My fun for a day.

[Armistead]

I do a lot of metal detecting. I was detecting an old burned out school that is now posted private property, with permission of course. Next to the school is a small public park, that doesn't allow detecting.

As I came around the school in view of the park, about 75 yards away were two young girls, guessing age 8 playing. I saw no adults in sight, cept one man walking a dog that went out of site. Eventually these two girls wondered towards me, curious what I was doing. I asked them where their parents were, one stated.."mommy went to Burger King. No one else was around and I don't like being alone with children. I told them nicely to go back to the park and play, but they stood there watching. I asked them could I call mom, they didn't know a number. This was about 10 minutes when mommy finally pulled up. She called the kids over, then came my way in a puff, stating it was illegal to metal detect in the park. I explained to her I was on posted property and she was trespassing and what parent would leave their children alone, she got mad and left.

I noticed she was on her cell, in about 15 minutes a lady cop pulled up, went and talked to the lady, then came to me. Now the fun, I was open carrying my pistol in a shoulder holster. Course, I told her I was armed anyway. The cop said the lady complained of a strange armed man talking to her children. I explained the above. She took my gun under protest, but I understand.

The female cop was bitchy and asked for my DL. I asked what for, she said for her investigation. I asked her what crime or suspicion, that the only wrong was a lady leaving her children alone and all of them trespassing on posted property. She kept asking for ID. I told her no, that I had done no crime and my state isn't a "stop and ID state." I kept asking her what crime she was investigating or what suspicion she had, she gave no reason, other than checking a report. Anyway, I told her my ID was in my car. She walked me down to my car, asked me to get my DL, I again replied no. She asked if she could look in my car, I said no. I then stated filming with my IPhone.

I asked for her to get her Super on site. He finally showed, chatted with cop and lady with kids. They finally approached me still filming. He was nice. I again explained to him what happened. He gave me my gun back and said "goodbye". I wasn't in hearing range, but they went back to the lady. I could tell he was giving it to her, obviously got her ID and it appeared he wrote and gave her something. Anyway, she left and after a few the cops left, with the male cop waving his hand and smiling.

Fun Fun....

Edit:

This park is hardly used now, medium crime region for a small milltown.

[Onkel Neal]

Wow, yeah, you have to be careful when dealing with issues like that. If I may, I would suggest not filming and antagonizing the cops, they can really go against you if you don't pay them the proper respect. In a situation like that, you might want to tip your hat to the kids and wander away well before asking the children where the parents are. I think we have all dealt with things like that. When I first moved to my current address, when my 9 year old daughter would come over for the weekends, a couple of kids about the same age from down the block would come over to play. One a boy, one a girl. At first, I would be pleasant and let them play in the front yard while I sat in a lawn chair and read. "Where do you live?" "Oh, a few houses down". "What's your mother's name? Does she know where you are?" "She lets us play with neighbors..." Yeah, very hard to believe a woman would allow her children to go off and about like that, hell, she didn't know me.:huh: They would be in my front yard for hours.

After a couple visits, they would want to enter the house (for water, bathroom, etc). I was not comfortable with that, but had a hard time being rude/paranoid/unneighborly. Damn, they're just kids, right? Can't kids play and enjoy their youth with friends? But after I guess the fourth visit, I decided this was a bad idea. From then on, when they would come to the door, I would make an excuse and send them on. My daughter had plenty of friends in girl scouts and at school. If the parents were not doing a better job than that, I did not want to be involved with any of them.

[Sailor Steve]

@ Armistead: As far as I can see, you did everything correctly and by the book. I can't see what I would have done differently.

@ Neal: When I was growing up I knew every kid and every parent on the block, and they all knew me. There was a climate of trust in those days, not always warranted, but at least with the neighbors. When my own kids were little we lived in neighborhoods where there weren't a lot of other kids, so that trust wasn't there. Times change.

[Red October1984]

Gotta watch out for stuff like this. Some cops have very short tempers. I know a good amount of cops around my area. Just keep calm and avoid incriminating yourself. If you tell the cops NO and start filming them, they will usually get mad. :hmmm: Gotta love this country right? A mom leaves her kids alone and YOU get in trouble...

