The Sopranos

[Onkel Neal]

I loved this show, although I only started watching well after it was off the air. There's always been this big debate over how the show ended, and I wonder what your thoughts are?

Ending on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnT7nYbCSvM) (spoiler, this is the ending of the series, eh? So if ever plan to watch the show, skip this)

Another analysis, this is the one I came across today. (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2012/12/alan_sepinwall_s_the_revolution_was_televised_exce rpt_david_chase_and_the.single.html)

[Sailor Steve]

Nope, never saw it. It's on my (very long) list of shows I mean to watch someday.

[Gerald]

I saw most of it, good and entertaining,:yep:

[Dowly]

I took the ending as Tony being killed.

Most of the series is from Tony's point of view, so the abrupt end just feels logical if you think that he was shot. :hmmm:

"You probably don't even hear it, when it happens." (Bobby)

Oh, found this documentary the other day. Never finished it, but I'll just leave it here.
The Real Sopranos Documentary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwDfakkTPTs)

Also, on the topic of Mafia, these were pretty interesting too:
Way of the Wiseguy Transcripts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4tsq3HXPB4)
Way of the Wiseguy Transcripts Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsmoPjPHmdE)
Way of the WIseguy Transcripts Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5BSm6mmSs)

Recorded phone calls between Joe Pistone (aka Donnie Brasco) and Benjamin "Lefty" Ruggiero.

Really need to get one of Pistone's books. :hmmm:

[Egan]

Still my favourite show. I've seen the entire run about three times now in total.

As for the last episode. I've read all the different theories, and there are some good ones out there. What I think, though, is this:


******SPOILER*******

All the stuff at the end, including the Italian guy in the bar looking over his shoulder, are red herrings. Nothing happens to Tony. The show ends and his life continues on as it always has. There is no punishment, there is no divine retribution for his sins, there is no answering for his crimes. The show ends, He has a nice meal with his family, goes home and the very next day steals more and ruins someone elses life. That's life.

[Armistead]

Good show, but Deadwood remains my favorite of the HBO series, even if they didn't finish it.

[mookiemookie]

Good show, but Deadwood remains my favorite of the HBO series, even if they didn't finish it.

Agreed. I always get a kick out of seeing the actors/actresses from Deadwood in other things. Like I'm playing Dishonored right now, and one of the characters is voiced by Brad Dourif. I was sitting there and all of a sudden, BAM, Doc Cochran is talking to me. I can't hear his voice and not hear Doc Cochran.

[Jimbuna]

My friend Kratos has them all on DVD and I'm still waiting on him to keep his long made ago promise to lend me them :stare:

[Stealhead]

If you ask me "The Wire" was the best HBO series.My perception of the last Sopranos episode was that Tony survived just fine.

[Armistead]

Agreed. I always get a kick out of seeing the actors/actresses from Deadwood in other things. Like I'm playing Dishonored right now, and one of the characters is voiced by Brad Dourif. I was sitting there and all of a sudden, BAM, Doc Cochran is talking to me. I can't hear his voice and not hear Doc Cochran.

Yea, you do see them around. Deadwood had the best one liners and cussing ever. The fact is they could never release it for TV, because no way to clean up the cussing, sex, violence and still have a show left, thus they let it die after Hurst.

[Takeda Shingen]

By my last check, HBO aired on television. Besides, if Sex in the City could be sanitized enough for syndication, so could Deadwood.

[Armistead]

My friend Kratos has them all on DVD and I'm still waiting on him to keep his long made ago promise to lend me them :stare:

Pay attention to it, you'll learn some good new words and lines that will come in handy here for rebuke,

[Armistead]

By my last check, HBO aired on television.

I hope you know what I mean......if not, well, someone will explain it to you:O::O:

You couldn't clean Deadwood up for TV as every other word was followed by F...

[Takeda Shingen]

I hope you know what I mean......if not, well, someone will explain it to you:O::O:

Needs more emoticons.

You couldn't clean Deadwood up for TV as every other word was followed by F...

I bet that they could if they thought that they could get a buck out of it. Money, or the promise of money, works wonders.

[Dowly]

Needs more emoticons.

:O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O:

[Takeda Shingen]

Perfect.

[Armistead]

Needs more emoticons.



I bet that they could if they thought that they could get a buck out of it. Money, or the promise of money, works wonders.

