Can flak guns sink ships?

[Gustav Schiebert]

Simple really, what it says on the tin.

I recently found an unescourted modern tanker, and with no eels left and my deck gun not fitted, I had to let him go :( Can you use AA flaks to sink ships? In the past using my AA, I have:

set fire to barrels on tankers
blown up small coastal patrol boats
destroyed guns on destroyers and armed merchantmen
blown up the bridge on a damaged merchant
So I assume they can do damage and take oyt certain bits of the ship, as well as sinking the very small ones. But is it possible to sink a ship? Is plugging away at the waterline a waste of time?

[Troublous_Haze]

Theoretically is possible to sink any ship using AA, however for large ships you will be out of AA ammo very soon and you gonna look like jerk after that watching him escaping :D

[mafansiwo]

i used to change the aa gun power。then，you can sink a nelson with one bullet

[Raptor]

I have sunk previously torpedoed - and thus damaged - vessels with my flak guns firing armor-piercing shells when I'm out of eels and deck gun ammo but REALLY want that last ship to go down before returning to port. I even sank undamaged fishing and tug boats with 20mm. :up: However, the amount of time spent on the surface doing so is dangerous as you may suddenly have unwanted contact with aircraft or a destroyer answering the call for help.


However, I don't see any real difference in the amount of apparent damage inflicted by the 37mm vs. 20mm flak.:06: My deck gun has a lot more punch.

I rarely use my flak guns on a patrol

[Pisces]

Stock: maybe
Mods/GWX: doubtfull, they changed the damage system to rely upon flooding. And it doesn't flood by bullet holes. Not enough damage level. Or so I read around here.

[jscharpf]

Haven't been able to do it using the LSH3 mod.

Tried when I was out of torpedoes, emptied my entire ammo pile of AA shells on a small ship. Saw some explosions, probably just eye candy, because the stupid thing just drove off and laughed at me. :doh:

[Raptor]

I do it in GWX.

It just takes a lot of ammo and you have to aim at the waterline.....unless you just like watching deck cargo explode.

Undamaged, I've never sunk anything larger than a small merchant with the flak guns. Small tankers seem especially vulnerable - if they don't have guns of their own.

[Gustav Schiebert]

Well, that seems to settle it. Thanks for all your replies, guys.

I think the lesson is, nothing much bigger than coal tenders is worth even trying. Motor boats, schooners etc, worthwhile - anything else, even if it's possible, you'd need to be on the surface so long it's dangerous.

Having said that I found myself in EXACTLY the same situation last night, one eel on a small merchant and it was struggling along, bow-heavy, so I surfaced and flakked it. I've just got to 1943 and got the new Flakvierling, it made short work of all the superstructures and the thing soon sank. But it may have been going down anyway.

Raptor I think you have it - the flaks are really no use at all, you shouldn't need to sit on the surface to fight off planes. Dive and escape.

[The Dark Wolf]

I always use my flak guns against Elcos they are too fast for the deck gun.
I aim for the stern and that ignites their fuel.

[desertstriker]

stock game it is possible with a heavy flak. sank a passenger liner like that. haven't been able to with any of the super mods though

[Raptor]

if the ship has reveived enough hit points of damage beforehand, it can be sunk by a wave or a few flak rounds.

Another unrealistic aspect of SH3.

[BigRich]

Yes, particularly the heavier flak guns but need to get close in. Anyway, because the merchant ships can literally explode I have lost my whole deck crew and on occassion the sub too after getting caught in the blast.

[Alphafax]

I read this thread to see if it worked, and not 30 minutes ago I actually sank a large merchant ship with my 20mm flaks after having damaged it with a torpedo.

So yeah, at least for me it does work.

These mods are the ones I have listed as activated, btw.

GWX Open Hatch Mod
GWX VIIC41 Player Sub Mod
GWX Lite Harbor Traffic Mod
GWX 16km Atmosphere
GWX Late War Sensors and Snorkel Antennas
WB and evan82's XXI 1939 v1.3
evan82's XXI Autocannon mod

[Gerald]

^Welcome to SubSim Alphafax,:salute: Good luck with your mission.

[Jimbuna]

I read this thread to see if it worked, and not 30 minutes ago I actually sank a large merchant ship with my 20mm flaks after having damaged it with a torpedo.

So yeah, at least for me it does work.

These mods are the ones I have listed as activated, btw.

GWX Open Hatch Mod
GWX VIIC41 Player Sub Mod
GWX Lite Harbor Traffic Mod
GWX 16km Atmosphere
GWX Late War Sensors and Snorkel Antennas
WB and evan82's XXI 1939 v1.3
evan82's XXI Autocannon mod

Wipe out enough points in the damage file and eventually you'll succeed...but all depends on what level of realism you apply.

[allievo]

I read this thread to see if it worked, and not 30 minutes ago I actually sank a large merchant ship with my 20mm flaks after having damaged it with a torpedo.

So yeah, at least for me it does work.

These mods are the ones I have listed as activated, btw.

GWX Open Hatch Mod
GWX VIIC41 Player Sub Mod
GWX Lite Harbor Traffic Mod
GWX 16km Atmosphere
GWX Late War Sensors and Snorkel Antennas
WB and evan82's XXI 1939 v1.3
evan82's XXI Autocannon mod
It might have been the flood caused by your eel that really sank the large merchant. In GWX big ships sometimes tend to finally sink after hours. Your flak could've just speeded her sinking up but she could've gone down anyway.

[jotabe1984]

hi there captains... sorry if i necro this thread but i really had experience with this subject...

1) let me tell you that in 1939, there was at least one ship sinked by type II u-boot using 20mm. i've read about that years ago, i'm trying to point the exact case but there are too many war patrols to review, i will reply with the vessel.

2) many coast guard vessels across the globe use 20 to 40mm guns against merchant ships (mostly fishing ships and factory fishing ships). 100 2cm holes in a hull can make a lot of flooding, furthermore they will surpass the hull and hit machines and other vital components. 20mm and 37mm guns were very capable guns against small (less than 3000tn) ships.

3) This was correctly reflected on stock SH3, in which you could sink a small vessel with around 300 to 400 rounds of 20mm (i've done that in early games consistently). Only tried with small ships like tramp steamers and ships alike. the tactic was to attack at night at less than 100mtr. in Stock version flooding wasn't a key factor so shoothing all over the ship did the trick (better if moving magazine by magazine from bow to stern).

4) GWX3 nerfed all the submarine guns due (mainly) to the fact that they were a little overpowered against aircraft and escort ships compared with real life. Instead of rising the aircraft and escort hitpoints they nerfed all the AA and AS cannons. I guess this was an easier way, don't really know.

5) That change bring up an "unexpected" increase on civilian ships "resistance" to cannons, this was mainly "OK" since it gives a little more of a challenge (nor really) to 88 and 105mm guns.

6) the change also ****ted all over Type II's which now can't shoot anything heavier than 1500tn ship except if previously damaged. (20mm can still ultimate previously torpedoed targets, but be prepared to waste 1/2 your ammo on something like a Granville-Type Frigate already half ass baked by a torp that didn't actually made the trick in order to save the need of 1 extra torp wasted in a not-so-valuable ship).
I repeat, i have tried to sink by 20mm a small passenger ship, 800 rounds after i gave up... the little ship kept going on.

7) While still being posible to finish up a medium sized merchant already damaged, it is a tedious task to do. not so tedious on smaller ship who eat a torp in a bad spot. Only use 20mm for that

8) Haven't tried 37mm, i was wondering if they could aliviate the need for the 105mm since my Type IX only carries 110 rounds, but for what i've read, its almost the same story as the 20mm.

i might edit damage back on 20mm to restore the lost historical accuracy, moreon since i'm not using any AA for intended purposes except in port when air strikes are massive anyway and no AA can save your ass anyway

[Aktungbby]

jotabe1984!:Kaleun_Salute: nice first post!:yeah:

[jotabe1984]

after a (kind of) detailed research i find out these registered 20mm attack on ships by Type II's:

U-3 IIA
sept 30 1939 sinks SS.Vendia (danish 1150tn) torp+20mm gun

U-18 IIB
august 30 1943 sinks patrolcraft (soviet 56tn) 20mm

U-19 IIB
march 19 1940 sink SS. Minsk (danish 1229tn) torp+20mm

U-20 IIB
june 24 1944 sink 4 small motorcraft (all soviets, one of them amphibious craft DB26, 15tn each) 20mm+charges (no further details)

U-22 IIB
november 18 1939 sink SS.Parkhill (british 500tn) 20mm

U-23 IIB
october 4 1939 sink SS.Glen Farg (british 876tn) torp + 20mm
august 24 1943 sink minesweeper TSC-578 (soviet 35tn) 20mm
april 5 1944 sink patrolcraft CS1672 (soviet 56tn) 20mm

U-59 IIC
October 28 1940 sinks 2 fishing boats, St.Nidan (british 565tn) and Lynx II (british, 250tn) 20mm+charges (no further details but by the time of sinking seems like they were both stopped, one sinked by charges and the other ultimated by 20mm)

U-57 IIC
higher score for any Type II, 66mil tn (just added the data for fun)

No type IID ever sinked (or damaged) any ship with their 20mm, U-138 IID holds the highest score for the sub-type 48654 tn. They were the last Type II to be retired from any front (except black sea ships) in late 1941 (so up to 1942 it is historically accurated to use a Type IID, too bad 2nd turret cames in 1943).


FINAL NOTE:
the largest ship ever engaged with a 20mm was 1250tn ship, but the few 1000+tn ship engaged were in fact previously torpedoed.
The largest ship ever engaged exclusively by the usage of 20mm was a 500tn.
It was more frecuently used as repelishment gun against patrolcraft.

At the end of the day the usage GWX3 de facto allows from the 20mm seems like more accurated to the historical usage German captains gave to them. after all despite being "capable" of sinking a larger merchant, no captain on his rightfull mind will stand during hours shooting a merchant that has shurely sent help signal to allied ships

[jotabe1984]

jotabe1984!:Kaleun_Salute: nice first post!:yeah:

Thanks a Lot!

[ArnoldR]

Cool readings!!!:rock: