UK Leaving the EU- A good thing to do?

[eddie]

Reading about the UK thinking of leaving the EU, and was wondering if the guys from the UK think its a good thing to do. One part that struck me was that if the UK wants to get rid of a terrorist suspect, they have to get the EU Courts permission!?! That alone would have me telling that court where to go and what it could do when it got there!

It looks like a lot of folks in the UK wouldn't mind leaving, is that the way it is seen by our members here from the UK?

http://news.msn.com/world/britain-mulls-split-with-eu-as-europe-plots-even-closer-ties

[Tribesman]

If Britain leaves we can too.
Unfortunately under the terms of the treaty the other countries name the price we or the Brits would have to pay.

One part that struck me was that if the UK wants to get rid of a terrorist suspect, they have to get the EU Courts permission!?! That alone would have me telling that court where to go and what it could do when it got there!

Bollox.
What you have there is British courts and British laws, some cases have gone to europe but all decisions have come down to the fact that the British government was breaking British laws and ignoring British courts.

[STEED]

First thing...The EU Courts have nothing to do with the EU.

My Answer....YES

Will we get the referendum vote? NEVER WILL.

We are being lied to by all our governments when they say Europe needs us and yet the trading to Europe is about 30% while we import from Europe about 70%. Why? Our heavy & medium industries are history and our light industry is on the floor.

Europe & the UK should get rid of the stinking vile corrupt EU now. Eighteen years now and still the EU books have not been written off..Well you don't say.

[Oberon]

Personally, right now, no, it's a terrible idea. Our economy is pretty geared towards trade with the EU and EU member states and we simply don't have the industry to support such an action.

If we were to focus on becoming increasingly self-sufficient in industries, then I would say, yes, but until then it would be akin to suddenly removing a limb, there would be blood loss, shock and severe damage to the person involved, which in this case would be the UK.

I'm also a little bit annoyed at the route that Dave is trying to take with the EU, being as obstructive as possible, because that is a quick way to get the UK marginalised in the EU and our voice ignored. It's like the one kid in a group that disagrees with everything just because he feels like being a jerk. If we were in a position to withdraw from the EU without our economy collapsing then I wouldn't care, but until we rebuild our industry then we really need to act like a member of the EU since we're stuck with it.

[Betonov]

Tell the courts to go somewhere with their demands.

Unlike us, that are on a tight leash, the UK pulls that leash.

[Madox58]

Uh Oh!
:o
Another thread about secedeing from a Union!

If Texas can't do it? Then The UK can't do it!

Argue amoungst yourselves...........
NOW!
:haha:

[Gerald]

"The Texas spring" :D

[Oberon]

"The Texas spring" :D

:haha::haha::haha::har::har::har::har: :up:

[Catfish]

I have said that before - if the UK (however the question is, if other nations than England will also leave the EU then, or rather separate from the UK) wants to leave - DO IT ! Chocks away !

From the Blenheim Palace speech, september 2012:

" ... Now, Britain's leaders need to decide once again how best to use their influence in Europe.
The EU is an English-speaking power. The Single Market was a British idea. A British commissioner runs our [polish] diplomatic service. You could, if only you wished, lead Europe's defence policy.

But if you refuse, please don't expect us to help you wreck or paralyze the EU. Do not underestimate our determination not to return to the politics of the 20 century. You were not occupied. Most of us on the continent were. We will do almost anything to prevent that from happening again. ..."


And DO read the whole Blenheim speech, then we will talk.

http://www.londyn.polemb.net/files/pdf/The%20Blenheim%20Palace%20Speech-ENG.pdf

Greetings,
Catfish

[Jimbuna]

Well seeing as how we currently trade 50% with europe and the current government as well as the main opposition party are pro europe I doubt we will leave.

The present government certainly don't want to take a chance and give the public a referendum....just in case.

[mapuc]

I'm a member of a group that's have only one goal-get Denmark out of EU.

Markus

[Red Brow]

The semi-regulated derivatives market is around 650 trillion dollars in value and when it let out a SMALL burp back in late 2007 the world financial markets seized up (Banks quit trading with banks) and nearly died (it was a three week span in Dec. 2007). About 400+ trillion derivatives just stopped trading. The EU and US banker big shots were running around looking for places to hide. Supposedly that bubble monster was tamed and shadow banking was taken in hand - for example by the US congress. Of course it was all just smoke and mirrors.

Even though markets like Wall Street HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT GLOBAL MARKET NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE - the mega-corporate-media has since then managed to paint into everyone's mind that the trouble began on Wall Street. Or that it began in August 2007. It did not. It began with Bear Sterns when the Big Kahunas thought to float a test balloon by trying to sell a tiny amount of financial banking toilet paper on the open market (something that had never been done) near the end of June 2007. The trouble was that most banks - especially the big ones - had been using that untested toilet paper as the basis of their bank's value. That is where the disaster began. because the selling of that Bear Sterns toilet paper fell in price until there were no takers - the price had fallen to zero. By July I watched as hundreds of $10,000 suits were running around like scared chickens trying to find ways to unload many versions of such toilet paper. August 2007 was merely the point where the media had a hard time hiding the disaster from the common news. Yet I did not see the alternative media really catch on till about October 2007.

The derivatives market simply papered over their trouble with about 150 trillion bucks of new toilet paper. Now the market is today rated at about 650 trillion bucks give or take 70 trillion depending on what month and year. But the REAL derivatives market that includes all derivatives - including those that ride out side the so-called regulated markets, is actually at this time 1.5 Quadrillion dollars. Been about that since 2009.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/freeze-the-1-5-quadrillion-derivatives-bubble-as-a-first-step-towards-world-economic-recovery/12947

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article21764.html

It is also the real reason Greece has been made to chew on itself and why Italy and Spain must suffer needlessly.

Yes, it is unlikely that the total derivative market could collapse - baring an alien invasion from space. But the point is it only needs to catch a cold and all the nations of the earth (except perhaps Iceland) will wake up and find that their ATM machines are on the blink, and that all their bank accounts are locked down. I doubt the cell phones will work for more than a few days after that point either.

The derivatives market just froze for a few weeks (really just a speed bump) in Dec. 2007 and the result was what we now call the Great Recession. Most people at the time were paying little to no attention. All the corporate news media were saying idiotic things back then, like "All eyes are on Wall Street!" As I recall the full amount of all the stock markets added together in 2007 was something really just chump change compared to the full derivatives market. It was a financial banking melt down, and stocks were actually doing ok for the most part. Wall Street had next to nothing to do with it. The GDP for the whole world in 2007-2008 was somewhere between 60 to 70 trillion per year. As I recall it would have taken the entire world about 22 years working night and day - eating NOTHING - paying for nothing else - not taking time to sleep - just to pay off the full derivatives market in 2009.

Of course the whole derivatives market will never completely fall. But it could burp again. It might even have a major seizure. If that happens you might want to cast any gold you have around the house into bullets. Because that's what you'd be needing most.

UK pull out of EU? Who cares? The Big Bankers know better.

[Gerald]

UK pull out of EU? Who cares? The Big Bankers know better If the UK leaves the EU, so it obviously affects people who live in the country, not just the banking system.

[Jimbuna]

UK pull out of EU? Who cares? The Big Bankers know better.

Lot of big bankers in London....currently the financial centre of europe.

[Skybird]

The EU now is a catch-22 for everybody. You are doomed if staying in, you are doomed if leaving. At least it will become pretty expensive and costly for the leaving economy. Question is whether it still is worth it.

I think it would be wporth it if several nations leave the EU - sufficiently many that the EU collapses. But iof the EU cadaver keeps on tumbling through history, it will just maximise costs for all - those who left, and those who stayed.

What is needed is a total collpase to get rid of the EU as it has reoriented itself since end of cold war. And then get ASAP a replacement that is just a alliance of cooperating and losely coordinated economies, like the old ECC originally was. It also needs to be founded by new personell, not the old criminal traitors that have brought us to where we are. The principles must be sober, the monitoring that they are vbeign followed without attemptred betrayal and lying must be merciless, and it must be clearl yunderstood that it is only about basics of the economies and letting the new alliance indeed speak with one voice on economic issues when dealing with the rest of the world - else Asia and others would simply eat up Europe, one by one.

Beyond that - nothing, please. No cultural Gleichschaltung. No dicatte of new wanted identity. No bureaucratic tyrannies telling European people how to live, what to think, how to become all the same, equal, conform, indifferent, non-diverse. Just a collaboration on certain basics of nation'S economies. Nothing more.

What also is needed, is something different: realising that if uneducated masses of simple ordinary people are allowed to influence political decisions, they will always fall for politicians promises and short-term briberies that will ruin a nation'S finances again sooner or later. If there is one thing we finally have to win clearity and understanding about, then it is the limits of democracy - and that the way the term so far has been understood necessarily will ruin our nations again and again by corrupting healthy acting and healthy state finances.

And no, I have no idea what to replace it with. All I know is that the old ways no longer work.

The understanding of democratic political system of the past decades we can no longer trust. It's no longer just the smallest of all evils. It simply is corrupt and dysfunctional.

we also need a new understanding - globally - on how manage a finance system. An interest-driven finance system imo always leads into a cataclysm sooner or later. Money is a tool, and should never become a trading object like any goods being exchanged. Interests simply should not be existent. And yes, I perfectly know that this puts pretty much all in doubt that our old ways are basing on.

Usually you do not risk to jump out of thew window in the third floor. Expect the whole building is in flames and all exits are burning hell and there is no escape. Then maybe it is wise to even consider jumping out of the window in third floor- before you burn to death.

[Penguin]

I can't see why the UK shouldn't be able to keep its economic ties with the EU in case they leave. An economic association without having to deal with the political nonsense from Brussels seems to work for other countries like Norway.

[Jimbuna]

I can't see why the UK shouldn't be able to keep its economic ties with the EU in case they leave. An economic association without having to deal with the political nonsense from Brussels seems to work for other countries like Norway.

Agreed :yep:

[Skybird]

An economy depending that much on trading virtual value (paper and banking stuff) instead of trading real value to collect its incomes like Britain, is no healthy economy. ;) That is what is slightly different with Norway...

Plus the EU would use any association and trade deals to attemnpt pressing Britain into embracing Eu rules again. They do it all the time in the southern periphery, dictating conditions by which they do business with individual Northafrican states (as long as it is not about oil).


London City lives by dreams of eternally delaying final payday. Have you guys learned nothing from 4 years of banking crisis? Virtual wealth is no replacement for real wealth. Paper is not the same like goods and gold. The cardhouse will collapse one day. And then Britain will be poor off, if it has not managed to restrengthen its real economy. When was the last time somebody has checked the British debt burden, compared to the GDP? The aggregated indebtedness at the end of last year equaled almost 500% of the GDP, by standardizing against he GDP making Britain the most indebted nation on this planet and by a huge margin! ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15820601

That is why there are economists rating Britain as one of the top risks for the European economy zone, and global business.

[geetrue]

EU=PU

There will always be an England

not too sure about the United Kingdom however

If UK goes I hope they take Ireland with them

default, default :arrgh!:

[soopaman2]

Operation Sea lion 2, incoming.

Except this time it will work...


Better fall in line, abandon that British Pound, and walk in jackbooted lockstep.

Or else.

Signed Angela Merkel.

Have a nice day.

[Skybird]

German Central Bank president Weidmann just made a good suggestion that I support, but that will make him many enemies in politics. He said that banks should be forbidden to finance national states. An end to state bonds.

What...? No more living on tick? No more infinite debt raising, debt reshuffling, debt-refinancing? Well, that is reasonable, and I think the same way. But in practice this has no chance to ever become true. Politicians will bury it immediately.

Soopaman, better hold Britain responsible for her economic policies and finances. Germany has not told thew Brits to make debts and more debts and more debts. Those criticising German all the time just demand that the "new debts to finance old debts" should be going on forever. Which is denial of reality, of course. BTW, Germany itself does the same already, although we have had a record tax collection - we still increase debts again.

So stop that blame game. Every nation is responsible for its own debt policies and rotten state finances and rotten political systems: Germany for it's own, and Britain for hers.

[Gerald]

:haha::haha::haha::har::har::har::har: :up: I could not resist, :O:

[Jimbuna]

German Central Bank president Weidmann just made a good suggestion that I support, but that will make him many enemies in politics. He said that banks should be forbidden to finance national states. An end to state bonds.

What...? No more living on tick? No more infinite debt raising, debt reshuffling, debt-refinancing? Well, that is reasonable, and I think the same way. But in practice this has no chance to ever become true. Politicians will bury it immediately.

Soopaman, better hold Britain responsible for her economic policies and finances. Germany has not told thew Brits to make debts and more debts and more debts. Those criticising German all the time just demand that the "new debts to finance old debts" should be going on forever. Which is denial of reality, of course. BTW, Germany itself does the same already, although we have had a record tax collection - we still increase debts again.

So stop that blame game. Every nation is responsible for its own debt policies and rotten state finances and rotten political systems: Germany for it's own, and Britain for hers.

Does Germany have much money left to bail out the Greeks again Sky?

I should imagine the German people are quite annoyed at what there money is being spent on atm.

[Skybird]

We have no money "left". ;) No nation has. ;) We all are drowning in debts, we trade debts and try to find relief from debts by making new debts, and we try to excuse this by saying that in order to reduce our debts we must make more debts and increase spendings. And thats why we have more and more debts, and all the risk and danger coming from that stockpiling high into the sky.


Formally, our debt load is 2.1 trillion. Including future pensions to be payed and obligations in the future deriving from conditions in the present, our debts are somewhere in the range of 6-9 trillion. Guarantees we have given for ECB policies and Euro-related polcies, are n ot included in that. We have just had a very high tax collection with huge income for the state - and still increased our total debts. Our economy finally seems to creep towards a 0% growth and then a recession.

Go figure.

We will loose a fortune if we bail out greece, and we will loose a fortune when we do not. We have allowed the gangster at the Bundestag to push things that way, and next year millions of Germans again will legitimise them in elections to continue with that. We do not deserve it any better, therefore.

Anyhow, Greece is not really that important anymore. What could really blow up Europe, and Germany, is France.

If you undersatand a bit German, read the latest link I set up in my Note fro germany thread, the interview with Sarrazin. The money that has been spend on Euro bailouts, is gone. It will not come back, it'S gone, completely. And with interstes no longer covering inflation, and being additionally taxed, we are in a phase of biggest devaluation and mass-expropriation since Weimar already. Heck, we even have had negative interest rates for bonds in Germany.

It'S all FUBAR. With britain, it is not any better, just different. The total debt however seems to be much higher there, twice as high almost than Japan. :huh:

[Jimbuna]

That's quite interesting yet worrying at the same time...I had no idea how bad it is in Germany.

Sadly, I don't speak or read any German...apart from a few naughty words :03:

[STEED]

Governments are fools they think they have the power, no they don't.

Not seen them yet? Watch & learn...

Money As Debt - Full Length Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

Money As Debt II: promises unleashed (FULL MOVIE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmbWBpnCNk

Money as Debt 3 - The Rothschild mafia (Paul Grignon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6uuAupT4AQ

[Kongo Otto]

The UK should leave asap! Nothing could be more worse then staying in the EU.
Thank God the UK never joined the Euro!
Go for independence UK and show them Brussels Bureaucrats a real good Middlefinger.
The UK survived many much more worse things including two World Wars, they will survive leaving the EU with ease!

[Jimbuna]

The UK should leave asap! Nothing could be more worse then staying in the EU.
Thank God the UK never joined the Euro!
Go for independence UK and show them Brussels Bureaucrats a real good Middlefinger.
The UK survived many much more worse things including two World Wars, they will survive leaving the EU with ease!

That's the spirit :)

[STEED]

The UK should leave asap! Nothing could be more worse then staying in the EU.
Thank God the UK never joined the Euro!
Go for independence UK and show them Brussels Bureaucrats a real good Middlefinger.
The UK survived many much more worse things including two World Wars, they will survive leaving the EU with ease!

I agree. :up:

These bleeping bleeps in power and they are all the same put the fear of death destruction of the UK into people and like dumb saps they are fall for it all the time, apart from some of us who can see what is going on.

[Skybird]

Around half of the British exports go into the EU. Leaving the EU at least will cause a stirr. And banking is the biggest single income generator to the UK, London is powerful, but when it comes to a showdown between London and any Euro/EU based fionacial market centre, Frankfurt for example, while there is a chance that the continent will lose that race, there is also a chance that London will lose it - and London has damn much at stake there, too. More than Germany or France or any single nation. Much at stake there.

The German stake in the Euro is being much lied about in Germany, in order to make people afraid of not having the Euro. But fact is that since the Euro was implemented a decade ago, German exports into Euro-countries are in constant decline and already have dropped by one sixth of their former pre-Euro value, with exports to EU-countries not having the Euro, and to the rest of the world as well, having grown and overcompensating these losses. The argument that Germany needs the Euro-market for its own economy, is a non-argument, or better: a political lie. The Euro-countries' share in German foreign trade has dropped from around 45% in 1999 to 35% in 2012.

[Jimbuna]

I agree. :up:

These bleeping bleeps in power and they are all the same put the fear of death destruction of the UK into people and like dumb saps they are fall for it all the time, apart from some of us who can see what is going on.

The news has been interesting since yesterday, what with all the political tantrums and trowing of dummies out of the pram :)