U.S. liabilities total $87 trillion...

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

...if this article (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2012/12/28/mort-zuckerman-brace-for-an-avalanche-of-unfunded-debt_print.html) is correct. :o
The greatest fiscal challenge to the U.S. government is not just its annual deficit but its total liabilities. Our federal balance sheet does not include the unfunded social insurance obligations of Medicare, Social Security, and the future retirement benefits of federal employees. Only in the small print of the financial statements do you get some idea of the enormous size of the unfunded commitments. Today the estimated unfunded total is more than $87 trillion, or 550 percent of our GDP. And the debt per household is more than 10 times the median family income.Full link: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2012/12/28/mort-zuckerman-brace-for-an-avalanche-of-unfunded-debt_print.html

[Skybird]

Nice seeing somebody else posting "exaggerations" like this. If I bring them, people never believe me. :88)

[AVGWarhawk]

$238 trillion

http://www.silverdoctors.com/niall-ferguson-us-unfunded-liabilities-top-238-trillion/

$84 trillion


http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/16/report-federal-unfunded-liabilities-total-84-trillion/

$144 trillion

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/245-trillion-us-national-debt-144-trillion-unfunded-liabilities-2015


So what is it gonna be? :hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Nice seeing somebody else posting "exaggerations" like this. If I bring them, people never believe me. :88)I honestly don't know how accurate that article is. Thats why I posted it here - to get opinions and corrections if article is factually inaccurate.

[AVGWarhawk]

To be honest, I don't believe anyone has a concrete number. :hmmm:

[Catfish]

Well if this is only halfways true, the new trillion for the F-35 is only a minor nuisance :06:

[Skybird]

To be honest, I don't believe anyone has a concrete number. :hmmm:

Yes, but one thing is certain, and I said that many times: the implicit debts (that are the debts mentioned in that article) are several times as big as the explicit debts (that are the ones normally referred to) that usually get mentioned to be around 16 to 19 trillion.

And it is the implicit debts that will break the backbone of this amok running system, not the explicit debts.

[geetrue]

Uncle Sam will no longer be able to say, "the check is in the mail"

because all government banking will switch to ebt (electronic banking transfer) by march of this year in order to meet the new Obama health care mandates which will include not only putting the money in, but will now allow Uncle Sam to withdraw funds from your ebt, unless you are a muslim of course.

In case you didn't know muslims due to there religion have become one of the few peoples that don't have to registar for Obama helath care plans.

I speak the truth .... just too busy to provide a link right now :yep:

[STEED]

Put it this way, the Black holes are getting full of hidden debt and they who are trying to hide it by cooking the books still a have a few rabbits to pull out the hat before the whole system falls apart.

[Tribesman]

In case you didn't know muslims due to there religion have become one of the few peoples that don't have to registar for Obama helath care plans.

Thats a good one:rotfl2:



Interesting articles there Warhawk.
One illustrates how Japan is still buggered after their bubble went pop a long time ago as they have kept pushing it down the line instead of facing it

[geetrue]

Thats a good one:rotfl2:

No joke ... muslims consider insurance a sin of gambling and they may, on an individual basis say, "No to Obama care"

http://libertyandpride.com/muslims-exempt-from-obamacare/


The new Obamacare legislation that was forced on unwilling Americans this week specifically mandates that we all purchase health insurance. That is, unless you don’t believe in that sort of thing. That’s right, the current health care bill contains a clause which exempts certain individuals form the requirements and penalties set forth in it.
”
EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.

—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:
In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a
member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian,
or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.”
Senate Bill, H.R. 3590, pages 273-274
There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions.

Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam” (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/health-insurance-is-forbidden-under-islam), or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. Other excluded groups include Amish, American Indians, and Christian Scientists.

So, is it that easy? Is simply being a member of an “recognized religious sect” enough to exempt an individual from Obamacare?

Not quite…the information provided by each individual must first be verified against the records of the Social Security Administration, and possibly Homeland Security, in order to prove citizenship and religious status. If the records are found to be consistent with the information for the individual applying for exemption, only then are they eligible.

If the records are found to inconsistent with such information, the individual applying for exemption is given 90 days to clear up any possible errors with the reporting agencies. That 90 day period can be extended upon the discretion of the Secretary of applicable agencies. If, by the end of this period, the information is still not cleared up, the individual can then apply for an appeal. Whereby exemption can be decided, or reevaluated on a periodic basis, by the individual agencies in question. The appeals process is determined by the individual agencies involved.

In short, each individual applying for exemption must verify that they are citizens and that they are actually members of a “recognized religious sect.”
If the individual can make it through all of the bureaucracy involved in this process, they can then obtain exemption. Trust me the federal government doesn’t want to make it easy for anyone to get out of participating in the system.

The real question is, ”which religions qualify for exemption?” It’s easy to argue that Muslims, Christian Scientists, and the Amish will be “recognized,” because they have a moral conflict with insurance. However, what argument will Christians be able to make for exemption? Will they be able to claim exemption due to a moral conflict with publicly funded abortions? Not likely.

[Tribesman]

No joke ... muslims consider insurance a sin of gambling and they may, on an individual basis say, "No to Obama care"

Lets see.
Factcheck....check
Urban legend ....check
Journal of accountancy...check
Islamic society of N. America...check
WorldNet Daily....check
Snopes...check

Well done you supplied
LibertyandPride...didn't check the chain e-mail they published as news.


