View Full Version : Chinese carrier in landing and take-off tests
http://www.smh.com.au/world/happy-landing-for-chinas-fighter-jet-20121126-2a2or.html
Looks like the progress on this is going to plan so far...
Spoon 11th
11-26-12, 05:04 AM
More footage
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d8d_1353822355
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwJWSoCl79Q
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 06:31 AM
Unfortunately only the second link worked for me.
I still make them a decade or more behind the US in carrier operational terms but it was amusing watching them combing the flight deck...a new skill they have quickly learnt :)
Aye remove any possibility of FOD before landing or takeoff!
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 06:43 AM
Rgr that.
One carrier, a navy does not make. They certainly are a long ways off the power projection that the US carrier fleet can muster, but they are a a potent regional threat and will have the likes of India, Taiwan and South Korea nervous for a while to come with the fleet they are building over the next few years and the carrier and the J-15 will definitely be a big part of their regional strategy. Whether the J-15 works or not as a weapons platform will be interesting to observe.
Just hope they decide to stay north of the equator and don't decide they don't want to buy our minerals and farms any more, preferring to just take them.
troopie
11-26-12, 07:01 AM
Just hope they decide to stay north of the equator and don't decide they don't want to buy our minerals and farms any more, preferring to just take them.
Ha ha, rgr That!
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 07:55 AM
One carrier, a navy does not make. They certainly are a long ways off the power projection that the US carrier fleet can muster, but they are a a potent regional threat and will have the likes of India, Taiwan and South Korea nervous for a while to come with the fleet they are building over the next few years and the carrier and the J-15 will definitely be a big part of their regional strategy. Whether the J-15 works or not as a weapons platform will be interesting to observe.
Just hope they decide to stay north of the equator and don't decide they don't want to buy our minerals and farms any more, preferring to just take them.
You could always turn to your secret weapon as a last resort...the drop bear :)
Sailor Steve
11-26-12, 07:57 AM
Article posted on Subsim's front page. :sunny:
troopie
11-26-12, 08:00 AM
You could always turn to your secret weapon as a last resort...the drop bear :)
Yeah, a land invasion is definately out of the question! :D
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 08:11 AM
Yeah, a land invasion is definately out of the question! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULEQpUY_crc
:03:
AriesRCN
11-26-12, 08:16 AM
What i have always loved was that the intel community has always said that
1) China will never aquire an aircraft carrier
2) China will never refit the aircraft carrier
3)it will not put to sea until 2013/14
4)ok, it put to sea, but it is only a training platform and will not have a weapon system or advanced sensors
5) ok, so it has weapons and advanced sensors, but it wont have aircraft land on it untill 2014/15
6) ok, an aircraft landed, but it will never have a full airwing
I love the intel guys, and i cant believe that this time next year i will be part of them.
troopie
11-26-12, 08:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULEQpUY_crc
:03:
Ha Ha, well picked Jim!
Though, i gotta say, as funny as the ad is (I'm a convicted Bundy drinker btw!), prospective visitors shouldn't take the threat to lightly: :03:
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 08:34 AM
Ha Ha, well picked Jim!
Though, i gotta say, as funny as the ad is (I'm a convicted Bundy drinker btw!), prospective visitors shouldn't take the threat to lightly: :03:
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Yep love the Bundy rum myself...got a bottle from TarJak a few years ago and have bought the odd bottle ever since :sunny:
Herr-Berbunch
11-26-12, 08:44 AM
It seemed a very long trap! :o
And I see no catapult. :o
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 08:48 AM
It seemed a very long trap! :o
And I see no catapult. :o
It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a catapult on her yet but the propaganda message imo was "Look we now have carrier airborne capability".
AriesRCN
11-26-12, 08:50 AM
The Chinese aircraft carrier (and most of europe) do not use catapults. They use the ski jump system.
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 08:55 AM
The Chinese aircraft carrier (and most of europe) do not use catapults. They use the ski jump system.
Yeah, fair comment.
troopie
11-26-12, 09:09 AM
Yep love the Bundy rum myself...got a bottle from TarJak a few years ago and have bought the odd bottle ever since :sunny:
Wow, don't know what to say to that! I didn't think anyone outside Oz drank that! It's a silly thing to have in common but it's good to hear others appreciate it!