That's another consequence of being a man. The women always wins....money, kids, etc. You have no chance in court vs an emotional woman.

Just a rant...:yep:

[Stealhead]

You never know these days I would be careful with filming the cops though I would agree it might actually make things worse not better.The one cop I bet he did not see you as a threat at all only thing is that other one is going to have it in for you now and next time the other cop might not be on duty you just made yourself a new friend.

Also without having heard what was said you don't really know what the male cop said to the woman either your assumption is that he was getting on to the woman but how can you know for sure if you did not hear what was said?

I would also be very careful around unknown kids these days as well you never know what the parents might claim against you.If they don't seem to be in danger just be a mean old man.

Another idea as well is if you think someone is calling the law that is your cue to go home you'll be long gone before they arrive.

Maybe you could have handled the conversation the parent differently I would have said "Ah it is good that you show up I was about to call the cops and report that two children where
wandering around on private property without any adult supervision." That would have scared her off.You pointed out her stupidity and it cost you because she decided to harass you.

@Red October if you have done nothing illegal you cant incriminate yourself.

Why do you know so many police so well in a bad manner? You must be doing things to draw their attention.

[Tribesman]

I asked for her to get her Super on site.
Thats the key, it is amazing how many regular policemen don't know the laws or proceedure.

[Jimbuna]

Much lower key by comparison and in know way defending the actions or conduct of said female officer...one of the areas I regulary patrolled had a council estate that included mass unemployment, benefits claimants, gang crime, drug trafficking etc.

The relevant government agency would deploy 'snoops' in vehicles to try and get evidence of benefits cheats eg: the guy actually goes to a job every morning despite claiming unemployment benefit or the woman has a guy living with her despite claiming single parent allowance...the usual stuff.

The locals could spot these 'snoops' a mile off, (it always puzzled me why they'd travel around a run down estate in a new vehicle instead of the wrecks more commonly seen in the area) and would ring the local nick saying strange looking men in a vehicle were watching the kids playing in the street and as such it was a priority response call.

You'd pull up alongside in a marked patrol vehicle and the immediate response was usually one of consternation and anger "What the hell do you think your doing? (showing id) Your blowing our cover pulling up right next to us like that".

Reply: "Look sir, how do you think we've come to be here? You've blown your own cover, hence the call from the neighbourhood".

Their reply: "Look mate, you do your job and go look for (insert any trivial offence) and we'll get on with ours".

Reply: "No problem, only trying to help but I can't say I'll be surprised if the next radio message I overhear is one reporting a car being wrecked by a rowdy gang or of one on fire with its occupants trapped inside".

Once round the block and the 'snoops' car had usually disappeared.

The moral being: How you make your initial approach and interract from the word go often has a major bearing on what entails soon after.

[Platapus]

Honestly?

As a man, if I were out alone and two girls came up to me, I would leave the area as fast as I could. :yep:

It is a sad commentary on our society, but a man alone with girls is automatically suspect. :/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

The fact that you were "Armed and Dangerous" (ohhh scary guns and stuff) would not be in your favour.

All it would have taken is one of those girls to think it was funny to say "he tried to touch me" and you would have had a very bad day.

A very sad commentary on our society.

[Karle94]

I too have been asked for ID by the police. You might say I live in a somewhat troubled neightborhood. There`s some drug trafficking and even rapes and murders. They pulled up and asked me for ID to check if they had anything on me. I cooperated because I did not want to make it more difficult than it had to be. Anyway they let me go after finding nothing. The bus I was waiting for actually had to wait for me on the request of the police.

[Red October1984]

@Red October if you have done nothing illegal you cant incriminate yourself.

Why do you know so many police so well in a bad manner? You must be doing things to draw their attention.

It's not that I do illegal stuff. Most of the police in the county here i know and they know me. (My dad is a lawyer in this county) and I hear them talk. I'm just giving general advice to people who may be doing illegal things. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Unless they ask for your input, or you just really have no idea why this is happening. It's better not to make the law mad.

