PDA

View Full Version : The Granite Revolution, an overwiev of the Slovene uprising


Betonov
12-06-12, 02:05 PM
If you read the GT of GT, or commonly known as the Comment thread, you'd realise that my country is in interesting times. Unusual for a peacefull nation, so politicaly apathic that presidential elections receive less media time than gasoline price change.
But we were a rebelius mob. The peasant uprisings in the mediavel ages caused more damage to Germanic aristocracy rulling our lands than the Ottoman invasion. And when you try to mess with a nation, that managed to occupy German divisions in 1940's while still fighting with itself, a nation that is getting hungrier, you should build big walls.

http://tadejvetrih.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/punt4.jpg



THE PROLOGUE: Nothing here to talk about. Rich getting richer, poor getting poorer. Connection apointments, corruption, bribes, flashing around with ill-gotten wealth and escaping the justice system with petty fines at best.... I'm not going to write about it. The same as your county.

THE BONFIRE OF SPEED CAMERAS: As with all major occurances in history, this one is also caused by something so petty and unexpected, one wonders how all of this didn't start before.
It all started in Maribor. Our second largest city. Maribor is the capital of the region known as Stajerska and the inhabitants are known to be hotheaded. So no suprises there.
Maribors mayor, Franc Kangler, is the embodiement of the rulling political elite. Corruption, intimidation, abuse of status and other mobb tactics were known too wellfor him. When asked how he managed to aquire €150.000, he simply replied: I sold the hay I dried on my property. Mocking the people skill level: infinity.

http://www.mariborskiutrip.si/images/stories/Franc_Kangler.jpg
Franc Kangler

On this september, Kangler anounced he contracted a private firm to set up speed monitor radars and cameras around maribor. 30 of them. The thing that set of the flames was the fact, that fines from speeders were collected by the company and not the municipality. Within days the first radar was set on fire. And the next day another one and another. Within a week 9 of them were destroyed.

http://www.dnevnik.si/i/orig/2012/12/04/671127.jpg
The famous speed camera, most proabibly on the wasteyard at this moment

And here's a footage how you deal with one of them with a Clio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuP4dMhFkY&feature=player_embedded


GOTOF JE: roughly translated from the loacl dialect: he's done. Quickly became the motto of the uprising anywhere. November 2nd was the first uprising. Only ~50 people protested and little was done about it. It was only the kindle. Facebook provided the spark.
The second Maribor uprising occured november 26th and it was organised by FB groups. Between 400 and 600 people came to protest peacefully. A group of individuals came with the protesters came with the protesters intent to cause trouble. A riot occured and the police, not used to such large protests atacked some peacefull protesters. A blunder the nation forgave.
Mayor Kangler refused to abdicate. He chose to go on vacation to think it over.

http://www.totimaribor.si/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Gotof-je-plakat.jpg

THE STREET DIDN'T HAPPENED, THE NATION DID: the next day a support for Maribor protest manifested in Ljubljana, the nations capital. 10.000 people came. The protests were peacefull at first. People layed flowers in front of the riot police squads and the officers even accepted the flowers personaly. There was a general empathy with the police. They were seen as just another citizen just doing their job for an ever shrinking wage.

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121130/670x420_ljub7.jpg?rev=0
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121130/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121130173043-12053600.jpeg?rev=1The street dind't happend, the nation did

But as in Maribor one day before, rioters quickly came. Fighting broke out, the peacefull protesters dispersed to avoid the fighting and cobblestone were flying into the police lines. The granite revolution began.
After hours of fighting the country never before seen, the water canon being used for the first time in nations history, the city looked like a warzone. Everyone wondered if the riots we've seen in London this year might occur here.

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121130/670x420_maxi.jpg?rev=1


A NEW REALITY SHOW, SLOVENIA HAS GUTS: All cities followed. Small scale compared but our cities are towns compared to the US. Everywhere people went out and shouted anti-goverment slogans. Icelandic velvet revolution was set as an example. Apart from localized hooligans the protests were peacefull.
Something new was in the air. People decided not to watch a new reality show currently airing very evening and went to the streets. Just like our grandfathers in 1942, the cold of winter 2012 didn't stop us.

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121130/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121130211954-11646700.jpeg?rev=0


HOT AIR FROM TIMES LONG GONE: The goverments response was expected. Typical mumbo jumbo about internal enemies, a minor reminder of the communist upbringing of our current ''leaders''. Our PM Jansa made an expected speech about some individuals trying to set the country on fire for their own political gains. Just as he had years earlier while he was the leader of the opposition. The speech convinced only his flock.
The truth is, there is no one man, organization or movement with enough influence to bring so many people out in the streets. We just don't give a damn. We just want these commie partisan dinosaurs out. Even if there are certain individuals behind it, the mass effect will turn against them too.

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121203/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121203192522-48414900.jpg?rev=1
Jansa go home

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MARIBOR (Herr-Berbunch): December 3rd, the third Maribor uprising was a feat of organisation I'd never expect from this country. 15.000 people in a city of 95.000. A million of Londoners would have to protest to achieve the same ratio.
The protests started the same as always. People chanting GOTOF JE !!! and giving flowers to the police until the rioters arrive. But they were also better prepared. Homemade ''grenades'', incendiary devices and (trademark) cobblestone were flying against the police. Protesters actually worked with the police against the rioters, but they were too many. Maribor was a warzone. There was something in the air and it wasn't love. Smelled of tear gas (maybe it was love). The town hall was riddled and set on fire (put out quickly) and the surrounding streets received for more than €30.000 damage. The biggest riot since the peasant uprisings of the 15th century.

http://beta.finance-on.net/galerije/4436/mb_protestinet1_be.JPG
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121203/670x420_prot.jpg?rev=2
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121203/670x420_mb10.jpg?rev=1
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121204/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121204115323-14112600.jpeg?rev=3
The hooligans armory, an old town street

December third was also a protest day all around Slovenia. But apart from Maribor, it was peacefull. Even in Ljubljana.

Betonov
12-06-12, 02:09 PM
Why did I chose to write this today ??

Franc Kangler abdicated today !!!! ONE DOWN, MORE TO COME !!!! GOTOVI SO

http://markom.watoc.org/wp-content/uploads//2012/12/Gotovi-so-blog-Don-Marko-M.jpg

Jimbuna
12-06-12, 03:17 PM
Most interesting, keep it coming :cool:

Love the way the Clio sorted out the speed camera :)

Oberon
12-06-12, 03:26 PM
Is there anyone in mind that the protesters want to replace Kangler or even Jansa with?

Jimbuna
12-06-12, 03:57 PM
Is there anyone in mind that the protesters want to replace Kangler or even Jansa with?

Betonov :sunny:

:O:

Betonov
12-06-12, 03:59 PM
Is there anyone in mind that the protesters want to replace Kangler or even Jansa with?

It's not so much replacing someone, it's bringing in fresh faces and forcing the goverment to enforce laws on their own, reforming the justice system to prevent people from avoiding punishment by waiting the 5 year period when outstanding offences become outdated, forbiding MP status to people with interests in private firms, stop being an obidient dog to Brussels...

To quote one of the citizens: it's not a revolution, it's evolution


NEWS OF THE DAY: Koper and Kranj protested today.

Kranj was peacefull and it was more of a flash mob tha a protest

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121206/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121206183740-85021000.jpeg?rev=2
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121206/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121206165717-82412100.jpeg?rev=1
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121206/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121206165856-15441400.jpeg?rev=1


While Koper turned into a riot. Nothing compared to the third Maribor uprising, some property damage, town hall received some homemade firecrackers and a police car had the rear window shattered.

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121206/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121206191506-58784600.jpeg?rev=1
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121206/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121206191505-40698300.jpeg?rev=0
http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395116_10151359178747269_1734198516_n.jpg

Herr-Berbunch
12-06-12, 04:45 PM
Well written, interesting piece, and thanks for the recognition. :D

Betonov
12-06-12, 04:55 PM
Well written, interesting piece, and thanks for the recognition. :D

Credit where credit is due :yep:

Sailor Steve
12-06-12, 05:02 PM
Nice summary. It's interesing to learn about other people's ways and lives.

However, something seems to be wrong with your picture hosting. You put up a whole lot of shots, but the only one that shows up is this one:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Gotof-je-plakat.jpg

Betonov
12-06-12, 05:17 PM
Why do I have a feeling that Penguin is only going to see this picture :O:

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121130/670x420_ljub7.jpg?rev=0

u crank
12-06-12, 06:01 PM
Good job keeping us informed Betonov. :up: Keep it coming.

Stay safe.:yep:

Jimbuna
12-06-12, 06:13 PM
Intersting times ahead me thinks.

Betonov
12-07-12, 05:50 PM
COLD AND PEACE FOR THE POLICE: The third Ljubljana protest was peacefull. No incidents. Is the hot blood cooling or a calm before the storm :hmmm:

http://www.dnevnik.si/i/c1/2012/12/07/679517.jpg?width=630

Jimbuna
12-07-12, 05:52 PM
Hopefully the former :sunny:

Betonov
12-07-12, 05:55 PM
Yeah, I hope the hooligans are gone. But I'm afraid that the protests are also calming down. I'd hate to see the current political elite weathering this one out.

Respenus
12-07-12, 06:33 PM
We shall see Betonov, people at the top (I think the term elites is overused at times) have a way of surviving, even if the circumstances that brought them there are no longer present.

From my point of view (yes, there are actually two Slovenians in Slovenia right now :D), the problem is inter-connectedness of business and political leaders (often united in the same person) and the cross-cutting nature of interests, allowing for multiple alliances and supporting different causes, with the end result always being similar policies being enacted by more or less the same group of individuals. My family has been at the hitting end of the stick for decades, first from the left because my father was a free thinking and honest man (and will remain to the day he last draws his breath) and didn't accept their power play and corruption and gave in his Party book long before it became popular. Then he was hit from the right because of his past. So any business he wanted to set up was shot down, as his partners didn't want to take the risk. So you can say that I have as much interest as anyone to see the whole clique removed.

At the same time I must voice my disbelief for any major change. As I have said, too small a group controls too much power. In order for a paradigm change, these people must accept to sacrifice a bit of what they own for the "common good". Now the problem is both making them cooperate and actually achieve the set goals and the setting of goals themselves, as who can define the common good and what actions are required to bring Slovenia from the economic, political and social malaise. Taking a quick stroll through statistics, Slovenia as a country (more precisely its citizens) does not have the characteristics that would be conducive to such change, pervasive lack of trust being one of them.

It's late and I may add some other thoughts in the future, but my money is on no change in Slovenia. If the destructive protests can stop, that will be great and it will allow for the peaceful protesters to have their voice heard, but often the associations of said people have vested interest in the public purse, so they are looking more after their own assess then the well-being of the nation. I'll be damned if I know what to do...we need an honest man at the helm, willing to look beyond historical divisions and willing to give up his professional future to take one for the team. We need an honest to God leader. Good luck finding him/her.

Oh, and my position and knowledge forces me to conclude by saying that we are not an obedient dog to Brussels, we have brought on the current reforms ourselves. The Chancellor (Hello Skybird!), now that's another topic alltogether :03:

Betonov
12-08-12, 07:12 AM
I'd love to tell Respensus that the elite will fall due to sheer pressure from the people. But unfortunately I have to agree.

My biggest fear is that in a month protests will die down to 20 people chanting the international infornt of the parliament while business will go on as usual.

Penguin
12-10-12, 07:15 AM
Thanks Betonov, very informative post! Out media reported next to nothing about the events. Only a little coverage of the riots, but no infos about the causes other than mentioning corrucption.
I pray to the Slovenian gods that our silly politicians won't read your post, the mixture of political power and private company interests is something our regime loves. I hope they won't get inspired by Kangler, otherwise I might have to buy a tow line for my car :arrgh!:

Some questions:
1. Did the presidential election result somehow influence the uprisings ? (either fueled it or satisfied people)
2. Are demonstrators allowed to cover their faces in Slovenia? Here they forbid it in the 80s, and depending on the demonstration it sometimes get harshly enforced.
3. As you mentioned that water cannons have been used for the first time: are there any regulations about the circumstances when they are allowed to be used?

Why do I have a feeling that Penguin is only going to see this picture :O:

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121130/670x420_ljub7.jpg?rev=0

Pfft! I am not oine-dimensional like this! :timeout:




(The gal Steve pointed out also jumped into my eyes:yep:)


In the sign above, Jansa looks very similar to Louis de Funes, especially like in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hbMnzAs5U). You should use the linked video to make some memes. Just a little inspiration to support the Slovenian uprising - hot chicks in sexy partisan caps can't be wrong. :smug:

Betonov
12-10-12, 11:35 AM
Some questions:
1. Did the presidential election result somehow influence the uprisings ? (either fueled it or satisfied people)
2. Are demonstrators allowed to cover their faces in Slovenia? Here they forbid it in the 80s, and depending on the demonstration it sometimes get harshly enforced.
3. As you mentioned that water cannons have been used for the first time: are there any regulations about the circumstances when they are allowed to be used?



1) Quite opposite. The two days of the elections were the most peadefull. Protesters respected the voting silence and nothing occured during those two days.

2) I don't know. The police tend to single them out as covering the face means you want to stay anonymus when you riot. The peacefull protesters said themselves, to show their faces just so they can distance themselves from the hooligans

3) Also don't know. Proabibly at the judgement of the police commander at that time.

Herr-Berbunch
12-10-12, 11:51 AM
1)The two days of the elections were the most peadefull.

I hope you mean peaceful, and not full of :hmm2:

Betonov
12-10-12, 11:54 AM
UPS, yeah, PEACEFULL, like not much happening, like my love life

Jimbuna
12-10-12, 12:06 PM
UPS, yeah, PEACEFULL, like not much happening, like my love life

Five fingered widow is the safest option, just watch your eyesight doesn't start to deteriorate :O:

Betonov
12-10-12, 12:09 PM
Jim, I don't even want to know

Jimbuna
12-10-12, 12:10 PM
Coward :D

Betonov
12-10-12, 12:17 PM
Better to run away with the last gram of sane mind, than to really know what you meant with a five fingered widow :doh:

Jimbuna
12-10-12, 12:28 PM
Yeah I'll give you that one :03:

Betonov
12-21-12, 12:28 PM
OK, unlike the end of the world, the protests planned for the 21st really occured. Maribor and Ljubljana have over 1500 protesters (now it says over 6000, the article was updated while I was typing), so do the other cities around the country. So far no riots, but baloons filled with red paint have been thrown into the police.

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121221/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121221171001-50520400.jpeg?rev=1
http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121221/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121221171717-42995300.jpeg?rev=1

The minister of interior Vinko Gorenjak (spit on floor) has already declared the protests illegal and some of the organizers have been found and charged between 200 and 8000 euros in fines, whats (not) suprising, the most mentioned are Independence war veterans. You can guess it had the opposite effect on the population than desired.

Our beloved führer... khm, prime minister has declared the protests a march of the zombies. still clinging to his theory, the protests are designed and orchestrated by the left, which is strange since the protests are against the left as fierce as against jansas right. Still trying to use his divisive strategy againt a population that has enough of his manure.


And me ??
I'm home, going to a birthday party of my friend in a couple of hours. I'll keep you updated.

soopaman2
12-21-12, 12:50 PM
Betenov, your country has always been interesting.