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 09:23 AM
Wow, don't know what to say to that! I didn't think anyone outside Oz drank that! It's a silly thing to have in common but it's good to hear others appreciate it!
Goes well with Schweppes Peppermint Cordial
http://images.mysupermarket.co.uk/Products_1000/27/009527.jpg
nikimcbee
11-26-12, 10:08 AM
I wonder how many times they watched "Top Gun" before they figured it out?
nikimcbee
11-26-12, 10:13 AM
It seemed a very long trap! :o
And I see no catapult. :o
http://www.healthstones.com/knights_and_dragons_store/schleich_world_of_knights/schleich_castle/schleich_catapult/schleich_catapult.jpg
That's because they were embarrassed, when they realized they installed the wrong type.
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 10:14 AM
I wonder how many times they watched "Top Gun" before they figured it out?
First few attempts probably looked accidentally like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LzZ1ORjSjk
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 10:27 AM
Well I've yet to see a carrier based aircraft from a certain scandinavian country :hmmm:
Well, that post was for #22 :doh:
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 10:33 AM
Ah, right...never saw that but in fairness you were pointing to my post.
Congratulations...another thread derailed :doh:
Ah, right...never saw that but in fairness you were pointing to my post.
Congratulations...another thread derailed :doh: :har: :har: :har:...We posted at the same time by the clock,:haha: Congratulations...another thread derailed :har:
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 12:09 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5AgdRUqGmUY/Tfcw1GG5lsI/AAAAAAAAAYE/mwddtJ36OM0/s1600/chinese_carrier_inpond.jpg
Armistead
11-26-12, 02:41 PM
China is so far behind it would take 50 years of massive effort and spending before they could ever be a threat in the sea.
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 02:46 PM
China is so far behind it would take 50 years of massive effort and spending before they could ever be a threat in the sea.
I'm not so sure that is the case in areas close to home and where the US don't have a carrier battle group on station.
I'm not so sure that is the case in areas close to home and where the US don't have a carrier battle group on station.
Not many places where that isn't the case. There's usually a CBG or two sitting in or near Japan within easy reach of anywhere along the Chinese coastline and surrounding area.
Karle94
11-26-12, 03:10 PM
Why be afraid of it? The J-15/SU-33 can`t take off with much fuel and arnament and is as such practically useless. Only cats can launch a plane fully fueled and armed. A feature only American and French carriers both present and future will have.
Armistead
11-26-12, 03:20 PM
I'm not so sure that is the case in areas close to home and where the US don't have a carrier battle group on station.
We will always know where it is...
danasan
11-26-12, 03:25 PM
Well I've yet to see a carrier based aircraft from a certain scandinavian country :hmmm:
Oh, they've had them for decades...
http://imworld.aufeminin.com/dossiers/bdf/Karlsson-MatsWikstroem-frueher-UfaDVD.jpg
TLAM Strike
11-26-12, 03:41 PM
In other news this got its first flight earlier this month...
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5406/chinastealthjet2385391b.jpg
nikimcbee
11-26-12, 03:55 PM
Oh, they've had them for decades...
http://imworld.aufeminin.com/dossiers/bdf/Karlsson-MatsWikstroem-frueher-UfaDVD.jpg
Saab?
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 03:57 PM
Not many places where that isn't the case. There's usually a CBG or two sitting in or near Japan within easy reach of anywhere along the Chinese coastline and surrounding area.
Only for as long as the US continue to fund such assets.
danasan
11-26-12, 03:58 PM
Saab, but solid as a Volvo
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 03:58 PM
Why be afraid of it? The J-15/SU-33 can`t take off with much fuel and arnament and is as such practically useless. Only cats can launch a plane fully fueled and armed. A feature only American and French carriers both present and future will have.
Good point but times are changing austerity measure wise.
danasan
11-26-12, 04:01 PM
Only for as long as the US continue to fund such assets.
That is a good point, Jim. I wonder how long will the USA continue their politics regarding Taiwan etc. ...
Why be afraid of it? The J-15/SU-33 can`t take off with much fuel and arnament and is as such practically useless. Only cats can launch a plane fully fueled and armed. A feature only American and French carriers both present and future will have.
The J-15 is not exactly a top line fighter, it's not a bad fighter but its engines are...not brilliant and are probably the weakest part of the whole design.
