Texas leaving!?!

[eddie]

Well, it looks like Texas has had enough. Election is over and they're leaving the Union!! Have sent a petition to the White House with enough signatures to have it reviewed! Along with 6 or 7 other states too!

It wasn't long ago when Russell Means made the announcement that the Souix Nation was seceding, and everyone thought he was crazy, and he was!! But this isn't much better either. Leaving the Union, yeah right.:88)

http://news.msn.com/politics/seven-states-qualify-for-secession-response-from-white-house-3

[Red October1984]

I don't know what to make of this. It's sad...

Hopefully it sends a message to our stupid government.

[Oberon]

Texas has been trying to secede before it was cool. :O:

[Madox58]

I will sell my house (That I just paid off) and move to the first State that bails from the craphouse!
:yeah:

[CaptainMattJ.]

I will sell my house (That I just paid off) and move to the first State that bails from the craphouse!
:yeah:
Good luck with that one. I'd love to see how fast things decline without federal revenue in these states, and then how fast they want to rejoin.

[Oberon]

Honestly though, 100,000 signatures out of a state that has 25,700,000 people in it, that's 0.003% of the population.

Louisana, Florida, North Carolina, Alabama, Georgia and Tennesse have a combined population of 54,252,834 (2011 approx), and although the article isn't clear about whether it was a combined collection of signatures from all six, or 30,000 each, I think we can easily say that it's a very low percentage, but for those who are still doubtful I will run the math:

Combined:
0.0006% (and I had to work that out on Google calculator because Win7s calculator took one look at it and laughed)

30k signatures each:
0.003%

That's a crazy low number, so honestly, expect this to generate as much concern for the White House as a child throwing a pebble at a tank.

Only in the wet dreams of idiots and radicals would states secede from the US, no matter how loud the crazies are that make it seem like civil war is an inevitable outcome. For every one crazy, there are at least 100,000 normal people who are, if not happy, then not radical about the current situation and are carrying on with their lives.

[Red October1984]

It's just the fact that people are considering secession that's sad.

If America will come to an end, it should be in one piece.

[Takeda Shingen]

People have been considering succession from the United States since the nation was formed. This is nothing new.

[mookiemookie]

It's just the fact that people are considering secession that's sad.


It's not "people" considering secession. It's a minority of a minority of extremists who are throwing a toddler foot-stomping tantrum over losing a fair and democratic election. This isn't about any message, it's about being a sore loser. Actually, scratch that. It's not about being a sore loser. It's about being a raving yubba-esque lunatic.

And Oberon - your numbers are overstating the actual number of Texas residents who have signed this petition. People from other states have signed it, also. So it's probably more like 0.0015% of the population.

[em2nought]

Good luck with that one. I'd love to see how fast things decline without federal revenue in these states, and then how fast they want to rejoin.

Maybe they'll ship all the malingerers back to the entity that created them. :D

[Feld Grau]

That's a crazy low number, so honestly, expect this to generate as much concern for the White House as a child throwing a pebble at a tank.

Only in the wet dreams of idiots and radicals would states secede from the US, no matter how loud the crazies are that make it seem like civil war is an inevitable outcome. For every one crazy, there are at least 100,000 normal people who are, if not happy, then not radical about the current situation and are carrying on with their lives.

Various sources are reporting the number of petitions for secession is around 700,000 throughout the entire country now. So,that comes out to be roughly 1 person for secession for every 450 not for secession.:hmmm:

http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981756922

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness… it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security" - Thomas Jefferson

Not saying I endorse what these people are calling for,but I sure as hell dont endorse how things presently are either.

[Madox58]

For every one crazy, there are at least 100,000 normal people who are, if not happy, then not radical about the current situation and are carrying on with their lives.

Crazy is ONLY determined by the majority of any given group.
What if the majority is wrong?
How can you determine who is actually the crazy people?
I'm pretty sure that when the 'Crazy people' in this part if the World decided to kick the king and his men out there was someone spouting the same nonsense.
Thier arses were booted down the road and our Country toughed it out to become a Super power.
That Super Power needs a mind shift or better yet? A boot up the arse to get back on track.

By the way Mate.
I'm not Crazy.
I'm mad as a Hatter!!
Get it right!

