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View Full Version : Full Realism War Story and Questions from a Rookie


Searaven
01-06-13, 09:03 PM
When I was a kid, I used to play Aces of the Deep. Granted, I had no idea what I was doing, and I usually just ran at convoys on the surface guns blazing.

I started getting back into sub simulations recently (around November). I picked up Silent Hunter IV after looking for a modern replacement for Aces of the Deep (I got AotD going on DOSBox, but it was too difficult for me to master without any plotting tools in-game).

I fired up my first Silent Hunter Campaign at about 50% realism, with realistic sensors turned off and automatic TDC enabled. I got to about 1943, but it was just too easy. I'd pick up a convoy on radar, plot it, intercept at 90*, sink 3-4 merchants, and bam I was gone.

So, I decided to go full realism, which is what I wanted to do to begin with. My initial foray had provided me with the basic gist of how the game worked; now I wanted to hunt with the best of them. I thought I'd gotten the manual targeting down after watching a few videos, and I'm comfortable enough with the math required to do the angular calculations for the manual plotting required with "realistic sensors."

So, after several initial missteps (I won't kid, as a rookie, being out in Japanese waters with nothing but your hydrophone to guide you is rather daunting), I set out from Fremantle in July of 1942 to deliver an agent into Manila. Long story short, I was running fast on the surface at night to make up for submerged time lost during the day (damned planes) and my sonarman picked up a hydrophone contact. I turned to the contact's bearing and plotted a (bad) course based only the hydrophone bearings and the "long range," "medium range" distinctions made by the sonarman.

There was little moonlight, and I kept the contact(s) off my 270* as best as I could while I thought I was in position on their rough track. After the contacts began rounding up off of my nose, and I thought the destroyer was far enough out front (always a rough guess), I came to periscope depth and glanced out. There was one troop transport coming across my bow at about 3000 meters, one destroyer out in front, and one aft of the troop transport. The destroyers seemed oblivious to my presence; after all, it was night, and I was only creeping forward at 1/3 on the electric.

Naturally, I began lining up the transport. Since I had no precise course plotted for it on the map, and because it was rather distant (3000 is a bit farther out than I like to work with...), I had a hard time working out its angle on the bow. The stadimeter distance was rough at best, with each new measurement being off by at least 100 meters from the last. Because of this, the crew measured speed was unreliable, as I assumed was the crew's estimate of the transport's course.

I decided I'd simply do a few more quick measurements, hope for the best, and fire a spread of six torpedoes from 3* right to 2* left. As the ship kept moving, I now couldn't tell if it was coming at me on a very slight angle, or if it was angled away from me slightly. Oh well. I set my torpedoes to slow and opened all six doors. I set each one in 1* increments according to the spread above and I fired. I had to wait several minutes, and I was sure that I missed. I started compressing time and all of a sudden there was an explosion. The fire lit up the otherwise black atmosphere. The first three torpedoes had missed, but the fourth and fifth impacted. The sixth missed as well. She split at the middle and went down rather quickly; the destroyer out in front sent up flares, and both destroyers started running in my general direction. I crash dived, went to 95 meters and slunk away without incident.

So, incredibly long story, but I assumed I'd illustrate one of my more fun encounters, after having had several total misses with hydrophone approaches and subsequent manual targeting failures.

Which brings me to some questions for you veterans out there. One, is there any reliable way to measure angle on bow without a verified course for the target? If I have its course, I will simply match its angle with its course on the instrument. Otherwise, it's basically rough guesswork, and oftentimes I find I can't decide if it's slightly angled away or toward my boat.

Also, are there any tips for the hydrophone? When radar becomes available, I can plot accurate courses, but even then when I dive down in front of the convoy, I need to use the hydrophone bearings to determine when the destroyers have passed out in front. I basically keep the group of ships at 90* or 270* bearing off of my boat with forward or backward motor for as long as possible until their distance becomes constant.

On that note, I also couldn't find the hydrophone's range listed anywhere. If I barely start picking up a contact on the hydrophone, how far can I assume it is? When the sonarman says "long range," how far out is this? How about "medium range?"

