Ship lenght

[arnauld]

Hello comrades,

Do somebody have a list with the lenght of the ships, because i want to play SH4 100%. Without Ship lenght its not possible to calculate the AOB.

Thanks,Arnauld

[troopie]

Sorry arnauld, can't help with the list but am curious about your method for calculating AOB from ship length, what's the trick?:hmm2:

[Webster]

100% realism means you DONT know the length so use the rec manual and use the visuals to guestimate your firing solution and you will have great success.

the whole point of realism is the unknown and the error factor that gives you that realistic immersion

[Armistead]

Hello comrades,

Do somebody have a list with the lenght of the ships, because i want to play SH4 100%. Without Ship lenght its not possible to calculate the AOB.

Thanks,Arnauld

What's the length of the ship got to do with AOB?

[reaper7]

The ratio between ship length and ship height can be used to determine the sob by use of a simple formula.

[arnauld]

In the download section i found the "simplified manual targeting 100% realism" by hitman. To use this, you had to know the lenght of the ship.I seem if you know the kind of ship you should know the lenght,too, but the recognition manual in TMO 2.5 do have the height of the mast, but not the lenght of the ship.:hmmm:
Obviously Hitman have had it.

Greetings, Arnauld

[Armistead]

The ratio between ship length and ship height can be used to determine the sob by use of a simple formula.

I've heard of such a formula, but wasn't aware that it worked in game. I usually determine the ships course, it's course relative to your sub is a perfect AOB.

Course, it's an obvious typo, but to "determine the sob" has a nice ring..

Anyway, there was once a list of ship lengths someone made up.

[troopie]

I've heard of such a formula, but wasn't aware that it worked in game. I usually determine the ships course, it's course relative to your sub is a perfect AOB.

Course, it's an obvious typo, but to "determine the sob" has a nice ring..

Anyway, there was once a list of ship lengths someone made up.


Hmmm, this is the amazing thing about subsimming. Everyone's got so many ways of doing things, and even when you've been doing it for years you can still learn something as simple and obvious as this!

Armistead, that's brilliant! I never thought of doing that! I've had a quick play around with it and came up this off the top of my head:

sub heading + periscope bearing - 180 degrees - target ship heading = AOB, with positive being starboard and negetive being port.

Is that what you're using or is there a simpler formula?

It's so damned acurate I love it!:rock:

[BigWalleye]

Hmmm, this is the amazing thing about subsimming. Everyone's got so many ways of doing things, and even when you've been doing it for years you can still learn something as simple and obvious as this!

Armistead, that's brilliant! I never thought of doing that! I've had a quick play around with it and came up this off the top of my head:

sub bearing + periscope bearing - 180 degrees - target ship bearing = AOB, with positive being starboard and negetive being port.

Is that what you're using or is there a simpler formula?

It's so damned acurate I love it!:rock:

I think you mean sub heading and target ship heading rather than bearing and then your method should work. The trick is to determine target ship's heading. What's your method for doing that?

[troopie]

Yeah HEADING absolutely, whoops I better edit that. :oops:

To get target ship's heading for the test I used map contacts and placed a mark on the target, waited a minute or two then used the ruler and toolhelper and dragged from the mark to current position. (SH3)

[troopie]

Of course at 100% you would have to use your range measurements and plot it yourself but same method would work.

[razark]

sub heading + periscope bearing - 180 degrees - target ship heading = AOB, with positive being starboard and negetive being port.

Is that what you're using or is there a simpler formula?
With TMO and the TDC mod, you enter the target's heading directly. No converting, no math steps to mess up on. Simply plot two points, draw a line, measure with the protractor, and enter the course.

You could also draw the Target Course on the map, and measure the angle with the protractor.

[troopie]

You could also draw the Target Course on the map, and measure the angle with the protractor.


Ha ha, again, so obvious! cheers razark.


Apologies to Arnauld for highjacking your thread btw.

[CapnScurvy]

Hello comrades,

Do somebody have a list with the lenght of the ships, because i want to play SH4 100%. Without Ship lenght its not possible to calculate the AOB.

Thanks,Arnauld

Take a look at the Optical Targeting Correction (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181172) mod.

The ship lengths are listed in the Recognition Manual, measured to be accurate to what the view provides. The mod corrects a flaw with SH4 (and possibly the entire series of Silent Hunter games from UbiSoft) where the periscopes/TBT views aren't providing an accurate Field of View when measuring with the Telemeter Divisions of the scopes (the vertical and horizontal hash marks on the scope lens).

