Britain's PM faces gay marriage revolt as plots swirl

[Gerald]

(Reuters) - British Prime Minister David Cameron's ruling Conservative party split in two on Tuesday over his plans to legalize gay marriage, a move that many of his own lawmakers said was wrong, not a priority for the public, and unnecessarily divisive.

Many Conservative MPs stood up in parliament to denounce the legislation ahead of a vote in which up to half of Cameron's 303 lawmakers are expected to reject the measure on moral and religious grounds, threatening a corrosive legacy of bitterness.

It was getting into "Alice in Wonderland territory" for any government to come along and rewrite the rules of marriage, Conservative lawmaker Roger Gale told parliament, echoing the views of many in his own party.

"This is not evolution, it's revolution," added Edward Leigh, another Conservative member of parliament, saying marriage was "by its nature a heterosexual union".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/05/us-britain-cameron-idUSBRE9140082013020


Note: Tue Feb 5, 2013 11:40am EST

[Cybermat47]

I see marriage as a union between two people who love each other, not a man and a woman.

[HundertzehnGustav]

marriage for hetero only here.

marriage,
from my POV is a religious thing.
and IMO religion stinks and is creepy.
maybe IMO marriage stinks and is creepy too.:hmmm:
dunno yet, have not tried, and most likely never will.:cool:

officially living together,
for reasons that have nothing to do with religion (PACS) but only to represent an union of homosexuals, is okay with me.
They share a bed, a house, a shower, give them similar tax cuts etc than normal [and i stand by that word] people get when living together and forming a Household.



where i see trouble up ahead is adopting and somehow having children...
There the poo hits the fan... "i got two daddies and my biological mother"
i do not see that end well for the Kids. Not at all.

[Tribesman]

marriage for hetero only here.

marriage,
from my POV is a religious thing.


Why?

[HundertzehnGustav]

do not really know, not in a sense where i can put my Finger on a paragraph or an article.

i guess marriage was done by the church, at the church back in the old times, and not at the town hall / mairie / rathaus.
Therefor Marriage, even though today done in both variants; the official ceremoniy and the optional religious ceremony if desired has, to my mind, its roots in religion.

[Tribesman]

Gustav, you have it backwards.
If you trawl back to the last major gay marriage topic Haplo kindly produced a link which unfortunately for him destroyed that line of arguement
The early church in rome started getting in on the marriage business which was a civil/governmental matter.
At the end of the day marriage is what it always has been, simply a business contract.

[kranz]

I see marriage as a union between two people who love each other, not a man and a woman.
Why do you restrict marriage to a union between people?
I love my cat. Every morning he comes to me and rubs at my legs. When I show him my fist, he hits it with his head. He allows being scratched on his belly.
According to cat experts it is a symbol of devotion and affection.
Why can't I marry my cat then?

Dear mods: please pay more attention to posts such as the one by user: Cybermat47 because they have deeply hurt my feelings.

[frau kaleun]

Why do you restrict marriage to a union between people?
I love my cat. Every morning he comes to me and rubs at my legs. When I show him my fist, he hits it with his head. He allows being scratched on his belly.
According to cat experts it is a symbol of devotion and affection.
Why can't I marry my cat then?

In the event that you are actually being serious here - because your cat cannot legally consent to take part in such a union, in the same way that a child or a lump of coal or a blow-up doll cannot legally consent to it. Another adult human, regardless of sex, can.

[Herr-Berbunch]

In the event that you are actually being serious here . . .

I don't think he is, and I'm hoping not, but a good response - I would've just shouted names! :up:

[Skybird]

Do I get special rights and a tax refund for having blond hair, please? I contribute a lot of important stuff to the community and do it a great social service with my blond hair, for which I deserve some kind of privileged status and social recognition, I think.

Same rights for singles! Same rights for blonds! Equality for blond singles! I assume living together with my ficus still gets socially discriminated and banned from formal recognition of qualifying for marriage?

Gardeners of all nations, unite! Against inequality, against discrimination, against antisocial ideas of family! Marriage must be green!

:yeah: Blond Pride! :yep:

[Takeda Shingen]

Do I get special rights and a tax refund for having blond hair, please? I contribute a lot of important stuff to the community and do it a great social service with my blond hair, for which I deserve some kind of privileged status and social recognition, I think.