So this is a clause which takes some existing rules and applies them to the new bill:yep:
So this is a clause which is not aimed at muslims.:yep:

Time for a new crazy conspiracy theory for ya
Obama is a secret Old Order Amish and is putting their existing exemptions into the new legislation.
Watch out the Amish are coming and they have a horse:har:

[Armistead]

No joke ... muslims consider insurance a sin of gambling and they may, on an individual basis say, "No to Obama care"

http://libertyandpride.com/muslims-exempt-from-obamacare/

Why couldn't a christian argue that they believe only God heals and that buying insurance would conflict with their faith, causing doubts.....

[AVGWarhawk]

They just might be able to argue their case successfully.

[geetrue]

Just a normal christian (follower of Jesus Christ) does not qualify ... :hmmm:


In short, each individual applying for exemption must verify that they are citizens and that they are actually members of a “recognized religious sect.”
If the individual can make it through all of the bureaucracy involved in this process, they can then obtain exemption.


You must be a "recognized religious sect"

I also fact checked like Tribesman and true the law does not just apply to muslims, but they do qualify.

The owner of hobby lobby has already tried to exempt his company due to the abortion clause with the supreme court denying his request for exemption.

I am a veteran and they have yet to make it clear what we have to do.

The law doesn't even take effect till 2014, but like a hurricane you can feel the storm coming from a long way away.

[Armistead]

Sit back and watch the layoffs begin.

[August]

I'd like to know how they expect to determine someones religion. The only government agency to ever ask me what my religion is was the army and that was 36 years ago.

[Tribesman]

They just might be able to argue their case successfully.

Yes, and a halal restaurant does not need public liability insurance and a muslim driver does not need car insurance:doh:




You must be a "recognized religious sect"

set out all the terms and conditions in the Internal Revenue Code and the Social Security Act which define a "recognised religious sect", then try and apply them to what you are claiming

I also fact checked like Tribesman and true the law does not just apply to muslims, but they do qualify.

No they don't, face it Geetrue you got suckered by a chain e-mail that fed on your fears of secret muslim conspiracies from your secret muslim president from kenya.
For a muslim to qualify he would have to prove that his branch of islam has an established waiver for payroll taxes in the United States for its members and does not have any of its members taking any social security benefits.
Now if you can identify any muslim sect that fits that category in the United States I will state in really big letters that you are not talking crap.

Did you not think that when even World Net Daily are saying the story is crap that the story really is crap?

I'd like to know how they expect to determine someones religion. The only government agency to ever ask me what my religion is was the army and that was 36 years ago.
Thats easy August , they look at your tax returns and see if you get the tax exemption for being from a recognised sect

[geetrue]

I didn't get my inital information from a chain email, but just simply watched a show on TV called Son of Life with Jimmy Swagart's wife Francis stating it.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/Are-Muslims-Exempt-From-Health-Care-Reform.htm

Could Muslims Seek Exemption from Health Care Reform Law


Could Muslims seek exemption from the health care reform law? Yes, but they have given no indication of intending to do so.

Muslims living in non-Islamic countries such as the United Statesdo not believe it is a sin to comply (http://islam.about.com/od/business/f/insurancefaq.htm) with the health care reform law.

The Muslim scholar Sheikh Muhammed Al-Munajjid advises those practicing Islam in such countries:
"If you are forced to take out insurance and there is an accident, it is permissible for you to take from the insurance company the same amount as the payments you have made, but you should not take any more than that. If they force you to take it then you should donate it to charity."


Checked it out and it is possible, but of course you are right about the pay roll tax thing and such, but I also uncovered other items that are under investigation for having waviers to obama health care law of 2010.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/congress-will-probe-special-exemptions-health-care-law-obama-administration-gave-select


The Obama administration’s waivers to temporarily exempt certain companies, unions, and charities from rules established by the new health care law are a “perfect example of special interests” having influence in the administration and will be looked into by Congress, Sen. Charles Grassley, the ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee told CNSNews.com.



CNSNews.com previously reported that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issued waivers to 222 entities – companies, unions and charitable organizations. Among those entities, 45 were labor union organizations. A total of 1,507,418 enrollees were affected by the waivers. More than one-third of the enrollees affected, 512, 315 people, were insured under union health care plans.



The largest beneficiary of waivers is the United Federation of Teachers (UFT), representing New York City public school teachers, with a plan that affects 351,000 enrollees. The UFT is a member organization of the American Federation of Teachers, a major contributor to Democrats. In addition, 10 locals of the United Food and Commercial Workers – also a major Democratic contributor – received HHS waivers

[Tribesman]

I didn't get my inital information from a chain email, but just simply watched a show on TV called Son of Life with Jimmy Swagart's wife Francis stating it.

Bloody hell:rotfl2:
Son life ministries by jimmy swaggart featuring his wife spreading the bad news to get money from the gullible. :hmmm:
Chain e-mails seem a respectable source compared to that.

Checked it out and it is possible, but of course you are right about the pay roll tax thing and such
It is not possible unless they fit the criteria set out in the SSbill and the IRS tax code.
Find a muslim sect that fits those criteria and then you can say it is possible.

I also uncovered other items that are under investigation for having waviers to obama health care law of 2010.

You mean the waivers that were big news a couple of years ago that turned out to simply be empty noise about people who already had coverage that fitted the bill?

[Armistead]

Geesh, what a source.....

[Tribesman]

Geesh, what a source.....
Its even funnier when you look at the claims, they aim to attack muslims and bemoan the lot of christians. Yet all they are really doing is attacking Christians who happen to be a rather different flavour from the televangelist scammers.