TSA Will Permit Knives, Golf Clubs on U.S. Planes [Archive]

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Feuer Frei!

03-05-13, 08:44 PM

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration (http://topics.bloomberg.com/transportation-security-administration/) will let people carry small pocketknives onto passenger planes for the first time since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, along with golf clubs, hockey sticks and plastic Wiffle Ball-style bats.

The agency will permit knives with retractable blades shorter than 6 centimeters (2.36 inches) and narrower than 1/2 inch, TSA Administrator John Pistole (http://topics.bloomberg.com/john-pistole/) said today at an aviation security conference in Brooklyn (http://topics.bloomberg.com/brooklyn/). The change, to conform with international rules, takes effect April 25.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-05/tsa-will-permit-knives-golf-clubs-on-u-s-planes.html

August

03-05-13, 09:25 PM

About time.

Nobody is going to hijack a plane with this:

http://swissarmyblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Classic1.jpg

Red October1984

03-05-13, 09:39 PM

I'm all for this....I randomly carry a knife around. (Not in certain public places) They're handy little tools to have. Of course the one I have that I carry won't pass those specs. I've got other small ones that I could take traveling.

Because when you just CAN'T open that snack with your teeth....when you get that odd hangnail...when you got a splinter....when you need to get into a box...

Or when something needs to be cut...

I'm not talking about people. Knives are nice little things to have. Now if you are like me and carry a 3 1/2 inch spring assisted Smith and Wesson Black Ops knife....weeellllll...You are just going to have to settle for a smaller knife. I won't complain. I'm glad that this is happening. :cool:

Buddahaid

03-05-13, 09:40 PM

Seriously, someone might have a comfy chair though.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Monty+Python+Comfy+Chair&mid=617A5345B46844F4E707617A5345B46844F4E707&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

I'm actually surprised by such rational thought. Is this a joke?

Red October1984

03-05-13, 11:16 PM

I'm actually surprised by such rational thought. Is this a joke?

My first thought exactly. I had to look into it a bit. I didn't believe it at first...but sure enough....it is a real decision that government officials actually made.

Best part? They actually made a good decision.

Platapus

03-06-13, 10:20 AM

About time.

Nobody is going to hijack a plane with this:

http://swissarmyblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Classic1.jpg

I don't know, I read somewhere where a bunch guys hijacked a few airliners with these

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It is not the actual damage a weapon can do, but the threat of the weapon that allows people to hijack aircraft. Especially, when the airline policy is not to resist. Which I hope has changed. There are risks to resisting and not resisting hijackers, as we have all witnessed.

Up close, and with the proper training, a swiss army knife is just as capable of threatening/injuring/killing someone as some other weapons.

Personally, I am glad TSA is allowing knives on board. Too bad my model of Swiss Army Knife is still prohibited.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9-eIYaFjO33h0defxzWPxjIuq9XUGS9kCx0xrYOo20p2lWLTg

If I ever decide to fly again, I will have to get one of my smaller ones to take with me. I have been carrying a swiss army knife with me since I was 8 years old. I feel naked without one. :yep:

Madox58

03-06-13, 10:24 AM

I'd rather someone came at me with a knife rather then a utility/box knife!
The cuts in a slashing motion with the utility are much worse.
That's what kills you in the fight.

August

03-06-13, 12:37 PM

It is not the actual damage a weapon can do, but the threat of the weapon that allows people to hijack aircraft. Especially, when the airline policy is not to resist. Which I hope has changed. There are risks to resisting and not resisting hijackers, as we have all witnessed.

I seriously doubt that there will be a successful hijacking here in the states in the foreseeable future. You might be able to control a couple hundred passengers with a box cutter if they think all you'll do is demand that the plane be flown to Cuba but not if they think you'll fly the plane into a building.

Betonov

03-06-13, 01:25 PM

You might be able to control a couple hundred passengers with a box cutter if they think all you'll do is demand that the plane be flown to Cuba bu

I know how I'll pay the trip for my vacation this year.

August

03-06-13, 05:36 PM

I know how I'll pay the trip for my vacation this year.

Good luck getting anyone to believe that in the post 911 world. :)

You and your box cutter would be quickly gang tackled and tied to a seat until the Marshals can escort you off the plane at it's regular destination.

Feuer Frei!

03-08-13, 05:50 AM

And just for you people who don't like reading words:

http://i.imgur.com/HtzkuFp.jpg

SOURCE (https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/860395_10152083321899119_1953714323_o.jpg)

Platapus

03-08-13, 09:14 AM

too bad my SAK has a locking blade. :nope:

Not sure I understand the concern about molded grip. Sounds a lot like the prohibition of "thumb holes" during the assault weapon debate.

