Another traffic fatality to discuss...

[tater]

http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/albuquerque/Police-identify-officer-involved-in-fatal-crash/-/9153728/18499262/-/y14yux/-/index.html

Almost 2am, police officer "looking for a drunk driver" that was reported enters intersection with his emergency lights, etc, on even though the light is red for him. He T-bones a car, killing the woman in the passenger seat, and seriously injuring the driver. The passenger had been at a bar, and called her 19 YO sister to pick her up so she'd not drive home possibly drunk.

This is inexcusable. I'm fine with emergency vehicles being able to run lights, but they need to slow/stop, and check before they do so, period. The guy should be charged with negligence, and as much as I hate lawsuits, I think my city should be reamed to the point that employees allowed to run lights are deathly afraid to do so. The ability to ignore lights when absolutely needed comes with the responsibility not to kill innocents.

I see cops and firefighters go through lights all the time during the day, but they always slow and make sure it's OK to do so. This guy probably figured the road was empty at 2am, and didn't bother to check. He should always "bother."

[Herr-Berbunch]

Iirc when on an emergency run red lights should be treated as a give way.

He probably did get lax and think nobody else would be about, but that's no excuse. :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

As you said, it was 2am. He probably believe the intersection cleared. But, a 0200 most bars are letting out. This was a DUI call. Not a B&E or armed robbery. Why the lights and high speed?

Here in MD the emergency vehicle must stop at intersections. Too many t-boned vehicles and hurt people.

[August]

As you said, it was 2am. He probably believe the intersection cleared. But, a 0200 most bars are letting out. This was a DUI call. Not a B&E or armed robbery. Why the lights and high speed?

Here in MD the emergency vehicle must stop at intersections. Too many t-boned vehicles and hurt people.


He says the lights were on. Do we know this? Sounds to me he's trying to make excuses.

[Armistead]

Thought it was standard procedure for emergency vehicles to slow and check at intersections even while running lites, etc... There is no excuse for this, by the look of the wreck, the officer was going fast.

[Tribesman]

Thought it was standard procedure for emergency vehicles to slow and check at intersections even while running lites, etc... There is no excuse for this, by the look of the wreck, the officer was going fast.

Yes, emergency vehicles are only allowed to break road rules if it is safe to do so.
Lights and sirens are only warning signals not drive as you like passes.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes, emergency vehicles are only allowed to break road rules if it is safe to do so.
Lights and sirens are only warning signals not drive as you like passes.

True, but there are department established rules concerning certain types of road ways, intersections and types of calls dictating how to handle the response in a vehicle.

[tater]

Iirc when on an emergency run red lights should be treated as a give way.

He probably did get lax and think nobody else would be about, but that's no excuse. :nope:

Yes, the emergency vehicles have right of way, but if you are entering an intersection at ~100kph, and the cop is going 120 or 130, there is simply no time to react. The police don't need to run lights at high speed unless they are heading to a gunfight in progress or something, and even then the handful of seconds lost by slowing to check don't matter.

[tater]

He says the lights were on. Do we know this? Sounds to me he's trying to make excuses.

The officer says his lights were on. The passenger is dead, and the other hapless driver has a spinal injury, no idea is she's even conscious.

What a terrible waste. Killed woman was in the NG, too.

[AVGWarhawk]

Department protocol for emergency response will determine the officers future. I'm still of the mind that 120 mph is not protocol for a DUI call.

[tater]

I used KPH for our friends overseas :)

[Jimbuna]

Yes, emergency vehicles are only allowed to break road rules if it is safe to do so.
Lights and sirens are only warning signals not drive as you like passes.

That is certainly the current position/protocol regarding the emergency services in the UK.

[AVGWarhawk]

I used KPH for our friends overseas :)

74 mph is still very fast for a DUI call. He was probably slowing some for the intersection as well.

[tater]

Yeah, I was guessing his speed, but the limit on that road varies between 40 and 55, and regular traffic usually moves about 60-65. Was a guess on my part. The other road (girl's car) is 50 mph, as I recall, and regardless, they had a green light.

Clearly from the wreck the APD truck was moving pretty fast.

[AVGWarhawk]

Whatever the case, it is a horrible accident. I wish accidents like this did not happen.

[August]

Clearly from the wreck the APD truck was moving pretty fast.


Especially for a truck.

[tater]

I've been thinking about such accidents because last week a guy slammed on the brakes after looking up from his phone, and didn't manage to stop until through the light, and that was including using my wife's BMW which was stopped at the red light they shared as a barrier.

His skid marks were ~300ft until he hit my wife's bumper (I measured them on google earth), and my wife's car ended up ~75' into the intersection, and his car 75' past that.

Glad he looked up from texting when he did. #@$!# POS. Wish he had died to prevent entering the gene pool, sadly he just broke his nose.

[fireftr18]

There's not enough to the story to really comment on it. Apparently, from reading the comments, it is a problem intersection.
I can comment in general on emergency vehicle driving. In Kentucky, the law says basically an emergency vehicle on an emergency, can ignore speed limits, stop lights, etc. But must proceed with due regard for safety. In other words, do what you want, but if you hurt someone, you're responsible. Most states have the same laws. Specifically, Lexington, KY, my dept requires a full stop at stop lights and stop signs before proceeding.

[tater]

There's not enough to the story to really comment on it. Apparently, from reading the comments, it is a problem intersection.
I can comment in general on emergency vehicle driving. In Kentucky, the law says basically an emergency vehicle on an emergency, can ignore speed limits, stop lights, etc. But must proceed with due regard for safety. In other words, do what you want, but if you hurt someone, you're responsible. Most states have the same laws. Specifically, Lexington, KY, my dept requires a full stop at stop lights and stop signs before proceeding.