No, but you do get special rights because you are hetrerosexual. Until those rights are extended to individuals not of the same orientation, your rights remain exclusive and therefore special. See Skybird, these people don't want to be treated special. They just want to be treated like you. What you are saying, and have been saying, is that homosexuals are not equal to you, and therefore do not deserve the same rights as you. You try and dress it up using vague language and endlessly long circular rants, but the message is the same.

[Armistead]

The question is, what is marriage today, it's a civil agreement because government is involved with many laws. Numerous people marry with no religious thought. I think it does come down to constitutional rights and opens a host of other issues such as polygamy. I don't see government getting out of marriage, so I think it has to support the rights of adults to marry who they love regardless of sex.

Gay marriage isn't for me, if it isn't for you, don't do it. Whatever my morals or beliefs are, they shouldn't step on the civil rights of others.

[Skybird]

No, but you do get special rights because you are hetrerosexual. Until those rights are extended to individuals not of the same orientation, your rights remain exclusive and therefore special. See Skybird, these people don't want to be treated special. They just want to be treated like you. What you are saying, and have been saying, is that homosexuals are not equal to you, and therefore do not deserve the same rights as you. You try and dress it up using vague language and endlessly long circular rants, but the message is the same.

I do not get special rights like families and hetero couples. I pay more taxes, I am excluded from more forms of tax refunds. I agree to families granted special, status, because I see the importance they have - or should have - for the community. I see the social and psychological damage done where in the West these institutions of families fail - may it be due to socialist dictatorship, may it be due to dysfunctional families. That's why I accept that I have an inferior legal status on taxes and some law issues, compared to them - they are more important than singles like me are, for the society, they contribute more to the communal interest than I do.

Point is homosexual couples contribute not one bit more to comunal interest than I do. So why should they be given special status over singles like me, equalling them with the status of families? They cannot justify that. The question wether they live together or not, simply is unimportant and uninteresting for everybody else. Their homosexuality does not make them any special. Different: yes. Better, special: no.

Homosexcual couples do not contribute anythjing more to the community than singles do, or friends, or working colleagues. Being gay/lesbian, is no accomplishement of whatver a kind. Like I do not deserve specia,l recongition for having blind hair, they do not deserve special recognition for being homosexual. If I claim special rights due to my white skin coklour, I get called a racist, a white supremacist. If a gay claims spoecial riughts becasue of his genetic marks that make him gay -t at shou,.d not be anything else but sexcuall discmrination against non-gays? Hardly.

I am not making a big fuss about gays or lesbians. I never did. It just doesn't bother me, as long as they do not make a big show of their gayness. It's just that right this normality and equal treatment is not good enough - they want be treated with special treatment and call that normality, they want to stageact they are family and as if they are of the same importance for the community like families are. Special rights that Singles are not given.

Well, here is the news: gay couples living together are of zero interest and importance for the culture and social community. Or it is not more important than the question whether or not I own a dog or not. Are dog owners so important that they should be given special protective status by the state? Hardly. Two colleagues going to cinema after work? No. A pedestrian and a bus driver sharing some words at the traffic light? No. Families? ABSOLUTELY.

Several years ago, on a party given by a former colleague, a gay couple introduced itself to me, people I did not know. Fine with me, I listened. They not just introduced themselves as "eingetragene Lebenspartner", as it is called here, but immediately - and unasked - started to explain how special it is to live their gayness open and to be living in this partnership and how wonderful and special and Oh and Boah and Wowh. That was what started to piss me in no time, and so I cut them off by asking them whom of the two I should call Mr. and whom I should call Mrs. That did not make them my friends, but it made them two people who turned their backs on me immediately, snapping. Which left me as a happy man.

Normality that is just acted and practiced without thinking about it, is normality. Normality that is constantly reminded of, talked of, praised, thanked for, demanded - is no normality. It is a mess.

[Takeda Shingen]

I do not get special rights like families and hetero couples.

Can you marry? Can they marry? If the answer to both is not 'yes', then one group's rights are special. It's as simple as that. Everything else you wrote is simply dressing trying to dance around that fact.

[AVGWarhawk]

At the end of the day marriage is what it always has been, simply a business contract.

In some respects. :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Dear mods: please pay more attention to posts such as the one by user: Cybermat47 because they have deeply hurt my feelings.

Moderators can not moderate feelings. Hurt or otherwise. Sorry.