[Sailor Steve]

I'm pretty sure that when the 'Crazy people' in this part if the World decided to kick the king and his men out there was someone spouting the same nonsense.
Nobody "decided" to kick the King out. People protested and protested some more, but they didn't talk about leaving. When the Governors asked for troops people protested, but they didn't talk about leaving. When the legislatures argued with the Governors and the Governors disbanded the legislatures, the legislatures met in the pubs, but they didn't talk about leaving. The legislatures protested to the King and the King told them they'd take it and they'd like it, the protests got hot, but they still didn't talk about leaving. The King's soldiers opened fire on local militias (and the other way 'round) and they still didn't talk about leaving.

It wasn't until they'd been at war for almost a year that it finally sank in that there was no other choice at all that the states and finally the country as a whole finally said they'd had enough.

What would Texas really gain by this? What some people think is the right thing to do and what the people as a whole end up doing are not always the same thing. We'll see.

[Hottentot]

So wait, please explain to a dumb foreigner: suppose this succeeds. Texas is no more part of the United States? It becomes a what? An independent nation of Texas? And the international community is going recognize it just like that?

[gimpy117]

It's not "people" considering secession. It's a minority of a minority of extremists who are throwing a toddler foot-stomping tantrum over losing a fair and democratic election. This isn't about any message, it's about being a sore loser. Actually, scratch that. It's not about being a sore loser. It's about being a raving yubba-esque lunatic.

And Oberon - your numbers are overstating the actual number of Texas residents who have signed this petition. People from other states have signed it, also. So it's probably more like 0.0015% of the population.

Agree.

It's kinda funny how some people can't stand democracy when it doesn't go their way.

But then again coming from the party that likes to legislate on personal beliefs rather than legal ideas....

[Catfish]

If Texas leaves, maybe they form a union with .. Mexico ? :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

Good luck with that one. I'd love to see how fast things decline without federal revenue in these states, and then how fast they want to rejoin.

Actually, giving up federal revenues would be part of the plan, and perfectly fine. See, that's how we get the people who life on the dole to come visit you. :03: (permanently)

I don't see why the idea of a state leaving the Union is viewed with horror and hatred. What about the right of self-determination we're all so found of in the US?

[Penguin]

What would Texas really gain by this?

Their own Air Force (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HY0RFpRjVz8#t=68s) :smug:
(Spoiler warning for those who haven't seen the end of the show Jericho yet)

[Oberon]

The thing that I think gets to me the most is that you have a country, the United States of America, that has done so much with itself as a nation united under a common cause, the freedom and liberty of man. People complain about the gap between the rich and the poor, or about government intervention, or a welfare state, but honestly America has never had it so good. If you were to go back, three hundred, two hundred, even a hundred years ago, or back to the 1930s, the average person of America could only dream about the sort of things that the average American has now, welfare state or not. So many people have sacrificed their lives for a nation built up of differing ideas, of differing identities, that the idea of tearing that all down just because people don't like who won the election or their ideas for the future of the nation, it boggles my mind.
America has done so much because it's United, the only thing it managed to achieve whilst not united was to get 3% of its population killed.

[Oberon]

Their own Air Force (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HY0RFpRjVz8#t=68s) :smug:
(Spoiler warning for those who haven't seen the end of the show Jericho yet)

I loved that show. :yep: Robert Hawkins ftw! :up:

[Karle94]

So wait, please explain to a dumb foreigner: suppose this succeeds. Texas is no more part of the United States? It becomes a what? An independent nation of Texas? And the international community is going recognize it just like that?

Maybe they´ll go back to Mexico.

[Penguin]

I loved that show. :yep: Robert Hawkins ftw! :up:

:up:
As you're a man of taste a warning: do NOT watch "Revolution". I was bitterly disppointed, the show has a similar theme, however it was brutally mainstreamized. :shifty: - I'm not even touching things like logic, characters or acting talent....

[Oberon]

:up:
As you're a man of taste a warning: do NOT watch "Revolution". I was bitterly disppointed, the show has a similar theme, however it was brutally mainstreamized. :shifty: - I'm not even touching things like logic, characters or acting talent....

Daaaamn, I was hoping that would be good. :wah: The topic is good, a shame they had to break it.
You seen Falling Skies?

[Red October1984]

The thing that I think gets to me the most is that you have a country, the United States of America, that has done so much with itself as a nation united under a common cause, the freedom and liberty of man. People complain about the gap between the rich and the poor, or about government intervention, or a welfare state, but honestly America has never had it so good. If you were to go back, three hundred, two hundred, even a hundred years ago, or back to the 1930s, the average person of America could only dream about the sort of things that the average American has now, welfare state or not. So many people have sacrificed their lives for a nation built up of differing ideas, of differing identities, that the idea of tearing that all down just because people don't like who won the election or their ideas for the future of the nation, it boggles my mind.
America has done so much because it's United, the only thing it managed to achieve whilst not united was to get 3% of its population killed.


That's exactly how I see it. We're supposed to be United.

[Penguin]

Daaaamn, I was hoping that would be good. :wah: The topic is good, a shame they had to break it.
You seen Falling Skies?

Falling Skies had definitely its flaws but is waaay better than Revolution - you can compare the latter with the trainwreck that Terra Nova was. Really, it takes much effort to make crap when you have a cool topic. The problem is the effort to make it appeal to anyone. A least common denominator may result in a big audience, but I can't see how the writers can be happy, when everyone says 'meh' and nobody says 'yeah!'.

[Oberon]

Falling Skies had definitely its flaws but is waaay better than Revolution - you can compare the latter with the trainwreck that Terra Nova was. Really, it takes much effort to make crap when you have a cool topic. The problem is the effort to make it appeal to anyone. A least common denominator may result in a big audience, but I can't see how the writers can be happy, when everyone says 'meh' and nobody says 'yeah!'.

Yeah, Terra Nova had its moments, Stephen Lang was awesome, but then again he's good in most roles he's in. :yep: I found Terra Nova to be watchable, so I might just be able to get away with Revolution if I turn certain parts of my brain off. :yep:

[mookiemookie]

Actually, giving up federal revenues would be part of the plan, and perfectly fine. See, that's how we get the people who life on the dole to come visit you. :03: (permanently)Well just because Texas raises more than it receives in federal funds doesn't mean the loss of those funds could easily be replaced in the event of a secession.

I don't see why the idea of a state leaving the Union is viewed with horror and hatred. What about the right of self-determination we're all so found of in the US?

I absolutely view it with horror and hatred. One nation, indivisible. We're Texans but we're also Americans. That's not something I hold cheaply.

[Tribesman]

Well just because Texas raises more than it receives in federal funds doesn't mean the loss of those funds could easily be replaced in the event of a secession.

How much would independence destroy the texas role in the US import markets and domestic shipping

[GoldenRivet]

my thought process:

trillions in federal debt, the budget deficit widening constantly, the march into the abyss of a welfare state ongoing without an end in sight.

things just keep getting better and better for the USA

even a rat knows when to leave a sinking ship

but as the story points out: the petitions only have enough signatures to warrant review and response from the white house. It means little more than the white house will have to publicly acknowledge and respond.

[GoldenRivet]

Maybe they´ll go back to Mexico.

not alive we wont :shucks:


But considering the federal government has already abandoned us to what local illegals and spanish speaking radio openly calls "La Invasora" - we're pretty much already part of Mexico

[GoldenRivet]

The thing that I think gets to me the most is that you have a country, the United States of America, that has done so much with itself as a nation united under a common cause, the freedom and liberty of man. People complain about the gap between the rich and the poor, or about government intervention, or a welfare state, but honestly America has never had it so good. If you were to go back, three hundred, two hundred, even a hundred years ago, or back to the 1930s, the average person of America could only dream about the sort of things that the average American has now, welfare state or not. So many people have sacrificed their lives for a nation built up of differing ideas, of differing identities, that the idea of tearing that all down just because people don't like who won the election or their ideas for the future of the nation, it boggles my mind.
America has done so much because it's United, the only thing it managed to achieve whilst not united was to get 3% of its population killed.

in response i will just say that there can come a point in time when a split in ideology will contribute to a nations crumble. In this case the US has been 50-50 on the issues for a long long time.

so i refer you to one simple phrase

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

in this case of secession, the outcome of the election is not the chief issue, perhaps it is one of many?

as i pointed out in prior posts, the widening deficet, the crippling debt which will never be recovered from - ever. the ever increasing size and power of the federal government. the list goes on... personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.

[mookiemookie]

in response i will just say that there can come a point in time when a split in ideology will contribute to a nations crumble. In this case the US has been 50-50 on the issues for a long long time.

so i refer you to one simple phrase

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

in this case of secession, the outcome of the election is not the chief issue, perhaps it is one of many?

as i pointed out in prior posts, the widening deficet, the crippling debt which will never be recovered from - ever. the ever increasing size and power of the federal government. the list goes on... personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.

The secessionists love to throw around the Declaration of Independence like they're some latter day patriots.

They are not. They're cowards. They're cowards and extremists and worthy of all the contempt that any true patriot can muster. Treasonous, seditionist garbage always is.