With respect to manual targeting, is there a certain amount of time I should wait in between stadimeter measurements in order for the crew to give me a reliable speed and course readout? Also, should I keep the position keeper running as I'm making all of my inputs, or only after I've completed all of the necessary inputs for the solution? Is the PK necessary if my boat is not moving?

Finally, does anyone know the rough ranges at which escorts can spot a sub on the surface during the day? I watched one video where someone shadowed a convoy at surprisingly close range in the middle of the day, all on the surface! There was a DD that couldn't have been more than 4-5 KM away from him. I know submarines are hard to spot, but just how close is too close in general? I know nighttime gives one a lot more leeway in surface approaches.

In closing, I'd like to apologize for any misspellings/grammatical errors in advance. I'm just writing this and firing away. I'd also like to note than I'm playing stock 1.5 with no mods.

Thanks for any answers, and good hunting. :rock:

Red October1984
01-06-13, 09:33 PM
I'd also like to note than I'm playing stock 1.5 with no mods.

Well Searaven...that is your first mistake.

Pick out a supermod that you like. The Stock game is broken and not realistic at all. I run TMO 2.5 and Run Silent, Run Deep Campaign Mod.

If the AI is too strong, there is a Easier AI for TMO mod out there. It is good for beginners.

Oh...and WELCOME TO SUBSIM! :yeah:

Cybermat47
01-06-13, 09:40 PM
WELCOME
TO
SUBSIM!

Armistead
01-06-13, 09:52 PM
The stock game is rather fubar, so pick one of the supermods.

Min for stad is about 5 seconds, but I prefer 10 as min. for measurments. If you get a good course, yes, enterning it is a perfect AOB. If you're unsure, guess, AOB doesn't have to be perfect. Whatever you do, just make sure you put in your last range measurement last.

With mods like TMO or OTC you get a proper working radar, needed if you have contacts off.

Many values play a role when an escort can see you, on a clear day playing TMO, about 5nms, stock probably 3nms.

Searaven
01-06-13, 11:04 PM
Thanks so much for the answers and warm reception. This site has been quite the trove of information for me thus far.

I didn't want to jump into the mods too quickly, but you've convinced me. The bit about having a functional radar set in particular seems nice.

Would anyone recommend TMO or RFB? I'm leaning towards TMO to start out with, but I'm open to suggestions.

magic452
01-07-13, 02:49 AM
Welcome to the boat mate.:salute:

Both are good mods but do somewhat different things.
RFB is more of a realism mod.
TMO is a more difficult mod and Ducimus tries to get you to play realistic by other means and is rather deadly till you get use to it, that's what I use.

You really have to try them both out to see which you prefer.

Magic

TorpX
01-07-13, 02:57 AM
Which brings me to some questions for you veterans out there. One, is there any reliable way to measure angle on bow without a verified course for the target? If I have its course, I will simply match its angle with its course on the instrument. Otherwise, it's basically rough guesswork, and oftentimes I find I can't decide if it's slightly angled away or toward my boat.
Visual estimate was probably the most common technique. (O'Kane practiced this with ship models in between patrols.) It is possible to calculate AoB using the aspect ratio, though. As you noticed, estimating it at long range is difficult.
Also, are there any tips for the hydrophone? When radar becomes available, I can plot accurate courses, but even then when I dive down in front of the convoy, I need to use the hydrophone bearings to determine when the destroyers have passed out in front. I basically keep the group of ships at 90* or 270* bearing off of my boat with forward or backward motor for as long as possible until their distance becomes constant.
I wouldn't rely too much on the hydrophones. Mostly, subs would use periscope observations unless they were under attack or about to be attacked. Basically, you can stalk or attack at P/S depth, but below that, you are just hiding.
On that note, I also couldn't find the hydrophone's range listed anywhere. If I barely start picking up a contact on the hydrophone, how far can I assume it is? When the sonarman says "long range," how far out is this? How about "medium range?"
Hydrophone range depends on equipment, sea conditions and how noisy your target is. The inability to ascertain range is why P/S observations were necessary.
With respect to manual targeting, is there a certain amount of time I should wait in between stadimeter measurements in order for the crew to give me a reliable speed and course readout? Also, should I keep the position keeper running as I'm making all of my inputs, or only after I've completed all of the necessary inputs for the solution? Is the PK necessary if my boat is not moving?
I would plot the targets course myself, instead of using the speed button. It is not very accurate. If you want to use it though, I would space observations at at least 3 min. Keep the PK on, nothing is gained by turning it off.



