Ethical eating

[Skybird]

I have still not decided whether I want to laugh or take this one for serious.

http://theconversation.edu.au/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659

[Takeda Shingen]

I became a vegetarian because the diet is indeed healthier. Once I dropped the meat from my diet, the excess weight came off my body and I had more energy and felt better than I had ever in my life. While I would never go back to the diet I had before, I don't claim moral high ground. It's just a choice.

[Oberon]

I admire vegetarians but I could never become one. However, the article does make a point, which comes under something we discussed before Skybird, humans mucking up the natural balance of the world.

Of course, that is not to say that there is a moral high-ground on the meat eating side either, whilst cattle pastures are a standard part of the Australian landscape now, they weren't always that way, nor where they in the Americas (both north and south) or indeed, anywhere. Certainly the destruction of rainforest land to clear lands for cattle farms in South America has caused a great deal of harm, and the disruption to the native ecosystem that cattle farming brought to central America in the early 1800s is another example, however in the cause of America and Australia, nature has adapted to the new status quo, trying to reverse that would cause more damage for nature and upset the apple cart once again.

It's not so much the choice that is the problem, it's the bulk volume of food, farms take up so much horizontal space that we have to expand out into greenfield land to make more farming space for crops.
I dearly hope that at some point in the near future, people start to give the idea of vertical farming some real consideration, I can't see it being the answer to all our problems, but certainly it will go some way to helping, particularly in terms of crop farming, and furthermore, it will allow for constant environmental monitoring and adjustment within a walled environment, thus making sure that whatever change is made to nature stays within the building, and since it could be built in cities and brownfield sites then there is no need for sprawling horizontal farms, heck you could even build it in the desert.

Naturally though, what it boils down to is the one major thing that both constrains us and advances us....Money. :dead:

[Skybird]

It seems the author was arguing that vegetarian food and crop farming for ethical reasons is not that much an alternative to eating meat, because it actually kills even more sentient, self-aware life. That is what made me chuckle.

7 billion people - well I often said before I consider that to be 6 billion too many for a long-term, sustainable balance.

I eat meat rarely these days, when I do, it is beef steak, and - not as rarely as beef - chicken. No sausage, no meat as spread on bread (what is "Aufschnitt" in English? :) ) No pork, I do not like it. Kangaroo I could be interested in. Steaks I can do very well now, and my Goulasch is legenadary. :D Chicken I sometimes use in Chinese-style Wok food with vegetables. And that'S it with meat for me. Fish not counted.

Corn I indeed eat a lot, I also bake my bread myself, with self-grinded flour (the bread tastes better than the sad carricature of bread bakeries sell these days, and it costs less than half of what a full-corn-bread ("Biobrot") would cost at the baker. And pizza dough - well, I reported on that, did I. :D Living is eating, and eating is killing. The poor mice and moles I have never thought much about. I do not plan to change that in the future. Nor will I stop to eat corn. I like corn. If there is one thing I do not plan to do, then it is replacing my eating with grazing.

So it sucks to be a mouse. Well. Karma. If Skybird doesn't catch it, then the owl or the falcon surely will.

[eddie]

Oberon, you're not going to give up fish and chips are you? This is an order you can get at a place in Chicago!:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/fishampchips_zpse69ca2fa.jpg

[GoldenRivet]

personally i know three vegetarians... 2 of them are the two most overweight unhealthy individuals i know... one is a hot supermodel of a woman.

i think it depends on the person.

meat is a healthy, much needed part of a human diet.

[Takeda Shingen]

meat is a healthy, much needed part of a human diet.

That largely depends on the type, method of preparation and quantity consumed. Red meats do have a connection with cancer and Type II diabetes as well as the obvious cardiovasular disease connection. Sausage and processed meats also have similar connections. It is very important not to fall into the 'I know a guy' syndrome. After all, we know of those pack-a-day smokers that never got cancer. That doesn't make smoking a good idea.

[GoldenRivet]

That largely depends on the type, method of preparation and quantity consumed. Red meats do have a connection with cancer and Type II diabetes as well as the obvious cardiovasular disease connection. Sausage and processed meats also have similar connections. It is very important not to fall into the 'I know a guy' syndrome. After all, we know of those pack-a-day smokers that never got cancer. That doesn't make smoking a good idea.

everything - even the oxygen you breathe - kills you.

i will live my life as i chose as i think all people should live their lives as they choose.

i think too many people push their lifestyle.

