounds at the house, particularly 9mm .45 or .223 was not unusual. Not to mention buckets of brass and then all the powder, primers and bullets.

Not survivalists, or "preppers" or anything like that, hand loading then shooting was a hobby that I started learning as a small child.

[Platapus]

Does the UK have their own version of the US "Alford Plea"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alford_plea

[Jimbuna]

None that I am aware of :hmm2:

[Herr-Berbunch]

That's just so :doh:

I'm glad I'm not a lawyer.

But don't tell my clients. :03:

[Tribesman]

Retrial done. Guilty again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23255890
He certainly changes his story a lot.

[Jimbuna]

Must have cost his family a few bob paying the legal fees.

[Wolferz]

Prime example for our British cousins as to why we fight tooth and nail for our right to bear arms here in the states.

[Tribesman]

Prime example for our British cousins as to why we fight tooth and nail for our right to bear arms here in the states.
You consider a brain damaged person to be a prime example for unrestricted access to firearms:doh:
Even without his medical problems do you really think a case of smuggled weapons and stolen ammunition can in any way give a positive argument for what you want?

Jimbuna
Must have cost his family a few bob paying the legal fees.
He should have listened to his lawyer and stuck with the plea deal on the 18months, his mate only got two years and that was for a far more serious offence.
The police and the army were going real light on them both considering what they could have been facing.

[donna52522]

I believe Wolferz meant that we are fighting to keep our rights to own firearms so we don't have to resort to smuggling them.

But I understand your point, a soldier caught with a firearm, my God....what kind of army are you running over there? Only well trained responsible people should be allowed to handle firearms. :sunny:

[Tribesman]

I believe Wolferz meant that we are fighting to keep our rights to own firearms so we don't have to resort to smuggling them.

And he would have a point if the only way these people could own firearms was by smuggling.

But I understand your point, a soldier caught with a firearm, my God....what kind of army are you running over there?
Nice try.
I suppose they are running the sort of army over there which does not like thieves.