Producers agreed not to even try, said they would have to write a new script.

Here's ya some more emoticons....:woot::haha::har:

[Sailor Steve]

Besides, if Sex in the City could be sanitized enough for syndication, so could Deadwood.
It could, but each episode would be fifteen minutes long. :dead:

[Takeda Shingen]

Producers agreed not to even try, said they would have to write a new script.

They could get away with a lot more than they could even as recently as 2006. I'm convinced that they could make an adaption for syndication if interest was expressed.

Here's ya some more emoticons....:woot::haha::har:

Good post. Good post.

[Egan]

Not only does The Sopranos remain my favourite TV show of all time, the season three episode with Chris and Pauly lost in the Pine-barrens remains the best hour of television I've ever seen.

Just genius. Perfect, stupid genius.

[Jimbuna]

Pay attention to it, you'll learn some good new words and lines that will come in handy here for rebuke,

I'll ring the bugga during the week then :)

[August]

Best HBO series ever was Band of Brothers. Fact. :yep:

[Bilge_Rat]

Saw parts of "The Sopranos", but never really got into it, although my wife loved the show. I thought the ending was on par with the rest of the show. :D

Loved "Deadwood", although I thought it lost its way after the second season. My wife hated the show.

We both loved "Sex in the city". She was already a fan. I had never seen it before, but thought it actually had a lot of interesting insights on relationships between adult men and women.

Like "Boardwalk Empire", although I think it has tailed off since the first season.

By far the best TV show I have seen in a long time is "Breaking Bad". It is not available on TV up here in Canada, but I have seen the first 4 seasons on DVD and am waiting anxiously until I can buy season 5 (please, no spoilers). Great writing, great acting, Season 4 was a masterpiece...see it, its a must. :up:

[mookiemookie]

Like "Boardwalk Empire", although I think it has tailed off since the first season.

See, I disagree. I think it went through a slow bit in Season 2, but this season has been outstanding. The pacing is a bit slow at times, but I've learned to go with it as it's usually for a reason and there's usually a payoff that makes it worth it. It's a show that really rewards patience and it plays a long game in storytelling. It's absolutely one of my favorites on TV right now.

[Egan]

See, I disagree. I think it went through a slow bit in Season 2, but this season has been outstanding. The pacing is a bit slow at times, but I've learned to go with it as it's usually for a reason and there's usually a payoff that makes it worth it. It's a show that really rewards patience and it plays a long game in storytelling. It's absolutely one of my favorites on TV right now.

I tend to agree. To be honest, I thought the first season was so lousy I nearly didn't bother with the next one. I'm glad I did. It's a great show.

Deadwood was fantastic in the first season but dipped badly in the next one. I don't think I've even seen any of the third one.

Now, aside from Game of Thrones, the one I'm really waiting for is the third season of The Borgias. I flat out love that show. As far as I'm concerned, this is the logical successor and follow up to Rome (and what a show that was, too.)

[u crank]

I have watched the entire six seasons in sequence twice. I give it top marks in all areas. Well written and acted. I would recommend it. I only had one problem with it. I didn't really like any of the main characters. I know they're bad guys but still no empathy. My favourite series, 'The Wire', was different.

As for the end of 'The Sopranos', I heard about it long before I actually saw it, so it was a bad ending I knew about.

[Platapus]

The Frau was into the Sppranos in a huge way. I watched a few episodes. It was pretty good.

[Onkel Neal]

If you ask me "The Wire" was the best HBO series.My perception of the last Sopranos episode was that Tony survived just fine.

I have a heard a lot of good things about the Wire, that's on my list to see. :yep:

Not only does The Sopranos remain my favourite TV show of all time, the season three episode with Chris and Pauly lost in the Pine-barrens remains the best hour of television I've ever seen.

Just genius. Perfect, stupid genius.

Yes indeed, and the fact that the Russian is still out there... perfect.
The episode Long Term Parking, oh god that was chilling. I still get kinda angry when I think about it :stare:



By far the best TV show I have seen in a long time is "Breaking Bad". It is not available on TV up here in Canada, but I have seen the first 4 seasons on DVD and am waiting anxiously until I can buy season 5 (please, no spoilers). Great writing, great acting, Season 4 was a masterpiece...see it, its a must. :up:

We agree, BB is IMO the very best TV series I've ever seen, in terms of writing, plot, and acting. You know you can watch eps of S5 on Amazon for .99 cents?

Re: Sopranos finale, I'm not sure why anyone thinks Tony gets whacked. There was the Members Only guy looking him over before going to the can, but really, without any other evidence, like a gunshot sound or scream, I have to say the series just ended... Tony will be getting the paper in his robe tomorrow.

[Stealhead]

I just watched an episode from season 1 on HBO Signature.I think it was called 46 long the second episode ever.

What was the name of the episode where they got lost in the pine barons called? I can vaguely recall that one but I liked it.

@ U Crank dude spoiler alert my friend not all have seen The Wire and you will ruin a major player in the story for them.(I have myself but still you should edit that out)

I thought that the last episode of the first season where the younger slingers have to do that thing that was hard to watch and in the last season the one guy that Mcnulty turned.
I really wish they would have gone on with The Wire I was really getting into some of the younger characters like Micheal.

David Simon went on to create Treme which is pretty good as well but the focus is different and I don't like it as much a I like The Wire but several good actors from The Wire are in Treme.

Board Walk Empire I like but I find that the only character I really like is Richard the WWI vet.Of course there are many very interesting characters in Empire and of course you have Chalky White.

[Dowly]

What was the name of the episode where they got lost in the pine barons called? I can vaguely recall that one but I liked it.

"Pine Barrens", season 3 Ep. 11

[Egan]

Yes indeed, and the fact that the Russian is still out there... perfect.
The episode Long Term Parking, oh god that was chilling. I still get kinda angry when I think about it :stare:


And not just a Russian....but an 'interior decorator who killed 15 Czechoslovakians!" :D

I'm trying to remember what episode it was had that line '..And the last face you see won't be Tony's, it'll be mine. It won't be like the movies." Great line. I think Tony had sent Patsy to deal with one of Tony's girlfriends.

[Egan]

"Pine Barrens", season 3 Ep. 11


And directed by Steve Buscemi, if I remember right.

[mookiemookie]

Re: Sopranos finale, I'm not sure why anyone thinks Tony gets whacked. There was the Members Only guy looking him over before going to the can, but really, without any other evidence, like a gunshot sound or scream, I have to say the series just ended... Tony will be getting the paper in his robe tomorrow.

One of my favorite classes in college was Intro to Film. It was amazing how much more you can appreciate movies and TV when you have things pointed out to you and you learn about cinematography and why things are shot the way they are and all that.

So I'm firmly in the "Tony's dead" camp. Here's why:

First off there's the "You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?" comment that Tony makes. Remember, in film and TV, every line of dialogue is carefully crafted and is there for a reason. It's planting the seed in the viewer's mind and it's a foreshadowing of what's to come.

Also, If you break it down very carefully from a cinematography angle, it's pretty clear that he was killed. When Tony walks into the restaurant, the bell on the door dings, he stands there, then you see the restaurant from his point of view. That shot establishes that we're going to be bouncing back and forth from seeing Tony to seeing things from his point of view in this scene.

So as the scene goes on we go from seeing Tony at the table. *DING* back to his point of view and he watches someone come in the door. On and on that goes. Tony, then *DING* then Tony's point of view. Tony, then *DING* then point of view. The director is doing some classic Pavlov conditioning of the audience. Hear a bell, and you see Tony's point of view.

Then they throw a wrench into it. You see the guy in the jacket come walking in, THEN you hear the *DING*and Tony looks up to see him walking in the place in front of A.J. So why would this guy be different than the others to walk in? Why do we see him before the *DING*. Why is A.J. covered up by this guy. He's some random dude that we don't know, and A.J. is a character we know. Why would the director obscure a character who should be the focal point of the shot with some random guy? It's because this guy is important.

There's the obvious clues too, where he's nervously tapping his fingers, and going out of his way to look away from Tony as he walks by. The camera follows the guy all the way to the bathroom. And then the shot ends with this:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/alessonaday/RnIRytC7qyI/AAAAAAAAAGE/aAhWNti49do/s400/5802memberswalk2.jpg

See how A.J. and Carmela are together on one side of the table, and Tony is framed in that door frame with the jacket guy? That's telling you something. It's putting a separation between Tony and his family, and it's essentially putting Tony in a "box" with the assassin.