I will eat red meat, drink liquor, smoke cigars and perform cunnilingus.

everyone else can do as they please.

i think the world worries too much honestly:-?

[Takeda Shingen]

everything - even the oxygen you breathe - kills you.

i will live my life as i chose as i think all people should live their lives as they choose.

i think too many people push their lifestyle.

I will eat red meat, drink liquor, smoke cigars and perform cunnilingus.

everyone else can do as they please.

i think the world worries to much honestly:-?

And that's fine, as it is your choice, but that was not your argument. You said it was healthy, hence my problem with the statement. Your choices are your choices, but don't pass them off as promoting health in an attempt to justify them, occasionally to others but mostly to oneself.

[GoldenRivet]

meat is part of a balanced healthy diet

[Takeda Shingen]

Depends on type, preparation and quantity.

[GoldenRivet]

Depends on type, preparation and quantity.

agreed.

bacon 5 times a day deep fried in lard = bad


steak once or twice a week grilled = not bad

[Takeda Shingen]

agreed.

bacon 5 times a day deep fried in lard = bad


steak once or twice a week grilled = not bad

I would question any red meat on the basis of health, and the studies back that up, but it is your heart and your colon. You'd be better off with some grilled salmon

[Rilder]

Honestly as I get older and older the less enthused I am about eating any meat, I already outright don't eat bird or pig meat and haven't since I was a kid. (Watching a pig slowly die as a young lad does not leave you unscathed... pigs don't die quietly.....) Even beef, the little I actually eat I feel like I should lessen my use of. :hmmm:

[BossMark]

Oberon, you're not going to give up fish and chips are you? This is an order you can get at a place in Chicago!:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/fishampchips_zpse69ca2fa.jpg
I wouldn't give up this anything or anybody, I love fish "n" chips :yep:

[Hottentot]

I don't intend to become a vegetarian, nor do I have a problem with them anymore than with people who drink alcohol whereas I don't. That is specifically: those to whom I don't need to explain my choice anymore than they need to explain their choice to me. Frankly, I can imagine a lot more interesting topics to talk or argue about.

It's the people who start a sentence by: "studies show..." and within the same sentence go on the "but you can't eat cute fuzzy animals" tangent, which then carries on for a whole ranting monologue that I have a problem with.

[Oberon]

agreed.

bacon 5 times a day deep fried in lard = bad


steak once or twice a week grilled = not bad

One should also factor into the equation the potential effects of chemicals within the body of the animal being eaten. Furthermore there's the hormones to consider as well, both factors can increase the unhealthiness of the meat being consumed, however it's usually such a trace amount that no real effects are noticeable unless vast quantities are consumed.
The problem lies in the feed stocks that most cattle are receiving these days, it's a pile of rubbish, full of chemicals to increase the shelf life and growth hormones to increase the bulk of the animal. It's been that way since the industrial revolution, although admittedly there are laws in place to help reduce the amount of rubbish going into the food for farm animals, at least there is in Europe and the UK anyway, since the whole BSE crisis of the 1990s.
Still, even with that knowledge, I eat meat, because I enjoy it. I think the only non-meat food that I enjoy as much as meat is pasta and noodles.

Oh, and strangely for a Brit, I'm not that keen on fish and chips...would much rather have sausage and chips. :doh:

[troopie]

Dunno what it's like in other countries, but for the last few years in Oz there's been this (seemingly) media induced meat biased fad of 'nuevo cuisine' that has pretty much permiated even the remote parts of the country. Really jacks me off. You order a feed and it's about 90% meat; so ya gotta try an' order your vege's on the side, crazy.

To me the meat should be just a small part of the entire meal. I read somewhere (Aus. cancer council perhaps?) that meat should constitute only about 1/3 of a meal, and that works well for me.

What ever hapened to the old standard of meat an' three veg' (was that just an Aussie thing?) ?

[Skybird]

personally i know three vegetarians... 2 of them are the two most overweight unhealthy individuals i know...
Well, a vegetarian drinking softdrinks by the litres, eating plenty of white sugar stuff and fat in chips and prefabricated food, does not do his weight a favour, vegetarian or not.

[GoldenRivet]

Well, a vegetarian drinking softdrinks by the litres, eating plenty of white sugar stuff and fat in chips and prefabricated food, does not do his weight a favour, vegetarian or not.