To be clear, there are 32 divisions on the scope lens, as it should be for the American periscope. These divisions represent "angular degrees" in distance, each division equals one angular degree in measurement. However, the FoV that the game provides is off when measured at any distance. To measure accurately, an object at 1000 yards distance should read with each Telemeter Division 17.5 yards, or rounded off to 52.5 feet. The truth is, the FoV of the stock game isn't 32 degrees wide, it's 36 degrees wide in SH4. AND, what makes things worse is that a player who uses the 1280x1024 resolution will have a stock game periscope FoV at 38 degrees wide.

The inaccuracy in the games FoV using an authentic 32 degree scope lens is apparent and should be clearly understood. You'll not be able to accurately judge measurements using the telemeter divisions until the Field of View is corrected for the periscope, for all possible resolution sizes a player uses. This inconsistency in resolution/aspect ratio becomes really apparent with the TBT/UZO views. They are off much worse than the periscope views. With each different resolution a player may choose (depending on his computer system) the TBT representation of the FoV changes like a person changes his socks! Each resolution has it's own viewable size through the TBT/UZO.

Sorry to be long winded on this, but to understand why the Telemeter Divisions aren't used in the stock game is due to these flaws in the games optics. Optical Targeting Correction corrects these issues, giving a player the ability to measure accurately for either range distance, or AoB calculation. Yes, measuring AoB was taught and done through the use of the Telemeter Divisions.

You might want to look at this "Handout" (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm) for understanding what tools were used to accomplish that goal. The "Torpedo Fire Control Manual" explains what a periscope FoV should be and how to judge range with it. It also explains how to check AoB when a range distance is estimated. The first several chapters provide definitions, and give an overall description of the "Fire Control Party" (no they aren't firefighters). Chapter 5 gets into the basics of the periscope and how to use it for calculating a firing solution. You'll notice the handout describes a tool called an Omnimeter that was used to help calculate range and figure AoB without using much math. The Omnimeter is also in the OTC mod.

[troopie]

Wow CapnScurvy, :o I've thus far (deliberately I think) avoided getting this far into it all, just because I really can't justify devoting so much time to a sim, but that document has really captured my imagination. Maybe the time has come to 'step up to the plate'.

Looks like I've got plenty of practice to catch up on!

[CapnScurvy]

Wow CapnScurvy, :o I've thus far (deliberately I think) avoided getting this far into it all, just because I really can't justify devoting so much time to a sim, but that document has really captured my imagination. Maybe the time has come to 'step up to the plate'.


Yes the "Torpedo Fire Control Manual" is very interesting. It gives good insite to what was required of the "Approach Officer" (usually the Captain or within the game....you), and the job at hand of making a good firing solution with the various aspects of the problem.

As you may notice regarding the "Fire Control Party", there are anywhere from 12 to 15 men involved. This brings up a potential problem in having a single player do all the necessary calculations and plotting that was done to make a sound firing solution. I'm one to believe in using the "pause" key when making the plot on the navigation map, or when calculating the range by using the Telemeter Divisions and working with the Omnimeter. After all this is a game, not real life, so take advantage of the game tools when you're trying to do the work of a dozen men.

Manual targeting is quite enjoyable as long as the game optics are corrected to measure a yard for a yard. Instead of the game providing wrong visual information, the true chance for error falls directly on your shoulders. In my opinion, that's how it should be.

[arnauld]

Thank you very much, CapnScurvy,
this is exactly, what i want.:yeah:
Today the training begins.

Good hunt, Arnauld

[CapnScurvy]

Thank you very much, CapnScurvy,
this is exactly, what i want.:yeah:
Today the training begins.

Good hunt, Arnauld

That's great!!

I see from one of your previous posts that you tried TMO 2.5. There's a version of Optical Targeting Correction specifically compatible for it found HERE (http://www.gamefront.com/files/21438544/1.5_Optical+Targeting+Correction+031312+for+TMO+2. 5.rar).

Although, this morning the GameFront site is having problems with it's server and the link does not take you to the intended download?! Sorry, but it's out of my control. :wah:

As you read the installation instructions, make sure you choose the correct resolution/aspect ratio mod to correct the visual screens your system uses. If your game runs in the aspect ratio of 4:3 then you only need the "main" OTC mod. If the aspect ratio is something different, then you will load the "main" OTC mod with the specific "aspect ratio" mod for your system following it.

[arnauld]

Hello CapnScurvy,

the download was ok, but there is a bug on the OTC-mod for TMO 2.5.
I started three campaigns in the asian fleet. Two patrols from Manila and one from Surabaya and in every patrol i lost the boat, because after surfacing the oxygen was not refreshed ,so my men suffocates.:wah:
My mods were:
TMO 2.5
1.5 OTC
OTC metric
I tried with different sub.types
I can calculate range and aob with Hitmans method, but without your OTC-mod i don´t have a ship lenght in the rec-manual.