[kranz]

In the event that you are actually being serious here

i've been serious 1189 times so far.

because your cat cannot legally consent to take part in such a union,

a bad law needs to be banned. period. and one more period. period.

a child

listen lady, i'm not a child molester (yet) :03:

or a lump of coal

my father works in a coal mine. so what?


or a blow-up doll

you've been spying on me, haven't you?

sex
i bet you are a fine woman but sorry - it's too early for me.

I don't think he is
very bad trolling.
0/10

Moderators can not
OALD's impotence meaning 1 or 2?

[Oberon]

Cupcakes.


Next question?

[frau kaleun]

Cupcakes.


Next question?

Can I have ice cream with my cupcake?

Oh, and my husband Bertram would like a herring with his, on account of he's a penguin. I decided it was just too hard getting a cat into a tuxedo for the wedding and Bertram came pre-tuxed.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Can I have ice cream with my cupcake?

Oh, and my husband Bertram would like a herring with his, on account of he's a penguin. I decided it was just too hard getting a cat into a tuxedo for the wedding and Bertram came pre-tuxed.

Hey lady, I'm ready for you now, if you'll still have me?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2nqm3xYyk1r9uia2o1_500.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

http://writerowl.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/train-derail.jpg

[Herr-Berbunch]

^ That was ages ago! Keep up. :)

[frau kaleun]

Wait - is he saying that when someone posts a funny cat picture on the Innertoobz, that's the point at which it goes off the rails?

[AVGWarhawk]

Wait - is he saying that when someone posts a funny cat picture on the Innertoobz, that's the point at which it goes off the rails?

The thread is not about cat marriage or is it? :hmmm: However, if it was a British cat it would be ok.

[frau kaleun]

The thread is not about cat marriage or is it? :hmmm: However, if it was a British cat it would be ok.

It is a long established fact that everything on the internet is about funny cat pictures, even if this does not appear to be the case at first glance. Thus any discussion that does not lead to the posting of a funny cat picture can be said to be off-topic until such a posting occurs. :yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FgLmTflWYlI/T8oQYsc9nDI/AAAAAAAAD_w/EunAnbdlYm0/s1600/funny+cats-1.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

HITLER!

Sorry. I just had to.

[AVGWarhawk]

HITLER!

Sorry. I just had to.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls7kwt4v6w1qecsaao1_400.jpg

[frau kaleun]

Funny cat pictures... check.
Hitler reference... check.
Let's see now, what are we still missing?

:hmm2:

Oh. Right.


http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4046/zombiebacon.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

Let me see if I have it right yet. Somebody married their cat right there on the tracks, causing the train wreck. Then Hitler married his zombie bacon, and everybody had a gay old time.

Am I close?

[AVGWarhawk]

Nailed it.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The thread is not about cat marriage or is it? :hmmm: However, if it was a gay British cat it would be ok.

Fixed, to bring it back on topic. Go me! :woot:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Gustav, you have it backwards.
If you trawl back to the last major gay marriage topic Haplo kindly produced a link which unfortunately for him destroyed that line of arguement
The early church in rome started getting in on the marriage business which was a civil/governmental matter.
At the end of the day marriage is what it always has been, simply a business contract.


That is what a history book says.
I still associate marriage with church and religion though...
cannot help that feeling.:)

[HundertzehnGustav]

In the event that you are actually being serious here - because your cat cannot legally consent to take part in such a union, in the same way that a child or a lump of coal or a blow-up doll cannot legally consent to it. Another adult human, regardless of sex, can.

But many other adults should not have the right to consent for lack of intelligence :O::haha:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Why do you restrict marriage to a union between people?
I love my cat. Every morning he comes to me and rubs at my legs. When I show him my fist, he hits it with his head. He allows being scratched on his belly.
According to cat experts it is a symbol of devotion and affection.
Why can't I marry my cat then?

Dear mods: please pay more attention to posts such as the one by user: Cybermat47 because they have deeply hurt my feelings.

So i am married to my PC.
wherevrr i go i carry a USB stick. Ring.
whenever i come home, he is there for me.
he warms my house and keeps me laughing. feeds me ridles and lets me have this AHA moment once in a while.

humans do not always do that for me.


what about mah DOG. warms my feet and greets me every day - morning noon and night.. follows me round wherever i go and has so far been a faithful companion.

