Connecticut 'gunman dead' after US school shooting

[BossMark]

What hell goes through these tossers minds to go and randomly shoot people children as well :nope:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717
14 December 2012 Last updated at 16:55

[AVGWarhawk]

I truly do not understand why this happens.

[eddie]

Very sad to see this, these kids are from 5 to 10 years old. What kind of threat can they be to anyone, why take your problems out on them? I hope this clown who did this , is really dead. If not, he should be!!

[Armistead]

I just don't understand this. None of this crap happened when I was a kid.

[Buddahaid]

I truly do not understand why this happens.
No rational person ever will.

[eddie]

They are now saying that 27 are dead, 12 are children, of course this can change as more info comes out during the day.

[BossMark]

Latest report on sky news 27 dead :nope: sweet Jesus for a change I am lost for words......

[AVGWarhawk]

Latest report on sky news 27 dead :nope: sweet Jesus for a change I am lost for words......

I just read this as well. WTH? Absolutely senseless. Not to mention the suspect apparently is dead and I assure you at his own hand. :stare:

[eddie]

They are reporting that most of the shootings took place in a Kindergarten class, my God, they are only 5 years old.

[Armistead]

This is beyond words, 18 kids now dead, I just can't imagine this....So, maybe the killer had a screwed up life, who among us hasn't at one point.


Police say there may be a second gunman....how can two nuts agree to do this...if true.

I can see the future, armed teachers, principles and cops at every school

[mookiemookie]

WTF is wrong with people.

And what's even more sad is that in this country this is just the massacre of the week. It happens way too often.

[Armistead]

I just wonder if this is one of those case where someone should've seen it coming or what history this animal may have that was again overlooked.

[Dowly]

Terrible news. :nope:

[BossMark]

This is beyond words, 18 kids now dead, I just can't imagine this....So, maybe the killer had a screwed up life, who among us hasn't at one point.


Police say there may be a second gunman....how can two nuts agree to do this...if true.
Its unbelievable what's happened 27 dead including 18 kids, if there is two of these screwed up twisted sick bastards is still alive then (not sure) capture him or shoot him on the spot or..........

[Armistead]

I can't imagine being a parent there now....waiting.

Fox news.

Seems he gunned down an entire kindergarden class.....

They're saying a second gunman in custody....

[Agiel7]

I for one hope he is alive and well when they put him away, and that the people he showers with have enough sense not to make it quick with a shiv, but slow and painful.

[Stealhead]

They usually do such deeds in the rec yard when the blood is good and flowing of course a person such a that they will place in protective custody with the x cops,child molesters and the guys that ratted on their gang.

[sharkbit]

So sad. I just want to leave work right now, pick my kids up from school, and hug them. :cry:

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

At the moment, they are now saying that 18 of the 27 dead are children.

:nope:

Heartbreaking.

[Oberon]

Another dark day for the States and the world.

[Stealhead]

According to one of the news networks the attacker "was not a stranger" to the school not sure what that means,former employee,volunteer something of this nature.

It was only one person and he either killed himself or the police did right now they just say dead at the scene.

[Spike88]

According to one of the news networks the attacker "was not a stranger" to the school not sure what that means,former employee,volunteer something of this nature.

It was only one person and he either killed himself or the police did right now they just say dead at the scene.

From what I read the First shooter was the son of the teacher in the classroom.

He walked in and shot his mother, and then opened fire on the class. :nope:

[eddie]

The shooter was the son of one of the teachers there, of course he had to shoot his mom then started shooting everyone else. At least he is dead.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-elementary-school-massacre-27-dead-including-18-kids-in-connecticut?lite

I think the reporters ask the most ignorant questions sometimes, they were talking to a parent, and they asked him what he was thinking as he raced to the school to find out if his daughter was ok (she was thank god)

WTH do you think he was thinking about!?! About stopping and getting a burger on the way!?!:88)

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree eddie, some reporters just ask the most dumb questions. I believe the guns were registered to his mother. I also heard he shot his father as well.

[Spike88]

I agree eddie, some reporters just ask the most dumb questions. I believe the guns were registered to his mother. I also heard he shot his father as well.

I can somewhat understand killing his parents if they had done something wrong to him, but there is no way that those kids in the school did anything wrong to him. It's time's like these I hope there is a Hell, so people like this can rot for an eternity in it.

[BossMark]

How easy it to obtain a rifle of that calibre that bastard used, I mean is that easy that while you are out doing your weekly shopping you think "ah I think I will add a assault rifle to my shopping list this week". Because hardly a month goes by without some maniac going on a killing spree in the States.

[eddie]

This picture says it all I think, about what happened today.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/Heartbreakingtragedy_zpsa0ba5311.jpg

[TarJak]

Sad sad news.:nope:

[Oberon]

How easy it to obtain a rifle of that calibre that bastard used, I mean is that easy that while you are out doing your weekly shopping you think "ah I think I will add a assault rifle to my shopping list this week". Because hardly a month goes by without some maniac going on a killing spree in the States.

The problem sometimes lies, not with the shops providing access to assault rifles, but the parents not securing said rifle enough. In this instance it is alleged that the rifle was registered to the gunmans mother, who no doubt went through a fairly strict routine to gain access to it, but it was not her who conducted the shooting spree.

Furthermore, unless you are able to telepathically read a persons mind, then it's quite possible to fib your way through a gun permit test, and get your gun.

Besides, even if they reban Assault rifles, it's not going to stop people using pistols for these kind of rampages, it might lower the body count a little but it won't stop it from happening. Even if you ban guns altogether, the proliferation of weapons in America means that the old saying regarding catapults will come into effect (if you outlaw catapults, only outlaws will have catapults).

EDIT: Oh, and not to make light of this, but someone should start the stopwatch until a media outlet reports that this gunman liked to play Call of Duty or some other FPS. Wait...just wait...

[u crank]

I don't know what to say. Saw it on a TV at the bank on the way home. So sad.

[Armistead]

So many rumors.

CNN said it was a Ryan Lanza, even posted his picture, but Fox reports it was Adam Lanza. Someone did post SS of Ryan's FB where he was stating it wasn't him, he was at work and cussing CNN for posting his picture. Not sure same family.

Who knows, gonna be a mess and a day or so before we know the truth.

[Armistead]

The problem sometimes lies, not with the shops providing access to assault rifles, but the parents not securing said rifle enough. In this instance it is alleged that the rifle was registered to the gunmans mother, who no doubt went through a fairly strict routine to gain access to it, but it was not her who conducted the shooting spree.

Furthermore, unless you are able to telepathically read a persons mind, then it's quite possible to fib your way through a gun permit test, and get your gun.

Besides, even if they reban Assault rifles, it's not going to stop people using pistols for these kind of rampages, it might lower the body count a little but it won't stop it from happening. Even if you ban guns altogether, the proliferation of weapons in America means that the old saying regarding catapults will come into effect (if you outlaw catapults, only outlaws will have catapults).

EDIT: Oh, and not to make light of this, but someone should start the stopwatch until a media outlet reports that this gunman liked to play Call of Duty or some other FPS. Wait...just wait...

Agreed.

Here is the Bushmaster 223, reported gun used, but comes in different versions, certainly not a hunting rifle per say. 30 round mag....
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4920242322145398&pid=1.7&w=207&h=143&c=7&rs=1

[Stealhead]

The problem sometimes lies, not with the shops providing access to assault rifles, but the parents not securing said rifle enough. In this instance it is alleged that the rifle was registered to the gunmans mother, who no doubt went through a fairly strict routine to gain access to it, but it was not her who conducted the shooting spree.

Furthermore, unless you are able to telepathically read a persons mind, then it's quite possible to fib your way through a gun permit test, and get your gun.

Besides, even if they reban Assault rifles, it's not going to stop people using pistols for these kind of rampages, it might lower the body count a little but it won't stop it from happening. Even if you ban guns altogether, the proliferation of weapons in America means that the old saying regarding catapults will come into effect (if you outlaw catapults, only outlaws will have catapults).

EDIT: Oh, and not to make light of this, but someone should start the stopwatch until a media outlet reports that this gunman liked to play Call of Duty or some other FPS. Wait...just wait...

I think that much of what the media is stating is not founded they showed a State Police Officer and he made no mention of what type of fire arms where used only that there where two.One outlet says that one of the victims was the shooters mother yet the officials said nothing of this nature.

Media is media they need something to talk about so they say what they hear true or not.

Their is no gun permit "test" you must pass a background check which if you are a felon or have been certified with serious mental illness you will not be able to buy a fire arm in every state if you buy a hand gun there is a waiting period of a few days it varies by state and you must be 21 years old.To buy a rifle/shotgun/long arm you must be 18 and pass a background check you keep the gun the same day you buy.Of course at a a gun show the rules do not apply and you can also sell a gun privately (legally).At gun shows in many states sales are considered personal sale(like a private sale) and if there is a waiting period it does not apply depending on the state and county.Of course some people steal a legally owned weapon from someone else which is another can of worms.And if you are not a felony and not a verified loony(you may still be one) you'll pass the back ground check just fine.

[Oberon]

So many rumors.

CNN said it was a Ryan Lanza, even posted his picture, but Fox reports it was Adam Lanza. Someone did post SS of Ryan's FB where he was stating it wasn't him, he was at work and cussing CNN for posting his picture. Not sure same family.

Who knows, gonna be a mess and a day or so before we know the truth.

BBC at the moment has Ryan Lanza as being arrested and questioned by the police, but the shooter was apparently his brother Adam. But, yes, like you say, many rumours, as it always is this early in an event.

[Jimbuna]

Reports on UK news are saying he killed his father before going to the school where his mother teaches.

He shot her then opened fire on her pupils.

His dead body is still in the school but it is not yet known how he died.

His younger brother is in Police custody.

I can't begin to imagine how the parents and families of those killed must be feeling :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

I can somewhat understand killing his parents if they had done something wrong to him, but there is no way that those kids in the school did anything wrong to him. It's time's like these I hope there is a Hell, so people like this can rot for an eternity in it.

For a serious lack of any other way to say this, he was pulling a, "I'll show you" at his mother. He had hand guns. Not the fully auto that randomly hits the target. The hand guns were up close, personal and final. I would say his mother was not the first target. She was to experience the horror first. Sadistic? Yes. I do believe this would have been his plan.

[eddie]

I know one thing Jim, for years to come, those who lost children today, will never view the Christmas season the same way again. It will be more pain then happiness. I know it would be for me.

[Oberon]

I know one thing Jim, for years to come, those who lost children today, will never view the Christmas season the same way again. It will be more pain then happiness. I know it would be for me.


Alas, too true.

[Jimbuna]

I know one thing Jim, for years to come, those who lost children today, will never view the Christmas season the same way again. It will be more pain then happiness. I know it would be for me.

Most definitely :yep:

[Stealhead]

This is what the New York Times says:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school.html?_r=0

[Kpt. Lehmann]

This picture says it all I think, about what happened today.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/Heartbreakingtragedy_zpsa0ba5311.jpg

Without a doubt, eddie.

Those poor people.

Something tells me that this picture will be one that is remembered sadly for a long time.
(It is my understanding that the young lady in this picture was trying to find out if her sister, a teacher at the school, was okay. The outcome of her phone call was not given.)

[August]

How easy it to obtain a rifle of that calibre that bastard used, I mean is that easy that while you are out doing your weekly shopping you think "ah I think I will add a assault rifle to my shopping list this week". Because hardly a month goes by without some maniac going on a killing spree in the States.

He didn't use a rifle, he had one in the trunk of his car but he used pistols.

[Jimbuna]

Doesn't look too promising :hmm2:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

CNN is now reporting that 20 of the dead are children.

[Oberon]

CNN is now reporting that 20 of the dead are children.

BBC have been saying the same thing for a while. 18 dead on the scene, two died in hospital, one also injured in hospital but still alive apparently.

[mapuc]

I really don't know what to say-I'm out of words. Since I heard about it first time I had this pain in my breast about how evil some can be against innocent children.

My head is filled with many thoughts

Such as-Now these pro-weapon type(sorry can't remember the exact word) will now facing a hard time

Markus

[eddie]

One story line I heard , said that some of the local policemen had kids going there, although I haven't heard if any were hurt. But I can't imagine what it would be like for them, while searching the school, to find one of their children lost in this tragedy.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

DAMN IT!

I mean REALLY!

What sick twisted psychotic piece of filth, walks into a school, and shoots children before Christmas??? (or at any other time for that matter.)

Part of me wants to pray for the families... and the other part of me wants to smash things.

... and the look on the EMS workers' faces gets me too. They show up hoping to help... and there is little they can do... with more dead than injured. That feeling sucks so deeply.

I wish I could be there to help do something for someone.

[Jimbuna]

Hell must have a special place for filth like this.

[August]

Hell must have a special place for filth like this.


Oh but as some folks will tell you there is no such thing as hell or heaven. There are no consequences for this animal at all, either in this world or the next.

[eddie]

DAMN IT!

I mean REALLY!

What sick twisted psychotic piece of filth, walks into a school, and shoots children before Christmas??? (or at any other time for that matter.)

Part of me wants to pray for the families... and the other part of me wants to smash things.

... and the look on the EMS workers' faces gets me too. They show up hoping to help... and there is little they can do... with more dead than injured. That feeling sucks so deeply.

I wish I could be there to help do something for someone.

I think everyone who has heard of this tragedy, feels the same way.I know I do!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Hell must have a special place for filth like this.

Amen to that, brother.

[Jimbuna]

Oh but as some folks will tell you there is no such thing as hell or heaven. There are no consequences for this animal at all, either in this world or the next.

Do they still have a death penalty in Connecticut?

I appreciate the git is dead.

[Stealhead]

Oh but as some folks will tell you there is no such thing as hell or heaven. There are no consequences for this animal at all, either in this world or the next.

I do not agree with those types they cant prove that they are right when gets right down to it can they?

[Armistead]

Oh but as some folks will tell you there is no such thing as hell or heaven. There are no consequences for this animal at all, either in this world or the next.

I don't care if there is a hell for him, the fact is if hell is true the majority of decent humanity will go there, not just scum....

Long as he's dead is good enough for me.

[fithah4]

I am really tired of hearing about all these shootings and not much response in quick justice and proper control of weapons.
I really believe it is in the up bringing of the children. In Balitimore during the 80's it was drugs and shootings for clothes and shoes. And it has just progressed down hill to even more sickened events.
Coming up as a child I was taught about guns and respect with them and respecting my elders, not saying that my childhood was rosy HELL NO!!!!
But during visits to my grand parents at hunting season the guns were leaning by the front door and we were taught not to mess around them until with an adult and supervised out side.


WE as the nation need to say that we are not going to stand for this and justice will be swift and public to get the meaning across to the KNUCKLE HEADS.

[Skybird]

Hell is a man-made state of mind, and it finds very many manifestations therefore every day, anywhere in the world. It's just that we take the less notice of and care for it the more distant to us it happens, and we take the more notice of it the closer the impacts come.

[fithah4]

So after ranting my thoughts what I was trying to get out was the shooting in the Colorado theater { not naming him for no credit or glory}... why do we need to psycho-analyze the person(SHOOTER) when caught at the scene with the evidence and found out it was premeditated .
My case in very strong point was the D.C. Shooter (s) !

I mean come on enough is enough, they get put up in jail and then the investigation feed and clothe them drive them to court hearings and psychologist for one to two years while the families are suffering.

My heart goes out the the victims families, very sad to hear this...this time of year and any other time as well.

[Armistead]

I am really tired of hearing about all these shootings and not much response in quick justice and proper control of weapons.
I really believe it is in the up bringing of the children. In Balitimore during the 80's it was drugs and shootings for clothes and shoes. And it has just progressed down hill to even more sickened events.
Coming up as a child I was taught about guns and respect with them and respecting my elders, not saying that my childhood was rosy HELL NO!!!!
But during visits to my grand parents at hunting season the guns were leaning by the front door and we were taught not to mess around them until with an adult and supervised out side.
WE as the nation need to say that we are not going to stand for this and justice will be swift and public to get the meaning across to the KNUCKLE HEADS.

Culture has changed. When I was in high school, many of us had our rifles on our gun racks in our trucks so we could get an afternoon of hunting in. There were no cops, metal detectors, etc.....You never heard of school shootings. What few mass shootings we had were of a political nature.

[August]

Do they still have a death penalty in Connecticut?

I appreciate the git is dead.

Yes they do.

[Tribesman]

Yes they do.
Yes and No.
Yes for people already convicted and waiting on death row.
No for anyone else convicted for crimes since spring when it was abolished.

[geetrue]

Principal Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung was one of the slain:

The longtime educator's career seemed to be peaking when she became principal two years ago of Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, which has 525 pupils from kindergarten to fourth grade.


That is one big school 525 students ... they need comforting and counceling over this for sure. If we can't figure it out ... how can they ever figure out what happened?

The shooter shot his mother in her home near the school. She was a teacher at the Sandy Hook school and then he stole her guns which were all registered to her, before he went on his shooting spree.

Sad, tragic, nothing we can do for the dead, but pray for their parents and the poor children and adults that witnessed it.

At least the shooter didn't purchase the guns used, but you know the cries to limit what a citzen can have and how many you can have ... will have already started.

[Stealhead]

525 students is not really that large that is around the average for a grade school these days in the US and some high schools have over 2,000 students in larger cities.I grew up in small town and there where about 600 kids in my grade school K-5 that was in the late 70's early 80's.

Why does it make a difference how he acquired the guns to be honest?I have feeling that this event is going to have an effect on gun laws in some way like it or not even though this issue is more complex than just firearms.Though to be honest even being a gun owner myself there a lot of things that I don't really see as something anyone really needs like the high capacity pistol magazines for example Glock makes a 33 rounder no one needs that and no one needs a 75,50,or 100 round drum magazine for a rifle either.

[Takeda Shingen]

500-600 is pretty average for a public elementary school.

[RickC Sniper]

This tragedy simply broke my heart today. There has been too much of this kind of insanity lately and perhaps the saddest part is that there will be more to come.

[Armistead]

525 students is not really that large that is around the average for a grade school these days in the US and some high schools have over 2,000 students in larger cities.I grew up in small town and there where about 600 kids in my grade school K-5 that was in the late 70's early 80's.

Why does it make a difference how he acquired the guns to be honest?I have feeling that this event is going to have an effect on gun laws in some way like it or not even though this issue is more complex than just firearms.Though to be honest even being a gun owner myself there a lot of things that I don't really see as something anyone really needs like the high capacity pistol magazines for example Glock makes a 33 rounder no one needs that and no one needs a 75,50,or 100 round drum magazine for a rifle either.

Yea, this is gonna turn into a gun issue, but the simple truth will remain, any criminal can get guns, clips, bullets they want, etc...to commit a crime. You could saw off two shotguns, take the plugs out and throw them over each shoulder and do as much damage. We've been a gun culture since our creation, hundreds of millions of guns out there, no law will change it.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Absolutely horrible.

But again, the issue is the same. Do you think a psycho willing to go to this length to commit atrocities will abide by a gun law? since when have psychos and criminals alike ever cared about abiding by the law? It would only drive the market into the underground even further, with more illegal suppliers. Banning guns outright will solve little for crimes like these. In fact it may just drive people to use other weapons, as Britain's high knife crime rate shows.

stricter guns laws can still be easily surpassed. It's not hard to be a future criminal and still pass the credentials needed to own weaponry. Besides, this guy stole it from his (presumably) sane mother, who he shot.

[Armistead]

What I find interesting is all these guns belonged to the mother. It's usually not typical for a mother/teacher to have such weapons as a 223 assault type rifle and two pistols. She had to know her child was suffering from mental issues, making having such guns even more strange. I hope that her ill son didn't convince her to buy them for him as a hoppy, etc...

Something about her having these guns just doesn't make sense to me.

[Stealhead]

Why would that be strange for a teacher to own firearms? That does not seem unusual to me.Is it strange for a baker to own a gun or a dentist?

We do not know what the story is here the young man might never have displayed a single behavior to imply that he had a mental illness.Perhaps he lived on his own he was 20 years old and simply showed up at the mothers house that seems likely to me or that eh lived there but never before gave a reason for the mother to suspect that her son had some illness.People tend to assume that every spree killer just had issues for years how could they miss it?The media likes this angle I think because it gives an explanation the person must have been whacked out for years.

Maybe not maybe the person just went over the edge of whatever in the weeks prior to the incident and no one close to them noticed any change most likely a person with such intent would make great efforts hide that had such plans.

I do not agree with the ban every gun thing but to say that something else is as deadly as a firearm is a false hood.A firearm is very deadly and makes killing very easy and at close range a person does not even have to be very accurate to kill.There is a reason why the gun become the weapon of choice over time that reason is because it is a very easy to use and very effective killing tool.

[Armistead]

Why would that be strange for a teacher to own firearms? That does not seem unusual to me.Is it strange for a baker to own a gun or a dentist?

We do not know what the story is here the young man might never have displayed a single behavior to imply that he had a mental illness.Perhaps he lived on his own he was 20 years old and simply showed up at the mothers house that seems likely to me or that eh lived there but never before gave a reason for the mother to suspect that her son had some illness.People tend to assume that every spree killer just had issues for years how could they miss it?The media likes this angle I think because it gives an explanation the person must have been whacked out for years.

Maybe not maybe the person just went over the edge of whatever in the weeks prior to the incident and no one close to them noticed any change most likely a person with such intent would make great efforts hide that had such plans.

I do not agree with the ban every gun thing but to say that something else is as deadly as a firearm is a false hood.A firearm is very deadly and makes killing very easy and at close range a person does not even have to be very accurate to kill.There is a reason why the gun become the weapon of choice over time that reason is because it is a very easy to use and very effective killing tool.

It's not typical for a woman to own such guns, though some surely do. They're several clear reports from the shooters friends that he is "mentally challenged" and suffered from several disorders. Based on that, it certainly doesn't make sense for her to have such guns since he was living with her. It doesn't make sense on too many levels.....

[Stealhead]

I disagree on the gun ownership deal plenty of women own handguns such as a Glock 17 or 19 and plenty also own Sigs and plenty of women own M4s or similar rifles.Your stereotyping to some extent.You would be surprised what many women own these days.

http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=704538#.UMwpHuTLTfg

Until I hear the actual law enforcement report on this matter any other report is purely hearsay.

[BossMark]

My heart goes to all the the family's involved in this terrible crime, and I agree with what Jim said in an earlier post.
"Hell must have a special place for filth like this".

[Jimbuna]

Not really wanting to get involved with that hot potato the gun debate that is ongoing in America but I firmly believe it is the gun owner and not the weapon that should be considered.

[HunterICX]

Tragic...terribly tragic.
I'm at a lost of words on this one :nope:

HunterICX

[Aces]

So sad, can't find the words to say more.

Our thoughts are with the families.

Kind regards

Leigh (Aces)

[Dread Knot]

Culture has changed. When I was in high school, many of us had our rifles on our gun racks in our trucks so we could get an afternoon of hunting in. There were no cops, metal detectors, etc.....You never heard of school shootings. What few mass shootings we had were of a political nature.

I thought the same thing until I remembered then 16-year old Brenda Ann Spencer, who in 1979 instigated a shooting spree upon an elementary school from her bedroom window, killing two and injuring nine. Her now infamous rationale. "I don't like Mondays."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer

At age 50, we're still supporting her in prison. I have a feeling that the Sandy Hook Elementary killer's motives whatever they are will be as as unsatisfying and baffling as her's were then.

[mookiemookie]

The perfect solution fallacy is going to rear its head a lot in the coming days and weeks. "We shouldn't do anything in regards to gun laws because criminals will still have guns no matter what!" Complete eradication of gun violence is not the expected outcome. Making it harder for people who shouldn't have guns to get them is.

In any case, I still think our time, energy and money would be better spent increasing access to mental health care. I think we've seen in graphic detail lately what sort of effect untreated mental health issues can have on society.

I cannot, on any level, see how someone can murder babies because of some issue that they had. I have no clue what was going on in this person's life, but I cannot imagine any scenario where the logical course of action would be to do what he did. It's absolutely baffling. I guess trying to make sense of it is a futile exercise.

Absolutely shameful.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

It is indeed a sad thing when something such as this happens. My first thoughts were "WTF is wrong with these people!!!!", and now begins the processing of who, what and why. Frankly I do find that in the US that it takes a major shooting where many lives are lost before the pro gun control and pro gun rights people start to talk is quite unsettling.There always should be talks of how to better control guns and improve public safety overall without having to sit and wait until the next mass shooting happens. I have no doubt that the coming days will be a sandwich filled with talks of the shooting, the shooter(s), pros and cons of gun control with smatterings of fiscal cliff dealings. :nope::nope::nope:

[geetrue]

Lot of misinformaion going on ...

First of all the shooter (gunman Adam Lanza's) mother wasn't even a teacher at the Sandy Hook school and her home wasn't even near the school, but located way across town.

The shooter had tried to purchase a gun at a local Connecticut gun store on tuesday
(note that's the same day the shooting at the shopping mall in Portland, Oregon took place)
and he was denied.

The reason given was that he would have to wait for the gun.

That was on the 11th of December on the 13th of December just two days later the shooter got into some kind of
altercation with four adults at the Sandy Hook school.

Three of those adults died the next day on friday the 14th of December.

One of the four that he had a problem with was not at school that day.

The shooter did not get buzzed in past the new security system that the principal had just installed that wouldn't even let a parent in
without ID on the day in question, but forced his way in wearing a bullet poof vest with four weapons firing over hundred shots
before taking his own life.

Spells premeditated murder of his mother and then took his anger out on those poor little children at the Sandy Hook school.

Hell is where the damed go to wait for the final verdict ...
it is not a resting place :o

[Jimbuna]

Hell is where the damed go to wait for the final verdict ...
it is not a resting place :o

You may well be right.

[August]

but forced his way in wearing a bullet poof vest with four weapons

Two weapons, not four, both pistols. He left the rifles in the car, probably because they aren't as well suited for mass murder as handguns.

[u crank]

Still coming to grips with this as I'm sure so many others are. When ever I think about it or see it on the news my head and my heart ache. I can make no sense of it. I'm not a great sleeper and every time I woke last night this came into my mind. And the survivors. How do you explain to six and seven year old children the meaning of this? Will they ever get over it?

I have no answers, only questions.

But this comes to mind...

"This great evil. Where does it come from? How'd it steal into the world? What seed, what root did it grow from? Who's doin' this? Who's killin' us? Robbing us of life and light. Mockin' us with the sight of what we might've known. Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too? Have you passed through this night?"

[Jimbuna]

Latest update from the VBC...not sure how accurate it is though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20738998

[Armistead]

Two weapons, not four, both pistols. He left the rifles in the car, probably because they aren't as well suited for mass murder as handguns.

Reports differ, CNN reporting he had 4 guns, but carried 3 in the school, including the 223, left one in the car. They also reported several other guns found at the mothers house. Others are saying he carried only the pistols in. That makes more sense to me.

Time will tell.

Course the liberal media is making it a big gun issue.

[Biggles]

Course the liberal media is making it a big gun issue.

Shouldn't they? I'm not gonna linger on the subject since it's non of my business, not being an American and all, but it seems to me that some sort of change has to be made regarding weapons in your country...

Regardless, it's a horrible story indeed, and I am sincerely sorry for anyone who is in any way affected by it.

[Oberon]

Two weapons, not four, both pistols. He left the rifles in the car, probably because they aren't as well suited for mass murder as handguns.

Coroner has just announced that the primary weapon used was a rifle.

[August]

Coroner has just announced that the primary weapon used was a rifle.


Link? No mention of that in any news source I could find.

[Armistead]

Police briefing....the 223 was the primary weapon...most children were shot numerous times with the 223. I think the Coroner said all had been shot more than once.

[Jimbuna]

This link suggests six weapons in total:


CNN is reporting Lanza had six guns - three more than previously thought. It is believed he used three at school including a Bushmaster assault rifle, while police have now found three more rifles at the second crime scene.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9746267/Connecticut-school-shooting-live.html

[Armistead]

Shouldn't they? I'm not gonna linger on the subject since it's non of my business, not being an American and all, but it seems to me that some sort of change has to be made regarding weapons in your country...

Regardless, it's a horrible story indeed, and I am sincerely sorry for anyone who is in any way affected by it.

We in fact have made many changes. These areas have strict gun rules. The fact is we're a culture of guns, we have hundreds of millions of them, registered and not.

My only wish is any gun dealer must be a brick and mortar building, trained and certified with all aspects of guns and training. We have too many out of truck dealers.

These acts will continue.

[August]

Police briefing....the 223 was the primary weapon...

Then they must have found another weapon. The bushmaster was found in the trunk of the car. Saw them pull it out of there last night and all day they have been saying the killer was found with only two pistols on him.

[August]

This link suggests six weapons in total:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9746267/Connecticut-school-shooting-live.html


Odd because CNN's own website says nothing about that.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/children-and-adults-gunned-down-in-connecticut-school-massacre/?hpt=hp_t1

[Updated at 3:55 p.m. ET] The state's chief medical examiner says he believes all of the victims were shot more than once.
The medical examiner, H. Wayne Carver II, speaking at a news conference in Newtown, said that all of the victims died of gunshot wounds, and the manner of death was homicide. The seven bodies he examined personally had three to 11 wounds each, he said.
“I believe everyone was hit more than once,” Carver said.
Postmortem examinations have been performed on all of the children; examinations of most of the adult bodies will be finished by this evening, Carver said.
Examinations of the bodies of Adam Lanza and his mother will be performed Sunday, Carver said. Lanza died at the school; his mother was killed at her home in Newtown, authorities have said.
Police said a list of the victims' names would soon be published.

[mapuc]

You know what? I read this here and there I hear this and this here and there

I wait until the final police report arrive.

Markus

[Armistead]

I don't know, all the stations have been reporting so many rumors and crap.

Obvious this woman had numerous guns, including two 223's.

I live in NC and some stations here and so called friends of hers saying she was a gun collector, one of those types believed the world was gonna collapse and she was gonna be ready.

[Armistead]

Odd because CNN's own website says nothing about that.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/children-and-adults-gunned-down-in-connecticut-school-massacre/?hpt=hp_t1

Did you miss the last Coroner and Police briefing...?

[Jimbuna]

There is that much ongoing news updates out there it is getting hard to keep up :doh:

[August]

Did you miss the last Coroner and Police briefing...?

I'm not doubting you guys, just saying I've been following CNN's live blog all day and nothing about that has been published. You'll note that the blog post I quoted is their recap of the conference.

[Oberon]

I'm not doubting you guys, just saying I've been following CNN's live blog all day and nothing about that has been published. You'll note that the blog post I quoted is their recap of the conference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20744701

It'll probably come up on CNN shortly, like Jim says, just takes a while for the news to trickle down. If anything that's probably a good thing because it gives it more time to be contradicted or dismissed, but in this case I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that it won't be.

EDIT: Ah, there it is:

[Updated at 4:11 p.m. ET] More on what the state's chief medical examiner told reporters minutes ago in Newtown: He said the "rifle" was used in the shooting, and that the rifle caused all of the wounds that he knew of.
He didn't say what that rifle was, but a law enforcement source has previously said that the gunman was found dead with next to three guns: a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer.
The medical examiner, H. Wayne Carver II, said he personally did postmortem examinations of seven victims' bodies.
“All the wounds that I know of at this point were caused by the one weapon,” Carver said.

[eddie]

They have released the names of the victims, all adults killed were women, all the children killed were 6 and 7 years old.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15930533-names-of-school-shooting-victims-released?lite

[Catfish]

Terribly sorry. What is WRONG there ? This is not the first school shooting.
News media in Germany say that the murderer used a submachine gun, apart from other weapons.


I don't know, if you see that more than 50 percent of the PC and playstation games focuse on shooting other people with all kinds of guns, rifles and whatnot (and the military itself having an own branch of developers for their own type of 'game' to attract young people and 'prepare' them, mentally) i wonder if it does not somehow has an impact on the mindset of some, i mean if the whole culture and children's play nowadays deals with that kind of stuff .. (?)
No i do not think that video games alone are responsible for such events, but if a not so standfast kid only plays such stuff for years, don't you think he might get used to this kind of thinking, and action.


edit:
As an 'answer', the National rifle association has just proposed to arm teachers and pupils, so they can shoot back in the future.
:huh:

Dear NRA,
if this is all that comes to your mind regarding this, i hope the spokesman of yours who proposed this 'solution' gets a big gun rammed up his ass, indeed i feel the strong urge to come over and do this myself !
And i will gladly go to the brig for having said this. :nope:

[Armistead]

The NRA has always been for arming teachers, I've never heard them say we should arm pupils. I do think the future will be certain teachers/admin will be armed with weapons that require fingerprint safety technology.

Sadly, it appears this will be a case of a terribly mentally ill young man..

[August]

Dear NRA,
if this is all that comes to your mind regarding this, i hope the spokesman of yours who proposed this 'solution' gets a big gun rammed up his ass, indeed i feel the strong urge to come over and do this myself !
And i will gladly go to the brig for having said this. :nope:

The last thing we need is some aggressive rhetoric from some foreign clown. You worry about your own country and we'll worry about ours.

[u crank]

They have released the names of the victims, all adults killed were woman, all the children killed were 6 and 7 years old.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15930533-names-of-school-shooting-victims-released?lite

Apparently some of these women, including the principal, died protecting children or trying to disarm shooter.

[Jimbuna]

Apparently some of these women, including the principal, died protecting children or trying to disarm shooter.

Heroes one and all...God Bless Em :rock:

[Platapus]

This is one of the problems with 24/7 news reporting: There is no 24/7 flow of information.:nope:

It takes time to gather the information about this attack. But since the public expects all the information an hour after the attack, the news media, instead of just being honest ("no information has been reported") tend to report information from unreliable sources.

In today's entertainment/news media, an inaccurate report first is always better than an accurate report the next day. :nope:

We really need to let the authorities have the time to gather and then report the actual facts and not just an "unidentified source not authorized to speak"'s opinion. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

^ Great and accurate post :yep:

[mookiemookie]

As an 'answer', the National rifle association has just proposed to arm teachers and pupils, so they can shoot back in the future.
:huh:

Anyone that seriously thinks that this is the answer is part of the problem.

[Cybermat47]

Now the lack of a hell makes me sad.

[mapuc]

This is one of the problems with 24/7 news reporting: There is no 24/7 flow of information.:nope:

It takes time to gather the information about this attack. But since the public expects all the information an hour after the attack, the news media, instead of just being honest ("no information has been reported") tend to report information from unreliable sources.

In today's entertainment/news media, an inaccurate report first is always better than an accurate report the next day. :nope:

We really need to let the authorities have the time to gather and then report the actual facts and not just an "unidentified source not authorized to speak"'s opinion. :yep:

Well said

I also await the police report.

Markus

[Factor]

I own a M4A3 carbine. The exact same rifle used to murder those babies. I think Monday, I am calling the sheriff to come get this thing, if he can assure me that this thing will be destroyed.

I will keep my handguns, but I dont need this thing, We dont need this thing. crazy.

I have a 5 yr old beautiful daughter, that I can hardly look at tonight without tearing up. Shes my life, and if anything ever happened to her, I would be buried right beside her, I promise you that.

Hug your kids tight. Let them know.

[Takeda Shingen]

I do think the future will be certain teachers/admin will be armed with weapons that require fingerprint safety technology.

I doubt that any school board will ever sanction the arming of district personnel. The district that I worked in had unarmed roaming uniformed security guards at the middle and high school level. It seems far more likely that this type of security will be at the elementary school.

[mapuc]

I have a friend on FB And he is adamantly in favor of 2 amendment. it happens that his friends come with proposals on changes to this constitution, those times it happens, he becomes very angry. I have visited his wall and seen some of his friends to be very tough on him.

Markus

[Sailor Steve]

Anyone that seriously thinks that this is the answer is part of the problem.
I don't pretend to know one way or the other, but the reported facts are that at least two of the teachers died trying to rush the gunman.

[Armistead]

I doubt that any school board will ever sanction the arming of district personnel. The district that I worked in had unarmed roaming uniformed security guards at the middle and high school level. It seems far more likely that this type of security will be at the elementary school.

An unarmed guard is useless in a gun attack. I agree guns aren't the best answer, but with school funding low, we're not going to spend the money to bring schools up where they should be. Seems this school took strong security measures and the state has some of the strongest gun laws, neither stopped this nut.

Heck, in our rural district, poor county, they don't even practice lock downs any anyone can walk in any school.

Course we arm teachers, eventually we'll have a story of a nut teacher going off in class and shooting a student....

[Takeda Shingen]

An unarmed guard is useless in a gun attack.

In the attack? Maybe. In preventing an attack? Not at all.

Every school that I have ever worked in had all doors locked during normal school hours. As such, there was no way in. In the high school and middle schools I worked in, there was security at the main entrance and several security personnel roving the building all day checking for, among other things, the state of the doors to the outside and non-tagged individuals.

However, in every elementary school I worked in, where there were no security personnel, there was also an 'underground' way into the building. There was always a certain exit, usually in the back or in some low-traffic area, that maintenance would conveniently 'forget' to lock every day, as sort of a quick in-and-out for not only the maintenance, but for less dedicated teachers that would sneak out during prep periods for coffee and whatnot. The lack of roving security meant that these entrances went unchecked. Every teacher in the school knew what door to use. In fact, I have seen the adult children of teachers visit their parents through those doors as well, and I would wager that Friday's killer knew about such an entrance, and probably used it himself in the past. Getting in, even with a rifle, would have been child's play.

[Armistead]

In the attack? Maybe. In preventing an attack? Not at all.

Every school that I have ever worked in had all doors locked during normal school hours. As such, there was no way in. In the high school and middle schools I worked in, there was security at the main entrance and several security personnel roving the building all day checking for, among other things, the state of the doors to the outside and non-tagged individuals.

However, in every elementary school I worked in, where there were no security personnel, there was also an 'underground' way into the building. There was always a certain exit, usually in the back or in some low-traffic area, that maintenance would conveniently 'forget' to lock every day, as sort of a quick in-and-out for not only the maintenance, but for less dedicated teachers that would sneak out during prep periods for coffee and whatnot. The lack of roving security meant that these entrances went unchecked. Every teacher in the school knew what door to use. In fact, I have seen the adult children of teachers visit their parents through those doors as well, and I would wager that Friday's killer knew about such an entrance, and probably used it himself in the past. Getting in, even with a rifle, would have been child's play.

In my sons last school district in the "city" each school had a cop. Let's face it, if someone wants to do this, not much will stop them.

[August]

This reminds me of what one of my students did for a job when stationed in Afghanistan.

His platoon escorted children from their homes and villages to school every day, stayed all day providing perimeter security while classes were held, sometimes taking sniper and mortar fire, then they escorted them back home afterwards. Every day.

God bless them for their service but if we're willing to do that for foreign children then I don't want to hear we can't afford to have an armed guard at our schools and if properly qualified teachers and principles want keep a weapon they can get to in such an emergency then I don't want to hear some administrator deny them the right to defend themselves and their charges.

[AVGWarhawk]

August, my kids school has a county officer on campus everyday. Not a rent a cop. This is a armed officer and can affect arrest like any other cop.. Officer Hubbard. Great guy. The students like him. He takes no crap. Glad he is there.

[August]

August, my kids school has a county officer on campus everyday. Not a rent a cop. This is a armed officer and can affect arrest like any other cop.. Officer Hubbard. Great guy. The students like him. He takes no crap. Glad he is there.

Good. If we can have cops guard roadside construction sites and fat cat politician motorcades then we can darn well have one guard the entrance to the building that contains our future. I have no children of my own but i'd be willing to see my property taxes rise to pay for him to be there.

Had there been one in Sandy Hook he could have made the difference.

[Stealhead]

In Florida they call them a school resource officer usually they are county deputies but they might be police in some schools even at elementary schools there is one there full time most high schools have one or two and I assume that large school might have more.They are very good to have around when you have an angry or estranged parent shows up at a school which is not too uncommon.Of course they are useful for many other reasons.

It has been like that at least where I went to school for a long time they started having the officers back a year or so before I graduated high school in the early 90's.I notice that there has never been a mass shooting in a Florida school so far.In my school when I was there even fights where fairly rare and I am pretty sure that the presence of a law enforcement officer was the reason why prior to the program there had been a lot of trouble with mostly wanna be(a wanna be is bad enough) gang bangers causing trouble after the program that ended in a matter a days.

[Armistead]

Good. If we can have cops guard roadside construction sites and fat cat politician motorcades then we can darn well have one guard the entrance to the building that contains our future. I have no children of my own but i'd be willing to see my property taxes rise to pay for him to be there.

Had there been one in Sandy Hook he could have made the difference.

They're 1000's of retired cops that would love the income....Fact is many States do have them, but many still do not.

[Stealhead]

I bet that will change.

[BossMark]

I don't pretend to know one way or the other, but the reported facts are that at least two of the teachers died trying to rush the gunman.
And I saw it on BBC news this morning that one teacher died protecting her pupils. And none them was hurt in the attack.

[Jimbuna]

This article is six hours old but it would appear the children were mainly girls and aged between six and seven.

I didn't read it all...I found it too distressing :nope:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20744701

[Skybird]

School shootings are not exclusively an American phenomenon, but America by far leads the list.

It also is no new phenomenon in America, but has been with America since the very beginning of its history as a colony and founding nation. The earliest school shooting probably was more an act of war than personal problems, in mid-18th century four Indians went into a school and shoot several children and teachers. In the mid-19th century I read there was the first personally motivated school killing, a man shooting the director becasue of having punished his brother. At that time the media already took note of weapons more and mor eoften being brought to school.

Same for killing sprees in general. It is not exclusively American,. but America leads the list. For example if you sort this followiung list by country you see that the US logs in 4-5 as many incidents than all other nations of North and South America together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Americas

Gun laws alone will not do anything, since the root of the problem is most likely both a problem of culture and attitude. Different attitude is casued by culture in the form of media influence, education by parents, traditions passed on, and of cxourse: social variable like biographic youth quality, poverty levels, unemployment levels. Gun laws must be part of adressing issues on these levels - and these levels are what make it so difficult to tackle the problem. You cannot just change the realities in a whole country over night, even less so when the state is bancrupt and in principle is impotent to act due to empty treasure chests. In the case of the US, another obstacle adds to the list, the extreme fetishism for weapons, and like in the rest opf the West at varying degrees as well: the media interest in sensational reporting and exaggerating stories that focus on violence and brutality, from news to blockbusters. It's what i call the cultural climate - and that is one of violence, weapons, and - fear. Because think of the man what you want, I do not personally like him at all, but Michael Moore got many things very very right in his first and most famous movie, Bowling for Columbine. What he said there about the American climate of fear is 110% right on target.

There will be a lot of tamtam being made about this latest shooting incident, in the end, nothing effective will be done, and the interest will fade, things settle down, the families get forgotten, and then the next shooting will come. Pretty much running by routine by now, I would say. And weapon lobbyists will do their share to emotionally stir the fire against any kind of measurements threatening the big profits being made by selling weapons so loosely like I think in no other civilised country in the world. And what military weapons like SARs have to do in private living rooms, I will never understand. But plenty of excuses will be given to allow their selling, but in past years I always saw these excuses as illustrations of this deep deep fetishism for weapons and firearms there is. I think this is a mjaor part of the puzzle: to get this fascination for heavy firepower out of people'S heads. Self-defence - has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it. It is not practicable to hide an SAR under your coat in the subway for self defence, a small 9mm would perfectly do the job - or are you planning to leave the train at a station called Afghanistan...?

[reignofdeath]

School shootings are not exclusively an American phenomenon, but America by far leads the list.

It also is no new phenomenon in America, but has been with America since the very beginning of its history as a colony and founding nation. The earliest school shooting probably was more an act of war than personal problems, in mid-18th century four Indians went into a school and shoot several children and teachers. In the mid-19th century I read there was the first personally motivated school killing, a man shooting the director becasue of having punished his brother. At that time the media already took note of weapons more and mor eoften being brought to school.

Same for killing sprees in general. It is not exclusively American,. but America leads the list. For example if you sort this followiung list by country you see that the US logs in 4-5 as many incidents than all other nations of North and South America together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Americas

Gun laws alone will not do anything, since the root of the problem is most likely both a problem of culture and attitude. Different attitude is casued by culture in the form of media influence, education by parents, traditions passed on, and of cxourse: social variable like biographic youth quality, poverty levels, unemployment levels. Gun laws must be part of adressing issues on these levels - and these levels are what make it so difficult to tackle the problem. You cannot just change the realities in a whole country over night, even less so when the state is bancrupt and in principle is impotent to act due to empty treasure chests. In the case of the US, another obstacle adds to the list, the extreme fetishism for weapons, and like in the rest opf the West at varying degrees as well: the media interest in sensational reporting and exaggerating stories that focus on violence and brutality, from news to blockbusters. It's what i call the cultural climate - and that is one of violence, weapons, and - fear. Because think of the man what you want, I do not personally like him at all, but Michael Moore got many things very very right in his first and most famous movie, Bowling for Columbine. What he said there about the American climate of fear is 110% right on target.

There will be a lot of tamtam being made about this latest shooting incident, in the end, nothing effective will be done, and the interest will fade, things settle down, the families get forgotten, and then the next shooting will come. Pretty much running by routine by now, I would say. And weapon lobbyists will do their share to emotionally stir the fire against any kind of measurements threatening the big profits being made by selling weapons so loosely like I think in no other civilised country in the world. And what military weapons like SARs have to do in private living rooms, I will never understand. But plenty of excuses will be given to allow their selling, but in past years I always saw these excuses as illustrations of this deep deep fetishism for weapons and firearms there is. I think this is a mjaor part of the puzzle: to get this fascination for heavy firepower out of people'S heads. Self-defence - has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it. It is not practicable to hide an SAR under your coat in the subway for self defence, a small 9mm would perfectly do the job - or are you planning to leave the train at a station called Afghanistan...?

The 2nd amendmant. If they want to own one they should be able to. Im all for stricter restrictions (Double negative? lol) on ARs but as far as guns in general. No, we lose our 2nd amendment and its a slippery rope from there, then things will more progressively get taken away.

I also like to think of it in general like this, sure we can make guns illegal, but that will only hurt the responsible. What has making heroin and cocaine illegal done? Its done some good but those who still want it, get it. We make guns illegal, the criminals will still get their hands on it. Plain and simple.

Regards,

Casey

[Skybird]

I already said that gun laws alone will do little or nothing, but must be part of a more embracing and complete approach: tackling the whole social self-definition and the culture and the social realities.

I knew that the 2nd would be brought up. You can choose to stay a slave to that, and applaud the weapons lobby for protecting their profits by abusing it. Or you can choose to conclude that nothing needs to be written in storm for the rest of eternity. There is no more need for having militias in the state to be able to mobilze them quickly against the British. The Indian threat is non-existent. The modern US creates and produces the threats it is endangerd by all by itself: living conditions, eroding "Bürgertum", slums, poverty, social conditions, unemployment, wages, cultural climate in general. All this works together to form the result, from giving motivations to turn violent, to lowering inhibitations to use violence. And the criminal freaks from outside who have also an interest to keep the situation in th streets the same, also play in here.

When the second amendment would say that every citizen has the right that on Fridays he may drive his car over pedestrians crossing the street from left to right, would you then still say what you just have said? Or a rule that allows to shoot at black people wearing white shirts, but only with a muzzle loader, because muzzle loaders were what they had when this rule was written?

The 2nd amendment, regarding weapons and the weapon lobby it has become so much abused that nowadays it is just a pitiful, rotten excuse - to protect the industry's profits.

You want things to stay like they are. Okay. But do not complain about the price then. And save the crocodile tears then at the next incident. They are a lie. Not meaning you in special here, Casey, but speaking in general.

What remains by the end of the day is that nothing will be changed, crocodile tears by people not being attached to the effected families at all will be wept, and after the bodies have pout down under, one just sits and waits for the next incident to take place. How to produce new tears then has become a well-practiced routine. I find the whole media echo and everybody going into automatic "I'm so sorry"-mode absolutely despicable.

P.S. By chance I currently read an academic paper about Ernst Jünger and his description of the conflict between the burgeoise and the worker, and how the burgeoise destroys himself by showing an inability to adapt and an inability to realise the alien quality in what is alien, and the foreign quality in what is foreign, instead trying to assimilate it and tolerate it and by that nullifying his own identity, Jpnger thus says that every form of burgoisie thus is female by inner quality . A difficult but good reading, Manfred Maengel: "Das Wissen des Kriegers", which is a dissertation. Very, very actual that is, matching the modern present perfectly. Unfortunately a bit too long to translate the passage I have on mind here: 20 book pages. A shame that bot-translators still are the mess that they are, else I would scan the text via OCR and have it translated and then set it up.

[Tribesman]

The 2nd amendmant.....No, we lose our 2nd amendment ....
Explain what you think the second means then try and find a single period from your history where that meaning holds true.
As if you have never ever actually had the 2nd you think you have then there is no way it can be lost is there.

[AVGWarhawk]

Good. If we can have cops guard roadside construction sites and fat cat politician motorcades then we can darn well have one guard the entrance to the building that contains our future. I have no children of my own but i'd be willing to see my property taxes rise to pay for him to be there.

Had there been one in Sandy Hook he could have made the difference.

Good point on the construction site presence. I did not think of that. I do think his precence deters potential problems. I do feel better he is there. I can say my 14 year old has expressed concern for her safety. Not just at school but in public in general. This issue is very real for some kids.

[Jimbuna]

One of the victims appears to be a British boy, his older brother survived the attack:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20745431

[Platapus]

As soon as the police can guarantee that they can prevent a violent crime from affecting me, my family, my home, then I will gladly give up my guns.

However, in the US, the police are not there to prevent crimes but there to respond to crimes already committed. They are a post facto investigative and apprehension force, not a crime prevention force.

Personal/family protection is, and in my opinion, should always be a personal responsibility.

I have been a gun owner for over 20 years. Here is my record

People killed with my gun - 0
People injured with my gun - 0
My legal problems with my gun - 0
Times I have brandished my gun - 0
Times I have threatened people with my gun - 0
Accidents I have had with my gun - 1 (I did have an accidental discharge (Clearing a jam at the range), but my training of always keeping my gun in a safe direction prevented any damage)
Complaints from neighbours about my gun - 0

So explain to me how taking guns away from ME somehow makes the world safer?

As a responsible gun owner, all I ask is that my ability to responsibly own a gun not be infringed because of the actions, no matter how heinous they are, of a few individuals.

I don't think I am being unreasonable.

[Takeda Shingen]

As soon as the police can guarantee that they can prevent a violent crime from affecting me, my family, my home, then I will gladly give up my guns.

However, in the US, the police are not there to prevent crimes but there to respond to crimes already committed. They are a post facto investigative and apprehension force, not a crime prevention force.

Personal/family protection is, and in my opinion, should always be a personal responsibility.

I have been a gun owner for over 20 years. Here is my record

People killed with my gun - 0
People injured with my gun - 0
My legal problems with my gun - 0
Times I have brandished my gun - 0
Times I have threatened people with my gun - 0
Accidents I have had with my gun - 1 (I did have an accidental discharge (Clearing a jam at the range), but my training of always keeping my gun in a safe direction prevented any damage)
Complaints from neighbours about my gun - 0

So explain to me how taking guns away from ME somehow makes the world safer?

As a responsible gun owner, all I ask is that my ability to responsibly own a gun not be infringed because of the actions, no matter how heinous they are, of a few individuals.

I don't think I am being unreasonable.

The woman who was murdered by her son could have said the same thing up until yesterday. Then he took her legally-purchased and registered weapons, killed her and proceeded to kill scores of others at an elementary school.

[Platapus]

The woman who was murdered by her son could have said the same thing up until yesterday. Then he took her legally-purchased and registered weapons, killed her and proceeded to kill scores of others at an elementary school.

My point being that the problem is this individual, not the venue this individual chose to use.

We need to ban criminals, not guns. :)

[MH]

Just get as much guns as you can off the streets and make it difficult as possible to acquire permit.
Just from the statistic point of view such incidents will happen less often.
IF i recall most of the rage shootings had been done with legal guns owned by the shooters or family members , the gun enthusiasts who own guns/assault rifles for the heck of it.
I never digged into this but that is how i remember some of those incidents that reached the news here.
Or have the freedom to defend your self and/or shoot each other.

[Takeda Shingen]

My point being that the problem is this individual, not the venue this individual chose to use.

We need to ban criminals, not guns. :)

But that is the crux of the problem. You can be as safe and responsible as you want, but once someone else gets their hands on your firearm it all means nothing. And it happens all the time.

Good luck banning criminals.

[u crank]

The woman who was murdered by her son could have said the same thing up until yesterday. Then he took her legally-purchased and registered weapons, killed her and proceeded to kill scores of others at an elementary school.

I don't think you could call her a responsible gun owner.

1. The weapons were not secured. He got to them.

2. From what we are learning Adam Lanza, her son, had a history of personal and mental problems. She must have know this so to have weapons in her house accessible to him was very irresponsible.

I know there are a lot of other variables but there are two that could have been changed.

[Takeda Shingen]

I don't think you could call her a responsible gun owner.

1. The weapons were not secured. He got to them.

And just how do you know that? I'm willing to wager that those weapons were secured, and he knew how to get to them.

2. From what we are learning Adam Lanza, her son, had a history of personal and mental problems. She must have know this so to have weapons in her house accessible to him was very irresponsible.

I know there are a lot of other variables but there are two that could have been changed.

Are you advocating banning weapons for parents that have children with mental health issues?

[Armistead]

Just get as much guns as you can off the streets and make it difficult as possible to acquire permit.
Just from the statistic point of view such incidents will happen less often.
IF i recall most of the rage shootings had been done with legal guns owned by the shooters or family members , the gun enthusiasts who own guns/assault rifles for the heck of it.
I never digged into this but that is how i remember some of those incidents that reached the news here.
Or have the freedom to defend your self and/or shoot each other.


In cities that they've done the above, get guns off the street, strong gun laws, hasn't done a thing but insure only criminals are armed.

[u crank]

And just how do you know that? I'm willing to wager that those weapons were secured, and he knew how to get to them.


He got them and he used them. They were not secured.

Are you advocating banning weapons for parents that have children with mental health issues?

No. I'm saying that she did not act responsibly in regards to those guns and her knowledge of her son.

[Takeda Shingen]

He got them and he used them. They were not secured.

Which is my point. Your secure weapons are never secure, especially when the goal is to train your family to use them.

No. I'm saying that she did not act responsibly in regards to those guns and her knowledge of her son.

But up until yesterday, she likely would have claimed that her son would never be capable of such an act. Ah, the power of hindsight.

[u crank]

Which is my point. Your secure weapons are never secure, especially when the goal is to train your family to use them.

But up until yesterday, she likely would have claimed that her son would never be capable of such an act. Ah, the power of hindsight.

I guess I'm saying the two go together. True hindsight is a wonderful thing, but as this story unravels I'm afraid Nancy Lanza will take some blame. The only positive thing here is that maybe there are others who are in a similar situation and they will take steps to prevent a similar tragedy.

People, good people do take action.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1976318&postcount=110

[August]

Just get as much guns as you can off the streets and make it difficult as possible to acquire permit. Just from the statistic point of view such incidents will happen less often.

Except that from the statistical point of view the opposite is true. We've never had tougher gun control laws than we do now yet these incidents seem to be occurring with greater and greater frequency. If your theory were right they should be decreasing.

[CCIP]

Except that from the statistical point of view the opposite is true. We've never had tougher gun control laws than we do now yet these incidents seem to be occurring with greater and greater frequency. If your theory were right they should be decreasing.

On the other hand, most first-world countries have far more restrictive gun controls in the US than there are now, and yet their incidence of violent crime is orders lower and statistically decreasing.

Though as I said in discussions on this topic before, what I think that actually points to is that the problem isn't anything to do with guns at all. It's a much wider cultural issue and reducing it to a gun control debate of "guns or no guns" is not the right approach.

Also, I find reducing this topic to "guns or no guns" extremely sad considering what actually transpired. It just shows that though the shootings keep happening, nobody learns anything. Instead, it just turns into a politicized back-and-forth, left-vs-right debate that does nothing to address the underlying cultural problems behind this. And people are willing to drop their sensitivity to this sort of thing in favour of easy political labels.

[MH]

Except that from the statistical point of view the opposite is true. We've never had tougher gun control laws than we do now yet these incidents seem to be occurring with greater and greater frequency. If your theory were right they should be decreasing.
Maybe. I'm misinformed but I heard that in last twenty years or so the laws had been relaxed in many states...not that they had been ever hard on people by my understanding....
I guess its all relative....

[Tribesman]

Maybe. I'm misinformed but I heard that in last twenty years or so the laws had been relaxed in many states...not that they had been ever hard on people by my understanding....
its just another conservative dream about a non existant past which is used to try and avoid reality. Just on the concealed carry issue the number of no restictions states has quadrupled the shall issue states have nearly quadrupled and the no issue states are now pretty much non existant. From everything covering such a wide range as parks cities pistols assault rifles the laws have been relaxed not tightened, also with the rash ofexceptionally crazy castle laws the restrictrions on just shooting people have been relaxerd as well.
But the message is still "laws are now tougher than they have ever been" so swallow the spin from august MH:03:

In cities that they've done the above, get guns off the street, strong gun laws, hasn't done a thing but insure only criminals are armed.
Name a single city that has ensured that only criminals are armed with its laws?
You should be able to come up with an example of a city as you did use the plural so there must be more than one city you can choose from.

Unless of course there isn't a single city in the states that has ever done so:yep:

[eddie]

Several years ago, there was a school shooting in California, the shooter used an assault rifle. After, California banned assault rifles, but the killings didn't slow down, because they just used other guns. Now, the assault rifle ban out there, is so watered down, it doesn't look like they banned them in the first place.

[August]

On the other hand, most first-world countries have far more restrictive gun controls in the US than there are now, and yet their incidence of violent crime is orders lower and statistically decreasing.

Says you but the International Crime Victims Survey says otherwise:
http://rechten.uvt.nl/icvs/images/Graph03.JPG

[Tribesman]

Says you but the International Crime Victims Survey says otherwise:

No it doesn't.

1.yet their incidence of violent crime is orders lower and statistically decreasing.
2.overall victimisation for 10 crimes.
So violent crime is put up and you decide that to counter the point you shall include "theft of a bicycle" as one of 10 crimes.

But maybe it was a violent theft of a bicycle:rotfl2:

[Cybermat47]

America should have stronger gun laws right now. All you need for self-defence is a handgun, and yet this person was using a civilian assault rifle.

[August]

America should have stronger gun laws right now. All you need for self-defence is a handgun, and yet this person was using a civilian assault rifle.

Would you feel better if he had committed his crimes with a shotgun?

[Cybermat47]

Would you feel better if he had committed his crimes with a shotgun?

Absolutely not. The only thing you need for self defence is a handgun. Of course, this is only my opinion, and it's your country, so you probably know more about it than I do.

[Jimbuna]

Absolutely not. The only thing you need for self defence is a handgun. Of course, this is only my opinion, and it's your country, so you probably know more about it than I do.

Precisely.

[Armistead]

America should have stronger gun laws right now. All you need for self-defence is a handgun, and yet this person was using a civilian assault rifle.

What about hunting? You do realize that the majority of game in the USA is controlled by hunters, if it weren't so, numerous animal populations would overpopulate. Not to mention millions of Americans hunt for food. For instance, even with hunting the deer population in NC can get so high, hunters are given extra tags. Once it got so high the concern was starvation and disease would wipe the entire population. The 223 is really nothing more than a hunting rifle with a bigger clip.

A person could easily walked in there with two cut off auto shotguns and done as much damage, so I assume we should get rid of those? Millions of people prefer shotguns for protection, because you'll probably hit something while shaking.

The big issue seems to be clip size, say from 30 down to 10. I don't have a problem with that, I can switch out a clip in about 3-5 seconds.

What you don't see in the news is the millions of Americans that protect themselves yearly from criminals and stop further crimes because they're armed.

[Cybermat47]

What you don't see in the news is the millions of Americans that protect themselves yearly from criminals and stop further crimes because they're armed.

Bloody media :nope:

[Sailor Steve]

America should have stronger gun laws right now.
On the other hand many people who want stronger gun laws want to ban handguns and leave rifles alone.

Some will argue that the only gun law that will work would be the absolute banning of all guns, period. That might be difficult in a country in which close to 40% of all households contain at least one gun.

All you need for self-defence is a handgun, and yet this person was using a civilian assault rifle.
So? Who says all you need is a handgun? Who says you need a gun at all? I could argue that all you need for self-defense is a good knife. Others have argued that all you need is a good police force.

On the other hand many such crimes have been committed with handguns. I had a friend who owned several of each, and he never shot anybody. I own a rifle, and I haven't shot anybody.

[Jimbuna]

What about hunting? You do realize that the majority of game in the USA is controlled by hunters, if it weren't so, numerous animal populations would overpopulate. Not to mention millions of Americans hunt for food. For instance, even with hunting the deer population in NC can get so high, hunters are given extra tags. Once it got so high the concern was starvation and disease would wipe the entire population. The 223 is really nothing more than a hunting rifle with a bigger clip.

A person could easily walked in there with two cut off auto shotguns and done as much damage, so I assume we should get rid of those? Millions of people prefer shotguns for protection, because you'll probably hit something while shaking.

The big issue seems to be clip size, say from 30 down to 10. I don't have a problem with that, I can switch out a clip in about 3-5 seconds.

What you don't see in the news is the millions of Americans that protect themselves yearly from criminals and stop further crimes because they're armed.

On the other hand many people who want stronger gun laws want to ban handguns and leave rifles alone.

Some will argue that the only gun law that will work would be the absolute banning of all guns, period. That might be difficult in a country in which close to 40% of all households contain at least one gun.


So? Who says all you need is a handgun? Who says you need a gun at all? I could argue that all you need for self-defense is a good knife. Others have argued that all you need is a good police force.

On the other hand many such crimes have been committed with handguns. I had a friend who owned several of each, and he never shot anybody. I own a rifle, and I haven't shot anybody.

Valid points...the debate as always goes on :yep:

[yubba]

I guess no one wants to talk about all the shootings in Chicago it sounded like they had 15 different shootings yesterday alone so how are these less important or is there a bigger problem...????? I'll tell you right now if this government can't come to grips, for what it is doing to our economy you are going to see more of this...

http://justmytruth.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/experts-agree-on-gun-control.jpg

[Tribesman]

What you don't see in the news is the millions of Americans that protect themselves yearly from criminals and stop further crimes because they're armed.
Prove it, the NRA runs out that line of bull frequently, but the numbers it uses are from laughable excuses for surveys.
They include things like two drunks disputing which one owns a stolen video game and one ends up shootintg the other so thats using a gun to stop the "crime" of his friend stealing the stolen property, then there ids the man with a gun who heard a noise so defended his property from criminals by grabbing his gun...but it turned out it was only some coons in the yard.:yep: Hey they even tried to use examples like crazy old coots who shoot kids for walking on the grass as its stopping the crime of "destruction of their property":doh:

[Tribesman]

Yubba delivers:up:
Hey yubs, that first right wing nut on the poster went out straight away repealing all the restrictive legislation on firearms the state already had imposed
Oh sorry is reality and facts too hard for ya:rotfl2:

[Sailor Steve]

Prove it, the NRA runs out that line of bull frequently, but the numbers it uses are from laughable excuses for surveys.
I'm personally aquainted with three separate individuals who say they have done just that, using a gun to thwart a home invasion. As far as I know only one of the three reported the incident. There are also plenty of accounts in newspapers over the years.

Ignore the propaganda pieces and just read the actual acounts here:
http://www.akdart.com/gun3.html

You could find plenty more if you really wanted to.

Oh, and I agree with your other post: Yubba the Yutz strikes again!

[Armistead]

Seriously, if you hear a criminal coming into your house at night, would you rather try to talk to him unarmed or shoot the bastard before he gets to your kids.

What's sad it the numerous 1000's of 911 calls each year of a person calling reporting a burglar, crazed spouse, etc...breaking in, but they have no way to protect themselves....often they're found dead, raped or beaten by the time the police get there.

[eddie]

Then there are those home owners who believe they can be Judge and executioner at the same time. Just because you have a gun to protect yourself or your property doesn't mean you can go as far as this guy did up our way.
http://now.msn.com/anonymous-hacks-westboro-baptist-church

"According to the complaint, Smith told police that he heard someone breaking into his house at noon on Thanksgiving. He showed police the window he says Brady and his cousin, Kifer, used to enter his house, which he said had been broken into several times before. Lange, his friend, said he kept his valuables downstairs.
Smith told police he armed himself with a rifle and a handgun and waited downstairs until he saw the first person's feet, then legs, then hips.
He said he fired and the first victim, Brady, tumbled down the stairs. While Brady looked up at him, he shot him in the face, according to the complaint.
"I want him dead," he told investigators.
He put Brady's body on a tarp and dragged him into his basement workshop and sat back down in his chair.


Several minutes later, he heard more footsteps and saw Kifer coming down the stairs. He waited until he saw her hips, then fired. She also fell down the stairs, but then his rifle jammed and Kifer laughed.
That angered Smith. "If you're trying to shoot someone and they laugh at you, you go again," he told police.
He then pulled out the .22-caliber, nine-shot revolver that he was wearing, and fired "more shots than I needed to." He dragged Kifer into the workshop, placed her next to Brady and noticed she was still gasping for air.
"Smith stated at this point he placed the handgun under the woman's chin and shot her ... up into the cranium ... a good clean finishing shot."
He told police neither of the teens were armed but he feared they might have had a weapon.
He asked a neighbor the next morning if he knew any lawyers, and that neighbor apparently called police"

Of all the so called breakins that happened at his house, he only called the police once. Asked why he didn't call police after shooting these 2 on Thanksgiving, he said he didn't want to bother them on a holiday!

[Armistead]

Those few cases aren't what we're talking about..this guy was a nut.

The law states people have the right to be secure in body and property.
If someone breaks in your home and you feel threatened, you have the right to protect yourself.

I damn near killed my brother when we were room mates in our mid 20's. He was supposed to be out of town working for two weeks. One night I woke up to someone coming through the window. He had been partying, brought home by friends with no keys and instead of knocking, came through the window. When his head came through I put a 45 to his head and said some tough words....Lucky I didn't shoot, rather scared myself.
He didn't even remember it the next day.

[Fish]

Guns don't kill. Americans do. :down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[Nippelspanner]

Dear NRA,
if this is all that comes to your mind regarding this, i hope the spokesman of yours who proposed this 'solution' gets a big gun rammed up his ass, indeed i feel the strong urge to come over and do this myself !
And i will gladly go to the brig for having said this. :nope:

The last thing we need is some aggressive rhetoric from some foreign clown. You worry about your own country and we'll worry about ours.


The last thing we need are narrow minded people who dare to argue like you just did.
While I mostly disagree with what you say/write in general, I am truly shocked this time.

You have just crossed a line.


On a personal note: Catfish´s reaction is absolutely understandable, I had to read this NRA crap twice to believe it and felt it is a big insult to anyone involved with what just happened in Newtown.
If you disagree, fine, but do not insult him as a "foreign clown" and give him an advise you do not follow yourself the slightest!

[August]

Guns don't kill. Americans do. :down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

You Dutch weren't complaining when us evil gun owning Americans rescued you from the Germans.

[August]

A very interesting article on mental illness:
'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America

Posted: 12/16/2012 9:15 am EST | Updated: 12/16/2012 2:34 pm EST





Written by Liza Long, republished from The Blue Review
Friday’s horrific national tragedy -- the murder of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut -- has ignited a new discussion on violence in America. In kitchens and coffee shops across the country, we tearfully debate the many faces of violence in America: gun culture, media violence, lack of mental health services, overt and covert wars abroad, religion, politics and the way we raise our children. Liza Long, a writer based in Boise, says it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.
While every family's story of mental illness is different, and we may never know the whole of the Lanza's story, tales like this one need to be heard -- and families who live them deserve our help.
Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”
“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”
“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

[Nippelspanner]

You Dutch weren't complaining when us evil gun owning Americans rescued you from the Germans.

Yeah, totally the same thing, wow. :nope:

[August]

Yeah, totally the same thing, wow. :nope:


Really? did I say anything about going over to Holland and shoving a gun up someones butt? It's kind of dumb to be comparing a threat of violence with a simple statement of fact.

[Nippelspanner]

Yeah, go ahead and tell people what is dumb and what is not.
Just like telling them to keep out of another countries business (in an international forum) and get yourself involved into stuff that, by your own advise, should not be your concern.

Oh and don´t forget to insult them! Very important!

I refer to all your general postings, not a single one btw.

[Dowly]

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x462/Dowly/1107391025.gif

[Sailor Steve]

Mine's better!

And I would think you, of all people, would be using this one instead.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/167278.gif

[nikimcbee]

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x462/Dowly/1107391025.gif
Mind if I join you Dowly?

[nikimcbee]

Mine's better!

And I would think you, of all people, would be using this one instead.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/167278.gif

Dowly, get off the couch, I'm watching with her. Maybe I'm just watching her.:hmm2:

[nikimcbee]

A very interesting article on mental illness:

Do you have a link for the whole artice? I guess I'm going to wait for the dust to settle. If the boy was autistic/aspergers and violent, that is a dangerous combination.

More on aspergers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome


A lack of demonstrated empathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy) has a significant impact on aspects of communal living for persons with Asperger syndrome.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-Baskin-2) Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocity_(social_psychology)) (social "games" give-and-take mechanic), and impaired nonverbal behaviors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_communication) in areas such as eye contact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_contact), facial expression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_expression), posture, and gesture.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-McPartland-1)



Management

Further information: Autism therapies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_therapies)
Asperger syndrome treatment attempts to manage distressing symptoms and to teach age-appropriate social, communication and vocational skills that are not naturally acquired during development,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-McPartland-1) with intervention tailored to the needs of the individual based on multidisciplinary assessment.[81] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-81) Although progress has been made, data supporting the efficacy of particular interventions are limited.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-McPartland-1)[82] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-82)


There's no good that's going to come from this, but hopefully there will be a greater interest in treating/helping people with mental illness/ mentally impaired. I've been around two kids (boys:dead:) with Aspergers and they have violent tendencies. They are really hard to manage when they get "set off."

[Cybermat47]

I've been around two kids with Aspergers and they have violent tendencies. They are really hard to manage when they get "set off."

If you want them to stop being violent, get a female Maori teacher for them. It worked for me, so it'll work for them :up:

[Tribesman]

I'm personally aquainted with three separate individuals who say they have done just that
Yes Steve, and I have done it myself though it was a neighbours property not mine.
But that doesn't cover the "millions of americans every year" line which is what was the issue as that is just pure nonsense taken straight from the propoganda spiel by that gun nut that was featured last week who invents "facts" and figures which the NRA just parrot.

[Oberon]

Dowly, get off the couch, I'm watching with her. Maybe I'm just watching her.:hmm2:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnqlbbSvtZ1qfy290o1_500.jpg

[nikimcbee]

If you want them to stop being violent, get a female Maori teacher for them. It worked for me, so it'll work for them :up:

You mean a nun.:haha: Could make the problem worse.

[Cybermat47]

You mean a nun.:haha: Could make the problem worse.

Nah, I'm talking about a hard-as-nails Maori woman :D

[August]

Do you have a link for the whole artice?

Sorry Nik I meant to include the link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html

[August]

Yeah, go ahead and tell people what is dumb and what is not.
Just like telling them to keep out of another countries business (in an international forum) and get yourself involved into stuff that, by your own advise, should not be your concern.

Oh and don´t forget to insult them! Very important!

I refer to all your general postings, not a single one btw.

Well isn't that special. :roll:

[nikimcbee]

Nah, I'm talking about a hard-as-nails Maori woman :D

Boo!
http://www.textually.org/textually/archives/2011/04/10/A%20Maori%20woman%20performs.jpeg

[August]

The Nuns I knew growing up were way tougher than that. :)

[Armistead]

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t511/snowdust2/f4e31c9f.gif

[nikimcbee]

Sorry Nik I meant to include the link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html

Intereting article.:salute:


At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.


Pretty much says it all. They're good kids most of the time, but whatever sets them off, look out:dead:.

[Cybermat47]

Pretty much says it all. They're good kids most of the time, but whatever sets them off, look out:dead:.

"Quick! Call the Maori women! Cybermat47's on the loose!"

"So?"

"He has Aspergers!"

"AAAAAAAAAAHHH!!"

[TarJak]

Some interesting articles on the gun control question:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/will-the-sandy-hook-massacre-be-americas-tipping-point-20121216-2bhfy.html
Note the fact there has been 16 mass shootings in USA in 2012 alone. In Australia there have been none since the introduction of tight gun controls in 1996.

Some interesting facts on gun control by an American commentator: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/talking-gun-violence-facts-for-a-debate-america-has-to-have-20121216-2bhgl.html

So will Obama take the step he hinted at in his speech? http://www.smh.com.au/world/obama-now-is-the-time-for-change-20121217-2biq3.html

Looks like his party will be raising it: http://www.smh.com.au/world/first-moves-on-tough-road-to-gun-control-20121217-2biem.html

[Tribesman]

Interesting articles Tarjak.
This bit caught my eye....
Meanwhile, the gun lobby is also circulating a petition. It calls for a gun in every classroom, with every teacher to be armed
....which made me think if those are not the same sort of people who rant about teachers being useless lazy union owned time markers sucking on the government teat whose only role is to brainwash decent American kids into being socialists and atheists.

[TarJak]

Why stop with arming the teachers? Why not arm the kids too?:down::nope:

[Tribesman]

Why stop with arming the teachers? Why not arm the kids too?:down::nope:
Don't start them:rotfl2:
But then next it will be pointing out the complaints about all the innocent people hit when the cops in NY were shooting that gunman.

[Skybird]

A German newspaper just asked in a headline an interesting question. They reminded that Swiss men have their service Assault rifles at home, a legal obligation in Switzerland due to their military structure. They reminded of the Czech Republic having a very mild gun law. And that in Israel people go shopping and sit in cafes - armed. But why, so they ask, are school shootings happen so very damn often in the US, not in Switzerland, not in Israel, not in the Czech Republic?

As I indicated earlier, the problem is not so much one of crime, but one of culture, national tradition, personal attitudes - and the public climate influenced by media and education. Obviously somethings ticks different, very different, in the American mind than in the Israeli, Czech or Swiss mind.

And the reasons why this is so are what it is about, and what is key in preventing future incidents. This cannot be gained just overnight. Just chnagign the gun laws a,lone will do little, if anything - tighter gun laws must be part of a much greater package that tries nothing less than changing tradition and culture and living style and media and education.

Go figure.

The countdown for the next incidents - plural - is already ticking. Fill your tear reservoirs while you still have time - you'll need them.

P.S. For completeness, in Switzerland a higher percen tage of the male population commits suicide by using their ARs than in any other Western country, that's why they want to ban the storage of service rifles at home. At least a part of Swiss population wants that, whether they will get a majority, I have mydoubts. - A proposal I consider to be idiotic if based on this reason alone.

P.P.S. Not school shootings, but general violence is on the rise it seems in all Western countries, and in Germany for sure as well. That there are less shooting incidents still may have something to do with the lesser availability of firearms over here. However, the modern high readiness to tick out and pass beyond natural inhibitions to turn violent, brutal or lethal, may indicate that a trend leading Europe to an "Americanised" inner attiude of people is on the march, too. Brutality is present at many schools over here too. Just the difficult access to weapons maybe prevents to have more school shooting over here, too. This hypothesis should be examined, too.

[troopie]

Honestly, I know it's your country and all, and as such, not really my concern. But, I've gotta say: speaking from experiance, gun controll in Australia is a good thing! I like the fact that most of the population isn't running around with deadly weapons. We can get a bit crazy down here at times (it is the silly season in the tropics at the mo :haha:) but generally a good fist fight will sort it out.

Personally, I'm a legit gun owner. I've got a .22LR BRNO Model 2 which is great for feral cats and wallabies (for meat) and it'll scare the pant's of any one that crosses me, yet I'm hardly gunna go on a massacre with it am I? The gun laws give us a few hoops to jump through, but really, it's well worth it as it really seems to of have had a big positive impact.

Yes, <insert prefered stereotypes here> still acquire weapons as needed, but really, the actual volume of weapons on the streets remains low and are treated discretely, as those with illegal weapons don't wont to bring attention to them selves. The averge joe just has to think a bit more about who he's crossing. Generaly, this ends up in a sort of self-regulating cycle. Personnally, I'm quite happy with how it's all worked out.

Having said that, I also understand that the cultural impact of such legislation in your country would be almost insurmountable, but all I'm saying is, I guess, consider it. It worked for us.

[Oberon]

I like the fact that most of the population isn't running around with deadly weapons.

It's Australia, anything that moves is a deadly weapon! :dead:

[troopie]

It's Australia, anything that moves is a deadly weapon! :dead:

This time of year it don't even gotta move! :haha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melioidosis


Without access to appropriate antibiotics (principally ceftazidime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceftazidime) or meropenem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meropenem)), the septicemic form of melioidosis has a mortality rate that exceeds 90%.[94] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melioidosis#cite_note-94)[95] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melioidosis#cite_note-95) With appropriate antibiotics, the mortality rate is about 10% for uncomplicated cases but up to 80% for cases with bacteraemia or severe sepsis. It seems certain that access to intensive care facilities is also important, and probably at least partially explains why total mortality is 20% in Northern Australia but 40% in Northeast Thailand. Response to appropriate antibiotic treatment is slow with the average duration of fever following treatment being 5–9 days.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melioidosis#cite_note-White2003-10)[96] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melioidosis#cite_note-96)


Pardon my flippancy :oops:, we're a little off-topic.

[Krauter]

A very interesting article on mental illness:

Hmm.. trying to find an AMA on reddit about a guy who gave up his life to take care of his mentally disabled brother. He talks about how he managed it fine up until his brother turned 20 and started getting violent. Powerful stuff.

I'll post it if I can find it.

[Krauter]

It's Australia, anything that moves is a deadly weapon! :dead:

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Kill+it+with+FIRE_1c209c_4167313.jpg

[Armistead]

Our gun laws simply won't stop these mass school shootings. Years ago the big debate regarding the 3 day wait was due more to rage shooting, someone getting mad, felt they needed to shoot their spouse, etc. This kid that did this tried to buy a gun at Dick's Sporting and was denied. I think the fact he was denied may show his mother's guns were secure from him and he forced her to give them.

