CO2 bug

[TorpX]

I'm putting this poll up to find out how many people have difficulty with the "CO2 bug".

For those who have never heard of it, or experienced it, it involves having your sub's CO2 levels rise even after you have surfaced. It is commonly associated with Alt-Tabbing out of the game, but is somewhat mysterious, in that not everyone is subject to it.

I would like to know how many people avoid using SH4 utilities for this reason. Any theories as to what is at the bottom of it, or how to avoid it, are welcome.

TorpX

[pabbi]

actually i'm playing 1.4 so co2 bug dos not apply to me.:D

[BigWalleye]

Your poll doesn't cover all aspects of the problem.

I never Alt-Tab out of the game, always fully exiting, yet the Co2 bug has occurred to me when playing.

REALLY? Well, there goes another theory down the drain! I thought we had reverse-engineered the cause of this bug and had a bug-proof work-around. Thud!

Fortunately. there IS a widely-reported recovery: Save the game with the CO2 problem. Exit to desktop. Then restart and load the save. Should be all clear. I've heard this is a sure fix. Has anyone ever found it to fail?

[CapnScurvy]

Your poll doesn't cover all aspects of the problem.

I never Alt-Tab out of the game, always fully exiting, yet the Co2 bug has occasionally occurred to me when playing.

I would like to know how many people avoid using SH4 utilities for this reason.

If you're referring to the games "utilities" as being the Alt-Tab keystrokes? Where's the game utilities stating "Alt-Tab" is a part of its keyboard setup? The game doesn't reference the Alt-Tab feature as something to do (even though Windows offers it as a way of exiting a program). Alt-Tab is an offered "Windows" capability, not a game feature. It's just that some folks have picked up on doing it when the program is running.

As far as using it and for some saying its the reason for the Co2 bug........it's like the guy that goes to the doctor complaining about his arm hurting when he raises it over his head. The doctor told him "If your arm hurts when you do dat...........don't do dat!!"

To deal with the bug when you get it......... save your game, exit back to Windows (the proper way), restart the saved game point when reloading the game. Seems the bug is gone.

===================
(Sorry BigWalleye, I deleted my message after your post. It's like you've got ESP on what I was about to say!!)

[fireftr18]

I've gotten it on occasion. Been so long, I don't remember the circumstances. It's an easy fix so it doesn't bother me.

[Armistead]

I only get it when Alt/Tab out of game. Another issue I sometimes get when doing this is silent running doesn't work. As stated saving and restarting corrects it.

[Webster]

never heard a good idea to what the "bug" is or how to cure it but a save and reload fixes it

it seams the game loses contact with sensing if the crew is on deck, co2 level, or even with some sounds that get stuck in a repeat loop

after years of playing i have never alt+tab and have never had this problem, i use windows key or esc key to pause and exit the game and never seen the issue myself

[TorpX]

Your poll doesn't cover all aspects of the problem.

I never Alt-Tab out of the game, always fully exiting, yet the Co2 bug has occasionally occurred to me when playing.

Sorry, I didn't know anyone got it this way. Anyway, that's why I invited people to comment about their experiences. Maybe, just maybe, a fix will become evident.

[razark]

I alt-tab out sometimes, and don't have problems.

I go to the command room, in 1x time compression, and alt-tab. No issues. If I alt-tab from somewhere else in the game (or some other program steals focus and forces itself in my way), I get the problem with crew on deck under water. I've never had the CO2 bug.

[fastfed]

The fix is so super easy..


I alt-tab ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!

And it happens 1 out of 10 times I do it.. Or close to it.

When I notice it happens.. I just save right then and there and load the saved game before I even leave the pause screen..

takes 8 seconds total.

no big deal,

[Armistead]

In all my time playing CO2 has never been an issue. I can't recall the timer, but I know I've stayed under 24 plus hours before I got the 10% warning. I have my contact times very long, most escorts elite and a strong AI, seems the most they held me down was about 8 hours. I think most fleetboats could stay submerged 36-50 hours if needed. Except for realism, it's really a mute issue. The fix, was disable it in settings if you need to tab out a lot for whatever issue.

[Scottb8411]

I set my display in "windowed mode" and am able to Alt-Tab without suffering from the CO2 bug. I actually discovered this by accident after purchasing a wide screen monitor and choose to play in 1680 x 1050 to avoid the stretched screen look.

Before changing to windowed mode I used to suffer the CO2 bug quite often...

[CapnScurvy]

In all my time playing CO2 has never been an issue. I can't recall the timer, but I know I've stayed under 24 plus hours before I got the 10% warning. I have my contact times very long, most escorts elite and a strong AI, seems the most they held me down was about 8 hours. I think most fleetboats could stay submerged 36-50 hours if needed. Except for realism, it's really a mute issue. The fix, was disable it in settings if you need to tab out a lot for whatever issue.

The issue of the Co2 bug doesn't have anything to do with how long you may be submerged. Co2 developes with just a small amount of time being submerged. With the bug, no matter what you do, the Co2 keeps increasing until the death screen appears. You can surface with just a small amount of Co2 showing on the indicator, but you know you've got the bug when the Co2 keeps increasing. After playing this game for years it's only happened to me once. But, it occurred for no apparent reason, and having nothing to do with using the Alt-Tab keystrokes. I was submerged with no other ships present, but on surfacing the Co2 level kept increasing.

Besides Armistead, I thought you posted??:

I only get it when Alt/Tab out of game.

[HertogJan]

...:hmmm:

Never had that bug... :yeah:

[Armistead]

The issue of the Co2 bug doesn't have anything to do with how long you may be submerged. Co2 developes with just a small amount of time being submerged. With the bug, no matter what you do, the Co2 keeps increasing until the death screen appears. You can surface with just a small amount of Co2 showing on the indicator, but you know you've got the bug when the Co2 keeps increasing. After playing this game for years it's only happened to me once. But, it occurred for no apparent reason, and having nothing to do with using the Alt-Tab keystrokes. I was submerged with no other ships present, but on surfacing the Co2 level kept increasing.

Besides Armistead, I thought you posted??:

Not sure what you mean, CO2 developes in a sub the longer you stay down, but I know you know this. Historically, the longer you stay under, the more it builds up, so not sure what you mean. I know what the bug is, what I'm simply saying is without the bug I've never come close to being held down to where CO2 reached even 50%. It's really a mute issue in the game. Obvious if you get the bug, doesn't matter if you're surfaced or submerged. I think in game it's set for 48 hours. I simply said if it bothers someone and you don't care about it's function, disable it and you won't have to worry about it. Not like you're gonna be held down 48 hours in the game.

If I'm working on my PC and playing the game and need to tab out a lot, I disable it, if not, I leave it on, but thanks for keeping up with my post...:-?

[TorpX]

I set my display in "windowed mode" and am able to Alt-Tab without suffering from the CO2 bug. I actually discovered this by accident after purchasing a wide screen monitor and choose to play in 1680 x 1050 to avoid the stretched screen look.

Before changing to windowed mode I used to suffer the CO2 bug quite often...
This is very worthwhile. You mean you could set the game to a window size the same as you monitor, and still be freed from the CO2 problems?

[Carrollsue]

What are you guy’s talking about??? :oCarbon dioxide levels or crashing the system/game?:har:

[CapnScurvy]

Not sure what you mean, CO2 developes in a sub the longer you stay down, but I know you know this. Historically, the longer you stay under, the more it builds up, so not sure what you mean. I know what the bug is, what I'm simply saying is without the bug I've never come close to being held down to where CO2 reached even 50%. It's really a mute issue in the game. Obvious if you get the bug, doesn't matter if you're surfaced or submerged. I think in game it's set for 48 hours. I simply said if it bothers someone and you don't care about it's function, disable it and you won't have to worry about it.

If you read my post I'm not talking about the normal function of the Co2 aspect in-game.
The issue of the Co2 bug doesn't have anything to do with how long you may be submerged.
Thanks for passing on the info about how the normal function of the games Co2 buildup works. However, that's not what this threads about. The problem exists for many players of the game. Even if it's only occurred once, it's still a bug no matter how you feel about its insignificance, or the ease in fixing it. I prefer to use the "save game" to save a game for future play, not to "save" my crew from a bug that brings the grim reaper.

[Armistead]

Capn, you're making something simple complex. My first post simply stated the that the normal CO aspect of the game (not the bug} has never been an issue as far as running out of air submerged fighting escorts, etc. It has no function that really effects your game play, so if you can live without the realism factor and you need to tab out a lot which causes the bug, rather than constant saving and reloading, just disable it.

Course one thing I've never done is check to see if the timer is different for all boats, but I suspect it is.

[Carrollsue]

Yep, her it is: http://http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/15045/co2-a-great-game-or-just-a-load-of-hot-air:har: (http://http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/15045/co2-a-great-game-or-just-a-load-of-hot-air)

[Moonlight]

This is the correct link for the above post.:)
http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/15045/co2-a-great-game-or-just-a-load-of-hot-air

[Bilge_Rat]

I have never had the CO2 bug, although I alt+tab occasionally.

