Potential DPRK nuclear test detected

[Oberon]

Seismographs have picked up indications that the DPRK may have conducted another nuclear test.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21421841

Either that, or little Kim let a really big one rip after last nights curry.


EDIT [5:52Z]: DPRK confirms nuclear test

[Reece]

Seismographs have picked up indications that little Kim let a really big one rip after last nights curry.


EDIT [5:52Z]: DPRK confirmed
Yes I heard the same thing!!:o
Wonder what damage he caused!!:hmmm:

[Herr-Berbunch]

In North Korea? About ten cents worth, and that's in the middle of Pyongyang.

[Oberon]

The DPRK have stated that it was their largest detonation yet, a statement which seems to be backed up by the seismograph readings. They also claim that it was a much smaller sized device, which is interesting but debatable.

[Jimbuna]

I'd be double checking if I asked the buggas the time.

[Dowly]

I bet they just made a big pile of firecrackers and blew them up. :hmmm:

[Mork_417]

I bet they just made a big pile of firecrackers and blew them up. :hmmm:


I wish. :o

[Jimbuna]

Wondering how many more thousands will die of starvation now because of the heightened level of sanctions that will probably follow :nope:

[kranz]

You've missed the most important information:


[the nuclear test] did not pose any negative impact on the surrounding ecological environment

an eco-friendly blast:woot:

they aren't THAT bad, are they?

[Wolferz]

Maybe they figured that now was a good time to do this because Japan won't notice the radioactive cloud against the current level of background radiation.

If we get lucky, China will handle this little Kim problem.

[HundertzehnGustav]

the words "lucky" and "china will handle" are incompatible to each other in the same sentence. paragraph. Text. Book. Ever.

[Skybird]

Sounds as if somebody in NK is expanding his grab to powers in Pyongyang and bringing the apparatus more and more under his control. Not good, since this translates into a hardening of the dictatorship again, after the phase of transition from the old to the new Führer.

[reignofdeath]

The DPRK have stated that it was their largest detonation yet, a statement which seems to be backed up by the seismograph readings. They also claim that it was a much smaller sized device, which is interesting but debatable.

Why do they keep playing with fire? I mean they have to know EVENTUALLY some one is going to bring the hammer down and stop slapping their wrist and bend them over and whip them red. Sorry for the weird metaphor. :-?

[Nippelspanner]

Reports like this remind me of Star Wars...
"I have a bad feeling about this!"

@CaseySmith
Oh, really?You are aware that most of the western nations "played with fire" a lot already and still have an arsenal to play some more, right?
Who has the right to say "Stop it North Korea!" ?
You? Your country, or mine?

No one. They can, theoretically, do what they want. Same goes for Iran. Them playing around with this crap does not mean anyone has the right to burst in and "whip them red", especially not when those nations have nuclear weapons capable of ending the world as we know it in 30 minutes or less.

A little ridiculous, Id say...

[reignofdeath]

Reports like this remind me of Star Wars...
"I have a bad feeling about this!"

@CaseySmith
Oh, really?You are aware that most of the western nations "played with fire" a lot already and still have an arsenal to play some more, right?
Who has the right to say "Stop it North Korea!" ?
You? Your country, or mine?

No one. They can, theoretically, do what they want. Same goes for Iran. Them playing around with this crap does not mean anyone has the right to burst in and "whip them red", especially not when those nations have nuclear weapons capable of ending the world as we know it in 30 minutes or less.

A little ridiculous, Id say...

I understand your view.

I however meant it in the form of they are a kid poking you and you tell them to not touch you again. And what do they do? They hold their finger as close to you as possible and say "Im not touching you".

I am not saying MY COUNTRY is going to come in and whoop them, however, they have been told to knock it off by more than just my country, and eventually, they are going to push someones buttons the wrong way, even if it means a possible Nuclear War. To them they just want to see what boundary they can step over next.

With Iran, although I cannot comment too much on it since I am not too informed about that situation. From what I gather, the deal was them using Nuclear for Power, where as North Korea is going straight to a middle finger and making weapons.