[Oberon]

That is what a history book says.
I still associate marriage with church and religion though...
cannot help that feeling.:)

I got married at a golf club...and I don't even play golf! :doh:

[Jimbuna]

I got married at a golf club...and I don't even play golf! :doh:

I guess she brought the correct clubs with her then :)

[Oberon]

I guess she brought the correct clubs with her then :)

:yep:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWZRp9GY7EkDJwf-VJmtz3tUDOh5AkHo7aFVpRokwz1x3MlMiAZQ

[mookiemookie]

I am completely against changing the definition of marriage. That is why I am expecting goats, cows and a dowry from my fiancee's family.

[Jimbuna]

:yep:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWZRp9GY7EkDJwf-VJmtz3tUDOh5AkHo7aFVpRokwz1x3MlMiAZQ

Aye, they're the correct type :)

[Skybird]

To illustrate what insane absurdity the hystery about gay rights has reached, just a small detail from Germany: this christmas season, in Cologne they have had the first "gay christmas market".

:06: :06: :06:

What the holy punky freakiness should that be - a gay christmas market? And what has the one to do with the other, Christmas with gay policy? Reinventing the christmas story? Mary'S immaculate conception because Joseph was gay and got no erection when laying down with a woman? Baby Jesus - a gay? Gay Santa Claus? Or Herodes' pogrom against the Jews - a gay-hating mass murder trying to kill gay babies?

We have voices in Germany that seriously want children and teens being encouraged by school to make lesbian and gay experiences - not encouraging them would violate the public schools' order to give unbiased and undiscriminating education to young people on everything.

Some - I say again: not all, but some - go even one step further. Some want quotas - quotas! - of gay and lesbian people in the population being met. So and so many people have to be gay, such and such a huge proportion of the population should be educated to become lesbian. That would foster equal rights, and battle against discriminating of gays, so the argument. Girls and boys, so the false and unproven claim, have no sexual identities anyway, but are sexual neuters, and can be formed according to statistic needs. Well, medicine and psychology know that better, and since long time now.

HOW MUCH MORE INSANE COULD IT BECOME, HOW MUCH MORE SICK, ROTTEN, DUMB, RETARDED, INHUMANE - STUPID...???

Homosexuality is debated and discussed since many years day in, day out, and nobody - except bad bad boys like me - dare to express an opinion of anger and disgust over this omnipresence of the theme in public discussion. Still - they claim that there is too little debate about it. :dead: :/\\!! :timeout: Reminds of the noise that Islam is making : also being talked about day in and day out - and still claiming to be ignored and marginalised.

Heck, the one as well as the other is OMNIPRESENT!

It's political correctness hysteria. Plain and simple this: hysteria. Dear Western people, you are too well off, and you spend your time with caring for luxury problems and blowing up mosquitos to the size of elephants.

And the whole project is massively ideology-driven: left-leaning ideology, to be clear on that. Devaluing and ridiculing families, so that women go into factories and cheap wages jobs to produce tax income for the state (German SPD's Andrea Nahles have even said that in relatively clear words just short time ago - again), and the children at the age of less than one year kept in kindergardens, obligatory, so that they can get drilled and brainwashed with politically wanted socialist collectivistic spirit from early childhood on. Destruction of the male and female characteristics by gender-engineering and denying any differences (ignoring loads and loads of hard, solid scientific evidence proving how wrong and unproven genderistic claims are and how much damage they do in children), all people not being equal by biology - but that being ignored and these tabula rasa-people treated as if they were a tabula rasa indeed, and being made equal by force - by socialist ideology, pressed into equality in a uniform meaning of the term. And, no wonder, the EU is forerunning in this, too, not just the 1968-German rev olluers and the dilletantic reform pedagocis and the lefties and the feminists. Its a huge and powerful and unscrupulous alliance that has formed up there, and it wants the ultimate power and it does not take No as an answer.

Equality of men and women, equal rights - and making people equal in a collectivistic, totalitarian understanding of uniformity - that are two very different things. The latter is also about total exchangeability of everybody, and denial of individuality, even a biological predetermine sexual identity. You do not believe that? Do some reading on the role of women in the society of the USSR, especially the early one, and the Third Reich. It should spring into your eyes.

The destruction of the respectability of family and "mother" is precondition for all that, becasue an intact family and totalitarian claims for a superstate'S collective control do not go well together. That is the reason why mothers's role is being ridiculed these days, and why it is described as something of less or no value compared to work in a job, as if their work to form a family a home and to give children a place to return to after school, a safe haven for a good childhood, is only good enough to be laughed about and ridiculed, and any political attempt to encourage such mothers' self-chosen role and aid it financially is met with vitriolic cynism and mocking laughter, and hurting offences. The biggest hate feminists express for women that refuse to submit to the role design feminists have for "real women".