The right got their ass kicked in a fair and square election. You're lying to yourself or others if you think it's about anything but that. President Romney would have been facing the exact same situation at this date. The election is what spurred this joke of a topic.

All of the tools of democracy have been given to the right wing. They have the ability and the right to make this country into whatever they want it to be. Their voice was heard. But they lost, just the same. But just because they got their ass kicked doesn't mean that they get to break up the nation.

It's "America: Love it or LEAVE it." Not "Love it or secede."

[Oberon]

in response i will just say that there can come a point in time when a split in ideology will contribute to a nations crumble. In this case the US has been 50-50 on the issues for a long long time.

so i refer you to one simple phrase

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

in this case of secession, the outcome of the election is not the chief issue, perhaps it is one of many?

as i pointed out in prior posts, the widening deficet, the crippling debt which will never be recovered from - ever. the ever increasing size and power of the federal government. the list goes on... personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.

That's as may be, but is succession really the answer? I can't see it doing anything other than setting back the progress of the United States by several decades and possibly resulting in another 3% of the population getting killed.

[Onkel Neal]

Well just because Texas raises more than it receives in federal funds doesn't mean the loss of those funds could easily be replaced in the event of a secession.



I absolutely view it with horror and hatred. One nation, indivisible. We're Texans but we're also Americans. That's not something I hold cheaply.

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.

[GoldenRivet]

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.

not where mookie is concerned...

if you dont agree with him apparently you're garbage and cowardly trash.

i dont really have an opinion of secessionist movement at this point, i dont think things have gotten that bad in our country yet, but the writing is on the wall. America is more and more a welfare state every day and those ALWAYS fail.

mookie can helm the ship all the way to the sea floor if he likes... but the life boats are there for a reason.

Any government should tremble before its people. period.

when this no longer happens the people need options.

to argue that no matter how bad it gets and how bad the division that secession is not an option - ever... is very closed minded. After all it is the entire concept that birthed this nation into existence

No nation has yet graced the face of the earth forever.

[Oberon]

If that is the prevailing feeling then it would dovetail into the popular theory of the end of America and the rise of Asia. One of those self-fulfilling prophecies I think, a fear of decay leads to decay and destruction.

Ultimately it's Americas decision, but it would be a terrible shame to see a nation that has had a great a history as America to destroy itself through civil war.

[mookiemookie]

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.

I see it as the other way around, and I guess that's why we have a difference of opinion. :salute:

not where mookie is concerned...

if you dont agree with him apparently you're garbage and cowardly trash.

Seditionists, traitors, and treasonists are indeed garbage and cowardly trash. That's why it's a crime eligible for the death penalty.

But nice try in trying to twist my words. I see you've gone to the August School of Debate.

[Hottentot]

America is more and more a welfare state every day and those ALWAYS fail.

Like Sweden, Finland and Norway, to name a few, have failed?

[Karle94]

Socialism may not always fail, but communism always does.

[Gerald]

Like Sweden, Finland and Norway, to name a few, have failed? In what way does not operate these countries,which you mention here, political or economic? :hmmm:

[Tribesman]

Like Sweden, Finland and Norway, to name a few, have failed?
Maybe he means Imperial Germany, after all those Crazy Kaiser Clans did fail.

[Hottentot]

In what way does not operate these countries,which you mention here, political or economic? :hmmm:

Read again the post I quoted. :03:

[Sailor Steve]

So wait, please explain to a dumb foreigner: suppose this succeeds. Texas is no more part of the United States? It becomes a what? An independent nation of Texas? And the international community is going recognize it just like that?
That's always the problem with any part of a country that declares itself independent. The United States couldn't have succeeded without recognition and help from France. The Confederate States failed partly because they couldn't get the much needed recognition from Britain, France and Russia. The modern situation with Texas is slightly different. If Texas as a whole were to decide to seceed I doubt it would lead to war. More likely there would be extended negotiations with the United States and the US would have to be the first to accord official recognition, after which the rest of the world would have to follow.

I don't see why the idea of a state leaving the Union is viewed with horror and hatred. What about the right of self-determination we're all so found of in the US?
Nor do I, though I don't like to think about certain friends no longer being fellow countrymen. I wouldn't want to have to get a passport to come to another Houston Subsim meet.

personally i think most if not all of the gripes the states have are legitimate.
I agree. There has been talk of secession in Utah and Wyoming that I know of. Just talk so far, nothing more. Nobody seriously expects anything to come of it.