[Nippelspanner]

So what?
Let lil' Kim produce a thousand warheads - it is up to NK and NK alone if they do it, or not. No one has the right to tell them what to do. I want to see the reaction of the US (for example) if, let's say, Switzerland says "Hey! Stop playing with fire! Dangerous! You stop now, we no like!"

The US would probably die of laughter, because they dont give a ****.
Then, why should Kimmy boy, or anyone, give a damn?

Still, I dont like the fact anyone has this kind of weapons...

[Oberon]

Reminds me of a quote that one of the advisors would come up with during a Civilization III game, which in turn was paraphrased from, I believe, Army of Darkness.


"Good? Bad? You're the one with the nukes."


Still, on the upside Kim is unlikely to use them as anything more than a future bargaining tool. On the downside, it will make any future Korean war that much more difficult to deal with.

[Dowly]

Reminds me of a quote that one of the advisors would come up with during a Civilization III game, which in turn was paraphrased from, I believe, Army of Darkness.


"Good? Bad? You're the one with the nukes."



Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E_d4I_VYDj8#t=27s) :yep:

[Skybird]

Reminds me of a quote that one of the advisors would come up with during a Civilization III game, which in turn was paraphrased from, I believe, Army of Darkness.


"Good? Bad? You're the one with the nukes."


Still, on the upside Kim is unlikely to use them as anything more than a future bargaining tool. On the downside, it will make any future Korean war that much more difficult to deal with.

What this all means is that the American policy of containment has failed and now lies in ruins. NK has demonstrated that it now can build nuclear weapons with very significant destruction power, and it has the long range missiles to deliver them. I do not see the US currently having options.

The old game has ended, the new one is beginning. And we will not like the rules the new game is running by.

NK should have been shattered while there still was time, like Pakistan and Iran. Now it is too late. And so once again our enthusiasm for letting small evils grow into big ones, once again bears fruits and gifts us with pleasures.

"And even if hope has lived for just one day, it nevertheless has lived. " That shall be our solace.

[Buddahaid]

And Germany's full diplomatic relations agreement with DPRK, with the intent of securing non-proliferation of WMD's, was a rousing success.

[geetrue]

The war between the north and the south was around 53-54 right?

You would think that in 60 years they could've come up with some way to get along with each other.

I propose that they dig a big trench between North Korea and South Korea and bury North Korea's nuclear weapons.

Open up a free trade zone on top of the buried weapons cache and have true fellowship with food and dancing and
party favors trading reciepes for Korean food (sour cabbage yuck) and generally learning how to get along with each other.

If at any time the north thinks that they are better than the south and do not share in the same common
basic instincts of all mankind then go ahead and blow them to smitheriens ...

just leave the good ole USA out of their plan to nuke us ... :o

at this point in time it is just a fear factor that I would like to see go away :yep:

[Skybird]

And Germany's full diplomatic relations agreement with DPRK, with the intent of securing non-proliferation of WMD's, was a rousing success.
Was it? In how far?

[Skybird]

The war between the north and the south was around 53-54 right?

You would think that in 60 years they could've come up with some way to get along with each other.

I propose that they dig a big trench between North Korea and South Korea and bury North Korea's nuclear weapons.

Open up a free trade zone on top of the buried weapons cache and have true fellowship with food and dancing and
party favors trading reciepes for Korean food (sour cabbage yuck) and generally learning how to get along with each other.


Yes, it would all be so much easier if they would not be like they are, but simply would be totally different.

Thinking of it, I am wondering whether Hitler was overthrown by waging war, or by partying with him until he dropped under the table.

[Buddahaid]

Was it? In how far?

It wasn't and my response was sarcastic.

[Skybird]

It wasn't and my response was sarcastic.

I know, and so was mine. ;)

My way to tell you that I think it is not a nation-bashing issue when criticising the US over a practical failure of its policy. That's why I think that sarcasm was not needed, no meaningful.

Bush wanted to contain the NKs, and this has failed. Before Clinton wnated to talk to them, and that has failed as well.

There is no recipe how to stop a regime going after nukes. When it wants nukes, it wants nukes, period. Either you arrange yourself with it getting nukes, or you must crush it before it gains them.