And that is the reason why the same social circles and politicians are supporting the equality of "gay marriage" - it damages the respectability and specially protected status of families by marginalising and deleting the constitutional protection and support for families. Socialists do not want mothers and fathers caring for children. The party should care for the drill of children. To ensure they become good Junge Pioniere, fundaments of the party's and the ideology's future power.

We have been there. We have seen it all. It was not good, never. And it always led to breakdown of whole societies, often at the cost of massive bloodshed and/or destruction of the world around. The rights of gays, ignored or campaigned for - they are just a strawman's argument, sometimes making them serve as scapegoats, sometimes turning them into propaganda strawmen. But it is about much more and different than gay rights. In reality it is about the establishing of the totalitarian socialist superstate. I admit one needs to look beyond the surface of the gay debate to see this, and needs to link many other things together - radical feminism, mobbing of male values, gender-enmgineering, state-control over already the youngest children. When one is looking at how the european states and parties shift more and more to the left and how the EU interferes more and more with peopleS' lives, and how we all get more and more overregulated by a bureaucratic regime rooted in Brussel, the conclusion is quite self-recommending.

[Takeda Shingen]

I am completely against changing the definition of marriage. That is why I am expecting goats, cows and a dowry from my fiancee's family.

How is your fiancee handling the other wives and concubines? Oh, wait, that's right she doesn't get a say in the matter.

[mookiemookie]

How is your fiancee handling the other wives and concubines? Oh, wait, that's right she doesn't get a say in the matter.

Of course she doesn't. My property doesn't get a say in what I do.

[AVGWarhawk]

Of course she doesn't. My property doesn't get a say in what I do.

Good luck with that.....

[Takeda Shingen]

Of course she doesn't. My property doesn't get a say in what I do.

Now you're thinking like a citizen, Citizen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Ce4NEvuhI

[mookiemookie]

OWB was hilarious. Frustrating, but hilarious too.

[Tchocky]

Skybird, do you actually believe this kind of stuff or are you playing a very long trolling game?

If it's the second, hats off.

To illustrate what insane absurdity the hystery about gay rights has reached, just a small detail from Germany: this christmas season, in Cologne they have had the first "gay christmas market".

:06: :06: :06:

What the holy punky freakiness should that be - a gay christmas market? And what has the one to do with the other, Christmas with gay policy?

About as much as markets have to do with Christmas, actually.

Reinventing the christmas story? The Christmas story of the Gluhwein stall of Bethlehem?

Mary'S immaculate conception because Joseph was gay and got no erection when laying down with a woman? If you're going to bang on about defending a traditional religious Christmas at least get your religion correct. Mary's conception was Immaculate, as in without stain of original sin, not the conception of Jesus.

Or Herodes' pogrom against the Jews - a gay-hating mass murder trying to kill gay babies? Everybody knows gays have gay babies. It's simple biology.

Some - I say again: not all, but some - go even one step further. Some want quotas - quotas! - of gay and lesbian people in the population being met. So and so many people have to be gay, such and such a huge proportion of the population should be educated to become lesbian. That would foster equal rights, and battle against discriminating of gays, so the argument. Girls and boys, so the false and unproven claim, have no sexual identities anyway, but are sexual neuters, and can be formed according to statistic needs. Well, medicine and psychology know that better, and since long time now. Fox News and MSNBC like to lead into disingenous questions with "some people are saying" and that's what you are doing here. Sources for this idiocy please.

It's political correctness hysteria. Plain and simple this: hysteria. Dear Western people, you are too well off, and you spend your time with caring for luxury problems and blowing up mosquitos to the size of elephants.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_among_LGBT_youth

Luxury indeed.

[Jimbuna]

Of course she doesn't. My property doesn't get a say in what I do.

I prefer the surprise the mail order bride system can bring you...

http://listverse.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/mail-order-brides2.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=mail+order+bride+funny&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=H3bJKZlQEpNcnM&tbnid=jnmX2mSXzNmw7M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Flistverse.com%2F2010%2F02%2F17%2F top-10-facts-about-mail-order-brides%2F&ei=680SUbmXDsqs0QWTv4HQAQ&bvm=bv.41934586,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNGTEa55M3wVN_AZQpuIMmAyVwRfzQ&ust=1360273187677196)

[Mork_417]

She looks happy. :up: