Paypal advice

[ABBAFAN]

Hello Subsimmers, I have made a purchase on Paypal and wonder what people think of its reliability and security compared to other people etc.

[Twin Screws]

I've been using Paypal for over 8 years, not had any problems with it at all. :up:

[Skybird]

When their server get hacked and your account info gets stolen, you're prey.

[Onkel Neal]

Been using Paypal for thousands of transactions since 2002, never had an issue. They have support you can speak with by phone.

Skybird, that's true with any bank, merchant or utility. Has Paypal's server been hacked?

[Catfish]

Despite my worries i never had any problem with it, or charging fee problems. I like it for very fast payment, so the seller instantly saw that i paid, and i will often have the product the next day, or a day after.

It is also great for buying all kind of things abroad with no problems, e.g. via eBay. I think it is very practical, which again this is why they will at some point tighten the thumb screws, and charge so much it will become a real pita :)

So much for my optimism ..:smug:

[TLAM Strike]

I guess I'll join in and say that I've been using Paypal for about three years now and never had a problem.

[Skybird]

Been using Paypal for thousands of transactions since 2002, never had an issue. They have support you can speak with by phone.

Skybird, that's true with any bank, merchant or utility. Has Paypal's server been hacked?
Remember Sony's promise some years ago at launch date of their PS3 that their servers are "unhackable"?

Where there is gold in a chest, pirates are not far away. And banking accounts on a server are chests bursting with gold and jewelry.

I just remind of that collections of such data are prey attracting a lot of attention.

I also remind of the many data accidents we have seen with military data. Lockheed loosing some terabyte of data on the F-35 to a probably Chinese hacker attack. Employees in the British MOD loosing or misplacing notebooks and datasticks. And so on.

Paypal may not have been hacked so far. But they sure as hell are positioned right in the centre of the crosshairs.

It is sound advice to instruct your bank to have limits on money that can be transferred per day. I have set that limit to the highest regular monthly payment that is automatically made for house maintenance costs. Any abuse of your paypal account would run into a wall there at the latest, plus it would ring the alarm bell.

And you are right, my criticism is valid for every shop I use online. That'S why I have deleted my ebay account this summer, my paypal account longer time ago (in protest over the Assange affair), my Visa-card. All transaction I cannot or want not to avoid I do via other people'S accounts. :D Only Amazon I risk to leave active, but I know that there is a risk for sure. Else I only use shops where I can pay via manual money transfer after delivery.

Sorry dear BND and NSA, I think my electronic signature is relatively small for today's standards. :D I'm a cash money fetishist.

[Skybird]

e.g. via eBay.
No wonder - Paypal IS Ebay. ;) That'S why they push it for professional sellers at ebay, it is an additional money collector for ebay.

[Dowly]

Been using it for years. :up:

[Twin Screws]

To Skybird :- I presume then, that you never cross a road ?
If your bank account gets hacked because you took a risk with someones server, you lose some cash.
If you get knocked down because you took a risk with someones driving, you could well lose your life.
I think I know which is the bigger risk. :yep:

[Herr-Berbunch]

I've used it for hundreds of transactions since 2002, not one problem with PayPal. You get risks with everything in life, and I'm sure some people have had an issue, just like some have with education, work, insurance, banking, or as above - crossing the road, or using Google. :03:

:O:

[Skybird]

I think it is just sound to minimize known risks and not to use carelessly and easy-minded technologies that have inherent dangers and risks. We have lived ourmloives with cellphones, smartphones and internet just two deacdes ago, and I just say: it was no worse life, not at all.

Such a life is possible. ;) And it has nothing to do with wanting back the safety of the cave in the stone age.

I am not against technology. But I think that many people, especially in America, and especially younger ones not knowing it differently anymore, take it for granted too carelessly, and have too uncritical an attitude towards it, and reflect too little about inherent problems, may it be regarding security, may it be regarding cultural changes that get enforced by changes in the technological world. Heck, Windows alone even changes our cognitive and psychological working modes, and I bet most people are not aware that instead of having a machine following the human they now work and organise their working processes according to the demands of the computer world. And this means a limitation and channeling of possible options. You do not think openly in creative terms, anymore - you think in terms defined and dictated by the working procedures of the OS and the used software. The machine is no longer there for you - you are there for the machine. ;)

Some awareness on these and other implications cannot hurt, I think. Else the homo sapiens' evolution sooner or later ends at a walking Gameboy set to endless demo-mode.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Awareness cannot hurt, you are correct, but you do come across as someone who is awfully paranoid about most things modern.