A lesson to be learned - regarding Iran.

[Oberon]

Either you arrange yourself with it getting nukes

I think that's the direction that the US is taking now, the genie is out of the bottle and there's not a hope in hell that the US public would support a lengthy war in either Korea or Iran, so the only option left is to surround them both with as many ABMs as you can find and extend the US nuclear umbrella to local nations, making it as clear as possible that a nuclear attack on them will result in a full retaliatory response.

How well that will work remains to be seen.

[geetrue]

Iran and North Korean seem to have the same thing in mind ... :yep:

Fear!

Fear to keep you bound to listen to the lies they tell their own people.

They know that the end of their time to rule is the moment they launch a weapon of mass destruction.

The scary part is when they don't care.

You shall know them by their fruit said a very important man

[Jimbuna]

I think that's the direction that the US is taking now, the genie is out of the bottle and there's not a hope in hell that the US public would support a lengthy war in either Korea or Iran, so the only option left is to surround them both with as many ABMs as you can find and extend the US nuclear umbrella to local nations, making it as clear as possible that a nuclear attack on them will result in a full retaliatory response.

How well that will work remains to be seen.

Draw the line....inform them of the potential consequnces....when they cross the line.....ACT!!

[Skybird]

I think that's the direction that the US is taking now, the genie is out of the bottle and there's not a hope in hell that the US public would support a lengthy war in either Korea or Iran,
Not to mention: money, debts, all that.


so the only option left is to surround them both with as many ABMs as you can find and extend the US nuclear umbrella to local nations, making it as clear as possible that a nuclear attack on them will result in a full retaliatory response.
And there the circle so nicely described by Paul Kennedy in "Rise and fall of the great powers. Economy and military conflict 1500-2000" is closing. Empire forms up - maintaining it costs too much money - it wages wars and conquers, or expands in other ways - more money for maintaining the grown empire - too much to defend - no money to maintain that overstretched defence - challenge cannot be countered due to bancruptcy - collapse.

I just love that book, I think it is absolutely fantastic. The author has written a masterpiece with that.

How well that will work remains to be seen.
In detail, yes. In general trend, no surprise is to be expected.

[TLAM Strike]

...so the only option left is to surround them both with as many ABMs as you can find... Well the North Koreans love them some submarines. At one point the DPRK did get handful of Golf class SSB from the Russians to "scrap", and they operate quite a few Romeo/Ming class boats. While their one attempt at an indigenous larger submarine failed, I wouldn't put it past them trying to build some kind of missile submarine.

While the last two nuke tests were of weapons unsuitable for SL/ICBMs, if this 7 kT weapon was indeed smaller it would put some credence in to a ballistic missile delivery for a North Korean nuke.

[Jimbuna]

Well the North Koreans love them some submarines. At one point the DPRK did get handful of Golf class SSB from the Russians to "scrap", and they operate quite a few Romeo/Ming class boats. While their one attempt at an indigenous larger submarine failed, I wouldn't put it past them trying to build some kind of missile submarine.

While the last two nuke tests were of weapons unsuitable for SL/ICBMs, if this 7 kT weapon was indeed smaller it would put some credence in to a ballistic missile delivery for a North Korean nuke.

So....if your assesment is correct (which I believe it as) What in your opinion should the US/UN/West do next ?

[geetrue]

I often wondered what would've happened if japan had of had terroist in WWII ...

They tried to fire bomb the Northwest coast with seaplane attacks on the forest and they
sent submarines to destroy the panama canal, but they never made it.

What if North Korean or Iran have no intentions of their enemies back tracking a delivery device and smuggle
a small nuclear device into South Korea or Israel or LA for that matter and then demand that we play chess so to speak.

I've always heard that all you need to deliver one of these nasty things is a Piper Cub anyway.

What is going on in their little secret conference rooms? :o

[Bilge_Rat]

So....if your assesment is correct (which I believe it as) What in your opinion should the US/UN/West do next ?

not much we can do, except "containment". It may not be sexy, but it worked against Stalin in 1949-53 and Mao in 1964-72.

