Europe incapable, America unwilling

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-global-leadership-vacuum-europe-incapable-america-unwilling-a-880945.html

I dare to predict that if the shale gas boom in the USA really ignites to its full projected potential, the US may dare to even move out of the Middle East labyrinth. Bad news for Israel, probably, and for Europe as well, needing to face a nuclear armed Iran by itself then.

Still financial ties remain. The US cannot survive without huge amounts of foreign money streaming into its capital markets to maintain its financial system, which in principle is no financial system but a debt system. This could only be avoided by the US if willing a real financial reform like the ones Europe has seen in the past. And that again maybe would work in the US - but at the cost of turning the rest of the world - America's debtors - to ruins. For China, such a loss of its investments into the American money patient easily could mean a reason to indeed wage kind of a war. But maybe America looses interest in the far east as well once its energy system has become fully autark?

However, state of things is that said things are a wakeup-call to Europe. And I am quite confident that nobody in Europe will care to listen. Especially not in Germany. We are busy with our social-cultural hobbies and our multicultural obsessions, you see, you have to excuse us for a couple of decades. History will have to wait for us.

Hallo - history, you hear us...?

Hallo...? Anyone there? We are here! Wait for us!

Zzzzz. It seems our relation with history also isn't anymore what it used to be.

[Catfish]

Yeah right, shale oil, oil/tar sands and reentries into emptied oil fields.

I foresee a beautiful future for oil, in the US :haha:

[STEED]

I hear you can see America's shale gas from orbit! :o

Hell of a flame! :huh:

[Skybird]

Yeah right, shale oil, oil/tar sands and reentries into emptied oil fields.

I foresee a beautiful future for oil, in the US :haha:

Maybe you haven't heard the shot. It is not theory - the boom has already lifted off, and now is in steep climb. The socalled energy revolution in the US is not a theory about a possible future - it actually is already happening. OPEC hates it. Environmentalists hate it. Russia hates it. And them alltogether try to ignore it - but that is useless.

So much for this naive-infantile, typically German, hysteric, extremely expensive and economy- and industry-crippling, social peace-endangering idea about a German "Energiewende". :haha: They can turn it into an EU-wide law, fi they want, it still will not function. Not better than their precious, cleverly-thought out, well-intended, Europe-sets-a-shining-example-for-all-others-to-follow carbon trading scheme. :har: If you replace realism with ideology and daydreaming then ideology is what you deal with and daydreams is what you get. :up:

Note: I am aware of the problem of environmental consequences from ongoing, now even spiking consummation of fossile fuels. America will pay an environmental price for using its shale oil reservoir, and the global climate will, too. It's just that I am not young enough anymore to believe that they will let this option pass by unused. They have started to dig into this new option, and deep, and with immense investments. Stop them if you can. I waste not one penny on betting for your chances. I also think that this talking about limiting global warming, is totally in vain, for it already is beyond the tipping point and cannot be bureaucratically "limited" anymore. Physical self-dynamic of the process. Currently, the oceans absorb a good amount of the warmth,. that is why climate temperatures since years are stagnating while the poles are thawing and the oceans get warmer constantly. The ocean's capacity to store warmth below atmosphere temperature levels are limited however, even if they are the biggest accumulator for warmth on this planet, more than the atmosphere up until 200 kilometers. And the thawing of the permafrost areas and the destabilizing of giant methane-hydrate reservoirs there and in the deep sea also will make things very interesting.

But this will not stop America from using its shale oil reserves. I'm realist - neither pessimistic nor optimistic, neither triumphant nor anything else. Realist is what I am, no matter whether in climb or fall. As I see it, energy-situation will see a short-termed and mid-term ease (thinking of several decades) - but the net effect of our doing in the final end presenting an even higher bill. That's how we humans tick, I cannot help it: short-sighted, not thinking beyond a certain timeframe, caring more for our interest and less for that of others, or our children's children after we are gone. Call it bad, call it good, call it light or shadow - that's what we are like: that is what being human is by design. And maybe that design is not fit enough for ongoing evolutionary survival. Could be, I don't know for sure.

[Wolferz]

:03:

Shale oil is a drop in the bucket next to the natural gas reserves under America. Natural gas can power everything and they're going to frack it out of the ground no matter who gives a frack about the environmental consequences. The Rocky Mountains have a limitless supply of oil trapped in shale that the environmental folks will never allow to be utilized.
There's really no need with a new technology that surfaced not too long ago that can convert nearly any carbon based material into a sweeter crude oil than can be drilled for. You don't hear the media crowing about it because big oil will keep it muffled, stifled and generally off the radar.