It probably has better sensors than the Su-33, and the AAMs aren't to be sniffed at...but yes, she most likely has shorter legs than a Hornet and they don't have any carrier bourne tankers at the moment.
Still, it's baby steps, the Liaoning was basically intended as a trainer ship, to get pilots and sailors into the frame of mind of carrier operations in a manner that a chalk outline in the middle of nowhere can't do. The next two carriers are, I believe, under construction now or are due to be started very shortly.
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 04:09 PM
That is a good point, Jim. I wonder how long will the USA continue their politics regarding Taiwan etc. ...
IMHO the Chinese are playing a waiting game whilst slowly building up their own military capability.
I DO NOT wish them success because it is possible that strategy will eventually lead to global conflict.
Only for as long as the US continue to fund such assets.
True, but the US is shifting to a Pacific focus following the introduction of new assets into the PLAN, hence why Australia is getting some US Marines coming to visit and some shiny new M1A1 Abrams to play with. Therefore, it would be very surprising if there wasn't at least one carrier at all times in the Yokohama region, after all there's not only the PRC but the DPRK to think about, plus operations towards Pakistan and up into the Gulf. With Egypt not sure what side it would be on in any conflict with Iran, sending a carrier group through the Suez would be a risky thing to do, so if I were America I'd look at bolstering somewhere like Diego Garcia up a bit as a good stopping off point and fuelling point for a CBG or two.
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 04:15 PM
True, but the US is shifting to a Pacific focus following the introduction of new assets into the PLAN, hence why Australia is getting some US Marines coming to visit and some shiny new M1A1 Abrams to play with. Therefore, it would be very surprising if there wasn't at least one carrier at all times in the Yokohama region, after all there's not only the PRC but the DPRK to think about, plus operations towards Pakistan and up into the Gulf. With Egypt not sure what side it would be on in any conflict with Iran, sending a carrier group through the Suez would be a risky thing to do, so if I were America I'd look at bolstering somewhere like Diego Garcia up a bit as a good stopping off point and fuelling point for a CBG or two.
I honestly don't see NK or Pakistan posing that much of a threat but nor do I see Australia having the capability of defending herself without a strong US ally....same for us now unfortunately, unless things escalated to nuclear warfare....heaven forbid.
Saab? In Swedish,"Karlsson på taket"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlsson-on-the-Roof :sunny:
kraznyi_oktjabr
11-26-12, 04:23 PM
Why be afraid of it? The J-15/SU-33 can`t take off with much fuel and arnament and is as such practically useless. Only cats can launch a plane fully fueled and armed. A feature only American and French carriers both present and future will have.May I ask why you think so? I have not seen plans nor even concepts of future Chinese aircraft carriers.
The next two carriers are, I believe, under construction now or are due to be started very shortly.From references section of Wikipedia's article "Chinese aircraft carrier programme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme)"7. ^ a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Chinese_aircraft_carrier#cite_ref-Under_Construction_2011_7-0) b (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Chinese_aircraft_carrier#cite_ref-Under_Construction_2011_7-1) Global Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Times), "PLA Chief Confirms Vessel Is 'Under Construction'", 8 June 2011.
and article itselfOn 7 June 2011, People's Liberation Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army) Chief of the General Staff Chen Bingde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Bingde) confirmed that China was constructing its own aircraft carrier. He stated he would provide no further details until it was complete.
IMHO the Chinese are playing a waiting game whilst slowly building up their own military capability.
I DO NOT wish them success because it is possible that strategy will eventually lead to global conflict.
This is true, the last estimate I saw had their military capable of hitting Taiwan by about 2018, however I reckon they'll wait until at least 2020 before they do anything...IF they do anything.
As it stands, right now, they benefit more from peace than they do from war, and as long as that remains the case then China will not conduct nor provoke any major military confrontation.
Taiwan, as it stands, is one of the PRCs major trading partners, and it's own military is no slouch. Politically it's a mess, and on its own it wouldn't be able to resist the PRC steamroller for more than a month. However, its infrastructure and industries would be ruined and it would cost the PRC many millions or billions to get Taiwan up and running again, therefore it would be a loss for the PRC in the long run. A major propaganda victory to take the last strongholds of the KMT, but there would be a government in exile set up somewhere which would continue to promote the goals of the KMT so it would be a bit of a bust politically. Plus there's the possibility of an underground resistance movement sparking off troubles in the rural parts of China or through the more liberal youth of the cities.