August

03-08-13, 09:18 AM

So I guess my knife is right out...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNJ15s7Gy8wu-QvDqYRi3sLFCp-kEHGs7ArclOG2A9vnMm_gm-

Singed

03-08-13, 09:30 AM

too bad my SAK has a locking blade. :nope:

Not sure I understand the concern about molded grip. Sounds a lot like the prohibition of "thumb holes" during the assault weapon debate.

It is an assault knife because it is scary looking! :har:

IMO: They need to do some things to give the illusion of relaxing regulations but still want to keep the bans absolutely as broad as possible. Too many Americans are too fed up with intrusive government and the TSA has justifiably been catching a lot of the flak.

I don't think it matters much what they allow or don't allow on board short of explosives, it will be a very long time before you see Americans peacefully cooperate with hijackers again.

Platapus

03-08-13, 10:58 AM

So I guess my knife is right out...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNJ15s7Gy8wu-QvDqYRi3sLFCp-kEHGs7ArclOG2A9vnMm_gm-

I always smiled when I saw those handgun bayonets for sale.

A fix bayonets and charge! :) Poke poke poke

Dowly

03-08-13, 11:07 AM

Red October1984

03-08-13, 11:07 AM

And just for you people who don't like reading words:

http://i.imgur.com/HtzkuFp.jpg

SOURCE (https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/860395_10152083321899119_1953714323_o.jpg)

Yeah...I can't carry mine.... :oops:

This is my knife...

http://www.bladehq.com/images/knives/smithwesson/smith_wesson_spring_assists_black_swblop3t_tanto_p ln_bhq.jpg

Betonov

03-08-13, 11:17 AM

I'm trying REAAALLY hard to find a reason why you would need to carry a knife when travelling on a plane. :doh:

Makes two of us.

But I think it's more of a liberty issue and I'm on the ''liberty'' side.

Do I need a knife on a plane ?? No
Should I be allowed to bring my property somewhere I payed for to use ?? Yes, a knife is light and does not interfere with airplane workings

Should I just put the knife in the luggage and take it out after we landed ?? Best thing to do

Dowly

03-08-13, 11:26 AM

But I think it's more of a liberty issue...

I can understand that.. but not why knifes should be allowed on planes.

Just asking for trouble if you ask me. :-?

Platapus

03-08-13, 11:30 AM

I'm trying REAAALLY hard to find a reason why you would need to carry a knife when travelling on a plane. :doh:

Perhaps the better question is why should it be prohibited to carry a small pocket utility knife while traveling

There's this one quote that comes to mind, some of you might have heard it:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"[/QUOTE]

Well since I am not an Terrorist, there is no history to repeat, other than my history of carrying small utility knives on airlines for decades and not hurting anyone.

I would like to reference my signature. Why infringe on what I can do because of what someone else once did?

I am pretty sure that statistically, many more people carry knives than have ever hijacked an airline.

August

03-08-13, 12:16 PM

I always smiled when I saw those handgun bayonets for sale.

A fix bayonets and charge! :) Poke poke poke

:)

Surprisingly enough it's not a new concept.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpjCoK0LWcHYYiuR9F0C138ul-DAZOXshp0Zl4HSqBV3YBsRKI1g

Stealhead

03-08-13, 12:52 PM

Armistead

03-08-13, 02:30 PM

I'm trying REAAALLY hard to find a reason why you would need to carry a knife when travelling on a plane. :doh:

There's this one quote that comes to mind, some of you might have heard it:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

I carry a PK every where I go, have since I was 15. Heck, when I was in school we all carried buck knives in a belt case, had guns on our racks in the parking lot, etc.

Dowly

03-08-13, 02:59 PM

Jimbuna

03-08-13, 03:11 PM

Call that a knife, this is a knife...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4

Dowly

03-08-13, 03:21 PM

Call that a knife, this is a knife...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4

I'll see yer knife with a:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhlHzYt4xRM

August

03-08-13, 03:22 PM

What I'm trying to say is, is it really a good idea to allow knifes on board after 9/11?

If anyone can bring a knife of sorts onto a plane, that also includes possibly terrorists,
and not just terrorists, but people who might be unstable. Why take that risk factor?

Few have mentioned the brave action onboard United 93, but really, if a terrorist
or terrorists, want to kill Americans, they can just take a few knives, get their
way to the cockpit and either fly to a target or crash if the passengers try to something.

I know cockpits are locked, but can the crew handle it, if the hijackers start
killing people, unless they can get access to the cockpit? Maybe, maybe not.

Any way I watch at the decision, I see the *possibility* that something goes wrong and an unnecessary risk.

I'm just trying to understand what is the point of allowing knifes onto planes, that's all. Because I cant come up with any reason. :06:

Because they confiscate dozens of jack knifes every day for no good reason. Nobody will be able to take control of an aircraft with a box cutter let alone a Swiss army knife ever again. The 911 hijackers only got away with it because people thought it was a hostage situation.

United 93 crashed because passengers realized what was in store for them but only after the terrorists had already taken control of the plane. Were that to happen again today they would never make it to the cockpit door without being gang tackled by a hundred scared and pissed off passengers.

Platapus

03-08-13, 03:31 PM

Dowly,

Well, there are two philosophies about this

1. Everything is prohibited unless permitted. Meaning that in order to do something, I need to justify it. This is the position you took in wording your question

2. Everything is permitted unless prohibited. Meaning that there needs to be justification for why something should not be done.

Which philosophy is correct? They both are, depending on the population and the circumstances.

In my opinion, philosophy 2 should apply to citizens. I should be able to do anything I want, unless there is a law/regulation prohibiting it. Citizens don't need to justify why they want to do something, the government must justify why the citizen should not be allowed to do it.

Philosophy 1 should apply to governments. The government should only be permitted to do stuff they are specifically authorized. If the government wants to do more, it has to justify why.

In your knife instance, I should be able to carry a knife, without justification. It is up to the government to specifically justify why I should not be allowed to carry a knife.

That's the difference. In your view, I need to justify why I should. In my view the government needs to justify why I can't.

em2nought

03-08-13, 03:36 PM

Uh oh, probably airlines cutting back on supplying eating utensils. You might want to bring your fork along also. :D

Betonov

03-08-13, 03:41 PM

United 93 crashed because passengers realized what was in store for them but only after the terrorists had already taken control of the plane. Were that to happen again today they would never make it to the cockpit door without being gang tackled by a hundred scared and pissed off passengers.

5 terrorists with machetes would be unable to take control of an aircraft with a 100 passengers. People don't think: lets just sit this one out and they'll go away anymore

Sailor Steve

03-08-13, 03:42 PM

This is my knife...
I gues mine's right out then.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Buck.jpg

Sailor Steve

03-08-13, 03:48 PM

5 terrorists with machetes would be unable to take control of an aircraft with a 100 passengers. People don't think: lets just sit this one out and they'll go away anymore
In the past aircraft in American were hijacked because somebody wanted to go to Cuba or the like. It was considered safer to just play along. Then people tried hijacking planes for ransom, demanding money. Again, it was better to let them do it. No one was harmed and it was a job for the authorities.

This took everybody by surprise. The passengers and crew almost certainly thought it was safest to just let the hijackers have their way, and no one would be hurt.

This was a new thing and it changed everything.

Betonov

03-08-13, 03:57 PM

Since were all showing off their knives :O:

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575507_468876079791581_807096270_n.jpg

Jimbuna

03-08-13, 04:01 PM

Straight out of my cutlery drawer :)

Sailor Steve

03-08-13, 04:02 PM

Since were all showing off their knives :O:
Only the ones we carry around with us all the time. I've got a big one too, but it stays at home.

Betonov

03-08-13, 04:14 PM

Only the ones we carry around with us all the time.

The blue Victorinox at the top :03:

August

03-08-13, 04:18 PM

In the past aircraft in American were hijacked because somebody wanted to go to Cuba or the like. It was considered safer to just play along. Then people tried hijacking planes for ransom, demanding money. Again, it was better to let them do it. No one was harmed and it was a job for the authorities.

This took everybody by surprise. The passengers and crew almost certainly thought it was safest to just let the hijackers have their way, and no one would be hurt.

This was a new thing and it changed everything.

Exactly. A game changer as they say. Passengers are a lot more likely to intervene if they see something start to go down.

Stealhead

03-08-13, 04:20 PM

Since were all showing off their knives :O:

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575507_468876079791581_807096270_n.jpg

I have one of those Gerber Machetes better as a tool than a weapon though one whack and it could get stuck.Now against one person it would work.

If you like Machetes a Kurki would be best as a weapon.

August

03-08-13, 05:23 PM

Red October1984

03-08-13, 07:45 PM

@RedOctober you cant even carry your knife to school anyway much less on an airplane.

If you must have a larger knife with you on your trip put it in your checked luggage once you leave the airport put it on your person but of course be aware of the laws in that area in some places it is illegal to carry a knife.In some states an auto open knife is illegal.Your looks like the kind that you flip open with your thumb though not truly a "switch blade".

The Smith and Wesson knife that I have there is spring assisted. Switchblades are illegal in Missouri and this is as close as you can legally get.

I carry it randomly around. I don't carry it to school but I have around town numerous times. Now there was a time when I forgot I had it in my coat pocket and I had it at school but it didn't leave that pocket all day.

Only the ones we carry around with us all the time. I've got a big one too, but it stays at home.

That was the one that I carry around. I've got tons of other knives...Hunting Knives, Pocketknives, and some homemade ones from a family member.

I don't have a machete....yet.....

Stealhead

03-08-13, 08:50 PM

The Smith and Wesson knife that I have there is spring assisted. Switchblades are illegal in Missouri and this is as close as you can legally get.

I carry it randomly around. I don't carry it to school but I have around town numerous times. Now there was a time when I forgot I had it in my coat pocket and I had it at school but it didn't leave that pocket all day.

That was the one that I carry around. I've got tons of other knives...Hunting Knives, Pocketknives, and some homemade ones from a family member.

I don't have a machete....yet.....

Spring assist flip open same difference in that you still manually open the blade with your thumb you just have a some form of spring to make it easier.

The automatics("switch blades") are the kind where you press a button and the blade extends on its own.Those are actually legal in Florida I am not a fan of them my self.

This is the kind of spring assist that some of my knives have.
I bet the TSA hates this kind. I almost always have this knife in clipped in my pocket.It is so thin i forget that it is even there once I walked into a bank with it still clipped in.No one noticed it though.

The spring in this type the pressure is on the blade wile it is closed and a tang moves when you push on the thumb grabs it self locks as well.But that is an expensive knife but worth it made in the USA from American steel and a life time warranty ship it to Washington and they will fix it up no charge.

Really though a fixed blade knife is the best to have especially for cleaning game.

This particular knife is designed with conceal carry in mind you could hide it easily if you wanted to.

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/IMG_4749_zps4131015d.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/IMG_4750_zps70212faf.jpg

Red October1984

03-08-13, 09:16 PM

Spring assist flip open same difference in that you still manually open the blade with your thumb you just have a some form of spring to make it easier.

The automatics("switch blades") are the kind where you press a button and the blade extends on its own.Those are actually legal in Florida I am not a fan of them my self.

This is the kind of spring assist that some of my knives have.
I bet the TSA hates this kind. I almost always have this knife in clipped in my pocket.It is so thin i forget that it is even there once I walked into a bank with it still clipped in.No one noticed it though.

The spring in this type the pressure is on the blade wile it is closed and a tang moves when you push on the thumb grabs it self locks as well.But that is an expensive knife but worth it made in the USA from American steel and a life time warranty ship it to Washington and they will fix it up no charge.

Really though a fixed blade knife is the best to have especially for cleaning game.

This particular knife is designed with conceal carry in mind you could hide it easily if you wanted to.

I like that knife. :up:

I once carried a bloody fixed blade hunting knife into a police station after I had been hunting.... I know most of the cops through my dad who works with them all the time. (Dad's a lawyer)

Luckily I had a long shirt on.... I also had all my camo on.... :oops: My dad was with me and I was okay.

I probably will never wear a hunting knife on my hip when I leave the woods now. I should just take it off my belt and leave it.

I'm sure the TSA or other governmental agency is watching this thread like a hawk. :sunny: I'll just say this. There are safe, responsible people out there. There are also people who make mistakes and forget that they are wearing hunting knives on their hip. I am somewhere between those two but closer to responsible. I've only mistakenly carried a knife into an "off limits" place twice. This one and the time I accidently carried it to school. Now, I make sure I do not do stuff like that.

Sorry TSA, but i'm an American...while also human at the same time. :up:

EDIT: On the other hand, I've never been on an airliner...and I probably won't for a long time. When I do get to travel on an airliner, I won't be carrying a knife. However, I support the right.

Stealhead

03-08-13, 09:24 PM

From what I understand what they do is simply take the knife or banned item from you if it was an honest mistake.

One of my brother in laws cousins was an air marshal for a while and he of course knew what people can and cannot have.He said that TSA just keeps the items unless you pay to have it mailed back to you.

Don't be so paranoid RedOctober next you are going to tell us about how the new digital kilowatt hour meters are used to control you by the government.I actually overheard people saying this in public once I was drinking a soda and it nearly came out of my nose.

I have flown my fair share of times pre and post 9/11 post 9/11 the routine is so in your face you are unlikely to forget that you had something.

If you want to be a pilot in the USAF you had better practice better memory you dont want to leave some vital part of your gear behind.I can see you walking along the flightline without a line badge and have a member of Security Forces give you the "Unauthorized personal interview"(conducted at the business end of a firearm).