With greetings, Arnauld

[BigWalleye]

Armauld,

I only encountered the "death by asphixiation" bug once, but I have seen posts here that suggest it is due to repeated use of Alt-Tab during a mission. That seems to be a best guess - from what I have seen, no one knows for sure what the cause is.

I have tried to avoid use of Alt-Tab, and, when I do, I first pause the sim at the Options menu. (Also a good idea to save the game while you're there! :)) I haven't had a repeat of the problem, which proves nothing, but is encouraging.

Pausing never seems to hurt!

[CapnScurvy]

Hello CapnScurvy,
the download was ok, but there is a bug on the OTC-mod for TMO 2.5.
I started three campaigns in the asian fleet. Two patrols from Manila and one from Surabaya and in every patrol i lost the boat, because after surfacing the oxygen was not refreshed ,so my men suffocates.:wah:
My mods were:
TMO 2.5
1.5 OTC
OTC metric
I tried with different sub.types
I can calculate range and aob with Hitmans method, but without your OTC-mod i don´t have a ship lenght in the rec-manual.


I've also encountered this problem, but it's not from the OTC mod. There seems to be a bug that has allowed the Co2 level to increase, but not correctly clear when the sub is surfaced. Players have had this occur with mods or without.

I only encountered the "death by asphixiation" bug once, but I have seen posts here that suggest it is due to repeated use of Alt-Tab during a mission. That seems to be a best guess - from what I have seen, no one knows for sure what the cause is.

I have tried to avoid use of Alt-Tab, and, when I do, I first pause the sim at the Options menu. (Also a good idea to save the game while you're there! :)) I haven't had a repeat of the problem, which proves nothing, but is encouraging.


I've seen the same posts regarding the Alt-Tab key functions but I don't think it has much to do with it. I say this simply because I NEVER use the Alt-Tab key to leave the game, yet the same Co2 problem has occurred to me.

This quote is from Hylander 1314 regarding the Co2 issue and it's remedy:

Also, if you do ALT + TAB out of the game submerged, it can cause the game to not recognize when you surface, to clear the CO2, and the only way to solve it, is to save the game, exit out, and restart the game, and don't ALT + TAB out of the game unless you have to.


Also, here's a thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1357072#post1357072) from 2010 discussing the same problem. OTC wasn't released then. Neither was TMO 2.5. So why this occurs is a mystery.

[BigWalleye]

Sorry I neglected to mention, Cap'n, but I don't use TMO. The "death by Gas" bug occurred for me in an RFB game, so it's definitely not related to TMO.

[arnauld]

@BigWalleye,@capnScurvy

thank you for the hints:up:. Works now!

Greetings, Arnauld

[BigWalleye]

Godspeed!

[Shkval]

sub heading + periscope bearing - 180 degrees - target ship heading = AOB, with positive being starboard and negetive being port.

Can this be applied to SH3? Well I used a calculator and I get strange numbers
My course 10 + periscope bearing 25 - 180 - target course 280 = -425 :o:o:o I had used three (10 minutes) bearings method to determine target course and I got 280, it was a nice solution with enough difference between bearings and attack disc to place myself at T course (010), so if if the target was at 25 degrees the AOB should be about 75?

[msumpsi]

Hello comrades,

Do somebody have a list with the lenght of the ships, because i want to play SH4 100%. Without Ship lenght its not possible to calculate the AOB.

Thanks,Arnauld
You can certainly use the lengh of the ship to calculate by means of simple trigonometry the angle on bow, but the TDC tells you the course of the ship. Input to range and bearing measures space in time and he will output to you the course of the ship. From the you can work in the Navmap to plot your in hand solution or just adjust its angle on bow and activate the GPS. nd the TDC will keep trrack of the angle on bow.

[Shkval]

The formula is wrong! After some digging around these pages I found the right one, AOB = 180 - Target course + (own sub course + periscope bearing) i.e True bearing to the target), if the true bearing is bigger than 360, subtract 360 from it.

[troopie]

The formula is wrong! After some digging around these pages I found the right one, AOB = 180 - Target course + (own sub course + periscope bearing) i.e True bearing to the target), if the true bearing is bigger than 360, subtract 360 from it.


Cheers mate, it was just a quick limited experiment I did to test the theory.:up:

[BuddyFromMoon]

Here you go buddy: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=201069
These are all of the lengths of every ship in SH4. I use those lenghts to calculate speed, but i belive they can also be used to calculate AOB ;)

Good hunting sailor! ;)