Embrace the modern era, because we won't be going back to an old one, even when the oil runs out it'll not be an old one - just another new modern one without all we've come to rely on. :yep:

[Gerald]

Been using Paypal for thousands of transactions since 2002, never had an issue. They have support you can speak with by phone.

Skybird, that's true with any bank, merchant or utility. Has Paypal's server been hacked? Paypal's local servers may have been trespassing, but no serious errors, for me it has worked perfect for eight years, and then it is about transactions around our globe.

[Takeda Shingen]

I've used paypal for SubSim donations and for selected online purchases. No problems what-so-ever for the past 10 years.

[Gerald]

When their server get hacked and your account info gets stolen, you're prey. These words that you deliver here Sky, could form the basis of any business, and paypal or Amex, etc, but my general opinion is that the paypal and Amex have good security.

[CaptainHaplo]

@OP

I have used Paypal for about a year - and I was not thrilled with the idea - but so far I have had NO problems whatsoever.

@Skybird - I work in IT for a major bank. Where do you think all the financial data is kept? On servers. Lots of them. All over the place. We have a HQ, and a backup HQ just in the US. Every branch office you can visit has a server. It doesn't matter who you use - somewhere your "money" is sitting in digital format on a server. Which means its possible it could get hacked. Which means your financial institution is a target. Better run and put your money under your mattress - but wouldn't that make YOU the target for the thieves?

Do you want them hacking one of "my" servers, knowing I have a large, dedicated team of people doing Intrusion Detection and Response, another team concerned purely with Data Security - or do you want them "hacking" down your door with an axe to get to whats under your mattress?

At least in the US - if your personal info is breached - there are remedies you can make use of. If it was the waitress at the diner stealing your card info, then she can get busted. If your financial institution does not adequately protect your data - as stated in the law if they did not do their due diligence - then you have a claim against them. Also - deposits are insured by almost all financial institutions (using the FDIC) up to 250k.

[Sailor Steve]

I was another who was leery about PayPal at first, and for a long time. Now I use it whenever I can. They gave me credit when no one else would, but that's only part of it. With PayPal I don't have to give anyone my credit card number, just my PayPal account. They have my CC (well, debit card actually, since no one will give me credit) number, and everything goes through them. Amazon has lost some business to eBay from me, because Amazon's bank won't give me the credit.

PayPal is now sending me a card I can use that works in stores, as it ties in with my bank account. Maybe it will even work on Amazon.

PayPal rules! :rock:

[AVGWarhawk]

I have had no issues with PP.

[Gargamel]

I even had a money market / savings account for a while with them and a Visa debit card that tied right into that paypal account.

[troopie]

Debit card is definately the way to go if you are still a bit concerned aout it all. It's all your money on it so if it gets abused you can loose a little but you'll never end up owing anything.

I just keep enough in there to cover bank fees ($10-$20 or so) and then put the amount I need on the card when I wish to make a transaction; once complete there's nothing left to steal.

[HunterICX]

Using Pay Pal for 2 years now, no problems and it's an excellent way to do purchases online.

HunterICX

[Betonov]

Perfect timing for this thread.

Received my Visa yesterday and I can finnaly make an account on PayPal.

I understand Skybirds fears and have them myself, but risk is something we have to take. Anywhere and anytime in life. That's why it's called life

[Herr-Berbunch]

Hope it all goes swimmingly for you, Bet. Don't go overboard with your Visa though. :up:

[Jimbuna]

Used PayPal for years and never had a problem, I even have a separate bank account dedicated to it but only transfer sufficient funds into it just prior to making a purchase.

[Betonov]

Hope it all goes swimmingly for you, Bet. Don't go overboard with your Visa though. :up:

It's Visa Electron, pre-paid. Before a purchase I'll just wire some money onto it. Can't spend if I don't have.

Oh, the first thing I do with my new PayPal account is wire Neil €20 for the subsim fund (finnaly)

[Skybird]

Haplo, every place where your data or a shopping account with access to your bank account is stored, is a risk. Obviously, the more such places exist where you have placed your data/accounts, the higher the chance that you get hit, in other words: the risk grows. That'S why it is a good idea to limit the number of such places. Not to have a hundred different shops on your shopping list, but just one or two. Not having five different banks for onlöine activity, but just the one that is needed as minimum. Not having a dozen credit cards, but just one - if even that.

Also, every shopping order done on a 'PC, is a risk. The system could be ifnected, keyloggers could be installed that either track keyboard activity or make screenshots after every keystroke. You can try to bypass that by using paste-copy via USB sticks. Then there could be other trojans. Read-out hardware installed on card readers, even that of your banking office.

I do not ring the panic bell, I just think it is smart to be aware opf all these things, instead of carelssly spreading your data and accounts and vulnerabilties all over the world. I compare it to watching left and right before crossing the street. Internet crime is exploding, the national police authorities warn of it again every year. the growth rates every year are deep in the two digit range.

I have one card by my home bank. I do online banking. I prefer cash payments in shops (also goes faster) and to get money at my bank to get over the month or week, instead of using plastic money all the time. I have cancelled my Visa and Paypal, although that was in protest to both companies submitting to US pressure over the Assange case. But I must tell you: a life without credit cards and paypal and internet shopping is possible. :) And often, it is a better life. :yep:

And another, very different thing. Electronic payment turns you allk into people made of glass. Authorities do track and record every payment that you make, and can establish a behavior and history profile of you by that. Not to mention what the business world and advertising companies make of such datasets... For people (Americans) that so often are about themes like "freedom" and "as little state as possible" and "not totalitarian control", it surprises me how careless Americans are regarding protection of privacy in the internet, and safety of financially relevant data, and exposing themselves to the total x-raying of themselves. It should be us Germans loving to be registered by state institutions and authorities and having their data stored away and never deleted for eons to come, that's our reputation, isn't it, the obedient, authority-loving German "Untertan". But Americans beat us easily regarding blind trust in authorities, law texts and state offices. ;)

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I have two reasons for using PayPal:

1. Some places accept either credit card or PayPal but not my Visa Electron debit card.

2. I don't want to give my debit card information to every shop and service I use. I see PayPal as more secure option - its not perfect but thats true with my bank too (I'm not aware of either having had security problems).

[sharkbit]

I haven't had any issues with Paypal myself. In fact, I prefer to use Paypal if available. Just seems safer than giving my information to a lot of different companies online. If I understand it correctly, vendors that accept Paypal won't see your credit card information.

Many, many, many years ago I was always leery of buying things on the internet and giving out credit card info. Now it is second nature.
Up until a few years ago, I used to play a fair amount of online poker and I just got used to moving money around on the internet from account to account, even transfering funds to and from my checking account on occasion.

:)

[flostt]

Logging into PayPal is like logging into an e-mail account....user name and a password...that's all... is this safe? :o

Every bank having an online banking service has more validation features in order to authorize / check if you may access the account or not....

[Egan]

Used it 4 times this evening. I probably use it hundreds of times a year. Never once had a problem with it. I pretty much don't buy from a website - with a couple of exceptions - unless they accept Paypal.

[darius359au]

Logging into PayPal is like logging into an e-mail account....user name and a password...that's all... is this safe? :o

Every bank having an online banking service has more validation features in order to authorize / check if you may access the account or not....

You can set Paypal up so it sends an sms code to your mobile phone which you need to enter to log in as well as username and password!

Paypals ok but the one problem I've got is the imaginary exchange rates they use for the Australian dollar to the U.S dollar ,they're alot less than the real rate ,not much if it's a small purchase but for big ones it's alot of money they get for nothing!!

[Herr-Berbunch]

Paypals ok but the one problem I've got is the imaginary exchange rates they use for the Australian dollar to the U.S dollar ,they're alot less than the real rate ,not much if it's a small purchase but for big ones it's alot of money they get for nothing!!

When I buy something in US$ I always check the current currency exchange rate, think it's okay, and then I'm usually pleasantly surprised that I get a better rate with PP.

Aussie Dinar I've not tried. :03:

[Jimbuna]

When I buy something in US$ I always check the current currency exchange rate, think it's okay, and then I'm usually pleasantly surprised that I get a better rate with PP.

Aussie Dinar I've not tried. :03:

Now that surprises me because every time I check the exchange rate is way below what it is on the international currency market.

[darius359au]

When I buy something in US$ I always check the current currency exchange rate, think it's okay, and then I'm usually pleasantly surprised that I get a better rate with PP.

Aussie Dinar I've not tried. :03:

currently $1.04 U.S buys you one Aussie dollar ,paypal exchanges at $1.01 or even parity (I think they chuck darts at a board to set their exchange rate ,it's not even close to reality:/\\!!)

[Herr-Berbunch]

Well there's business market rates or travellers rates, maybe I look at the wrong one?

[Sailor Steve]

Logging into PayPal is like logging into an e-mail account....user name and a password...that's all... is this safe? :o

Every bank having an online banking service has more validation features in order to authorize / check if you may access the account or not....
PayPal automatically and instantly sends a email to you every time your account is used. You actually have some time to examine and cancel any transaction. After that they do a good job of handling any complaints, and they will go to bat for you if something bad has happened. PayPal is proud of its reputation, and deservedly so.

[ABBAFAN]

Cheers.