I presume no one is advocating an invasion to topple the regime. We all know how well "regime change" worked in Iraq and no one is going into North Korea unless the Chinese agree.

[TLAM Strike]

So....if your assesment is correct (which I believe it as) What in your opinion should the US/UN/West do next ?
There is no way this would ever happen but since you asked...

The US would forward deploy several SSBNs to Guam and inform the PRC that any military action on their part would result in launch of SLBMs from off their coast against strategic and military targets in their country.

The US would declare a TEZ around the Korean Peninsula and the USN and USAF would seed the coastal areas of North Korea with anti-ship and anti-submarine mines.

The US and the ROK would toss everything they had at the North. The DPRK's side of the DMZ would be subject to saturation bombing and shelling.

US and ROK forces would slog their way up to the Chinese border and all civilians in the DPRK would be shipped south, processed by MPs to insure they are not armed or predominant communist party officials, then would be taken to Seoul.

In Seoul they would be sent to the best restaurants, tailors, cinemas and department stores in town and told everything is on the house. The pictures of these people being shown the capital of what they believe to be a poor oppressed american puppet nation would be disseminated to every news source in the world. Then those pictures would be printed out as 8x11" and handed out, one at a time, to every representative in the UN whose nation and voted against measures aimed at the North Korean regime.

I sincerely wish we could skip right to that last step but just as in any Communist state such a thing would not be allowed. I know of stories of the most dedicated North Korean agents who were willing to kill and die in the service of the Dear Leader who have broken down and cried upon seeing how people in the South live.


not much we can do, except "containment". It may not be sexy, but it worked against Stalin in 1949-53 and Mao in 1964-72.

I presume no one is advocating an invasion to topple the regime. We all know how well "regime change" worked in Iraq and no one is going into North Korea unless the Chinese agree.
We have tried containment. It has resulted in North Korean nuclear and weapons technology being exported to such vacation spots as Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Libya and Yemen.

[Skybird]

As in case of Iran, I consider proliferation to be the major threat from NK, not so much a nuclear strike launched by NK. As we know for certain, NK indeed is delivering nuclear weapon technology to other states - unfriendly states, with links and close ties to terror organisations. That's why I said that imo "containment" already has failed.

The only thing left now is to make it clear to NK and Iran and Pakistan that any nuclear blackmailing of Western states and Israel by terror groups, and any nuclear terror attack against Western states or Israel by terror groups, automatically will lead to full nuclear retaliation against these three states, holding them accountable for their support of and nuclear arms delivery to terror groups and rogue regimes, even if the attack formally was not launched by any of these three states' territories or official military forces.

[geetrue]

Then we could feed the ones that were left alive ...

Why don't we just save a few hundred thousand lives and feed them ahead of time?

I've seen helicopters drop hay to cows stranded by water ...

Prove the heads of state are lying to them with a massive PR campaign is my best advice.

It's called preventive maintence when extending the life of electronics :yep:

[CaptainHaplo]

How to deal with the Iranian and North Korean *Nuke* Problem
- excerpt from policy discussion by potential presidential candidate CaptainHaplo.

"The solution to dealing with the both the Iranian and North Korean nuclear problem is actually quite simple. The solution is singular - but as we say in the south, would be used to "kill 2 birds with one stone". First, you deliver an ultimatum to Iran - they have 48 hours to allow ongoing and continuous unfettered access to anywhere and everywhere in the country that the IAEA wants to go. A refusal to do so will be taken as a direct and imminent threat to our national security. In addition, any government official speaking about killing Americans, or the incitement of a crowd to yell "Death to America" or whatever such nonsense, shall be construed to be a threat of war. Basically - let em know they either shape up, or we make an example out of them."

"Now we all know they won't comply. So, 49 hours later - I would do a conference call with ole Achmed-dinner-jod and that Hiya-toll-ahhhhh feller. Probably shock em outta their sandals to get a call from the new President. Anyways - I'd tell em - probably through translators cuz I don't speek Iranian and I don't think them boys speak Southern - I'd tell 'em they didn't have to spend any more of their worthless Reee'alls on their nuke program. If they want nukes, then by the grey of General Robert E. Lee's beard - they should have em!"