Yadda yadda, moving on...

The payoff and the key to the whole scene is that Tony hears the door *DING* (presumably Meadow is walking in) and since we've already established the pattern here - Tony, then *DING* then Tony's point of view, this says a lot. We hear the *DING* then we get 10 seconds of black. It's a long time before the credits are shown, so the director is trying to really hammer the point home that the black is part of the show. It's there for a reason. So Tony's point of view is blackness. Death.

And that, Neal, is your Skybird-length explanation of why people believe he was whacked.

[August]

If the camera was in "Tony-view" mode when the screen went black then maybe Mookie has something with his beginner film course training but if not there is enough ambiguity to allow the series and Tony to appear in a sequel which is probably the whole reason it was done that way.

You kill off the star and if they bring the series back again it would be without him at least without some plot gymnastics to account for it.

[Onkel Neal]

One of my favorite classes in college was Intro to Film. It was and TV, every line of dialogue he pattern here - Tony, then *DING* then Tony's point of view, this says a lot. We hear the *DING* then we get 10 seconds of black. It's a long time before the credits are shown, so the director is trying to really hammer the point home that the black is part of the show. It's there for a reason. So Tony's point of view is blackness. Death.

And that, Neal, is your Skybird-length explanation of why people believe he was whacked.

And that, my friend, is a very good analysis. I think I agree. Never heard it described this thoroughly before. :thumbup:

[Armistead]

If the camera was in "Tony-view" mode when the screen went black then maybe Mookie has something with his beginner film course training but if not there is enough ambiguity to allow the series and Tony to appear in a sequel which is probably the whole reason it was done that way.

You kill off the star and if they bring the series back again it would be without him at least without some plot gymnastics to account for it.


Yea, Tony fell asleep :haha:

The only thing that didn't make sense to me, why kill him in public with all the people around, this wasn't the 20's. That seemed stupid and sort of ruined the end for me. You would assume they drove, people would see faces, cameras, possible police. I don't see another boss risking his men getting caught and becoming rats.

Tony should've went out tied to a chair in a basement, cussing and fighting or crying like a baby and begging for his life. When you watch a show that long, you deserve to see the star get what was coming.

[Dowly]

And directed by Steve Buscemi, if I remember right.

Yeah, think so. :hmmm:

[u crank]

@ U Crank dude spoiler alert my friend not all have seen The Wire and you will ruin a major player in the story for them.(I have myself but still you should edit that out)

Done. Thanks for the heads up. I should have known better 'cause I hate when that happens.

I thought that the last episode of the first season where the younger slingers have to do that thing that was hard to watch and in the last season the one guy that Mcnulty turned.
I really wish they would have gone on with The Wire I was really getting into some of the younger characters like Micheal.

More good stuff. It was an excellent show. I'm thinking of watching it again.

[Nippelspanner]

Best HBO series ever was Band of Brothers. Fact. :yep:

Nope, opinion, no matter how bad you want it to be a fact. :D

For me, Sopranos is the best series ever made. I have only seen all episodes twice and never ever had a feeling like "meh... this episode was ok, but nuttn special!".
Every episode made me drop my jaw, specially because of the deep characters. Tony is the best example. What a terrible guy he is, right? But on the other side, we all still like him, see the other side of the medal.

Regarding the ending. For me, Tony is dead. If you watch it very closely (and know the whole series very(!) well, you will see TONS of indications that he was shot. Before I bore you with my poorly chosen words, Ill just smash an awesome link in, with an analysis that should convince anyone abut what exactly happened - and why.
Additionally, David Chase (after being annoyed to death by all the questions about the end of the series) confirmed T´s death. Not directly, but very clearly.

The Sopranos: Definate explanation of the END (http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/)

It is a long read - but... Watcha gonna do about it?







Oh and... Tony does not appreciate this analysis:
(EDIT1: Picture removed. Steve thinks Tony making a gesture, saying "Here´s your ending" is way too offensive in a Forum with lots of half naked women, dirty humor and many long time members saying bad words. My apologies to everyone for this heavy violation of the rules, I feel ashamed.)

EDIT2: I made it family friendly - it was waaaay too offensive before.
Thank all Gods for Photoshop!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6Mu8MByPbD8/UMOLHy4jI3I/AAAAAAAABNc/cLTo0fzManU/s315/Tony.jpg