Time for an abortion topic?

[Tribesman]

It has been tempting for a while considering the number of nuts I have had knocking on the door since the six counties finally allowed abortion to be legal up there.
But now a local mess is hitting the international news too.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/vigils-demand-abortion-law-214075.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health-official-fears-there-could-be-other-cases-214078.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1114/demonstration-outside-leinster-house-over-abortion.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/15/ireland-medieval-abortion-law-savita

So given the failure of the "social conservatives" in the US Presidentials does anyone want to try and make a case for governments not allowing abortion?

[Hottentot]

does anyone want to try and make a case for governments not allowing abortion?

Think of the children.

What did I win?

[Onkel Neal]

I think abortion should be mandatory for the first three pregnancies.

[Karle94]

Time for an abortion topic?

Who have you knocked up now?

[Penguin]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.

[BossMark]

Who have you knocked up now?
Maybe got his girlfriend pregnant and his wife is a bit pissed off :haha:

[Catfish]

Maybe anyone discussing this should read John Irving's 'The cider house rules' :hmm2:

[Catfish]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.


Is nailing Jell'o to the wall productive ?

[Sailor Steve]

I find this thread highly offensive.


Mainly because I can't think of anything funny to say. :wah:

[Red Brow]

I believe it was some great writer 10 or so years ago in a public forum or speech. The gist was: it is inhumane to force animals to live in this universe. I have come to fully agree with this notion. But there is another way to sift the answer for this abortion issue - torpedoes! A kind of SH2, 3 , 4, and 5 way of finding the exalted answer to this issue. There were often women aboard those pretty little merchant ships. Some must have been fat with child (Or at least several weeks knocked up) - and how did the U-boat and American submarines deal with this difficult issue? Simple, they let the torpedoes sort it out. Let the torpedoes sort it all out.

Was that good enough Sailor Steve?

[Sailor Steve]

Was that good enough Sailor Steve?
Why ask me? I'm so far off topic I can't find my way back! :dead:

[Gerald]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited. :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Why ask me? I'm so far off topic I can't find my way back! :dead:

Well you know what they say...honesty is a virtue :03:

[Hottentot]

I wouldn't be so worried, guys. I'm still waiting for my prize and haven't seen a thing. I'm starting to think this whole thread is a ponzi scheme.

[AVGWarhawk]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.

Well, many people have gone blind as a result of masturbation. There are other benefits to prohibiting this activity.

[the_tyrant]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.

In that case, Dowly is the world's number one war criminal

[Jimbuna]

I wouldn't be so worried, guys. I'm still waiting for my prize and haven't seen a thing. I'm starting to think this whole thread is a ponzi scheme.

Simply send your bank account details and the prize money will be deposited :yep:

[Tribesman]

bump.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/archbishops-govt-decision-will-pave-way-for-intentional-killing-of-unborn-children-578353.html
Should that evil bastard be making any comments on legislation at all?

[Cybermat47]

I think abortion should be mandatory for the first three pregnancies.

Even if the person knowingly conceived the child, is over 20, and really, really wants to bring another life into the world? :hmmm:

In my opinion, abortions should only be considered if the child is going to have some deformity like Elaphantitis, or before the child's brain is developed enough to be considered alive.

[Cybermat47]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.

That would be insulting to many faiths, especially Christianity. The Bible does tell Christians to do whatever they do with their hands quickly and efficiently :yeah:

[Onkel Neal]

Even if the person knowingly conceived the child, is over 20, and really, really wants to bring another life into the world? :hmmm:

In my opinion, abortions should only be considered if the child is going to have some deformity like Elaphantitis, or before the child's brain is developed enough to be considered alive.

I was not serious.

[Cybermat47]

I was not serious.

DAMN MY STUPIDITY

[Platapus]

Abortion should be legal from birth until 17 years old. You get some teenager snotting off to you? Abort and start over. I think you would have a generation of very polite teenagers. :yep:

[Platapus]

Masturbation is murder of the unconceived life. It should be prohibited.

Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Does that mean I have to jerk him off too?

With respects to the late Rodney Dangerfield. :salute:

[em2nought]

Abortion should be legal from birth until 17 years old. You get some teenager snotting off to you? Abort and start over. I think you would have a generation of very polite teenagers. :yep:


This sounds outdated, until 25 years old might be more appropriate now. :D

[Jimbuna]

Eesh! :o

[Sailor Steve]

In my opinion, abortions should only be considered if the child is going to have some deformity like Elaphantitis, or before the child's brain is developed enough to be considered alive.
And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.

[Armistead]

And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.


Agreed! If men are against abortion then they should consider castration or at least get fixed...

[CaptainMattJ.]

within acceptable tolerances, absolutely the choice of the woman in question. Not some old ultra-conservative in washington, not the church, the woman's choice.

The only issue i see relavent is WHEN you should still be able to abort. 15-20 weeks is when the baby develops brain function, neural pathways, multiple internal organs, ect. Where's the cutoff point? What time is a fetus considered a human being?

I don't know. i'd say that by week 20 the fetus is pretty developed and shows signs of human behavior. It's also month 5, which takes some SERIOUS obliviousness to ignore the signs, though technically by week 12 you should've noticed that you aren't having any periods and possibly signs of pregnancy.

[Stealhead]

If you where meant to be here you will be if you where not you wont be that is the way I look at.

If god or what ever the creator is in a persons mind is so powerful then he/it/they if they had some being of importance
they would make that person exist.

Some people say put the kid up for adoption and many people are adopted but not all have a better life this way some adoptive parents
are horrible and have even killed the children they adopt or neglected them.

Signs of pregnancy vary from woman to woman and women have been pregnant and not known it until birth and not because they where half wits either.

[Cybermat47]

The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.

You have a point.

[Onkel Neal]

And that's the crux of the matter. It is only your opinion. And the opposite is only the opinion of the person who supports abortion. The only real argument possible is not the question of whether it's murder, or of when life begins, but of whose opinion counts most. The basis of current law is that, argue all you want for the rights of the unborn child, there is only one person whose opinion really counts. That person is not you, and it is not me, and it isn't the doctor who provides the service or the minister who opposes it. The only opinion that counts is that of the mother carrying the child.

What about the father?

[magic452]

What about the father?

When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.

Magic

[Tribesman]

What about the father?
What about the mother and the father and in this case the doctors?
The only problem in this story is the politicians who flatly refuse to do their job

[TarJak]

What about the mother and the father and in this case the doctors?
The only problem in this story is the politicians who flatly refuse to do their job

I think the father in this case may have a say in it:
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/3/04mar5-beer-gut-for-experts.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

What about the father?
He can try to talk her out of it, or into it, as the case may be. That's a personal issue, and needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. Actually, I think every case should be handled that way. But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept. Everyone wants to allow abortion or outlaw it, and we all have opinions, and I say again that within that framework there is only one opinion that should count.

When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.
Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.

[AVGWarhawk]

When you come down to it Neal the father doesn't have much in the way of "rights" at any point. The only "right" you get is the right to pay and if you do you may be able to visit the kid on weekends.

Magic

That about sums up the father end of it. :up:

[Armistead]

He can try to talk her out of it, or into it, as the case may be. That's a personal issue, and needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. Actually, I think every case should be handled that way. But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept. Everyone wants to allow abortion or outlaw it, and we all have opinions, and I say again that within that framework there is only one opinion that should count.


Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.


Honestly, I think the abortion question is settled in our country for good.
I don't see our nation getting more religious.

[Platapus]

Steve,

The issue is that while the man has little choice, often the man is obligated based on the decision of the mother.

If the mother decides to abort, it does not matter whether the father wanted the baby or not.

If the mother decides not to abort, it does not matter whether the father wanted the baby or not, the father still has to pay.

Women has the authority to make a decision and the man has no authority, even though the decision affects the man.

While I completely support the decision being based on the mother (her body), the law needs to recognize that this decision affects more than the mother/baby.

But then our laws have been biased in favour of women at the expense of men for quite a while.

[Sailor Steve]

Platapus, I know all that, and I agree with you, but as I said, that is actually a different issue. It has nothing to do with the question of whether a woman should be "allowed" to have an abortion. If women are prevented to have the procedure at all, the the question of the man's involvement or rights ceases to exist. If women can have one, then and only then do all the other issues come into play.

[Platapus]

I agree. :yep:

[Tribesman]

Also true, but a different topic. The abortion argument, no matter who is making it for which side, always comes down to the question of whether the expectant mother should be allowed to have one or not. The father's rights are important and should be discussed, but are not relevant to the central question.
The central question in this topic is the State.
As you noted here...But the question isn't one of individual cases; the question is abortion as a religious, moral and legal concept.

[Catfish]

Honestly, I think the abortion question is settled in our country for good.
I don't see our nation getting more religious.

Just of all in the US i see this theme anything else than settled. My opinion is the woman should have (and has) the last word, another personal opinion is that a fertilized egg is not a "person", but some say it (!] is.

Any of the parties is anxious to make a definite statement in any direction, just because they might lose votes.
Bible belt and Ku-Klux-Clan are voters, too

I hope common sense and the enlightenment of the last 20ieth century finds a way, but i am not optimistic. I mean don't they have a Creationism museum. Weirdoes exist the world over, but some really gather at certain areas.

Greetings,
Catfish


P.S. Again, Irving's "The cider house rules" is still a good book about this -

[gimpy117]

from a civil liberties stand point, why should the government be able to legislate what goes on inside one's body?

People get so worked up about gun control...don't take my guns yada yada, but we think it's okay to pass laws based upon religious standpoints that regulate what somebody's sperm, womb and ovaries ought to be doing?

in my opinion, what I do with my little swimmers inside of a woman is really my business and NOT anybody else's and ESPECIALLY not uncle sams

[Tribesman]

from a civil liberties stand point, why should the government be able to legislate what goes on inside one's body?

Because it is a medical issue and medical practice is covered by laws.

[Sailor Steve]

Because it is a medical issue and medical practice is covered by laws.
The question of whether a woman should be allowed to have an abortion or not, except in an individual case, is not a medical issue, and it's not for medical reasons that people have this argument or create and/or change that particular law.