View Full Version : Surface Engagements way too easy
UrViechAlex
01-21-13, 04:08 PM
Hi everyone!
I am using the SCHLEICHFAHRT-mod (IRAI and OHII 2.0 included) and just came across another unrealistic battle outcome.
Feb. 40 - Being on the way to my designated patrol area (SW approaches) I stumbled over a GERMAN tanker right in the middle of The Channel and quickly decided to abort my mission in order to accompany that explosive little fellow.
When the sun came up we were sighted by an I-class destroyer and two Elcos. I tried a VERY optimistic longe range torpedo attack against the destroyer, missed and thought: "There go my mates on the tanker!"
Starshells came up over the seemingly doomed ship but nothing happened for quite some time. (Aren´t these guys supposed to attack enemy shipping?) Then, I came too close to the destroyer and decided to fight it out on the surface - just to see how many hits I can score before going down.
Guess what? I won!
:har:
The good thing is that he took quite a pounding (more than 50 hits, at least that seems to be quite realistic figure) the bad thing is: there was not much fire coming from it. Only one invisible automatic (!) gun from the middle of the ship fired at me, scoring pretty rarely. The four turrets did not point into my direction and there were definitely no medium-calibre splashes around my boat.
Seriously, NO WWII sub could fight it out on the surface against a destroyer. They had more and larger guns, were much more stable platforms and could absorb more damage.
Okay, a sub is harder to hit due to its small size but a single well-placed shell into the pressure hull and the story is supposed to be over...
How do you guys deal with surface engagements? Is somebody trying to fix that issue mod-wise?
Greetings from Hamburg,
Alex
I see your point,
Do you remember the class of the destroyer?
Alex, I've tried to take on a destroyer only once.... and lost. Just a little guy I know, but the outcome was as I expected.... we were sunk with all hands lost.
UrViechAlex
01-22-13, 12:43 PM
It was an I-class destroyer with four 4.7" guns - a pretty powerful armament compared to a submarine.
It was of course unwise and dangerous -my hull integrity was down to 28 % - and coming to the surfaces amongst several destroyers would be certainly deadly.
But the outcome and the lack of proper firing animations on the destroyer is damaging the atmosphere, imho.
:wah:
Especially combined with the other bug I posted last month (destroyers being unable to attack you in a port).
How long did you last against the destroyer, by the way? I always spend my points on the gun crew first, makes quite a difference in reloading time.
I am SERIOUSLY better in using the gun than in using the torps...
:D
It was an I-class destroyer with four 4.7" guns
that is weird :06:
I cannot see I class destroyers among the ones featured in stock game. As far as I can see, British destroyers are:
A class
B class
Q and R class
Town class
Tribal (Afridi) class
V and W class
V and W class
A quick research in OHII's roster gave negative results either. Which version of the game are you playing? Is it the gold edition?
Regarding the 4.7" gun, there are two of them in game. One British, the other Italian. I guess your report refers to the British one, but from its settings I cannot see anything that would prevent it from firing :hmm2:
UrViechAlex
01-23-13, 08:41 AM
Now it´s getting REALLY interesting. I come across I class destroyers pretty regularly. As mentioned in the thread I am using a BIG mod (Schleichfahrt). They obviously put a number of additionnal ship mods in there. Never thought about that.
:hmmm:
Next time I meet a lone destroyer from a different class I am going to give it another try and see what happens then...
:arrgh!:
As mentioned in the thread I am using a BIG mod (Schleichfahrt). They obviously put a number of additionnal ship mods in there. Never thought about that.
Sorry, I had missed this part of information. :oops:
Your using Schleichfahrt explains it all!
I Volodya and Rongel are currently working on this mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1935329#post1935329), aimed to fix issues like the one reported by you.
We are currently working on stock ships and equipments, but Open Horizon's and Schleifart's units are as well in our todo list :up:
Gap, just a reminder make sure you guys do the Recognition Manual too. ;)
The Enhanced RM is not up to the task with the newest ship additions.
Alex, destroyers will attack you when you're in an enemy port. Maybe not all the time or in every port, but they do. Try Scapa Flow.... that will show they do not like intruders. ;) I've just sunk 5 destroyers in Scapa Flow trying to find a Capitol ship at night. None there so far. :/\\!!
UrViechAlex
01-25-13, 09:46 AM
That sounds like a lot of necessary work. I really appreciate all this modding madness...
:D
More questions for the modding community:
1) How does traffic work? Ships appear out of nowhere in ports, stay there for a couple of days and head on to a different port? Do convoys get spawned the same way? I ask that question because I consider it not too immersing if I spend time in a harbour to reload the tubes and suddenly a ship appears right over the wreck of one I sunk two hours earlier. It does happen...