"Now don't ya'll look so horrified! I mean it - if they want em, I say fine. That's what I will tell em. They can have em. In fact - I will have 2 on the way - should be there in about oh.... 12 minutes or so...."

"Problem solved. Now - that happens - how do ya think Kim Jong Un is gonna be once he crawls out from UNder his bomb shelter? You can bet we won't be hearin no saber rattlin from him no more!"

-This concludes the excerpt. Please address any questions to the potential candidate himself.

[Platapus]

The big question is whether there was a significant design change from the other two almost successful devices.

[TLAM Strike]

Then we could feed the ones that were left alive ...

Why don't we just save a few hundred thousand lives and feed them ahead of time?

I've seen helicopters drop hay to cows stranded by water ...

Prove the heads of state are lying to them with a massive PR campaign is my best advice.

It's called preventive maintence when extending the life of electronics :yep:

Problem is getting the aircraft to their destinations. The DPRK has air defenses that would have made Hanoi envious.

A colleague of mine once did the math and found that if the known flak guns around Pyongyang all opened fire at the same time, after 1 minute of firing they would have sent up the equivalent weight in HE shells of an Iowa class battleship (not talking about what the guns of an Iowa put out I mean the actual ship).

[geetrue]

Problem is getting the aircraft to their destinations. The DPRK has air defenses that would have made Hanoi envious.

A colleague of mine once did the math and found that if the known flak guns around Pyongyang all opened fire at the same time, after 1 minute of firing they would have sent up the equivalent weight in HE shells of an Iowa class battleship (not talking about what the guns of an Iowa put out I mean the actual ship).


Didn't we do something like this in WWII drop pamplets?

Drop little thumb drives showing the difference in the North and the South using balloons
or better yet drop cell phones with x amount of free air time to talk to us about the differences.

Call toll free if your anybody that can help solve this problem.

[Platapus]

Didn't we do something like this in WWII drop pamplets?

Drop little thumb drives showing the difference in the North and the South using balloons
or better yet drop cell phones with x amount of free air time to talk to us about the differences.


Well how many citizens have PCs that can read the flash drive
Cell phones won't do you a lot of good unless you have cell towers and all of them are probably controlled by the government.

Besides, the NK citizens have been convinced through the generations that the US is the baddies and that the US will say anything to convince people that they are not the baddies.

Just reverse the roles. Supposed you got an E-mail proclaiming that life in the NK is actually pretty good and that most people are happy. Would you believe it? Probably not. Then why would the NK citizens believe anything we would send them?

[geetrue]

Well how many citizens have PCs that can read the flash drive
Cell phones won't do you a lot of good unless you have cell towers and all of them are probably controlled by the government.

Besides, the NK citizens have been convinced through the generations that the US is the baddies and that the US will say anything to convince people that they are not the baddies.



Your right about this Platapus ... all I'm saying is that the UN or the USA should do something, like this: http://www.damninteresting.com/ww2-america-warned-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-citizens/

[Platapus]

all I'm saying is that the UN or the USA should do something,

At times like this, I am reminded of an old dead dude named Plato when he wrote "Do not forbid that which you lack the power to prohibit"

We need to understand that the nuclear genie is out of the bottle. No longer can the Big Five keep their nuclear weapon secrets out of the cheap seats.

For us to beat our chests proclaiming that "we will not tolerate a nuclear (insert any country we don't happen to like)" makes us look like impotent buffoons when these same countries go ahead and make one.

We can not prevent a country from acquiring nuclear weapons. It is not a pleasant thought, but one I firmly believe is true.

We may, however, be able to prevent a country from wanting to acquire nuclear weapons or persuade them that they don't need to use them. But that will take a drastic change in our hegemony and hubris.

The alternative of preemptive military invasion is not personally acceptable to me. Others may not have a problem with it.

[ETR3(SS)]

About the only realistic thing we can do is call up NK and Iran and say "we have X amount of warheads with Y amount of delivery devices and you have Z amount of cities. You'll be pleased to know that X>Z. Welcome to the nuclear club!."