What the PRC would like the most is if Taiwan would become a Special Administrative or Autonomous Zone like Hong Kong and Macau. That would keep the lucrative trade, prevent conflict and reduce the likelihood of a civilian uprising. So it's likely that any large military would be used to lean heavily on Taiwan to do this as the 'best option for both of us'.
Of course, for this strategy to work, they have to either push the US out of the way of the Taiwan straits, or have enough military force available to counter-act it. The hope is to be able to achieve all this without firing a shot, after all, as Sun Tzu said, 'To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.'
However, in places like the Spratleys and Vietnam, that's another matter entirely, I could see limited military force being used to achieve Chinese goals in these areas.
Jimbuna
11-26-12, 04:52 PM
This is true, the last estimate I saw had their military capable of hitting Taiwan by about 2018, however I reckon they'll wait until at least 2020 before they do anything...IF they do anything.
As it stands, right now, they benefit more from peace than they do from war, and as long as that remains the case then China will not conduct nor provoke any major military confrontation.
Taiwan, as it stands, is one of the PRCs major trading partners, and it's own military is no slouch. Politically it's a mess, and on its own it wouldn't be able to resist the PRC steamroller for more than a month. However, its infrastructure and industries would be ruined and it would cost the PRC many millions or billions to get Taiwan up and running again, therefore it would be a loss for the PRC in the long run. A major propaganda victory to take the last strongholds of the KMT, but there would be a government in exile set up somewhere which would continue to promote the goals of the KMT so it would be a bit of a bust politically. Plus there's the possibility of an underground resistance movement sparking off troubles in the rural parts of China or through the more liberal youth of the cities.
What the PRC would like the most is if Taiwan would become a Special Administrative or Autonomous Zone like Hong Kong and Macau. That would keep the lucrative trade, prevent conflict and reduce the likelihood of a civilian uprising. So it's likely that any large military would be used to lean heavily on Taiwan to do this as the 'best option for both of us'.
Of course, for this strategy to work, they have to either push the US out of the way of the Taiwan straits, or have enough military force available to counter-act it. The hope is to be able to achieve all this without firing a shot, after all, as Sun Tzu said, 'To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.'
However, in places like the Spratleys and Vietnam, that's another matter entirely, I could see limited military force being used to achieve Chinese goals in these areas.
Agreed....but my major concern remains eventual nuclear/global conflict.
I fear the Chinese are harbouring old scores they mean to settle which can only bring them into conflict with the main nuclear players in the west.
I honestly don't see NK or Pakistan posing that much of a threat but nor do I see Australia having the capability of defending herself without a strong US ally....same for us now unfortunately, unless things escalated to nuclear warfare....heaven forbid.
I can't see either of them posing much of a threat either, but having a CBG in the area is enough to deter them from doing something monumentally stupid. The Norks have gone quiet again since Kim 2 died, I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing to be honest, you never can tell with the DPRK, but their military poses very little threat to even the ROK on its own.
Pakistan is playing a game that I don't think even Pakistan knows the outcome of, different parts of it trying to work with different people. I really don't know what they're playing at, but think it would probably be in our best interests to align more with India.
EDIT: In terms of a nuclear based conflict, I don't see China pushing for that since it will lose more than the US would in an exchange. It's a bigger country, yes, with a bigger population, true, but all of its major achievements lie in a cluster of coastal cities, there is a HUGE difference between the elite coastal cities and the poor rural interior, it's a bit like how it was in the UK in the industrial revolution where most of the countryside emptied into the cities looking for work and wound up in workhouses, only the workhouses in China are all owned by Apple and the like. China has quite a lot less nuclear warheads than the US does, so China could hit quite a few targets, but it would get a response that would put it back to the Feudal era. If, the US was stupid enough to get into a land based war with China then I could see nuclear weapons being potentially requested to stop the Chinese advance ala MacArthur, but even then it would be 50/50 if the release would be granted. After all, we were able to beat them back to the 38th parallel last time without resorting to buckets of sunshine, but admittedly this was the China of Mao, a completely different China to the one of today. Honestly there are too many variables to say for definite that a nuclear war would or would not happen...personally I couldn't see the PRC firing first, nor the US, both would be aware of the response that they would receive in terms of retaliation and global opinion, but there could certainly be situations arise where it could happen, just as there could have been during the Cold War, and almost were on a number of instances. Thankfully we have avoided that nightmare so far.