EDIT: You can't just say "Oh yes officer, I was just asking these kids where their parents are and I asked them X question and they gave me Y answer"

[Armistead]

Her complaint was a stranger in the park talking to her kids. I pointed out to the cop, parks are full of strangers, why we don't leave our young children there, moreso in this part of town.

Yea, I do get it, being a man today, you don't won't to be alone with young children, if the mother hadn't pulled up, I would've called the police, not left.

I have to admit my temper was up, because the lady came over complaining about me metal detecting on private property, wasn't in the park. Obvious the cop had to check things out, but she was bitchy at approach.

I never give ID to police when asked, unless it's demanded and a reason is given. I once got stopped working out of state, pulling trailer with truck, trailer tire went flat, muddy and my jack wouldn't do the job. I called 911 as I was a traffic hazard. Cop shows up, nice overall, asking a few questions, prolly cuz 5 states from home. Tow truck finally came, fixed tire, I paid and tipped him a $100 cuz it was late, cold and mildly raining. The cop saw I had a lot of cash, bout $1,500 bucks, asked why I carried so much. Told him I do to pay employees cost, food, etc., when out of town. I knew what he was thinking, running dope. Worse I had a 12 gauge in the back seat of truck. He asked could he look in my truck,...first mistake, I said yes...no problem. Course told him about my gun. I had a few back operations and was on Methadone, Vicoden, etc..legally prescribed. I never carried full bottles of several meds out of town, just take what I need in a pill container, which he found. I tried to explain to him, showed him my scars, showed him an appt card with my neuro and a written card given my Doctor I was on these meds, good enough for cops in NC, but he called the dogs. He placed my meds back in my mid compartment, dogs came and got a hit on my truck where meds were. In 15 minutes I had several cops going through my truck and trailer, suitcases, etc., throwing all my crap around in the rain and mud. Cops kept asking where my stash was, that if I didn't tell them, my truck would be towed and searched downtown. I told them I had no stash. They finally took meds out and dog hit on them away from truck. They finally let me go, all my clothes wet, inside of truck all muddy with footprints, broke a knob off a air comp and generally trashed both truck and trailer. I had to load my stuff back neatly, cuz they were just throwing expensive equipment back in like rags. They even wrote me a ticket for carrying meds out of prescribed bottle, which was later thrown out of court.

I have no problem filming police, do it a lot when I detect or open carry. I never answer questions, just state my rights nicely. Most cops are decent and respect your rights, moreso when you express them respectfully, however, some cops you give an inch, they'll take a mile...

[Armistead]

I too have been asked for ID by the police. You might say I live in a somewhat troubled neightborhood. There`s some drug trafficking and even rapes and murders. They pulled up and asked me for ID to check if they had anything on me. I cooperated because I did not want to make it more difficult than it had to be. Anyway they let me go after finding nothing. The bus I was waiting for actually had to wait for me on the request of the police.

What is sad today in the US, many states now allow "Search and ID" stops without probable cause. Most still require a cop to have suspicion, but really a mute point. Other states like mine, if a cop has reasonable suspicion, they can only question you and ask for ID, not demand it. They are allowed to do an outer pat of your person, but not go into wallet or pockets, inner searching. Course if they feel something suspect, they can pretty much do as they please.

[Stealhead]

It's not that I do illegal stuff. Most of the police in the county here i know and they know me. (My dad is a lawyer in this county) and I hear them talk. I'm just giving general advice to people who may be doing illegal things. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Unless they ask for your input, or you just really have no idea why this is happening. It's better not to make the law mad.

EDIT: You can't just say "Oh yes officer, I was just asking these kids where their parents are and I asked them X question and they gave me Y answer"

I would have to disagree with your advice simply saying nothing is not a very good idea.If you make no attempt to explain yourself in a respectful manner that some what does incriminate yourself.If you know the cops are coming to you for a false reason you most certainly should say what you in fact where doing

If you really where not doing anything wrong you have the right to say so and some cops a very good at reading a persons body language so if you are being respectful and honest they usually will see it and the problem will go away.At the same time if you give them a false story they will pick up on your deception.