It's okay to hold a different opinion, right? I'm a Texan first, American second.
Interesting concept, that. Back when I was a Christian I was a very serious one. Unlike the common right-wing version, I absolutely believed that my only allegiance was to a higher kingdom. America was just the place where God put me. Now that I'm more doubter than believer I still have that problem. Where should my allegiance lie? Certainly not to Utah, and if I ended up in Texas (which was a possibility for awhile) or back in California, I still wouldn't consider myself beholden to that State either; it would just be where I was. I don't see Jimbuna, Tarjak or even Skybird as any less special than myself, and that is incidental to the country they happen to live in. I consider Jim to be the best friend I have at the moment, and the fact that he's not American has nothing to do with it.

I support America because of the ideals upon which it was created, not because it's "My country 'tis of thee...". If those ideals are not being supported by the country, it should be changed, preferably from within being the first choice. It was during the Vietnam hippy days that the so-called patriots came up with the phrase Mookie quoted: "America - love it or leave it." The hippies came up with an answer that I took to heart even while I was still overseas fighting for "my" country: "America - change it or loose it."

Any government should tremble before its people. period.
And that is the embodiment of the American ideal. You only have freedom where the government fears the people. When the people fear the government you have tyranny, whether anybody (including the government itself) realizes it or not.

when this no longer happens the people need options.
As long as the people agree to look at all the options, and not just that one, then I agree.

to argue that no matter how bad it gets and how bad the division that secession is not an option - ever... is very closed minded.
Again I agree, but only so long as all the options are considered and discussed. That's the most important part - open discourse. The last secession was fueled by hotheads on both sides, each of whom wanted not just to go their separate ways but to humiliate the other side. That course never works.

After all it is the entire concept that birthed this nation into existence.
Again, don't forget that The Founders originally didn't want that separation, and did everything in their power to make things right with the home government, only declaring independence after the home government started waging actual war on them.

As I used to say back in the day, "Never forget that your Founding Fathers rebelled against their Rightful, God-Given Government." :sunny:

[Sailor Steve]

ISeditionists, traitors, and treasonists are indeed garbage and cowardly trash. That's why it's a crime eligible for the death penalty.
But discussion of any and all options, even serious discussion, is hardly treason. If it were the most of the people here would be sitting in cells waiting for Madame Guillotine to do her work.

[Hottentot]

The modern situation with Texas is slightly different. If Texas as a whole were to decide to seceed I doubt it would lead to war. More likely there would be extended negotiations with the United States and the US would have to be the first to accord official recognition, after which the rest of the world would have to follow.

Agreed. I don't see a war coming either, but neither do I believe that the rest of the nations are all just going to say: "Oh, you don't want to play with your former nation anymore? Cool, welcome to the playground." Especially in the case of the United States. Unless it collapses completely and suddenly, it will still hold enough influence to have the rest of the world first see this as an internal matter and wait how it turns out.

That, or its enemies are going to see it as an opportunity. But then, I don't see Texas suddenly joining up with China or Russia just because.

[Takeda Shingen]

If that is the prevailing feeling then it would dovetail into the popular theory of the end of America and the rise of Asia. One of those self-fulfilling prophecies I think, a fear of decay leads to decay and destruction.

It's not the prevailing feeling. The internet has the effect of amplifying sentiment to make it appear that it is more widespread than it is. Remember two weeks ago when Romney was absolutely, no question, hands down going to win that election?

We're going to see aftershocks like this for a little while. Despite prosestations to the contrary, the right is throwing a temper tanturm just like the left did in 2000. Things will calm down soon enough.

[Gerald]

Read again the post I quoted. :03: I have read it,and came to the conclusion that there is "some things" that have gone wrong, :)

[Hottentot]

I have read it,and came to the conclusion that there is "some things" that have gone wrong, :)

We'd be idiots not to criticize our respective countries when criticism is due, but to call welfare states automatic failures (and thus these countries "failed") is absurd.

[Gerald]

We'd be idiots not to criticize our respective countries when criticism is due, but to call welfare states automatic failures (and thus these countries "failed") is absurd. That's true :yep:

[Tribesman]

It's not the prevailing feeling. The internet has the effect of amplifying sentiment to make it appear that it is more widespread than it is. Remember two weeks ago when Romney was absolutely, no question, hands down going to win that election?

We're going to see aftershocks like this for a little while. Despite prosestations to the contrary, the right is throwing a temper tanturm just like the left did in 2000. Things will calm down soon enough.
Thats OK, the distraction of the run up to mid terms must be kicking in soon.

[Sailor Steve]

Unless it collapses completely and suddenly, it will still hold enough influence to have the rest of the world first see this as an internal matter and wait how it turns out.
As I said, the US itself would have to be the first to recognize the independence of Texas. My biggest worry is how that would affect the rest of the country. Back in 1812 several New England States discussed the possibility. It went nowhere, but it was serious.

But then, I don't see Texas suddenly joining up with China or Russia just because.
No. If Texas were to seceed it would be because they wanted true independence, not because they wanted to hook up with somebody even worse.

[geetrue]

(http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/14/should-texas-be-allowed-to-secede-from-the-union/?iref=allsearch)Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union? (http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/14/should-texas-be-allowed-to-secede-from-the-union/?iref=allsearch)By CNN's Jack Cafferty: Texas Gov. Rick Perry does not support a petition for the Lone Star State to secede from the union. But a lot of people do. The online petition asking the federal government to allow Texas to withdraw from the U.S. following... (http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/14/should-texas-be-allowed-to-secede-from-the-union/?iref=allsearch)

This a fringe move not an official move ...

If the state of Texas wanted to do this all they would have to do is vote with the elected officials they already have.

When Texas joined the union, (way before I was born lol) they reserved the right to split into five states if they so wanted to at a later date.

Texas is a republic in the same way that the USA is ... it's elcted official make these decisions and the people chose the officials.

[Jimbuna]

This a fringe move not an official move ...

If the state of Texas wanted to do this all they would have to do is vote with the elected officials they already have.

When Texas joined the union, (way before I was born lol) they reserved the right to split into five states if they so wanted to at a later date.

Texas is a republic in the same way that the USA is ... it's elcted official make these decisions and the people chose the officials.

All five individually would still be larger than the UK :o

[Onkel Neal]

Agreed. I don't see a war coming either, but neither do I believe that the rest of the nations are all just going to say: "Oh, you don't want to play with your former nation anymore? Cool, welcome to the playground." Especially in the case of the United States. Unless it collapses completely and suddenly, it will still hold enough influence to have the rest of the world first see this as an internal matter and wait how it turns out.



Yeah, there's not much chance Texas would/could really secede. First, you would have to get a large and clear majority of Texans to agree fervently for independence. And Texas is brimming with people who are recently from somewhere else. These new "Texans" are fine people, but they brought their own way of seeing things with them, from where the regions they vacated, and as hard as it is to believe, I know some of them think "let's leave State X and go to Texas because it has jobs/opportunity/cheap houses/lots of land/great bbq/ etc. but let's change Texas to be more like State X. :shifty: Right, thanks a lot. Texas, love it or leave :O: Don't change it.

And if we did agree for Independence, you would have to contend with the recent Mexican population wanting to take Texas back for themselves, as part of Mexico. And believe me, you talk to some (a lot) Mexicans, that's exactly what they have in mind. :dead:

But, if 80% of Texans wanted to break free of the US, the people in the US would have to agree, and even though many Americans don't have much good to say about us, they are not willing to let us go. Which makes no sense to me at all. If California wanted to split off, I would say more power to them, and wish them good luck.

Now, in 20 years, the way society is headed, there's a real chance Texas could secede, if Texans wanted to, and that would be to deploy a Ghandi/Martin Luther King strategy of peaceful resistance. I could see it happening under those conditions. Hey, 30 years ago who could imagine homosexuals publicly clamoring for the right of marriage, and most people supporting it? :88)

[Red Brow]

25,000 or even 400,000 isn't enough to do squat. This reminds me of all those "people's courts" set up in the early 90s by so-called patriots. They sold a lot of books and made a lot of noise - they threatened to arrest the big kahunas of The Powers That Be. Of course in the end only people of the 'people's court' ended up being arrested. Even if 400,000 people from 10 states signed up, what would you have? Less people than live in Colorado Springs.

[Sailor Steve]

When Texas joined the union, (way before I was born lol) they reserved the right to split into five states if they so wanted to at a later date.
True, but only up to a point. The Texas Resolution gave the United States the right to divide the area and create four more states, with the approval of Texas. Texas did not "reserve the right". They had the right to refuse to let the US divide them, but they did not have the right to divide themselves. It had to be mutual.

On another note, I find it funny that one of the complaints is over the National Debt. Part of Texas becoming a state in the first place had to do with the Federal Government absorbing Texas's huge debt, which was dragging the State under at the time.

[Onkel Neal]

That's correct.