Red October1984

03-08-13, 10:32 PM

Don't be so paranoid RedOctober next you are going to tell us about how the new digital kilowatt hour meters are used to control you by the government.I actually overheard people saying this in public once I was drinking a soda and it nearly came out of my nose.

I'm not THAT paranoid. I'm just perceptive...wary...curious...etc. Stuff like that. I may seem like that on the internet because I don't know any of you. (Except for the user Slugger (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=305837). I've spent pretty much my whole life with that guy. Looks like I need to tell him to post some more. :) )

I'd like to know how, if possible, you could use Kilowatt Hour Meters to control somebody. Not that I'd actually do it. That would be wrong. Technical things like how stuff works and how you can use stuff to your advantage interest me.... Maybe I would be a good Engineer or something. I'm keeping my options open in case something happens where I can't join the Air Force.

If you want to be a pilot in the USAF you had better practice better memory you dont want to leave some vital part of your gear behind.I can see you walking along the flightline without a line badge and have a member of Security Forces give you the "Unauthorized personal interview"(conducted at the business end of a firearm).

I've got good memory. Like I said, I've only forgotten about my knife twice since I started carrying it around. (Close to a year ago when I realized the value of having a knife with you. They can be useful tools to have) I'm sure they will drill good memory into me during whatever Officer School I pick whether it be the Academy or ROTC. I don't forget stuff I use every day. If I use it two or three times a week...there's a greater chance that i'll forget where I set something. The line badge would be something important and I'd probably be using it often if I was a pilot. The prospect of being interrogated by Security doesn't sound too great. I'm a quick learner... When I forgot about my knife those two times, I remembered it pretty quickly. If I was walking to the flight line, I'd check and see if I forgot something. If I did...well...I probably would have a " :huh: " moment and get what I forgot ASAP.

ETR3(SS)

03-09-13, 02:01 AM

I'd have to disagree with those of you stating that airline passengers would gang tackle a terrorist on a flight. The general American public has the courage of an ostrich. They don't want to get hurt or die. Ironically they'd probably only think of the short term (i.e. the knife) versus the long term (the plane crashing) in their self preservation thought process. If anyone did do anything I would see it being the 65 year old Vietnam vet instead of the 21 year old intern. We've been turned into a bunch of couch potato, bon bon eating, reality tv show watching pansies.

Betonov

03-09-13, 02:56 AM

What about all the Call of Duty fanboys living out their wet dreams assaulting the enemy of freedom and making a Leeroy Jenkins that would look like a zerg rush on the unexpecting terrorists

Feuer Frei!

03-09-13, 04:53 AM

I'd have to disagree with those of you stating that airline passengers would gang tackle a terrorist on a flight. The general American public has the courage of an ostrich. Possibly, although Ostriches are known for the brazen attacks on colourful clothing items on unsuspecting Humans :haha:They don't want to get hurt or die. That and maybe they have the notion in their heads of "Don't try to be a Hero" Hell, no way in the world are you going to know what a person is like in cqc or hand-to-hand with a knife. Unless you see the guy in 'action' then you may well be advised to sit this one out. If anyone did do anything I would see it being the 65 year old Vietnam vet instead of the 21 year old intern. We've been turned into a bunch of couch potato, bon bon eating, reality tv show watching pansies.
True that.

August

03-09-13, 10:26 AM

August

03-09-13, 10:36 AM

And another thing. I wouldn't dis 21 year olds. That 21 year old intern just might have already done a tour in Afghanistan and have way more actual combat experience than the Vietnam Veteran.

Betonov

03-09-13, 10:49 AM

Then explain United flight 93.

He already did

They don't want to get hurt or die.

They fought back when they knew they were going to be used as a bomb.

August

03-09-13, 11:48 AM

He already did

Well I disagree with his conclusions. I also disagree with his characterization of 21 year olds.

Betonov

03-09-13, 01:09 PM

Pasengers just need a leader. Someone will stand up, could be a 21 year old, the bold with follow, then the rest of them will find the courage to join. A snowball effect.

Red October1984

03-09-13, 01:37 PM

Pasengers just need a leader. Someone will stand up, could be a 21 year old, the bold with follow, then the rest of them will find the courage to join. A snowball effect.

This reminds me of that scene in the 2008 version of Get Smart... :har:

Platapus

03-09-13, 03:56 PM

The bottom line is that no one knows how they will react in that situation. It is just like being exposed to combat for the first time. People you least expect will rise to the occasion, while some of the real tough talkers will hang back.

Forget the Vietnam vets or the 21 year olds. The hijackers need to worry about the mothers on the plane. :o:yeah: