View Full Version : Questions about reading smoke directions
msumpsi
11-05-12, 04:31 PM
Hi, i have a question beause i do not understand the smoke directions that i see. I am trying be able to play with no map conctacts update. I can play without them once i have an idea of the tagets course, in order to manouver. The problem is that without that idea i cannot manouver to engage the target, speccially task forces or convoys, but to get that idea without being spotted and no maps updates i have to be able to read the smoke direction of the ships.
The problem is that they do not make any sense to me. I just saw a convoy and this is what i see: my tru bearing is 260º, i see the smokes of the ships at relative bearing 17º, wind speed is 10 m/s direction 339º, and i see the smoke directions from the ships to the sky at about 205º true bearing. Finally i can send a convoy report and i get the course 190º true bearing of the convoy. The are going almost to thiers smokes direction. It does not make any sense to me. Any ideas?
Webster
11-05-12, 07:02 PM
forget it
smoke (and IIRC flags as well) dont follow wind directions or ship speeds so they will never make any sense, they are just cosmetic decorations and you cant use them to determine anything
Caustic
11-05-12, 08:53 PM
Good idea for a mod but probably not possible due to game engine limitations.
Armistead
11-05-12, 11:38 PM
You won't learn much from smoke. As stated, smoke trails don't work with wind, but almost always they tilt or smoke backward, right or left. I can't recall that I've ever see smoke blowing forward, so about the best you can do is is determine a general direction.
If you want to have any success with contacts off, load TMO 2.5 that has the 3 -D radar mod included or you can load that mod separate. I think OTC also includes it. Once you learn how to use the radar, you can do fairly well plotting.
It also helps to come to a complete stop, real WW2 skippers often did this to determine direction.
I just saw a convoy and this is what i see: my tru bearing is 260º .... Any ideas?
I agree with Webster about the smoke. In any case you don't need to worry about it.
If I understand your example and your contact on the horizon is at 260 deg. true, all you have to do is wait a minute to observe it's movement:
If it is moving off to the North of you; 261 ... 262 deg., come to course 260 + 90 deg.
If it is moving off to the South, 259...258 deg., come to course 260 - 90 deg.
This is the Normal Approach Course. It will allow an interception with a minimum of speed. If you are on a NAC and you are gaining bearing on the target, you can reduce speed or continue and reach a point in front of the target on the track. If you are losing bearing, you cannot intercept at this speed and must increase speed to intercept.
As you get closer to the target, you can estimate the AOB, plot the target's course, and adjust your plans accordingly. It is important to understand that even with a distant contact which is barely visible and no ID, range, or AOB info, you can still begin your approach and close the distance to the target.
msumpsi
11-13-12, 04:50 PM
I agree with Webster about the smoke. In any case you don't need to worry about it.
If I understand your example and your contact on the horizon is at 260 deg. true, all you have to do is wait a minute to observe it's movement:
If it is moving off to the North of you; 261 ... 262 deg., come to course 260 + 90 deg.
If it is moving off to the South, 259...258 deg., come to course 260 - 90 deg.
This is the Normal Approach Course. It will allow an interception with a minimum of speed. If you are on a NAC and you are gaining bearing on the target, you can reduce speed or continue and reach a point in front of the target on the track. If you are losing bearing, you cannot intercept at this speed and must increase speed to intercept.
As you get closer to the target, you can estimate the AOB, plot the target's course, and adjust your plans accordingly. It is important to understand that even with a distant contact which is barely visible and no ID, range, or AOB info, you can still begin your approach and close the distance to the target.
It was a convoy, daytime excellent visibility. I do not want to close the target, i want to shadow the target, but with no information on course is difficult. Anyway I supposed is a matter of trial an error. The problem is that if i get closer i get spotted by the escorts. Thanks anaway, i thing is helpufull, learning to read any bit of information.
Targor Avelany
11-13-12, 05:07 PM
Four Bearing Method.
I believe it works on any version of SH
It was a convoy, daytime excellent visibility. I do not want to close the target, i want to shadow the target, but with no information on course is difficult.
Why not close and attack? As the range closes, you can plot the course and obtain data. If you spotted the target at long range (which you should have, in this case), you will have time to make a good plot. If an interception is impossible, you can always try an end-around after they pass out of sight.
msumpsi
11-16-12, 06:17 AM
[QUOTE=TorpX;1960677]
Why not close and attack? As the range closes, you can plot the course and obtain data. If you spotted the target at long range (which you should have, in this case), you will have time to make a good plot. If an interception is impossible, you can always try an end-around after they pass out of sign
Because i wanted to shadow until night time, no planes bothering and i can get closer without being detected. Escorts would spot me in the approach during daytime. Also is easy to get away letter, you can surface much closer to them so you do not have to wait for hours ay silent running until you surface. But i could hav tried.
Webster
11-16-12, 01:16 PM
this game cheats, the enemy can see and shoot just as good in total darkness as the daytime so dont expect light conditions to protect you
Armistead
11-16-12, 02:42 PM
this game cheats, the enemy can see and shoot just as good in total darkness as the daytime so dont expect light conditions to protect you
I don't agree, why the AI visual range may be the same for day and night, other factors such as light values effect night visuals. Not to mention many other factors that really don't change, certainly work to your advantage during night attacks, wake, sub position, etc. Also your env. settings have much effect depending on whatever one you use.
Well, I don't know if the game cheats or not, but it certainly has it's peculiarities. :)
msumpsi
11-22-12, 10:39 AM
this game cheats, the enemy can see and shoot just as good in total darkness as the daytime so dont expect light conditions to protect you
I can approach a marchant wwith good visibility at night to 3 or 4000 yards on the surface, at day time he will spot me at about 4 or 5 miles.
I think people have reported very different experiences in this regard due to different mod combinations.
Armistead
11-23-12, 12:43 AM
I think people have reported very different experiences in this regard due to different mod combinations.
Mods do vary, but overall night visuals go way down. Much depends on the env. mod tweaked to the sensors. I do know when testing TMO 2.5 alone on a clear day you can be spotted about 5-6nm's, at night about 3-5000 yards depending on how careful you are and other factors. In fact, merchants don't see near as good, so if you can pull the escorts away and attack from another flank, I can get within 1500 yards.
With my tweaks, visuals remain the same during the dayas TMO, but with added moonlight, night visuals increase.
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