I imagine our laws are the same. I've likely seen hundreds of emergency vehicles go through lights in decades of driving, and they always stop, or nearly stop that I have seen. It is a bad intersection, all the more reason to always be careful.

[August]

I would think it is simple self preservation.

Regardless of laws, lights, sirens or anything else, the ambulance or patrol car driver is smart to slows down and look before crossing an intersection to avoid being t-boned himself, which in this instance had the officer got to the intersection just a split second later might have been the case.

[Bilge_Rat]

I've been thinking about such accidents because last week a guy slammed on the brakes after looking up from his phone, and didn't manage to stop until through the light, and that was including using my wife's BMW which was stopped at the red light they shared as a barrier.

His skid marks were ~300ft until he hit my wife's bumper (I measured them on google earth), and my wife's car ended up ~75' into the intersection, and his car 75' past that.

Glad he looked up from texting when he did. #@$!# POS. Wish he had died to prevent entering the gene pool, sadly he just broke his nose.

reminds me of an accident I had in 89-90. I was at a light, late for a meeting and stepped on the gas as soon as the light turned green. Another car trying to beat the yellow light hit me from the left going 70-80 kmh and tore off my bumper. If he had had been 1-2 seconds later, he would have hit my door and probably have killed me. Ever since then, I always check and wait 1-2 seconds after the light turns green before taking off...

A lot of these accidents are from lack of specialized training. Eons ago when I was a student, I had a part time/summer job as a driving instructor. One of the "Old Hands" there used to teach police/ambulance drivers how to drive. He always told me and had proven that you could get faster from point A to B by going a bit slower, paying attention to other cars and making your intentions clearly known rather than just barrelling along at top speed.

[tater]

I went through a green light once, years ago. I was the 3d car through the light, it was "very green." Some jackass in a 1980s oldsmobile ran the red light by going around the 2-3 stopped cars in his lane by driving into the left turn only lane to avoid them. Luckily I saw him and slammed on my brakes in time to have everything in front of the wheels of my honda accord removed.

The guy stopped in a parking lot right there, then took off! I was incredulous taht someone would leave a crash, and went into the motel lobby to use a phone. While on the line cop cars showed up, and I went outside frantically to describe the car and that he had fled.

The cop said, "calm dow, he didn't make it far. He rear-ended a police cruiser at Carlisle."

When the guy that hits you also hits a police car... they all show up, they even took pictures of my wreck for me :)

[Platapus]

Thought it was standard procedure for emergency vehicles to slow and check at intersections even while running lites, etc... There is no excuse for this, by the look of the wreck, the officer was going fast.

When I was riding in the squads, we practically came to a full stop at all intersections.

The extra 5-10 seconds it takes won't make any difference.

Although I never was a driver, I heard that the hardest thing about training the drivers is to teach them NOT to drive fast like they see in the movies. And to never never just blow through an intersection. :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

reminds me of an accident I had in 89-90. I was at a light, late for a meeting and stepped on the gas as soon as the light turned green. Another car trying to beat the yellow light hit me from the left going 70-80 kmh and tore off my bumper.
Same thing. It was 1975. My wife and I were driving home in the middle of the day. I was slowing down for a red light when it changed green. I went on through it. The guy who claimed he was trying to beat the yellow light missed it by several seconds, and hit the right rear of our car, just one foot behind my wife. As I got out of the car somebody grabbed me from behind. A complete stranger said "I'll be your witness! I saw the whole thing!"

IThe cop said, "calm dow, he didn't make it far. He rear-ended a police cruiser at Carlisle."
:rotfl2: :haha: :har:

That's got to be some kind of special. :sunny:

Emergency vehicles in Salt Lake seem to be well trained. I see them slow way down for intersections all the time, even when lights are flashing and sirens blaring.

[Stealhead]

One of my good friends is a paramedic here in Florida he says that the rules are very strict when it comes to emergency vehicles.They can only do certain things
at the highest rated code(call) and they always stop at any form of intersection make sure things are clear and go through.


In the county he works for all vehicles(police,fire,ambulance) have data recording system that records the rate of speed and also tells if in fact the lights and sirens are active.The recording system runs constantly as long as the vehicle is traveling down the road no matter what the situation.His employer often reviews the data and if you get caught blasting through an intersection you more or less get fired and at minimum a very serious reprimand if you cause an accident in any form involving public vechiles that is the fault of the person driving the emergency vehicle you get fired.

In my opinion any agency that allows its employees to blast through an intersection with out stopping to quickly check that things are clear that agency is flirting with disaster.

[tater]

I asked a friend who is a firefighter when I saw him at the kid's school yesterday, and he said they always check, and thought this was really dumb/preventable.

[Stealhead]

It just goes to show how important in certain jobs it is to constantly focus on safety.I worked on the flight line as a mechanic in the Air Force and had to consider the many obvious hazards on an active military flight line not to mention the heavy equipment we worked on that could easily kill you or remove a limb if you got lax.

Because of this every single shift every single day at the start and end of each shift a safety briefing was given the reason was to beat in everyone's head the idea of safety and of always being aware of the daily hazards and always following the regulations.

My guess is that a lot of emergency service agencies do not do this as much as they should be and unless the idea of safety is heavily promoted within an organization that takes part in any hazardous activity people that are part of that agency will become lax about things even if there are strict regulations if there is no reinforcement people will disobey the things that they feel hinder them to their and others detriment.

[tater]

Yeah, likely very true. This seems particularly important in jobs (1st responders) where adrenaline probably plays a role. It needs to be so ingrained that it is automatic. This guy has been on the force since 2000, though. Yeesh.