Maybe your dad works with the type that do get into trouble and advice for this kind of person would be different than for a law abiding person.

You most certainly should explain the exact situation as Armristed did your advice would have been for him to say nothing but refuse his ID I think following your advice his day could have been much worse.

[Armistead]

I would have to disagree with your advice simply saying nothing is not a very good idea.If you make no attempt to explain yourself in a respectful manner that some what does incriminate yourself.If you know the cops are coming to you for a false reason you most certainly should say what you in fact where doing

If you really where not doing anything wrong you have the right to say so and some cops a very good at reading a persons body language so if you are being respectful and honest they usually will see it and the problem will go away.At the same time if you give them a false story they will pick up on your deception.

Maybe your dad works with the type that do get into trouble and advice for this kind of person would be different than for a law abiding person.

You most certainly should explain the exact situation as Armristed did your advice would have been for him to say nothing but refuse his ID I think following your advice his day could have been much worse.

I certainly wouldn't advise to say nothing, but I'm not giving my ID or name, except first name, to any police offiicer just because they ask. Most the times they will run you, then bells and whistles go off all over the USA digging up all your info. Not only that, your name usually stays in a data base as suspect with some code attached to it.....no thank you.

Yes, most cops can read body language very well, so when you stand up for your rights and start stating statues most of them don't know, they realize you're one of those American arseholes that believes and stands up for their rights and leave you alone. However, youtube is full of videos of cops breaking the rights of others with no concern.

[Armistead]

I too have been asked for ID by the police. You might say I live in a somewhat troubled neightborhood. There`s some drug trafficking and even rapes and murders. They pulled up and asked me for ID to check if they had anything on me. I cooperated because I did not want to make it more difficult than it had to be. Anyway they let me go after finding nothing. The bus I was waiting for actually had to wait for me on the request of the police.

Must be sad to live where you have to carry your papers and can be stopped and ID'ed without cause. Sadly, many states in the US are headed that way.

[Jimbuna]

Must be sad to live anywhere that is subject to such crimes on an almost ongoing basis that determines what changes to the law are necessary.....probably a worldwide epidemic but that is the world we live in today.

[Red October1984]

I certainly wouldn't advise to say nothing, but I'm not giving my ID or name, except first name, to any police offiicer just because they ask. Most the times they will run you, then bells and whistles go off all over the USA digging up all your info. Not only that, your name usually stays in a data base as suspect with some code attached to it.....no thank you.

Yes, most cops can read body language very well, so when you stand up for your rights and start stating statues most of them don't know, they realize you're one of those American arseholes that believes and stands up for their rights and leave you alone. However, youtube is full of videos of cops breaking the rights of others with no concern.

I wasn't saying that he was wrong in explaining that he had done nothing wrong. I'm saying that if a cop has you for something and they give a reason, don't object. I don't know if I would film cops. That's just me. If the cop had come up to me on private property and it went down like Armistead's situation, I would've asked what the officer was charging me with, I would explain what I was doing, and I would ask if there is any problem. If there was some sort of problem, well...I don't know. You people are older and wiser than me. I would expect you to know more about this than I do. I'm between Cybermat47 and Dowly on the age scale.

[Karle94]

What is sad today in the US, many states now allow "Search and ID" stops without probable cause. Most still require a cop to have suspicion, but really a mute point. Other states like mine, if a cop has reasonable suspicion, they can only question you and ask for ID, not demand it. They are allowed to do an outer pat of your person, but not go into wallet or pockets, inner searching. Course if they feel something suspect, they can pretty much do as they please.

Must be sad to live where you have to carry your papers and can be stopped and ID'ed without cause. Sadly, many states in the US are headed that way.

The fact is, I don`t live in America. I live in Bodø, Norway. In a city with a population of 48,000. Things don`t happen regularly, it just happens sometimes. I`ve been here for three years and I have never seen so much as a fight, much less stabbings, robberies etc. I didn`t have to show them my ID, and they have no right to demand it. I just thought that it would be a lot better to just cooperate and not be suspected of selling dope at the bus stop. I really want a career in the military and if I get a fine for the single smallest thing, the military will never in my lifetime let me in.