Happy Hunting! :salute:

Red October1984
01-07-13, 08:26 AM
Thanks so much for the answers and warm reception. This site has been quite the trove of information for me thus far.

I didn't want to jump into the mods too quickly, but you've convinced me. The bit about having a functional radar set in particular seems nice.

Would anyone recommend TMO or RFB? I'm leaning towards TMO to start out with, but I'm open to suggestions.

I love TMO and RSRD Campaign mod. I haven't tried RFB. I've read both manuals though and TMO seemed to be the right choice.

Searaven
01-08-13, 05:46 PM
I'm on my second war patrol in early '42, running RSRD and TMO 2.5.

One big question. I think all of my torpedoes are running deep. I know they historically ran deep, but is this modeled in every torpedo in TMO? As in, can I expect a torpedo set at 6 feet to run at 16 feet? I've had a couple perfect solutions on some Marus at rather close range, and one or two will be duds, and the rest will miss completely. I can only assume that they're running under the ship. I never mess with magnetic influence detonators, but maybe I should?

Should I just start setting my torpedoes to the most shallow setting?

Also, thanks for the answers Torpx! Thanks for the input on the mods as well. Decided to go with TMO/RSRDC first. I'm enjoying it thus far.

Red October1984
01-09-13, 08:34 AM
I'm on my second war patrol in early '42, running RSRD and TMO 2.5.

One big question. I think all of my torpedoes are running deep. I know they historically ran deep, but is this modeled in every torpedo in TMO? As in, can I expect a torpedo set at 6 feet to run at 16 feet? I've had a couple perfect solutions on some Marus at rather close range, and one or two will be duds, and the rest will miss completely. I can only assume that they're running under the ship. I never mess with magnetic influence detonators, but maybe I should?

Should I just start setting my torpedoes to the most shallow setting?

Also, thanks for the answers Torpx! Thanks for the input on the mods as well. Decided to go with TMO/RSRDC first. I'm enjoying it thus far.


Set your torpedoes at shallow depth. (I haven't had any deep runners) Set the speed to Low and the detonator to Contact. Also, you want to shoot the torpedoes at an off angle. A 90 degree shot will dud every time.

Searaven
01-09-13, 05:57 PM
Thanks. That seems to have helped.

Just had another great patrol (4 Marus sunk off Japan) ruined by a random CTD. :(

Also, can anyone tell me how to make sense of the radar in TMO/RSRDC? I knew how to get rough ranges with the PPI in stock 1.5, but in TMO, there are the number dials on the left that I'm assuming are supposed to read out the range to the target. However, the only way I can get them to move is by dragging across the monitor with my mouse. They don't correspond to actual range as verified with optics. I'd love to be able to get some solid range/bearings with this new radar, but I can't figure out the number dial. It didn't seem to be covered in the TMO manual (nor the RSRDC readmes).

One more thing, is the Japanese coast in 1942 supposed to be a total turkey shoot? I've yet to encounter much else other than lone Marus (easy pickings).

Nisgeis
01-10-13, 03:17 PM
Also, can anyone tell me how to make sense of the radar in TMO/RSRDC? I knew how to get rough ranges with the PPI in stock 1.5, but in TMO, there are the number dials on the left that I'm assuming are supposed to read out the range to the target. However, the only way I can get them to move is by dragging across the monitor with my mouse. They don't correspond to actual range as verified with optics. I'd love to be able to get some solid range/bearings with this new radar, but I can't figure out the number dial. It didn't seem to be covered in the TMO manual (nor the RSRDC readmes).

John Channing did an excellent guide for the radar in the Gato (not all subs have it):

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=172535

It basically works how the real radar worked. You have to measure the range by lining up a pointer with the target pip. You don't need to worry about selecting the periscope and being range mode though, that's only if you want to input the range directly into the TDC. Without selecting range to target you can just use the radar range unit to measure the range and it will be accurate, but you can't input it into the TDC.

EDIT: And welcome aboard!