EDIT: EDIT: Thanks Kraznyi, that's what I thought I'd read. I have no idea if they're going to be CATOBAR or STOBAR, given the Liaoning is a STOBAR, as will be the Vikrant class carrier that the Indian navy is building, I'd hazard a guess that it'll be a STOBAR, but until the actual things are built or reliable info comes out it's hard to know for certain. Heck, I was under the impression that the Liaoning was going to be called the Admiral Shi Lang but for some reason they called it after the province it was made instead, probably politically motivated.
nikimcbee
11-26-12, 09:29 PM
This is true, the last estimate I saw had their military capable of hitting Taiwan by about 2018, however I reckon they'll wait until at least 2020 before they do anything...IF they do anything.
As it stands, right now, they benefit more from peace than they do from war, and as long as that remains the case then China will not conduct nor provoke any major military confrontation.
Taiwan, as it stands, is one of the PRCs major trading partners, and it's own military is no slouch. Politically it's a mess, and on its own it wouldn't be able to resist the PRC steamroller for more than a month. However, its infrastructure and industries would be ruined and it would cost the PRC many millions or billions to get Taiwan up and running again, therefore it would be a loss for the PRC in the long run. A major propaganda victory to take the last strongholds of the KMT, but there would be a government in exile set up somewhere which would continue to promote the goals of the KMT so it would be a bit of a bust politically. Plus there's the possibility of an underground resistance movement sparking off troubles in the rural parts of China or through the more liberal youth of the cities.
What the PRC would like the most is if Taiwan would become a Special Administrative or Autonomous Zone like Hong Kong and Macau. That would keep the lucrative trade, prevent conflict and reduce the likelihood of a civilian uprising. So it's likely that any large military would be used to lean heavily on Taiwan to do this as the 'best option for both of us'.
Of course, for this strategy to work, they have to either push the US out of the way of the Taiwan straits, or have enough military force available to counter-act it. The hope is to be able to achieve all this without firing a shot, after all, as Sun Tzu said, 'To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.'
However, in places like the Spratleys and Vietnam, that's another matter entirely, I could see limited military force being used to achieve Chinese goals in these areas.
Do you think once the "old guard" dies off, that they'll lose interest in Taking Taiwan by force? I agree 100% with you regarding the economic issues. The risk/reward seems to be too expensive. That's a lot of money to spend to have you're flag flying over them.:dead:
Do you think once the "old guard" dies off, that they'll lose interest in Taking Taiwan by force? I agree 100% with you regarding the economic issues. The risk/reward seems to be too expensive. That's a lot of money to spend to have you're flag flying over them.:dead:
It is possible, certainly the PRC seems to be gradually opening itself up a bit more, letting certain expressions of discontent by the liberal youth slide more than they did thirty or even twenty years ago. So there is a gradual shift towards a more open state, in which it is likely that many of the next generation of political leaders would be more inclined to let sleeping Taiwanese dogs lie, and perhaps even move towards an official ending of the civil war. However that's something for thirty or forty years down the line. At the moment I think that there's only one faction in the PRC that would consider taking Taiwan by force as a good option and that's the hardline Maoists, they care little for the economic dreams of Deng and the prosperity it has brought parts of China, they will look at things along a more ideological line and that will bring them into direct conflict with Taiwan. Thankfully, the present men of power have done a good job of sidelining Maoists and hardliners, Bo Xilai is a good example of this, the son of one of the men who orchestrated the Tiananmen Square massacre, he is the champion of the 'Chinese New Left' who are a group that feel that modern China has lost touch with the communist ideals that it was founded on, his spectacular fall from power has set the New Left back significantly and prevented a potential threat to the status quo, the maintenance of which is vital to the current Politburo and the success of the PRC.
What concerns me is the global economic slowdown is beginning to effect the PRC, its growth rate is slowing faster than initially predicting by Chinese analysts, and if the bubble bursts in the manner in which it did in the West, then a lot of happy Communists are going to become unhappy Communists, which will give the Maoists the leverage they need to increase their popular support, which will make it harder for the current Politburo to sideline their members. The last thing that the PRC, and indeed the entire world, needs is a 1991 Moscow coup attempt in Beijing.
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