Cetainly we need to look at gun laws, gun dealers, we can probably do some things that will stop some street crime, spouse shooting, gun accidents, etc., but nothing we do will stop people like Adam.

[eddie]

One smart and lucky little girl! Played dead while all her friends were being killed.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/17/15971544-lone-survivor-in-connecticut-classroom-mommy-im-ok-but-all-of-my-friends-are-dead?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=3

[Fish]

[QUOTE=August;1976748]Says you but the International Crime Victims Survey says otherwise:

I think thats a non sequitur.

http://rechten.uvt.nl/icvs/pdffiles/ICVS2004_05.pdf

[Fish]

You Dutch weren't complaining when us evil gun owning Americans rescued you from the Germans.
And a other non sequitur.

Did I hurt your feelings August?

[Cybermat47]

One smart and lucky little girl! Played dead while all her friends were being killed.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/17/15971544-lone-survivor-in-connecticut-classroom-mommy-im-ok-but-all-of-my-friends-are-dead?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=3

I feel sorry for her. Now those images will be in her head all her life... but still, thank God she survived.

[August]

And a other non sequitur.

Did I hurt your feelings August?

Of course not. Did I hurt yours?

[Fish]

Of course not. Did I hurt yours?

No.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm kind of having mixed feelings about it. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

One smart and lucky little girl! Played dead while all her friends were being killed.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/17/15971544-lone-survivor-in-connecticut-classroom-mommy-im-ok-but-all-of-my-friends-are-dead?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=3

God Bless her....probably traumatised for life :-?

[eddie]

You 're right JIm, she's going to need a lot of love and caring for a long time, sure hope she'll get through ok!

[Jimbuna]

You 're right JIm, she's going to need a lot of love and caring for a long time, sure hope she'll get through ok!

Rgr that matey :yep:

[TarJak]

Our gun laws simply won't stop these mass school shootings. Years ago the big debate regarding the 3 day wait was due more to rage shooting, someone getting mad, felt they needed to shoot their spouse, etc. This kid that did this tried to buy a gun at Dick's Sporting and was denied. I think the fact he was denied may show his mother's guns were secure from him and he forced her to give them.

Cetainly we need to look at gun laws, gun dealers, we can probably do some things that will stop some street crime, spouse shooting, gun accidents, etc., but nothing we do will stop people like Adam.
I disagree that nothing you do will stop them. Reducing the capacity to kill numerous people in a short space of time may prevent killings on the scale that seems to have become routine in these matters. Removing automatic and semi-automatic weapons from the market reduces the ability for these types of incdients to occur. You may not stop people like these killing someone and likely themselves, but you are more likely to stop them killing 20 or 30 people at a time.

Since our gun laws changed in 1996 there have been no mass killings involving a firearm, prior to this we had 16 occur between 1989 and 1996. Also firearm related robberies reduced by 37%. Given these numbers you might think it is worth giving it a go.

I agree that guns don't kill people, people kill people, but people without guns kill fewer people. This is what gun controls buy you. They do not eradicate the problem entirely, but are an effective form of harm minimisation that reduces the number of future deaths by restricting the availability of the weapons that enable mass killings.

I think the reality is, that the economics of the equation is likely to be the biggest factor in the gun law debate. Put simply, there are too many guns out there for the USA to afford to be able to ban all semi-automatic weapons and carry out a gun amensty and buy back scheme as was done here in Australia. That was largely funded by a 1% levy on income tax to finance the compensation of gun owners whose weapons suddenly became illegal. Note these wepaons included all semi-automatic rifles including .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump action shotguns. This buyback netted 600,000 weapons and cost over AU$500m.

A second buy back of illegal pistols netted around 50,000 weapons and cost around AU$50m.

Some back of the coaster sums shows a similar buy back in the US would cost well in excess of US$2B based on an average cost of $1300 per weapon and that would only take about 1.5 million weapons out of the market which is small dent in the market. It would also be argued that this would target law abiding owners whilst leaving millions in the hands of those who flout the law.

There is also the question of what a control scheme like this does to the gun manufacturers and the jobs that the weapons industry provide for thousands of workers.

I'll be very surprised if the US actually does anything meaningful in terms of gun control this time around as time after time the economics gets in the way of the saving of lives.

[eddie]

The funerals started to day, I've never been to one where a child has been lost. Such small coffins, I couldn't imagine anything like that. May God watch over and comfort the parents at a time like this.

[Cybermat47]

The funerals started to day, I've never been to one where a child has been lost. Such small coffins, I couldn't imagine anything like that. May God watch over and comfort the parents at a time like this.

Please tell me that those WBC creeps weren't anywhere near. If they were, then may all the rage of the world fall upon them.

[eddie]

Haven't heard any reports about them being there yet, but more funerals are to be held over the next few days. Hopefully they have been scared off.

[Armistead]

I've yet to hear anything on the news about WBC. They certainly weren't at the funerals today.

[August]

I've yet to hear anything on the news about WBC. They certainly weren't at the funerals today.

I believe that just making the threat of showing up garnered them the attention they seek.

[Cybermat47]

Haven't heard any reports about them being there yet, but more funerals are to be held over the next few days. Hopefully they have been scared off.

Let's hope.

[geetrue]

I thought this was cool ... some of us are in need of a Golden Retriever :yep:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/golden-retrievers-sent-comfort-newtown-survivors-220213316.html

Golden retrievers sent to comfort Newtown survivors

NEWTOWN, Conn.—A Lutheran charity group has sent about 10 golden retrievers to comfort the survivors of Friday's mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. Lutheran Church Charities in Addison, Ill., sent the dogs on an 800-mile journey to respond to the disaster.

Lutheran Church Charities President Tim Hetzner told the Chicago Tribune that the dogs "are nonjudgmental. They are loving. They are accepting of anyone." (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AraqjS_SkKnQRzUGfHAup52ZCMZ_;_ylu=X3oDMTFka3B kYnE0BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ 0JvZHlBc3NlbWJseQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTMzZmdldGg5BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDYmM1MDU4NGEtNzc2YS0zZDA4LThkYzItY2E0ZmU4Ym IxNjA1BHBzdGNhdANibG9nc3x0aGVsb29rb3V0BHB0A3N0b3J5 cGFnZQ--;_ylv=0/SIG=1509hkfp5/EXP=1357001701/**http%3A//www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-local-comfort-dogs-taken-to-connecticut-after-school-massacre-20121216,0,7533873.story)

[Oberon]

I thought this was cool ... some of us are in need of a Golden Retriever :yep:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/golden-retrievers-sent-comfort-newtown-survivors-220213316.html

Golden retrievers sent to comfort Newtown survivors

What a fantastic idea. :yep: Sometimes just having a dog by your side can do more help than an hour with a professional psychatrist, and if there's any breed of dog that will sit and listen to you, and always be there for you, it's a Retriever and/or Laborador. :D

[RickC Sniper]

What a fantastic idea. :yep: Sometimes just having a dog by your side can do more help than an hour with a professional psychatrist, and if there's any breed of dog that will sit and listen to you, and always be there for you, it's a Retriever and/or Laborador. :D

Fantastic idea indeed! :up:

[Jimbuna]

I thought this was cool ... some of us are in need of a Golden Retriever :yep:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/golden-retrievers-sent-comfort-newtown-survivors-220213316.html

Golden retrievers sent to comfort Newtown survivors

That is an excellent idea/gesture :sunny:

[Takeda Shingen]

Happiness is indeed a warm puppy.

[Tchocky]

Happiness is indeed a warm puppy.


Well I never thought this thread would make me laugh, but well done :)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Let's hope.

Westboro Baptist Church posted on their website that they intend to be at the Woodbury Funeral Home in Woodbury Connecticut tomorrow to picket the funeral of Sandy Hook Elementary School Principal Dawn Hochsprung.

The pathetic, hatemongering, rodents at Westboro Baptist Church post their picket schedule here: http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

I hope that the Patriot Guard Riders will be there.

[Madox58]

I hope that the Patriot Guard Riders will be there.
Not from what they posted on thier site.
http://www.patriotguard.org/

I 'believe' there may be a few...... um....... shall we say?
Burly Motorcycle type persons there.
:D

[Jimbuna]

:rock::rock::rock:

[Platapus]

As much as I despise that "almost a church", and I pretty much disagree with 100% of what they say; I look on the Westrburro "church" as a critical test of "freedom of expression"

Freedom of expression is never better demonstrated then when it is invoked by someone you vehemently disagree with.

I wish the WBC would choose not to spread their filth around decent people. But I would also fight for their right to freely and legally express their beliefs, even though I find them abhorrent.

If we only grant freedom of expression to those we like or for messages we approve of, we really don't have freedom of expression.

Suppose the WBC was disrupting funerals by loudly expressing their support for the US military members, would we still have the same outrage at the disrupting of funerals?

[mookiemookie]

The pathetic, hatemongering, rodents at Westboro Baptist Church post their picket schedule here: http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

They do it because they want people there. They want counter protesters. The "church's" entire business model is predicated on bringing lawsuits against anyone who assaults them or infringes upon their rights. If you look at all of the leadership of the WBC, you'll find they're all lawyers.

The worst thing that we can do is give these yo-yo's more publicity.

[August]

I see your point Platapus but if one supports something they wouldn't want to deliberately disrupt it and that's key. It's not the wbc's message that people object to, they don't agree with it but that alone does not make them objectionable, it's how they choose to spread that message. They disrupt, they incite, they antagonize and they hurt people already laid low by tragedy, that is why the wbc is hated.

I see them as a reflection of societies real problem. We value fame so much that some of us are willing to take infamy as a suitable alternative. Neal said it well. Kids cannot be allowed to raise themselves. They have way too much free time and not enough exercise to burn off excess energy.

Another thing is an increasingly popular belief that life has no meaning. We're all just an accidental byproduct of some long ago cosmic event, no heaven, no hell just those that are remembered, and those that aren't.

We apply this philosophy to young people who spend that free time we've given them to wandering dark and dank video game halls with a variety of increasingly powerful weapons mowing down everything they meet. The movies they like are just as bloody and dark and in every one morality is relative. Heroes become Villains, Villains become Heroes and today's kids watch and play many hours of it a week. No matter how rare out of a population of 300 million people there's bound to be a few that it will affect.

It doesn't make them killers but it gives the killer within them ideas...

[Kpt. Lehmann]

They do it because they want people there. They want counter protesters. The "church's" entire business model is predicated on bringing lawsuits against anyone who assaults them or infringes upon their rights. If you look at all of the leadership of the WBC, you'll find they're all lawyers.

The worst thing that we can do is give these yo-yo's more publicity.

@Platapus... I hear you. The problem I have with the WBC monsters is that their 'rights' should end where the noses (and rights) of others begin.

In my opinion, the WBC monsters' plan to picket and spew at the Westbury CT funeral home is THE MOST DESPICABLE act they have perpetrated on society yet.

@mookiemonkey: (Good to see you, matey!) I'm aware that they are all lawyers... but that does not make them unbeatable. These evil monsters simply must be opposed in Connecticut. If I had the financial means... I'd offer to lead an effort to shield the families of the slain from those monsters, myself. Violence isn't required to make their noise irrelevant.

@ Privateer: I saw the PGR response to all the requests they've gotten relating to CT. Maybe in days to come, they could broaden their mission to allow for these kinds of situations. I know a few members of the PGR... and knowing them... I can say that down to a man... their hearts are in Connecticut.