It might have something to do with the way I play. I save often, play at low TC, usually never more than 256x. Rarely play more than 1-2 hours at one sitting and rarely play more than 1-2 days of game time at one sitting.

[TorpX]

Personally, I am somewhat dismayed by the fact that only 16 have voted in the poll (and many said they didn't know). Maybe I should have asked if anybody still plays this game anymore. :06:

[Roger Dodger]

Personally, I am somewhat dismayed by the fact that only 16 have voted in the poll (and many said they didn't know). Maybe I should have asked if anybody still plays this game anymore. :06:


Sorry I didn't vote, but just found this topic today (4/19). I don't normally search the topic menu, and I'm only subscribed to the TMO and the RSRDC topics. I also just got a notice about the Flying Dutchman thread, which I am also subscribed to. I haven't seen any activity on TMO or RSRDC for several weeks now, so I'm assuming that fewer folks are still playing. Not surprising for a game this old.

OK, my vote is: I NEVER use Alt-Tab, but I DO experience the CO2 bug on occasion. Save/Exit/Re-load works.

I have noticed that since I installed TMO 2.5 that the CO2 buildup is MUCH faster - my crew is starting to hallucinate or faint after only about 8 hours (somewhere around noon if I submerge at dawn). I suppose I could remain submerged until dusk, but I usually go to Periscope Depth, raise the SD antenna, and if all clear, surface for a 'quickie' just to reset the CO2 meter, then submerge to 125' for the remainder of the day (subject to acquiring a target on SONAR).

[merc4ulfate]

I do not use Alt Tab to exit the game and reenter at points.

Yes it may be the same but I hit the windows key on the keyboard and then simply open the program I want opened which is normally GIMP if I leave the game during play.

I like to save screen shots to GIMP and prefer using the PrtScn over the in game SS shortcut.

While I can only recall having the CO2 bug maybe twice ever I have used the keyboard windows key, at times, extremely often without incident.

I can remember times where I may have spent an hour going back and forth.

If anything happens for me it will be a few graphic anomalies such as dark spots on the horizon and the like and then I restart and all is well.

[TorpX]

I have noticed that since I installed TMO 2.5 that the CO2 buildup is MUCH faster - my crew is starting to hallucinate or faint after only about 8 hours
This is interesting. I wasn't aware any mods made the CO2 buildup faster. How high does it get in 8 hrs.?

[Roger Dodger]

This is interesting. I wasn't aware any mods made the CO2 buildup faster. How high does it get in 8 hrs.?


Seems like around 25%, but I'm going to have to play again and chart it for better accuracy. Maybe I'm the one hallucinating :haha: I'll get back to you later.

[Armistead]

This is interesting. I wasn't aware any mods made the CO2 buildup faster. How high does it get in 8 hrs.?


Can't remember the exact hours, but with TMO, I can about 30-40 hours before I must come up.

[merc4ulfate]

It just occurred on me last night after I have use a keyboard shortcut to get to the desk top. I laughed at myself for saying it didn't happen to me and then it did. CO2 I didn't think to rose to quickly it was just that it would not stop rising after I surfaced until I saved the game, quit and reloaded that saved game.

My issue now is that no saved games will load any longer after that first initial load. None of the saves from last night nor before it will load. It crashes the game every time I try to load saves now.

[Roger Dodger]

Can't remember the exact hours, but with TMO, I can about 30-40 hours before I must come up.

I logged the CO2 buildup last night.
0800: Dawn, dive to periscope depth, ahead 1/3.
1300: (5 hours) CO2 icon starts flashing. CO2 at 10%.
CO2 builds up 2%/hour.
2000: Dusk, surfaced, CO2 at 24%. 12 hours total time submerged. Battery at 76%.

I guess it was the flashing CO2 icon that got me spooked. CO2 becomes lethal if the percentage gets above 3%, so interpretation using a 100% scale is a might confusing. Will hydrogen gas bleeding out of the batteries also cause problems?

[Gryffon300]

I logged the CO2 buildup last night.
0800: Dawn, dive to periscope depth, ahead 1/3.
1300: (5 hours) CO2 icon starts flashing. CO2 at 10%.
CO2 builds up 2%/hour.
2000: Dusk, surfaced, CO2 at 24%. 12 hours total time submerged. Battery at 76%.