This is true, I dont know whether or not they do that :hmmm:

I eat pretty much from every "food group" there are not a lot of grains in my diet, but there is a lot of greens, salads, vegetables etc too

grilling is one of my favorite activities. Rather enjoy some boiled red potatoes with a salad, some steamed vegetables or grilled corn on the cob and a nice fist sized tenderloin. thats a nice dinner IMHO

The best tenderloins are available at a local grocery store that deals in fresh foods and whole foods. Its a neat place to shop, they even have a bar wherey you can get a glass of wine or a bottle of beer and walk around the grocery store enjoying your drink while you shop. I always purchase the 8-10 ounce tenderloins - grass fed free range with no hormones. It costs a little more to shop there but the taste is good and the knowledge that you're not consuming anything but animal is comforting.

of course i probably only eat that twice a month maybe

my other favorite is grilled salmon with stuffed crab

aside from grilling there are the spring and summer time outdoor engagements where we will boil live crab, live crawfish or shrimp with some onions, red potatoes, lemons, limes etc. its a tasty event and can take a few hours just to boil the water so such an evening usually is held in celebration of something.

I like food. i love to cook and grill. I like to experiment with new flavors. I really enjoy putting together a large dinner and having friends over to enjoy it. A large part of the meals i prepare involves steak, fish, chicken or pork.

personally i couldn't imagine eating only plant matter

one vegetarian i know loves to cook too... all of her creations are vegetarian. I have had dinner at her house frequently as her husband is my best friend. personally i find the taste of vegetarian lasagna (and many other dishes) to be appalling. More frequently than not, he and I eat a small serving then while running an after dinner errand hit up a good mom and pop burger joint.

Food is a thing people can get passionate about. My taste varies and my enjoyment of cooking is so broad i could never limit my palate or my kitchen to only plants. And i believe that almost anything - in moderation - is good for you. that includes a diet with meat.

Edit: On the other end of the spectrum my ex wife: all she ever seemed to eat was beef. she had acquired no taste for anything but cheeseburgers or steak it would seem. And of course she only had excessive weight gain and poor blood pressure to show for it after several years.

[STEED]

Eating meat dose not make you fat, it all comes down to how much you eat & how active you are. If your not very active you do not need to eat much, moving on..

There was a programme on here in the UK a few weeks ago about food and fitness. Going to the Gym was dangerous to your health for a number of reasons, anyway I found the food facts interesting for example the Veg today from Supermarkets has very little nutrition value unlike 50 years ago!

The food industry has destroyed veg unless you grow your own. Another thing and this one I agree, I bought by error low fat smooth peanut butter and I agreed what was said about that one. Gritty and tasteless due to less peanuts in the ingredients and dried glucose syrup being added which is junk!

Low fat cereals are a joke along with all those low fat foods. Our diets have been changed for the worst by the food industry which use the phase..We don't force you to eat it, true but you don't tell the whole truth do you?

[Armistead]

everything -

I will eat red meat, drink liquor, smoke cigars and perform cunnilingus.



I've heard versions of it, but that has a ring to it, writing it down.:har:.


My Granpma loved to cook and eat, but never got fat. Everything she cooked had Fatback in it, she smoked, chew snuff, dranks some. About 80 she got sick, can't recall, but she dediced it was time to live healthy. She rode a bike 5 miles a day til about 95, lived past 100. She often said her good health came from the fact she ate from her own garden most her life, including making her own tobacco. Course my Grandpa died in his late 60's living the same lifestyle, but died of black lung.

When Grandpa died, she finally moved from the mountains in with my Aunt and hated food from the store, blamed it for making her sick and soon had the back yard plowed for a garden and she wouldn't eat store meat.

This is her from the 60's, guess she died in ...98. I do think she had great genes, but she always said "that store bought food will kill yuins"

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/12833_104135876267886_4667593_n.jpg

[nikimcbee]

Nevermind the meat, you're eating too many carbs:up:

Go on a low carb diet and you can eat all the protein you want. (Not atikins diet though)

[nikimcbee]

I have still not decided whether I want to laugh or take this one for serious.

http://theconversation.edu.au/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659

To answer your question Sky: Laugh:up:


I'm guessing the person that wrote the article is one of these type of people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LBICPEK6w

[AVGWarhawk]

"that store bought food will kill yuins"

[/IMG]

I would think that she is correct on some level.