At present, The test plant for this device is producing oil from Turkey offal in Illinois. But it will work on much more than Turkey guts. Ground up hard plastics is one of a myriad of resources to feed into this thing that was developed in Phladelphia.
There is also natural gas that can be tapped from rotting garbage in land fills. A synthetic rubber plant in Louisville, Ky is running it's operation via this method. There are many many ways to power modern life that get pushed aside in favor of big oil money.
We have the technology in development that can make one lane on a road charge the batteries in an electric car just by driving over it. A Norwegian inventor has invented bioluminescent paint that can be used as lane markings on roads. Eliminating the need for the expensive infrastructure of street lights. This stuff charges itself with sunlight and releases the energy in the form of light for fourteen hours. Driving will look like an old video game.:o

[AVGWarhawk]

Wolferz is right. We are full of gas. No pun intended. As far as pulling out and world market collapse, the folks who put it all together to make money have little interest in pulling out.

[Jimbuna]

Wolferz is right. We are full of gas. No pun intended. As far as pulling out and world market collapse, the folks who put it all together to make money have little interest in pulling out.

"No pun intended"

Why not? :O:

[HundertzehnGustav]

That's how we humans tick, I cannot help it: short-sighted, not thinking beyond a certain timeframe, caring more for our interest and less for that of others, or our children's children after we are gone. Call it bad, call it good, call it light or shadow - that's what we are like: that is what being human is by design. And maybe that design is not fit enough for ongoing evolutionary survival. Could be, I don't know for sure.

Thank you.
I just realized i am not alone with my point of View.

[u crank]

As I see it, energy-situation will see a short-termed and mid-term ease (thinking of several decades) - but the net effect of our doing in the final end presenting an even higher bill. That's how we humans tick, I cannot help it: short-sighted, not thinking beyond a certain timeframe, caring more for our interest and less for that of others, or our children's children after we are gone. Call it bad, call it good, call it light or shadow - that's what we are like: that is what being human is by design. And maybe that design is not fit enough for ongoing evolutionary survival. Could be, I don't know for sure.

It's not how we humans tick. It's how the big oil executives tick. It's money in the bank. Put your self in their shoes. And follow the money.

[Madox58]

How ever it plays at this point there's one thing that will play out sooner or later.
We get knocked back to pre-oil boom state.
Millions or billions will die due to a lack of simple skills or unwillingness to leave big cities.
That's how it's played out for Eons.
What would make anyone think things change?
The cause of a disaster to people may change but it always happens.
Always will.

[Skybird]

It's not how we humans tick. It's how the big oil executives tick. It's money in the bank. Put your self in their shoes. And follow the money.
The executives' power comes from the willingness of the people. There is not just shepards. There is also sheep.

[u crank]

The executives' power comes from the willingness of the people. There is not just shepards. There is also sheep.

I would disagree. The executives' power comes from the helpless position of the people/sheep. Attempting to change the position of major corporations to suit the real needs and best interests of the people is a almost hopeless task. Despite what these people continually say about 'our' interests and well being, their primary concern is profit. If their profit and our concerns happen to coincide then they will do it. Other wise it's business as usual.

Currently the big oil companys are tell us of all the wonderful benefits of tar sand oil extraction. Here in Atlantic Canada a significant number of people are working in the Fort McMurray Alberta oil patch. And for very high wages. My daughter's boyfriend is making $900.00 a DAY as a construction foreman on a new site south of Fort McMurray. This is a clear indication of the kind of money big oil is willing to spend. There are 5000 workers on this site and it is still under construction. Eventually it will be a refinery and others are being planned.

We are told it is all good. Jobs, home grown source of energy, less dependency on mid east oil etc.

Now I'm all for progress and good economic conditions. Don't let me stand in the way of peoples future, but some how I feel this is not good for the human species. What do you think?



http://goodcanadiankid.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2010-03-01-TarSandsDestruction_Web.jpg

[Skybird]

I say nothing, but point at the obvious:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-gas-extraction-methods-alter-global-balance-of-power-a-880546.html

Is's not about how I wish things would be. It is about how they are, and the tendency that indicates where they go. I said that clearly before.

That ^. and my current sig, a quote which completely goes like this: "The money power preys upon the nation in time of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the republic is destroyed."

I also point at historic examples that show by the huge numbers that people and cultures very often intentionally deicde for the path leading them to their doom - for perceived reasonable and rational reasons:

http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Societies-Succeed-Revised-Edition/dp/0143117009/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1359841741&sr=8-3&keywords=jared+diamond

What I desire, has little to do with where things are going.