Lol, lot of great articles about this popping up :)

Go ahead and secede, Texas. We dare you! (http://rimcountrygazette.blogspot.in/2012/11/go-ahead-and-secede-texas-we-dare-you.html) This from a guy in Arizona.

"In the last decade of the Great Recession, Texas has expanded by more than one million jobs, more than all other states combined," Smiley told me in an email. "And fully 95 percent of the country receives its oil and gas courtesy of pipelines that originate within Texas. That is what one might call leverage."

[Tribesman]

This from a guy in Arizona.

Thats good
Sound like a Texan secessionist's dream? Well, it's no dream. This country already exists. It's called the Democratic Republic of the Congo.:rotfl2:

[Oberon]

:haha: Nice twist at the end of that article Neal. :yep:

[Onkel Neal]

:haha: Nice twist at the end of that article Neal. :yep::up:

[mookiemookie]

Now, in 20 years, the way society is headed, there's a real chance Texas could secede, if Texans wanted to

The way the demographics are going? I hardly think so. Texas is going to be greater than 50% Hispanic in 20 years, and I don't think Hispanics are the one leading the secession charge. How do you say secede in Spanish anyways? :hmmm:

[Oberon]

How do you say secede in Spanish anyways? :hmmm:

Mañana.

[mookiemookie]

Mañana.

I had a Mexican guy once tell me "You white people are funny. You think when we say "mañana" it means "tomorrow." It really means "not now.""

[geetrue]

Mañana.

Thanks I always wondered how to spell that word, but I was too lazy to look it up.

As for Texas goes it will be mostly democrats by the time the next election happens anyway, which I thought t already was when I was growing up there in the 50's.

[Stealhead]

Mañana.

No a Mexican in Texas would be most unlikely to say this;

Texas debería separarse de los Estados Unidos de América.

Texas should secede from the United States of America.

Mookiemookies Mexican friend does not know proper Spanish grammar because Mañana does mean morning or tomorrow so he is a Mexican American or he did
poorly in school.I had lots of class mates that had Mexican parents but where born in the US fail Spanish class yet do very well in English.In slang mañana is a lazy way to say "not right now" but it is a bit disrespectful so the context of what is being said matters.

The whole secession idea does get people talking at least.

[Platapus]

I'm a Texan first, American second.

That attitude is so alien to me, I don't know how I feel about it. Initially sad I must say.

I am an American. It never occurred to me to claim any allegiance to a state.

Different people, different attitudes I guess.

[GoldenRivet]

Seditionists, traitors, and treasonists are indeed garbage and cowardly trash.

Your opinion

it's a crime eligible for the death penalty.

A fact

But nice try in trying to twist my words. I see you've gone to the August School of Debate.

See above, I twisted nothing

[geetrue]

That attitude is so alien to me, I don't know how I feel about it. Initially sad I must say.

I am an American. It never occurred to me to claim any allegiance to a state.

Different people, different attitudes I guess.

First of all one Texan is never special to another Texan we are all just one big bunch of crazy kind of peoples.

Just like submarine sailors we are never special to each other, because we all know what we have been through. It's non submarine sailors that think we are special.

Texas is first to a Texan, blame the movies, blame General Austin or General Sam Houston, blame the Alamo, blame President Bush heck blame anyone you want.

Texas is special, plus we had more presidents than any other state.

I'm sure someone will look that one up lol

[geetrue]

election results map for texas 2008 vs 2012 (blue is democrates/red is republican)

http://thepolitikalblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/texas-2008-presidential-election.png?w=450&h=476&h=476



http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Texas-vote-drift-map.jpg

[mookiemookie]

Mookiemookies Mexican friend does not know proper Spanish grammar because Mañana does mean morning or tomorrow so he is a Mexican American or he did
poorly in school.I had lots of class mates that had Mexican parents but where born in the US fail Spanish class yet do very well in English.In slang mañana is a lazy way to say "not right now" but it is a bit disrespectful so the context of what is being said matters.

Isnt that exactly what I said?
:06:

[Stealhead]

Not really.

You said that your friend said;"You think when we say "mañana" it means "tomorrow." It really means "not now."

I stated that Mañana has more than one meaning based on the context but only "tomorrow" is proper Spanish grammar.

[mookiemookie]

Not really.

You said that your friend said;"You think when we say "mañana" it means "tomorrow." It really means "not now."

I stated that Mañana has more than one meaning based on the context but only "tomorrow" is proper Spanish grammar.

Well that's what I was saying. White people only think of "mañana" in the literal sense, meaning "tomorrow". My Mexican friend was informing me that "mañana" also means "not now", hence him telling me, "You white people are funny. You think when we say "mañana" it means "tomorrow." It really means "not now.""

[Stealhead]

Well that's what I was saying. White people only think of "mañana" in the literal sense, meaning "tomorrow". My Mexican friend was informing me that "mañana" also means "not now", hence him telling me, "You white people are funny. You think when we say "mañana" it means "tomorrow." It really means "not now.""


Right but you did not type that the first time.You make that clear now but not originally which is why I did not say(or type) the same thing because you did not explain the context of your conversation with your Spanish speaking friend only exactly what he said.

[Onkel Neal]

Great, you just invalidated 10% of my knowledge of Spanish language. :wah:

[AVGWarhawk]

hence him telling me, "You white people are funny. You think when we say "mañana" it means "tomorrow." It really means "not now.""

So that's what the wife is saying when I jump in the sack for some quality time. :hmmm:

[Stealhead]

So that's what the wife is saying when I jump in the sack for some quality time. :hmmm:


At least she does not say "dormir en el couch!" (Sleep on the couch):03:

I used to use Spanish very little but my job over the past 5 or so years I encounter alot of Spanish speakers or people who can explain things better in Spanish so I have become fairly good with it.

It is so much easier to ask the Spanish speaking guy that works in the kitchen "what has x walk in cooler been doing" in Spanish and get his reply in Spanish because he knows the equipment better than the owner does.

[mookiemookie]

At least she does not say "dormir en el couch!" (Sleep on the couch):03:

"Duérmete." :know::up:

[razark]

election results map for texas 2008 vs 2012 (blue is democrates/red is republican)

http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Texas-vote-drift-map.jpg
How exactly does this one work? The way I read it, Dallas county is "less Democratic" because Obama won by a lower margin in 2012 than in 2008. But in 2008, he won 57.7% of the votes, and in 2012, he won 57.8%. The margin in 2008 was 15.4% of the votes, while in 2012, the margin was 15.6%. While not a major shift, it's not anything that could be called "less Democratic".

[mookiemookie]

How exactly does this one work? The way I read it, Dallas county is "less Democratic" because Obama won by a lower margin in 2012 than in 2008. But in 2008, he won 57.7% of the votes, and in 2012, he won 57.8%. The margin in 2008 was 15.4% of the votes, while in 2012, the margin was 15.6%. While not a major shift, it's not anything that could be called "less Democratic".

Shhh...those are facts and we don't need those when we're talking about politics.

[Armistead]

all nonsense.......:nope:

[Onkel Neal]

That attitude is so alien to me, I don't know how I feel about it. Initially sad I must say.

I am an American. It never occurred to me to claim any allegiance to a state.

Different people, different attitudes I guess.

Why in the world would that make you sad? It's not a bad outlook, just different from yours.

Come on, people, stop being so close minded. This is the age of equal rights, gay marriage, self-determination, free health care, and Kim Kardashian having her own news channel. Surely a man can love his state as much as the country it is being held captive to. Like Gov. Perry said in an article I wrote a few years ago, "Let the record show I have nothing personal against Americans," Perry added. "I just think they should stay in America, where they belong." (http://www.theonion.com/articles/texas-constructs-us-border-wall-to-keep-out-unwant,2728/#enlarge)

[Oberon]

Why in the world would that make you sad? It's not a bad outlook, just different from yours.

Come on, people, stop being so close minded. This is the age of equal rights, gay marriage, self-determination, free health care, and Kim Kardashian having her own news channel. Surely a man can love his state as much as the country it is being held captive to. Like Gov. Perry said in an article I wrote a few years ago, "Let the record show I have nothing personal against Americans," Perry added. "I just think they should stay in America, where they belong." (http://www.theonion.com/articles/texas-constructs-us-border-wall-to-keep-out-unwant,2728/#enlarge)

You wrote for the Onion? Nice! :haha:

[Sailor Steve]

Surely a man can love his state as much as the country it is being held captive to.
Considering that the original idea was to keep the individual States sovereign except for matters of interstate squabbling and foreign policy, I would think ou would be right. On the other hand they were possesed by the surety that it couldn't work if all the States didn't join, and that was the fear that drove Lincoln during the Civil War. Could the US survive without Texas? Most surely. Could Texas survive without the US? Maybe, maybe not. Is it their right to try? I don't know. People have been arguing about the right of secession ever since 1812.

[Buddahaid]

Well the Cowboys would have to leave Texas as they are America's team. Anyway we don't want them. :D