Emergency hearing over Abu Qatada [Archive]

Jimbuna

03-09-13, 11:10 AM

Hopefully this piece of (insert your own word here) will have few days left in the UK. His legal aid bills have already topped half a million and heaven only knows how much he and his family have cost the British tax payer in benefit payments.

I must admit to having had a good laugh at one of his bail conditions:

Needs approval to take a job or enrol on a course

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21727209

Oberon

03-09-13, 11:34 AM

Oh great, Abu Qatada at the job center...Allah help us all! :har:

Jimbuna

03-09-13, 11:51 AM

The rent bill we are paying for his house is nearly £2000 per month :o

BossMark

03-10-13, 04:42 AM

Lets hope that useless cow of a home secretary gets it right this time with no &^&**&**% ups

Tribesman

03-10-13, 05:32 AM

Stop the circus and just do what should have been done 10 years ago.
Put the idiot on trial in your country.

eddie

03-10-13, 01:15 PM

The UK has their own nutjob to deal with, and we have ours! At least we have him in court though.

http://news.msn.com/us/bin-laden-spokesman-pleads-not-guilty-to-plot

Jimbuna

03-10-13, 01:49 PM

The UK has their own nutjob to deal with, and we have ours! At least we have him in court though.

http://news.msn.com/us/bin-laden-spokesman-pleads-not-guilty-to-plot

Nice one...if it were my decision I's deport hom and pay the EU or whoever the paltry fine that would be levied...gotta be cheaper than keeping him and his family over here on benefits.

eddie

03-10-13, 02:12 PM

Why is it so hard to deport him Jim?

Jimbuna

03-10-13, 02:17 PM

His lawyers claim the Jordanian government will use evidence gained as a result of torture to convict him.

They also claim he will be at risk of torture himself despite undertaking to the contrary from the Jordanians.

As a result the EU court of human rights overruled our own high courts decision to allow him to be extradited.

Something along those lines anyway.

eddie

03-10-13, 02:40 PM

That really stinks that a court in the EU can over rule the UK's highest court!!!:nope:

Jimbuna

03-10-13, 03:34 PM

That is precisely why a number of Brits (growing daily) are all for pulling out of the EU.

Betonov

03-10-13, 03:51 PM

Like the EU has the nerves to do anything after you flip the bird and deport him anyway.
You're the UK. Too big a dog to be on a tight leash

Jimbuna

03-10-13, 03:55 PM

Like the EU has the nerves to do anything after you flip the bird and deport him anyway.
You're the UK. Too big a dog to be on a tight leash

Thank you and yes I certainly agree....the Italians deported someone a few years back to Africa iirc and the fine was a paltry £100k or so...well worth it to get rid of a financial leech from the system.

Tribesman

03-10-13, 04:17 PM

Something along those lines anyway.
Was it along the lines of the EU court saying the British court hadn't followed British law?:hmmm:

That really stinks that a court in the EU can over rule the UK's highest court!!!:nope:
It stinks that the past two governments have made a mess of it by breaking their own laws.
If the British courts had a better track record and less of a history of dodgy political interference in cases then you would have a point about the extra layer of oversight.

STEED

03-10-13, 04:53 PM

It would have been far less wast of money if he slipped over a bar of soap into a very deep hole and promptly filled in with cement. :shifty:

Skybird

03-10-13, 06:56 PM

the EU court of human rights

- censored -

overruled

- censored -

Tribesman

03-11-13, 02:42 AM

EU
-rant-
Muslim
-rant-

Dan D

03-12-13, 03:26 AM

Mindless rant.

(copy and past from an older post):

You are confusing the European Court of Human Rights with the European Court of Justice!

WTH has the EU to do with the Abu Qatada case?

The European Court of Human Rights (Strassbourg) was established under the European Convention on Human Rights of 1950 as a consequence of WW II on initiative by Britain. The convention is adopted by the so-called Council of Europe. The Council of Europe is distinct from the EU which has 27 member states and consists of 47 member states , such as Russia, Ukraine and Turkey. Russia e.g. is not a member of the EU, right?

Some EU member states are members of the Council of Europe but not all members of the Council of Europe are EU members.

The European Court of Justice (Luxembourg City) is an EU institution.

The European Court of Justice does not deal with Criminal law cases because Criminal law belongs to the national law systems and not to the EU law system, simple as that. There is no EU criminal law.

So you could do all you want, leave the EU,arrest the EU representatives and the EU court's judges and even shoot them, this is pointless in the context of the Abu Quatada case.

The European Court of Human Rights would still be there to make decisions that are binding because your country is a member of the Council of Europe and signed the European Charta of Human Rights.

You would have to leave the Council of Europe instead! (no EU institution)
[/QUote]

EU, you don't like it. I think I understood that. But why oh why?

Takeda Shingen

03-12-13, 09:41 AM

In before yet another anarcho-capitalist rant.

Tribesman

03-12-13, 11:18 AM

EU, you don't like it. I think I understood that. But why oh why?
Why oh why indeed?:03:
This current appeal just happens to be the British government going to British courts to try and overturn a decision which was made in British courts by British judges in accordance with British law.
At this stage it not only has nothing to do with the EU, it has nothing to do with the European court of human rights either.

Jimbuna

03-12-13, 11:36 AM

Abu Qatada deportation ban can be lifted, judges told:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21732958

Last year judges ruled he could not be sent to Jordan for a retrial over alleged involvement in terrorism plots.

Largely based on....you guessed it:

That ruling followed an earlier decision by the European Court of Human Rights that said that the only outstanding issue stopping the preacher’s removal from the UK was an assurance from Jordan on that issue.

The Judgement:

http://www.bailii.org/images/logos/echr_head.png

CASE OF OTHMAN (ABU QATADA) v. THE UNITED KINGDOM

http://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2012/56.html

Hopefully the light at the end of the tunnel is in sight and the UK can be rid of this individual.

It bothers me not one jot what his eventual outcome will be but he has bled the British system for far too long now.

Anyone like to offer him a safe haven then?

03-12-13, 11:49 AM

I would send him to have a good German beer with Skaybird:haha:.

Tribesman

03-12-13, 12:12 PM

Abu Qatada deportation ban can be lifted, judges told:

"Told" by the lawyers appealing against the judges decision.

He said Jordanian law bans the use of torture and reliance on statements extracted under duress.
Is that the same James Eadie QC who yesterday agreed the use of torture in Jordan was "endemic and systematic" throughout the state justice system?:hmmm:

Hottentot

03-12-13, 12:20 PM

In before yet another anarcho-capitalist rant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJBg74WYa-0

Jimbuna

03-12-13, 12:27 PM

Look I really think it is quite simple...the British government are trying their best to rid the country and British taxpayers of this disgraceful individual who has nothing but contempt for the very country he is leeching from and in so doing has preached anti British rhetoric to anyone prepared to listen.

He is considered an undesireable and whilst not being a supporter or follower of the present government I do admit to admiring the way they are keeping within the parameters of the British judicial system, possibly a lot more than some other countries would I suspect.

At this stage it not only has nothing to do with the EU, it has nothing to do with the European court of human rights either.

Despite your comments above it is a fact the EU and the court of human rights are directly involved in the position Britain currently finds itself in.

The links are up there for anyone to read up on and without said interference I'm of the personal opinion said individual would no longer be in receipt of or the cause of copious amounts of expenditure of British taxpayers money and would have been away from our shores a long time ago.

eddie

03-12-13, 02:45 PM

Maybe you could get a 2 for the price of one deals Jim, send him and Assange to Jordan at the same time!

Tribesman

03-12-13, 03:32 PM

Despite your comments above it is a fact the EU and the court of human rights are directly involved in the position Britain currently finds itself in.

Like I said "at this stage", it has nothing at all to do with the EU.
And at other stages the european court which is not the EU becomes involved.
The center of the problem is British law and silly attempts the past two governments have made to circumvent British law.

You could always change the British laws, but ask yourself this.
Do you really want to change at a fundamental level your laws because of one relatively insignificant dickhead from palestine?

I'm of the personal opinion said individual would no longer be in receipt of or the cause of copious amounts of expenditure of British taxpayers money and would have been away from our shores a long time ago.
Double edged, if his assets were not frozen by the state he would be above the threshold for benefit payments and he wouldn't be getting the same legal aid.

The simple solution is to put him on trial and convict him of the crimes he has committed in Britain, then if he is still alive after his prison term deport him on release.

Jimbuna

03-12-13, 04:14 PM

Maybe you could get a 2 for the price of one deals Jim, send him and Assange to Jordan at the same time!

Don't build my hopes up :)

Jimbuna

03-12-13, 04:24 PM

Like I said "at this stage", it has nothing at all to do with the EU.
And at other stages the european court which is not the EU becomes involved.
The center of the problem is British law and silly attempts the past two governments have made to circumvent British law.

You could always change the British laws, but ask yourself this.
Do you really want to change at a fundamental level your laws because of one relatively insignificant dickhead from palestine?

Double edged, if his assets were not frozen by the state he would be above the threshold for benefit payments and he wouldn't be getting the same legal aid.

The simple solution is to put him on trial and convict him of the crimes he has committed in Britain, then if he is still alive after his prison term deport him on release.

Whichever and either way....stop the interference from the EU (and God only knows what your problem is in failing to accept/recognise a link to a legal judgement which I have evidenced to have had a serious bearing on the current legal position) and get the bugga off British sovereign territory.

Or as I said earlier...give the bugga sanctuary in your country....simple as.

Tribesman

03-12-13, 06:06 PM

Whichever and either way....stop the interference from the EU (and God only knows what your problem is in failing to accept/recognise a link to a legal judgement which I have evidenced to have had a serious bearing on the current legal position)
Your evidence is to the council not the EU as Dan already pointed out. The ruling from that court relates to British law and British courts.

Or as I said earlier...give the bugga sanctuary in your country....simple as.
Its your mess, your government made it, don't try and palm it off on other countries.
Come to think of it Jordan just happens to be a mess your country created too.:03:

BTW as you seem concerned as to the cost this is putting on the British taxpayer which you put as half a million+.
As a matter of comparison, in the 10 years this farce has been running how many millions of your tax payers money(not including legal costs and fees) has your government paid out in compensation to people it deported to dodgy regimes.
If you want you can add the compensation from those cases where the British state was the one doing the torturing.
I can understand your anger at the costs Qatada is running up, but you must agree they are really a drop in the ocean if you look at the bigger picture

Skybird

03-27-13, 09:31 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21955844

I don't believe this. I just don't believe this.

They laugh in our faces while we make total idiots of ourselves.

Tribesman

03-27-13, 10:46 AM

I don't believe this. I just don't believe this.

Why?
How could the ruling be any different?

They laugh in our faces while we make total idiots of ourselves.
You would make a total idiot of yourself by changing the law to allow torture in legal cases.

Jimbuna

03-27-13, 12:15 PM

Stick him on a plane to Jordan and pay the paltry financial penalty the EU would impose.

Tribesman

03-27-13, 03:20 PM

Stick him on a plane to Jordan and pay the paltry financial penalty the EU would impose.
Remind me again how many millions your British court ordered your British government to pay people it stuck on planes breaking British law.
Forget the EU, its the British system.
If you want to "cure" the problem you must remove the independance of the British judiciary and allow for British law to be broken at will by politicians on whatever whim they have on any particular day.
Not a very nice "cure" is it.

Oberon

03-27-13, 03:34 PM

Tribesman has a point, the EU human rights laws may make it damn difficult to deport this man who we have no want or money to keep, but if we withdrew from it, as the Tories want to, I don't like the idea of a Conservative government deciding what human rights are all about.
The law is the law, even if it is an ass, it's still the law.

I wonder how much this process is costing in legal fees though, compared to how much it would cost to keep him under lock and key here... :hmmm:

Tribesman

03-27-13, 03:44 PM

You miss the main point Oberon, its British law which prevents the deportation.
May is going to appeal again, she has failed to convince 4 british judges that she is following british law, her next step is to try and convince 7 british judges that she is not breaking british law.
I cannot see her winning that arguement unless the jordanian government comes up with a whole new case and a whole new set of evidence...or she changes british law.

You do hit a good point though it would have been far cheaper to throw him in jail upon conviction for the crimes he is alledged to have committed in Britain, and most people seem to agree that the evidence of his guilt there is overwhelming

Jimbuna

03-27-13, 05:55 PM

Stick a fork in him, he's done........hopefully.

Oberon

03-27-13, 06:28 PM

Skybird

03-27-13, 06:49 PM

The law is the law, even if it is an ass, it's still the law.

No Oberon, when the law rides up and down through the instances for years and years and years and years and then starts again, then this is not the rule of any law worth that name - it is a caricature of a law, and the only message it sends is: the law means nothing, since there is always the next instance to oppose the instance before. And so it goes on and on and on. That way, the law makes a fool of itself. Needless to say: it looses in trustworthiness as well.

If the bastard at least would be forced to work, so that the fruits of his labour would be sold and used to pay for the costs he is causing to the community. But not even this. No, the community has to pay for this farce in full.

( I think prison inmates also should be forced to work to produce an income by which they pay for their food, clothing, healthcare and accomodation. It is an absurdity that the community has to pay for the imprisoning of criminals to protect itself from them. )

This case is a great encouragement for bastards coming after this hate-dripping parasite to try to abuse the system like he did. And we will again allow that to happen.

If there is one thing I have learned over the past two or three years, then it is to what degree the very roots of your social systems and states and to what degree the very rules and laws we play by must be put in question. And when one climbs onto the top of that heap of rotting civilization, and looks down to the ground where reality has been left behind, then one must take care not to immediately get befallen by dizziness, that high that heap already is.

Tribesman

03-27-13, 07:52 PM

It's all trying to score bonus points with the joe public anyway. That's the primary reason they're going to all this trouble to try and get rid of him, to score points for the election.
Oberon.
The irony is that the impasse they have landed themselves in is a direct result of them trying to score bonus points with joe public.
The sticking point is a change in British law which was intended to stop lengthy appeals against granted deportations.
Unfortunately in this case it backfired as the mechanism to stop refugees overturning a courts decision also means that unless the government can show the judges erred in applying British law in the original hearing they are unable to overturn the courts decision.
Pandering to joe publics calls of kick the immigrants out has left them with a copperfastened case of not being able to kick an immigrant out.

If there is one thing I have learned over the past two or three years, then it is to what degree the very roots of your social systems and states and to what degree the very rules and laws we play by must be put in question. And when one climbs onto the top of that heap of rotting civilization, and looks down to the ground where reality has been left behind, then one must take care not to immediately get befallen by dizziness, that high that heap already is.
Is that a sermon by Abu Hamza Sky just quoted?:rotfl2:

BossMark

03-28-13, 06:54 AM

Stick him on a plane to Jordan and pay the paltry financial penalty the EU would impose.
Just throw him in a cell and chuck away the key and then let nature take course. And let the horrid bastard starve to death.

BossMark

04-24-13, 01:51 PM

I keep reading how much money the country is wasting on failed deportation attempts for the radical Muslim cleric Abu Qatada.

Would it not be more satisfying and cheaper just to kick him in the balls?

eddie

04-24-13, 02:14 PM

Tribesman

04-24-13, 02:52 PM

I keep reading how much money the country is wasting on failed deportation attempts for the radical Muslim cleric Abu Qatada.

And more money again.:nope:
So it failed again as expected, and now they want to change their law under an article which clearly specifies it does not apply in this case, so thats another waste of money.
Or make a new law in 2 years...which won't work either.
Or get a new "promise" from Jordan which the courts have already said won't be worth the paper it is written on.
Brainless muppets. Deport May instead.

BossMark

04-24-13, 03:00 PM

Brainless muppets. Deport May instead.
Best idea I have heard on this subject :yep:

Dan D

04-24-13, 04:08 PM

No EU involved, no matter what the rampant anti-EU press in Britain claims:

http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-108629#{"itemid":["001-108629"]}

“The European Court of Human Rights” =http://www.echr.coe.int/ECHR/EN/Header/The+Court/Introduction/Information+documents/

In English: http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyres/DF074FE4-96C2-4384-BFF6-404AAF5BC585/0/Court_in_brief_ENG.pdf:

„not to be confused with the European Court of Justice” = EU body

If you think that Britain will leave the European Convention On Human Rights, this will never going to happen.

Russia for example, will be facing a trial to the European Court of Human Rights because of the “Pussy Riot” girls case. Even Russia won’t be leaving the European Convention On Human Rights because of that.

Jimbuna

04-24-13, 04:24 PM

So on it goes.

Dan D

04-27-13, 10:51 AM

So on it goes.

@Jimbuna
I can certainly understand your frustration about the failure to deport that thug.
If I sounded rude, I apologise.

Anyway, new game new luck:
24 April 2013
"UK agrees assistance treaty with Jordan"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22275000

Jimbuna

04-27-13, 12:14 PM

@Jimbuna
I can certainly understand your frustration about the failure to deport that thug.
If I sounded rude, I apologise.

Anyway, new game new luck:
24 April 2013
"UK agrees assistance treaty with Jordan"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22275000

Nothing to apologise for matey :up:

STEED

04-27-13, 04:16 PM

That scumbag has laughed all his socks off and has gone shopping for more so he can laugh off his new socks.

STEED

04-27-13, 04:18 PM

Would it not be more satisfying and cheaper just to kick him in the balls?

Better idea, kick the bloody Judges in the balls to see if they have any.

Tribesman

04-27-13, 06:30 PM

Better idea, kick the bloody Judges in the balls to see if they have any.
it is not the judges who are lacking balls, they have the balls to stand up for the law of the land and central tenets of your legal system despite political interference.
It is the politicians that lack the balls and the brains.

Anyway, new game new luck:

Same game, same luck.
Though it does bring a new problem. The governments prosecution has conceded in court that torture is endemic and systematic through every level of the jordanian legal system.
There may be a slim chance that they can convince judges that the piece of paper they get is not completely worthless and future Jordanian proceedings will be legit.
But unfortunately once they do that they they face the problem that the entire legal basis for the deportation stems from evidence already submitted by Jordan. That evidence consists of two confessions obtained under torture which implicate qatada, under the new terms May is setting that cannot now be used so Jordan no longer has any legal grounds to request the extradition at all.
Which means the whole 10 year circus will go back round to the start again.

BossMark

04-28-13, 02:07 AM

Better idea, kick the bloody Judges in the balls to see if they have any.
Yes and deport them as well along with that useless ugly bitch home secretary Theresa bloody May :yep:

Synthfg

04-28-13, 03:34 AM

Yes and deport them as well along with that useless ugly bitch home secretary Theresa bloody May :yep:

Only if you include every Labour incumbent of the Job bar Straw

So Blunket
Clarke
Reid
Smith
Johnston

All have been frustrated by the courts in attempts to boot this ******* out of the country

But you conveniently forgot that

TBH I'm lost as to why we don't just rescind this guys UK passport and buy him a ticket to any country he can find that will take him

BossMark

04-28-13, 03:42 AM

@Synthfg no I didn't forget that
Lets not forget the government which allowed it to stay in our country back in 1994....................... yes it was the Tories under John Major and Michael Howard.

Tribesman

04-28-13, 04:54 AM

TBH I'm lost as to why we don't just rescind this guys UK passport
UK passport? I thought he got residency not citizenship.

and buy him a ticket to any country he can find that will take him

Well two things there.
He is under UN embargo so is banned from international travel which means a ticket to anywhere is automaticly invalid.
Plus of course who on earth would want him, you saw the problem America had with getting rid of some people from Gitmo. They labelled them the worst of the worst dangerous terrorists in the world then had to pay "sweetners" to countries taking them with assurances that they were the wrong people and were not really dangerous at all.
Britain, Europe and the UN all label qatada as dangerous so who on earth would take him even with a big bribe?