[reignofdeath]

So what?
Let lil' Kim produce a thousand warheads - it is up to NK and NK alone if they do it, or not. No one has the right to tell them what to do. I want to see the reaction of the US (for example) if, let's say, Switzerland says "Hey! Stop playing with fire! Dangerous! You stop now, we no like!"

The US would probably die of laughter, because they dont give a ****.
Then, why should Kimmy boy, or anyone, give a damn?

Still, I dont like the fact anyone has this kind of weapons...


A little late now, but the problem with them having them is their attitude with them. You know they re going start using them as threats to get their way, not to mention they probably won't have near good enough security protocols on them. They could be stolen and used by people who like us even less.

[reignofdeath]

At times like this, I am reminded of an old dead dude named Plato when he wrote "Do not forbid that which you lack the power to prohibit"

We need to understand that the nuclear genie is out of the bottle. No longer can the Big Five keep their nuclear weapon secrets out of the cheap seats.

For us to beat our chests proclaiming that "we will not tolerate a nuclear (insert any country we don't happen to like)" makes us look like impotent buffoons when these same countries go ahead and make one.

We can not prevent a country from acquiring nuclear weapons. It is not a pleasant thought, but one I firmly believe is true.

We may, however, be able to prevent a country from wanting to acquire nuclear weapons or persuade them that they don't need to use them. But that will take a drastic change in our hegemony and hubris.

The alternative of preemptive military invasion is not personally acceptable to me. Others may not have a problem with it.


I whole heartedly agree with this. The only problem is now, since everyones getting Nukes, weapons technology has to advance to something bigger and worse to stay ahead.. I fear what it could bring.

[frau kaleun]

The only problem is now, since everyones getting Nukes, weapons technology has to advance to something bigger and worse to stay ahead.. I fear what it could bring.

A mine-shaft gap?


Which we of course must NOT allow under any circumstances.

[Blacklight]

For us to beat our chests proclaiming that "we will not tolerate a nuclear (insert any country we don't happen to like)" makes us look like impotent buffoons when these same countries go ahead and make one.


That phrase needs to be altered a bit to read this:

"We will not tollerate a nation that threatens world stability with it's constant threats and sabre rattleing to have nuclear weapons."

The North Korean military as well as the Iranian military wouldn't think twice about using nukes against their neighbors, kicking off World War III. Their regimes are way too isolationist and both are desperate to prove that they're mighty compared to the rest of the world. Damn straight they'd use those nukes if they got them. Heck. North Korea has made it very clear that their intention is to go to war with the US and it's allies, then continuted to develop ICBM technology and now did another nuclear bomb test. Given this type of language and sabre rattling, it would be dumb just to let this country that's treatening to start WWIII just go on it's own and keep doing what it's doing.

Russia has nukes and you don't see them constantly threatening to start WWIII. A country needs a certain level of maturity and needs to play ball with the rest of the world in order to have nukes. You can't have nukes to point at and threaten your neighbor with while at the same time, trying to INSTIGATE a reason to use them. North Korea's government have made a LIFESTYLE out of trying to instigate a reason to hit South Korea and the US with nukes for years!

There's only so much the international community is going to stand for this.

[reignofdeath]

A mine-shaft gap?


Which we of course must NOT allow under any circumstances.

Please elaborate more.. Sorry but lost on this one Frau

EDIT:
@ Blacklight,

Rather than sum up what I was going to say, you took what I worded very poorly and expanded upon it. That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

Either;

A Some one is going to break and be done with the childish temper tantrums they like to throw.

or

B We all idly sit by while they decide to start WWIII.


Speaking of them being isolationist and trying to prove themselves, they don't need to (NK).
In their minds, they are the reason for existence and are the greatest nation on Earth.
I saw a documentary about how slandered everything is for their people.
History literally is re-written to say much different things over there.

All in all, like Blacklight said, the world reserves the right to tell them they can't have them because they know North Korea will find a reason to use them.

[Skybird]

Then we could feed the ones that were left alive ...

Why don't we just save a few hundred thousand lives and feed them ahead of time?

I've seen helicopters drop hay to cows stranded by water ...

Prove the heads of state are lying to them with a massive PR campaign is my best advice.

It's called preventive maintence when extending the life of electronics :yep:
That is kindly meant, but bypasses reality. The propaganda in NK is unimaginable by Western standards. Those people for the most LOVE their Führer. They know not the things you talk about, and the regime keeps it that way. Also. The Führer knows that he can pack his things and leave if he gives up his grab to military and control.

States that help to arm terrorists, and these terrorists than striking, are to be held fully responsible. That simple deterrence works. As long as the other is not irrationally suicidal and hopes for the nearing apocalypse for religious reasons.

[Oberon]

Please elaborate more.. Sorry but lost on this one Frau

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybSzoLCCX-Y

[reignofdeath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybSzoLCCX-Y

Ahh thankyou, Im too young to even remember seeing this :S

[Platapus]

About the only realistic thing we can do is call up NK and Iran and say "we have X amount of warheads with Y amount of delivery devices and you have Z amount of cities. You'll be pleased to know that X>Z. Welcome to the nuclear club!."

That is exactly what needs to be done. No histrionics. No rhetoric.

Miss Smith, please take a letter:

"KJU, we understand that you have nuclear weapon capability. We welcome you to the "nuclear club". As a member of the nuclear club, you are a potential adversary. As such we have reprogrammed enough of our nuclear arsenal to completely destroy your country. If your country uses a nuclear weapon in a first strike capacity, we will destroy your country. This is the same promise we make to any country that develops nuclear weapons."

Miss Smith, please send a copy to Israel. :)

[Platapus]

I whole heartedly agree with this. The only problem is now, since everyones getting Nukes, weapons technology has to advance to something bigger and worse to stay ahead.. I fear what it could bring.

Isomers. If (and that is a large snarly if) we could perfect it, it may make nuclear weapons obsolete.

[Platapus]

That phrase needs to be altered a bit to read this:

"We will not tollerate a nation that threatens world stability with it's constant threats and sabre rattleing to have nuclear weapons."


Ya might want to rethink that rewrite. With the number of times the US threatens regime change and the number of countries we have invaded to change governments, perhaps this rewrite could hit a little too close to home.

I have not heard anything from North Korea about them wanting to invade the US or force a regime change in the US. What I hear is a country (rightfully) concerned with the US (or allies) invading them.

When it comes to the rattling of sabres, the US is right up there with many other countries. Or do we move carrier groups to give the sailors a new liberty port?

[reignofdeath]

Ya might want to rethink that rewrite. With the number of times the US threatens regime change and the number of countries we have invaded to change governments, perhaps this rewrite could hit a little too close to home.

I have not heard anything from North Korea about them wanting to invade the US or force a regime change in the US. What I hear is a country (rightfully) concerned with the US (or allies) invading them.

When it comes to the rattling of sabres, the US is right up there with many other countries. Or do we move carrier groups to give the sailors a new liberty port?

Technically, we move carrier groups in defense of the open seas. And to maintain foward operations in case anything happens. Its called maritime pre positioning. We're here so that if something happens, our spear hits first, or at least as close behind theirs as we can get.

And could you link me to something informational about isomers?? I have not heard of these before.

[Wolferz]

Carrier groups are moved to provide addtional ports of call for liberty.

It prevents false advertising in regard to their see the world ads.:up:

The ads would not be effective if the slogan was truthful...
Join the navy and see the... oceans.
Uhh I can see it fine from right here on the beach.

[Skybird]

The ports-of-call-for-liberty navy has just delayed the moving of a carrier group to the gulf - due to debt issues.

Money is what enables to threaten or to wage war - or not.

And sometimes, wars launched have nothing to do with liberty at all, but only with pure economic own interest one hopes to gain by that, like Iraq for example. Or mercenaries send by Western and Chinese corporations, intervening in Africa to secure access to resources for their clients, corporations. The choosiness by which Western government sometimes sided with or against African governments in the past decades when there was a new genocide, a new massacre, a new rebellion happening, speaks volumes.

[geetrue]

The ports-of-call-for-liberty navy has just delayed the moving of a carrier group to the gulf - due to debt issues.



That was just the cover story ... the rest of the story has not yet been revealed