[u crank]

Is's not about how I wish things would be. It is about how they are, and the tendency that indicates where they go. I said that clearly before.

I guess on that point we agree.

The SPIEGEL link is very interesting and clearly points to where we are going. The energy corporations will not rest until every bit of fossil fuel has been extracted from the earth. I should qualify that. As long as it is profitable.

Hydraulic fracturing [fracking] is the new method to search for and extract natural gas from deep below the surface. Like tar sand recovery, it does not seem like a very environmentally sound method. Injecting chemicals into the earth under pressure is asking for trouble. But the spin put on this, as the article says, is all good. A bright future. With rising energy costs and dwindling supplies it will be an easy sell.

"The money power preys upon the nation in time of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the republic is destroyed."

This is nothing new. Money has always been the driving force that decides what happens in this world. I'm a realist but I don't think it will ever go too far. The 'money' knows that chaos and anarchy are not profitable. What is profitable is perceived democracy and a steady growth rate. And war is only good if you win or at least give the perception of winning.

I also point at historic examples that show by the huge numbers that people and cultures very often intentionally deicde for the path leading them to their doom - for perceived reasonable and rational reasons:


Agreed.

What I desire, has little to do with where things are going.

Again, agreed.

[Jimbuna]

Carry on.

[Skybird]

On the "money not going too far", I recommend this little book (330 pages in young language, black humoured and sometimes aggressive - which the matter deserves well, but very substantial information by two insiders), in German. It is a bestseller over here. I finished it last November, within one week

http://www.amazon.de/Der-größte-Raubzug-Geschichte-Fleißigen/dp/382882949X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359847573&sr=8-1

Two days ago, there was this interview with the authors:
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2013/02/01/21664/

When you are done reading it, you will feel ready to massacre banks and insurers and politicians in piecework style, this much I can tell you.

Money not going too far?! It already is beyond that. Never before has there been so many debts circulating as trading objects. Never before has there been so much money circulating. Never before have states been so depending on private banks, and have banks had states so hopelessly deep in their pockets.

The fiscal system, having entangled itself in a lethal vicious circle and being beyond any solutions, will collapse, the question to me is not if, but when. And the reason for why it will collapse, inevitably, is quite simple.

It's collapse is the solution to it, for the disease is the very system itself.

[yubba]

So why is this government hell bent on us not to be drilling ??? I from New York State escaped years ago I can't believe whats going on up there, so afraid of drilling for gas and you only get 7 shots to save your life, and the state is billions in the red.

[Skybird]

And another German piece, some days ago, on the shifting snetiments of Germans towards America, and anti-Americnaism spreading since Bush. Also showing that quite irrationally the sentiments and high expectations of Germans on Obama have not changed to four years ago.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/deutsche-fragen-deutsche-antworten-schleichende-zunahme-des-antiamerikanismus-12034804.html

The drop in pro-American trust and sympathy due to the Iraq '03war, is nothing else but dramatic. And the hail being seen in Obama, is nothing but irrational.

In other words: imo the overwhelming majority of Germans is totally disconnected from reality in their views of America. I used the word several times in recent weeks, regarding the Germans, but I indeed mean it serious: the Germans have turned into a people with hysteric obsessions.

[Platapus]

So why is this government hell bent on us not to be drilling ??? I from New York State escaped years ago I can't believe whats going on up there, so afraid of drilling for gas and you only get 7 shots to save your life, and the state is billions in the red.


Consider this.

There is a finite amount of oil in the world. There are domestic supplies and foreign supplies. From the United States' viewpoint, which supply of oil should be used up first?

It is to our strategic advantage to use "their" oil up before using "our" oil up.

When, in the future, the supplies of oil become limited, would it not be nice if the US had their own supply?

Often it is better to use the other guy's strategic resources instead of your own even though it may be more expensive.

Using cash, which can be replaced to buy a resource that can't be replaced is a wise investment.

[Catfish]

I would also think the US (like every other nation) would try to exploit resources worldwide, before being forced to go for the own (leftover) ones ?

I just wonder what this sudden hype is about ? You can "produce" (wrong of course, but 'oil speak') oil and gas by fracking and re-entry of old oil fields, and quench some more out.

If you imagine how much of that stuff is under the surface of e.g. Siberia without needing to use those expensive fracking and much more expensive getting it out of the ground, oil and gas being produced that way would be much too expensive in comparison.

But there is a reason why this has not been done before: It is too expensive, let alone talking about the allgeged quantities.

Seeing is believing - it would be good if we had not any problem of energy support using carbon hydroxides in the future.
But from a geologist and hydrocarbon industry point of view i am not convinced; it seems more than induced hype for whatever reason -