It has been fought over for over a thousand years, you are in the dead middle of Christian and Muslim influence.

I always found the Balkans an interesting place, and ethnically unique.

Ever since Roman times it was fought over, the clash of Christianity and Islam later on turned the place into a tinderbox.

Is it getting better there, after the past events? It got bad for a few years after soviet communism lost its footing in that region.

Betonov
12-21-12, 01:43 PM
Finnaly, a good shot of the protests in front of the parliament

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121221/sipice.jpg?rev=0



Soops, you should really visit the place. A lousy US pay is an average Slovene so you'd find it cheap. And it's rare to find a building younger than 200 years in the old towns

Betonov
12-21-12, 01:48 PM
Is it getting better there, after the past events? It got bad for a few years after soviet communism lost its footing in that region.

Yugoslavia had a milder form of communism. It was so good to live under the red star that I can't stand my parents going nostalgic on me every lunch. And I mean full nostalgic EVERY lunch. And most of the time I trust them. They had it easier back then.

I got bad for every ex-YU country except Slovenia. The 90's were booming.

soopaman2
12-21-12, 02:11 PM
Yugoslavia had a milder form of communism. It was so good to live under the red star that I can't stand my parents going nostalgic on me every lunch. And I mean full nostalgic EVERY lunch. And most of the time I trust them. They had it easier back then.

I got bad for every ex-YU country except Slovenia. The 90's were booming.


Here in America, we see the collapse of communism as a triumph.

I think the Americans and Soviets got so wrapped up in themselves, they forgot the millions who could prosper or die if the status quo was upset. I was a child of the cold war, and Russians, and communism was BADDDDD!

I am sorry your region once again became a battleground for ideology in modern times. Can't blame the Turks this time :D

Betonov
12-21-12, 04:01 PM
the protests are over, 8000 people counted in Ljubljana.
No riots, no incidents. Some loudmouths with firecrackers that are on their way to the drunk tank.
I love how the rulling party members twitted rubbish, that even more infuriated the population. Like they want a riot.

Well, according to our PM the zombie apocalypse began in Ljubljana :woot:

http://www.delo.si/assets/media/picture/20121221/670x420_Delo_Foto-20121221203414-20857600.jpeg?rev=1

Betonov
12-21-12, 04:15 PM
Soops, tthe problem with the legacy of the cold war is the stuborn unacceptance of anything good that came from socialism.
We like our socialism. We like going to the doctor without having to check our bank account first, our free colleges, our goverment nonprofit apartments where young fammilies can start providing until one gets better wages.

The protests started because the goverment wanted to go for a more western system.

Don't get me wrong, we like the Yenks. It's the USA as a country that we see as the new Vienna/Belgrade. We want a trading partner, not a big brother

Jimbuna
12-21-12, 05:12 PM
Then start by telling the guitar player to take a shave and a shower :)

j/k

Betonov
01-18-13, 01:04 PM
Nothing new in the balkans. Every protest since then has been the same, our PM flew to Azerbaijan too meet with the most corrupt politician of 2012, the Police force is on strike, teachers are on strike, everybody in the public sector either strikes or threatens to strike and all the while the goverment keeps telling us that we are zombies, led by the communist godfathers in the shadows that no one believes they actually exist and the clergy with their untaxed millions tells poor people it's their own fault because their children are hungry.

One day things might get bloody and I welcome that day.

And one article in English for anyone interested
http://criticallegalthinking.com/2013/01/16/the-people-returns-a-footnote-to-protests-in-slovenia/

Betonov
02-08-13, 02:57 AM
Interesting day today.

February 8th, Slovene day of culture and the masses have organized another large protest in Ljubljana. February 8th is a work free day afterall.

The catch is, that the rulling party have organised a separate rally in support of our PM, smae time, same place and we might just have a civil war today :hmmm:

And as in every holliday, I'll be working today :/\\!!