:down:
2) Do destroyers have troubles in shallow waters? If that is so - would I be possible to seriously increase the depth in and close to ports? I´ve just amassed 85k of destroyed commercial shipping in Methil and just had all the escorts lying still on my way out, yet again...
March ´40 and just reached 870k overall, what a challenge...
:hmmm:
3) We need much more small combatants! The only escorts the German navy seems to have the Type 34 destroyers. These were expensive and pretty rare FLEET destroyers! Protecting coastal waters was a job for small "Räumboote", "Vorpostenboote", armed trawlers and E-boats.
There a similar findings for the Royal Navy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairmile_B_motor_launch
These things would be suitable surface opponents for a sub, by the way. Definitely NOT destroyers...
:)
Nice weekened to everyone out there!
:rock:
Working Schnell boats would be a great mod to add to SH5. I wonder if the ones in SH3 could be ported over... even if they're only eye-candy around German ports and the German's occupied coastlines.
Gap, just a reminder make sure you guys do the Recognition Manual too. ;)
The Enhanced RM is not up to the task with the newest ship additions.
Hi Gary, good remark, do you mean TDW's SOAN?
1) How does traffic work? Ships appear out of nowhere in ports, stay there for a couple of days and head on to a different port? Do convoys get spawned the same way? I ask that question because I consider it not too immersing if I spend time in a harbour to reload the tubes and suddenly a ship appears right over the wreck of one I sunk two hours earlier. It does happen...
As far as I know there are 3 ways to spawn an unit in SH5:
- units that are spawned within a convoy: convoy can be set to gather and leave from a port on a given date, and to head to another port, where they will despawn. Convoys/task forces can be customized by setting the type of units composing them (detroyers, freighters, tankers, etc.), their nationality and their number. I am not sure if their composition can be further detailed, by assigning specific classes of ships to the, but probably yes.
- generic traffic. They are spawning randomly, or at least I think so. Moreover, I suppose they are assigned to a port/base (but again I am not sure about it) though they don't have a special route to follow . What I know for sure is that generic trafic can be restricted to some types of units (e.g. tugboats, small freighters, patrol boats and planes, etc.).
- units which are spawned "ad hoc". Their spawning/despawning in game can be triggered by several events. Their spawning area can be set in a circle from another unit (like our U-boat) or from a given point, and they can be given a strict route to follow.
About your question on units respawning just after being sunk/destroyed, I have already read about this issue, but I am not sure which of the above traffic types are affected by it.
You might want to wait for Trevally to give a definitive answer :yep:
2) Do destroyers have troubles in shallow waters? If that is so - would I be possible to seriously increase the depth in and close to ports? I´ve just amassed 85k of destroyed commercial shipping in Methil and just had all the escorts lying still on my way out, yet again...
March ´40 and just reached 870k overall, what a challenge...
:hmmm:
Yes, this is a known problem. IIRC, one of the latest IRAI versions has partly obviated it, but it still remains. Increasing coastal depth would probably help, nonetheless it would be a lot of work :-?
3) We need much more small combatants! The only escorts the German navy seems to have the Type 34 destroyers. These were expensive and pretty rare FLEET destroyers! Protecting coastal waters was a job for small "Räumboote", "Vorpostenboote", armed trawlers and E-boats.
There a similar findings for the Royal Navy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairmile_B_motor_launch
These things would be suitable surface opponents for a sub, by the way. Definitely NOT destroyers...
:)
There are still lot of SHIII/IV units waiting to be ported to SH5. Most of the modders who started importing units are now gone, or busy on other projects. Nonetheless, you can alway try submitting to forum's attention any existing unit you think is worth being inported, or even better you attempt import it yourself. I am sure you will get all the required help here :up:
Nice weekened to everyone out there!
:rock:
You too, Alex :salute:
Hi Gary, good remark, do you mean TDW's SOAN?
I don't think I've seen that one fom TDW.
I'm serious Gap, Schnell boats are needed in SH5. It just looks funny not seeing them like we did in SH3. I can't remember if GWX had them or not... but I think they were in that super mod. I do know there was a mod for them in SH3... somewhere.
I don't think I've seen that one fom TDW.
So, what it the problem? SOAN, ERM or what?
I'm serious Gap, Schnell boats are needed in SH5. It just looks funny not seeing them like we did in SH3. I can't remember if GWX had them or not... but I think they were in that super mod. I do know there was a mod for them in SH3... somewhere.
You are trying to force an open door, mate. Find those ships and we will discuss about them again ;) :D
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