[Armistead]

The fact is, I don`t live in America. I live in Bodø, Norway. In a city with a population of 48,000. Things don`t happen regularly, it just happens sometimes. I`ve been here for three years and I have never seen so much as a fight, much less stabbings, robberies etc. I didn`t have to show them my ID, and they have no right to demand it. I just thought that it would be a lot better to just cooperate and not be suspected of selling dope at the bus stop. I really want a career in the military and if I get a fine for the single smallest thing, the military will never in my lifetime let me in.

I understood where you live, your post seem to imply they could stop and ID without cause. Yep, sometimes it's easier to waive your legal rights and just comply if you feel it will make things easier. If I had actually been in the public park, I probably would've acted differently and showed my ID.

[Onkel Neal]

The fact is, I don`t live in America. I live in Bodø, Norway. In a city with a population of 48,000. Things don`t happen regularly, it just happens sometimes. I`ve been here for three years and I have never seen so much as a fight, much less stabbings, robberies etc. I didn`t have to show them my ID, and they have no right to demand it. I just thought that it would be a lot better to just cooperate and not be suspected of selling dope at the bus stop. I really want a career in the military and if I get a fine for the single smallest thing, the military will never in my lifetime let me in.

You and I are on the same page. In the US, especially big cities, crime is so bad that if I can help a cop by cooperating and clearing his suspicions, I will gladly do it. Sure, I'll show my ID if asked, why not?--he's not out to persecute me, he just needs to clear me off his search radar. If I start sassing him about my rights, he's going to wonder why I'm so defensive. I don't have anything to hide and I really do hope he can make dent in crime, so I'm not going to waste his time.

[em2nought]

I hate to be in a public rest room when kids are present, just that alone makes me think it's time to leave this county.

On a positive note the small town I work in on weekends disbanded their crooked police dept, and are now using the sheriff's office instead.

[Armistead]

You and I are on the same page. In the US, especially big cities, crime is so bad that if I can help a cop by cooperating and clearing his suspicions, I will gladly do it. Sure, I'll show my ID if asked, why not?--he's not out to persecute me, he just needs to clear me off his search radar. If I start sassing him about my rights, he's going to wonder why I'm so defensive. I don't have anything to hide and I really do hope he can make dent in crime, so I'm not going to waste his time.

I guess we're different, I feel the police are hired to to protect and enforce my rights, not break them. I am totally against "Search and ID", DUI checks, basically anything that gives the goverment the right to stop you, ID or search you without probable cause. It's not so much I'm against cops, but slowly we are losing our rights and no one seems to notice. Certainly cops can ask you anything, but you have the right to refuse, problem is you refuse, they take that as cause for reasonable suspicion, it's not.

Like last year, I came upon a DUI stop, waited in the "Search" line for 30 minutes. When I pulled up, the cop asked me "had I been drinking tonight"
I simply told him " I refuse to answer questions without cause." Yep, it made him mad and I was told to pull over. I was asked again, so I simply stated " If you have reasonable suspicion, feel free to arrest me, but I don't answer questions without cause" and refused my ID and wouldn't get out until ordered. He obviously couldn't smell anything, but wanted to put me through DUI test, which I refused. For one I've had several back operations and wouldn't pass, which I told him. He then wanted me to breathe in his tube, of course I refused. I bet I was surrounded by several cops then. It was only after being told if I didn't comply and they would tow my car that I complied after protest. After they deemed I wasn't drinking, one cop asked " why cause such a fuss over something so small when I wasn't drinking, I simply told him my rights to be secure in my body and property and to be forced to comply with test and answer questions without probable cause was no little matter to me.

People may not care, but slowly across this nation our rights are denied. Now over 20 states have "Search and ID" stops without probable cause. What will be the next generation, we're all forced to carry our papers, allow the government free will over our bodies and property without cause, throw the constitution out the window to make life easier for government? Sorry, it's been proven over and over most forces have a corrupt element, in some places entire forces are corrupt. These laws have led to much racial profiling and millions of tax payer dollars spent in paying lawsuits.