I guess it was the flashing CO2 icon that got me spooked. CO2 becomes lethal if the percentage gets above 3%, so interpretation using a 100% scale is a might confusing. Will hydrogen gas bleeding out of the batteries also cause problems?

That sounds about right. I know this conversation got a little side-tracked about how long you can stay submerged vs the refusal of the bug to acknowledge that you had actually surfaced: which is what I assume is going on - a bit like the reverse situation when my Gallant Crew insists on staying on the bridge at 20 fathoms. (Only spotted that for the first time yesterday when I decided that to deny myself the pleasure of actually seeing all the brilliant graphics work that has gone into this game was taking the obsession for realism a touch too far. I won't use it for 'cheating', but while I'm creeping up on a target with nothing better to do, why not watch my boat ghost through the sea-grass?)

As far as your question about the operation of the 'Canary Gauge' is concerned, as Safety Officer, I should know this, but have never actually looked into it. I had assumed that it was calibrated to 100% equals 50% fatality rate (the usual measure of 'lethality'). So, I would think that the 3% concentration level that you mention is, indeed, the 100% point on the scale (after all, not much point showing the equivalent of 5 or 10% CO2 concentration, as it goes without saying THERE WOULD BE NO-ONE AROUND TO READ IT!

I've had a couple of confined space issues. Once when an arrogant Chief PO ordered a BIG Tongan welder down into a pit to clean it with no breathing or recovery tackle - it had been full of acid-based paint-stripper fumes, so, naturally, he collapsed. He wanted to order four more of his ilk down there (can you imagine trying to get one of those 300 pound warriors out of a hole in the ground?). They were going to do it too, until another CPO, who, thank the Powers, happened to be passing, intervened. I've never seen a screaming match like that, but eventually the idiot backed down and allowed the rescue team to do their thing with proper gear. Only one bloke in hospital for a week with respiratory and acid-burn issues, instead of 3 or 4 dead. Lucky. But, I've only had one encounter with CO/CO2

I was an idiot. Or, more kindly, ignorant of how quickly things can go wrong. It was winter in Sydney and we had no serious heating in the apartment. We naturally had all the ports & hatches fast-tight. We had a tiny Japanese Hibachi B-B-Q. We'd done some teppanyaki and gone to bed. I'd decided to just leave it to burn in the dining room for warmth. A couple of hours later, I woke with a splitting headache, like I'd never experienced before. I tried to wake my wife but couldn't get anything sensible out of her - she was in trouble, too. In my stupor, I was having great trouble working out what was going on.

Luckily, I fairly quickly figured out that it was the B-B-Q, so opened everything, and put the thing out on the balcony. It took us an hour or so to recover. I have no idea what concentration we reached (I still find it incredible that a couple of hands full of B-B-Q heat beads could generate enough to fill a two-bedroom apartment sufficiently to give us such a scare), but it certainly gave me a whole new respect for the Silent But Deadly class of Confined Space risks!

Gryff

[in_vino_vomitus]

On the same subject, once again, a long way from the sea. On my arctic training in Norway, there were four of us in a snowhole and outside a blizzard was raging. We were using a liquid-fuel double burner to cook with that gave off a lot of heat, and we'd closed up the entrance to the snowhole, leaving the usual ventilation hole, with a ski pole through it to keep it clear.

Suddenly the burner went out, then the candles did too. someone struck a match to relight it, but the sulphur fizzled away and then went out as well. After three more attempts, I think the same thought occurred to all of us at once "We have no air!!!", and it's scary to think that it took so long given that we all know what makes fire work and how to stop it.

As far as the actual bug goes, when I see it I just save and reload, which fixes it. I've noticed a similar thing with the Silent running command which may well have the same underlying cause - anyway the command is acknowledged but not executed, which has got me in trouble in the past, but the save and reload fix works there too.

[Gryffon300]

On the same subject, once again, a long way from the sea. On my arctic training in Norway, there were four of us in a snowhole and outside a blizzard was raging. We were using a liquid-fuel double burner to cook with that gave off a lot of heat, and we'd closed up the entrance to the snowhole, leaving the usual ventilation hole, with a ski pole through it to keep it clear.

Suddenly the burner went out, then the candles did too. someone struck a match to relight it, but the sulphur fizzled away and then went out as well. After three more attempts, I think the same thought occurred to all of us at once "We have no air!!!", and it's scary to think that it took so long given that we all know what makes fire work and how to stop it.

Makes your heart race, doesn't it? Great story - thanks.

Gryff